Timerman rejects meeting Falklands representatives; only interested in ‘bilateral round’ with Hague
Argentine Foreign Minister Héctor Timerman turned down an invitation by his British counterpart William Hague to take part in a meeting in London with representatives of the Falklands/Malvinas Islands government, assuring that “the international community does not accept the involvement of a third party” in the sovereignty issue.
In a letter directly addressed to the Foreign Secretary, Timerman acknowledged that he had been interested in holding a bilateral meeting with Hague during his next visit to London since “he is responsible for the United Kingdom’s foreign policy,” and regretted that he wouldn’t’ meet “without the supervision of the Malvinas Islands settlers.”
Earlier on Thursday the Falklands’ elected government in an official release said that two Members of the Legislative Assembly would be flying to London “to meet with Minister Timerman” who next week is scheduled to hold a Malvinas related event and had requested an interview with Hague.
According to the release Foreign Secretary Hague said he was delighted to receive Timerman but also pointed out that in any conversations on Falklands’ issues, representatives from the Falklands’ government must be represented.
“It is unfortunate that you reject a bilateral meeting. Your decision will surely affect Argentina’s interest in working with the United Kingdom in the G20, the UN Security Council, matters of nuclear proliferation, human trafficking, money laundering, drugs, investment, trade, human rights and many others in which both countries are active members of the international community,” he stated.
Timerman in his letter invites Foreign Secretary Hague to “visit Argentina and hold a bilateral meeting, so you can appreciate that our country is a true democracy where my foreign counterparts can meet freely with whomever they want without me pressuring them”.
“Finally, it is not necessary for you to keep attempting to make appointments during my coming visit to London, leave that for our very efficient embassy”.
Timerman is scheduled to visit London next week to meet with ‘figures’ from 18 European countries that support the resumption of the Falklands/Malvinas sovereignty talks.
On March 10/11 the Falklands are holding a referendum on the political status and future of the Islands which has stirred strong reaction from the government of President Cristina Fernandez. Timerman presentation at the Argentine embassy in London of February 6 and 7 is seen as part of the international campaign launched to try and discredit the referendum, with international observers based on the Islanders right to self-determination.
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FFS he asked WH for a meeting wot a knob, sometimes I think he talks so much shit he confuses himself
When he says the international community I think he means only Argentina.
It's good to see good old Tinman abusing human rights and showing who he truly is.
Shall we just deny him entry into the country?
Even my three year old daughter doesn't throw tantrums that bad...
what a tool and what a monumental clusterfrak on CFKs governments part.
“”“””the international community does not accept the involvement of a third party” “”“”“””
That would be the party that the UN acknowledge as having the right to self-determination - what an absolute tool.
CFKs got to sack the idiot for this disaster.
A Complete laughing stock.....
Ahahahahahahahahhahahhahahahahhjajajajajajajajjahahahahhahahhahahahha
Hahahahahhahahhaja......funny as hell
I'm really not sure now.
Nobody can be that stupid on purpose.
Complete Muppets!
You said it. There is no doubt that if the two actually met face-to-face, William Hague would have made him look like a hopeless loser...
Great b*tch slap from Hague though, take it laughing boy!!! Take it!!!
No way is he a mole...NOBODY can be that stupid ON PURPOSE.
When he next complains to the United Nations, the ambassador from the United Kingdom and the Falkland Islands representative will stand up and say that they offered talks, but Argentina wasn't interested.
Timerman forgets that it is TALKS that the UN suggested, ANY TALKS.
If Argentina does not want ANY TALKS, then they can go take a running jump, because the UN will tell them they were FOOLSs to turn down the talks.
He just bowled an easy ball into Hague's predictably straight bat, thereby giving the argentines another Two Minutes Hate and they forget the previous stain on his slippery character.
Now those argies just need a hate week.
+10pts thatcher-hague / -20pts timmersnake
Thank you for the offer of your “good offices” for discussions on how best to achieve one of the founding principles of the United Nations...that all peoples have the right to self determination.
However, we have offered the Argentine Foreign Minister our “good offices” in London and he refused even to meet with the very people he denys the fundamental right to....
We won't be offering again.
Thank you for your recent endorsement that we are breaking no resolutions, and that the Republic of Argentina broke one in 1982 at the cost of 900 lives.
Thank you also for your recognition that all people have the right to determine their own future.
P.s.
If you see CFk, please tell her that the Botox has made it look like her face has melted.
Best regards
William Hague.
I especially like the list of all the things he won't talk about if the UK won't discuss sovereignty, and tries to make out that the UK is personally responsible for them all...drugs, money laundering, global warming, asteroid strikes, alien invasion. Yes, it's all our fault. If we won't talk about sovereignty then Argentina will take all its toys away and not play any more AND THEN WE'LL REALLY BE SORRY. Not. How unbelievably childish.
As far as I can make out, the UK government never said it didn't want bilateral talks on any of those issues. It just said that Islanders had to be present if sovereignty was discussed.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahehehehehhehehehehehhehehehehehhehehahahahhahahahhahahahahha
Hector...you complete tool..!
Seems that some countries are destined to remain pathetic, third world jokes
And so say all of us…
Now go home Argentina,
No one wants you,
No one loves you,
No one likes you
No one supports you,
Go home.
Besides , hands up, all who will miss them .lol.
.Apparently the london dungeons are moving home, to the Argentine embassey
We offered you talks and your politicians simply tried to deny the human rights of the people who actually live there.
William Hague must be laughing hard at this latest blooper! Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!
It's unlikely that Timmerman would have his gold secured in Argentina, so he's probably got it in NY or Ldn. This whole charade was probably just to give him reason to come here and stroke it.
Are Argentina a G20 nation any more?
“Your decision will surely affect Argentina’s interest in working with the United Kingdom in [...] the UN Security Council”
Do Argentina have any military?
“matters of nuclear proliferation”
100% Argentine nuclear defense system?????
“money laundering”
does anyone want any pesos????
“trade”
protectionist Argentina? No thanks.
“investment”
What? Like YPF? Correct me if I'm wrong here, but aren't countries pulling out.
a true democracy where my foreign counterparts can meet freely with whomever they want without me pressuring them”.
//////////
[ except the Falklands islanders, because we are very envious of them ]],,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
“Finally, it is not necessary for you to keep attempting to make appointments during my coming visit to London
[[If this was not a direct , disrespectful insult of a guilty complex, we don’t know what is,]
//////////////////////////
Cristina Fernandez .and Timerman,
Are deliberately trying to illegally disrupt the free elections in the Falklands….
///////////////////////
Enough is enough,
They do nothing but insult, abuse , threaten , try to intimidate , ignore others opinion .
It is time the British government called time on this batman and robin duo,
Refuse him entry; throw their ambassador out, cut of diplomatic relations,
And give em a taste of there own medicos, and see how they like it,
If they with to act like spoilt uneducated empire land grabbing deluded children,
Then they should be treated as such.
Just my humble opinion..
.
He's a toothless little Tigger!!!!!!!!
we think you time has come, for the goverment to turn up the heat.
Well this should be good, looks like we will be invited or can go and meet freely ;)
“Finally, it is not necessary for you to keep attempting to make appointments during my coming visit to London, leave that for our very efficient embassy”.
Timerman is scheduled to visit London next week to meet with ‘figures’ from 18 European countries that support the resumption of the Falklands/Malvinas sovereignty talks.”
What is so hypocritical is that he wishes to talk about the Falklands dispute and thus the future of its inhabitants with anyone except the those people...er, um, what? Then he most rudely end by telling WH how to run his own office in his own country, talk about stupidity. Another thing I have noticed is the distinct lack of Malvanista trolls making any comments as their own 'man' has proved to be more stupid than they are...and thats going some. Not that we expected him to join talks with WH and Islanders anyhow, it was more a question of what excuse he would use to riggle out of it. This has just exceeded any of our expectations. Well done Tinman, you have just won the most stupid politician in the world award and there is plenty of competition. Ha ha ha.
It'll be a fun read for sure.
Although we may not be flavour of the month with our European partners at the moment, I have little doubt they will be more supportive to us than Argentina.
@14 I already contacted my MP. What we need is for every British person with access to an MP to do the same.
@34 I don't think he's coming on an “official” visit. So he would be treated as a foreign VIP, possibly with a diplomatic passport. However, it's only members of a diplomatic mission that have to present their credentials. The question I asked my MP was whether the activities at the argentine diplomatic mission are in line with acceptable diplomatic purposes.
