The spirit and roots of the Falklands in “Our Islands, Our History”
The Falkland Islands Government announced the completion of the booklet “Our Islands, Our History”. The booklet provides a succinct and accessible summary of the key aspects of the history of the Falkland Islands, and of the people whose determination and character have forged them to a democratic, prosperous and dynamic community.
It is a companion to the popular “Our Islands, Our Home” booklet which was released earlier in the year.
“Our Islands, Our History” is available as a free digital download on the Falkland Islands Government website at midday on Friday 21st December. Hard copies will be available in late January.
In a brief introduction Leona Roberts, Manager of the Falkland Islands Museum and National Trust explains the purpose of the booklet.
What are the Falkland Islands? Who are Falkland Islanders and what does it mean to be a citizen of our country? These are questions which Islanders are asked frequently but to which there are no quick answers.
Our history goes some way towards explaining what it is to be a Falkland Islander. It is a fairly short history. Settlement is relatively recent: it began in the eighteen century and has only been continuous from the early nineteenth century. Unlike the Spanish and Portuguese colonial empires, we never had an indigenous population, so we have no ancient monuments or romantic mythologies to define our identity as Islanders. Other people have spun their own myths around our history and this explains why there are so many misconceptions about who we are and about our right to call the Falklands our home.
The series of events which serve as the foundations upon which the Falkland Islands were built are what Our Islands, Our History aims to set out. Our history is one of long periods of tranquillity, punctuated by flurries of complex activity. The events of the 1760s and 1770s are involved but, with the help of the time line running throughout this publication, hopefully comprehensible. The period 1820 to 1833 is also complex and further complicated by the tendency to weave nationalist myths around the basic narrative.
Although not a heavyweight reference document, this book is intended to explain to the interested reader how our diverse community has matured, embracing influences from the many nations whose sailors visited these shores or who settled in the Islands, developing a cultural identity all of our own, but always maintaining a close kinship with Britain. This close affinity with Britain and loyalty to the Crown remains today – perhaps not entirely fashionable to the rest of the modern world but a genuine element of our national identity.
This book is not a history of the events of 1982 as plenty of these exist already. But we are eternally grateful to the British forces that liberated our Islands from a brief but painful Argentine occupation; their sacrifice returned our freedom and secured our future and will never be forgotten.
Falkland Islanders are more than just the product of a set of historical dates and events. There are families which can proudly declare up to nine generations born in these Islands and we are truly a distinct people in our own right - proud to be ‘Kelpers’, the nickname our ancestors adopted generations ago, taken from the rich forests of seaweed (kelp) which surround our shores.
What this book cannot describe is that intangible element that binds us so inextricably to this subtly beautiful land. To try to grasp this you should read this book’s companion volume – Our Islands, Our Home – or better yet, visit the Falklands and see for yourself...
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464 comments Feed
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The legal right to the islands also rests with the Falkland Islanders. After the signing of the 'Convention of Settlement' in 1850 Argentina never made another sovereignty claim until 1941. Sovereignty disputes are considered defunct if there is a gap of 50 years or more between claims.
www.barkeuropa.com/en/data/16-sail_voyage_tabel
Wouldn't some kind of electronic nonsense be easier to disseminate?
www.falklands.gov.fk/category/literature/
What ever happened in 1833, it's time to get over it, grow up and move on. Argentina isn't going to ever go back to it's 1833 border - even though it didn't exist at the time - it isn't going to return lands taken from Paraguay from the war of the triple alliance, or leave the lands taken from the indigenous population in Patagonia. Likewise, it's not going to get its hands on the Falklands.
Move on, nothing to see here....
It's better to spend your time laughing at them. They're pitiful and like animals sit around speaking spanish and stealing things.
@9
Actually, aren't you confusing your own compatriots there? It is the British who raped, pillaged, murdered, looted.
You should all be made to pay for your crimes.
Malen,
Between 1816 and the 1880s you invaded most of the Province of Buenos Aires, la Pampa, Patagonia, Tierra del Fuego - territories which were never Spanish except in deluded Spanish fantasies - killed or expelled large numbers of people and their authorities, usurped those places by the use of force.
Now get back to your kevlar body shield and your cat's pyss malbec.
The British learn? In schools? Sure is not reflected here.
The Spanish did the same, no doubt, I have never argued they did not. So did the French, Dutch, Portuguese, Germans, Belgians, and Italians. I would say you all should pay africa som 135 trillion dollars as it has been estimated and demanded for reparations from both slavery and the “race for Africa” which no less than 8 Western European execrable nations engaged in. Add Denmark for their oppression of Greenland.
Argentina engaged in no colonialism, we did not take other people to subjugate them. We engaged in simple and straightforward wars of expansions with our neighbors, be it Paraguay Formosa and Misiones, or Uruguay (Martin Garcia Island), or Brazil (to gain most control of Iguazu falls), or Chile (by taking advantage of their war in the north to take over their patagonian claims), or Britain (who claim Tierra del Fuego was ”theirs), or Bolivia (by forcing them to cede most of Jujuy to us). Once they were part of our territory, the people's in those areas were FULL members of the Argentine federation, as territories and then admitted as full provinces. A province is not a colony, it has representation in both legislative chambers, they get taxes returned, and the people are citizens.
You British schools are a laugh, I see.
You should all be made to pay for your crimes. ”
The descendants of British people who did those things are more likely to be people of countries that were once British colonies than to be people of the UK, just as the descendants of Spanish people who did the same things are more likely to be people of countries that were once Spanish colonies than to be people of Spain.
Wrong. You inherit the bad and the good of your past. You can't pick and choose.
Incidently, you're a spanish speaker. This means you're trying to steal things from people, you are a pathological liar and you are very very lazy. Short of waking your from your 4 hour lunch break to tell you that your revisionist history is incorrect, you colonised the Falklands in 1982. You colonised your first nations people before those times. Your whole country was founded on colonisation, regardless of the fact you discount the people your colonised as being people. You probably think they were animals, which is why you celebrate their murderers on your bank-notes.
I would carry on further but quite frankly you're a bore and you're incapable of understanding it because of a brain addled from birth.
EOM.
Nostro,
Argentina, they may not be colonies now, but Argentina was colonising those territories ie sending settlers before they were formally part of Argentina as Territories or Provinces.
You do understand what 'more likely' means, don't you. In the case of inheritance of Spanish evil deeds in what is now Argentina, the inheritance is more in Argentina than in Spain, but that doesn't mean there is no inheritance in Spain.
I will forgive you three for not undestanding the difference between a colony and a FEDERAL province/state. The British are monolingual, which also means they are monointellectual. Your descriptions of Argentina are laugably misguided and more importantly, irrelevant. It is Argentina that decides what our history is like, not you Brits or anyone else. You are inconsequential in this matter.
We were never a colonial nation, because we never kept any annexed territories or their people as 2nd rate inferiors in some suzerain arrangement, and that's they way it is. Expansionist? Of course, who would deny that.
Colonial? Incorrect. The constitution always has said anyone that sets foot in Argentina is argentine. Always has said that. The “conquered” natives immediately become citizens.
Who cares! MALVINAS ARGENTINAS!!
Finally what is written into your constitution about The falkland Islands.
Nope, IMMIGRANTS. Diffefent. Colonists are coerced or payed by their government to take other's land. Immigrants make their choice in FREEDOM in their home countries to go somewhere. The recepient country has nothing to do with their choice.
@29
Poorer but a far more tolerant and welcoming society. And with more freedoms than the islanders, they are not even a sovereign country.
ar.noticias.yahoo.com/haig-asustarlos-enojarlos-000000079.html
The truth hurts you to the core, this is why your mantra is so very typical. The islanders display honesty and resistance to your vile rhetoric. R crawl back under your rock.
So you like Greek Yoghurt @21 are throwing in the towel in front of the truth.
Argentina is morally superior to the UK. Always has been always will.
When you begin respecting other countries and cultures, then perhaps you will graduate.
Do you believe the shit that you write?
The Genocide in Soutn America was the Spanish not the “argentines”?
The Argentines (those who got independence from Spain) were doing what at the time?
You are now claiming that Mestevier wasn't murdered by his own Argentine crew and his wife raped in front of their children
The Argentines and their march through Patagonia was entirely peaceful right??
Their illegal invasion of the Falklands wasn't the Argentines either right?
@7
Stop being a pillock. No population was expelled in 1833, in fact only three civilians chose to leave,
Interesting ..history Argie style.
Jens Andermann has noted that the contemporary sources on that campaign indicate that it was a genocide by the Argentine government against the indigenous tribes.
Argentines decided how their history reads, not you.
Just posting something from a worldwide media source Nozzy. Maybe the CFK Gov't can ban it.
Which is why you people still believe the British Empire was a chivalrous spreading of benevolence, tea-drinking, and well all that other drivel you try to foist on the rest of the world (ps- no one buys it).
As for the Argentines deciding how their history reads. You didn't use your vast amounts of intellectual reserves to write that one my boy. Did you? Sure, you are responsible for your history but I'm not sure you're responsible for making sure it reads the way you want it to.
This information is there - on record - in YOUR nation - read it and then you will realise your Govt feeds you a load of tripe.
For your information one of the girls who stayed subsequently married one of the British settlers and their family and blood lives on in the Islands today - yes - South American Blood - that does not want Argentina here either.
The last of those original people who stayed on under the British died in 1865 and she is buried in Stanley Cemetery.
MWHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH.....
....AAAAAA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
ps-
@2
“Marvellous, through thick and thin, the legacy of the British Empire carries on.”
Oh I want to thank you for your comedy posts at... Well actually, every thing that you have posted on here. It's so funny, I laughed so much that a little bit of wee came out!!!!!!!!
You are comedy diamond, seriously, do you have a blog? If not, you should, you really should. How can you hide this sort of comedy gold from the rest of the world......?
All my workmates look forward to your next posting with eager anticipation, just to marvel at your deadpan humour.......... It's classic, it really is........ LOL
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWedTbuAtR4
Contrast that with your country's disgusting mental reprogramming of kids in school with the Official Peronist Government History of Argentina.
I'm not sure who the first part of your post was directed towards or what it means. Please try to calm down and re-post it in a form that makes sense if it was for me.
Anyway Nozzy, haven't we been over this whole argument with you several times? Didn't we establish that you're not of indigenous SA decent and therefore at some stage in your family's history you invaded and displaced a people or peoples?
I wouldn't worry, Tito The Clown Troll doesn't care / worry about a little thing called truth getting in the way of what he / she / it wants to say. oh no, no, no!! The truth is another thing that he / she /it is running from..............
I guess in the face of your atrocious history as a country, which I make you come to terms with, the only alternative to mass lemmicide is to laugh about it.
@45
You do know Argentina is the non-former English colony with by far the most “British” blood with the perhaps exception of Chile (depending how you define British which at the time was also Irish... Argentina being the home to more of a combined English/Welsh/Irish/Scottish migration than any other country in the world that does not speak English), and Argentina wants nothing to do with the UK. That' must hurt.
“...and Argentina wants nothing to do with the UK.”
Sorry Nozzy but what's your reference for this fact? You do only deal in facts after all?
of course, it was the British who invented slavery.........
Nothing to do with the African tribes leaders.
Nor the Romans, before Britain was part of the world.
Was Slavery part of the ROMAN empire? the good book called the bible says as much, and yet u blame the British?
Words fail me sometimes, but ur ignornance astounds me.
My personal sentiment is the reference.
@49
You established nothing but in your own mind. I have said a million times I am not a dirty European.
@48
Whatever you say. I will judge what you said based on how British children respond to my questions about the empire.
There you go again!!!!!!! Oh the blessed joy of laughter!!!!!!!! You are seriously comedy gold....... I'm glad that they didn't bar you along with all the other retards....sorry..... La Campora posters ( sorry again, same thing ). HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh you are a laff!! Really you are!!!!
What are your ethnic origins? It took you several days of ducking and diving before you answered this one last time. Do try to be a little quicker this time.
Seriously you write the biggest load of bollocks but on this occasion I whole heartedly agree with you,thats what we have been trying to tell you for goodness knows how long That Argentines Make Up There Own History To suit Them
Thank you for being honest it's much appreciated but we already knew what you confirmed. LOOOOOSER
I am argentine in ethnic origin. Don't you islanders always say you ain't British?
Why should we respect that when you don't respect how I see myself? (although as you know in my case, I do respect the fact you want your self-determination... which is more than I can say about many others here who want Argentina dominated)
@7 If that's what you believe, so be it. Next time, we'll rip your throats out through your arses. And then, we'll come for YOU. We should do the right thing and carpet argieland with argie intestines. So that argies can watch their guts fry and rot in the sun.
@12 Surely that shape in the argie dishrag is wrong? Shouldn't it be truly representative? A dogturd? A pigturd? An argie faggotturd?
@15 What's a brainless, argie, faggot dogturd doing here? Are we not agreed that it should be head-down in a cess-pit? In the near future, all argie, faggot dogturds will be ploughed under. I have volunteered for the ploughing. See you!
@18 Genocide!
@22 You have been tried and found guilty. The sentence is that your tongue should be cut out, your genitals should be cut off, you should be impaled on a 7 foot iron spike and you should then be quartered. I wonder at what point you will die?
@27 Nazi semantics.
@28 The crater of argieland.
@31 You can't ”immigrate“ to a ”country“ that doesn't exist. For its lies, argieland must die.
@34 Superior? At what point is a faggot ”superior“? Argie ”history“ is 200 years of murder, rape, theft and lies. Being profligate, 41 million war criminals deserve nothing but death.
@37 You think not? The rest of the world doesn't agree. But not to worry. Fortunately, exterminating argies will not be genocide. Won't be exterminating a ”people”. Just an implanted population of murderers. Think about it as execution. Justified and legal.
LOL
57
Come on folks. Don't let Nozzy get away without answering this question. What's his ethnic origin?
Look who is talking... the culture that invented the saying “Victory is written by the victors”.
That has always been the case you retard. Jesus Christ, Has someone else in your family got use of the brain tonight. Who else but the Victor would know what Victory is?
Are you basing your answer on the dazzling military Victories of the Argentine Armed Forces?
Tell me again, how many wars has Argentina won?
hahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha!!!!!!!
Clown
Now, be silent, the adults are talking..........
simple question, please try answering without defelction.
there's a good child.
No, they say they aint English. Falkland Islanders and British, but not English, even though they have English ancestry mixed with other ancestries, which thus created the Falklands ethnicity.
Let's put the question another way. What parts of Europe did your ancestors come from to contribute to your Argentine ethnicity
No guys, I think he / she /it has gone. You can always bet your bottom dollar that, when the going gets tough, Tito The Clown Troll will run away and hide.
Three official wars (vs Spain, vs Paraguay, vs Brazil), two unofficial conflicts (Anglo-French vs Argentine shipping conflict, British invasions) , and two other conflicts where no decisive victory was scored (Patagonian annexation vs Chile, and Antarctica).
Well done boy!!! Well done!! I can see you can use google as well as the next child.
Now, since you have found enough back bone not to run away when things start heating up a little, why not answer our friend Joe Bloggs at 57.....? Can you do that son?
I know you have always made it clear that you believe in our self-determination and through thick and thin you have stuck to that stance. A stance that I thank you for. You also know that I was the first to point this out to many other “pro-Falklands/ pro-British” posters when they started to put you in with the “Malvinas” posters and abuse you. But over time, like a lot of us, you let the trans-Atlantic abuses build up inside until you became quite a different person, in many ways, on here.
That aside, I ABSOLUTELY consider myself to be British. I am a Falkland Islander which means I am British. I am as aware as anyone how many mistakes the British made throughout history but I can't fix those mistakes. I didn't make them. I can't give the aborigines of Australia their land back, I can't undo the misery caused by slavery throughout the Caribbean and many other places, etc.
