Saturday, February 2nd 2013 - 20:07 UTC

Argentina lashes back at the IMF but announces new CPI for this year

Following Friday’s IMF ‘declaration of censure’ on Argentina because of the lack of reliability in its inflation and GDP stats, and the country’s first reaction virtually describing the Fund as mother of all financial evils, Minister of Economy Hernan Lorenzino announced a new ‘national’ Consumers Prices Index to be implemented in the course of this year and which will replace the current GBA-IPC.

Minister Lorenzino said “countries that don’t follow IMF prescriptions are sanctioned”

“The Fund knows perfectly well that we are involved since 2011/12 in the elaboration of a new CPI. Among other things all the data sources need to be modified and this takes time. And it’s not whether we like it or not, we want to be serious as we have always been” said Lorenzino who also strongly countered the IMF criticisms and questionings.

Lorenzino said that the new CPI, contrary to the current one, will provide price references not only of the Great Buenos Aires but of all the (24) provinces. “A country as vast as Argentina needs indexes which reflect all that is happening in the whole of the country”.

The minister, as with Argentina’s first reaction to IMF sanctions on Friday, said that is was no mere coincidence that the Fund’s sanctions were announced just a few days before the definitive court ruling on the hedge funds’ (‘vulture’ funds) claims and also criticized that the reference invoked by the IMF are the reports from Argentine private consultants and provincial governments, “which lack the technical tools to make the appropriate measurements”.

“We see no coincidence in Friday’s report just a few days away from the 27 February hearing which is going to end the with ‘vulture funds’ issue. The truth is we can’t believe that it is but a coincidence, after seeing in a brief statement with no technical foundation the word ‘corrective’ used 29 times”, underlined the Argentine official.

“The emphasis in these reports is underlining that a country that does not follow the Fund’s instructions is a country to be sanctioned, which must be branded. We are doing things that are not in their interest and must not be released”.

The official Ministry of Economy release on Friday said that IMF sanctions on Argentina had an “exemplary purpose” but also exposing “the unfair and double standard treatment of the organization towards certain members”.

Based on this Argentina formally requests “an extraordinary meeting of the IMF Board of Governors to examine the policy of that body towards Argentina and its role in the origins of the economic and financial world crisis”.

“Strangely enough Argentina is the same country that in the nineties, with the convertibility box, the IMF considered an example of economic model, a model which ended with the most serious institutional and economic crisis in the history of our country”.

The release recalls that the Argentine economy melted in 2001 and the country’s institutions collapsed, Argentina was abandoned by the IMF. “Since then Argentina climbed back without any aid from the IMF and cancelled all its debt with the Fund not to accept its ‘conditionality’”.

Likewise the release compares how Argentina has advanced by not following the IMF prescriptions particularly lowering debt levels and insisting with an industrialization policy, which is seen by the IMF as “a bad example” to be corrected.

“The policy of taking debt proposed by the IMF leads to a vicious circle of social exclusion, bankrupt corporations and disappearance of jobs as is currently happening in several European countries”.

Counter policies on the other hand have allowed Argentina to grow strongly with social inclusion, 6.9% unemployment, double the GDP in ten years, the highest industrial per capita growth in its history, trade surplus and a robust financial system with the most profitable banks in the region, alleges the release.

As to the brief IMF declaration of censure, Argentina asks if the Fund ignores that many countries for example have modified the jobless measurement system and that others have changed several times the composition of the CPI and measurement methodologies in such a way that if the originals were used those indexes would be three times higher?.

Nevertheless Argentina will continue to work as had been agreed with the IMF in the improvement of stats procedures in accordance with international practice.

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1 Think (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 08:13 pm Report abuse
Wake me up when September ends......................
2 yankeeboy (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 08:19 pm Report abuse
Whine whine whine..blame someone else...
Do these greasy mullet heads every grow up?
Fastest gdp growth, low unemployment etc etc...yeah but those number are fake. That is the whole problem right?
3 Ayayay (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 08:23 pm Report abuse
IMF offers loans as a last resort for countries that would have famines otherwise.
What would have happened if they HADN'T loaned Greece money with strict no-corruption conditions? Greece doesn't grow most.of it's own food, doesn't have power for heat or hospitals. The medicine supply was shut off before the cooperative credit union known as IMF steped in.
4 ElaineB (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 08:32 pm Report abuse
If they don't want to play by the rules they can leave. Except they don't want to because the consequences would be horrendous.
5 Shed-time (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 08:46 pm Report abuse
Do Argentinians get their cooking oil from a line of reclined chairs seating this gentleman and his friends, with their mullets placed over a bowl behind them? Surely the grease would be enough to keep them in candles for weeks.

On topic, INDEC is still running the stats for this new fangled CPI. So I'd expect them to be somewhere between 'completely disfactual' and 'utter lies'.