I won't pressure them but I will send round the stromtroopers if they go anywhere near a tourist operators.
another exceptionally funny consequence of that statement is that Argentina now seems to regard the UN, as a third party, to no longer being recognized in this dispute.
Well, that's one way to end all that nonsense about the UK ignoring UN resolutions: they dont matter anymore..Argentina said so!
(what a prat)
Do we know or it this is as completely furked up as it looks?
I think we should be told.
My version :-)
SELF-DETERMINATION , you can have your cake and eat it :)) yum yum!
The more I read about this article, and read the comments on other argentine nationalist news outlet websites, the more retarded this gets. They basically ask for talks, then turn down talks, then come to the UK tell 18 unpowerful free-lunchers that they demand talks, then they go back to Argentina and say they didn't get talks when 504 resolutions say the UK should talk and then they say the UK doesn't want talks.
It's just utterly utterly utterly utterly utterly utterly utterly utterly utterly utterly utterly utterly utterly utterly utterly utterly utterly utterly utterly utterly utterly utterly utterly utterly retarded.
No lloras por mi Argentina!
:-D
I actually feel embarrassed FOR Argentina.
Have the Falklands on a standby web link. RG midget turns up, invited into big room, WH next to a huge telly with 2 smiling Falklanders on it waiting for him.
How fast do you think he could run for the door?
If that is what you want to talk about, then the FIG members will not be there. Simple equation really.
These are some actually serious global issues that ought not to be used as mere playing cards. But I have no idea about international politics I suppose.
As well, I'm no expert, but I don't think the UK will have much interest in working with Argentina anyway, so not much sleep lost there.
On the side, and to digress, Argentina is the most entertaining topic on this website by far. It has to be better for the Argentinians in the next administration, but still, in a way, I will always miss CFK.
Ha ha ha ha ha that was a funny one
Yes redpoll,just go to hell you and your country!
ahahaah MAlvinenses.NOOO BODY wants to talk to you..YOU ARE NOOOBODY....Only the excuse for the Pirates to control OUR RESOURCES.. we WILL DESTROY the brits murderers...
Your Spanish is as bad as my English.
We want to talk with the English puppeteer, William Hague, not the English puppet Dick Sawle.
Is always better to talk with the circus owner and not with the monkeys.
“Is always better to talk with the circus owner and not with the monkeys.”
Sure MA, don't know why you showed up, then.
Poor old Hector, with all this snapping of braces and parping on klaxons, it really is time somebody poured a bucket of cold water down his trousers.
Now, if all you are going to do is lie, a better use of your time would be to stay in Argentina and sort out KFC's messes.
I bet William Hague will still invite them to the FCO for lunch anyway just to discuss strategy and the way forward for the Islanders after the referendum.
They don't need a second rate, sock puppet, Foreign Secretary wannabe, making the place look untidy while they do that.
www.lanacion.com.ar/1550643-timerman-rechazo-sumar-a-los-kelpers-a-la-reunion-con-gran-bretana-mi-interes-es-bilateral
My favourite is...
“I apologize to the world to have this embarrassment representing us ...”
Please explain again what is “not acceptable” about talking to the elected representatives of people whose interests must be taken into account according to UN resolution 2065 relating to the Falklands? (not to mention the UN Charter etc...).
While a polite rejection may not have been stand up comedy material...the rant that came back is simply childish and deserves the mockery it is receiving from Britons and Argentines alike.
“Is always better to talk with the circus owner and not with the monkeys.”
I think you are getting the circus mixed up with the zoo. Animals are not things to simply be used for your entertainment.
But you might want to consider...
When one of the clowns likes the circus owner's daughter, he does not got and ask for the circus owner's permission to rape her. Getting to know the daughter is always the better option.
Logic is really a great tool to use. Argentina should try it.
Timmerman is as thick as two short planks .
As Richfe says , the comments section of the Nacion article is full of priceless quotes .
My favourite one : How can you expect a government that doesn't even listen to the views of its own people to listen to the views of the kelpers .
As for Tinpots threats , they are simply beneath contempt .
To which Timmerman replied “this is a seen by the international community as a bilateral issue, so no thanks”. What tosh, who elected him spokesman for the international community... nobody. What a numpty.
”No lloras por mi Argentina”
(87) redpoll
”Porteno”
I say…:
You have, until now, identified yourself as a British-Uruguayan…..
Judging by you erroneous Spanish verb conjugations and your failure in using the letter Ñ, I begin to ”Think” that you are telling porkies…..
Timerman has no clue. He walks into trap, after trap.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/9841388/Argentina-pulls-out-of-Falklands-talks.html
'Argentina declines invitation to Falklands meeting'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21288084
'Argentina Rejects Meeting Falklands Gov't'
www.turkishweekly.net/news/146955/argentina-rejects-meeting-falklands-gov-39-t.html
The Argentines are probably right, don't talk to the bespectacled clown talk to the morbidly obese ringleader.
Gerry Adams IRA supporter
Alex Salmond and Nichola Sturgeon fishy couple from Scotland
Morrisey clapped out tuneless whinger
Various assorted Spaniards who hate Gibraltar
George Galloway dictator lover
Various assorted Minor French politicians still seething about the Olympics
Sean Connely anti British Spanish resident
Bellesconi Italian clown
Various Eu nasties who resent British attempts at reform
What's your guess?
www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/feb/01/uk-disappointed-argentina-talks-falklands
Apparently the efficient embassy isn't very...
news.sky.com/story/1046136/falklands-row-groundhog-day-as-row-goes-on
Then that silly moo in the RG embassy!
“Massively disappointed” is diplomatic code for “can't stop giggling”
' A perfect delivery from Hague.'...
and twitman out for a duck..... Argentina all out for O...
You really should try and live up to your name
OH NO !!! URUGUAY ARE THE REAL OWNERS....
Of course their professional audience (other latam nations) will still be there clapping, but it will just make them look like imbeciles.
This is just utter fail for them, like shooting yourself in both feet, stumbling away and then shooting yourself in the throat.
They are total amateurs at diplomacy in fact at everything involved at diplomatic level. Surely outside of SA this is the final nail in their coffin regarding their outlandish claims over the Islands especially after the referendum vote in March.
The Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon must support the result of the referendum and publicly acknowledge the islands right to self determination.
In that case, why did the organ grinder(CFK) send her monkey for talks ?
Seems the MEP's carry more clout in Argentina than they do here. Ask people here who their MEP is and I will be suprised if less than 10% of them could give you an answer or even care that much about it either!
Feb 01st, 2013 - 07:54 am
Report abuse
@90 I understand that the meeting was at the request, delivered by their Embassy in UK, of the Argentinians. What they received back was not acceptable. Hardly stand up comedy material.
Do you have a link to support your “understanding” or are you just guessing again ?
Plenty for arg and fi to cooperate on and both are perfectly capable of getting on if some of the nationlist idiots got out of the way.
This book seriously weakens any case that Argentina may have.
The Falklands were Uruguayan!!!!
So an appeal broadcast to all you former Uruguayan cityzens down south
“Falklanders! Now is the time for all loyal subjects to come to the aid of your mother country, the Republica Oriental del Uruguay in common cause against the butcher bullies of Buenos Aires...”
Open mike . ”psst Pepe , what do I say next?
TTT (loving Toddler Tantrum Timerman @120) made a big mistake copying the letter to Ban Ki-moon. They never think things through do they?
@121 Quite so. Early tea I think.
@81 Tell you what, COWARD. Why don't you try your luck?
@84 Here's a thought, COWARD. Have you ever stood up? Or are you permanently on your belly licking shit?
@85 Sorry, COWARD. Neither the British nor the English understand monkey talk.
@93 Dozy twat. The request was BY the argies TO the British. What is it? What's your problem? Sand in your eyes? Shit in your ears? Worms in your mouth?
@103 Whassamatta? Too dumb to do what should always do? Keep your f***ing mouth shut! COWARD.
@109 There are always slugs in Europe. That's why we Brits have to go over occasionally and sort 'em out!
@126 Love it! But doesn't Twinky always? It's how he found out about black holes! Big, stretched, black holes!
Why we don’t always get it right, [Cameron
Gibraltar’s newspaper
Fresh incursion provokes irritation at The Convent
Gareth Gingell, the spokesman for the Defenders of Gibraltar, said that while the Governor’s stance was welcome, the message appeared not to be getting through to Britain.
“However his hands are well and truly tied.”
“In Gibraltar’s time of need, the UK are letting us down and abandoning us when we need them the most.”
