Friday, January 25th 2013 - 15:24 UTC

Falklands to host Commonwealth lawmakers’ conference: ‘self determination and devolution’ in agenda

The Falkland Islands will be hosting the 43rd British Islands and Mediterranean Region (BIMR) Annual Conference of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association (CPA) from the 11th to 15th February 2013. This is the second time BIMR holds its annual conference in the Falklands, last time was in February 2004.

Professor Keating is a political scientist specializing in management of nationality conflicts

Baroness Scotland made history in 1991 by becoming the first black woman to be appointed a Queen’s Counsel

Gibraltar Chief Minister Fabian Picardo, a close friend of the Falklands

The Falkland Islands Branch has been a member of the CPA for many years, and regularly sends delegates to the Annual Plenary and Regional Conferences. The BIMR is made up of branches from Alderney, Guernsey, Jersey, Isle of Man, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, CPA UK, St Helena, Cyprus, Malta and the Falkland Islands.

The Regional Conference is hosted on a rotating basis, with this being the second time the Falkland Islands has hosted it. Whilst not all branches are able to attend the meeting, a total of 37 delegates are expected. Representatives from Canada and Anguilla will act as observers. The delegate’s respective branches meet travel costs, with the Falkland Islands responsible for local costs.

The official arrival date for delegates, invited observers and guest speakers is Monday 11th February, with departure on Friday 15th February. However, some delegations have chosen to arrive early, on Saturday 9th, in order to have the opportunity to explore the Falklands further.

The theme of the two-day conference (12th and 13th February) is “Self-Determination and its role in Self Governance and Devolution”. Guest speakers have been invited in order to address three plenary sessions. They are; The RT Hon the Baroness Scotland of Asthal QC (**), Professor Michael Keating (*), and Fabian Picardo the Chief Minister of Gibraltar. Their talks will all relate to the conference theme. A question and answer period will follow each speech. Delegates will then break into workshops to discuss elements of the lead speeches before reporting back to the plenary session.

In addition, the BIMR Annual General Meeting will also take place during the week, and Members of the Legislative Assembly will also meet privately with the delegation from UK.

The third full day will be a Falkland Life Tour to Bluff Cove.

There will be a number of evening social events, including a buffet dinner with Members of the Chamber of Commerce and a Gala Dinner with invited guests.

The Opening Ceremony will include performances by children from both the Infant and Junior School and Falkland Islands Community School, under the direction of Shirley Adams-Leach. There will be very limited seating for the public to observe the proceedings of the Opening Ceremony and Plenary sessions, though it is expected that these sessions will be broadcast by the Falkland Islands Radio Service and Falkland Islands Television.

(*) Michael Keating was born in 1950, graduated from the University of Oxford in Philosophy, Politics and Economics in 1971, gained his PhD at Glasgow College of Technology (now Glasgow Caledonian University) in 1975 and received the qualification of Incorporated Linguist (Institute of Linguists) in 1981.

He has a doctorate honoris causa from the Facultés Universitaires Catholiques de Mons (Belgium). He is a Fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh, a Fellow of the British Academy and an Academician of the Academy of Social Sciences; He has worked at the University of Essex (1975-6), North Staffordshire Polytechnic (1976-9) and the University of Strathclyde (1979-88). From 1988 until 1999 he was Professor of Political Science at the University of Western Ontario.

From 2000 until 2010 he was Professor of Political and Social Sciences at the European University Institute, Florence and was head of department between 2004 and 2007. He has held visiting positions at the Institut d'Etudes Politques de Paris; University of Santiago de Compostela; University of the Basque Country; Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University; the Norwegian Nobel Institute; Nuffield College, Oxford; University of Grenoble; Autonomous University of Barcelona. From 2010 until 2013 he is ESRC Professorial Fellow. He is currently Chair in Scottish Politics at the University of Aberdeen.

Michael Keating's interests include European politics, nationalism, public policy, urban and regional politics and society, and social science methodologies. He is currently working on a large project on Rescaling Europe and on methodological pluralism.

Professor Keating has also been working to improve the interface between academics and practitioners in the field of public policy in Scotland and beyond. He is a co-founder of the Scottish Policy Innovation Forum and, with Richard Rose, directs the Scotland in the World initiative.

He has advised local governments in Scotland and Canada, the Scottish Government, the Scottish Parliament, the European Commission, OECD/SIGMA, OECD, the German Development Cooperation agency, and the Committee of the Regions on a range of issues, including public policy, devolution and federalism and the management of nationality conflicts.