I'm sure the IMF would agree.
6 redpoll (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 08:59 pm Report abuse
@1 Delighted to do so Think. You going into hibernation till then? Hurra!
7 briton (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 09:02 pm Report abuse
They say
You should not bite the hand that feeds you,

But in the case of the IMF,
Perhaps they deserve to be , eaten alive]

8 Think (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 09:11 pm Report abuse

The IMF is right in its conclusion…..:
The Argentinean INDEC “miscalculates” the Argentinean inflation by ~150%
Slightly affecting ~40,000,000 Argentineans.

The IMF is also right in another of its conclusions…..:
The International Monetary Fund (IMF) “miscalculated” the multipliers in the Eurozone by ~250%
Severely affecting ~500,000,000 Europeans….:

”As if that wouldn't be bad enough, IMF also concluded that the multipliers in the Euro zone were actually higher that the above-mentioned estimates: A fiscal squeeze of one per cent of GDP operated in an economic downturn and based on expenditure cuts, leads in the Euro zone to a further economic shrinking of 2.5 per cent, thus strengthening a vicious circle of recession, austerity, and impoverishment.”

And some of you, Euro-Turnips, want us, Argentineans, to listen to those Economic Whichdoctors from the IMF?

Get a Life!
Sincerely yours….
El Think, Chubut, Argentina
9 Shed-time (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 09:14 pm Report abuse
@8 why are you so jealous of Europeans and stay awake all night thinking of new ways to change the topic onto some topic about Europe because you're sour and jealous?

What is life like being so jealous as you are?
10 screenname (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 09:30 pm Report abuse
@El Think, Chubbybutt, Argentina: Please go to sleep until the end of September, as you stated.

Chuckle Chuckle
11 Shed-time (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 09:40 pm Report abuse
So they demand a meeting from the Board of Govenors to grill them on whether they were responsible for the current world economic crisis?

What has that got to do with their sh!tty manipulated statistics?
12 yankeeboy (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 10:04 pm Report abuse
Think, Nobody is asking Argentina to “listen” to the IMF's advice...NOBODY.
Only to abide by the TERMS OF MEMBERSHIP

If you don't like the agreement YOU SIGNED..Leave

We will wave a fond farewell

Just stop whining for GD Sakes

have some dignity
13 Shed-time (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 10:16 pm Report abuse
@12 you seem to be under the misconception that a signature means something to an Argentine.

It doesn't.
14 yankeeboy (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 10:32 pm Report abuse
CFK is blasting the IMF on Twitter

Are there any grown-ups in Argentina?

They all seem like a 13 year old passive aggressive teen age girl.

Yes Think I am including you.
15 Think (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 10:35 pm Report abuse
Wake me up when September ends......................
16 Shed-time (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 10:50 pm Report abuse
@15 are you going into hibernation because you have no food, water or power there in Argentina?

Sounds pretty sh!t for you.
17 Joe Bloggs (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 10:53 pm Report abuse
Oh I'm sure you'll be awake over an upcoming weekend in March.

You deadbeat.

Chuckle chuckle.
18 Think (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 10:59 pm Report abuse
Apparently, British Turnips never heard about Post-Britpop........
Wake me up when September ends.....
19 Joe Bloggs (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 11:04 pm Report abuse
Oh I'm sure you'll be awake over an upcoming weekend in March.

You deadbeat.

Chuckle chuckle.
20 yankeeboy (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 11:11 pm Report abuse
Think is afraid of the final numbers of the Soy and Corn Crops by September it should all be behind him.

I can hear the crop withering from here
21 Think (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 11:21 pm Report abuse

One of the reasons I respect the Kirchner Administration…..

2003 – Argentina’s External Debt:
166% of its annual GDP; 90% in Dollars……

2013 – Argentina’s External Debt:
14% of its annual GDP; 10% in Dollars…….
22 Pirate Love (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 11:26 pm Report abuse
argentina is squeeling like a fat pig stuck in its own sh*t, no money, no investment, no future, no chance, it is all quite pleasing i have to confess,
just deserts what..what..

i can only imagine the panic stricken squeels from the nazi reich in march when they witness their expansionist aspirations totally crushed by the democratic steamroller that is SELF-DETERMINATION! :))

time is ticking little piggy!!!
23 yankeeboy (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 11:28 pm Report abuse
It is easy to get your debt down when you steal all the U$ reserves of ANSES, BCRA, RG Banks, RG Insurance companies, Various and sundry Nationalizations and give back 30% of what your owe to 1000 (10s of 10000?) Retirees from many countries including your own.

It is shameful.
You should be embarrassed not proud.
24 surfer (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 11:33 pm Report abuse
Hmm, easy if you default.

