Saturday, January 19th 2013 - 03:16 UTC

Canada’s new plastic banknotes with the wrong maple leaf

The Bank of Canada has barked up the wrong maple tree with its new plastic banknotes, using a foreign Norway maple leaf as the emblem on the notes instead of the sugar maple that the country has on its national flag, an eagle-eyed Canadian botanist says.

The Norway maple was imported from Europe and is now also common in North America.

Botanist Sean Blaney who tracks Canadian plants spotted the mistake: on the right the sugar maple

The untrained eye might not at first spot the difference between the maple leaf on the new 20, 50 and 100 dollar bills and the North American sugar maple.

But it is clear to Sean Blaney, a botanist who tracks plants for the Atlantic Canada Conservation Data Centre in New Brunswick, and who brought it first to the attention of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.

”The maple leaf (on the currency) is the wrong species“ he said, adding that the Norway maple has more lobes or sections and has a more pointed outline than the sugar maple, and the lobe that rises in the centre is shorter than the sugar maple's.

The Norway maple was imported from Europe and is now also common in North America. Blaney said it was probably the most popular tree along streets in central and eastern Canada.

”It has naturalized to Canada,“ he said. But it's not the grand sugar maple.

The central bank said the image on the new bills was purposefully designed not to represent any specific species but rather to be a combination of various kinds.

”It is not a Norway maple leaf. It is a stylized maple leaf and it is what it ought to be,“ said Bank of Canada currency spokesman Julie Girard.

She said the banknote designers created the image with the help of a dendrologist, a botanist who specializes in trees and shrubs.

”On the advice of this expert, steps were taken to ensure that the design of the leaf in the secondary window is not representative of a Norway maple,“ she said, adding that it was less rectangular than a Norway maple.

Blaney is not buying the explanation. ”I think it's just an after-the-fact excuse,“ he said.

”That may have been their intention, to not have it be a specific species of maple, but they should have drawn it differently if that were the case, because the maple that they've drawn is quite clearly a Norway maple.”
 

49 comments Feed

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1 Marcos Alejandro (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 06:59 am Report abuse
O Canada!
The True North strong and free!
From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for the real maple tree.
2 lsolde (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 09:54 am Report abuse
Does it really matter?
lts still a Maple Leaf.
Some people are just so pedantic.
Btw- the US currency has a pyramid on it. so?
3 Anglotino (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 10:31 am Report abuse
They look great and were invented and are printed by an Australian company.

Actually I drive past Note Printing Australia every day where these notes are produced. A great Australian invention and export.

The Queen appears on our $5 note (pink) and our green note is $100.

banknotes.rba.gov.au/ausbanknotes.html
4 lsolde (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 12:27 pm Report abuse
@3 Anglotino,
When l lived in Australia there were plans to produce a $200 note.
l think commonsense prevailed & it was quietly dropped.
Can you imagine a few people at a corner shop, buying a few groceries & all brandishing $200 notes?
The shopkeeper would be pulling his hair out. lol
5 Leo Hebert (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 12:46 pm Report abuse
The gentleman who pointed the reported fact has way too much time in his hands...
6 RedBaron (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 12:56 pm Report abuse
@4 - In Europe there are both Euro 500 and Euro 200 banknotes produced but very few people have ever see one of these because most shops have a notice saying they will not accept the notes (mostly because of the danger of counterfeiting, but also because of the problem of giving change).

As for the rights and wrongs of the maple leaf - this is a national banknote, not a serviette or Christmas cracker hat- If a job is worth doing, it's worth doing well.
7 Rufus (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 01:34 pm Report abuse
Possibly a nod to the 4% of the Canadian population who are of Norwegian descent?
8 Anglotino (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 03:05 pm Report abuse
@4 Isolde

I never heard that one. Interesting!

There was recent talk of retiring the $100 note leaving $50 as the highest. I'll admit I rarely see green notes in my wallet as I use a debit card for larger purchases. Also they reckon many of the $100 are “missing”. Their theory is that as all government payments including the pension are means tested that many retirees have stashed their cash away under the mattress to get full payments and benefits.

Inflation in Australia is rather benign and other than going decimal we have never redenominated. Less reason for big notes.

@6 Redbaron

The reason for the €200 and €500 notes was to increase the popularity as a reserve and cash currency in foreign countries to displace the US$. €1 million would be approximately 1/5 the space of US$1 million.

Thankfully Australia has no desire to emulate this and is happy to have it used as a currency in 3 relatively small and and unimportant foreign countries (and 42% of Antartica technically LOL).

