Saturday, January 19th 2013 - 04:30 UTC

Tourists arriving in Uruguay dropped 14% in first weeks compared to 2012

The number of tourists arriving to Uruguay in the first weeks of this summer season has dropped 14% compared to the same period a year ago, which represents 20.600 less, mostly Argentines and Brazilians, according to Benjamin Liberoff, Director of Tourism.

Long queues at the international bridges waiting to cross to Uruguay

Exchanging Argentine Pesos quite an expensive task

But those relaxing in the beaches seem far away from all the stress

“In the case of the Argentines the dissuasive measures adopted by the government in Buenos Aires helps to explain the situation and with the Brazilians, insufficient connectivity, which can be attributed to the closing down of Pluna (Uruguay’s national airline”, said Liberoff.

Nevertheless the Uruguayan official said that the Ministry of Tourism “values very highly the fidelity of Argentines and Brazilians whom despite the difficulties turned up” to the local resorts.

“The fall in numbers was anticipated and that is why we implemented some stimuli measures referred to the exchange rate, taxes, rebates on credit card expenditure on renting and hiring cars and some one-time bonuses for fuel”, pointed out Liberoff.

According to official Migration stats during the first twelve days of 2013 the number of people arriving in Uruguay was 189.488 compared to 197.866 in the same period a year ago. But these numbers also include returning Uruguayans and the net number of foreign tourists arriving was 20.600 less than the same period a year ago. The 20.600 missing is made up of 17.500 Argentines and 3.000 Brazilians.

But anticipating harder times ahead Deputy Minister of Tourism Antonio Carambula has been holding meetings with different representatives from the tourism industry to coordinate and promote the special incentives implemented by Uruguay to counter the barriers from the Argentine government.

The barriers from the Cristina Fernandez administration are mainly the so called ‘dollar clamp’ which severely limits the purchase of foreign currency by Argentines plus the fact that those using credit and debit cards overseas will have to pay an additional levy.

However that is not the whole story since the returning Argentines polled when they leave Uruguay had several complaints. Prices, the exchange rate, the cost of fuel and food and the delays at the border crossings, were the most common grievances.

Queues at the two main bridge-crossings and complying with all the paper work demanded meant tourists had to endure delays of 45 minutes to two hours with long lines of cars of over a kilometre.

Another issue was prices, anywhere from 60% to 100% the level in Buenos Aires aggravated by the exchange rate and the price of gasoline which is almost two dollars a litre in Uruguay.

Buying dollars in Argentina at the official price of 4.95 Pesos is a bureaucratic ordeal which includes ‘scanning’ from the tax revenue office AFIP and the Central bank, either of which can finally decide not to sell the greenbacks or most commonly grant a smaller sum.

This forces the Argentine tourists planning to travel overseas, mostly to neighbouring countries, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay and Uruguay, to buy dollars in the parallel market which usually operates at an average 50% dearer.

And if for some reason they don’t have the sufficient foreign currency and must sell the Argentine Pesos in neighbouring countries the exchange rate is in the range of 8 Argentine Pesos to the dollar.
 

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1 Anglotino (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 10:38 am Report abuse
Argentineans are complaining about the costs in Uruguay just proves my point that Argentina's standard of living is dropping. It's decline isn't relative but absolute. Argentineans can't afford to travel next door because it's too expensive.

This is only going to get worse.
2 ElaineB (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 12:31 pm Report abuse
Hoteliers and traders in Mar del Plata have also been complaining that Argentines are spending far less this year and staying for shorter breaks, typically four days. So I guess they can't afford holidays in Argentina either. Or maybe they are holding on to their money in anticipation of the situation getting worse.

This is the month Argentines usually flood Vina del Mar in Chile. It will be interesting to hear if there is a fall in numbers there. The usual complaint is that Argentines spend very little money in restaurants etc. and don't tip.
3 yankeeboy (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 01:10 pm Report abuse
A plane ticket from BA to MIA costs around 10,000-12,000 pesos! Then you figure a hotel ( prob hostel tho) and food is another 12,000 for a week stay. It costs them 4 months of ALL OF THEIR INCOME to pay for a week in the USA!
My friends started saving 2 years ago to come and visit me but they've all given up because every month the goal gets further away.
8/1 Peso in PDE now and
10/1 peso is around the corner
and there is no stopping this train
4 Sergio Vega (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 01:17 pm Report abuse
As I have watched on tv (I live very far from Viña) the Argentine tourist have arrived as usual this year to the Chilean central beaches even the problems they have with their Gvt. restrictions, USD prices and Chilean prices.....spending less than years ago and for shorter holidays, specially from the nearest provinces like Mendoza & San Juan....About numbers, I don´t have any figures yet...
5 imustbeamasochist (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 01:26 pm Report abuse
I spent last weekend in Montevideo-Punta del Este. In the not too distant past about 90% of the cars on the streets in Punta had Argentina license plates. This year, the number was closer to 20%.
6 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 03:31 pm Report abuse
@1

Bist du'ne Volltrottel?
T'es un gros abrouti?
Você é mesmo um otário?
Sos un pelotudo en serio?

You are the frgggin dumbest, least informed poster about Argentina in this forum. And that takes A LOT, A LOT of training and effort given the utter morons that find refuge here.

I'll be back monday, and your vacation will be over, antis.
7 reality check (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 03:37 pm Report abuse
Whereever your going, don't forget to take that gross appendage, you call a head with you!
8 andy65 (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 03:54 pm Report abuse
@Nostrolldamus the 8th You aint been missed you old dog so go with your Cristina and suck on titties
9 yankeeboy (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 04:12 pm Report abuse
Toby has been spending his vacation tearing down the new wall being put up around his house (slum) that he swore didn't exist in Mendoza.

www.lanacion.com.ar/1545863-mendoza-construyen-un-muro-para-separar-un-barrio-de-clase-media-de-una-villa
10 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 04:19 pm Report abuse
Only you antis, people that are Volltrottel (dim-wits, morons), abrutis (jerks, fools), otários (dumbasses, dickheads), pelotudos (assholes, imbeciles), could actually say with a straight face the following two (2) postulates in sequence, and not see the apodictic non-sequitur that ensues:

Postulate 1: Argentina is too expensive for foreign tourists, that is why people are not going (untrue), and why argie exports are expensive and imports cheap.