“There can be no other interpretation.”
www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=27810
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
And so the comedy goes on,
Argentina ditches talks in Falklands row
www.bfbs.com/news/falkland-islands/argentina-ditches-talks-falklands-row-62688.html
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
HMS Queen Elizabeth Photographed in Build
Another day, another couple of images which hint at the sheer scale of the biggest warship ever built in Britain
www.royalnavy.mod.uk/News-and-Events/Latest-News/2013/February/01/130201-Sheer-size-of-HMS-Queen-Elizabeth
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Perhaps the time has come for Britain to stand up for British interests,
Rather than other peoples interest like Mali and Iran.
.
Well of course Spain cannot give away anything it does not own. Oh look I've just given the Seychelles to my best friend Roger and I've given him Majorca , cheers mate!
perhaps we should invite CFK to adrress parliment,
when will the games stop,
and the real britain, stand up.
www.mdzol.com/nota/446148-timerman-en-su-peor-momento/
www.gbc.gi/news/100/two-locals-arrested-by-guardia-civil-in-gib-waters
The Spanish seem to want an international incident, and I think the UK should give them one. They may think they are macho because they are armed, but the Guardia Civil is no mach for Royal Marines. Take them and their vessels, and if it escalates it would make Spain uninsurable as a budget holiday destination.
It would bring down their government.
Maybe if the EU ever falls apart there will be that silver lining.
you are right of course,
its only a matter of time,
144,
its nice you want bloodshed from thousands of miles away,
we do take it, you wont be involved,
perhaps you will be to busy fighting with the argentine mighty navy,
lolol.
@Vestige My friend Spain would collapse without the EU 28% unemployment believe me they are as desperate as the botox queenland SS Kirchner
Catalonia and the Canary Islands would no doubt then find the confidence to break away, with the Basques not far behind, and Spain would be no more.
This Spanish government is playing very dangerous games.
The Gibraltans are just going to have to get used to the fact that they live next to an economically, morally and socially bankrupt state and buy some better weaponry.
I just like to correct some of the deluded attitudes I've seen in here re; Gibraltar, delusions of grandeur.
Just a reminder as to why it still exists....paperwork, politicians chattering. Spain wouldn't fear a sea launched expeditionary force.
Even if it ever did make it to shore (nope) there'd be an armored greeting committee.
Sorry to break this to you.
It's only the EU that prevents it, yeah sure, the prospect of war with the UK might have something to do with it!
You do know what the EU is don't you?
Is the EU an unelected committee that gives Spanish fishing-mafia money not to fish, subsequently allowing them to take the money and then go fishing anyways in UK waters depleting all the fish stocks?
Is that a suitable summary?
However many marines or para's landed (unlikely landing) they won't have the numbers, equipment or support.
I just want to help certain folk in here by preventing them mutating into American teenagers/Texans.
Gibraltar is there by grace and civility.
(Even if they do eat local Spanish food and speak Spanish half the time, and look more Spanish than British and Spend a lot of time in Spain and buy local Spanish goods and use local Spanish services and watch local Spanish tv and have local Spanish friends and employ local Spanish workers and have only a tiiiny percentage more British family names)
Naturally the Falklands conflict is sovereignty. No self-determination. So what sets the United Nations resolution and the committee of United Nations Decolonization
C24 chair calls Falklands' referendum 'political ploy'; praises Argentine president
Read the following link:
en.mercopress.com/2012/06/16/c24-chair-calls-falklands-referendum-political-ploy-praises-argentine-president
I love the sweet smell of “the stinking Riachuelo”, specially when I go see my querido Boquita. You can pretend not to be a Brit all you want but to speak/write like an Argentinean you have a long way to go.
Malvinas Argentinas.
The foreign minister confirmed that the meeting in London agreed between Argentina and Britain's diplomacy “was among chancellors, not between citizens” and reiterated his refusal to participate settlers of the Falkland Islands in that game. That alternative was marketed as “sine qua non” of Britain and “we can not accept” because it said it would endorse “colonial law and international levels”, which is assisting the country through UN resolutions.
Read the following link:
www.pagina12.com.ar/diario/ultimas/20-213062-2013-02-01.html
That C24 story is 7 mos. old, Raul.
It has been discussed on here ad infinitum.
In contrast, Ban Ki Moon is the voice of reason in this dispute, and no matter what your biased Latin C24 Chair says, according to Moon and the UN Charter, the wishes of the Islanders, the inhabitants for 180 years, must be taken into account.
Please keep up with the others.
Sorry, but those who have 180 years in the Malvinas? Dick Sawle? Barry Elsby? Chileans? and that in the unlikely event that the few who can show him that lineage involving any special right.
I think you'll find that your foreign secretary / chancellor categorically refused to engage in talks concerning the falkland islands. The reasons for doing so are your own. However, the falklands, following the referendum, will be a BOT through free-association and therefore decolonised. That's not a political ploy but a political reality.
It's that simple, the Argentines refused to talk or give peace a chance.
The matter is now closed.
@163,160 Raul & Jose you know you both just look like sour fools by continuing to make statements. Everyone is now laughing at your chancellor and pointing at him knowing that he's just shot Argentina's whole argument out of the sky. We understand that this makes you sour, and that's fine.
Pretty embarrassing though, for bad losers.
Sour bad losers...
Man can not wait to see what they counter that with, what, they might get away with claiming that there is no right to self determination, with their cronies on the 24, but in the main chamber, I doubt it!
Maybe if the Mercosur ever falls apart there will be that silver lining.
How very honest of you.
And if that wasn't enough this completely powerless body of mostly horrid countries are and always will be trumped by;
1. Charter 1
2. The head of the UN who very recently stated he supported the people of the Falkland Islands and also stated categorically that the UK has breached no resolutions. In fact the only country here to do so is Argentina with its illegal invasion.
And if that wasn't enough if you think Tinman's response was good then you are either deluded or do not understand international diplomacy. With people like Tinman in power you have zero chance of bring about any changes.
So, as ever, game, set and match!
”Gibraltar is there by grace and civility.
(Even if they do eat local Spanish food and speak Spanish half the time, and look more Spanish than British and Spend a lot of time in Spain and buy local Spanish goods and use local Spanish services and watch local Spanish tv and have local Spanish friends and employ local Spanish workers and have only a tiiiny percentage more British family names)“
”Grace and civility.”? Let's not quibble that Gib was ceded in perpetuity. More importantly, you make the point that Gibraltarians are a distinct and diverse population. That given - why should they not have choice of destiny?
Mr Timerman, a former journalist and loyalist of Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner, was due to host a two day meeting of MEPs and Latin American politicians who support Argentina's bid to establish sovereignty over the Falklands through UN-sponsored talks.....'
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/9843015/Hagues-disappointment-as-Argentina-pulls-out-of-Falklands-talks.html
“On Friday, Mr Timerman mocked the vote as illegitimate.
”The referendum is illegal because the United Nations declared it to be a nation implanted since 1833 when London invaded and expelled the Argentine inhabitants,“ Mr Timerman said on C5N television. ”There is no country in the world that recognises British rights in the Malvinas,“”
He's absolutely losing it isn't he. There is one thing stretching the truth and the other telling downright lies which you are obviously going to get caught out with.
Does he not remember security council resolution 502 and 505 which both recognised the rights of the UK and the Falklanders?
WOW these Argentines really do think highly of themself.
Astonishing comments from tinman, he has lost the plot! Several untruths in his comments. Looks like the British FO has done a great job here, we should get a neutral UN representative to correct his lies, even the RG are saying he is a joke.
Have a read of the below if you haven't already ;)
'Héctor Timerman had only managed to harvest incessant criticism not only by relating the political spectrum, but also of much of society.'
www.mdzol.com/nota/446148-timerman-en-su-peor-momento/
It would be a shame if he did not come - I'd heard that he was to deliver a 'coup de grace' to the UK - parking the diplomatic car on double yellows and refusing to pay the fine.
Good news also - Iranian State News - Press TV , even though they refer to Falklands as Malvinas, acknowledge that the present population are settlers and not colonists. (Ooops - some journo is going to get knocked off a stool for that.)
www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/02/01/286658/no-meeting-with-malvinas-settlers/
“It's disappointing that #UK foreign secretary is blocking progress in #Malvinas sovereignity negotiations by trying to involve a 3rd party.”
3rd party? She can't even bring herself to name you guys - or spell the 'sovereignty' she likes to bang on about! Want to become an Argentine?
I'm starting to think it's a spoof as she got a reply from “Luis Vernet” within minutes and yet she only posts once a month. (plus she sounds idiotic)
Argentina once again shows the world that it DOESN'T want to talk at all.