(**) Baroness Scotland of Asthal QC was Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State and Government Spokesperson for Foreign and Commonwealth Office 1999-2001; Parliamentary Secretary, Lord Chancellor's Department and Government Spokesperson for Law Officers' Department 2001-03; Minister of State and Government Spokesperson for Home Office 2003-07; Government Spokesperson for: Trade and Industry 2004-05, Women's Issues/Equal Agenda; Attorney General and Government Spokesperson for the Law Officers (attending cabinet) 2007-10; Shadow Attorney General 2010-11; Opposition Spokesperson for the Law Officers 2010-11. She is also Alternate UK Government Representative, European Convention since 2002.

Raised to the peerage as Baroness Scotland of Asthal, of Asthal in the County of Oxfordshire 1997.

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1 Idlehands (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 03:39 pm Report abuse
They should invite CFK as a guest speaker.
2 Think (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 03:41 pm Report abuse

“Devolution” of Malvinas to Argentina in the Agenda....

That's the way the cookie crumbles!
3 Musky (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 03:54 pm Report abuse
@1 Idle
To end the evening with a joke or two and a jolly good sing song!
4 LEPRecon (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 04:07 pm Report abuse
@2 Think

I find its really amusing that you and people like you are frightened of the words “self-determination”.

But never mind, one day you might get self-determination in Argentina. Maybe your provinces, whose govenors are under attack from the Federal government for having the audacity to complain about their ineptness, while vote to cede from Argentina in an act of self-determination.

Please remember that territorial integrity is no longer a valid excuse for countries to hold onto territory against the will of the people who live there - Kosovo set a precedent regarding that.

Spain is currently having to deal with the fact that Catalan wants a referendum regarding whether it should stay a part of Spain. The Spanish are blabbing on about territorial integrity, but it won't wash.

Look at the different approaches.

The UK: Happy to give the Falklands, Gibraltar the right to decide their own future. Happy to give Scotland a referendum on whether they want to remain part of the UK or not.

Spain: Refuses to acknowledge the right of the Gibraltans to decide their own future, and is acting an illegal and petulant manner because the Gibraltans don't want anything to do with them.

Spain also refuses to acknowledge the rights of the Catalonians to cede from Spain, as they know that this could spell the end of Spain itself.

Argentina: Refuses to acknowledge the right of the Falkland Islanders to decide their own future, and is acting an illegal and petulant manner because the Falkland Islanders don't want anything to do with them.

Argentina: Now p!ssing off their own Provincial government in an attempt to maintain control, and take that final step towards becoming a true dictatorship.

In the words of Princess Leia: ”The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems (read Provinces) will slip through your fingers.”

This meeting will be good for the Islanders, because more and more people will see the truth, and understand just how much Argentina LIES.
5 ChrisR (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 04:08 pm Report abuse
Unfortunately TMBOA would not be able to attend as Tang01 may be impounded and AR does not have any seagoing ships.

Also, they cannot find the Malvinas and TMBOA doesn't recognise the Falklands Islands Government.

She is also doing her face for the five days in question followed by the next week to have it freshly sprayed in mourning white ready for Dead Man Not Weaklings funeral, expected imminently.

6 Brit Bob (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 04:14 pm Report abuse
@2 The Falkland Islands have got absolutely nothing to do with Argentina.

Read, learn, digest:
7 andy65 (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 04:29 pm Report abuse
@2 Think (#) You have more chance,if you haven't already of swinging from the Titties of your beloved leader SS Hitler Kirchner The Botox Queen.
8 GFace (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 04:39 pm Report abuse
@2 “Devolution” of Malvinas to Argentina in the Agenda....

Or Devolution of Poland to Nazi Germany to Stalinist Russia. Or Devolution of Tibet to the PRC....

What a disgusting unrepentant little fascist you are.
9 Gustbury (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 04:44 pm Report abuse
okupas Parasites!!!!!!!!!!
10 andy65 (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 04:55 pm Report abuse
I feel so sorry for these brainwashed Argentines while they get poorer there Queen SS Hitler Kirchner gets richer,I do hope you were all at the airport to greet her from her luxury British Jet after her vaction paid for by YOU
11 surfer (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 05:04 pm Report abuse
What's with the talk about Argentina, they're completely out of the game, irrelevant.

Sky's falling on their heads, > 7.5 pesos to the dollar now, makes a peso worth 13 cents, still grossly overvalued though....
12 Think (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 05:18 pm Report abuse

Paraphrasing Mick & Keith a couple of true Great Brits….

Hey!!! ”Think” the time is right for an Island Devolution…...
But where I live….. The game to play is Compromise Solution…..
13 Trunce (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 05:28 pm Report abuse
@ 6 Brit Bob

I saw that you posted on -

I thought the first comment by Anthony Ward explained Falklands history in an interesting way, that most could readily grasp ; )
14 Brit Bob (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 05:35 pm Report abuse

Agreed - Anthony Ward's comments were first rate!
15 andy65 (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 06:34 pm Report abuse
Look how these Argentines behave
16 Joe Bloggs (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 06:37 pm Report abuse
Oh how nice for the delegates arriving on LAN; they'll get to stop in Rio Gellogos. They'll be able to marvel at the economic sense that this once a month stop makes. It won't be immediately obvious of course because the Argentine Government makes its payment to LAN for the stop discreetly. You see, virtually nobody ever gets on or off at this stop so an ignorant person could be mistaken for thinking that it is surely about to stop. But no.