Postulate 2: Argentine living standards are declining in absolute terms against their neighbors and the whole world, which is why they can't afford to travel.

Think about it, half-brains. Cortical exercise will do you some good. I know its been a long two weeks without my uplifting noetic engagements, but think about the above.

How can a country become too expensive for foreigners to visit, and too inexpensive for its nationals to travel overseas. How can it become overvalued making exports difficult, and suffer a devaluation that lowers living standards.
You all are in effect saying that a devaluation is increasing value.

Or to put it terms you antis can understand, that when you are all at the short-bus playground and Anglotino and Yankeeboy jump on the seesaw, when Yankeeboy goes down, he claims he is also going up... or when Anglotino goes up he believes he can go down at the same time.

I gotta go you tards, think about it.
11 HansNiesund (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 04:28 pm Report abuse
@10

Tobias is back. Things must indeed be slow at the car wash.
12 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 04:32 pm Report abuse
I get enough stipend from a friend whom I helped last weekend to set up his summer stand for his business. Are you interested in some fine obsidian by any chance?
13 reality check (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 04:46 pm Report abuse
Let me guess? your feiend sells thesuarus, dictionaries and othe Lexicons and when business is slow, you memorise them to pass the time? you probably work on commision, nice little earner!
14 ChrisR (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 04:46 pm Report abuse
Nossy the VIII

The answer is very simple indeed.

1) AG citizens are frightened that (yet again) there is a coming financial disaster. All the indications point that way: ever more and increasing taxes on those who are providing the exports (farmers are taxed close on 75%) and inflation of almost 30%. This makes your exports very expensive indeed compared to only last year. Remember, exporters are supposed to be remunerated in pesos.

2) The ‘government’ restricts people from using USD for their own use, insisting that only AG pesos can be used. Uruguay got stung last year when TMBOA would not honour her own currency!

Why do you think, despite the giveaways by Pepe to encourage AG to come (lower rates of IVA, preferential rates in hotels, etc. which the locals cannot claim) that the AG pesos is now 8.8 to ONE USD in Punta? How many argies can afford that sort of drop in the value of their money?

It seems to me that you are the subject of the vitriol of your first paragraph.

Instead of spouting all the useless crap that you post on here a course in Economics 101 would be a real help to stop you looking a complete idiot.
15 yankeeboy (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 04:46 pm Report abuse
Toby, That is funny! Do you have jade too? How much of a bribe did he have to pay the customs officials to get it in?

Did you see the Lanacion article above? How can you have slums in the paradise of Mendoza? You din't lie to us by any chance did you?
Hmm
Rgs never lie to they?
Nah
16 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 04:48 pm Report abuse
See I knew you all missed me. Sorry I can't stay right now. I need to relax this weekend to recharge.

See you monday 8:30 hours. Enjoy your last weekend of argie-bashing without consequences.
17 yankeeboy (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 04:56 pm Report abuse
Wow Chris almost 9/1 in PDE!! That is incredible. T
he couple A$100 I keep in a drawer for when I land in BA is getting less and less everyday.
I won't be able to buy a coffee with it shortly!
Maybe I can bring 5lbs of sugar and live like a KING next time!
18 Shed-time (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 06:23 pm Report abuse
Is it at 10 pesos/$ yet?
19 briton (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 08:13 pm Report abuse
And its all CFK fault,

mmm.
20 Shed-time (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 09:22 pm Report abuse
I've personally never found argentine women very attractive. It's amazing what dulce de leche does to a lady.

That's probably why argentine men are so sour.
21 redpoll (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 11:32 pm Report abuse
Snotties off duty. Now searching the stores for paper hankies to mop up next weeks mucus and drivel hes going to spew next week
22 Anglotino (#) Jan 19th, 2013 - 11:39 pm Report abuse
Nostrolldamus

He's valiant, considering his disabilities, I'll give him that. And have to give him credit, he uses the short time available at an internet cafe (paid for by his “stipend”) to furiously bash away at a keyboard for our entertainment.

But alas, HE CAN'T ARGUE!

Actually he can't even use logic here either as his extensive economic knowledge shows..... oops I mean extensive LACK OF economic knowledge.

It would seem that according to his only referencing tool, the Thesaurus, that it is impossible for both foreigners to find Argentina expensive and for Argentineans to find foreign travel expensive.

In a normal country, yes! But then Argentina is not a normal country.

The Argentinean government supports an artificially high 'official' exchange rate thus making its exports more expensive and the country itself more expensive for tourists (economically considered an export).

But in countries that have a free floating exchange rate, the peso is low. So Argentineans find that no one wants their worthless currency and the exchange rate reflects this. Hence they get less for their peso and voilà everything is expensive.

A simple mathematical example will help those simpletons out:
Upon arrival in BA my US$1,000 is converted to A$4,951 at the OFFICIAL rate.
If I then travel to Uruguay my A$4,951 is then converted to US$618 at the MARKET rate.

Without spending a dollar I have lost 40% of my money.

So I guess this makes me then“friggin dumbest, least informed poster about Argentina in this forum”, an “utter moron”, a dim-wit, moron, jerk, fool, dumbass, dickhead, asshole, imbecile, oh and a retard!

Perhaps Nostrolldamus, perhaps.

And yet I am also right!

Which once again means you are not. A feeling I am making you more and more accustomed to.