Added to this, these notes have never been properly forged and I haven't ever seen a fake Aussie dollar in my life.
9 Terence Hill (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 05:59 pm Report abuse
Oh! well does it mean we'll have to turn over a new leaf?
10 JohnN (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 06:49 pm Report abuse
Hahaha...tempest in a maple-syrup pot! Funny to hear Julie Girard of Bank of Canada say ”It is not a Norway maple leaf. It is a stylized maple leaf and it is what it ought to be,“ - reminds me of Monty Python's dead parrot sketch! (www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE)

No problem with stylized or Norway maple leaf but most importantly, our Queen of Canada adorns our currency and many of our postage stamps: farm9.staticflickr.com/8163/6983098880_7771a2b449_o.jpg

Constitutional monarchies are well-represented at the top of the UN's Human Development Index and are very progressive. Actually, Norway is a constitutional monarchy too, along with other HDI top countries Australia, Denmark, Netherlands, New Zealand, Spain, Sweden, UK!

Interesting also that the Norway Maple is also classed as a British tree too, and this guide introduces the tree as: “A commonly planted street tree with leaves that looks much like the maple that is pictured on the Canadian flag.”:
www.british-trees.com/treeguide/maples/nbnsys0000003192
11 Marcos Alejandro (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 07:36 pm Report abuse
In a few words Canada enjoys a Norwegian leaf and a German queen on their bill :-)))))))))))))
I love my beautiful Argentina even more.
12 briton (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 08:11 pm Report abuse
oh come on,
we all make mistakes do we not,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
just dont tell pirate hunter and marcos,
you may well be shot at dawn
without a last 20, note to smoke .lol.
13 lsolde (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 08:50 pm Report abuse
@11 Marcos,
Thats because we are just one happy family, Marcos.
Canada, UK, Germany, just three out of many stable prosperous countries.
Don't think Argentina is in that family.
You could be, if you tried.
That you are not, is entirely your own fault.
14 toooldtodieyoung (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 09:11 pm Report abuse
2 lsolde

To me and you, yeah, a maple leaf is a maple leaf. But to Canadian's, it's one of those things that makes Canadian you know???

It's like, it's like...... I don't know, it's like having afternoon high tea in England and serving coffee instead of tea.... you know? You just don't do it.

So I can see why the Canadian's are getting all bent out of shape about it. It's like running the wrong flag up the flag pole and then saluting it.

I mean money is another extension of your country isn't it. We, as british wouldn't stick the Queen of Norway on our money because she isn't British....................

I don't think I'm explaining this very well am I?

I leave it there.
15 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 12:08 am Report abuse
Not a big deal to us in Canada.
Being a banknote carrying the Official symbols of Canada, it should be done right, though.
Someone at the mint should be “talked to”.

Could have been worse - could have had a Tim Horton's donut instead of the leaf.

Just glad they didn't replace our beloved Queen with the odious visage of Mila Mulroney!
16 Marcos Alejandro (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 12:16 am Report abuse
13 lsolde “Thats because we are just one happy family”

Yes, like in Belfast rioting over a flag?
Not wonder James joined our beautiful Argentina.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-13780144
17 LEPRecon (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 12:23 am Report abuse
@15 - TTT

One of the things I miss most about no longer living in Canada is Timmy's. Used to stop by every day and buy a dozen doughnuts for the guys at work, and a bagel with cream cheese for myself.

The thing that I don't miss - is that no one could make a decent cup of tea! Many North Americans don't understand the difference between hot water (a definite no when making tea) and boiling water (a must when making tea).

However, like many people have commented on here, if you are going to use a maple leaf on the official currency of the country, why didn't they use the same maple leaf that is on the flag?

It's not rocket science, but of course, I'll bet the central bank brought in designers who thought this design would look 'cooler' than the traditional maple leaf. And I also bet they paid them a fortune too!

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
18 JohnN (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 01:47 am Report abuse
Ah, the lament of my British grandparents about Canada - couldn't get decent tea in the restaurants.

Time marches on, but perhaps no closer to really getting the right sort of tea, is the bigger effort to brew better tea. Even Tim Hortons is advertising its efforts at a better tea. (www.timhortons.com/ca/en/menu/specialty-and-steeped-tea.html)

Well, also interesting that Canada's Tim Horton's doughnut-coffee chain (owned by Americans - whats new?) apparently has 200 locations in Ireland but only one in UK.
(www.thestar.com/travel/europe/article/946848--tim-hortons-signs-beckoning-fans-in-jolly-old-england)

As for our $20 dollar maple leaf, that would be too easy to use same as on flag. Wouldn't provide a career to several Canadian Mint officials in dreaming up new designs.