Just like you can't be held responsible for the many mistakes your country, Argentina has made.
The rest of the world has a difficult time determining what is the difference between British and English, that's not our fault, it is yours for making it so complicated. Don't expect the rest of the world to abide by your rules in this sense.
None of my ancestors came from Europe, all of their birth certificates that exist in our family clearly indicated birth within Argentina.
So in that case it sounds like they go back to the time when the land that is now know as Argentina was stolen from its indigenous owners. After all, that was happening at about the same time as our ancestors were settling in the Falklands and we all have our birth certificates dating back that far.
The whole world knows what British is, they know what English is, and Scottish, and Welsh.
Not our fault if your too stubborn to identify these places.
Face it, for some one who claims to be so far intellectually superior to all here, why do you find it do hard to understand the term Britain??
In large, more dynamic countries like Argentina, there is not as much veneration of “ancestors” as there could be in very small, isolated places like the Falklands.
Argentina was the 2nd most migrated nation in WORLD HISTORY. 7 million people came and stayed after independence (probably after another 2million came and went before that time, staying temporarily then leaving). Another 5 million were “flock” migrants that came for the harvest and went back home. Since the major immigration period another 4 million inmigrants 95% from South America have come in, the others from the far East.
Given all that, ancestry lines are not as “lapidary” in their certainty. The USA and Argentina are exceptions in the world in that regard, which is why ancestry has only recently become an important matter... before that, people came to these countries to FORGET where they had come from.
There was, just a moment ago, almost a moment of pure clarity. But the moment is now gone.... Tito The Clown Troll is again reverting to type. So you will now not a straight answer from him / her / it.
Reconnaissance map ordered by the Governor of the Malvinas Islands Felipe Ruiz Puente
www.loc.gov/resource/g9175.ct000320/
While it is true that the claims by arg. weren't continuous between those periods, it is also true that between 1884 and 1888, arg. suggested taking the dispute to an arbitration, which was rejected by the u. k., beside, in 1968, 1974 and 1980, the u. k. tried to find a negotiated solution for the sovereign dispute with arg. Respecting the soposed prior claim that the u. k. had, i must say that the discovery just gives a precarious tittle, which must be improved with a permanent occupation, and the u. k didn't start occupating the islands in a permanent way untill 1833. Beside, nobody can deny about the effective and permanent occupation by spain over the soledad island, in that case, the united provinces had right to occupy unless that island, after it declared it's independence. We must have enough intellectual honesty, in order to recognize that the case has strong and weak aspects for both nations. I have never believed in our offical history, thats' why i decided to investigate. On the other hand, it is also emphasized by many people here, about the genocided that the argentine state committed with the originary populations, when it occupied the patagonia, but you all ignore the fact that their claims and rights, are included our constitution, in fact, some lands were already restituted to them.
It's really comic how you guys can believe so fervently the crimes of the Spanish are nothing to do with you, but their loot is all yours.
Please take time to download/read the following.
www.britishempire.co.uk/maproom/falkland/gettingitright.ndf
Axel, spend time reading and absorbing this info., and please realise that the crews on British ships of all periods were avid writers and gatherers of facts
It is ridiculous not to dialogue to find a solution and all we win.
Indeed. I wonder what would happen if Britain itself abandoned the “Crown” and had an elected head of state??
Btw doesn't Gilbert House look like a bungalow. I imagine most of the Brits on the forum (maybe Argies too, I admit I don't know your architecture so well) has a friend or relative with a house that looks a bit like it =)
YES........BRasil and ARgentina
Spain's occupation was limited to Port Louis, which is only a small part of Soledad. And Spain did not relinquish any of its rights to the United Provinces when it left.
Joe, do you realise how fortunate you are, being allowed to choose between Falkland Islander and British? If you'd been a Patagonian Amerindian, you'd have been forced to be Argentine. The nationality responsible for the widespread murder and exploitation of your people. No alternatives. But a second-rate Argentine citizen in economic and educational terms.
Sorry to hear that your children are unwell. Try and have a good New Year. Wishing you and your family all the best
Peace and Love
from Nottingham, UK
Spain opened an embassy on the island in 1865. It recognised british sovereignty before it recognised argentine independence.
16 dab14763
They expelled some trespassers in a garrison, after warning Argentina against encroachments in 1829. By the people you mean the four people who voluntarily left. Of which two may have been Argentinean. Is there anymore myths you'd like me to dispel?
18 Nostrolldamus The 5th
Wasn't it the British i.e. Scotland that brought in the first modern version of a national compulsory system of education(Education Act of 1633).
Didn't they also have the earliest public library in England, is believed to be the London Guildhall; which was established in 1425.
How difficult will be it be for you to go whinging to the UN after March 2013. One by one, your so called friends are going to be telling you this year to accept reality and to stop living in the past and clinging to dreams that will never come true. Your country is in a horrendous mess, not just a matter of debt, but corruption, bad governance and hyper-inflation.
The only way you are going to get your clammy hands on those islands is to fight for them, but your military is nearly 50 years out of date and rusting. I wonder if Obama will be pleading with us not to humiliate you again.
That's a matter for you!
That would be a consulate, not an embassy. Embassies are opened in the capitals of sovereign states.
Terence Hill,
I do know the people weren't expelled.
Leona Roberts:
you history, is our history too.
www.loc.gov/resource/g5352c.lh000139/
Why don't you reflect on more recent history, when you left your teenage conscripts to starve and freeze to death in 1982 for weeks and weeks when you lost the war and it was left to the islanders and the British soldiers to feed and cloth them and keep them alive until you could be bothered to collect them.
What does that say about you as a people? Absoluely disgusting!
www.speroforum.com/a/KVLHHSNLGU18/70607-Argentine-veteran-of-Falklands-War-remembers-horrifying-antisemitism
Tell me again, how many wars has Argentina won?
hahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha!!!!!!!
Clown
Superclown,loser: We still have the regimental brtis flags,Victory over the pirates brits,1806/1807
AHAHAHAHAHAA british invaders,defeated at the Buenos Aires
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnijIboNkR0
AHAhahaah what loser are these brits,before they were fighting for India,Canada,etc,now a small useless island with useless people,helped with uncle sam,lost 300 dead,8 ship sunks,16 ships put out,800 wounded,500 suicides,defeated with WWII techno..ahahah what a clowns this brits..LOSERS!!
Ah. You mean: never mind the truth. Print the legend.
Yes he does seem to get flustered and go off the deep end. All his educated and eloquent use of English disappears as soon as he tries to state any facts or argue a point.
I was especially amused by his verbal gymnastics as he sought to differentiate between colonists and immigrants and colonial invasions and wars over territory.
Britain doesn't deny her history, hence the reason it is so easy to find all the dirty laundry.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQrSTkSJla8
The specificity of the Malvinas is that the United Kingdom occupied the islands by force in 1833, expelled the original population and did not allow their return, thus violating the territorial integrity of Argentina. Therefore, the possibility remains of the principle of self-determination, as its exercise by the islanders, cause the “disruption of the national unity and territorial integrity” of Argentina. In this regard it should be noted that Resolution 1514 (XV) “Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples” in the sixth paragraph states that “Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations. ”
In the Malvinas Question General Assembly of the United Nations included this doctrine - the principle of territorial integrity by referring to the interests and NOT the wishes of the population of the islands - in its resolution 2065 (XX), 1965, ratified by later resolutions 1973 (3160, XXVIII) 1976 (31/49), 1982 (37/9), 1983 (38/12), 1984 (39/6), 1985 (40/21), 1986 (41 / 40), 1987 (42/19) and 1988 (43/25). They all declare the existence of a sovereignty dispute and reaffirm resolution 2065 (XX) Parties (Argentina and the UK) “to proceed without delay with the negotiations recommended by the Special Committee on the situation, in order to find a peaceful solution to the problem, with due regard to the provisions and objectives of the UN Charter and Resolution 1514, and the interests of the people of the Malvinas Islands. ”
Since 2004 and under a process of revitalization of the General Assembly, the Argentine government that the Malvinas Islands Question permanently on the agenda and in the paper by the Bureau of the General Assembly.
''The British are monolingual, which also means they are monointellectual.''
Wrong answer, lose five points.
I'm sure the Welsh speakers, Manx speakers, Celtic speakers etc will disagree with you.
and for all the Malvinistas. If your claim upon the Falkland Islands is so convincing, then why have your Government not taken this to the ICJ?
It never cease to amaze me that people like you can be told the truth again and again and again and then you believe that we will be as gullible as you in being told what to believe.
Self determination does indeed apply to the Falkland Islands. You can quote all the resolutions you want, but I quote the UN Charter which prevails over all other agreements or resolutions:
Chapter 1, Article 1, part 2 “respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples”.
The UN has NEVER EVER renounced this right.
Also, please list every inhabitant that was “expelled” in 1833. Argentina can lie all it wants but historical documents proves this a lie. It does not help Argentina's case that it perpetuates lies and keeps getting proven wrong.
Also the existence of the Islands does not affect Argentina's “national unity and territorial integrity” anymore than the existence of Uruguay does. Argentina's territory is not torn asunder nor threatened by the Island's existence.
Paragraph 6 of GA Resolution 1514 cannot be used to justify territorial claims but to ensure acts of self-determination occur within the established boundaries of colonies, rather than within sub-national regions. Also, the use of the word 'attempt' signifies future action not used for territorial redress for past action. But this resolution is still subordinate to the UN Charter.
Even in your own words, you cannot ignore the interests of the Islanders. Why are their interests served being part of Argentina. They are not.
Just because the UN recognises that a dispute exists does not mean that it is on Argentina's side. Argentina can have this dispute discussed ad nauseam by the General Assembly or any committee it wants. That does not mean that Argentina is right.
You repeat facts but you don't even understand what they mean.
Strictly, the UN Charter issue is not a question of sovereignty, rather a question of removing colonial rule from the Islanders through the process of self-determination
Specifically both Argentina & Britain must support this change under UN treaty obligation; furthermore Argentina is obligated to support the British implementation of Article 73 via Resolution 1514 as Argentina voted for 1514 & is a UN Treaty signatory. In accordance with the Declaration the British government as the Administrating Country must develop self-government by transfer of all powers to the people of the Islands & the British government must report annually to the UN Special Committee on Decolonization who's terms of reference are defined in resolution 1654 as to examine the application of the Declaration, to make suggestions & recommendations on the progress & extent of the implementation of the Declaration, & to report to the General Assembly
With respect to the question of territorial integrity, the effect of the UN Charter is not retrospective & does not apply to disputes before 24 October 1945 thus in terms of the UN treaty resolution 1514 applies to British interests since Great Britain exercised sovereignty on the Falkland Islands/Malvinas at its inception thus Britain could object that the self-determination of the Islanders would disrupt British territorial integrity & national unity
The existence of a sovereignty dispute was noted in resolution 2065 & both Argentine & British governments were invited to find a peaceful solution by the UN General Assembly; Argentina chose war in 1982 & resolutions 1514/2065 have remained unresolved because of this
its applies to every person on the planet whos country has joined the UN
I dont blame you for your incorrectness and ignorance you our mutual history, i blame your present and past government for there continued Brain Washing of young children
Telling children something is there's when it is obviously not despicable. only in Argentina lol
Raul, thank goodness you've got here. I'd almost forgotten the long list of UN resolutions violated by Argentina in 1982 and since.
I know it may come as a shock to you to learn this, but the UN has NEVER supported the Argentine claim to the Falklands. All it has ever supported, unlike Argentina itself, is a peaceful resolution to the dispute.
Meanwhile, Argentine attempts to introduce the question of sovereignity into UN resolutions, and to limit the principle of self-determination have all been voted down, despite the support you have managed to obtain from such beacons of enlightenment as Iran, North Korea, Belarus and the various other kleptocracies and dictatorships which have rallied to your flag.
I wonder why that is?
“The principle of self-determination does not apply to the Question of the Malvinas Islands”
Nice to see you getting it wrong along with all the rest of the Argentine posters!!!! wow!! you guys really do stick together don't ya??
Just to let you know, because, by that statement, you have not been keeping up with current events........... Self - determination is the corner stone of the UN, it's one of the building blocks, to be in the UN means to recognise this, and who has made a big song and dance about being part of the Security Council this year??????? Argentina!!!!!
You would do well to read what Domingo has said at 120 and what Tabutos has said at 121 before you dig yourself any deeper.
Go check the true history of the Falklands : www.falklandhistory.org/
If you keep believeing in Argentine government facts perhaps you also believe in INDEC's inflation statistics? - the bery reason that IMF Red Card is coming!
Perhaps sometimes you actually stop and think 'why is Argentina down in 102nd place in the World's Corrupt Nations Index?' cpi.transparency.org/
and
'Why are the American's seizing our ships/property?' www.atfa.org/
The right to self determination under the UN Charter DOES apply to the Falkland Islanders - Ban Ki-Moon confirmed this last month. LOL.
en.mercopress.com/2012/11/12/ban-ki-moon-and-colonialism-people-should-be-able-to-decide-their-own-future
Everyone happy??? Good, right, onward then!!
Do you really think that Manchester City have a shot at the title this year? Or do you think that that United will win......again ( yawn )???
The rest of the monolingual = monointellectual bollox is just that, utter bollox.
en.mercopress.com/2012/11/12/ban-ki-moon-and-colonialism-people-should-be-able-to-decide-their-own-future
To be honest, I doubt he is Argentine. The way he behaves is nothing like any Argentine I know, the way he speaks is not Argentine, his references are not Argentine.
My honest guess is that he's from somewhere in asia where they desire english skills above all other things. He's simply using this as some kind of english club.
Sad sad theme, built on falsehoods fed to your nation!
This is the kind of tune we brits go for...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOagvfp5oIk
It is truthful to its core and shows our spirit.. stiff upper lip what what!
Does anyone know what Brasileiro is on about ?
What has the film of Last of the Mohicans got to do with anything here.
#108
Thank you for correcting out twisted view of the Falklands war.
In the intervening years we had forgotten it was a major triumph for your country. You gave us a good hard kicking and graciously allowed us stop fighting before we were annihilated by your heroic forces.
You even forced us to pay the fares of your victorious army back to Argentina.
I feel totally humble in the presence of such nobility and greatness.
Your rousing songs and videos of your successful war put us to shame - we have nothing to compare with them.
Your heart must be swelling with pride when you think of your countries achievements in military matters.
To mount an invasion against a small, virtually undefended group of islands must rank level with the D-Day landings, etc, etc.
Excellent your link!!
It really is very good and strengthens us in this fight for the recovery of our Malvinas Islands, South Georgia and South Sandwich.
Never forget that this claim is supported by all Latin American nations and the rest of the world who have suffered racism, colonialism and imperialism English.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzWLQmSaw_c
Néstor and Cristina Kirchner has restored dignity and pride of being Argentine and Latin American to always consider how well our constitution defends our rights in the Decolonization Committee of the United Nations in the speech of June 14, 2012 compared to the English aggression.
“La Nacion Argentina ratifies its legitimate and sovereignty over the Falkland Islands, South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands and the corresponding maritime and insular areas, being part of the national territory. Recovery of said territories and the full exercise of sovereignty , respecting the way of life of their inhabitants and according to the principles of international law are a permanent and unwavering goal of the Argentine people. ”
CONSTITUTION ARGENTINA, Prime transitional provision
Face1354@hotmail.com
Fantastic response to the childish Malvinero.
He constantly replays the Falklands war with his airfix toys, in his mummy's basement, and also in between cracking one off, where their “heroes” win.
Well done you.
I was on a visit to Washington D C recently and, trust me, CFKC has done nothing to make your country anything but a laughing stock.