Just because you are good at languages doesn't not mean you are logical or intelligent, something you continually prove again and again in post after post.

Especially when dealing with me!
23 Shed-time (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 12:00 am Report abuse
I'm still struggling with their ability to paste subjective opinions as objective fact, and their addiction to un-cited fallacies.

“Vernet's family had a house in Argentine with a placard on the wall so the falklands must be Argentine”
“73% of the population were forced into the ocean”
“The pope says half the world was ours”

... et cetera, et cetera.
24 Raven (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 12:18 am Report abuse
@ 22 Anglotino

Good speech!!! :)
25 you are not first (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 02:00 am Report abuse
Anglotino,

What are you doing in our land if you do not like it. Go back to your foggy, always cheap beer with chip and fish. I see you getting home sick. It is hard to see beauty with your eyes. Too old
26 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 06:10 am Report abuse
@22 Anglotino

Good speech.

Was somebody missing?

Is there some kind of language 'barrier'?
27 Anglotino (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 06:41 am Report abuse
@25 You are not first.

How cute! You came to Nostrolldamus's defence.

Hehe. But you are not the first to be so silly!

“What are you doing in our land if you do not like it.”

So in this first sentence you prove that you don't actually read any comments, just troll around spouting..... well nothing really if your previous posts are anything to go by. I'm not in Argentina. So how could I go home. I've never even been to Argentina, but I'd be best to buy my pesos in a neighbouring country first by the looks of it.

“Go back to your foggy, always cheap beer with chip and fish.”

Though not a beer drinker, I am partial to fish n chips. Though not sure where the fog is IN AUSTRALIA! Second fail, always assuming everyone is British.

“It is hard to see beauty with your eyes”

Actually I see it all around me in the most amazing country on Earth. What makes it even better is that it has the standard of living, the economic and societal indicators and the government that Argentineans aspire to and want so much.

Third fail.

But I'm so happy you decided to attack me personally. I mean you attacked my sentiments not my logic. You can't really argue that Argentina isn't becoming poorer.

Tobias is hardly a challenge which makes you no challenge at all.
28 Joe Bloggs (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 08:29 am Report abuse
22 Anglotino
Thunder from Downunder! LOL!

I couldn't believe Nostril was so bold as to even try that argument. Like most of the Malvinistas on here though, he rarely responds directly to my questions so I've grown tired of bothering with him. In fact I've grown tired of reading most of his posts but I saw the accolades you received from my loyal fans so it caught my attention.

Add to your answer the fact that wages are not even coming close to keeping up with the actual (not official) rate of inflation and Blind Freddy could see that it is expensive for inbound AND outbound tourism in Argentina.

What makes me laugh the most about all of these Malvinistas and their hypocritical claim is that they will not enter into any discussion about their own nation's history. The fact that their European ancestors took over a foreign land (the closest they come to any acknowledgement is when they say “what about England and Australia”) and wiped out most of the indigenous population. England and Australia openly acknowledge their actions and face up to it.

Reading their posts you could be mistaken for thinking that they are all native Americans. Calling us white and talking about all the bad things the white people did to them. FFS!

Once or twice they've said the difference is that their ancestors let go of Europe and embraced South America and became South Americans. Unlike us British in the Falklands who wish to remain British. So therefore they are not colonists but we are.

Anyway, I'm tired of their crap. The main thing is CFK and her paid thugs are getting nowhere fast.

I saw that the mercury in Sydney hit 46 the other day. That's not nice. I'm in the UK right now and it's not reaching zero at the moment. I would imagine that the elderly are being hit hard in Sydney with temperatures like that.

Take care my friend.
29 Anglotino (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 11:46 am Report abuse
@28 Hey Joe

How you doing? Hope you are enjoying Britain. Yes Sydney had its hottest day EVER. On our 43C day last week I made sure I checked on our street's 'Italian nonna' to make sure she was alright. Part of the Australian way I guess. We know to check on neighbours when it gets like this. Today was a nice 27C but there's an orange tint to the light due to the smoke from all the fires around Melbourne. It's part of our culture now dealing with it annually. I'm sure Camp has its own environmental quirks that shape Falklanders..... Islanders.... Kelpers? Which is the equivalent of Aussie for you guys?

Back to Tobias. His problem is youth. It's painfully obvious he lacks life experience and though intelligent, he lets emotions overrule his common sense. I was hoping for a more challenging environment here but it isn't to happen. Even those that can argue show a distinct lack of wanting to unlearn the lies.

I've already grown tired of them too. Actually Argentineans are getting one of the worst online reputations after Chinese government trolls.

CFK is destroying another export industry - tourism. The exchange rate and inflation are now compounded by the fascist treatment being meted out to tourists.

And yes there is a certain Latin American take on what makes a country independent. Spain engendered a lot of loathing in its colonies and it is resonating down the centuries. Even my Colombian 'family' (of my flat mate) had a hard time getting their head around the Queen of Australia and our sovereign independence. Though they were much more receptive to the idea of a monarchy when I explained the stability in having an apolitical head of state that has 6 decades of experience in world affairs and only thinks of the long term.

I'm proud of my British history and the connection it gives me to people like you on the other side if the planet. It's a narrow mind that can only envisage one system of government and believe all others to be less democratic.
30 yankeeboy (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 12:14 pm Report abuse
I have always thought that USA, Canada, UK, Australia and any other English speaking country that wants to join should have a formalized FTA and a more integrated military and political hierarchy.

It has been shown that during economic downturns we always do a little better than “the others” and in economic upturns do much better than “the others”.
We really should look at more integration and leave “the others” to their own misery.
On Toby, he has never left Mendoza so he has no idea how money exchange works or how much stuff relatively costs in other countries. I have not been in BA for two years and last time I was there a lot of stuff costs way more than it does in the USA. So by now it would be 60-70% higher than what it was then! Just before their last crash everything in BA costs more than NYC yet they make 1/3 of what we do. It is completely unsustainable as they seem to find out every 10 yrs.
This next crash is going to be a doozy! There isn't one country or Int'l Org that cares if they wallow in their misery and I think there are a bunch of people that want them to suffer.