I think the FCO are playing this one right. Calmly, quietly giving Argentina enough rope to hang themselves.
Next time they say they just want to talk, this moment should be remembered, and pointed out to them.
Only the Falkland Islanders can negotiate regarding sovereignty, and since the Argentine government refuses to acknowledge their existence, there will never be talks, and the world can see that it is Argentina doing all the blocking and walking away.
@163 - Jose
And how long has your beloved President and her performing monkey, Timmidman's families been in Argentina?
One generation? Two? Three at most?
In fact, it's a fair bet to say that out of the 40 million or so Argentine citizens, there are very few who can trace their lineage back in Argentina more than a few generations.
So your argument (if that what it actually is) is completely flawed, and very stupid.
Argentina is a nation born of colonialism. That makes all but about 500,000 people in Argentina immigrants. So that's 39 and a half million immigrants and their descendants living in Argentina today.
The Falkland Islanders are immigrants too, they have never denied it. But no one was living on the Islands when their ancestors arrived. Then a few murderous soldier's from the United Provinces turned up, and began to murder, rape and run riot, until HM Navy turned up and told them to leave. Which they did, without firing a shot.
After this, the Islanders got on with living their lives and building a unique community that is seperate and different from South America and the UK.
The UN and the UK will ensure that their way of life and their human rights are respected.
By the way Jose, nice Spanish name you have there. So you're an immigrant too.
Maybe the UK team can answer my question. Keep waiting.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/1509987/Stone-Age-tribe-kills-fishermen-who-strayed-on-to-island.html
They have no recognised sovereignty but I doubt their armed forces would make it past the beaches.
perhaps CFK would say thats ok, would she,
you deluded argie bloggers are lost in your own dreams,
still
what are the islands=
who has the islands =
what flag flies over the islands =
who do they wish to be =
BRITISH BRITISH BRITISH ..
who do they dislike =
who does not fly there flag over them =
who has never had them =
who will never get them =
who is very unwanted =
argentina, argentina = CFK losers .
I can hear is Yorkshire drawl as I type it. Huh, huh, well of course we are very disappointed, but the door remains open.
As our American friends would say, Diplomacy 101.
Priceless, cheered me up no end!
“I am waiting to hear why UK David Ca-Moron wants to keep diplomatic relations with this south american country?”
Because the 'country' is not the problem - but the government is.
He keeps claiming that Obama strongly supports Argentina's sovereignty claim. Nothing like making stuff up!
Foreign Minister Héctor Timerman said that his counterpart William Hague “not free” meeting with Argentina. Photo: Telam
Foreign Minister Héctor Timerman said today that in the UK “are handled with colonial law” while Argentina is governed by “international law”, referring to the bilateral meeting which was canceled after the British Foreign Office demanded the presence of inhabitants of the Malvinas Islands in the encounter....'
www.lanacion.com.ar/1550891-timerman-gran-bretana-cree-que-es-un-imperio
Nah mate, a problem is something that causes you to be concerned and be honest, we concerned about them?
Pariah State behaviour
That no matter what they do , what they say , who they say it to,
The British government says nothing, other than wants to be friends,
Every night these two sit in conferences scheming on their next insult,
Ah the frustration, lol.
.
ClaudioERuben
The Argentine government diplomacy is unfortunate. In fact, there has been no progress with the issue of the Falklands. By contrast, it has receded. There are two options, Britons blame or take responsibility for the failure. This fairy never totalitarian government and do more of the same will not lead to anything.
macarly
IF YOUR MANAGEMENT IS LIKE HE DID WITH “THE FRIGATE!” AND YOU ARE DOING WITH “” AMIA “” better get threatened to resign for incompetence.
anafas
If the Argentine government believes that we live in a democracy can believe Britain is an empire. -
dez261
Take out this clown. GB is making his play for q kelpers will recognize the rights of our territory. Q knowing us put ours we like to do it and not the result of whim and this inept compadradas.
hdiaz210
Britain is an empire, no doubt, the sad thing is YOU BELIEVE AMBASSADOR Timerman, when it is actually another puppet of Kristina
www.lanacion.com.ar/1550891-timerman-gran-bretana-cree-que-es-un-imperio
WHAT A JOKE !!!
HOW ABOUT EACH OF ALL THESE OLD POST WAR GUYS WHO DO NOT SEE FURTHER THAN THEIR PEED PUB. YOUR ARE LUCKY AMERICANS LIKE ME STOPPED THE GERMANS . SURE YOU COULD HAVE HANDLED BY YOUR SELF ?
BE REAL !!
Madame President what's it like to fight a losing battle??
the dead dont talk, rest my friend, rest in peace,
this is not the place for you..lol.
Calm down dear!
HTimerman, welcome committee is waiting for you at airport, by embassy, outside house. It will be just like the welcome you gave our pensioners from the cruise ships, but this time including Sacha Baron Cohen (Borat!) Should be entertaining
So how hypocritical would he look at the press conference asking for talks, when he has just turned down talks with William Hague.
He would look an even bigger idiot than he does now.
Americans like you didn't stop the Germans. South Americans like you stayed out of the war.
The British were fighting on their own for more than a year by the time the Russians and the US got involved.
The defeat of the Axis was a joint effort between the Allies. No one country can claim that it was all them. In fact, if the Russians hadn't tied up millions of German troops on the Eastern front, it is unlikely that even the combined forces of the US and British Empire could've won, just as it is unlikely that the Russians could've won without the US and British Empire and the rest of the allies.
It makes you a very small person to try and take credit for the sacrifices made by others.
Those people fought for the freedom of the world, and the right of people to determine their own futures.
It's a pity that Argentina has never had the guts to sacrifice themselves for the greater good. Perhaps that's why human rights don't actually mean anything to you, because you've never had the courage to do what is right.
And what is right, is allowing the Falkland Islanders to live in peace on their own land, without trying to steal from them. What is right is respecting the rights of the native Amerindians who are still being persecuted in Argentina.
You have no moral high ground to stand on, which is why the FCO is playing this the right way, and allowing Argentina to continue to put its foot in its mouth and show the world that your government is just a bunch of lying thieves, who have no interest in the rule of law, and no interest in the welfare and safety of the people of Argentina.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q5bnwPLrxg
Again, the OLD briton don't like to accept the fact that there is a solution to stop his dislike for Argentina...
.... if UK PM David Ca-Moron stop the diplomatic relations with my country!
But,......OLD briton has nothing else to do...
I suggest he starts looking for Zhivago.....uuuuuuhahaha!
Game set and match.
Why would any right-minded person want to stop their dislike of a festering armpit like Argentina? Get real!
Hector vs Willy, there only ever was going to be one winner.
What odds he doesn’t come to London at all!
@ 194 USsussie
Back again are we, and still drinking the furniture polish instead of taking your meds I see.
You know if you want these Anglos to like you, you are going to have to change your approach somewhat, or they are just going to keep on laughing at you.
Just a suggestion.
Argentina wants to treat the Falklands as pure territory to be exploited. The sad part of this is that the UN Decolonization Committee takes the same approach and also refuses to talk to the people living in these places (see pol-check.blogspot.com/2012/12/is-un-decolonization-committee-failing.html ).
The Brazilians did send a brigade that fought in Italy and by all accounts, fought bloody well. So technically the Brazilians have the right to consider themselfs as our brothers in arms and as you will agree, deserving of our respect. Then again mate, they are of Portuguese descent and one of our oldest allies! Knew there was something I liked about them.
Why is it the Brazilians seem to be doing so well, just a thought?
Maybe it's because we like winding you up.
Why doesn't YOUR country break off Diplomatic relations?
You lot are the ones with problems - we can just ignore you.
“Just think of the consequences if they sent someone who knew what they were talking about.”
The consequence would be that Argentina and Falklands would live in harmony as good neighbours.
The UK has complain of “argentine harassment”.
The UK don't like Argentina.
Why the brits keeps insulting Argentina?
The UK has the choice to stop the diplomatic relations if Argentina is so bad....but...mmm
it seems the UK has nothing else to do! old bloody rubbish english people!
and the dead rises again.