I don't know what the hell Brasileiro and one or two others are on but I see in my absence they urged me to become part of America and ditch England/ Britain. Strange.
Also I note that Nozzy didn't admit his ethnic origin and you all gave him a bit of stick over that. Well done.
We haven't heard from our mysterious fake, the great naval commander RN retired for a while. He had his pathetic little dig at the front cover of the booklet and then disappeared; presumably back to the Admiralty for a high-level mission of some kind. And speaking of the great naval commander, where is his shadow and la Campora chum, Think?
Still useles brits,you lost 300 deads,and 800 wounded...For nothing LOSER! MALVINAS ARGENTINAS,down with the brits pirates prick! I hate anything british!The SCUM of the world!!2,6 million unemployed,1,1 trillion public debt...AHAHAHAHHA poor deluded useless pirates..
It could only have got worse if they'd have gathered around her and started spitting, jeering and pointing.
I've been hearing all about how bad it is in England and with everyone arriving back here in the last few weeks from the UK for their summer holidays I am guessing that's where our two got it from. Number 2 child got it exactly seven days before number 1 child. Last night was not a good night.
I hope you don't get it. Friends in Surrey told us about seeing a woman in the emergency stopping lane of the eastbound M25 leaning up against her car, holding her skirt up and in the pouring rain very clearly (for about 500 cars per minute to witness) suffering from the effects of norovirus. Gross! Poor person. We just finished reading that description and then heard child number 1 rushing into the loo. Oh what a night.
You can continue to repeat your governments PROPOGANDA it doesn't make true.
1) No territory was “usurped”
2) No civilians were forcibly evicted
3) No civilians were refused the right to return
4) Argentinas territorial integrity wasn't disrupted, firstly as the nearest territory under the UP was 1000 miles away, secondly Argentina didn't exist at the time.
5) the UN resolutions you continue to quote are firstly non-binding and secondly suggest both sides “talk” but bear in my the rights of the islanders and the principle of self determination.
So, Argentina can claim sovereignty all you like...it's complete bollocks.
Falklands are what the Islanders want them to be...which as of today is a British Overseas Territory. tomorrow they can choose Independence, full integration as a British state or even a state of the Argentine Republic.
For gods sake man, use some critical thinking on your own arguments and see their huge flaws.
Ah, commander! I didn't notice you there for a moment. Funny really because that in itself adds more to my theory that you are no doubt vertically challenged but that's another issue.
Anyway, where are my manners? Thanks so much for making the time from your no-doubt busy and critically important schedule to come on Mercopress. I trust all is quiet at the Admiralty. With someone of your ilk in control I'm sure the UK can sleep safely.
I was just wondering what progress, if any, you've managed to make with this whole Falklands nonsense. Have you sorted out that referendum question yet? Saved a damned embarrassment, have you? Quick phone call to our Governor? Or maybe you can go higher than that? BOT desk at FCO perhaps? Who knows, maybe even Downing St? A man of your calibre I mean.
BTW, I see you've found another person who is actually in agreement (ever-so-slightly) with something you say. We all know about Think and now you've made a little alliance with Nozzy. Quite ironic really. The only two people out of all the posters on Mercopress who have some slither of agreement with you but where it counts most- the Falklands- they both disagree with you.
Think thinks the islands belong to Argentina.
Nozzy thinks they belong to the Falkland Islanders
You think they belong to the UK and the Falkland Islanders should have no say in any of it.
Dear oh dear, some work to do there commander.
I'll let you get back to your mission now. Sorry for wasting your valuable time.
What principles of international law are you relying on? The last time I looked all the international law came down on the UK's side of the fence. So this should be very interesting. Of course there will be no response because its a complete fiction.
Dec 27th, 2012 - 09:22 am
.......
The best advice is not to waste any time on him”.
Waster
The guy when I was at Duntroon all those years ago was very short also. Are you sure it wasn't you? Have a Long Look through your records and double-check. Early 80s. Nobody liked him either so I just thought...
I see that the tranquilisers have worn off again.
By the way, how is it that weekend release working out for you at the funny farm?
Good advice for our guest from Australia too. I on the other hand am a bit more closely connected to all of this than Anglotino so excuse me if I continue sir.
Anyhow, you didn't answer my questions. Have you thwarted a global embarrassment and had the referendum question changed? Maybe you've had it stopped.
Are you over 5' 7”? Just curious.
No, No, No and Yes. 16 questions left.
I'll ask you as many questions as I like.
155
I don't know many Falkland Islanders who wish to be English but if you're not from the UK I'll forgive you for that error; it is surely confusing for somneone who hasn't been brought up in such a system. You'd be better to say we wish to be British. Which is good really because that is what we are.
That's quite undestandable then. It can be extremely confusing.
Don't worry too much about it matey. It's the season, this thing about “good will to all men” really confuses the La Campora posters.
They just don't know what else to do with all their built up hate and bile....... It must be hard for them at this time of year.
Cheers mate. I just like to make sure everyone realises that something smells beneath the posts of the commander.
Seasons Greetings to you my friend.
Only one problem with that statement: it isn't factual, or even close to it.
Other than that, well done, have a cookie.
It might be best never to represent yourself at court though..... ¬_¬
-------
Oh lookie, Mr Make-Believe DovoeOver is back.
HipHipHooray!
Does anybody else want to play Sock-Puppet Bingo?... pretty sure we're close to a full house now.
Even the Argentine Constitution recognises the rights of self determination:
“according to the principles of international law”.
Remember now UN Charter trumps any of those multiple resolutions you are so fond of quoting.
I hope I'm not being a time waster in pointing his out multiple times Raul (or Doveoverdover).
An Aussie I believe you indicated. It's nice to see you on here. Do you have some sort of connection (work, family or friends) with the Falklands or are you just interested? Also, how about your age? Let me see. Did you grow up with Sonny Hamond and his loveable friend or was it Plucka Duck and co? Or maybe you're younger than both but my guess is Plucka. Re-runs don't count.
@71 Just goes to prove the lack of intelligence of “the rest of the world”. How sorry I feel for your family. Could they not forge documents from a decent country? Problem solved now, though. Pigs don't need birth certificates.
@73 You mean, destroyed.
@75 What a shame. They could have chosen so many better places. Afghanistan, Belarus, Cambodia, Djibouti, Ghana, Haiti, Iran, Mongolia, so many alternatives.
@82 More pointless drivel. And the culprit? Alex_arse. Piss of back to playing with the kiddies in your school. But watch out for their parents. What you do is a crime, you know.
@84 Missile LatAm. Make our lives better!
@87 Another missile. Expense, expense, expense!
@89 Go for a swim. Don't forget to take an anvil.
@91 Crossed fingers. Going to get rid of you, ladyboy. Goodbye, Scatland.
@104 America? South America. Shite in a sieve.
@108 Stolen. Quelle surprise!
@114 You need a shrink. Badly!
@115 REPORTED. AGAIN! For wasting everyone's time with demonstrable lies. For repeating the same comment yet again. For argie propaganda. A further request for this “individual” to be banned.
@116 Shoot! Until there are no difficult neighbours.
@119, 120 Please don't encourage “the thing”. It doesn't even have the brain to vary the words. Have reported and requested a ban for “the thing”. Please do the same.
@121 Correction. It applies to every person on the planet.
@135 ”La Nacion(?) Argieland ratifies its overwhelming urge to be destroyed and for 97% (white) of its population to be reduced to radioactive dust.”
@140 That's 255 British servicemen and 3 Falklanders killed. 775 wounded. Can't even get that right. On the good side, 649 dead argies. 1,657 wounded, 11,313 prisoners............FOR NOTHING, LOSER! Who got kicked off OUR Islands? Argie LOSERS!
missing the point that appears to be a child cartoon in regards to the issue Argentina has with our Falklands.
Aimed at Children i find it sickening. if that is not Brainwashing i don't know what it is. Argentina is a messed up near fascist state. Full Stop.
And they still talk about Argentina's image in the UK as if anyone gave a damn about the UK's view of Argentina. Like they think it actually matters or something.
Nozzy, what's your ethnic origin?
@143 Did you go to sea? Are you here because turds float? The usual approach of a Brit to a turd is to beat it to death. Where do you hide?
@150 Dead turd sliding. Wow, you stink! Laxative required. Then we can flush you away!
You British live in a bubble where you think you are the best, and always on the right side of history, and have never fucked up. Of course anything I say will fit “your description”.
I make no worries about it. I live in the real world, not in the monolingual world you anglo-saxons dwell where all you read and listen is self-adulation, and preening.
I don't feel like bursting your bubble today, so I will generally refrain from posting current event links that show how disastrous your real condition as a country is.
Sorry to break this to you.
And thank you again,probrits,antiargentines..I LOVED your ignorance,stupidity,insult,and foremost your wasted time for the nonsense,idiotic lunacy...
Thanks again, for making me laugh...That is the reason uk is a DECADENT useless country...
And last but not least: MALVINAS ARGENTINAS! That is the future,useless criminals and pirates!
here on 3 ships last week and more due next week - thought this was NOT going to happen according to your masters?
Flight arrived on schedule yesterday from Chile - complete with official Chilean Govt Export Documents on the freight - addressed to
-The Govt of the Falkland Islands (U.K.) - happens every week.
If UK such a useless decadent country - why does your Defence Minister not launch another invasion? After all he is on public record stating clearly that it is only the Britsh forces here that prevent Argenina from taking the Islands.
:::blooop::: (INSIDE)
You are the best, you are.
:::bloop:::: (BACK OUTSIDE)
That's the fault of the educational system there, and not your own.
Have you noticed that your brainwashing childish cartoon on circles the Falklands in their make-believe propaganda to children.
Why have they not circled South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands in the “New Argentina”?
Is it because they don't even believe that portion of the doctrine themselves?
Seems that even propaganda to children is crap in Argentina.
'US may have accidentally helped to start Falklands war by encouraging Argentinians to invade islands, admits ex-CIA chief'
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2254755/US-accidentally-helped-start-Falklands-war-encouraging-Argentinians-invade-island-admits-ex-CIA-chief.html
'Ronan Fanning : Haughey's Brit bashing on Falklands cost us dear'
www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/ronan-fanning-haugheys-brit-bashing-on-falklands-cost-us-dear-3338705.html
'The ambassador who was a victim - Anthony Williams represented London in Buenos Aires and recommended that did not look to Argentina “as a banana republic”'
www.lanacion.com.ar/1541567-el-embajador-que-se-fue-como-victima
Read some of the comments in the last one, brilliant.
:::blooop::: (INSIDE)
I know. Like you are some sort of Gods or something
:::blooop::: (BACK OUTSIDE)
poor deluded oafs lol
However, some choose to remain in South America and wear brown shirts saluting statues of Nestor and Chavez.
At the beginning of the nineteenth century Buenos Aires was a colonial city of the Spanish Empire. British troops did attempt on two occasions to take Bs As because, at the time, a war between Britain and Spain was being conducted.
At both attempts the British troops were repulsed by the citizens of Bs As, not the Spanish colonial army. The lack of support of the Spanish army led eventually to the “primer grito de independence”.
We have the king of copying and pasting, RAUL who doesn't understand what he posts. He's been doing this for years and if he actually understood what he was posting he would edit it on the outcome of what Ban Ki Moon has said is the UN's stance.
We have Malv the poor boy who hasn't grasped English in the slightest with comments like; 'That is the reason uk is a DECADENT useless country...' Haha what a utter muppet, trying to be clever and failing as usual.
And we have good old Tobias in classical trolling mode. I thought you didn't enter these threads given your stance on them Tobias?
The facts are clear, the UN stands on the side of the people of the Falkland Islands and throw as much mud as you can at the UK, it's doing infinitely better than the failed state that is Argentina.
So all in all, nothing changes, noting will change and life goes on.
Back for your “Comedy Hour” I see.... Yes, yes, yes... I know, we can all write big words and make up for our woeful lack of interlect by using long words.... before you disappear up your own 'arris, there just a couple of things that you have got DEAD wrong:-
“You British live in a bubble where you think you are the best, and always on the right side of history, and have never fucked up”
Actually, here in British schools, we are taught ALL Britsih history, the good, and the bad. You see, unlike Argentine “Education” we don't brain wash our kids, we teach them history “As it stands” not “How we would like it to be” or “How our government tells us it is”
I live in the real world, not in the monolingual world you anglo-saxons dwell where all you read and listen is self-adulation, and preening.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
and what passes for “The real world” in your sad little corner of it then? Planet KFC??? No doubt you will not answer that one, just like you are not answering friend Joe Bloggs, no doubt you are about to play the “victim” card.........again.. Oh boo hoo, the whole world is against me, poor widdle me...... Or is this just something that “I don't discuss”?
Somewhat sad, really. I feel great pity for him and hope he finds something positive in his life soon. All that hatred is a cancer.
“with due regard to the provisions and objectives of the UN Charter and Resolution 1514,”
“Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples” in the sixth paragraph states that “Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations. ””
You need some help with this Raul.
The UN resolutions (as you show) do not state 'according to the 6th paragraph of the UN charter' but 'the provisions and objectives'of the UN charter.
That includes all of the provisions of the UN Charter, not just one paragraph.
“by referring to the interests and NOT the wishes of the population of the islands”
So as I have asked before, what do YOU consider to be the 'interests of the Falkland Islanders?'
In my opinion the best interests are for them to be associated with the UK, who allow them democracy, whereas Argentina want to colonise the islanders (as they have become the indigenous species and some are related to the civilians from Vernet's settlement asked to stay by the British in 1833).
But if in doubt, ask someone who was born on the Islands as they have more right to comment on' their interests' than you or I.
oh no..... He's funny!!! watching him work himself into a frenzy just because he is incapable of looking outside of his otherwise dull existance... seeing him grapple with the fact that, after all that, he IS wrong. His racist, xenophobic, misinformed, ill-judged view of the world is pure comedy genius. it is... it truely is.
Here a little fact for you, if you know it already then I'll say sorry for repeating it but it has a parallel here I think:-
When people “Escape” or leave North Korea, they spend two weeks in a facility in the south to be brought up to speed with what is REALLY going on in the world, so that when they leave and go out and about in the south, the shock doesn't kill them.
Now, I don't know about you but Tito The Clown Troll / Nostrolldamus The 5th / whatever he calls himself, would be a prime candidate for this process, wouldn't you say???
This is exhibit A of the British mind. They are a trully a society that's taken a detour.
So when are you going to answer the question that Joe Bloggs asked you?
Or are you going to ignore ( like always ) those difficult, troublesome questions???
P.S:- I can tell your getting all wound up, you start “Projecting” LOL
P.P.S :- When did I say that Argentina is North Korea??? Check your facts sweetheart, you've just f**ked yourself in public........AGAIN!!!
If I could PM you, I'd love to tell you all that.
Lest to say that I would love to pop over to the Falklands on my way to Colombia in July but won't have the time or money as I am returning to uni to study architecture.
Mind you, I always wanted to whistle with a gum leaf as a child.
But I answered question satisfactorily.
Just calm down everyone, all the animus against Argentina is eatiny away at your soul, and then at your brain.
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear!!!
More “projecting” I see. I loved that bit where you said I was “a lost, isolated soul” Like you said “You can't make this up”
So Tell me Tito, did you find it difficult to make friends at school?
Did you see your dad beating your mum up regularly?
Or did you see your mum beating your dad regularly?
Did a much loved family pet die when you were young?
If you'd just like to answer those, then we will get started.....
Over to you.
No wonder you all talk in such degrading terms about argies, and especially a female argie called CFK.
No doubt you were all completely stood up by some argentine girl at some point, since it is common for northerers to come here to look for some genetic aesthetic improvement given the bleak and plutonian landscape of female beauty in Europe, the USA, and the rest of Latin America.