Next time I go I am going to see if the Park Hyatt will accept 10lbs of Sugar to stay a week. We'll see.
31 Shed-time (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 01:15 pm Report abuse
@30 With regards to english speaking countries having an FTA, this was essentially the idea of the commonwealth, however some countries (USA, RofIreland, etc) didn't want to be a part of it. As far as I am aware there is a military accord between the UK, USA, Canada, Australia and Kiwiland that allows the exchange of gathered information, computing, and other related military assistance. I'm pretty sure that if Australia was having issues then the UK would come along to help, just like the commonwealth forces aided in South Korea (but the UK not in vietnam).

However, we're all very aware that forces within the USA, both republican and democrat, would like to see these relationships sidelined in exchange for a better relationship with Israel, South America and Asia.

The USA looks west, not east.
32 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 02:38 pm Report abuse
“I've never even been to Argentina”.

Well, I'll give you credit for admitting the obvious. That's better than most of the other tossers here.

You people are a joke.

BTW, I guess my prayers where not answered. Like the breaking of new year's resolutions, if it's January it must be some sort of calamity going on in the “lucky” country.... :(

Its been hot in Argentina too, but we can go to the south and stand by the cold breeze of massive glaciers sweeping the southern tundra... can you????

I don't have to leave my country ever, to see the world, both natural and cultural. Everything is here. Last year I went on a trip of Eastern Europe and only had to drive 120 kilometers! And of course, I can see the Amazon rainforest and Antarctica like icefields without using my passport.

@30

The Anglo countries are sliding an sliding and sliding. The UK and USA used to be top 5 in most categories, not they sometimes don't even break the top 20! (education, crime, per capita, etc). Remember that economist report about the “best” countries, which had Argentina 18th, 20 years ago and now 40th, that everyone here was jumping up and down about? Well that same report showed the USA 1st two decades ago, now 16th! And the UK somewhere there are well.

NO one wants to follow your failed economic and social models. Gosh, you can't even carry backpacks in the USA anymore! google “backbacks banned shootings” ... hahahaha!
33 Shed-time (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 02:52 pm Report abuse
@32 Anglo(-saxon) economies seem to be doing better following the Chicago school, than your economy is doing following the school of Peron-hitler and Angry-Nestor (walks out of negotiations).

Your whole country is broke, and produces a limitless number of brain-addled uneducated fools every year that have nothing to do but join a fascist youth movement run by a very fat man. And all this under the thin façade of venezuelan socialism? Nice.

Get over it. We did.
34 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 03:03 pm Report abuse
You are not following the “chicago” school anymore, which has some merits if applied properly.

The UK and USA are now following the “south side of chicago” school... quite a bit different thing all together.

That's the one where the bankers call you average folk “muppets”, and spend long nights at 1000 dollar meal restaurants plotting the next ponzi to “rip your faces off”...

What you get ouf of the deal is no growth and eternal austerity. And lots of mass shootings.

Enjoy your south side of Chicago model.
35 Shed-time (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 03:12 pm Report abuse
@34 I think you'll find that the current conservative bunch are 'the children of thatcher' and therefore have their heads stuck in neo-liberalism (a.k.a. the Chicago school).

Better than the Peron school of borrowing lots of money, then because of abject laziness failing to pay any of it back, then calling your creditors 'vultures' and trying to criminalise them for simply attempting to get back what was owed.

That's the school of Viveza criolla, and it's made everyone, except for your germanic über-class very very poor.

Get over it.
36 Redrow (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 04:56 pm Report abuse
@32 Nostro

Regarding the “slide” of US and UK education you might want to look up the Shanghai University ranking index (ARWU). Of the top forty, 5 are in the UK and 29 in the US - thus news of our demise has been greatly exaggerated. Otherwise it's 2 for Japan and Canada and 1 each for France & the Swiss. Argentina has only 1 in the top-200 below 150 though.
37 Shed-time (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 05:13 pm Report abuse
Nostro probably went to the same not-university as KFC did her not-law degree, or alternatively went to the same uni as that argentine economist lady who talks nonsense.

I wouldn't worry either way, as any kind of education is better than that.
38 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 05:19 pm Report abuse
@36

The only reason US universities score so well, is because they are obscenely expensive, the reason for that is that they are “universities for the world” so-to-speak. Meaning they attract the wealth from the entire world. That means that while they are really good, 90% of American citizens are priced-out of their own terciary system! Only 28% of Americans have college education, and of those 95% have massive debts. Only select few can afford the university outright.

That is nothing to be proud of.

That's like me being proud of Argentina's polo tradition of talented horses and players. I would be the first to admit that the reason for that is that all the wealth of the world's rich pours into Argentine polo, thus it has the resources to be the world's best. Take that money out and we probably would be just average.

Take all that money out of the USA universities, and they would be utterly horrible.

And for all that money, you still have a higher chance of dying in a US college than in an Iraqi street... sad but true.
39 ElaineB (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 05:31 pm Report abuse
@38 But, but, you told us you had to pull out of school because of circumstances beyond your control. You then taught yourself many languages by watching soap operas from around the world. You did tell us this.

I met an Argentine chap who had taught himself English by watching old movies. He was fluent but with a Noel Coward accent. Lovely chap.

There are many eternal students in Argentina because it is free and they can avoid work. They are also at the mercy of ever-striking tutors, a poor curriculum and overcrowded slum-like classrooms. One of my friends there spent most of her course sitting on the floor of her classroom and unable to get the text books required to finish the course.