As for C24, it's reaching the point where the “colonial territories” are leveling off to those who are fine with the status quo, dread the alternatives, and do not want what C24 thinks is best for them. That it is acting as a friendly agent for two would-be colonizing states, Argentina and Spain is a perfect example if its growing anachronism at best, at worst a projection of an arrogant, unresponsive Great Blue Father. And notice in “John's” blog entry, that Indo-Freakin'-nesia's on the C24... I mean, come ON! Who would bet that East Timor has no chance of ever being involved . Contrarians like DoD (sorry guys, I s'pect he's not a fake Brit like “Pro-RG 'American'” from what I can see) may claim that decolonization is a ideal goal, and to some extent it ~is~, but only when it is feasible, convenient and above all, SAFE. And for the FI, I don't see how that would be the case. At some point the C24 will have to evolve its concept of a “colony” or “unintegrated territory” to better represent these fully voluntary quasi-independant territories, or die off while trying to live forever in 1961.
@215, fully agree there. Even a marginally competent FI foreign policy would have AR accepting its 1982 *permanent* moral loss of the territory and focus on developing mutually beneficial neighborly relations, not perfect relations, at times quite chilly, but nothing like this childish and tone deaf “gimme back my Sudetenland” crap.
Then again it might be that having lost that war, instead of trying to act like an adult and engage in reconciliation, you continue with your aggression towards us and you certainly do not need me to tell you, who I mean by us.
The lesson here is, leave us and you know who mean by us and we will leave you alone. There not difficult is it?
this will end in only one way.
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
and more humiliation for Argentina .
Hello Sussie - another change of name for your multiple personality disorder !
It's your crap government who are doing all the whining and complaining. You keep saying - no demanding- that the UK MUST TALK WITH YOU. Your government's bluff is called, then it's NO we are not going to talk. When you grow out of your adolescence we might even deign to talk with you.
Until then, dignified silence in public and hoots of laughter off stage.
If your last sentence was directed at me, then it is incorrect.
You said “ old bloody rubbish English people”
Old. At 71 I certainly am.
Bloody. Well I am bloody minded as are most of my compatriots..
Rubbish - that is a subjective judgement from someone who has never met me. May or may not be correct.
English? Although I have many English relatives and friends, I would not answer to that.
You can call me a Scottish swine but never an English swine !!!!!
So, if you wish to insult me in any future postings, please bear this in mind.
Thank you in anticipation.
now you will confuse her .lol.
What a prize chump you are. Your own government insult the brits, calling us thieves and pirates and malvinista posters do the same. We fight back, enough said!
@227 RC
18 years but hopefully not 28 stone
Damn you guessed! bloody oil costs me a fortune. Going in to hospital Monday to have an Hernia repaired. Jumped off the bloody wardrobe and slipped straight ou the window!!!!!!!!
LOL stop it please!!!
I'm sure you're getting old
Sussie
svt
Julia
Not the first
Etc
Etc
Etc,
all hot and bothered!!
You missed this part:
“Mr. Timerman said on C5N television. ”There is no country in the world that recognises British rights in the Malvinas,”
Nobody missed it. It's just too stupid to be worth commenting on.
By the way, you taking the 8:45am up to Paddington for cocktails at the Embassy, I'm sure he would love to meet an expat!
You can take the opportunity to hand over your dossier on your neighbours!
Welcome to the Twighlight Zone!
”Remember the reason for the Argentine claim.
From 1767 until 1811, the islands were under Spanish rule and continuously as a dependency of Buenos Aires. All governors were appointed by the central government and depended Spanish in Buenos Aires. So for 44 years.
Independence produced what is now the territory of Argentina in 1816, the nascent nation inherits naturally the territory of its own as a new nation which includes the Malvinas Islands (which always depended government of Buenos Aires).
The exercise of administrative actions continued with the new government in the most natural, from orders to Governor Jose de San Martin for sending convicts to the islands in 1816, requested authorization number of vessels and sealers, sending in Captain Jewet 1820 to take over the islands with a proclamation on behalf of the United Provinces, concessions to Luis Vernet, the creation of the Command, hunting legislation amphibians, etc., etc.
What happened since then in January 1833?
Nobody knows what authority appeared his Majesty's ships claiming the crown for the Malvinas. One pure act of plunder, piracy, robbery and theft.
With multiple XVIII century treaties and voluntary abandonment of Egmont and in peace and verified in 1774, Britain recognized Spanish sovereignty. Why go back 59 years later?
The answer is the British ambition and strategic position of the islands.
When they proposed encroachment (which was not otherwise) to the “David Cameron” of then, is the Duke of Wellington in 1829, Prime Minister said:
“I have read the documents regarding the Falkland Islands. Not at all clear to me that we never ever held sovereignty over these islands.”
And pretend that Argentina waiver Argentine Malvinas Islands?
And intend to accept the False-Self-determination of the people who came after the theft and usurpation?”
237 Jose 'Not at all clear to me that we never ever held sovereignty over these islands' ..... exactly
Heres what Wellington actually said, you have deliberately changed the word 'ever' to 'never'. Typical Argentine dishonesty your not the first nor the last to attempt this fraud.
July 25th, 1829 the British Prime Minister, the Duke of Wellington states ” It is not clear to me that we have ever possessed the sovereignty of all these islands. The convention certainly goes no farther than to restore to us Port Egmont, which we abandoned nearly sixty years ago. If our right to the Falkland Islands had been undisputed at that time and indisputable, ... .... That which I would recommend is that the government of Buenos [Ayres] should be very quietly but very distinctly informed that His Majesty has claims upon Falklands Islands and that His Majesty will not allow of any settlement upon, or any cession to, individuals or foreign nations of these islands by Buenos Ayres, which shall be inconsistent with the King’s acknowledged right of sovereignty. I think that this is all that can be done at present. It will have the effect of impeding any settlement or cession by Buenos Ayres and as we may suppose that the French and Americans will hear of this communication they will not be disposed to act in contravention to it unless determined upon a quarrel with this country.”
The repossession in 1833 was was based on and completely in accord with the norms of international law.
A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
John F. Kennedy
Roy Orbison, Running Scared
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH-AafkQPEo
“Nobody knows what authority appeared his Majesty's ships claiming the crown for the Malvinas”
Interesting is your perception that its legally correct for your nation to take a unilateral action with use of armed militia. But, a nation with an already recognized claim cannot respond in the same way, in defense of its claim.
Heres the authority given to the British Government by a qualified international law expert.
July 28th, Sir Herbert Jenner’s legal opinion is given; “ the symbols of property and possession which were left upon the islands sufficiently denote the intention of the British Government to retain those rights which they previously acquired.”
On 28 February 1828 he was appointed king's advocate-general, and knighted on the same day.
Oh dear, José Barmpot, my senile old foe; you really are 51 playing cards short of a full deck if you freely put your name to that deluded and demonstrably revisionist bullcrap.
For starters, you claim: “Independence produced what is now the territory of Argentina in 1816”
Have you ever taken a look at a map of Argentina in 1816? I am suspecting you haven't; because, if you had, then even that withered little acorn you call a brain couldn't fail to notice that what is now the country of Argentina isn't anything close to resembling the territory that declared independence. Not only has it added more than 1.5 million square kilometres of territory, through violent colonialist expansion and ethnic cleansing, in Pampas and Patagonia; but at the time of declaring independence, the closest point in Argentina to the Falklands was more than 1,700 kilometres distant.
Just in case you need a little reminder, here is a map .. and as even you can see, Argentina barely stretched any further south than the city Buenos Aires and didn't even include the vast majority of what is now the province of Buenos Aires: .en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mapa_ARGENTINA_frontera.png
As for you preposterous claim that “the nascent nation inherits naturally the territory of its own as a new nation which includes the Malvinas Islands (which always depended government of Buenos Aires)” ,there are thee major flaws in that clueless drivel:
1) Prior to independence, the Spanish claim to the Falklands was governed from Montevideo (which was then the capital of the Spanish Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata) .. so if there was any grain of truth to your torture of international law - which thee isn't - that would make the Falklands a Uruguayan territory, not Argentine.
2) The Falklands were never territorially contiguous with the newly independent Argentina (nor even the former Spanish Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata)
3) Even if the Falklands had still been a part of the Spanish Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata in 1816 – which the ween't – that still wouldn't have obligated the Falklands to have become a part of the festering armpit that became Argentina - nor even a part of Uruguay or Bolivia - because the Islands would have had exactly the same right to self-determination that was claimed by the peoples of the United Provinces.
So stick that in your over-sized Gaucho hat.
They signed either because they believed that all issues had been settled or they were crap at reading what they were about to sign - you can choose whichever version you want.
If the Falkands was the “elephant in the room” why the hell did they sign it?
whoa...whoa.. whoa.....time out dude...... lets come back to earth and talk about it like you want to talk about it. You do want to talk about it, right? I mean, isn't this what all this is about, you want to talk about it?