I wonder who respects 30% inflation, 8 peso dollar, for now, 10 soon son, INDEC blatently lying about ALL important economic statistics......RESPECT. or maybe as Ali G would say 'RESTEPCT'
25 Shed-time (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 11:40 pm Report abuse
@23 This is precisely what I was saying earlier. These Argentines, such as think, respect criminals and criminal activity. To them immorality and unethical behaviour are the norm, and as such these Argentines live within some kind of darwinian world without laws.

He respects paying debt through theft.
26 commonsparrow (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 11:48 pm Report abuse
So who wants to be a criminal. Woooo hooooo!
27 agent999 (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 11:49 pm Report abuse
@21 Think

Do you believe and trust all INDEC statistics ?
28 Think (#) Feb 02nd, 2013 - 11:53 pm Report abuse

A couple of other reasons I respect the Kirchner Administration…..

The Kirchner Administration didn't default...., they inherited a default by a previous Administration and renegotiated it in an intelligent manner.

Argentina’s Central Bank's reserves in 2003:
~4,500 Million Dollars……
Argentina’s Central Bank's reserves in 2013:
~45,000,000 Million Dollars……

Argentina’s unemployment in 2003:
Argentina’s unemployment in 2013:
29 agent999 (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 12:12 am Report abuse
@21 Think

Do you believe and trust all INDEC statistics ?
30 Think (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 12:16 am Report abuse

Paragraph 2) in post (28) should read….:
Argentina’s Central Bank's reserves in 2003:
~4,500 Million Dollars……
Argentina’s Central Bank's reserves in 2013:
~45,000 Million Dollars……
My bad
(29) agent999
Your question is CLEARLY answered in my post (8)...:
“The IMF is right in its conclusion…..:
The Argentinean INDEC “miscalculates” the Argentinean inflation by ~150%”
Can't you read?
31 surfer (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 12:26 am Report abuse
arf, just cherry picking a couple of very dubious (read INDEC) stats, does not an argument make.

Even with more credible stats such as those from Cuba, you can conceal much of reality about economic failure and poverty dictatorship by referencing literacy rates, ratios of doctors to population etc...

btw Cuba is a beautiful country with smart resourceful people, but run by donkeys, ring any bells.
32 Think (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 12:27 am Report abuse

Yet another reason I respect the Kirchner Administration……:

Argentinean workers covered by a Pension System in 2003:
~ 55 - 60%
Argentinean workers covered by a Pension System in 2013:
33 agent999 (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 12:32 am Report abuse
@30 Think

So are to take at face value the rest information/statistics released by the economic Whichdoctors (witch doctors) from INDEC. ?
34 Tobers (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 12:35 am Report abuse
So 'Think' admits his government lies massively about the inflation and growth statistics and yet still -respects the Kirchner administration-

Surely he needs higher standards than that.
35 Think (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 12:42 am Report abuse
(34) Tobers

Doesn't your government lies massively about inflation and unemployment?

“Think” before answering.....
36 Anbar (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 12:45 am Report abuse
why is Think just quoting CFKs twitter feed?

omg... you dont think.....

37 surfer (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 12:50 am Report abuse
One day the 'Thiink' character will wake up and find out their peso bank account is completely worthless, water/electricity cutoff, general strike on, CFK on a British jet on the way to the Cayman isles.

Wonder what this character will have to say (no leccy, no blogging). 'you lied to us...sob'
38 Tobers (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 01:06 am Report abuse
The UK government manipulates the figures but nowhere near to the extent of the Argie government. It would never get away with what your government is doing. Id say most people in the UK trust the figures to within a couple of % of what the government says. How many Argentines would say the same about the INDECS figures

Anyway Im not praising and defending my government as such. Just pointing out your exaggeration.
39 Think (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 01:30 am Report abuse
(38) Tobers

You say....:
Id say most people in the UK trust the figures to within a couple of % of what the government says.“

I say....:
”A couple of %“..... Nice brainwash......

I am not an expert in UK statistic trickery......, but I'm quite versed in Scandinavian and German statistic trickery.

In the above mentioned Countries, the unemployed figure is kept artificially low through different ” forced activation“, ”forced education“ and ”government subsidized employment“ schemes.....

Inflation is kept at an ”acceptable“ European level of 2-3% by taking key ”unstable“ elements like gasoline, heating oil, transport etc. out of the calculations.

Without those ”cunning tricks” inflation and unemployment statistics in Northern Europe would be between 50-75% higher.

I have no reason to believe that the UK is any different.......
40 Tobers (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 01:58 am Report abuse
--I am not an expert in UK statistic trickery.....

Thats all I need to know on that front.

If you can say --I have no reason to believe that the UK is any different-
Can I say --I have no reason to believe CFK isnt a sociopath and thief who is stealing from her own people and sending resource and land rich Argentina down the shitter --?
41 Ayayay (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 06:23 am Report abuse
Think, are you srs? Nope.