CFKC should use some of her ill-gotten gains and put it into the school system. Except she doesn't want an educated nation that would get rid of her.
40 Shed-time (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 05:41 pm Report abuse
@39 Most Autocratic governments fear their intelligentia. Chinese close the gates of their universities during times of strife and civil disorder, Mao closed the tea houses so the academics couldn't meet up, same with the 'coffee houses' being closed in london under King Charles II (I think) because he feared them.

KFC keeps the universities weak, and La Campora keep the students weak minded, and between the two they lick the platter clean.

... that's just how Maximo rolls.
41 Redrow (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 05:50 pm Report abuse
@38

And with these world class universities (in the US and UK) come ground breaking discoveries that drive future economic growth and technical and biomedical advancement. These are rewarded with Nobel prizes - the vast majority of recent awards (in Physics, Chemistry & Medicine) have gone to the US, followed by the UK. Argentina's last such award was in 1984 for a guy who did all his research in Britain. What chance do your scientists and academics have given the cyclical chaos your country keeps putting itself through?
42 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 05:53 pm Report abuse
@39

I never suggested many of the state universities in Argentina were anything to emulate. I agree the “freeloading” and radicalization has harmed many, most notably UBA which I freely admit is a joke given what it should be.

As for your first part of what you wrote, now you know how “mythology”, “folktales”, and “legends” come about. Only about 10% of what you said about me is even true.
43 yankeeboy (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 07:00 pm Report abuse
Toby, The only list Argentina makes it into the top 5 are World Inflation Inlfation Indez and Auto Death Rates.
Congratulations!
Finally something Rgs are good at!

BTW you make yourself looks so foolish taking trash about your betters.

Also I have been to more of Argentina than most Argentine s and every single village looks exactly the same, dirty, spanish colonial buildings covered with wires and graffiti. pealing paint with only 1/2 of the main road paved, packs of dogs running around, dirty filthy kids begging or playing soccer with a home made ball, disgusting people hanging out of their front doors because they have no a/c, unclean stands selling choripans...gads I could go on but it is too depressing..

So if you think you know what Eastern Europe looks like by going to some village 1100 miles away form Mendoza you are more of an idiot that I thought you were.
44 Shed-time (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 07:02 pm Report abuse
@42 Mythology, folktales, legends and delusions come about through UBA and the argentine educational system.

My personal favourite folktale is Malvinas Argentina
45 agent999 (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 07:12 pm Report abuse
@42
I think the best is the book of “Indec Fairy tales”
46 ChrisR (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 08:37 pm Report abuse
What about Prat_Junta and his favourite fairy tale:

TMBOA is the best President in 40 year!

Come to think of it, that’s a nightmare.
47 Shed-time (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 10:46 pm Report abuse
What about Julian Assange's new book-pamphlet, 'a day in my life' which he wrote last week?
48 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 20th, 2013 - 11:40 pm Report abuse
@43

Wow, something must have hurt for you to spew out such filth and lies.

Not my fault your country is the new joke of the world: indebted to the chin, dumb as sawdust, obese, smelling like rotting pee (the most famous aspect of New York), and no safer to walk around in than Mogadishu dressed as Jesus.

That's the new role of America in the world... just accept it and move on.
49 yankeeboy (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 12:23 am Report abuse
Hurt? Why would you think that? I just got pissed because I would try to go to what Rgs consider quaint towns and they were all sh*tholes and I wouldn't even get out of the car. I can name 100s of them.

Since you have never been out of Argentina I would recommend you going to any of the 100s of slums in your country and see the RAW SEWAGE running in the gutters next to the streets.

How many patents did Argentina win this year? And the USA? Hmm which one of our countries invent things? Your people will never be more than beasts of burden for mine. Never you're just to dumb and lazy,

BTW how many people were expressed kidnapped today in BA? 100? 200? more? How may died at the soccer matches today?
50 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 01:01 am Report abuse
Lucky for you I'm bored of these nationalistic spitfests. I have no interest in insulting your country much further (saying the truth about mass shootings with actual links excluded). If you and others haven't noticed, I have also laid back from my constant “anglo-saxon”, and “Europeans” bashing. I've lost interest in that.

You are a poor generation living in have-been countries and that's why you are so uber-sensitive and out to find anyone whom you can humiliate to feel better about yourselves.

You are sad people. Simple as that, and I thank the powers of this universe I wasn't born one of you. I would have killed myself long ago.
51 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 01:59 am Report abuse
@50
You were not missed and will not be missed in future.

Your sole presence on here was to call attention to nothing but yourself.

Yawn. Bye
52 ElaineB (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 10:06 am Report abuse
@51 It is true that TTT is all about TTT. Attention seeker, much. I think that is why he doesn't mind making a fool of himself repeatedly. As long as he gets the attention.
53 ChrisR (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 10:17 am Report abuse
Back to the subject (more or less)

I have definitive evidence (albeit one sample) that Yankeeboy is correct in his description of the public hospitals in BsAs being a disgrace.

My neighbour came on Saturday and I asked him why the dealy.

On 6th Dec he was feeling so ill: very, very tired and could not drag himself around, so rather than drive for 45 minutes to get to his private hospital he went to the local emergency hospital. He had a few blood tests then they decided to take x-rays of his chest.

Having studied the x-rays and the results of the blood tests the doctor declared there was nothing medically wrong and he needed a complete rest.

The next day he rang his private doctor who listened to what had got on and suggested that he take his x-rays along to a specialist he knew. Earliest appointment 27th Dec (20 days to wait). So he went along with his public hospital x-rays and the female specialist after looking at them asked what they had done about ALL THE FLUID ON HIS LEFT LUNG!

Short answer nothing of course, so more blood tests are done which show the presence of tuberculosis!

He now has to go back by the 26th Jan for the ‘type test’ result which will indicate the type of TB he has got and may result in yet another type of anti-biotic to go with the latest type he is already taking.