However, interesting to see that last spring, there were yet earlier issues about our $20 note - naked women and Twin Towers:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2141825/Canadas-new-20-dollar-naked-women-Twin-Towers-it.html

Don't laugh too hard, the guy in the photo holding the $20 note is Mark Carney - the guy now who is coming over in July to be Governor, Bank Bank of England.
19 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 05:54 am Report abuse
@01 Mark

“O Canada!
The True North strong and free!
From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for the real maple tree.”

Lol, Mark Alexander.

Looking to make fun of us, you went for the “low hanging fruit” and got a leaf.
20 lsolde (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 10:34 am Report abuse
@16 Marcos,
lf Argentina is as beautiful as you say, then why do you want someone else's land?
No, the Falklands are NOT yours, so you needn't bring up that ridiculous argument.
l think that your country is just plumb greedy.
You want parts of Chile, too.
You also illegaly occupy parts of Paraguay & it sounds like you'd love to get your thieving hands on ALL of Uruguay.
ls there no end to your dishonesty?
Maybe you'd like to help yourself to Bolivia as well?
21 Marcos Alejandro (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 04:30 pm Report abuse
Señora lsolde
We don't have any territorial dispute with our Spanish/Portuguese speaking neighbors.
We only have a dispute with an English speaking nation in far away Europe 14000 km away.
Malvinas belong to the British only in planet Windsor, in planet Earth belongs to Argentina.
22 briton (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 08:02 pm Report abuse
21 Marcos Alejandro
The joker of the pact , says ?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
We don't have any territorial dispute with our Spanish/Portuguese speaking neighbours.
[ totally untrue ] if not for the Falklands, argentina would almost certainly be at odds with one of them,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

We only have a dispute with an English speaking nation in far away Europe 14000 km away.
[again, totally un true, ]
You are in dispute with your very own greed and incompetence …
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Malvinas belong to the British only in planet Windsor,
[again, totally untrue,=
Malvinas does not exist, and there is no planet called Windsor,]
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

planet Earth belongs to Argentina.===

again totally untrue,
argentina does not own the earth, again typical argentine arrogance,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
To all the decent intelligent sophisticated people reading this blog,
You must be totally laughing and embarrassed to listen to 21 Marcos Alejandro

What a total embarrassment to the hard working decent argentines,

No wonder CFK will n ever have nothing, accept the loyally of her very own silly brain dead indocronoughts.

Long live the great, British .lol.

.
23 lsolde (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 08:46 pm Report abuse
@22 briton,
Nicely sums it all up. Thank you.
@21 Marcos,
As you well know, 14,000km has got nothing to do with anything.
BsAs were & still are thousands of kilometres from the Falklands.
Your country was only a small piece of land around the capital, until you started moving southwards, killing & stealing as you did so.
You moved towards us(we didn't move)& now you are a few hundred kms from our coast & you claim proximity.
You've had plenty of disputes with your spanish speaking neighbours, so stop lying about that one.
Finally, the Windsors have very little to do with all this, as you well know.
You do NOT own the Falklands(there is no such place as malvinas)& you NEVER have owned them.
You can talk, argue & bluster til your dying day but you NEVER will own OUR lslands.
24 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 08:50 pm Report abuse
@21 Mark

“Señora lsolde
We don't have any territorial dispute with our Spanish/Portuguese speaking neighbors.
We only have a dispute with an English speaking nation in far away Europe 14000 km away.
Malvinas belong to the British only in planet Windsor, in planet Earth belongs to Argentina.”

Mark, the truth is, you DO have a dispute with Chile, but you don't have the balls or the military to push them around anymore.

The only people you feel you can push around and get away it, are the Falklanders - 3,000 people and Big Brother too far away.

Pragmatic, but obvious cowardice.
25 Pirat-Hunter (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 09:01 pm Report abuse
The vritish queen wasn't Kanadian and she is on most of the bill, Islas Malvinas Argentina to the vrits is some vritish firm and so the world turns once again, now every inglish society becoming the comedians world hub, Going from jokers to clowns is as simple as not noticing the foreign lady's face on the bill. No sir! I couldn't make this stuff up, stupidity is far more creative then imagination, where is reality check when you need him? Australians should be happy to know that their own queen on the 5 dollar bill isn't Australian neither.
www.vuhelp.net/currency-rates/37884-australian-dollar-currency-rate-pakistan-1-september-2012-a.html
26 Anglotino (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 09:24 pm Report abuse
I only see the Queen of Canada on the Canadian $20 bill.