Who knows, on the way back out of the Falklands they could get off for a stopover. A nice stroll down Krchner St and a moment to reflect at his mausoleum. Then over night in one of its many lovely hotels before jumping on Aeroleneas Argentinos for a truly Argentine experience of wondering when they'll ever leave.

Argentina, where corruption is still in charge.

Chuckle chuckle.
17 Monkeymagic (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 06:44 pm Report abuse
Think (sic)

Why would the islands devolve to Argentina? Don't you remember last week on the other thread when you admitted it was in your “National Archives” that the only Argentines ever on the islands were a small band of rapists and murderers for a 10 weeks spell in 1832.

Devolution to France? (who can beat Argentinas 10 weeks) and to my knowledge murdered and raped no-0ne, devolution to Spain who again have a historic claim? Perhaps??

Full independence maybe?

but devolution to a country who's only historical link is 10 weeks of rape, mutiny and murder, and so proud of it, they keep it in their National Archives?

nope..can't see that happening...

Chuckle chuckle..
18 Musky (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 07:19 pm Report abuse
@17 Monk
Isn't it strange that they do not read their archives.

Their archives should also show that it was the french who told them where to find the Falklands.

Their archives should also show that from 1850-1941 the falklands were not on any congress/presidential address.

Their archives must be in fine condition, no bugger ever reads them or is too afraid to say “Sorry guys, looks like Britain knows what it is talking about”.

Time these overseas territories (and similiar) banded together and demanded the end of the comical UNC24 committee which has been turned 180 degrees into a 'colonisation committee.
19 Conqueror (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 08:06 pm Report abuse
@2 So solly, massa. Island people no understand white invader. Or to put it another way, the chances of Falkland Islands devolution to murderland is on the same level as YOU, or CFK, getting a brain. You, and she, may have “grey matter” but that's only because the stodge between your ears has already gone off.
@9 Is that monkey language? Or haven't you got up that far yet?
@13 I also thought Anthony Ward's exposition quite good. But I didn't agree with all of it. For example, he has John Strong arriving in 1690 and then Britain doing nothing else for 76 years. I don't believe that. More likely that Britain started colonising the Islands virtually straightaway. I've seen an early map where there's a dozen or more British settlements and a single French one. I reckon any French claim would be bogus. And the French SOLD their settlement to the Spanish in 1767. Just the settlement. So, by 1765, the Islands were officially British. He doesn't mention that, when the Spanish picked a fight, the Brits were back in less than a year. Agreed by the king of Spain, along with restoration of property and compensation. And Britain didn't “withdraw” in 1774. It evacuated its settlements. And not until 1776. In 1820, Jewett didn't find the place “deserted”. For a start, HMS Beagle, with Charles Darwin aboard, was there. The act was illegitimate. And a rebellious colony can't legally “inherit” territory. If they could, why send a pirate to “claim” it? Any “argentine” presence was trespassing. He forgets to mention the Arana-Southern Treaty of 1850. No mention of the Falklands as an “issue”. Let's get the history right. Even in 1866, according to the Argentine vice-president, the only “issue” between Britain and his country was some compensation due to English citizens. The truth is that the argies have NO claim. But there's a final “twist”. At the end of an armed conflict, territory belongs to the one in possession. Who was in possession at the end of the Falklands War?
20 briton (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 08:09 pm Report abuse
Spain will break into 3,
Argentina will break into 3,

cookie , crumble , tea , dipping , ...
21 Anglotino (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 08:18 pm Report abuse
@4 LEPRecon

Oh wow managing to use a Star Wars quote to make a point.

Impressed isn't the half of it!
22 LEPRecon (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 08:34 pm Report abuse
@21 - Anglotino

You have much to learn, my Padawan. ;)
23 slattzzz (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 10:32 pm Report abuse
Oh poor stink you are going to pass away a disappointed person. Your stupidness is only surpassed by your ignorance. Put your hands up (an rg trait) and admit it. Still you don't live in rgenweener so you don't care is that not true
24 briton (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 10:32 pm Report abuse
They recon the brits and yanks will have operational laser mounted weapons on planes and ships ect in the next decade,

So the future is here,
Just a lot closer to home .lol.
25 Joe Bloggs (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 11:09 pm Report abuse
Paul Richards

We want nothing more than to pay and the appropriate people in the UK Government know this. So untwist your panties.
26 Lord Ton (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 11:30 pm Report abuse
We've got the compromise solution Think - the Islanders' get to choose.