Good job he called his own doctor! I asked him if he would ever go back to the emergency hospital: ‘only if I was physically injured and required stitches as soon as possible’ he said.

HTF can they miss fluid in the lungs?
54 yankeeboy (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 10:44 am Report abuse
Never never never go to a public hospital in Argentina. If you come out at all I can almost guarantee you'll be worse off than when you went in!

Toby, You'd never make it in the Northern Countries. We don't like arrogant maids/gardeners/pool cleaners/servers. Plus you'd never be able to get a visa to come to the USA. Never. So stay in Mendoza we will all me much happier.
How's the wall around the slum coming? Any update for us? Funny they are walling in the poor people, usually it is the rich that have to isolate themselves.
55 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 01:25 pm Report abuse
@53

Heck, at least they don't amputate the wrong limbs or mammas, like is the daily case in northern hospitals.

@54

There is nothing interesting to see in the USA, which is why people just go to Miami to shop, to Orlando for some amusement parks, and to New York just to say they were there. Aside from the Grand Canyon there is no natural sight worth seeing for being special... so its not like I need a visa really.

And you dare talk about “walls”, when the USA along with Brazil are the world capitals of gated communities? The nerve, from a nobody like you!

Back and ready for duty in 2013. The two weeks vacation did me good.

ps- Anglotino, I asked in a rugby union forum that has plenty of aussies about the 3 month vacations Australians have, and how they spent it. Every single one of them (about 9 responded) requested that I introduce you to them, the man with 3 months vacation a year. They think you must be Craig Emerson. jajajajaja
56 ElaineB (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 01:28 pm Report abuse
Seriously, TTT, your total life experience is gained from the internet? By asking questions in forums? You really, really need to get out. Cut the cord and travel. You would not be so narrow-minded and bigoted.

Don't waste your life.
57 yankeeboy (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 01:49 pm Report abuse
Toby, The USA is HUGE, we have everything Argentina does but it is bigger , better, cleaner, safer, more organized well i could go on and on but it really doesn't matter. The only way you'll ever see it is through the web so who cares.

FYI Tourism in the USA accounts for 2 TRILLION in GDP. 5X Argentina's WHOLE GDP. You just make yourself look more and more dumb with every post.
Very few people live behind walls and practically nobody has a guard in front of their house. It is standard practice even for the middle class with 200K houses in Argentina.

Toby, how many women were burned to death this weekend? Seems like it is becoming quite regular there.
58 Condorito (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 03:17 pm Report abuse
@2 Elaine,
In 2012 tourist arrivals from Argentina were up 30%. I expect the high numbers will continue this year. You are right that in the past Chilean hoteliers would complain that RGs didn't spend much in the country, but the situation is very different now.

As I mentioned in another post, the increase in RGs in Chile is down to the desire to buy electronics and luxury items that can't easily be found in Argentina (doubling up with a holiday break). Many are complaining about being punished by the exchange rate, but they are willing to take the pain to purchase goods, that today are close to being essentials.

@Tobias
Argentina is certainly a country full of natural beauty (nb: you don't have Amazon - you have sub-tropical forest at Iguazu), but why limit yourself. If you go to Los Glaciares, you have to carry on into Chile (you don't even need a passport) to see Torres del Paine. Likewise in the north, if you go to Purmamarca, you must continue over to San Pedro in Chile. If you ever drive the Ruta 40 south, take a right at Esquel and do the Chilean side down to Perito Moreno (the town).

Were you setting up for the vendimia? A bit early, no?
59 redpoll (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 07:24 pm Report abuse
Re the comment of the long delays at the frontier bridges by returning Argentine tourists. The Uruguayan passport and immigration offices were fully staffed and did the paper work rapidly. The prob was on the Argentine side where (purposedly)too few officials were on duty
Snotty. I thought you were a troll. No you are not. Just a lonely little gnome on sentry go in Cristinas rockery
60 reality check (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 07:44 pm Report abuse
Redpoll
Standing next to a Gome, sitting on a toadstool fishing with a pole.
Anyone, think, of a name for him?
61 Anglotino (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 07:50 pm Report abuse
Golum
62 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 09:00 pm Report abuse
Thinking...
63 redpoll (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 09:22 pm Report abuse
Wheres my presssious the Malvinas??? Nasty Brit hobbits!
64 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 21st, 2013 - 10:14 pm Report abuse
Caliban
65 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 12:43 am Report abuse
@57

You are living in lalaland. You honestly must really believe people in the rest of the world think the USA is just like Hollywood (they never show the slums of LA, Chicago, New York... and never do any films in Detroit, Cleveland, New Orleans, Baltimore, Saint Louis, the bad parts of Miami, Oakland... do they)

I always laugh how “northeners” dislike how other people put the best face of their countries, but refuse to admit they do the same crap.
66 yankeeboy (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 12:53 am Report abuse
Toby, I never said we don't have poor areas we absolutely do. They look very much like the middle class areas of Argentina. We don't have slums like you'd see in Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia they are unsafe/unsanitary so if they pop up somewhere they are quickly torn down.

The difference in the USA is there is hope and many examples of people working hard and moving from poor to middle class and from middle class to rich. All it takes is intelligence and hard work. That is the biggest difference between our two societies.

The odds are you will be poorer and less educated than your parents and the trend shows that your children will be poorer and less educated than you if that is even possible.

Don't you wish you were as rich as our poorest citizens?
67 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 12:58 am Report abuse
@66

Oh yes, I would love to live in some of those pretty areas of New York, Los Angeles, Detroit... just like those middle class areas of Argentina, which are tipicall bungalows with red bricks, a nice little garden and a garage. Deny it all you want, but your depictions of Argentina are utter caricatures from a spiteful insecure person.