Now that's a moment of clarity. Many things have become clear now.
That's the problem with this site; no PM facility. I'd give you my FB address but that would mean giving it to everyone and for practical reasons I can't do that.
An aboriginal politician in the 70's taught me how to whistle threw a gum leaf. Bloody hell, that brings back memories. I haven't thought about that in over 40 years at least.
We were in Australia earlier in the year but I forgot to try to show the kids how to do that. Number 2 child did have a go and get pretty good with a boomerang though. We rented a Holden Commodore and had a good look around.
Assuming you're from one of the big three states (geez, I've cocked up already if you're not), is it the one with the big pineapple, the big banana or the big worm? LOL! Australia loves its big things.
Ah Joe, There you are. Thought I'd missed you. Me and the family are going over to my mum's to see in the New Year over there. We won't be back until 02nd Jan 2013 so I would like to return the season's greetings and wish you and yours a Very Happy New Year.
I hope that all the little Joe Bloggs's get well soon
Peace and Love
From Nottingham
Melbourne born and bred though have done my share of working in London, Berlin and even Canada.
Love to chat more candidly, I've created a throw away email address:
anglotino311212@gmail.com
Currently at work (my luck) but will check it later.
Have a nice night seeing in 2013. It's been truly moving reading your posts and feeling the support and love. I hope all is well in Nottingham.
All seems to be improving in the Bloggs household but we have cancelled our New Year's celebrations. Not fair on anyone else to have us there.
Warmest regards
the Bloggs family.
No wonder you all talk in such degrading terms about argies, and especially a female argie called CFK.
None of us could give a rats arse about your dear lady Hitler Kirchner unfortunately to listen to some of the verbal diahrea that comes out of those botox lips reminds us of you,it's unfortunate that the botox queen wishes to live the dream of her thankfully dead husband Nazi Nestor,but as you do every time them lips part she makes an utter fool of her self it was wonderful to see when old Crissy was confronted by A REAL LAWYER at the G20 David Cameron where he cleaned her once and for all, there is plenty of footage that shows the old mutton dreased as lamb visably shaken muttering Spanish to a distingushed British Prime Minister it was wonderful to see her left standing with an old brown envolope absolutely wondeful you see nossy your dear lady is no match for a real diplomat she might be OK ranting on at uneducated Argentines but no match at the top table but that hopefully will be the end of old Crissy seeing that Aregentina hs dropped out ofthe G20.
Ah, so the big worm! Truly though, I love Melbourne and Victoria. It gets overlooked as a tourism destination but it's one of my favourites. I know Sydney Harbour and the Barrier Reef are hard to compete with but Melbourne is marvellous. The trams, St Kilda (Ackland St cakes!), the MCG, the Dandenongs, Puffing Billy, the Mornington Peninsula and the Yellow Peril, NOT!
Have they fixed that big ferris wheel in the city yet? It was just sitting there half undone when we were there.
I'll think about the email option but you'll understand if I don't take it up.
ARGENTINA ALWAYS THE VICTIM
Involved in more disputes and arguments around the world than any other country
I WONDER WHY
Yeah as they say, Sydney is a great place to visit, but Melbourne is a great place to live. Probably why it ranks so highly in liveability indices. The ferris wheel is still getting fixed, thankfully the near 50C heat that caused it to buckle has been repeated again. This summer is almost spring like.
The email address will stay there, create your own throw away one if you want to reply. It's a dream to actually get to the Falklands sometime. Your knowledge of Acland Street cakes speaks volumes about you. LOL
Those “reports” are about as accurate as reports about Cuba, North Korea, or Iran... about themselves. You see, you are no better than them in that regard... the rating agencies and publications based in your countries create “reports” that supposedly are objective but that's a bunch of shite. They are completely skewed to make themselves look good. No one believes them.
Diplomats from United States, Germany, Spain and Finland repeatedly expressed their concerns about the level of corruption in Argentina in recent years according to the contents of several Wikileaks cables published in the Buenos Aires media.
Even you former colonial masters seemed worried here
And we care about what the United States (uncivilized lunatics), Germany (goostepping barbarians), Spain (colonial plunderers), and Finland (troglodyte recluses) say because...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... AAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
“UK pays Falkland Islanders to remain in the Islands and not migrate to Argentina”
You could not make it up could you
is an interesting essay on Argenina's Malvania.
The interesting thiug about Gamerro's book- which heEnglish one. helped to translate- is that the original version is even more savage than the
Many anglos, caucasians, europeans and their descendents or whatever you want to call us have been to Cuba. Weve seen it first hand and many other corners of the world - unlike you. Weve seen the news of the masses in North Korean capital wailing the death of their dear leader or was that videoshopped? Iran finds an excuse to sack its one token female member of government etc etc etc . These are not stable healthy democracies. But you already knew that.
Get help poor chap.
And why do you think we hate you?
To be anti-American, anti-European is to be “evil” according to your politicians. We can only be “good” if you just truckle to your economic protectionism, and look the other way at your abuses, and war crimes.
You northerners are an increasingly pathetic bunch, really.
The interesting thiug about Gamerro's book- which heEnglish one. helped to translate- is that the original version is even more savage than the
Argentina is rigth and the pirates,uncivilized barbarian of the brits,that live in an island 14000 KM away,will come and kick out a peaceful Argentine population from MAlvinas,that posed no treat to uk,a country that signed a peace and commerce treaty with her...Just brits ; GO TO HELL.SOB,useless pirates,I wish you a very bad year for 2012!
We have no such thing as Bloody Sunday or Dunblane, or decades of internal terrorism.
Argentina 1 Gold 1 Silver 2 Bronze total 4 medals ranked 42nd
Great Britain 29 Gold 17 Silver 19 Bronze ranked .3rd
You must get Crissy and Maximo to stop pocketing your taxes and spend more on Sports development
Happy New Year you miserable piece of SHIT xxxxxx
I'm just getting started. The more I read, the more I hate anyone from Europe, and North America. You shall pay for your arrogance.
Yeah Sydney has reached its limits and NSW government policy is actively discouraging further land release and hence immigration; so prices are much higher and Melbourne is growing at twice the rate.
@223 Malvinero1
Still waiting on that listing of the “peaceful Argentine population” that was kicked off the islands in 1833. I don't think Mestivier found it so peaceful.
And I see the facade slips and that all Nostrolldamus' elocution goes out the window so very easily when the going gets slighty tough.
Why, I have found my life's work. At least I have it clear, who my enemy is.
Oh really? What about; 'Your Worst Enemy Could Be Your Best Friend & Your Best Friend Your Worst Enemy.'
Why is it that I immediately think of Austin Powers?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh7bYNAHXxw
I will do such things,—
What they are, yet I know not: but they shall be
The terrors of the earth.
Remember this one?:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jZiKFLL6MI&feature=fvwp&NR=1
My god! Its TTT and Mini-TTT, also known as Danny Berger.
How about “the most evil argentine is a saint, and the most harmless foreigner is your bane”?
So thats your explanation for your hatred? Even the worst Argentine is better than the Average, Innocent Foreigner?
Heres another one for you and Danny Berger:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1cRTW9AGVo
Hey Nos “I know guys on crack that make more sense than you”.
But seriously, hate less little dude. Hate is bad for the soul. I, for one, and there's others, don't hate you. We may believe you to be pathetic but that is not hate.
I love Argentina and Argentineans. I'm not even sure how it is possible to hate an entire race of people or an entire country.
Your language skills may be amazing but my God you can't debate or argue for sh!t.
How about this one?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEaKX9YYHiQ
I have always tried to get that point across. Why do you think I dismiss what any foreigner has to say about Argentina outright? And refuse to discuss with them internal affairs?
You have me wrong though? I don't hate your essence, I hate your extraneousness. In other words, I don't hate you for who you are, I hate you for not being from where I from AND for being from countries that want to see us ruined and conquered. Where this not the case, I would not hate you... I would not care about anything beyond Argentina's borders. Nothing beyond there that I can't find at home.
(only country in the world with virtually all the ecosystems, climates, and all over the country towns that are made from expats from dozens of nations... Necochea? Danish. Tres Arroyos? Dutch. Villa Belgrano? German. Bariloche? Swiss. Rafaela? Piedmontese. Villa Angela? Serbian. Obera? Ukranian. La Quiaca? Bolivian. Gaiman? Welsh. Lincoln? Irish. Venado Tuerto? Lombard. Concordia? Basque.
That's just as start... there are Lao communities in Corrientes, chinese in Once, Kosher Mcdonalds, muslims in La Rioja, French in Daireaux, Scandinavians in Misiones, Italians all over, anglo-argentines in greater BA, catalans all over, etc, etc...
With all the climates, cultures, and regions... There is nothing the rest of the world has to offer.
Again I'am baffled by this nonsense. You act like the world is out to get you, but this is nothing more than weird paranoia based rubbish. The only reason why Argentina always seems to be threatened is because you lot keep pissing off the international community all the time. Refusing to pay your debt to certain countries, brining in countless trade restrictions that damage foreign and domestic industry, threatening the Falklands and other smaller neighbours daily etc, etc, etc. For every Action (Argentina), there is a Reaction (Rest of the world). Your country constantly lies and spits on other countries and their deals and business with you. And then you seem to think that you haven't done anything wrong. The whole Libertard incident was a prime example of that. For the vast bulk of Brits, your country would never register on our radar if it weren't for the Falklands.
I'm glad it would not register. Believe me I am.
There is not one country on this planet that really matters to Argentina. None are good or important enough.
Insert any other country if you wish not to put your own on the spot.
Except currency worth more than the paper it is printed on.
Baaahaha
And this in turn has resulted in Tobias's response. You have to ask, if you also lived in a failed country like Argentina and had this much criticism would you ever leave the forum or respond like Tobias?
Personally I'd leave given Argentina is so busy imploding the news headlines get worse on a day-by-day basis and there's really not much that can be done to defend them.
I'd probably also take the approach that energy should be expended in dethroning the crazy in power so Argentina can start to rebuild itself. It should be a great country but the process of rebuilding needs to start from ground up so it would take many years to see good strong progress that we all know is possible if Argentina is able to fix its mindset and political structure.
To err is human, to “arr” is pirate.
May I reciprocate your kind greeting
Your description of Argentina sounds like an ersatz form of Disneyland.
didnt happen, couldnt have done, Argentines arent colonialists.
its all made-up stories by the rest of the world.
Argentina isnt to blame.
I think Nostrodamaus is the most naive and indoctrinated person i've ever come across on the internet...and unrepresentative of the average Argentine by a very long way imo.
He has at least enough of a brain not to be a Malvinista, but the rest is pure cartoon Peronism.
I see not much has changed since before Xmas, most of the Argentine posters on here are still spouting the same old crap regarding the Falklands that has been disproved too many times to count.
Anyway, well done to the Falkland Islands Government for continuing to put the truth about their history out to the rest of the world, and showing Argentina's claims are based on outright lies and wishful thinking.
Just go to hell,useless pirate! HAve a very bad 2013!
“the brits,that live in an island 14000 KM away,will come and kick out a peaceful Argentine population from”
No, it was mostly Brits who were kicked out by the Brits, (80% of Pinedo's crew were British mercenaries) and 11 South American settlers were allowed to stay.(in fact it might have been 15-tell you what, you can look up the details for me-a nice exercise in proper referencing for you ).
Mind you, 2 out of the 22 settlerswere Brits, one Scot and One Irishman.
You still don't understand the irony of this do you?
But then I expect you are still reading the Argentine cartoon school books they indoctrinated you with, when you were 6.
As a greater intellect than you wrote the following, reflect on your hubris.
“No man is an island
Entire of its self
Each is a part of the continent
A part of the main..........................
Each man's death diminishes me
For I am involved in mankind
Therefore send not to know for whom the bell tolls
It tolls for thee.”
John Donne
And may all the Falklands Islanders have a good and prosperous new year, safe in the knowledge that they are in our thoughts and that we will never abandon them to modern colonialism from the likes of CFK and her cronies.
The truth and history stand firm against her delusions and those she has infected some of her population with.
In 2013 the one and only true population of the Falklands, the only people that can legitimately decided their own futures, will state their desires for any in the free world to take note, and be in no doubt that democracy and your proven rights to self-determination will triumph regardless.
have a good one! :-)
“Our Islands, Our History”: We took the islands at gun point. We write the Story (oops, I mean the History) we want.
What are the Falkland Islands? A bunch of islands in South America usurped by the UK at gun point.
Who are Falkland Islanders? British subjects implanted in argentine islands to maintain a colonial enclave.
What does it mean to be a citizen of our country? Puuffff. Means a lot of things. It means there´s a high probability that you´re not from the islands and that instead you come from elsewhere, but still consider yourself as a Falkland Islander with the right to self-determination. It means you´re paid lots of money to stay (your standard of living is way higher than UK´s average). It means you´re British and expect to enjoy your British right to self-determination in argentine islands far, far away from Britain. It also means you´d eventualy have to leave to study abroad and find someone to date (dating some one on the islands would be like dating your brother or sister). It means you´re worried about the existance of Falkland Islanders in the future, given the birth rate issues. I means you mean a lot to the UK (a great disguise where strategic British interests hide under). We could go on... but you get the picture.
Nothing has changed and nothing will change.
Since the Islands have NEVER been Argentine territory there is no problem.
Remember this: Republic of Argentine - 1853
Falkland Islands Community - 1820's
That means that the Falkland Islands Community existed BEFORE the Republic of Argentina did. No matter how you try to twist and distort the facts, the world can see you all for your lies, your colonial ambitions, and your greed.
As Elaine said. GET OVER IT. Start fixing your own country, which is falling down around your ears.
Even if you magically got the Islands tomorrow, your country would still be in deep sh!t. The Islands are NOT a magical solution to your problems, they just a DISTRACTION that your government waves around so you won't see how badly they've screwed your country up, and how they've STOLEN all of YOUR money.
But keep bitching on about the Islands, it gives us all a good laugh. A bit like Nero fiddling while Rome burns; Argentinians whine about a mythical set of Islands while your economy and country crumble around you.
Amusing, but quite pathetic too.
Nobody is 'paid lots of money to stay'. Nobody is 'implanted'.
I think you know this already and are just peddling lies for fun, but I just thought I'd point that out for anyone who doesn't know that.
Wages are the same or lower than the UK, and the cost of living is higher.
What the hell does 'implanted' mean anyway?
All non-natives in the Americas (ie 99% of the Argies).
Implanted means placed here. Most of the people living here were kidnapped from their homes by the UK military and transported down here. Paid peanuts and forced to live on all the little islands, mainly to the west of West Falkland. They have no passports, no money to get away with and no way of communicating with the outside world.
This is the prime example of the unrestrainted stupidity of the average foreigner. They are so dumb that even a mole is more amenable to learning.
How many times have we heard this “Argentina did not exist before 1853?”... and what is the “gravamen” that butressess this entire line of logic?
A name change.
Yes... I know it sounds absurd, zany, and deluded, but that's it. A name change. Argentina has no rights to anything prior to 1853 under international law because of a name change.
This has been one of the major arguments not only for the Falklands question (which I do not support my country in), but also in many other areas like wars, and first rights.
So... recapping. The Falklands existed before Argentina. Thus claiming the Falklands is a non-starter (which actually is fine with me given my stance about this issue).
But this actually kills two birds with one stone, because not only would it make Argentina's obsession with the Falkland's illegitimate, but it would also make he UK's claim over Antarctica completely void.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_of_Great_Britain_and_Ireland
The Republic of Argentina has been on Antarctica LONGER than the the UK of Great Britain and NORTHERN Ireland. The entity called the UK of Great Britain and IRELAND no longer exist, so their claim is cabinet dust.