They've got satisfaction :-)
27 jeffski (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 08:58 am Report abuse
@23 slattzzz. Put your hands up (an rg trait) hahaha very true and apparently they are very fast at it too lol.
28 Steve-33-uk (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 09:37 am Report abuse
“Legally, the Falklands are Uruguayan”

'Falklands created a billionaire oil fund - The island's government decided to create a reserve and develop this industry, which could change its economy'

'Malvinas: Euro-Latin American Assembly support for Argentina in their quest for dialogue “'

'Spanish Member of the European Parliament: Falklands should be in Argentina'

'Latin America and the United Kingdom - Relations between the United Kingdom and Latin America are strong and we are bound by centuries'

'Two separate members of Armada Argentina for Falklands war vessel breakdown - The Ministry of Defense of Argentina today ordered the removal of two members of the Navy under investigation by a breakdown suffered by the ship ”Trinity”, who took part in the Falklands War (1982).',d0ea6dd43c17c310VgnCLD2000000ec6eb0aRCRD.html
29 DanyBerger (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 12:43 pm Report abuse
Just another irrelevant article that none cares about it.

None in the civilised world have any idea of what is the Commonwealth to start with.
30 reality check (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 12:59 pm Report abuse
Wrong again. must try harder.

”The Commonwealth comprises 54 countries (including one currently suspended member), across all six inhabited continents. The members have a combined population of 2.1 billion people, almost a third of the world population.”
31 Ted (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 01:00 pm Report abuse
I sincerely wish them all well in this, but can't help hoping that one day soon the list of delegates will include a lady or a gentleman representing The Chagos Islands!
The sorry plight of these poor people (British Subjects all) forcibly ousted from their Homeland should be one of the items to top the agenda at this conference, and we the British people (one of the bastions of freedom and democracy) should not be found guilty of airbrushing them from history !
32 DanyBerger (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 01:21 pm Report abuse
@reality check
Oh! come one mate, none in the civilised world have any idea of what Commonwealth means.
Is like “la Francophonie” of the french
The Argies Racing soccer club is more popular in the world than the 2 organisation together.

Now really do you have any organisation lets say that 1000 people can recognise it to have a meeting to talk about self-determination or am I asking too much?

have you ever thought to have a meeting with the Arsenal fans for example?
33 JohnN (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 02:01 pm Report abuse
Hope that Anguillan and Canadian observers can also contribute positively to the outcome of this CPA UK conference in the Falklands.

Both geographically but especially by governance as a UK OCT, Anguilla is closer to the Falklands then Canada, but Canada has at least shown itself in multiple OAS challenges to the Falklands to be a supporter of the right of the Falkland Islands community to self-determination without harassment from Argentina.

Interesting how close UK OCT Anguilla is to OCTs of Netherlands (Sint Marten and Saba) and France (Saint-Martin and Saint-Bartélémy).

CPA UK British Isles and Mediterranean Region:

CPA Anguilla:

Anguilla location map:
34 Andyroo (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 02:19 pm Report abuse
32# @Dannyberger
The civilized world mostly reside within the commonwealth, as well as the other countries that understand the concept of self determination. We don't require lectures from people in countries looking to expand their borders in the 21st century to ethnically cleanse some islanders. lol
35 fill00000 (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 03:03 pm Report abuse
The Falkland Islands belong to the people who live there... Not any one else ! AND NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE THAT
36 CaptainSilver (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 03:36 pm Report abuse
You are invited to attend the Commonwealth games in Glasgow and repeat what you think there. Have you ever seen irate Glaswegians? I think you will last as long as the RGs at Goose Green.
North Korean thinking seems to be part of the Argentinean phsyche. You should read ' Nothing to Envy” , it lays bare propaganda and self delusion which you all seem to swallow whole. Lol!
37 reality check (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 04:00 pm Report abuse
1/3 of the worlds population and all there by choice, now that's what I call self determination.
38 RICO (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 04:19 pm Report abuse
I have heard or Racing Metro of France and Racing Stripes of Capri but I have never heard of Racing Soccer of Argentina. Meanwhile I have heard of The Commonwealth. There are of course lots of commonwealths in the world but The Commonwealth of Nations is the only one regarded as THE Commonwealth. It's 2.1 billion members may be irrelevant to Argentina but then so is history, rationality and human rights - things that some other people find important.
39 briton (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 08:23 pm Report abuse
The only reason they have not heard of the commonwealth,
Is either
1, lack of education,
2. ignorance
3, or just plane envious, and choose not to.
40 Bongo (#) Jan 27th, 2013 - 03:37 am Report abuse
How about all three?
41 DanyBerger (#) Jan 27th, 2013 - 04:00 am Report abuse

Thank you for you invitation but I never go to places where its required to get extra vaccination and food is not good enough to meet western standards.