There is no social mobility in the USA, unless you can pass a ball, make a basket, sing, or be outrageous in behavior. Hard work is not rewarded which is why average income in your country since 1999 has gone down 8,000 dollars... 8k!!! And people yet are working more hours.

I'm already more educated than 90% of you here, so that means I will likely surpass my parents in a year.
68 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 02:07 am Report abuse
@67TTT

What happened? Didn't you say you were leaving?

I'm not really interested why, just ease go, like you said you would.
69 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 02:14 am Report abuse
Let me guess, you want the Anti-argentines to have a monopoly here, you tolerate no dissenting views. Not surprised about that.

What about your country, Canada, they can't even get their bills printed right... don't even know their own national symbols! How embarassing.

And just heard that the in the possession taking ceremony of Obama today, people where standing in cold mud because the USA didn't have the budget to plant some grass in the capitol area... No money for some slabs of grass?!

hahahahaha
70 Anglotino (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 02:44 am Report abuse
Nostrolldamus the 8th at Jan 21st, 2013 - 01:01 am

”Lucky for you I'm bored of these nationalistic spitfests. I have no interest in insulting your country much further (saying the truth about mass shootings with actual links excluded). If you and others haven't noticed, I have also laid back from my constant “anglo-saxon”, and “Europeans” bashing. I've lost interest in that. ”

Couldn't even last 24 hours.

Weak-willed!
71 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 02:47 am Report abuse
I said “much further”... that means I still have some ways to go.

But with the news feed of utterly cacchinating stories coming out of your countries, I must admit it's hard to resist!

You know who Craig Emerson is?
72 Anglotino (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 03:44 am Report abuse
Weak-willed now followed by....
Deflection!
73 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 03:45 am Report abuse
@71 TTT

“But with the news feed of utterly cacchinating stories coming out of your countries, I must admit it's hard to resist!”

So, another attention-getting ploy, then.

Thought so.

You've tried this before, and nobody cared then, either.

'Bye.
74 ElaineB (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 10:52 am Report abuse
There is social mobility in the USA. To be honest, it is something I admire hugely about the US and is sadly missing is South America. It is hard to believe that TTT would cite sport as 'the only way out of poverty' in the US; projecting much. If you are born poor in SoAm you will die poor. To use Argentina as an example, everything about government policy is designed to keep the poor dependent, under-educated and in poverty.

On the other hand, the colour line is still a factor in progress, college attendance and earnings in the US. It even affects drugs legislation, length of sentence in court cases and chance of rehabilitation. It is changing slowly for the better but it is still a factor.
75 reality check (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 12:11 pm Report abuse
“I'm already more educated than 90% of you here, so that means I will likely surpass my parents in a year..”

What? you leave high school next year?

If you assume that education is a guarantee of a well paid occupation or wealth, you are going to be a very disappointed little girl. All in does is get you in the Market place! and there is a lot of competition out there in the big bad REAL world.
76 yankeeboy (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 03:26 pm Report abuse
74. I think Toby has forgotten that most of the newer multi-billionaires in the USA came from humble beginnings and created their own wealth through (gasp) innovation.
Also, The Capital Grounds are currently under a large restoration project, if those people were standing in mud they were probably in an area they shouldn't have been that is being re-done. It is a large multi year project bringing it back to how Frederick Olmstead originally designed the park. It is going to be gorgeous when it is finally done.

On the 8K decrease in income, there are a lot of underemployed/unemployed people right now. We are coming out of a huge recession slowly but the next decade looks to be a large growth decade with all of the o/g fracking. If Obama doesn't mess it up too much we are on an amazing path to prosperity and becoming a huge net exporter of o/g, we will be pumping more than Saudia Arabia! Which mean lots of cheap gas at home to run factories and lots of taxes from exports. It is all happening now and it will get bigger and faster in the next few years. Lots of US Mfg is moving home because of the cheap gas and China becoming expensive. The cycle is changing just wait a few more years and you'll see what I am talking about.
77 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 03:39 pm Report abuse
Exactly right, Yankeeboy.

With manufacturing in China, and the of shipping goods increasing in price, local manufacturing will increase. Th e trend towards Organic vegetables and fruit means more local growing. USA will be slowly returning to the way they were 40 years ago, domestic goods, better employment and a healthier middle class.
78 yankeeboy (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 03:44 pm Report abuse
77. There are so many Farm to table restaurants opening up near me it is kind of incredible.
I always thought it odd to ship in produce when most areas of the country are surrounded by large local farms. I am glad it is finally getting back to the way it was. Plus the food is much fresher and better tasting!
79 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 05:21 pm Report abuse
Interesting that when the economy changes and Globalisation ceases to work so well, America (USA) re-invents itself to adapt, while the Malvinistas and Peronists cry that “it's not fair” and are angry that outside influences are trying to hurt Argentina.

Things change, stop blaming others and look at how you can change to improve your situation.
80 Condorito (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 06:26 pm Report abuse
76
I agree.
The US bringing all that fracking on line is going to change a lot of things. Mfg going back to the US / lower energy imports to US / weakening of OPEC / improved trade balance / and so on. The only down side is the continued dependence on fosile fuels and the related emissions.

At the moment we are swamped with Chinese made junk. I would be very happy to see more “Made in USA” products.
81 yankeeboy (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 06:57 pm Report abuse
www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2013/01/16/169511949/a-mysterious-patch-of-light-shows-up-in-the-north-dakota-dark

North Dakota is having a hard time filling jobs, the ratio of men/women is askew and the wages are increasing rapidly. It is more visible in ND since the population was so low before all of these new wells.