You can look at the price of bread/electricity & watch them rise or fall you know. No Germans I know are having any challenges.

I think some Argentines would like to be acquainted with the 'falling' half of that concept.
42 Redrow (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 08:41 am Report abuse

The UK now has the ONS - office for national statistics that is independent of government. Earlier this week it had Cameron in to smack his wrist over his confusing “deficit” for “debt” in a speech. They have done this before, that's because it is recognised that outside agencies must have confidence about your statistics. Obviously with unemployment statistics politicians like to move people from one column to another to make the headline rate appear smaller, and the UK are as guilty of this as anyone else (though less so now than in the 1980s) but at least the data on the spreadsheet are accurate so it is easy enough to add the various columns together to know what the overall picture. In contrast, are you confident that INDEC releases honest data?

Potential investors (in a company or country) have both the legal and moral right to know the true financial position of the entity they are considering investing in. You have quoted some very positive RG statistics above and yet every other externally provable fact suggests that BA is picking up circular speed on its way down the plug hole. Who should be believed?
43 Think (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 09:08 am Report abuse
(40) Tobers

You can say whatever you wish to say…….
But sometimes is useful to think before speaking…..
One of the endemic problems of Argentina is corruption, no question about that!
But, in contraposition of some European Political Leaders, Argentinean President Cristina Kirchner personal fortune of ~10 million £ , as “inopportune” as it is, is thoughtfully explained in her tax return……….

“Shining European Political Stars” are paid for in different ways though…..
Some are paid for before and/or during their term in office (Type A)
Some are paid for after their term in office (Type B)
Some others are paid for through their family members (Type C)
Some few examples of the above…..:

(Type A) Silvio Berlusconi, Italian Prime Minister during 9 years, a personal fortune of ~3 billion £, financed since the sixties by an Italian Company called “The Mafia”….

(Type A) Mariano Rajoy, current Prime Minister of Spain…….. Just follow the News.

(Type B) Gerhard Schröder, Germany’s Chancellor during 7 years, strong promoter of the Russian Gazprom gas-duct to Germanywhile in office…… Currently, millionaire Director of Russian Gazprom Gas Company…..

Now, to your beloved and “squeaky clean” UK……:

(Type B) Mr. Tony Blair, UK Prime Minister for 10 years which personal fortune has recently surpassed the 60 million £ mark….

(Type C) Baroness Thatcher, UK Prime Minister for 11 years who’s favourite son, Mark Thatcher, has “somehow” amassed a personal fortune of about 80 million £ ….

…………Not to mention the ongoing London Interbank Offered Rate (LIBOR) finance corruption scandal that has cost ALL OF US billions if not trillions of £££………..
44 Shed-time (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 09:20 am Report abuse
Why do I get the impression that Think is some kind of Argentine expat living in some cultural ghetto in scandinavia, claiming that his country is better than it is, without actually understanding how truly in-the-sh!te the beloved nation that he abandoned is.

He's simply just an 'abandoner', someone who secretly dislikes his nation and leaves it because it's sh!t, but refuses to admit its faults. These folk then try to recreate the sh!t country they abandoned through their children, who ultimately fail because of the resulting cultural embattlement.

As a side note, Think and KFC say their foreign reserves are now $45bil (gained through theft), so if you include the amount of money they stole (claiming it was an agreement to borrow) then that means they're currently nearly $100bil overdrawn.

Sadly the will never return the money they stole, they'll just keep believing that KFC magically made it, like she made the $520mil from the original sale of YPF.

Think, and the other La Campora rejects are just predictable and don't even have the balls to live in the country they claim to. They're cowards.
45 Think (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 09:36 am Report abuse
(42) Redrow

You say…:
”You (Think) have quoted some very positive RG statistics above and yet every other externally provable fact suggests that BA is picking up circular speed on its way down the plug hole. Who should be believed?”

I say…:
Would you please quote ANY statistics or, as you so nicely put it ANY ”Externally Provable Facts” from ANY serious source that contradict the statistics I provided.

I’ll repeat them, just to be clear about what we are talking about…:

2003 - Argentina’s External Debt: 166% of its annual GDP; 90% in U$S
2013 - Argentina’s External Debt: 14% of its annual GDP; 10% in U$S

2003 - Argentina’s Central Bank's reserves: ~4,500 Million U$S.
2013 - Argentina’s Central Bank's reserves: ~45,000 Million U$S.

2003 - Argentina’s unemployment: ~40 - 50%
2013 - Argentina’s unemployment: ~7 - 9%

2003 - Argentinean workers with pension coverage: ~55 - 60%
2013 - Argentinean workers with pension coverage: ~100%

Thanks in advance for your response
El Think,m Chubut, Argentina.
46 Redrow (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 10:10 am Report abuse

I merely asked a question - who should be believed? Madame Lagarde has certainly taken a view. Is she wrong? What about the hedge funds. No-one likes them but they are frequently right aren't they, otherwise they would go quickly bust?