As I have said all along in the other thread, the UK's claim is not only geoghaphically unsustainable (everyone laughs at it), not only are they overwhelmed by the argie population, not only do argies live there and give birth there, not only is our permanent presence longer than theirs... but their claim is nugatory.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_of_Great_Britain_and_Ireland
This country no longer exist. Oh well.
Like I said, Antarctica will be Argentine, and that's just another reason for it. (and with Scotland seceeding it will make it even worse). Ireland and Scotland would have as much rights to a piece of it than modern UK.
The Antarctic claims are on hold. Which actually turned out to be a horrible move by th UK, which was a main sponsor of it, and I admit are usually competent people at subterfuge and skullduggery.
Horrible because the more time passes, the less the original claimant actually exist. The country that will attempt to claim the UK portion of Antarctica may in fact be 3 of 4 different ones come 2060 or so. Argentina will still be the same exact entity as in 1904, 1937, etc.
Given that fact and all the others I mentioned (the only supposed advantage you had was “first claim”, which in fact isn't even true as the country that made the claim technically no longer exists and Ireland would have just as much rights to that... and further more it was the Portuguese and Dutch that made first sighting)... so even that part is issuable in court.
I always said, you have the Falklands under strong legal and cultural arguments, but you have very little shot at Antarctica. Especially since world opinion keeps shifting away from a Euro-centric world, to the benefit of the other continents.
So happy you see sense with regards to The Islands though,I feel you and I may become sweethearts now. LOL OVER YOUR DEAD BODY
I said that the Republic of Argentina was created in 1853. That is historic fact.
Before you 'officially' existed there was an Argentina - sort of, but it wasn't ratified. Before that, in 1833, there was the United Provinces of the River Plate, which included parts of what is now Argentina and Uruguay.
Fancy not knowing that!
Pathetic Tobias, really pathetic, only cherry picking the parts of history that support your lame claims.
Also, Britain's claim to the Anarctica pre-dates Argentina's by nearly 40 years. No marks for you today, Tobias.
Perhaps if you tried learning REAL history instead of the propaganda spoon fed to you by successive governments who want to keep you ignorant of the truth as it makes you easier to manipulate and steal from, you wouldn't make yourself look such a fool.
As for Anarctica on day being Argentine, I doubt it very much. The way things are going Argentina may not be Argentine very much longer, especially if you continue to vote in (and I use that term loosely) crooks, whose only interest is lining their own pockets instead of making Argentina a better place.
I truly hope that Argentina gets a decent government soon. If not, then I doubt the Argentine economy will last out the year.
See (figuratively) you all next year!!!!!
It is not just population.
If it was or was not expelled.
This is the expulsion from the country that exercised sovereignty in the islands. Do you understand now?
Forget the bad guys on both sides and begin to cooperate. Economy, fishing, tourism, sports.
My God, is so hard!! Open the minds of people!!!
A very Happy and Prosperous 2013 to all on Malvinas
Who are the “good guys” in the Argentine gov't?
Argentina continued its encroachments in spite of Britons protests. So you have two nations claiming the same rights, they did the only thing that nations could do then. They went nose-to-nose, guess what you lost, move on get over it. If it was ever to be legally determined it would be determined under the international laws that existed in 1833. So the UK would win under the “right of conquest” doctrine alone, in addition to the many other claims she could rely on.
Look, every false claim by the Argentinenean government can be refuted by historical documentation. The simple fact is, if people keep taking these claims at face value and repeating them without doing their own research, then they are either too lazy or too stupid.
I taught myself the history of the Islands, not my government. It would seem it is indeed too hard for some Argentineans to open their minds as you requested.
The colony had British approval and a right to be there. The garrison did not. The garrison was expelled upon Britain learning of it, not the colony.
So which are you? Too lazy or too stupid? Research is really not that difficult considering you obviously know how to use the Internet.
My new best friend Nostrolldamus refuses to talk about internal Argentine affairs because I have come to the simple conclusion he is ashamed and embarrased.
.
Cheers!
Your claim is based on the false premise that the solution to any dispute is compromise, and the fact that there is a dispute means that both sides have an equal or just claim.
This is simply not the case.
The Argentine claim to the islands is fundamentally flawed across every single facet of its claim. If it were not flawed, and there were a just claim, the islands would have been “returned” just as 40-50 other territories have around the world, the vast majority peacefully.
Quite simply there is no Argentine claim. No just claim at all. You, your children and your countrymen are lied to.
The Spanish sovereignty was “shared” with the British.
Both left.
In my opinion, both took any claim of sovereignty with them. It left the islands with sovereignty. So anything before 1811 is irrelevant.
Both Britain and the United Provinces “claimed” sovereignty verbally. Again irrelevant.
Both had multiple ships “passing through” including Jewitt. Irrelevant.
Vernet had permission from both the UP and the British for his private enterprise. So irrelevant.
The “only” attempt by the Argentines to back up their claim with people came in November 1822. This was immediately protested by the British. The penal colony led by Mestevier arrived in November, they mutinied, murdered Mestevier in front of his wife and then raped her in front of their children. Pinedo reestablished some form of order.
In January, HMS Clio arrived and forced Pinedo and his crew to leave.
So from 1811 and the Spanish leaving, other than irrelevant verbal claims, the occasional ship visiting, an irrelevant private enterprise, the Argentine claim amounts to 6 weeks of mutiny, murder and rape.
Seven this wafer thin claim has been given far too much credence prior to 1982, due to the British over-apology for anything remotely colonial.
Post 1982 it is a done deal. Never, Never, Never.
The wafer thin became Nothing and Never. it's done...Forever.
Happy New Year to you to you joyful fellow. What are your New Year's resolutions? Would you like to share any with us. How about holding your breath until the Argentine flag is flying over the Falklands?
Chuckle chuckle
@286ynsere: I do not know if there are good people in government.
But in Argentina there are very good people, you, all in the island should give us a chance.
@287 Terence Hill: Even the conquest requires of a treaty. In this case there is. Therefore the claim continues.
@288Anglotino: “The period 1820 to 1833 is also complex and further complicated” Leona Roberts.
To whom are indoctrinating, hiding much of his own story?
I am in favor of a joint investigation by Argentine and British historians to get closer to the truth.
Regards
Ah Happy new year for Monty, Red, Isolde, Domingo, Dab, J.A. Roberts, briton, etc, etc, to all all all...
Not according to General theory of law and state, by Hans Kelsen. 1945
...according to international law, a territorial change, provided that the occupation, made with the intention of incorporating the occupied territory into the territory of the occupying State, assumes a permanent character, and that means that the legal order of the occupying State becomes efficacious for the territory in question...annexation is not only possible in time of war, but also in time of peace. The decisive point is that annexation, that is, taking possession of another State's territory with the intention to acquire it, constitutes acquisition of this territory even without the consent of the State to which the territory previously belonged, if the possession is “firmly established.” It makes no difference whether the annexation takes place after an occupatio bellica or not.
But there was also a treaty of peace 1850 Convention of Settlement, for the Settlement of existing Differences and the re-establishment of Friendship. The effect of according to all the experts GROTIUS,
Vattel,HENRY WHEATON, LL.D, H. W. HALLECK, JAMES MADISON CUTT, John Westlake,T. J. LAWRENCE, M.A., LL.D.,
GEORGE GRAFTON WILSON, Ph.D., LL.D, L. OPPENHEIM, M.A., LL.D is as follows:
The treaty of peace leaves every thing in the state in which it found it, unless there be some express stipulation to the contrary. The existing state of possession is maintained, except so far as altered by the terms of the treaty. If nothing be said about the conquered country or places, they remain with the conqueror, and his title cannot afterwards be called in question.
-It is not just population.
If it was or was not expelled.-
Malvi,
Only the garrison was expelled
-This is the expulsion from the country that exercised sovereignty in the islands. Do you understand now?-
The United Provinces did not exercise sovereignty then. You are confusing the exercise of government with the exercise of sovereignty. The UP did some government acts for the Falklands, but it had not yet established sovereignty. It had neither inherited the Spanish claim, nor had it yet established effective control over the Falklands. The time period from 1811 to 1833 was not long enough for Spain to lose any rights it had through prescription, therefore if the Falklands (or the eastern part) were Spanish in 1816, they were still Spanish in 1833
-Forget the bad guys on both sides and begin to cooperate. Economy, fishing, tourism, sports.
My God, is so hard!! Open the minds of people!!!-
Argentina is the one impeding cooperation by making cooperation conditional on the unconditional surrender of the Falkland Islanders. Argentina also interferes with other countries in the region cooperating with the Falklands
A very Happy and Prosperous 2013 to all on the Falklands-
Fixed that for you.
A very Happy and Prosperous 2013 to everyone everywhere.
291 Islas Malvinas (#)
-I wanted to wish a Happy New Year to all my British friends in Insular Argentina.-
Your British friends living in Tierra del Fuego no doubt return the sentiment.
294 Malvinense 1833
-@287 Terence Hill: Even the conquest requires of a treaty. In this case there is. Therefore the claim continues.-
Convention of Settlement 1849, ratified 1850. Principle of Uti possidetis.
: a principle in international law that recognizes a peace treaty between parties as vesting each with the territory and property under its control unless otherwise stipulated
The Convention was a peace treaty.
1. Argentine immediately changes its constitution to remove all claims on the Falklands.
2. Every time Argentina makes a promise, the national treasure deposits very large sums of cash (to be determined by more knowledgeable people than myself) in an independent third-country bank. If Argentina breaks its promise, said funds are handed over to the Islanders forthwith.
3. Given that the presence of British forces in the Falklands was made necessary by the Argentines, Buenos Aires picks up all related bills, paying cash in advance.
3. Argentina opens an embassy with a staff of three (more than three Argentines together become a mob) in Stanley, and the Falklanders open one in Punta del Este (on account of the criminality in Buenos Aires; the Islanders aren't used to dealing with common or garden thieves).
4. Argentina to address all matters related to the Falklands to the Falklanders.
To date your Govt in Buenos Aires has NOT replied to our offer to sit down and talk across the table together- Why?
This despite your President announcing at the UN that all she wants to do is sit and talk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Islas Malvinas - since my ancestors came to these Islands as settlers in 1845 and later bought land to farm- how can I be “implanted” in the country of my birth for 5 generations and for 7 of younger members of my family?
Another relative of mine went to Rio Gallegos in 1860 - when the only Arg prescence there was a policeman in a little one room hut - he took over by boat, the FIRST sheep to Start farming in Santa Cruz Province and bought land there - did you know that the currency of the day in Rio Gallegos until the 1890s was the British Pound?
Now - are my cousins who still live on that land today - Argentines - or Implanted ?
Please answer me on this?
Maybe the Falklands can make a claim over Santa Cruz Province - after all it was settlers from the Islands who first went there and started to develop it!
-I said that the Republic of Argentina was created in 1853. That is historic fact.-
And it did not include the Province of Buenos Aires, which had broken away in 1852 and rejoined in 1862
-Also, Britain's claim to the Anarctica pre-dates Argentina's by nearly 40 years. No marks for you today, Tobias.-
Many more years than 40. The letters patent of 1908 was not to make territorial claims, those had been made many years before, but to establish for their government as Dependencies of the Falklands. The UK first made claims in the Antarctic sector in 1819 (South Shetland Islands). Graham Land, the Antarctic Peninsula was claimed in 1832. However, the territory claimed on mainland Antarctica, was extended down to the South Pole in the letters patent of 1917. Before it had been limited to Graham Land.
The islanders accuse argentina of considering just one outcome in order to find a solution for this dispute. According to the interpretation that they and their councellours do, argentina considers that islands must be under our sovereignty only, because our constitution expresses that arg. must recover the full sovereignty, however at the same time, they have always manifested that they are disposed to talk about different issues, but not about the sovereignty, which is the main problem, so, they are being as intransigent as the other part that they accuse. In case that the u. k decides to resume the negotiations with arg. about the sovereignty, and the islanders manifest that they want to remain under british gov., arg. won't be able to force them to accept our sovereignty only, beyond what our constitution expresses about our claim, if the u. n has always manifested that both countries must dialoge in order to find a peacefull solution, the population from the islands will be able to continue under british gov. as much as they wish, but it doesn't mean that both parts can't find a solution respecting the sovereignty, that satisfies all the parts. C. f. k. was very clear before the u. n when she said that we are not asking the u. k to recognize that the islands are argentine, we are just asking it to dialogue with us about it. Anyway the conversations should include the islanders also, not just the u. k.
As our distinguished forum user Islander1 rightly says there request to sit and talk with The Kirchner governmant as fallen on death ears,So why should the good peace loving hard working people of The Falkland Islands be treated in this way?? For me the stakes are to high for ANY British Prime Minister to EVER sit and talk with the Argentines without the full agreement and involment of The Islanders-heres hoping The Argentine people get rid of This C troublesome woman ASAP.
She and her Govt have NEVER replied or acknowledged it as yet
So just who is being belligerent and one sided?.
You keep hoping that there will be some sort of compromise because Britain has been at fault at times as well as Argentina.
While historic facts might be open to interpretation, the will of the people living there today aren't. They have made their choice and the upcoming referendum will also be a voicing of that choice.
The UN only recognises a sovereignty dispute, nothing more, nothing less.
While I understand Argentina's position and claim and their actual history, there is nothing there that can be used to deny the right's of the Islanders to self-determination.
Argentina's position is nothing less than total sovereignty. This may include protections and caveats but it is still their sole position.
The UK also accepts this position.
But it is NOT their SOLE position. They will accept everything from full independence down.
Argentina's entire position is based on the Islanders having NO right to self-determination.
Britain's entire position is based on the Islanders having A right to self-determination.
The UN might not have an opinion on the sovereignty dispute, but it definitely has an opinion on self-determination.
You so however argue your points clearly and politely. You do more to help the Argentine position on these forums than most others I've replied to.
1. Be nice to foreigners
2. Make sure I don't have to encounter any of them.
@301
Argentina has withdrawn from all cooperation agreements with the Falklands (Fishing), Chile (gas), Brazil (trade), Paraguay (border exchange), Uruguay (river dredging), EU (Paris club), USA (IMF), China (imports), Mexico (cars), because they all were made to take away our sovereingty.
When countries sign treaties with Argentina, it is not like treaties with other countries. There is an ulterior motive : TO TAKE TERRITORY AWAY FROM US.
We have woken up from our naiveness. Never again we will cooperate and be friendly with other nations. Happy 2013.
“When countries sign treaties with Argentina, it is not like treaties with other countries. There is an ulterior motive : TO TAKE TERRITORY AWAY FROM US.”
Yup, treaties with other countries are different from the ones with Argentina.
We only do this to Argentina.
Just sitting on a big pile 'o money here, waiting for Argentina to give into temptation and sell their souls (and sovereignty) for big $$$ and £££, and €€€, or even ¥¥¥.
We think about nothing else.
Hamas has nothing to worry about. compared to what the Mossad has in store for Argentina.
MI6 has your phone tapped because you are so much of a priority.
Happy New Year.
: a principle in international law that recognizes a peace treaty between parties as vesting each with the territory and property under its control unless otherwise stipulated
The Convention was a peace treaty.
dab..you still are a liar,I see..You were answered brilliantly by Dr Shadow, in several forum.........You are a miserable LIAR! 1849,convention has NOTHING to DO with MAlvinas.Argentina continued the protest and invited uk to SETTLE THE DISPUTE in a court of LAw in 1884,and at least 5 times after..1849,SETTLED NOTHING FOR MALVINAS...
One of the several forum you were defeated,david....useless prick!!
www.topix.com/forum/world/falkland-islands/TR0KI67QOU0O96MB3/p4
Have you even read what you posted?