The so called “commonwealth” it is not that it is irrelevant for Argentina it is just irrelevant.

But I know the Rolling Stones and you?


Why people have to know about things that are irrelevant?

In fact to be honest many people hardly can point in the map Britain if they don’t have relatives there.
42 UncleTed (#) Jan 27th, 2013 - 06:55 am Report abuse
Just want to clarify that I am not associated in any way with 31 'Ted' or his comments. Uncle Ted.
43 reality check (#) Jan 27th, 2013 - 07:57 am Report abuse
1/3 of the worlds population choose to belong to the Commonwealth and you can not even get 3.000 people on a small Island, 300 miles off the tip of TDF to want to belong with you. Your jealousy and envy is pitiful. Stick to your current theme in your posts though, it just demonstrates it even more!
44 LEPRecon (#) Jan 27th, 2013 - 08:05 am Report abuse
@41 - Dany

Ah you're back, no doubt after another La Campora brainwashing session.

I like your posts. They're funny. They show you up for the ignoramus that you really are.

The Falkland Islanders are getting all this free publicity, curtesy of CFK and her band of inept goons, and people who have never heard of them before are looking at the Falklands.

This is good for two reasons. Firstly they are looking into the history of the Falklands and realising that Argentina is lying about their claim. Secondly, the free publicity is getting businesses (especially the oil industry) and tourists interested in the Islands.

So we really need to thank CFK for all her help. She has also helped the Islanders by fecking up Agentina's economy for decades to come. Ruining Argentina's reputation on the international stage. Ruining Argentina's Armed Forces so they present no danger to the Falklands.

Thank you Cristina. May you get your 3rd term so you can complete the ruination of Argentina, by forcing the Provinces to declare independence.
45 Clyde15 (#) Jan 27th, 2013 - 10:35 am Report abuse
I know this is off subject but why do so many Argentineans seem to have dual nationalities? Do they need this as a bolt hole if things go tits up again. Why not renounce all other citizenships and be content with being 100% Argentinian - to paraphrase PH.
46 Joe Bloggs (#) Jan 27th, 2013 - 10:56 am Report abuse
45 Clyde15

The answer to that is a simple one. The passport they all hold, other than their Argie one, reflects their ethnic origin. It also shows that Argentina has a colonial history like many other countries in the world. For some reason the Malvinistas on here don't like to admit that they are anything other than indigenous South Americans who hate the white, Europe, the US, the UK and the West.

How dumb do they think we are?
47 Clyde15 (#) Jan 27th, 2013 - 01:10 pm Report abuse
I often wondered, now I know. Thanks.
48 yankeeboy (#) Jan 27th, 2013 - 01:38 pm Report abuse
It used to be that if you can prove your great-grandparents immigrated from Spain or Italy you can get a passport from them. Spain may have changed that a few years ago though, I remember a lot of my friends scrambling to get paperwork and lining up at the Spanish Embassy for days to try to get a passport before a new law took effect.

I think the main reason they carry a EU passport is because you can barely go anywhere without a Visa with an RG passport. Having an EU passport will save you the humiliation of being denied a visa from the USA.
49 briton (#) Jan 27th, 2013 - 07:18 pm Report abuse
or just in case argentina sinks , they can all leg it to europe.
50 Steve-33-uk (#) Jan 27th, 2013 - 08:48 pm Report abuse
Like many people, I struggle to understand Argentina's sovereignty claim on the FI.
For an implanted population like Argentina to say that the Falkland islanders, cannot have the same right to self determination as them, is absurd. Even more absurd when you realise the FI had no natives and no civilian population were forcibly removed by Britain.
An article posted today, tries its best to explain Argentina's claim but fails, badly...

Obviously the moron who wrote it, hasn't seen the quote from Ban Ki-Moon UN Secretary General when he was asked by an RG news agency about the FI and colonialism...
'People who are living under certain conditions should have access to certain level of capacities so that they can decide on their own future. And that is the main criteria of the main UN bodies. Having independence or having some kind of government in their territories.'
51 Doveoverdover (#) Jan 27th, 2013 - 10:48 pm Report abuse
@50 SG is being diplomatic. When the main UN bodies determine that the population of the Falkland Islands have reached a certain level of capacities then they will be in a position to decide their own future. So far as I know, the main UN bodies haven't yet determined this has been achieved and holding a Referendum probably won't be enough to change that assessment. On the contrary, a Referendum will only have meaning once competency has been determined.
52 puerto argentino (#) Jan 27th, 2013 - 11:40 pm Report abuse
Pirates!!!!!should read or at least read see this link
53 Anglotino (#) Jan 28th, 2013 - 12:31 am Report abuse
@51 DODO

Please do a little research into Tokelau with less population, less land and smaller GDP and then try and tell the world that the UN doesn't believe the Falklands have “reached a certain even of capacities”.