As for Type A-C European leaders, I'm glad that you are willing to concede that unlike Spanish, Italian & Argentinian leaders, UK PMs are not corrupt IN office.
No country is perfect, what matters are the checks and balances that prevent the corrupt reaching or staying long in public office.

If CDK or Mr Timerunningout were British, what is the highest level of public office do you think they would reach?
47 Think (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 10:39 am Report abuse
(46) Redrow

Well, I can see that you don’t want to spend your Sunday ”Thinking”…
Fair enough…..
But let me answer a couple of your points….:

1) Your question about Madame Lagarde’s (and the IMF’s) view has been amply answered by me at post (8), where I write …:
”The IMF is right in its conclusion…..: The Argentinean INDEC “miscalculates” the Argentinean inflation by ~150%”………
Is that clear enough for you?

2) You are obviously misreading what I wrote about Baroness Thatcher……
Sir Mark Thatcher, Mumsy’s favourite child, was amassing his fortune in Africa WHILST “Mommy” was in office….
(+, at the same time, actively leading some bloody coup attempts in that continent)
He constantly “Dropped her Name” at any occasion, anywhere, to anybody who wanted to hear how “The Boss” aka “Mom” was fully behind him…..
Nor PM Mama nor the British FCO, nor any British authority did anything, ever to stop the bastard's activities….
48 ChrisR (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 10:42 am Report abuse
@ I don't Think aka The Turnip In Chief

Wake me up when September ends!

As usual you were lying: you just can't help it can you?

I don't 'think' that Turnip In Chief is still applicable to you, I 'think' Think, that Tosser In Chief is far closer to the mark and will be using it whenever I respond to more of your lies.
49 willi1 (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 10:48 am Report abuse
word by word the same bullshit as it would have come from the housewife. lorenzino - how much will he have stolen in the meantime?
50 Redrow (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 11:02 am Report abuse
Not sure you'd find too many Mark Thatcher supporters in the UK either. But he did not hold any executive office here (that i am aware of) so unless you are suggesting that his mother personally gained from his activities or used him as a proxy for her own personal enrichment then I'm not sure what your point is. I'm unaware that any such allegations have ever been made against Mrs Thatcher.

It's the near certainty of being found out that makes corruption in the UK so futile and its occasional perpetrators so stupid. So as for my question about (a British) CDK, what public office in the UK do you think she would be able to reach and hold given her record and behaviour?
51 Room101 (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 11:09 am Report abuse
Argentina has nothing substantive to say: best to procrastinate with legal goobledegook. Still, it's Argentina's business. Also there is that point made by Redrow about the UK. Sorry to say that we're not without some “incorruptibles” ourselves...
52 ElaineB (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 11:14 am Report abuse
CFKC has been banging on about the IMF on Twitter, suggesting that they followed the IMF model until 2001 (they didn't) and when the economy crash the IMF let go of their hand. What a blatant rewrite of history. Yes, the IMF and US investment firms were promoting Argentina as a country with a future (it still is with a decent government) but the problem was that Argentina did NOT adhere to the terms of the IMF loans. They were repeatedly warned and numerous attempts were made to get them to comply. The Argentina government squandered the IMF money and refused to collect taxes, control spending and curb corruption.

Who was responsible for the demise of Argentina? I would argue there was blame on both sides. IMF played the over-indulgent parent with an unruly child and should have been much firmer from a very early stage. But the Argentine government was reckless and infantile about how they wasted the money and, like a spoilt brat, thought there would be no consequences. There is plenty of evidence to support this.

Until they start to take some responsibility for their actions, no one is going to take them seriously.
53 Think (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 11:59 am Report abuse
(50) Redrow

You say…:
”Unless you are suggesting that his mother (Baroness Thatcher) personally gained from his activities or…..”

I say….:
I’m not “suggesting” anything…. I’m telling you directly in your face.
SHE is his mother, SHE was the PM, SHE knew everything, SHE could have stopped him, SHE should have stopped him, SHE didn’t stop him, SHE is fully responsible.

You say further...:
“It's the near certainty of being found out that makes corruption in the UK so futile and its occasional perpetrators so stupid.”

I say…:
Ohhh yeahhhh???
Tell us about the LIBOR Financial Corruption Scandal then ……
The one that, according to MIT’s Professor of Finance, Dr. Andrew Lo…: “dwarfs by orders of magnitude any financial scam in the history of markets.”