And I just checked and could only see the Queen of Australia on our $5 bill.

This post bought to you by the letter 'B'.
27 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 09:50 pm Report abuse
@25 PH ALEX VARGAS - fake Argie in Canada

I love it that you have to see “our” Queen every day, the Queen of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Bahamas, Ghana, and many more in the Commonwealth of Nations.

Every time you use Canadian currency, or stamps, or enter a Federal Bldg or School - there she is!! Your little nieces and nephews know who the Queen is when they see her picture, and they love her as “our Queen”!

When your parents sought refuge in Canada, bringing their snot-nosed bad-tempered brat with them, they were happy to embrace Canada and the Queen. They would have seen her smiling, benevolent face at the airport, welcoming them to the safety of their new home. And damned pleased to be here they were, too!!

and then there is you - the malignant little cancer in their midst.

You make yourself miserable, nobody else.
28 JohnN (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 10:41 pm Report abuse
Yes, our constitutional monarchy has served Canada rather well, and when Prime Minister Trudeau thought about taking Canada into republicanism back in the early 1970s, the minority of Canadians who seemed sympathetic to the idea lived in Québec and nowhere else.

More recently, when our current government restored the Royal moniker to our armed forces, most Canadians also onside with that. My 90-year old mum who served with the Royal Canadian Air Force in London during the war is particularly pleased.

To clarify, the Queen is not on all Canadian currency, coins or stamps. However, the Queen does feature on the obverse side of some rather high-value Canadian coinage, including a 2007 $1 Million coin:
www.mint.ca/store/mint/learn/million-dollar-coin-1600006
and our recently-released 10 kg, $100,000 coin:
www.mint.ca/store/mint/learn/10-kilo-coin-6500002
29 Rufus (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 01:02 am Report abuse
@28 John

Love the million dollar coin, but seeing as it only weighs slightly less than I do (and I'm not exactly small or light) even ignoring the value, it's not what I'd call small change...

“ Triganic Pu has its own very special problems. Its exchange rate of eight Ningis to one Pu is simple enough, but since a Ningi is a rubber coin six thousand eight hundred miles along each side, no one has ever collected enough to own one Pu. Ningis are not negotiable currency, because the Galactibanks refuse to deal in fiddling small change. From this basic premise it is very simple to prove that the Galactibanks are also the product of a deranged imagination.”
30 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 01:54 am Report abuse
@28 JohnN

Thanks, John. You're correct, the Queen is not on all stamps or currency. I was just making a quick point to Alex Vargas. He would hardly notice anything he read was accurate or not.

You have come up with some fun links, lately!
31 Marcos Alejandro (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 01:57 am Report abuse
Isolde “You can talk, argue & bluster til your dying day but you NEVER will own OUR lslands”
Since when are we claiming Britain?
No way we want that island full of rag heads, thanks anyway.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=so6MctCnQ5M
32 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 02:50 am Report abuse
@31 Mark Alexander

“No way we want that island full of rag heads, thanks anyway.”

Nice racist remark, MARK.

And enough silly buggers about which islands - bit of childish game, and more than a little played-out now.
33 Anglotino (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 03:39 am Report abuse
@32 Troy

Nice to see his true colours showing. And this from someone who is an immigrant.

And it's funny all this talking about claiming islands. Which country defines itself by being an island nation? Certainly not Argentina.
34 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 04:13 am Report abuse
@33Anglotino

I am actually shocked to see how many of the trolls do readily show their “true colours”.
Racism seems to come easily to them - a common trait.

Commonplace for them to criticise people as “Jewish”, “Ragheads”, or “Homosexuals”.

These hating trolls have no respect for other people.
35 Marcos Alejandro (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 05:31 am Report abuse
“Victoria was a town of aliens and immigrants. Racism was dealt freely not only to the Native inhabitants but others of different creed and colour as well. African Americans, Chinese, Eastern Europeans, Japanese, and the Hawaiian “Kanaka”, were all groups who experienced the racism of the white settler and his administration”

web.uvic.ca/vv/student/police/other_racism.htm
36 Anglotino (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 06:08 am Report abuse
@35 Marcos

Wow I will rarely call someone stupid and I won't start now but boy do you really show the level of your intelligence on here.

Thank you very much for that quote.... FROM 1859.

EIGHTEEN FIFTY EFFING NINE

One hundred and fifty four years ago!