@52 PA

Thanks for the link. So what exactly is new about this? I couldn't find anything that I didn't already know.
54 Frank (#) Jan 28th, 2013 - 02:27 am Report abuse
@53 good point... it seems there are double standards at the UN.

...from the usual source 'In May 2008, the United Nations' Secretary General Ban Ki-moon urged colonial powers “to complete the decolonization process in every one of the remaining 16 Non-Self-Governing Territories”, including Tokelau.[29] This led the New Zealand Herald to comment that the United Nations was “apparently frustrated by two failed attempts to get Tokelau to vote for independence”
55 HansNiesund (#) Jan 28th, 2013 - 07:46 am Report abuse
And just what exactly is this competency test the islanders apparently don't meet? Who designs it? Who administers it? Who awards the certificates? When did Argentina (or anybody else) get theirs?
56 Doveoverdover (#) Jan 28th, 2013 - 07:53 am Report abuse
@53 I shan't bother with irrelevant comparisons or anthropomorphising international institutions. However, whatever “they” might believe it is a fact that the main UN bodies have not yet determined that any of the present NSGT have reached the necessary level of competence.

@54 Thank you for pointing out that the main UN bodies regard votes for the retention of colonial status to be evidence of political immaturity. This is another indicator that the March Referendum isn't going to be any sort of silver bullet.
57 Anglotino (#) Jan 28th, 2013 - 09:49 am Report abuse

You try to sound authoritative but just come across as pathetically ignorant.

“I shan't bother with irrelevant comparisons or anthropomorphising international institutions.”

“anthropomorphising”? Aaah yeeeeaaaahhh! Sure mate.

So you bring you the UN up as being the authority on when “the Falkland Islands have reached a certain level of capacities” and yet then won't discuss the UN role?

Perhaps it tries for the easy pickings. Tokelau seemed to be an easy picking and yet still didn't give the UN the 'correct' answer.


But I can see it is hard for you to argue this point without backing yourself into a corner. For those that don't let blind prejudice get in the way, here's a comparison:

Falkland Island statistics followed by Tokelau
Area: 12,170km2; 10km2
Population: 2,840; 1,400
Self rule: Yes; No
Settled: both post 1764
GDP (US $ millions): 105; 1.5
Citizenship: British; NZ
Head of State: Queen of UK; Queen of NZ

So the UN reckons Tokelau is ready but the Falklands isn't. PMSL

And when Hans points out the failure of TWO UN ORGANISED referenda your reply is that the “UN bodies regard votes for the retention of colonial status to be evidence of political immaturity.”

So I guess there is a wrong answer, which means decolonisation is impossible for some nations? I love it when there is only one correct answer when asking people to decide their own form of government.

You need to do more research or hide your ignorance better.
58 DanyBerger (#) Jan 28th, 2013 - 10:46 am Report abuse
@reality check

As always you are confuse...

Who told you that I want you to belong to me?

What for?

Imagine that just 20 retarded posting in Mercopress is sufficient to say “I just can’t get enough” and do you expect that we have to deal with 3000 retarded at the same time?????

Are you crazy or what mate?

And tell me where am I going to find pyjamas, curry and kebabs for 3000 of you?

I remind you the Argentina is currently applying a IS policy and all the above stuff should be imported from Britain.

Do ya want me to make Argentina go into trade deficit?

Are you crazy or what?

No, NO NO, you should go back to where you belong lets say Britannia countryside.

You will be at home, you will diver on the left side (if you can find a road of course) and to be close to your nanny smelly Queen.

That way all will be very happy.

Don’t you think so?

BTW what its is all stuff about passports and nationalities?

Are you jealous because yours only have one and with a sheep stamped on it?

Tell me you have still to wait 12 weeks to get a passport? Are they still coming from New York?

Are you still required to get a visa to enter to UK and Europe?

Any hope to become civilised yet or am I asking too much?


FI still a British colony special case and defato rule by Britain no much to say...
59 reality check (#) Jan 28th, 2013 - 10:55 am Report abuse
Curry and pyjamas? wtf are you talking about! stop rambling ffs.
60 Clyde15 (#) Jan 28th, 2013 - 11:40 am Report abuse
It's just his “master race teutonic genes ” coming through. He has a thing about Muslims and keeps putting this sort of thing in his postings.
He likes to infer that the UK will become a Muslim country in the near future and will be wearing“pyjamas” as our nation costume and eating curries.
I'm afraid that his pyjamas are a non starter in our climate but, bring on the curries. I think that the Argentinian diet of eating dead cows“ en masse” is something we could do without.