“a principle in international law that recognizes a peace treaty between parties as vesting each with the territory and property under its control unless otherwise stipulated”
“territory and property under its control unless otherwise stipulated”
It was not stipulated in the convention of settlement 1849 that Argentina wanted the falklands.
Again:
“territory and property under its control unless otherwise stipulated”
You keep arguing archaic facts that change nothing on the ground.
Doesn't it get tiring when you can't gain any traction whatsoever?
1833
1849
1884
Here's a better year: 2013.
The year the Islanders exercise their right to self-determination. Sorta blows all those other years out of the water when it comes to international law.
Hmm, all these experts are outweighed by yours and Dr. Shadow humble opinions. Are you sure you don't want to add the Green Lantern or Batman to the mix? Oh! are there anymore straws we can give you to grasp?
GROTIUS
Vattel
HENRY WHEATON, LL.D
H. W. HALLECK
JAMES MADISON CUTT
John Westlake
T. J. LAWRENCE, M.A., LL.D.
GEORGE GRAFTON WILSON, Ph.D., LL.D
L. OPPENHEIM, M.A., LL.D
In any kind of negotiation these countries have nothing to offer should they actually sit down with the third party. This is precisely what they are afraid of doing, because they know they have absolutely naught that the other party wants.
Instead they use it as some kind of whinge-utopia while an israeli american (timmerman) runs their foreign police like it was a school playground.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uPHb2b2gIY
Malvi, I really don't understand with arguments such as these why you don't just go to the ICJ. Even the Witch Thatcher stated back in 1983 that Britain would respond favourably if Argentina introduced a case. And all you have to do to claim victory is prove that :
1) The sovereignity dispute between the UK and Spain was somehow resolved in favour of Spain
2) the Spanish claim was somehow inherited by Argentina when it hadn't been renounced by Spain itself.
3) the tenancy of Vernet somehow conferred ownership rights
4) the attempted implantation of state sponsored murderers and rapists in 1832 somehow conferred sovereignity
5) the expulsion of civilians somehow actually happened (although no evidence of it exists, and the evidence which does exist flatly contradicts it)
6) the 1850 Treaty somehow does say what it doesn't say, and doesn't say what it does say
7) the 1982 War of Agression somehow doesn't count, or if it does, it was actually carried out by your evil twin brother, the junta.
8) the settlement of the Falkland Islands by immigrants is somehow different from the settlement of the South American mainland by immigrants
8) the fundamental founding principle of the United Nationsas signed up to by Argentina in 1945 somehow doesn't count when it doesn't suit.
It's quite a tall order, but given that you've managed to convince yourself that 1982 was a victory for Argentina, I'm sure you can come up with something.
Even you could not believe the absolute rubbish that you speak.
You're a moron, man.
Feel better now, nostril? Vented it out of your system?
2013 is going to be a good year. Peace.
Wow! Your paranoia is reaching amazing levels, never go near a psychiatric ward for you will never get out again.
They're basically all pathological liars.
Yes, almost as much to blame as the rest of the world, this Junta lot. Where did they come from by the way?
However, if we take this out of the context of 'the modern world', South Americans don't really have the same moral and ethical structure that we take for granted. They think theft, lies and torture are a normal part of life and that having your money stolen by your president is not a culpable act. Their bank notes have pictures celebrating ethnic cleansing and they freely allow their aboriginals to starve to death.
In this context, 'a sick joke' is just routine.
“UK faces another 'hard grind' in 2013, economists warn”
www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/9772905/UK-faces-another-hard-grind-in-2013-economists-warn.html
en.mercopress.com/2012/12/26/the-magic-of-currencies-uk-overtakes-brazil-as-the-world-s-sixth-largest-economy
PLEASE NOTE Argentina as slipped to 27 in world GDP figures for 2012 and thats on FALSE information provided by your country
Happy New Year from a far prosperous UNITED KIGDOM
I am happy for you and your prosperous “UNITED KIGDOM”, wherever it is.
www.debtbombshell.com/
Nah! I read a piece some time ago. An Article on the Telegraph web site, on the subject of the Falklands. There was a post from an Argentinian, who wrote that he grown up in the UK having been brought there as a refugee, by his parents. He obviously took an Argentine stance on the subject. The spooky thing is this, the poster signed himself as Marcos Alejandro.
Pure coincidence of course, two posters with the same name! our Marcos would not be that much of an ingrate and a hypocrit!
Hence my, “See your still reading the Telegraph,” comment.
NO, we are not going to repay the money we borrowed. They seem to think this is the ethical thing to do.
Your post sort of discredits CFK's stance of “give peace a chance” Mike.
do not be single minded..
be open/multi minded. *!
How are you dealing with THE DISSAPEARD lately all seems to be quiet on that front,have you given up on them????
Like I said, probably a coincidence, though I will say this.
It has always been my experience that, if you step in something that;
Feels like shit,
Looks like shit and
Smells like shit.
It is most probably, shit!
In the convention of 1849 Uruguayan President Oribe involved in the agreement, so it is ridiculous to think that the Malvinas gave at the behest of a foreign president.
After 1849 Argentina continue with the protests. He proposed to go to arbitration.
Argentinas Protests were growing as the British Empire collapses.
After, at the end of World War II in 1945, guess who is the new world power ?
Coincidentally, at what time Argentine protests grow?
Sorry Pascoe and Pepper should look for something better.
Of course, had nothing at all to do with Herr Colonel Perons admiration for Fascist Germany. Italy and Spain, would it?
The fact is, Argentina signed away their claims to the Islands in the declaration of peace between the Argies and the UK. The only reason they started stamping their feet again was because Peron, like Hitler, was a nazi expansionist who wanted to have the spoils of WWII. Sadly his political ally lost, and Argentina got nothing.
then more peronist fascism, then more... then more... then more and more called Kirchnerism ...Repeat ad nauseum
Then Timmerman, a jewish american man from USA, joined the Nazi Front for FAIL. And we all asked why?
Don't be sorry for Pascoe and Pepper nobody has shown them to be inaccurate.
“Nah! I read a piece some time ago. An Article on the Telegraph web site, on the subject of the Falklands. There was a post from an Argentinian, who wrote that he grown up in the UK having been brought there as a refugee, by his parents. He obviously took an Argentine stance on the subject. The spooky thing is this, the poster signed himself as Marcos Alejandro.
our Marcos would not be that much of an ingrate and a hypocrit!”
Just like Canada's “ Pirat-hunter ” aka ALEX VARGAS, an ungrateful refugee with a similar story. They have much in common and have have arrived at the same way of thinking.
“Marcos” must be mentally-ill like ALEX.
Regardless of how things go, it will be another year of self-induced misery and anger for these two.
Oh, I forgot, it's not their fault!
:-)
Beyond the miserability that some of you show in your comments, every time you reffer to c. f. k., i have always recognized that in some aspects, her gov. is commiting a serious mistake. But the big difference between you and i, is that despite i dont agree in absolut with the postures of your goverments, i don't insult them, because i'm not neather miserable nor pathetic.
Allthough i agree mostly with the policy of c. f. k.'s govt. respecting the malvinas-falkland cause, i have always criticised also the fact that her administration doesn't ask the govt. from the islands to dialogue with them about the sovereignty, she always says she wants to dalogue with the u. k., but she doesn't include the islanders in the proposal of dialogue, and i think it's a big mistake. However, your govts. have never expressed that they would be disposed to dialogue with arg. about the sovereignty. In fact, they have always conditioned the conversations for the sovereignty, which is the main problem, to the will of the islanders, so, for you, there is also just one outcome. This is evident that you haven't understood yet that allthough the u. k. decides to resume the negotiations with arg. for the sovereignty, and if the islanders express that the prefer remaining under british govt., argentina won't be able to force them to accept just our sovereignty, but it doesn't mean that the three parts can't find a solution for the sovereignty which satisfies all the parts, if you prefer believing something different, that's your problem. The other difference between you and i, is that beyond my support to c. f. k's govt., i have never stopped criticising the mistakes of her govt., in your case, you just blame arg. and don't recognize that your govts. aren't acting correctly either in some aspects. A question, if tomorrow c. f. k manifests that she wants to dialogue with the islanders about the sovereignty, would you accept it?.
Anyone know?
We don't follow the teachings of the chief catholic, unlike Tony 'CofE' Blair, so we don't have to pray to their pantheon of demi-gods or relics and we definitely don't listen to papal bulls.
Now the argies have absolutely no argument.
That settles it.
Re your last, if she changed her stance and wanted dialogue with the Islanders, that would have to be something they would have to decide on. They might decide to talk, after all that could improve relations and I believe they may have already offered such. However honestly, I do not see them ceeding any form of sovereignty.
I think this is something an islander would have to comment on.
What I would feel comfortable in saying on the subjectas a Brit is, that they would deffinately get support from us in the UK, whatever they decided.
It's simply not how these fascists do it.
Knowing how many Nazi fled to Argentina after WW11 there was also a rumour that Hitler actually lived out his days out. I can't say I believe it but that he would have been welcomed by Peron is in no doubt.
Here's a good conspiracy theorist book for you. The Grey Wolf.
Did (code name Grey Wolf) really die in 1945? The evidence says no. Heres the gripping story of what might have happened... When Truman asked Stalin in 1945 whether Hitler was dead, Stalin replied bluntly, No. As late as 1952, Eisenhower declared: We have been unable to unearth one bit of tangible evidence of Hitler's death. What really happened? Simon Dunstan and Gerrard Williams have compiled extensive evidence, some recently declassified, that Hitler actually fled Berlin and took refuge in a remote Nazi enclave in Argentina. The recent discovery that the famous Hitler's skull in Moscow is female, as well as newly uncovered documents, provide powerful proof for their case. Dunstan and Williams cite people, places and dates in over 500 detailed notes that identify the plan's escape route, vehicles, aircraft, U-boats and hideouts. Among the details: the CIA's possible involvement and Hitler's life in Patagonia, including his two daughters.
Saw a documentary on it on Sky, whilst I am not a conspiracy theorist nut. it certainly made me think!
Nationalism is a pretty unifying force, but it historically has failed to deliver successful political stability without authoritarianism to back it up. KFC has no option but to be more and more ruthless as she continues to use it, and the Argentines will at some point expect her to act with regards to their 'malvinas issue'.
That's when we deploy our ninjas.
It is very simple,the Islanders will have THE FINAL SAY on there future, in the NEAR ZERO chance they elected or decided they would be happy with Argentine sovereighnty The British Governmant would accept that,now WHEN The Islanders vote or continue saying they are happy being a B.O.T (British Overseas Territory) will your delightful Princess Kristina Kircher Accept that?? NO.Kirchner as made it clear that she wants to see The Falkland Islands under Argentine Sovereighnty during her Presidency so if that is the case THERE IS NOTHING TO TALK ABOUT.
What Argentines can not get through there thick heads is that The UK governmant is not going to rule over sovereighnty without the clear wishes of The Islanders it is there futures there homeland and there decision which I am proud to say that a UK governmant will stand by,thats how a true deomcrecy works by the will of the people, Self Determination. What is clear from most Argentines is that you could not care less what The Islanders want as long as you get what Argentina wants unfortunately that is not going to happen.
Finally if my remarks about your leader SS HITLER KRISTINA KIRCHNER PERON offends you then accept my apologies unfortunately to see this woman in action ranting and raving with those HUGE botox lips talking shit really does not make her a likeable person she's a nationalistic trouble causer it would do you good to note the British responce when the old botox queen goes of on a ranting anti Britsh session which is usualy quiet deplomacy.
It's no wonder they love Peronism so much.
The fisheries “agreement” with the Faklands was a facade used by the United Kingdom to eventually take away territorial waters away from Argentina, by using any possible violations by Argentina as an excuse for uniteteral patrol of argentines waters to “prevent” overfishing that could harm the Falklands. Eventually that would have lead to some sort of territorial enclave around Mar del Plata years down the line. That's how the British have always tried to gain territory around the world.
We were just smart enough to realize it and end all cooperation with the UK.
They're not your territorial waters anyway, so I'm really not sure why you're discussing what belongs to someone else.
There will be NO NEGOTIATIONS on sovereignty, Axel.
Get used to it.
Don't know why l even bother replying to him, he never listens to any refutal of his ridiculous posts & just keeps repeating the same bulls**t.
Maybe he is a computer, programmed by the Argentine govt!
It was at east a humanitarian gesture, unlike the UK or USA that OPENLY welcomed nazi criminal scientists after the war, to submit their own people and others to gross medical experiments and to use Nazi knowledge to oppress other countries through military advancement.
Yes they are our territorial waters, anything up to 17km offsore are our waters... not yours you neo-colonialist brit.
Also know who it was that gave him the shelter that allowed him to live for another forty years and it was not the US or the UK.
Interesting place, Cordoba. Some of President Roca's descendants live near there. I had a very interesting conversation with one of them. I remember seeing a picture of him with Kissinger hanging on his wall and decided to grill him over a bottle of wine late one night. Most revealing. How Argentines love to talk.
Ah yes Shadow. He said uti possidetis only applied to conquered territories. As proof of his argument he gave a link to a forum where he said the same thing, but there offered no supporting evidence. In other words he was simply quoting himself. And he referred to the Treaty of Breda 1667, which not only doesn't support his position, it actually contradicts it.
Argentina has not made 5 requests for arbitration, it has made only one.
The protest of 1884 was by the UK to Argentina, not by Argentina to the UK, over the publication of an Argentine map which included the Falklands as part of Argentina. As a consecuence of that British protest Argentina asked for the dispute to be settled. There was correspondence between 1884 and 1885 over this request which ended in the single request for arbitration, in 1888, which Argentina didn't follow up on.
340 Malvinense 1833
Spanish occupation was limited to Port Louis.And in 1648 Spain accepted that its territories were those it occupied. And the UK didn't abandon the Falklands. It withdrew the garrison, but there were frequent British visits to the islands.
It's irrelevant that there was a 3rd signatory to the 1849 treaty. Plenty of peace treaties involve more than 2 countries
357 Nostrolldamus The 5th
Could you please explain why the UK would need an enclave in Mar del Plata, which is about 770nmi away, to prevent overfishing near the Falklands when it could much more easily do it from the Falklands. In any case the UK government doesn't patrol fishing around the Falklands. The Falklands Government does.
Hang on a minute, rewind! let's get this straight, aside from the Falkland Islands, you saying that the UK has territorial ambitions over Argentina???
Yet she refuses to accept the invitation from the Islands Govt to sit down with her Govt and do just that! These are all issues that are 100% under the control of the Islands Elected Govt and not UK. eg - fisheries conservation- hydrocarbons co-operation and joint zone areas-communications- tourism- trade- co-operation and goodwill in general, etc etc .
WHAT are you prattling on about?
But CFK has a problem - to agree to the above means that she has to admit that we Islanders actually exist, and have the same democratic human rights as Argentine people do!
You say Sov has to be on the Agenda at the start! Answer me this- A large and aggressive bully is demanding you hand over your home to him- he is making is difficult for you to get in and out of the street and also for you to receive visitors and trade with other people and threatens that if the Policeman leaves your door - then he will break in.(Your Defence Minister has stated publically that your forces would invade again if the British withdrew).
Would you be prepared to sit down with the bully guy and discuss ownership - who states that he wants your house and could not give a damn about you as you have no rights .
Please answer Yes - or No?
362- the Joint Fisheries Conservation Agreement covered waters OUTSIDE both Arg and FI Territorial limits!! Get your facts straight! It even had a “nomans-land” buffer zone in the middle so neither siode.s patrol vessels would come face-to-face! But both sides had the right of armed hot persuit of an illegal boat into the other,s zone right up to the territorial limit.