How many London bankers are going to jail? .......... (Naught)
How many bankers have been fired? …………............ (Naught)
How many have been fined? …………………................. (Naught)
How many are getting their full bonus? ……............. (All of them)

Who are the “stupid ones” in this “biggest financial scam in the history of markets”?
The ”Occasional Perpetrators” as you so nicely put it?
Or the whole rest of us?
Brainwash anybody?
54 ElaineB (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 12:10 pm Report abuse
@53 Did your mother control you that much? That explains a lot.
55 Shed-time (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 12:13 pm Report abuse
@53 Tobias, have you ever actually been to Argentina? I think not.

@52 You speak the truth, of course. But when have the Argentines not rewritten history to suit their purposes?
56 mastershakejb (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 12:19 pm Report abuse
lol, these Argretards like think love to screenstare all day long and post ridiculous attempt after ridiculous attempt at defending the disaster that is Argentina......but not for long. Probly within the year their internet will be cut off, their food hand outs cut off, Cristina looking to escape the country, general strikes, 100 pesos to the dollar, etc
57 surfer (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 01:04 pm Report abuse
#45 Notice how the character calling themselves a 'Thiink' has carefully avoided the two key statistics referred to by the IMF.
These also happen to be the most important statistics.
What say you about the accuracy of these two key stats?

When the argument is lost suddenly the topic will move to UK, Spain, Luxembourg, wave the white flag when you feel the need. Impossible to defend the indefensible. even the Arg govt has admitted the stats are wrong.
58 Think (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 01:25 pm Report abuse
(57) Surfer
You say...:
“Notice how the character calling himself 'Think' has carefully avoided the two key statistics referred to by the IMF.....GDP and INFLATION”
I say....:
I refer to my comments (8), (30) and (47) where I write trice:
”The IMF is right in its conclusion…..: The Argentinean INDEC “miscalculates” the Argentinean inflation by ~150%”.
Maybe, this fourth time, Mr. Surfer will be able to understand English.


Meanwhile an ex-minister of the Kirchner administration (Felisa Miceli) has been sentenced last month to four years of jail for economical corruption involving some hundred thousand dollars found in her office….…

Two more high-ranking ex-functionaries from the Kirchner administration (Ricardo Jaime and Juan Pablo Schiavi) are soon following her behind bars for economical corruption involving a couple of million U$S…

Could any Brit kindly refresh my memory about how many London Bankers are being punished (in any way) for the LIBOR Financial Corruption Scandal, characterized as the “biggest financial scam in the history of markets” involving trillions of £ of fraudulent transactions.
59 surfer (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 01:46 pm Report abuse
White flag duly noted.

Now you've admitted that INDEC “miscalculates” inflation (sounds better than lying or manipulating doesn't it, almost like someone made an innocent mistake).

Let's be clear about this and call it lying, do you not believe that INDEC can lie about other statistics?

What about GDP for example?

What about the exchange rate?

How much does your govt, I mean Argentina, need to lie to you before you realise NONE of their numbers are reliable. I turn around your very selective post at 45 and say, prove those numbers from a reliable source.
60 agent999 (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 02:01 pm Report abuse
More misdirection by Think.

The topic is the IMF censoring Argentina of the false figures being released by the Argentinian sponsored and controlled INDEC.

Think has admitted that he believes INDEC has under estimated Argentinian inflation by 150%.

Think then posts two sets of figures

“2003 – Argentina’s External Debt:
166% of its annual GDP; 90% in Dollars……
2013 – Argentina’s External Debt:
14% of its annual GDP; 10% in Dollars…….”

The 2013 figures again being produced by the discredited government controlled INDEC.

“Since 2007, when Guillermo Moreno, the secretary of internal trade, was sent into the statistics institute, INDEC, to tell its staff that their figures had better not show inflation shooting up, prices and the official record have parted ways”
61 yankeeboy (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 02:02 pm Report abuse
One would THINK someone who posts all through the night in Argentina probably doesn't live in that time zone.
I doubt he has been to Argentina since his family was kicked out in the 70s
It is too bad the the Condors missed them

What the Ks have done doesn't take a genius, they have reneged on debts, nationalized an stolen to pay down the U$ debt, converted that debt to Pesos and there it sits at every RG bank, insurance company, Anses and Bcra getting less valuable every day with the depreciation of the peso and inflation. Grossly and Negligently pumped up the monetary base to temporarily create consumer demand.
And now the juice is gone
Now what can they expect:
Massive Devaluation, Hyperinflation, Generational Depression
The avg Rg will be poorer next year than they were last year
Only the Pols and their cronies will be richer
The story has repeated itself every decade since Peron
When will these simpletons wake up?
62 Conqueror (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 02:07 pm Report abuse
@43 Oh Twinky, you're awake! Love your examples. An Italian. Didn't a lot of argies originate in Italy? A Spaniard. Lots of argies originated in Spain. A German. Lots of argies originated in Germany? And even more with the nazi war criminals. A Scot. Well, a lot of Celts are a bit suspect. And Mark Thatcher? Pales into insignificance compared to how much CFK has stolen and salted away.
@45 DYOR. Lazy git.
@53 Zzzzzzzzz!
@58 IS THIS A DREAM? THOUGHT TRANSFERENCE? Nah, can't dream like that. I dream about women. Thought transference? Nah, there has to be “THINKING” before telepathy. Bitchy Girlie Twinky couldn't do that!
63 Think (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 02:22 pm Report abuse
(59) Surfer