Canada? Australia? New Zealand? The member countries of the European Union? The other member countries of the Commonwealth of Nations?
You say….:
”At the time of declaring independence, the closest point in Argentina to the Malvinas was more than 1,700 kilometres distant.”
And…:
”Argentina barely stretched any further south than the city of Buenos Aires ……..”
I say….:
You are wrong, of course……….., as so many times before.
Hereby, for your kind info, a link to some 300 pages of documentation of 18’th century Spanish colonization along the coast of Patagonia….
www.academia.edu/2484843/Arqueologia_e_Historia_en_la_colonia_espanola_de_Floridablanca_-_Patagonia_siglo_XVIII
Please, educate yourself before embarrassing yourself…..
MVH
El Think, Chubut, Argentina.
But again, your argument is wholly flawed.
1) the islands were never wholly administered by Spain
2) the islands had a British population prior to and concurrent with the Spanish
3) the fact that under Spain the islands were administered by BA is irrelevant and doesn't automatically give any independence claiming Argentina the sovereignty.
-Britain administered Aden from Bombay, Aden wasn't, isn't and never has been claimed by India
-Spain had evacuated the islands long before Argentine independence, and even longer before the United Provinces “claimed them”, and longer still before the first UP militia actually tried to camp there.
4) as explained above, the only UP people on the islands in 1833 had been there less than 2 months. They had already murdered and raped. This was a militia, the islands werent “stolen” from them....as by your other rules...they couldn't have been islanders as they weren't born there....no Argentine has ever been born there.
5) again, as above, you claim that Argentinas borders are defined by what it inherited upon independence from Spain. So, when you return Patagonia to the indigenous original population, then perhaps you would appear such a screaming hypocrit.
So,
1) Spain had evacuated the islands and therefore given up sovereignty BEFORE you claimed independence
2) No Argentine has ever been born on the islands
3) those evicted in 1833 were mutineers, murderers and rapists and had been there less than 2 months...they weren't islanders
4) Leave Patagonia you screaming hypocrite
5) any wafer thin claim to being hard done by (there isnt a sovereignty claim) was ended FOREVER in 1982 when YOU invaded and cost the lives of 900.
PLEB
300 pages?
In Spanish?
You know this is an English language site, right?
If you are going to dispute what Vuggevise has said, how about being specific and confront his logic?
You can use the link as a reference.
You want to disparage his remarks, yet you are too lazy to make specific reference!
Why should anyone plough through 300 pages looking for your point, when you can't be bothered yourself?
Or are you tired of defending your alternate history??!
@149 How can you be civil and enlightened as you encourage tens of thousands of Spanish numpties to commit suicide?
@155 Who mentioned “landing”? We're talking Ground Zero!
@157 Why are quoting an Ecuadorian twat? Try this: en.mercopress.com/2012/06/20/wikileaks-assange-holed-in-ecuadorian-embassy-and-asked-for-political-asylum And he's still there!
@160 More argie crap. Loved the article. Is that what tinpotman thought he ought to have said?
@163 And what's your “lineage”, murderer?
@182 Oh, we generally keep up “diplomatic relations”. Right up to the date the war starts. Remember how we maintained “relations” with the Nazis right up to the day?
@197 Is your keyboard stuck? There is NO independence in south america. Or have you forgotten Paraguay and mercosur? Americans like you? Americans like YOU do a number of things quite well. You run. You surrender and you die. Even “the best” of Americans were over 2 years late. Too busy scratching their asses. Until THEY got attacked and realised they needed help!
@206 There's a better solution. If one gets tired of listening to whining, ELIMINATE the source!
@216 BUT, you not only deserve it, you LIKE it. That's why you keep asking for it. Either that or you're dumb. You choose.
@232 Of course there is no country in the world that recognises British rights in the Malvinas. Because the Malvinas don't exist! Go back and ask who recognises British rights in the Falklands! I'll give you a start. Canada does.
@237 Wrong! As you've been told before. Not enough room to go through it again. Make it up. It's what you usually do!
@240 Excellent! Is there a web link?
@246 Oh, beautiful! More links please.
@250 Oh dear, Twinky, have you not grown up yet? Quoting something authored by by an argie lia.... sorry, academic! Funded by the argie “government”. Your mark is D-. Comment? Must do better. Three weeks extra homework!
Really Think, you'll have to do better than this.
You are the one who should educate himself. You should cleanse your mind of all those malvinista lies a begin afresh.
You know that Argentina did not occupy Patagonia until after the British began settling the Falklands just as you know that the Falklands do not belong to Argentina.
You are a devious, lying old hypocrite(said with the ghost of a smile!)but l like jousting with you.
l like being able to defeat your ridiculous malvinista arguments!
And BsAs is not getting any closer to us.
Please don't confuse English towns with countries.
www.pocklingtonpost.co.uk/community/nostalgia/pocklington-mayor-s-falkland-islands-trip-1-3530365
Never tire of reading about this
It was invaded by Argentina in 1982 who dispute the islands’ sovereignty. However, the invaders surrendered three months later having been driven back by the British forces.
I think you are the one who is deeply confused.....
There is much claim that the Governor is a UK person, so this should be acceptible by Argentina.
Equally, he is arguably the best informed of the UK/FI team of specialist diplomats wrt TFI. This solves the Argentinian issue, re. bilateralism and dealing with the UK,
it solves the FI requirement of it being involved,
and meets the UN recommendation that talks be undertaken.
I guess Timerman could meet up with the Governor within a couple of days.
Sorted .. everyone's happy.
Thanks, Marcos!!
That was a very enjoyable read.
What a strong connection the common cause of the Falklands had forged!
You say....:
“ l like being able to defeat your ridiculous arguments”
I say...:
You haven't even been close, ever, to counteract any of my arguments, honey.........
(259) GeoffWard2
You say...:
“Is there any reason why the bilateral debate should not be conducted, on behalf of the UK, by representatives of the Falklands - eg. by the Governor?”
I say......:
No, there isn't................
Your BOT Governor can meet our Provincial Governor............ anytime.
Your Foreign Minister can meet our Foreign Minister............ anytime.
As you probably know, HE Mr. Hague has been invited to Argentina.
[they talked to us, therefore must admit we have a claim crap]
Never trust em,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Besides,
A Question of ethics.
1, if Argentina claims that the Falklands are argentine and thus belongs to them,
And thus they have a valid claim,, ]
2, then, the reverse must also be true,
,,,,
3, The Falklands can thus claim that argentina is a part of them and thus a valid claim, could be submitted to the UN that Argentina is in fact Falklands island territory,
4, and just for the sheer hell of it, and for the utter sake of bloody mindedness and total confusion,
The Falklands islanders, and or the British government, should at the earliest opportunity put in a claim to the UN , and Fxck em all up.
Just a wickedly nice thought .lol.
.
On the other hand, the case has always been considered like a special colonial situation, in fact, i recommend you to search in the news archive of this website, what was expressed by the president from the decolonization committe, respecting the application of the right to self determination for the population from the islands, the date is june 14th or 15th 2012.
Anyway, beyond what is expressed by the u. n., our govt. should take into account the wishes of the islanders, to find a solution for this conflict, without renouncing to our claim, in order to try to find a solution that satisfies all the parts.
Many hipocrite people in this forum accuse arg. of wanting just one outcome for this dispute, which is the total submition of the islands, to the sovereingty of our country, however, at the same time, they express that they are disposed to discuss about different issues with arg., but not about the sovereignty, although those hipocrite don't want to accept it, for the islanders, there is also just one outcome, which is the renounce of arg. to our claim for the sovereignty of the islands.
The day that many of you leave your hipocresy behind, you'll realise that beyond what our const. says about our claim, if the u. n has never asked the u. k. to return the islands to arg., although it decides to resume the negotiations, and the islanders manifest that they want to remain under british govt, arg., won't be able to force them to accept our sovereignt only.
Jan and Dick were completely upfront about why they were going; they wanted to be on hand in case the subject of sovereignty came up, because the UK government will not discuss sovereignty without Islanders present. They were ready for a 'frank exchange of views'.
There is no hypocrisy from our side. We have never made any secret of the fact that we will not discuss any change to our sovereignty, and we have never offered to discuss it.
On the other hand, Argentina keeps on and on asking the UK for 'discussions' on sovereignty, whilst simultaneously saying they won't accept anything other than the transfer of sovereignty. The UK government keeps saying that the sovereignty of the islands is not in their gift AND YOU JUST AREN'T LISTENING.