You did not answer the question, I was only asking because, that would actually explain a lot of mysterious goings on around MPA.
The secret tunneling that's been going on for the last 30 years (Always wondered what they did with the channel tunnel equipment?) don't tell me your intelligence people have not noticed that Longdon and Tumbledown are getting higher (the spoils been put there under the cover of darkness, trick we learned in the Offlags.) Only 20 more miles to Patagonia.
Of course, if your aircraft were able to overfly the Islands, they would have spotted the 1st, 3rd and 7th Armoured Brigades in hidding, in strategic places around the island, usually in buildings with the red cross on the roof (Trick we learned from you.)
I know you think I am bullshitting, how could all those tanks get on the islands unobserverved. You do not think you orchestrated the cruise ship embargo do you. MI6 mate, MI6! they come ashore at night, when the passengers are sleeping.
Tomorrow Argentina, und zen zee rest of ze vorld!!!!!!!!!!!
MALVINAS ARGENTINAS!!!
Boooring, I am not Mike B. nor I have a drop of British blood in my veins(thank God).
Never lived in your country(visited a few days in the past), nor I post in British papers, some here did for me in the past though.
Proud to be Argentino.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=p535FXlyhk8
Troy Tempest, sorry to hear about your dad Gerry, making proud and honor him closing your wooden mouthpiece.
“The fisheries “agreement” with the Faklands was a facade used by the United Kingdom to eventually take away territorial waters away from Argentina, by using any possible violations by Argentina as an excuse for uniteteral patrol of argentines waters to “prevent” overfishing that could harm the Falklands. Eventually that would have lead to some sort of territorial enclave around Mar del Plata years down the line. That's how the British have always tried to gain territory around the world. ”
If, as you say, that is how ALL the agreements between Arg. and foreigners work out, you must have been really easy to dupe over and over again.
What parts of 'real' Argentina have you lost??
@345 Axel
“ but it doesn't mean that the three parts can't find a solution for the sovereignty which satisfies all the parts, ”
A moot point, as Argentina will not speak with the islanders. Argentina is trying to negotiate with the wrong body altogether.
It would be similar to BP negotiating with Spain's Repsol to take over operations of YPF. I imagine you would want a say in it :-)
@Marcos
The parallels between you and ALEX PH are remarkable. You are both feeling angry and inadequate, living amongst the culture and people of a benevolent and gracious host.
You both also seem to have a fear of Jews and Homosexuals LOL.
To top it off, you both seem to have lost your moral compass down a dark smelly place.
You really are two peas in a pod, the angry ranting dogma spewing, lower-echelon Trolls. You make “ProARG” look good!
Have a good year. WE will!!!
Your english grammar and spelling seems to have dropped below your usual standard. Call me a cynical, but you seem to be faking! Boring spelled wrong, connections omitted! not your usual high standard.
Love your use of the English word “Dad” though, learn that on the couple of days you spent here, did you? Not many people, learning English, academically, would know, that “Dad” was the colloquial English word for father.
Foreigners, living or having lived here would absolutely know it though. Just has they would know that “Mum” was the colloquial English word for mother.
Nice try MA.
Well spotted, Reality, and exactly right!!
Got no beef with any Rg who wants to stick up for what he thinks is right, he or she is as much entitled to his or her opinions as I am, or you are. That's the beauty of the internet.
However, to my mind, any person who has taken refuge here, lived in total safety amongst us, been treated as one of us and been afforded all the freedoms that we have and then has the audacity to criticise us that way, is despicable, beyond words.
We do not expect gratitude from those need help, but I think we are at least entitled to have a modicum of respect for our way of life, history and traditions.
Maybe he is not the same MA, but this old coppers bones doubt it very much!
Thanks Mal, this has to be one of the funniest ever MP moments. Someone calls you a brainwashed idiot, and your reply......
''AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA MALVINAS ARGENTINAS!!!''
Hilarious.
377 Marcos Alejandro
Loving the comedy poor English. You are coming over a bit 'Yoda' though. You probably need to take it back a few notches.
Back To The Falkland Islands
After nearly 11 years, I was invited to the Falklands for
a second visit. This time, the week I would spend there
had more to do with medical matters than tourism. I
was to work with the local healthcare authorities on
Uruguay’s and especially the British Hospital’s capacity
to ably respond to the urgent and immediate needs
of critical patients, as we have done in the past. The
changes that have happened in the past decade in the
South Atlantic also required that we jointly update our
medical relationship with the islands, which has existed
for the greater part of the last hundred years.
This time I would travel in November, as opposed to
my first visit, which took place in February. I expected
the weather to be cooler this time and I searched
www.AccuWeather.com for the information. It took me
longer than expected to find the Falkland Islands in the
website, but eventually discovered them under ‘South
America’. Even with the long detour flight via Santiago
and Punta Arenas and then to Mount Pleasant airfield, I
was to remain within the South American region during
all of my trip.
It takes virtually 24 hours from home in Montevideo
to Stanley. Mount Pleasant airfield is about 60 km west
of the islands’ capital, a van trip of about one hour, to be
added to the duration of the flight times, not counting
an overnight stay in Santiago. The flight climaxes on
its last short 1:15 hour leg, from Punta Arenas to the
Falklands, when the westernmost reaches of West
Falkland appear on the window: barren, with very few
roads and a house or settlement every now and then.
Once on the ground, I took the van ride to Stanley,
enjoying the rolling hills, the inlets, the ‘stone runs’,
the distant view of settlements and signs of scattered
human activity, on a virtually treeless landscape. I got
off the van and into the hotel, appropriately named the
Waterfront, on Ross Road, close to the la
Zee Shtukas arrive on zee islands next veek! Pleez deestroy zis messarg on rezeept. oder zee feelthy english schweinhunds might unterzept it. Ve vill destroy zer plans to invade ze glorious muzzeland, zee foul vorld dominatrixes vill not zukzeed/
Last one, bored now, thinks I've given his twisted mind enough to think about.
OK you win. You aren't a sad twisted paranoid wierdo. You're right; the British will be along shortly to invade your country to steal your water. The best thing you can do is build an underground bunker and live in it. And don't whatever you do use the internet. As you know, the British secret service can use it to spy on you through the screen.
All methods to conquer Argentina.
''Euro-American Imperialism class''??? Now I know you're taking the piss.
Anyway, I told you, I believe you. I doubt we'll be seeing you any more once the invasion starts, but it's been great knowing you.
Damn! ferkin hate it when that happens!!!!!!!!!
Nice one nosey.
Nosey, go back to squitting vitrious faeces from your anal thesaurus, would you please, more accustomed to that.
“We do not expect gratitude from those need help, but I think we are at least entitled to have a modicum of respect for our way of life, history and traditions.”
Yes, Reality, I do agree, no gratitude is required. This is especially true if they came with their parents and it was not up to them.
It's likely they no nothing else , anyway.
However, to pretend they are our friend while they criticise and undermine us, is not on.
They are entitled to their views, opinions, and judgements. No thought police here.
They can speak their minds in a straight forward manner, but don't skulk and hide.
If you cannot reconcile yourself to our culture and values, please be honest and go join your own culture instead of betraying our friendship and trust.
I honestly believe that the idealistic PH ALEX VARGAS hates us, is scared to go to Argentina, and even if he could go, he could not re-enter Canada. “Trapped”, in enemy territory, so to speak.
The tragedy for him is that his mental illness makes him live outside of society - owns nothing, no credit. He lives outside of the society he despises, yet surrounds him. He is in limbo and does not engage.
I am not sure what do you mean, I speak your language and a few more however I am still learning and I am not faking one way or another.
What really surprise me is how many monolinguals British get shock when they see anybody else speaking more than one language, inferiority complex perhaps?
If the photograph of PH posted on the links here is him, he looks to be about 30 years old + or - a year or two. Which means there's a high probability that PH was taken to Canada as ayoung child, or even born there.
Why do I say that? well what was happening in Argentina 30 + years ago. I do not know much about Canadian immigration, but I am willing to bet, that thirty years ago, Canada was taking in political refugees? Perhaps a Canadian, other than PH, could answer that. I would not be suprised, Canada is a great country and would be likely to do so.
Yet another Rg, who ran away for a better life and seems to glorify the one he left behind!
Oh wait.
Still reading the telegraph.
Night Marcos.
Again, I think you are bang on.
PH himself, 6mos. ago said that he was brought from Arg in the 80's by his family because the government 'pirates' were stealing things, or something to that effect.
I put him in his mid to late 30's.
From his profile on FB, he was brought up and educated in a neighbourhood of poorer immigrant families, some in social housing.
I can imagine 30 years ago, as a visible minority with poor language skills, he had a tough time integrating. Esp. since adolescents can be very cruel to those who don't fit in.
According to “Ken Ridge” on here, Alex is an illegal immigrant.
Therefore, he could not engage in society or travel elsewhere, if he wanted to return to Canada where his family is.
Frustrating for him
A few years ago they were pressing to change their own official British history when almost agree with Argentina's claims to the territory.
So, in a few words the official British history about Malvinas was replaced by a booklet written by a couple of paid “historians”, lovely.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/7331547/Official-British-history-of-the-Falklands-War-is-considered-too-pro-Argentina.html
Thx for the article. It lays out clearly why the history was further researched and revised.
Very clearly the story reinforces the British position with proper research. No point giving the ENEMY room to cause doubt by vague reporting of events in the earlier versions.
If this is to be accepted as a document of events, the facts need to be accurate.
Sorry, MA , clutch at another straw :-)
Jan 02nd, 2013 - 04:55 am
www.google.co.uk/search?q=shooting+yourself+in+the+foot&hl=en&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=bPTjUOT9GIbS0QW594HYCw&sqi=2&ved=0CDgQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=644
2012 was a good year for the Falklands and we seem to have made some ground and are finding cracks in the Arg international position with CFK definatley not getting her way internationally. Expect tomorrow will bring the usual diretribe about “userpations” and an eviction that never was though! It would be boring if they didnt!
I,d laugh if Clarin, as a riposte, went and published the real Arg records of who left and who did not in 1833 though!
Oh wow! Talk about an own goal!
You probably don't even realise that you just negated most of your own arguments. Jajaja. But thank you for that link further proving that historical documents and proof exists to back up Britain's claim.
Don't you wish Argentina had historians with principles that helped a government to publish corrections to official histories when they have been proven wrong.
Here's a new English phrase for you: backfire.
Thanks again.
sadly not, hes just indoctrinated, deluded and totally naive about the world outside of his box.
That may be his intent when he is in a corner or has nothing to post otherwise, but he's a nut case.
Funny how each of his statements is designed to elicit a response instead of solidly make a case.
He lives for the attention and interaction on this forum.
He is obviously seriously indoctrinated though.
If TTT really knew Argentina, he would be able to discuss it in detail. He uses the 'I don't discuss domestic politics with foreigners' because he can't. If he did, the genuine residents in Argentina would see he is fibbing. Very early on he started discussing Buenos Aires with me but it was clear he had virtually no knowledge of the place so he claimed he 'didn't care' about BsAs and changed the subject.
The only thing TTT craves is attention. I find him amusing but don't take him seriously, he is not what he claims to be at all. He does stir up discussion, I'll give him that.
He is certainly a social outcast with a gigantic chip on his shoulder and severe paranoia. He doesn't date or go out much. But, then again, this could all be bollocks.
it doesnt me.
there about 3 or 4 fakes on here who all use the same rabidly-indoctirnated approach and none of them seem to represent anything anything other than their own naivety and delusions.
make the effort to read real Argentine posters tho~, not the odd malvenista loon, but the genuine Argentines who get swamped-out by these sock-puppets and paid stooges.
One just has to bear in mind that it is the sole purpose of these stooges to drwon-out the legitimate Argentine positions and feelings, and to bury the truth of history behind their own pitifully weal version of history.
You will, as perfectly shown in this thread, rarely if ever see them defend their stance or claims, but just obfuscate and side-track instead. THe entire “all british people suck” is just one proven method to sidetrack views away from the real issues and to bury legitimate discussion or the opinions of South Americans who are, from my experience, sick and tired of their politics being clouded by a ranty-whiny child posing as a legitimate government.
they're more sick and tired of malvinistas than anybody else is...and i dont blame them.
That might create some really interesting efforts from him to try and get a response. Heh heh heh. :-)
It would stop much of the diversions and Off topic posting.
Personally, I like the diversity of opinion but skip over the nutty posts.
The British did not stick their head in the sand and and reject the Falkland Islanders concerns did they?
The BBC website's version of history (1833) was wrong last year so I sent them an e-mail asking how well they had researched real history,asking them to withdraw or prove their comments. They withdrew certain innaccurate comments within 2 days of getting the e-mail, as they could not substantiate them, and acknowledged that I was right (I provided them with historical evidence provided on these posts).
In Argentina this would be unthinkable. Any academics in Argentina who question their country's history are condemned, as Argentines want to specfically avoid scrutinising history because they know it does not back up their sovereignty claim for the Falklands.
Your link Marcos, only shows that when British get the history of the Falkland Islands wrong and they are presented with evidence showing it is innacurate they correct it.
I presume this is the point you make, as this is what your link shows.
You understand too, that if we don't reply we'll get the attention-getting, “talk me down from the ledge” posts
:-)
I answer your comments because unless with you i can have a mature debate, i won't answer the comments of people who just insult, or make miserable comparisons. I have already wasted so much time with those people. You all know what i think about how our govt. should handle this question, i have already told you in different oportunities that the islanders should be included in the proposal of dialogue that c. f. k. expresses often before international forums. However, you all insist with not recognizing your own intransigence, you just complain about the hard decisions that our govt. took, but at the same time, you have always expressed that you are not disposed to talk about sovereignty which is the main problem, in fact, you have never manifested that in case that our govt. decides to dialogue with you, you would be disposed to discuss about the sovereignty, so, for you there is also just one outcome. C. f. k's govt. is absolutly temporal, like all the governments around the world, in fact she will leave office in 2015, and there won't be any constitutional reform, because shes doesn't have enough support in both chambers, so, my question is, if a next government proposes you to dialogue with you about different issues, would you accept to discuss about a fair solution for the sovereignty?.
On the other hand, i would like to know what were the real consequences in the islands, of the hard that our govt. took, i read on the news that despite the mesures of our govt., the isladns are going through a prosperous economic moment, am i correctly informed?. Maybe some day, you learn to have enough intellectual honesty in order to discuss about politic issues, that day, you'll recognize that actually both parts aren't acting correctly in some aspects. The solution for the sovereign conflict, which is the main problem, can depend mostly on the wishes of just one of the parts.
As I said, it's a moot point. CFK ( read: Argentine Government) does not want to include the Islanders in any “dialogue”, and has not responded to them.
All your hypothetical scenarios are non- starters.
You sound desperate to have the FI surrender their SELF-Determination for something less. Why would they?
They, alone, should decide their own future.
Thanks for all of your support.
And BTW werent some Uruguayans expelled in the 1833 incident?
So Falklanders stand to for a one man invasion to recover our soveriegnty. Please dont shoot him. He is very old and is called Pepe. Just give him a nice flower garden to cultivate and hell be happy
Please read it again and answer honestly. This is where we are today - you do not sit down and discuss peace and theories with a bully when he is jumping all about threatening and harassing your life!
As to what has CFK achieved - yes our economy is fine, Oil Development is now getting underway in 2014 in a big way. Tourism is under threat but despite CFK it is continuing and large ships are calling in here.
CFK has made life more difficult here and more expensive in some ways and yes in some aspects developments like in Tourism are limited because of her attitude.
But we do not give in to Blackmail - that is what she fails to understand.