You surely make your country proud with your totally inability to articulate any sort of intelligent argument.

You have been CAUGHT out and now in a flush of embarrassment and in the rush to cover a comment which you can't retract you go on the defensive and fall back of the troll's favourite friend: tu quoque.

You are quite a despicable individual and all you have done now is compound your initial mistake. You probably wonder why you can never seem to make any headway in the world, but you really shouldn't. It is painfully obvious to all those that come across you that not only do you lack in intelligence, but that you lack any sort of moral code or standard. Your intellect is totally inadequate for the task you have set yourself on these forums. And without realising it you actually damage your own country's reputation all the while patting yourself on your own back with your amazing insightfulness and intellect.

Almost anyone can say something in the heat of the moment.

The true measure of a man is his ability to admit he has made a mistake, ask for forgiveness and move on.

The true measure of a coward is your post above.

1859… uneffenbelievable.
37 JohnN (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 02:29 pm Report abuse
“No way we want that island full of rag heads, thanks anyway.”

So what does it matter if there was historical racism in Victoria, and for that matter, still issues about racism in our city and country?

Racism is a difficult challenge, and its ironic that in British Columbia, one of the most difficult racist issues focused on would-be immigrants from India: the Komagata Maru incident of 1914:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komagata_Maru_incident

However, you believe that racism is acceptable, an opinion shared by many others in Argentina:

Racismo en la Argentina:
es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racismo_en_la_Argentina

SudamericaRacista2's channel:
www.youtube.com/user/SudamericaRacista2/videos

.
38 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 03:44 pm Report abuse
@Anglotino, JohnN

“However, you believe that racism is acceptable, an opinion shared by many others in Argentina”

It seems to be ingrained in them that they insult people as a group and thereby dismiss them as less than equal, or less than human. Easy to discard their concerns and their rights:

“Squatters, pirates, Criminals, Chileans, Brits, Jews, Thieves, Implants, Bolivians, Peruvians, Indigies,” etc etc.

All part of de-humanising a group to justify treating them without compassion or respect, or disregard them completely - a familiar theme we see on here.
39 briton (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 07:22 pm Report abuse
Isolde
he will never learn.
40 lsolde (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 09:47 pm Report abuse
He is so eaten up with hatred because his country was defeated & ejected in 1982.
They can't handle rejection & must win all the time.
Unfortunately life isn't like that.
You win some,
You lose some.
The measure of success is how you learn from your mistakes & move on.
malvinistas seem incapable of this.
Their problem, l have no sympathy for them or their ridiculous“claims”.
41 Marcos Alejandro (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 03:40 am Report abuse
37 JohnN “However, you believe that racism is acceptable”

Didn't say that, hey by the way “great job” sending two Canadians terrorists to Algeria. You see now why I don't like some of this radical nuts?
If you like them so much invite them over to your house not mine.

“Canadian 'co-ordinated' terrorist attack, says Algerian PM”

www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2013/jan/21/algeria-hostage-death-toll-rises-live-updates
42 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 04:27 am Report abuse
@42Mark

“37 JohnN “However, you believe that racism is acceptable”

Didn't say that, hey by the way “great job” sending two Canadians terrorists to Algeria. You see now why I don't like some of this radical nuts?”

Mark, you “didn't say that”, but your very public actions show clearly that you don't think it is wrong.

You cannot stereotype Canadians, either.

Not all Canadians are terrorists, just like not all Terrorists are Canadians. I'm sure some are Argentinian, or want to be.
Just ask “Pirat-Hunter” ALEX VARGAS.
43 Marcos Alejandro (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 04:41 am Report abuse
Did Ahmed Ressam crossed from BC or Bs As to kill Americans?

www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/10/24/terrorist-sentenced-millennium-plot/1655131/
44 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 05:58 am Report abuse
LOL!! Are you trying to imply that all Canadian citizens are collectively guilty for the actions of one individual, Mr. Ressam?
Are you really trying to say that Canada's government and her citizens export terrorism against their allies and fellow NATO members???
You're a bonehead!!

How about this little gem from Argentina:
“Anti-slavery demonstrators also condemned a recent verdict that acquitted 13 defendants involved in Argentina´s most emblematic case of human trafficking. The demonstrators were particularly criticial of the judiciary system for what they denounced as its complicity with criminal rings. ”
By your reasoning (lack of), all Argentinians are guilty of forcing foreigners into sex-slavery, aided and abetted by the Argentine Judiciary and other Argentine authorities.
What a morally corrupt people!!
www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/01/10/282752/argentineans-denounce-human-trafficking-slavelike-working-conditions/
45 briton (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 07:07 pm Report abuse
at least canada is ten time better than CFK and her bitter land,
46 JohnN (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 09:10 pm Report abuse
Grateful you explain how your comment, ”No way we want that island full of rag heads, thanks anyway.” might not be seen as racist?