80. I think the only thing that won't come back are the products that have a lot of hazardous waste. China doesn't seem to care what they pump into their air or ground. They don't even care that you can't breath in the capital city because the smog is so thick!
They have a ways to go before anyone could consider them a world power and I think they will be too old and too poor before that will ever happen.
82 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 09:26 pm Report abuse
@81

Has one of their rivers of water ever “catch fire”??
83 yankeeboy (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 09:37 pm Report abuse
82. Why do Rgs live in the past. You do realize people didn't know or care anything about the Environment when that happened right?
You claim to be smart but you can't seem to argue at all.
Sad little creature.
BUT If you want to talk filthy rivers go RIGHT NOW to La Boca or Tigre...RIGHT NOW. One of THE MOST FILTHY RIVERS ON THE PLANET..ON THE PLANET and children swim in them for gosh sakes. Dead fish and garbage floating on top of black oily water and there are the Rg kids swimming with thier parents watching while smoking and drinking.

No wonder they are mostly brain dead.
84 Anglotino (#) Jan 22nd, 2013 - 09:58 pm Report abuse
“catch fire”??

Weak-willed followed by....
Deflection followed by....
Tu quoque...... And now with added grammatical errors!

Guess he didn't have time to sit and prepare this one beforehand with a thesaurus.
85 EnglishManAbroad (#) Jan 23rd, 2013 - 03:19 pm Report abuse
Thank you , ElaineB, you rise with your comment above the noise.
I'm in Arg right now, and have been here a couple of times in the last few years. Like all tragedies, the worst ones are the avoidable ones, and every vote for CFK and her personal fiefdom brings this one closer. My partner is an Arg. scientist, watching with shame and fear the collapse of this beautiful country into a peronist populist pit. The razor wire and electric fences on domestic properties says it all(Mendoza). The complete absence of culture and aspiration in a nation that can just make babies for an economy that can only make a bun or sell a wheel trim is shocking. In the last two years the slide has increased, my (very beautiful) Arg girl is more tempted by Europe than ever, and I am pushing at a door becoming wider each day. And that will be Argentina's loss, another example for those with intellect to follow.
How sad that some of the contributors from here don't reflect on the reality of life here. Unless of course that stipend might be from the sale of CFK's used-once clothes...
Bear in mind that should A regain the Falklands, all that would happen is that CFK would buy the islands, oddly along with any oil, for a peso, and Arg wouldn't have them anyway: She does has form. Or one of her cronies, for example the playboy, running around the desert in his tonka-toy, while his lawyers rob the property rights from simple dignified people. I do have proof.
The observation on the rich becoming more so, while the rest remain poor and ill-educated is too true, an unjust abuse of power which will result in Arg never contributing to science, art or the world in a manner and scale that should be expected. An avoidable tragedy.
86 jij (#) Jan 23rd, 2013 - 06:21 pm Report abuse
@ 66 Yankeeboy aka ayayay aka KelperAbout
What are you talking about?
the USA have millons of black people and “native americans” that are living in worst conditions than argentinians!
The blacks and indians in the USA looks:
dirty,
fat,
poor
and sick!
The middle east immigrant men and women working as cab drivers don't take a bath! They stinks!
The indian immigrant men and women found working at the 7/11 stores don't take a bath! They stinks!
The usa males likes to spit on side walks and bus stations creating a health problem.
The mexican-american males urinates in public places!
Beggers askings for “change” (coins) are found in any place in the USA!
Malpractice medical suits against hospital and physicians are file daily!
Get lost YankeeNobody!
87 yankeeboy (#) Jan 23rd, 2013 - 06:29 pm Report abuse
86. Typical Argentine Racist and you wonder why nobody likes Argentinians.

Thank goodness you'll never see a USA Visa waiver program again.
88 jtj (#) Jan 23rd, 2013 - 07:29 pm Report abuse
@87 Yankeeboy aka ayayay aka KelperAbout
I am a citizen of both countries.
Argentinians are the best people in the world!
89 yankeeboy (#) Jan 23rd, 2013 - 07:39 pm Report abuse
88. The only people in the world that think Argentinians are anything but soulless, narcissistic, sexist, racist, cowardly, lying, dishonorable thugs are fellow Argentinians.
And I am sure you have never been to the USA.
90 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 23rd, 2013 - 10:18 pm Report abuse
@85 Emglishman abroad

Very enlightening post. Thank you for your candid observations about day to day life in Arg. It is a persoection we rarely hear on this forum, from an interested onlooker. Alas, it is tragic and difficult hear as well.
I feel sorry for the 'real' Argentinians who love their country and see this happening. It is the reason that I despise the Trolls and La Campora propagandists. Their actions are a cruel slap in the face to decent honest people, Just for personal profit, they betray their countrymen and condemn them to poverty.
91 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 24th, 2013 - 02:39 am Report abuse
@91sussie

“I reside in the USA and Argentina.
and you know wery well who I am....uuuujajaja
You damn irish doggie tale!”

Pure fantasy, Sussie-boy.
Nobody cares about you. You impress nobody.
92 jnj (#) Jan 24th, 2013 - 06:41 pm Report abuse
91
Conor Luden-Brown aka yankeeboy aka ayayay aka KelperAbout
what a joke!
93 Anglotino (#) Jan 24th, 2013 - 09:28 pm Report abuse
It is usually the case that unintelligent people don't realise that is they themselves that are the joke.

You probably don't realise that at all do you jnj?

(My phone just tried to autocorrect jnj to JUNK.... how's that for insight).
94 roger (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 11:29 pm Report abuse
@ langostino
who can understand your english

@93 Langostino
learn to write in english or shut up!
95 Anglotino (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 01:19 am Report abuse
Umm yeah sure Roger.

Now go have your bath!

youtu.be/LPfshtIirR8
96 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 01:28 am Report abuse
@94

Sussie

Waste of space
97 Anglotino (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 03:33 am Report abuse
Yeah I assumed as much Troy.

But not a waste of space. She's the comic relief. The court jester.

I know it's not polite to laugh at people with low IQs but I can't resist. She so oblivious.
98 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 06:32 am Report abuse
Liked the fog treats ad, though !!

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