You need to understand this. I hesitate to speak for anyone else, but basically, we think your claim is utterly worthless. We aren't going to give up any part of what we are to satisfy your worthless claim. Why should we? You wouldn't.
Oh and the C24 isn't 'the UN'. Its a bunch of Argentine cronies. Nowhere, ever, has the UN said that the right to self determination doesn't apply to the Falkland Islands.
Wanting to see some sort of justice, that is some rules that can be applied to all people everywhere fairly, is not hypocrisy. Argentina's deluded state about its history, in relation to how it treats (and wishes others to treat) the Falklanders, is.
”Timerman in his letter invites Foreign Secretary Hague to “visit Argentina and hold a bilateral meeting, so you can appreciate that our country is a true democracy”
Yet Timmidman you won't meet people who are elected by a' true democracy'.
A very confused man, seemingly of a schizophrenic nature.
That's only your biased opinion, Dear Think.
l “think” that l've countered you pretty well. Not like your good self who either wriggles out of a situation or doesn't even answer it at all.
Of course you can always fall back on the insults.
lt seems to be an Argentine trait, then get snaky when you get insulted back.
Keep trying Dahling, you'll see the light one day!
@264 Axel,
Usual drivel from Axel. Not worth replying to.
Axel, don't you get tired of typing out all the garbage & lies that you do?
ldiota.
You have one of these? Which province do you recommend?
I'm sure he would be most welcome as a representative of a foreign nation;
tea, biscuits and a fire-side chat.
Tell him to nip over on a plane ... but tell him to let them know first, we don't want an accident.
I think Axel gets paid by the word, so the more he types, the more wine and sausage sandwiches he gets.
It's a good job La Campora don't pay on the quality of the post, otherwise our La Campora trolls would probably starve to death.
Yes Geoff, we got 23 of these
I would “Think” that the “Natural Choice” ist the Province of Tierra del Fuego, Antártida e Islas del Atlántico Sur governed by Fabiana Rios..
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Provincia_de_Tierra_del_Fuego%2C_Ant%C3%A1rtida_e_Islas_del_Atl%C3%A1ntico_Sur_%28Argentina%29.svg
I'm positive that your British BOT Governor, Mr. Nigel Haywood would be most welcome as a representative of a foreign nation to mate, tortas fritas and a fire-side chat.
Tell him to nip over on a plane ... tell him not to worry.... we don't “make” those kind of accidents any more.
There is no dispute just the 'Great Malvinas Lie' which has been around since the time of Peron. The dispute whatever it was, was settled in 1850 after Argentina signed the 'Convention of Settlement' peace treaty where relations between Britain and Argentina were restored and both countries acknowledged that they no longer had ANY outstanding differences. Although the 'Convention of Settlement' does not specifically mention the Falklands, it is a pronciple that in a peace treaty ANY matters not mentioned are fixed in the state that the treaty was signed. And then Argentina didn't make another sovereignty protest until 1941. Yes 1941. Sovereignty protests are considered defunct when there is a gap of 50 years or more between protests. The 3,000 Falkland Islanders DO have the right to self determination. The Falkland islanders do not wish to become part of an Argentine colony just like the people of the Canary Islands do not wish to become part of Morocco.
:-)
The tin man awaits on twitter. Please go easy on him as he may have a dicky ticker.
Nigel and Fabiana could really do diplomacy well together,
but they should remember that mate is a noun, not a verb.
So..... you got my play with words....
Fabiana could easily get that Briton to “Hike the Appalachians” ;-)
Play with words, or a typo?
Can never be sure of the truth with you, Think.♥
And where exactly would that typo be, you silly squatter bint?
You are mistaken, Sr. Think.
Though he be a diplomat, he is also an Englishman and, as such, he has a trained upper lip. Neither hiking nor yomping (extreme hiking) would be on his agenda.
Also, I have seen her picture, so it is academic ;-)
If you don't have enough intellectual honesty, you can't discuss about something so complicated like politic issues are, if you just criticise the argentine posture, and don't make any critic to your side, then it means that you are just buying propaganda.
If i decided to investigate, is because i have never believed in our official history.
While it is true that our claim wasen't continuous, due to between 1850 and 1885, and between 1884 and 1941, there were intervalls in our claim, it is also true that between 1884 and 1888, arg. suggested taking the case to the arbitration, and the u. k. rejected that proposal, beside, in 1947, the u. k. manifested arg. that it would be disposed to take the question of the south goergia, and sandwich, to the i. c. j., but it didn't include the islands in the proposal. On the other hand, despite the intervalls in our claims, in 1968, 1974, and 1980, the u. k. tried to find a solution for this conflict with arg. Beside, the agreement of 1850 didn't have anything to do with our claim for the islands.
What must be taken into account, is the context, during XIX and for more than 100 years, arg. had a very big economic dependence with the u. k., so, it was obvious that our country wasen't in conditions for claiming.
If you want to discuss about this case seriously, you should take into account all these facts too, instead of telling just what is convenient for you.
You can think whatever you want about the president from the decolonization committe, like it or not, he was very clear respecting the reasons why self determination is not applicable for the islanders.
On the other hand, accept it or not, every time you express that you are dispossed to discuss about different issues, but not about sovereignty, which is the main problem, you just show once and again that for you, there is also just one outcome, the same that you you criticise to arg.
“@279 Think,
Play with words, or a typo?
Can never be sure of the truth with you, Think.♥”
Yep, I think you caught him out, as well.
:-P
Now everyone can get on with things.
You say...:
”Also, I have seen her picture, so it is academic ;-)”
I say....:
Ain't the beauty supposed to be inside? ;-)
Oh just be quiet & go away, you stupid irritating little man.
Disappear with a poof!
@281 Think,
Oooooooooooooooooohhhh! old man, craaaaaaankeeeeeeee!
Touch a raw nerve did l?
Come on Think, admit that you're wrong! Be a man.
And you're wrong anyway. We have a perfect right to this land, while you & your ilk are the Squatters.
Now go & drink your morning coffee, Think & try to be a good boy for the rest of the day!♥
and yet he was totally wrong:
”A number of states have laid claim to territories, which they allege were removed from them as a result of colonialism. This is justified by reference to Paragraph 6 of UN Resolution 1514(XV), which states that any attempt “aimed at partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter”. This, it is claimed, applies to situations where the territorial integrity of a state had been disrupted by colonisation, so that the people of a territory subject to a historic territorial claim are prevented from exercising a right to self-determination. This interpretation is rejected by many states, who argue that Paragraph 2 of UN Resolution 1514(XV) states that “all peoples have the right to self-determination” and Paragraph 6 cannot be used to justify territorial claims. The original purpose of Paragraph 6 was “to ensure that acts of self-determination occur within the established boundaries of colonies, rather than within sub-regions”. Further, the use of the word attempt in Paragraph 6 denotes future action and cannot be construed to justify territorial redress for past action. An attempt sponsored by Spain and Argentina to qualify the right to self-determination in cases where there was a territorial dispute was rejected by the UN General Assembly, which re-iterated the right to self-determination was a universal right.”
“ It's fascist to not listen to the points of view of others ”
The Vice president quoted in all RG papers and TV media yesterday in response to the heckling he got whilst giving a speech marking the anniversary the Battle of San Lorenzo .
He forgot to add “ Unless the others are implanted Brit colonisers who happen to have lived in the FI for longer than 98% of Argies have lived in Argentina ”
If you don't believe what i say, you can search in the news archive of this website, what the president from the decolonization committe said, about the reasons why self determination is not applicable for the people from the islands, i understand that you, and many others people can agree or not with what he sayd, however, like it or not, he's the president from the decolonization committe, and he has much more knowledge than we all, in order to argue the reasons why self determination can't be applied for this cause, the date is june 16th 2012, i was wrong in my others comments, when i typed the date of the note.
On the other hand, you omit that this cause has always been considered like a special colonial situation by the u. n., in fact, if you get into the website of that institution, you won't find any resolution which says: application of the right to self determination for the population from the malvinas-fakland islands, like there are for others populations, who live in territories which are considered like non-self governing territories.
I recommend you also to search in the archive of this website, the statement by councellour norma edwards, before the u. n., where she complained about the way that the u. n. has always considered this cause, and about the lack of application of the right to self determination for the population for the islands, the date is june 24th 2010.
Anyway, beyond the considerations of the u. n., in relation to this case, i have always said that the wishes of the islanders should be taken into account also, in order to find a solution for this dispute, it's not imposible to think about a solution that includes their wishes, and the sovereign claims of argentina, which satisfies all the parts.