I already posted this in another thread to remind him of what is happening to his beloved Deutschland. He keeps telling us that we will all be speaking Spanish soon - it would seem that he will need to learn Turkish.
I have been in Turkey and thought that they were charming people - Argentina could do with an influx of these hard working people who could improve his country's blood stock.
61 Anglotino (#) Jan 28th, 2013 - 12:10 pm Report abuse
All that talk of curry @58 reminds me of a certain Little Britain skit.

62 Doveoverdover (#) Jan 28th, 2013 - 01:38 pm Report abuse
@57 I don't understand what point you are making. @50 brought up the subject, not me. I simply related the fact there has been no UN sponsored Referendum in the Falklands and what can be inferred from that. On the other hand, Tokelau was asked if it wanted to be in Free Association with NZ, not if it wanted to remain a colony. It said NO to Free Association so it remained a colony and hence still needs to be decolonised as per UN Resolutions. Entirely consistent, entirely reasonable and entirely clear, which is more than can be said for you.
63 GFace (#) Jan 28th, 2013 - 03:53 pm Report abuse
“Anthropomorphizing?” The last I saw, the UN was an organization of people. Some with good will and smarts, others with childish naïveté. However, plenty of others are cynical hacks re-writing human rights from the self-determination of peoples to the individual's most fundamental right to speak their mind -- all to accommodate unapologetic dictatorships and wannabe tyrannies who would seek to oppress their own people, not to mention their neighbors. As this is the case, I would say that “anthropomorphizing,” or just plain *humanizing* the people who the UN seeks to nose about, is a curious concept that is long overdue at the UN itself.

As for Tokelau, if a) it lacks a “critical mass” of wherewithall to become fully independent, b) it's residents do not wish to be integrated into neighboring regions (i.e., re-colonized or annexed against its will a la Czechoslovakia and Poland in WW2 by others who “know what's good for 'em”) nor c) feels they can be conveniently or effectively integrated into NZ proper, then the problem isn't Tokelau or its citizens. The problem rests with the cynical hacks in the C24 and the Great Blue Father who seek to impose their will on the “false conscience” of its lessers. Colonialism: 21rst Century Style, brought to you by the UN itself.
64 Doveoverdover (#) Jan 28th, 2013 - 04:59 pm Report abuse
@63 The last I saw, the UN was an organisation of States represented by diplomats and politicians that is supported by an international Civil Service manning staffs, missions and agencies.
65 GFace (#) Jan 28th, 2013 - 05:20 pm Report abuse
@64, ah.. Diplomats, Politicians and Civil Servants and “staff”. Definitely not people then. Whatever you say. If that's the case, just in case I ever want to stamp down on people by redefining their rights (according to my Outlook, it's not on my to do list but the week is young), where can I get “organization” status so I can get me some of that raw corrupt and unaccountable juice? Is there a form for that somewhere on or something like that?

As for your saying in @62 that the UN isn't sponsoring the referendum as they did in Tokelau, well I think we all understand why! The last time it was tried (more than once!) they got the “wrong” answer. This time they bloody know what the Islanders will say because they have been saying it to anyone with ears to listen for years, including those in the C24 who treat them like ”little brown (but not so brown) wards of the Great Blue Father.“ And the folks in C24 know what the answer to any question they'd openly ask the Falklanders would say to their credibility. Sure, they can keep them on the ”list” in a ceremonial fashion and just ask them periodically if things are still as they want them to be, but of course they will continue acting as an active friendly agent for AR's fascistic colonialist ambitions on the Islands and its people. And then it will be next to impossible to keep the mask of credibility on ever again.
66 dab14763 (#) Jan 28th, 2013 - 07:14 pm Report abuse

Ban Ki Moon said this:

'People who are living under certain conditions should have access to certain level of capacities so that they can decide on their own future. And that is the main criteria of the main UN bodies. Having independence or having some kind of government in their territories.'

And you said this:

'When the main UN bodies determine that the population of the Falkland Islands have reached a certain level of capacities then they will be in a position to decide their own future.',

thereby completely distorting what Ban meant. The UN has never said a territory has to reach a certain level of political maturity or development before its people should be allowed to make a decision on the territory's future. Article 3 of Resolution 1514 says:

'Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.'

When Ban says 'should have access to .... bodies' what he means is that the territory should have the means to exercise self-determination such as through a referendum or an election, and that the neither the metropolitan state or nor any other state should place obstacles to the exercise of self determination. And 'having independence or....territories' is the result of that act of self determination.