I normally avoid any interaction with Turnips and you are, definitively, one.......
Anyhow, in the total absence of any intelligent interlocutors at the moment, I will use you as a kind of Tennis backboard......

1) The word “Miscalculate” was chosen, not by me but by the IMF, as you so cunningly noticed, to try to indicate they made an innocent mistake when ruining Europe with their ”Miscalculations.
I refer you to my comment and link at…:

2) I know that I’m stretching your mental capacity to the limit now but.....
Could you please tell me why in earth would Argentina exxagerate (lie) about the size of its GDP when 2/3 of its debt bonds are indexed to the GDP value?
To pay more money to its creditors?

3) What on earth has the exchange rate has to do with the INDEC?
64 Redrow (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 02:30 pm Report abuse
@ Think

That the Libor scandal has its own Wikipedia page suggests that they didn't get exactly get away with it which was my point. No-one is in denial it happened, the boss of Barclays is losing his bonus for the second year running. It happened because banking deregulation went far too far and this is being corrected. What has this got to do with the current position of INDEC and the CDK administration?

As for Thatcher, she left office 21 years ago but if memory serves no-one has ever seriously accused her of corruption. Her son may well have traded on his mother's name and caused her significant political embarrassment. But he was a problem to fix and not a key part of an attempt by Mrs Thatcher to enrich herself corruptly. And that's me done for sticking up for Mrs T for another decade.
65 yankeeboy (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 02:47 pm Report abuse
Hmm, Why would Argentina lie about GDP, let me think, maybe it is to:

1. Build the K myth of CHINA growth rates
2. You can't have high inflation and low gdp now can you?
3. % debt to GDP looks low when GDP is high

What about the inflation linked bonds? Estimated $20BILLION underpayment. That's going to have to be paid at some point.

All the numbers are fake and have been since Nestor made Indec into a fantasy to boost his image. Crissy will never let Nestor's legacy be tarnished. Never.

BTW IMF is going to insist ALL Stats are recalculated back to 2007 with an audit. So just coming out with a new CPI isn't going to cut it.

Estimated Jan inflation 2.9%

Looks like inflation is heating up...maybe 40% or 50% this year?

Buy Sugar, laundry detergent and toilet paper now so you will have something to trade later.
66 golfcronie (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 02:47 pm Report abuse
A new CPI in 2011/2012, probably a new CPI in 2012/2013 and again in 2013/2014
When will they give the results to the IMF?, perhaps by changing the goalposts every year they think they will get away with it.
67 mastershakejb (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 02:49 pm Report abuse
Think, you clearly haven't thought in years. And you'll be without internet, electricty, food, etc soon while Cristina flees. And then you'll accuse Britain and USA of installing Cristina as a puppet to destroy Argentina, lol.
68 Think (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 02:58 pm Report abuse
(64) Redrow

Did you read the Wiki article……………?

Did you grasp the enormity of that London fraud……………?

Didn't they get away with cheating billions and billions of £ from investors worldwide for the last twenty years, you say…………….?

And, as the only consequence, 1 (one) London Director from 1(one) British Bank has lost his bonus for two years in a row, you say……………?

And you Brits have the Chutzpah of telling me that corruption is nearly inexistent in Europe?

Get a Life
El Think, Chubut, Argentina.
69 surfer (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 03:09 pm Report abuse
# 68

I don't particularly care why INDEC chooses to lie about GDP but the IMF certainly believes they are;

Do you think the official, unobtainable, dolar peso rate is another “miscalculation”?