Argentina c/o CFK has now lost any argument in the UN .
end of. no exuses , finito , lol.
In the eyes of International law, the Argentines lost any reasonable chance for negotionation when you caused a war and lost. You now just turned down discussions as an interested third party, for your own reasons.
There are no second chances, it's all over, and now you should get on with your life.
Thanks.
Ban-Ki Moon has said many times the Falkland Islanders do have the right to self-determination, most recently in an interview with La Nacion.
He also wrote to the C24 committee a year ago reminding them that their only purpose was to guide the territories towards self-determination.
All 10 of the BOT listed with the C24 have written to the committee telling them they want to be de-listed now. It will not be long before the other non-British territories do the same.
Soon you will have a committee which the administering powers no longer attend as they no longer have any colonies. And the territories no longer attend as they are in dispute with the committee.
The committee does not have long to live, the UN does, as Ban-Ki Moon has already said, recognise the right to self-determination for all the territories including the Falklands.
And anyway how can Argentina realistically argue the Islanders have no rights after 180 years, when over half of the territory that today you call Argentina, was only conquered and occupied by Argentina 130 years ago.
If you don't believe what i say, you can search in the news archive of this website, what the president from the decolonization committe said, about the reasons why self determination is not applicable for the people from the islands“”“”
I dont need to, I read them.
I think the problem lies with your basic misunderstanding that the C24 is either well informed or represents the UN as a whole - it isnt and doesnt.
The C24 chair is not entitled to even say that comment, let alone have it regarded as de-facto UN policy, because it isnt: he cannot rule on such matters, he doesnt speak for the general assembly and the general assembly are the only ones who can make that decision.
Spain & Argentina tried to go down that route previously and the GA kicked it out.
You need to stop just repeating propaganda and check out who these committee members are and what powers they have, or in this case; do not have.
As per my posabove: the GA have already kicked into touch this attempt.
fat lady hath sung.
Quite correct, they ruined any chances for “negotiations” when they invaded in 1982.
Now they have the gall think that we will just roll over & give them what they want!
lf they couldn't get it by war, how on earth do they expect to succeed by lying to the UN or anyone else?
They've been clamoring for “talks”(about what? there is nothing to talk about)& when talks are offered, they decline!
Truly the actions of unstable, paranoid people.
Strange people, we want nothing to do with them.
@292 Axel,
l see that you are still lying Axel.
Most of what you say is rubbish.
We ARE satisfied & as you have NO RIGHTS here, then we don't care whether you are satisfied or not.
Thank you.
Timerman insists he wants to talk to the British Government about some imaginary islands he thinks belong to him. He's politely informed that he's confused and mistaken, that there are some people he needs to speak with, and they're willing to explain the situation to him. Timerman ignores this, flys to London and makes a public nuisance of himself, ranting like a deranged vagrant.
For his own sake, Timerman should have been formally sectioned under the Mental Health Act, examined by a psychiatrist, duly certified mentally unwell, medicated, parcelled up and sent back to Argentina with an explanatory note and a certificate.
“the agreement of 1850 didn't have anything to do with our claim for the islands”
Is refuted by all international jurists such as:
2S8 TREATY OF PEACE.
14. The treaty of peace leaves every thing in the state in which it found it, unless there be some express stipulation to the contrary. The existing state of possession is maintained, except so far as altered by the terms of the treaty. If nothing be said about the conquered country or places, they remain with the conqueror, and his title cannot afterwards be called in question.
ELEMENTS INTERNATIONAL LAW. With A SKETCH of the HISTORY OF THE SCIENCE.
By HENRY WHEATON, LL.D. resident minister from the United States in America the court of Berlin; 1836
If the right to self determination is the only one alternative to solve this dispute, and if that right is perfectly applicable for the population from the islands, then why has this case always been considered like a special colonial situation?, why if any of us gets into the website of the u. n., we won't find any resolution which says: application of the right to self determination for the population from the malvinas-falkland islands, like there are for others population who live in territories considered like non self-governing territories?, why there is not any resolution which includes the govt. from the islands as a third part?. Accept it or not, the case is treated every year before the decolonization committe, if you prefer invaliding it, because it's resolutions don't coincid with your opinions, sorry, but it's irrelevant.
Some people in this forum accuse me of repeating propaganda, however, i have aways recognized that the case has strong and weak aspects for both nations, due to i have always investigated and i continue doing it, because i have never believed in our official history. Beside, i have always defended that the wishes of the islanders should be taken into account too. However, many people in this forum have never criticised anything of the u. k.'s posture, and have always repeated the tipical monolitic statemente of the british govt., so, who is the one who repeats propaganda, me or many of you?.
Regarding the ignorant comparison that many of you do, when you refer to the genocide that our country committed to the originary populations, when it occupied the patagnia, you ignore that our constitution includes their claims and rights, which is a true historic reparation, that's something that the u. k. has never made for arg., for having deprived it cowardly from the islands in 1833, because unfortunatelly in some aspects, it still behaviours like a thief.
What was the outcome? Having invaded the Falklands , the UN in its judgement said that the troops must leave, this was ignored by the Junta. Now you want the UK to abide by the non binding resolutions of the UN. Your all nuts. Why on earth would we do that. Possession is nine tenths of the law, get over it.
It’s not considered a “special case” in any way by Ban-Ki Moon, who has said they do have the right to SD. The C24 exceeds is authority when it tries to decide “who” has the right to SD, its only purpose is to guide the territories (all of them) on the list to “self-determination”.
The UN resolutions are decades old, do not reflect the present, and are long dead. The C24 is soon to be dead, who decides when a territory is de-listed is about to be tested.
My money is on the territories winning.
Your argument may well be accurate about resolutions and the C24, but it’s not current thinking.
Tinpotman is currently demonising the Islanders, and trying to convince the world that they do not have the same rights as everyone else.
Good luck with that. Anybody heard of Patagonia.
The things he, and others in Argentina, say about the Islanders, the names they are called, is actually quite chilling.
The fact that tinpot is now saying them on and international stage is going to win the argument for the Islanders.
You are wrong again, Axel.
We are not a “special case” & these are NOT your lslands.
You have NO RIGHTS here & we will NOT “negotiate”.
Timerman is complete plonker but he's actually helping us with his lies.
As Pugol-H says, more people in the world are now taking notice & are realising that Argentina has no case & has NEVER owned these lslands.
The UNGA resolutions that you are fond of quoting are expired & were recommendations only.
The UNSC Resolution #502 was binding & Argentina refused to comply.
So stop posting irrelevant articles, Axel, & realise that you have absolutely NO RIGHTS & no hope in OUR country.
Hope this helps to straighten out your thoughts.
Read Tinpot’s latest comments, as reported in the BAH:
www.buenosairesherald.com/article/123643/uk’s-intransigent-position-on-malvinas-smells-like-petroleum’
Note the part about, “it won’t take that long to find a final solution.”
Your argument is academic, but the issue here is moral. They have exactly the same rights as you do in Argentina.
Especially when you consider that they are not actually an “inplanted population”, but Argentina is, and most of it more recently than Las Malvinas.
Simply not an argument you can win on any level. At best you will end up proving that you have no legitimate claim to Patagonia and Tierra del Fuego.
www.facebook.com/HonourRestored
You can reject as much as you like the fact that this case has always been considered like a special colonial situation by the u. n., that's your problem. Anyway, i suggest you searching in the news archive of this website, what was expressed by councellour norma edwards before the u. n., where she complained about the way that this cause has always been considered by the decolonization committe, and about the lack of application of the right to self determination for the population from the islands, the date is june 24th 2010.
On the other hand, can you give unless one argument to explain me why don't we have any rights over patagonia?.
Beside, nobody is demonising the islanders, the u. k's monolitic excuse about emphasizing the right to self determination for the islanders, is just colonial hipocrsy, because we all know, including the u. k. that self determination has never been applied for this cause.
Anyway, the situation is much more complicated, while it is true that self determination has never been invoked in any of the resolutions that refer to this case, it is also true that the u. n have never asked the u. k. to return the islands to arg., so, in my opinion, it means that in some way the wishes of the islanders must be taken into account in order to find a solution for this dispute.
That's why i have always said that it's not imposibe to find a solution that respects the wishes of the islanders, and argentina's sovereign rights, like the secret proposal treated between arg. and the u. k. in 1974, read by c. f. k. at the u. n., which was based on a shared sovereignty. That proposal respected the wishes of the islanders of remaining under british gotv., and the sovereign rights of argentina.
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