What CFK has achieved is she has united the people of the Islands - young and old - into a deep dislike and distrust of your people and your country - one which will take many years to forget.
I repeat- CFK said she wants to just sit and talk with Sov not on the Agenda - The Islands have said they will sit down and talk without Sov on the agenda - she refuses to accept their invitation - this is a FACT!
Vive l'intransigence!
What you mean by intransigence, Axel, is that we do as you want!
lsn't going to happen,
we will not do as you want.
This is OUR land, NOT yours & you have NO RIGHTS here.
Therefor dear Axel, we will NOT “negotiate” our Sovereignty.
l don't think you're getting the message, poor Axel.
lf you like l will repeat it everyday just for you? no?
Yes, you are correct, for us there is only one outcome when it comes to Argentine belligerence & colonisation-we don't want you, Argentina.
But have a good evening anyway, Axel.
Like islander1 says, the Falkland Islands Government is ready to talk to the CFK Government whenever she wishes. She even has (unless she through it away) a letter from our government requesting such a meeting. She refuses to acknowledge our government. What's she afraid of? It's only talk.
There are many times when permission is necessary from the Falklands for some activity that the Argentine Government would like to engage in (planning permission for the Arg cememtery, flight permissions, discussions about another air carrier, etc). CFK's Government sends such permission requests to the UK Government every time. Do you know what happens (I hope you're reading this too Commander)? Every time it happens the UK Government refers the matter to the Falklands Government to be handled, quite rightly, by us directly.
Your president is playing a dumb game of pseudo-ignorance. Wake up!
Psst............ dont talk to him while his missus is around or la Topalansky will have a hissy fit and go into hysterics with CFK and hit old Pepe with a frying pan
We're only too happy to continue to grow our commerce links with Uruguay. A scheduled flight from Monetvideo would be nice too.
I really thought CFK was going to stop the LAN flights last January. Remember? That was when she was off on her last summer medical crisis. we have an alternate ready for if and when that does happen.
Maybe you should talk to Sr Lopez Mena of BQB airlines. He is a businessman who would sell his soul to the Devil if he could make a profit on the deal
Round and round we go :-)
Joe just to progress with an idea. There are seven quite new Bombadier aircraft sitting on the tarmac at Montevideo airport as the result of the bankcruptsy of the national airline PLUNA on which the Uruguayan govt owes U$D137million to the Scotia Bank plus interest. The govt is trying to form a cooperative from the dismissed staff and they are strapped for cash. I think the Bombadier has five hours flying time but would have to check on that. Might be a germ of an idea to put to FIG? maybe?
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/9776580/David-Cameron-must-return-Falklands-to-Argentina-Cristina-Kirchner-demands-in-open-letter.html
This from the BBC about the 30 year rule release of official documents from 1982 was fascinating to hear. Nicholas Ridley virtually giving Argentina the Islands, which of course, the Argentines couldn't wait for, behaving like a spoilt kid in a toy shop. www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01pgksh
For the Malvinistas, if you are SO SURE of your claim to the Islands, then go to the ICJ with your irrefutable proof. ie, put up or shut up. Otherwise, leave the Islanders alone, they have done no harm to Argentina.
A new troll suddenly appears!
A co-ordinated “attack”, or has “Sussie” returned with new name??
Yawn. Falk off, troll!!!
Happy Anniversary Falklanders.
Particularly vile, then.
Only these inhuman pigs could think this way.
First landing:
Britain 1690
Spain 1767
Argentina 1820
You are not first!
First claim of sovereignty:
Britain 1690
Spain 1767
Argentina 1820
You are not first!
First settlement:
Britain 1766
Spain 1767
Argentina NEVER
You are not first!
First to take to ICJ:
Britain 1955
Argentina NEVER
You are not first!
First to take to hold a referendum:
Britain 2013
Argentina NEVER
You are not first!
Oh hang on a minute.
First to militarily expel an entire settlement by force:
Spain 1770
Britain NEVER
So Spain got across the line for a first.
But not Argentina, so still no first.
So great name. Hope you keep posting with so I keep reminding you why you are indeed not first.
They are not your lslands.
They are ours & we don't have to rent them from anyone because WE own them, NOT you.
Can't even invent their own history properly.
If your claim is so solid why don't you prove it by putting your money where your mouth is and take it to the International Court of Justice?
You won't because of these simple facts:
In 1833 Argentina did not exist. The United Provinces of the River Plate set up an illegal MILITARY penal colony on the British territory of the Falkland Islands. Said UP soldiers mutinied and murdered their commanding officer, raped his wife, and HMS Clio then turned up and removed these dangerous men, who were a threat to the peaceful colony that had been on the Islands for several years prior to 1833.
These colonists happily stayed under British rule. No British military presence stayed on the Islands after the illegal UP troops were removed.
The UP did NOTHING! In other words they accepted the situation.
Charles Darwin described the people of the Falklands in his diary during his voyage on the Beagle in the 1835, who according to your twisted view of history were expelled. How could he describe them if they weren't there?
So in short the Falkland Islands have NEVER been Argentine.
You DIDN'T inherit them from Spain. It's impossible for you to have. Why? Because the UK and Spain shared joint sovereignty until the 1840's when Spain dropped it's claim and SALUTED the British flag in recognition of British sovereignty.
Spain REFUSED to recognise the UP's independence, then refused to recognised Argentina's independence UNTIL the 1860's!
So Spain had already RELINQUISHED sovereignty PRIOR to recognising Argentina as an independent country, so as I said it's impossible for Spain to have left you something that didn't belong to them in their 'will'.
There has NEVER been an indigenous population on the Falklands. The original colonists and their decendants have lived on the Falklands for nearly 200 years. So it is THEIR land, not the UK's and certainly not Argentina's.
The ICJ will abide by the UN Charter: self- determination. That's why you won't take it to the ICJ! FACT!
I remember about michael summer's letter before the u. n, when he proposed argentina to sit and discuss with them about different issues. However, c. f. k. doesnt include the govt. from the islands in the proposal of dialogue that she asks the u. k before int. forums, and i think it's a big mistake. While it is true that all the u. n. resolutions have always asked arg. and the u. k. to find a peaceful and negotiated solution for this dispute, and never included the govt. from the islands as a third part, i have always thought that beyond what the u. n. manifests respecting this question, our govt. should dialogue with the islanders, and you know that i have said it in all my comments. Anyway, it's necesary to indicate that summers's proposal doesn't include the problem for the sovereignty, which is the main conflict, so, i say AGAIN that for your side, there is also just one outcome. In the same way that c. f. k. has never manifested that she would be disposed to dialogue with the govt. from the island about sovereignty, your side has never manifested either that they would discuss with the argentine govt. in order to find a fair solution that respects the wishes and the interests of the islanders, and the rights that are claimed by argentina, so, accept it or not, the three parts are not acting correctly. I'm really glad to know that despite the hard decisions that our govt. took for the islands, the economy in that place is going fine, but we all should ask our govt. to chnage their attitudes, and try to find together a final solution for the sovereignty that satisfies all the parts. That day, we won't see any hard decison taken by arg., and we won't se either any act provocation by the u. k.
The sticking point appears to be KFC's lack of desire to talk to the islanders. No one else is acting improperly. PLEASE MAKE SOME SENSE. Thanks.
If you could prove that Argentina had any strong case to sovereignty other than saying 'it's ours' fair enough, but its based on saying a guy from the USA in 1820 visited and said' its ours', or a guy born in France in 1928 says its ours (even though he agreed it was also British territory), fine but there is no strong case for Argentine sovereignty over the Falkland Islands , so the Islanders actually born in the Islands are not going to negotiate sovereignty with a nation with no birthrights in the Islands.
To put it simply,why should Falkland Islanders born on the islands have sovereignty negotiations with people who were not born on the Islands?
To Cement their claim the Spanish then invaded our settlement and forcibly evicted the British settlers............
Just what the Argentines bleat on about us doing now.
To myself, the killer argument about the Falklands is this - all these events took place 180 years ago. It is stupid for Argentina to try and claim the islands again after such a long period of time. All they would be doing is punishing the people who live their now for the imagined sins of their ancestors.
Argentina itself has grown through settlement of new lands and no longer has the same boundaries as in 1833. Most people in the Falklands can trace back their heritage in the islands longer than many or even possibly most Argentines can in South America.
The Falklanders want to be left alone, and the UK will back the wishes of the islanders up, by force, if need be.
CFK is grandstanding to whip up popular support for a govt that is failing, and presciding over a country facing major economic and social crises, so she picks a fight with us to distract the people of Argentina.
Argentina will never get it's hands on the Falklands or their inhabitants, and she knows it. All she is doing is blowing hot air.
Wrong again, Axel.
Of course there is only one outcome for us.
They are OUR lslands NOT yours, so we have no intention of “negotiating” our Sovereignty with the Argentine government.
So glad that you, at last realise this.
Good, we're making some progress.
And it is a fair solution, dear Axel, it respects our wishes & re-inforces the fact that the Argentine Government & nation have NO RIGHTS here!
Thank you, Axel.
Respecting the historic aspects, i said i many oportunities that actualy both parts tell only what is convenient for them, i have never believed in our official history, thats' why i have decided to investigate about the veracity of the arguments of both parts of the conflict, in an article published yesterday in mercopress, which headline is, brief history of the falklands since....., i explain in my comment 9 what i think about the arguments of both countries.
In relation to the actual situation of the conflict, i respect what you think about it, but i dont agree with mostly you said in your comments. The solution for this conflict can't depend mostly on the wishes of just one of the parts, specialy when the u. n has never invoked self determination for this cause, like it did for others colonial situations, beside, it has always considered the malvinas-falkland cause like a special colonial situation, and never included the islanders as a third part in the conflict, all the u. n. resolutions asked arg. and the u. k. to find a negotiated and peacefeul solution for this conflict, we can't ignore that the sovereignty is the main problem. Anyway, beyond what the u. n. manifests respecting this cause, i have always said also that our govt. should propose the govt. from the islands to dialogue with them, and try to find a solution for the sovereign conflict. In the same way that i have always expressed that c. f. k's govt. commits a mistake, because she doesn't propose the govt. from the islands to dialogue with them, in order to find a fair solution for all the parts, the govt. from the islands is not acting correctly either, i know that you don't acept this, but the point is that they have never expressed that they would be disposed to dialogue with our govt., in order t find a fair solution for the sovereign conflict, so, acept it or not, they are being as intransigent, as the part that they accuse.
“when the u. n has never invoked self determination for this cause,”
Ok Axel:
This is a quote from UN resolution 2065.
” bearing in mind the provisions and objectives of the Charter of the United Nations and of General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) and the interests of the population of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas); ”
The provisions and objectives of the Charter of the United Nations do include Self -Determination.
It clearly states here ' bearing in mind the provisions and objectives of the Charter of the United Nations'.
It does not say ' ignoring the provisions and objectives of the Charter of the United Nations'.
It also does not say 'bearing in mind the provisions and objectives of the Charter of the United Nations except for that of self-determination.'
The provisions and objectives of the Charter of the United Nations do include Self -Determination.
So can you explain Axel, how you claim that the UN has refused the right of self-determination for this case when the Charter of the United Nations definately includes the right to self determination, and does anything in the part of the resolution I have not quoted justify your statement which I have quoted at the top of this post?
I read planty of resolutions from the u. n., and there is not any of them which expresses that self determination must be applied for this cause, in fact i read others resolutions about different colonial situations where self determination was invoked, if you don't believe me, you can search them on the website of the u. n. On the other hand, you'll see that there is not any resolution which expresses: application of self determination for the malvinas-falkland cause, like it happens with others colonial situations. Beside, none resolution includes the islanders as a third part. Anyway, i don't reject your argument, because what you say about resolution 1514, and resolution 2065 is true. But, in the case of resolution 1514, in the same way that it includes self determination, in it's artcile 2, article 6th reffers to territorial integrity, which is one of the bases of our claim.
For being honest, i have always thought that the resolutions should be more specific, they should say if self determination is applicable or not, otherwise they might be opened to different interpretations.
On the other hand, i have always thought that if the u. n has never asked the u. k to return the islands to arg., and asked both nations to find a negotiate and peaceful solution for this dispute, taking into account resolutions 2065 , and 1514 and the principles of the charter of the u. n., it means that the wishes of the islanders, and the claims by arg. must be taken into account, in order o find a solution, not just the wishes of the population from the islands.
I think you are intelligent and open to ideas unlike some of your rg colleagues on these blogs. For the past 40 years Britain has tried to divest itself of the remnants of empire on the basis of self determination. The falklanders are a self sustaining independent community who are entitled to choose thier way of life on the islands they have lived on for many generations. It is THIER wishes for thier future which count, nobody elses
If Scotland next year decides to split off from the UK in next years referendum, thier decision will be respected. If parts of Scotland such as the Shetland Islands wish to reman part of the UK that should be respected too
As for your compatriots name calling the Brits pirates and mutineers the Pitcairn Islanders certainly were and all 49 of thier descendants. So the ponderous over salaried members of the UN c24 DECOLONIZATION COMMITTEE endlessly pontificates about thier decolonization. To whom may I ask? There was nobody there when they landed. Bit like the Falklands dispute reduced to absurdity
Try reading the UN Charter if you are looking for self determination.
Though considering how you so quickly pass by article 2 of Resolution 1514 and think it is nullified by article 6 regarding territorial integrity tells me this post won't change much.
At least we know you have no legal training whatsoever.
“article 6th reffers to territorial integrity”
Axel-there are 5 other articles before that which appear to support the Islanders.
Do the United Nations disregard these 5 and prefer the 6th?
Also what Axel clearly doesn't understand is that this article regarding territorial integrity is not applicable. There are plenty of examples of decolonisation after this declaration where a new country could have been said to disrupt territorial integrity. Singapore and Brunei spring to mind.
It is very common for simple minded people to assume that proximity denotes continuity. And I'm not even going to go into the fact that Chile was once he closest country to the islands and not Argentina.
The amount of importance placed on territorial integrity as a legal doctrine is overblown. It has never been used, not even in the case of Kosovo or South Sudan. However self determination has been used plenty of times.
Should this ever get to the ICJ (doubtful unless done unilaterally), territorial integrity will be quickly dismissed as having little impact.
I have always thought that maybe self determination is applicable for the population from the islands, and for absolutly every people in the world. But for being honest, i have always had doubts in the case of the malvinas-falkland cause, firstly because the u. n has always considered this case, like a special colonial situation, in fact i suggest you reading the statemenet by a councellour from the islands, norma edwards, who complained bofore the u. n. about the way that the decolonization committe considers this cause, and about the lack of application of self determination for the population from the islands, it is very interesting, you can search it in the newsarchive of this website, the date is june 24th 2010.
Anyway, if the u. n has never asked the u. k to return the islands to arg., and asked both countries, arg. and the u. k to resume the negatiations, in order to find a peaceful solution, i think it's because actualy the wishes of the islanders, and the claims by arg. must be taken into account. The u. k. and the govt. from the islands must understand once and for all that discussing about sovereignty, doesn't implicate in absolut a total cession of sovereignty to arg., because that's not what the u. n asks both nations, however it's not imposible to find a fair solution that respects the wishes of islanders, and the claims by arg.
Your thinking is a bit woolly today
Lets get this straight
The Falklands are a small independent nation and if they want to continue thier association with UK thats thier affair
Argentina has no rights over thier land or thier destiny
The Argentine govt wont even talk to the islanders
Yes there are areas of mutual interest, mineral resources, fisheries, airlinks etc which could be profitably developed to the mutual interest of both countries
But when you deny the Falklanders thier right to exist (now where have I heard that phrase before?)
Argentina will not take thier claim to The ICJ in the Hague Perhaps its time for the Falklanders to do just that and get a ruling
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