Tokelau voted twice on one of the 4 options, free association. Most voted for the option, but not in enough numbers to reach the required 2/3 majority. Tokelau remains on the list for that reason, not because Tokelauans are currently incapable of making a decision on their own future. And neither are the Falkland Islanders. If the referendum had been on some other constitutional arrangement between Tokelau and New Zealand (option 4), and had reached the 2/3 majority, and the C24 had not removed Tokelau from its list, it would have been in breach of its obligations.
67 Anglotino (#) Jan 28th, 2013 - 07:58 pm Report abuse
Hmmmm interest take on the world that DODO has.

Seems self-determination can only lead to independence.

Well we can cross any sort of law degree off his CV.
68 Doveoverdover (#) Jan 28th, 2013 - 08:29 pm Report abuse
@66 You don't like hearing it but here it is again. The stricture that inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence is directed at the administering power not at the community of nations.

@67 Cross it off. Add Politics and International Relations. There are others.
69 HansNiesund (#) Jan 28th, 2013 - 10:29 pm Report abuse
But curiously enough, the administering power has never attempted to invoke “inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness.” Only you have tried to do that, apparently on the grounds that the Falklanders aren't in possession of some mythical competency certificate issued by the UN.

Quite a classic piece of Malvinista logic.
70 Doveoverdover (#) Jan 28th, 2013 - 11:10 pm Report abuse
@69 There's no Independence Movement to baulk. So tell me, when's the UN sponsored Referendum scheduled and what;s the Question?
71 HansNiesund (#) Jan 28th, 2013 - 11:35 pm Report abuse
@70 ProRG_Kentishman

There are no baulked independence movements either, I believe, none baulked by the Brits in the last 50 years I can think of, at least. The competency argument, of course, was espoused largely by troglodytes white settlers now mostly extinct. Odd kind of company to find yourself in.

And where do you get this curious idea that UN benediction is a prerequisite for people to express themselves anyway? Has Fat Eck been told?
72 Doveoverdover (#) Jan 29th, 2013 - 07:55 am Report abuse
@71 Never mind your specious arguments, you can't even get your abuse factually right. Kentish Man indeed.
73 HansNiesund (#) Jan 29th, 2013 - 10:21 am Report abuse
@72 Pro_RG_ExRN_Scottish_Emigre_living_in_Dover

Sorry for the inexactitude. Is that better?

Speaking of specious arguments, can we go back a bit? You reported in post 51 that “the main UN bodies” harbour unresolved reservations as to the level of capacities of the Falkland islanders, calling into question the validity of the referendum.

Would you mind providing a reference? As far as I'm aware, not even the ProRG_Ecuadorean presiding the C24 has claimed the islanders don't have the capacity to decide their own fate. He only claims they don't have the right.

So I'm sure you'll forgive me for wondering just exactly which main UN body has reached this conclusion of incapacity, by what means, and by what right?
74 Doveoverdover (#) Jan 29th, 2013 - 01:54 pm Report abuse
@73 Still inexact, still specious. Never mind.

Is there a UN sponsored referendum organised yet? No? Why not?
Does the current Chair of the C24 believe that competence is an issue? No, clearly not since he is in the camp that says they don't have the right to choose. Fortunately, those who do have another interpretation to the impasse.
Did the UN SG make reference to UN criteria? Yes he did. Was he talking about decolonisation? Yes he was. Was he crystal clear? No he wasn't, he was being diplomatically and deliberately obscure.
Do you have the faintest idea of how and why International bodies like the UN, NATO, OSCE, EU and AU work on consensus? Evidently not.

My advice to you is stick to name calling and abuse, areas that you have some sort of affinity with, and leave the interpretation of international politics to your betters.

75 HansNiesund (#) Jan 29th, 2013 - 02:29 pm Report abuse
@74 The Man from UNCLE

Oh dear. I've only asked three times now, but it seems you're STILL not going to tell me what these UN competency criteria are, or how and by whom they are adjudicated?

But thanks for the revelation that international bodies work on consensus. There was I thinking they worked on horse trading, fudge, and constructive ambiguity. But even with that I remain astonished that there exists this anonymous body of yours whose mission it is to decide, apparently behind closed doors, who is competent enough to enjoy the sacred founding principles and who isn't.
76 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 29th, 2013 - 11:36 pm Report abuse

Obviously, The Man from U.N.C.L.E. is “Somewhere in South America”.

Good job. The 'rat' was getting angry when you backed him into the corner. :-D
77 Anglotino (#) Jan 30th, 2013 - 02:07 am Report abuse
I'm still trying to find the requirement that only a “UN sponsored referendum” is firstly required and secondly how self-determination is not shown by a non-“UN sponsored referendum”.

Seems someone has let their well-known bitterness and prejudices blind them till they argued themselves into a corner.

Perhaps the world goes on no matter what the UN thinks. Britons are hardly inconvenienced because a relatively unimportant UN committee thinks parts of her territory should be independent.
78 JohnN (#) Jan 30th, 2013 - 02:02 pm Report abuse
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