Ressam was thwarted before killing anybody, unlike those (Argentines? Iranians?) responsible for killing 85 people in the AMIA bombing in 1984 in Buenos Aires. When will they be brought to justice?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMIA_bombing

.
47 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 23rd, 2013 - 02:06 am Report abuse
@john
Just over on the Argentine Armada thread, they are talking about the Argentine terrorists who conspired to sink a British ship at Gibraltar.
Sponsored by the Republic of Argentina, in other words, “state-sponsored terrorism”, Operacion Algeciras.

“According to the Buenos Aires media, Maximo Nicoletti the diver that almost sunk the Santisima Trinidad in September 1975 was finally caught by the Argentine Navy special anti-terrorist groups.
Following interrogations he changed sides and begun working for the military government and in 1982 was called to perform what was known as Operation Algeciras, a similar attack to the now sinking destroyer in Puerto Belgrano, but this time against a Royal Navy vessel when she docked at Gibraltar.
Nicoletti with other Navy agents and former Montoneros flew first to Malaga and then to Algeciras where they poised as fishermen. The Italian manufactured underwater mines were shipped to Madrid from Buenos Aires via the embassy.
The group waited for over a month and then Leander class frigate HMS Ariadne docked in Gibraltar but before any action, orders were to consult with Buenos Aires. However at the time the Argentine military were hopeful that diplomatic negotiations with the British through third parties would help freeze the situation in the occupied Malvinas Islands..
...But then, following the sinking of the cruiser ARA Belgrano by the submersible HMS Conqueror on May 3 the order was finally given by Admiral Jorge Anaya.
The attack was foiled because by then the Spanish police was on their tracks and had all their phone lines bugged and the Nicoletti team was arrested.”

en.mercopress.com/2013/01/22/cannibalized-falklands-war-argentine-destroyer-sinking-in-puerto-belgrano?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=aviso_comentarios#comments
48 lsolde (#) Jan 23rd, 2013 - 07:26 am Report abuse
@47 Troy Tempest,
l have brought this up before.
When the malvinistas rave on about the sinking of the Belgrano, they often rabbit on about it being outside of the Exclusion Zone(damned silly thing, if you ask me).l know it was for the benefit of neutrals, but its given these idiots some ammunition.
ln my opinion, enemy ships are fair game & can be sunk anywhere.
When its pointed out to them that Gibraltar is a long, long way from any “Exclusion Zone”, they just refuse to answer.
Everything must be ALL their way, OR its just not fair. plonkers
49 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 23rd, 2013 - 05:16 pm Report abuse
@48 Isolde

“ln my opinion, enemy ships are fair game & can be sunk anywhere”

Yes, quite right. I can understand sinking an enemies naval assets wherever they are, in time of war.

However, I was countering Mark's diversion about ALL Canadians being terrorists. My point being, although some terrorists have false links to Canada as a cover, or a refuge, Canada is not a Terrorist state, nor is it an exporter of State -sponsored terrorism like Argentina is.

There was never a DeclarAtion of War between UK and AR in 1982, however, they did invade the Falklands, and were aware that a naval task force was en route to confront them if necessary. Argentina sent out their Navy to meet the Brits in a possible, threatening, 'encirclement'. The Brits reacted to this with decisive action that scattered the enemy ships. Bear in mind that AR had already attacked British forces and occupied their territory militarily, without notice or provocation, and refused to withdraw.
On the other hand, AR planned and prepared the Gibraltar attack, and surreptitiously deployed their forces in Spain long before the attack on the Falklands. The AR civilian government abused their diplomatic status with Spain to sneak in weapons and explosives, and their operatives were essentially spies, posing as fishermen, they were deliberately not to be seen as military openly representing Argentina.
Any RN ship moored at Gibraltar, thousands of miles away from was no threat to Argentina and not engaged in hostile action towards them, and finally, not in a state of war against Argentina.
This was pure premeditated, State-Sponsored Terrorism on the part of Argentina, and certainly not a reaction to the British engaging a hostile enemy making aggressive manuevres or posturing.
The Argentinians, under AR Government orders, were arrested by Spain for acting illegally in their country against another government.

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