Are you beginning to see a trend here with Argentinian financial stats, I understand you can't backup your stats in #45

OK, I get it, let's talk about Luxembourg ;-)
70 yankeeboy (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 03:23 pm Report abuse
Think, who is funding La Campora?
Where did the U$2MM come for Maxi's palace? I thought he was an unemployed uneducated drug addict. Hmm odd.
How is La Campora able to get convicted criminals out of jail early?
How does La Campora supporters get plumb, extremely high paying jobs without any experience or education?
How does a Political family buy something from the Province they run for U$1/hectare then immediately turn around and sell it for U$750/hectare without an investigation happening?
How does U$350MM go missing from Provincial coffers and the case gets shelved?
On and on we go where it will stop nobody knows
71 Think (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 03:42 pm Report abuse
(70) Fred Bates

You say....:
“On and on we go where it will stop nobody knows”

I say...:
Right, in your “Doomsday Preppers” fantasy world, the sky is the limit....
By the way....... I can warmly recoment this product for your Alabama Bunker.....:
72 yankeeboy (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 03:58 pm Report abuse
Ahh deflection, we are not all as dumb as you Think.
Can't answer any of my questions huh?
Too embarrassing?
Brown shirts running roughshod over THE PEOPLE doesn't fit with the K mystique?
Think we will see 10/1 this month? Is having more peso making everyone richer? Doesn't seem that way to me.
BTW how did your family escape the Condors? Have you been back since the 70s?
73 surfer (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 04:00 pm Report abuse
OK, I just see another white flag from #71, very dissappointing.

This character 'Thiink' relies far too much on their REPTILIAN brain.
74 Agent999999999999999999 (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 04:02 pm Report abuse
@60 Isolde 72 yankee-slum-baby boy
Shut up!
75 Think (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 04:12 pm Report abuse
(72) Fred Bates

A lot of wrong guesses.
What about your life, Freddyboy?

Still in Watchington together with that infrahuman Argentinean bleached female?

Any half-blod litter of Freddyboys and gals on their way soon?

Ever got your golden Rolex back from those bandits that abused you so terribly in Buenos Aires some years ago?
76 surfer (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 04:15 pm Report abuse
#75 Arf, what a big chunk of REPTILIAN fail, more of the same please!
77 yankeeboy (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 04:19 pm Report abuse
Hmm still can't answer any questions
let's try again:
Ahh deflection, we are not all as dumb as you Think.
Can't answer any of my questions huh?
Too embarrassing?
Brown shirts running roughshod over THE PEOPLE doesn't fit with the K mystique?
Think we will see 10/1 this month? Is having more peso making everyone richer? Doesn't seem that way to me.
BTW how did your family escape the Condors? Have you been back since the 70s?
78 Redrow (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 04:24 pm Report abuse
@68 Think

I do have a life, thank-you - a very comfortable one. And while our inflation rates remain in single figures I will continue to do so.

I'm still not clear what Libor has to do with Administration statistics I.e. what this story/thread is about. The banks lying and the government lying are two different things. I was talking about government corruption, as were you originally. What does sometimes happen are “revolving door” appointments where a junior minister gives a government contract to a company and then leaves government and joins the company. But even in these cases the company may have still been the optimal bidder so even this isn't automatically corruption even though it always looks bad. So where do UK PMs earn their pensions? Invariably these are Directorships (that are published) & appointments and speeches occurring after their resignations. They don't even have access to their share portfolio while in office. In contrast, where has CDK earned her wealth?
79 yankeeboy (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 05:09 pm Report abuse
#102 and on the bottom of the list....again...always..and forever

Public sector
The country has adequate legislation that aims to prevent public sector corruption and there are even a number of institutions tasked with fighting corruption. However, gaps between these anti-corruption laws and their actual enforcement remain one of Argentina’s greatest corruption risks. With weak accountability mechanisms in place, impunity continues to trump integrity.
80 josefa malvinera (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 05:54 pm Report abuse
@79 Yankee-Slum-Baby Boy aka Conor Louden-Brown
Why are you concern about Argentina?
Pay Captain Poor Poppy
restaurant expenses and shut up!
81 mastershakejb (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 06:09 pm Report abuse
anyone up for a good laugh? google “argentina economy”
82 redpoll (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 06:10 pm Report abuse
@80 How many aliases has our Sussie got? Anybody counted?
83 Marcos Alejandro (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 06:28 pm Report abuse
81 anyone up for a good laugh?

Today's newspaper

“We'd rather go to Germany or Spain than Britain, says Bulgarian minister”

”Sterling caught in a 'quiet crisis’
84 surfer (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 06:31 pm Report abuse
#82 Prob as many as she's got kids, however they've all got the same first name, uses their dad's surnames to tell them apart.
85 mastershakejb (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 07:06 pm Report abuse
These same Argies on here who claim to be anti-USA/UK, if offered a green card/UK residency, would leave Argentina the SAME day they received the offer, wouldn't even stop to tell their families. Would call their families from USA/UK to tell them they've arrived in the greatest country in the world. They would sell their own internal organs or chop off one of their hands or feet if they thought it'd get them permant residency in USA or UK

I've traveled their country, in its entirety, recently, but they haven't traveled much or any of mine (USA). 99 percent of Argies haven't even traveled their own nation as much as I have traveled theirs, and I'm not even from theirs, lol. POVERTY AND IGNORANCE: the mouth from which these Argretards speak.
86 agent999 (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 07:08 pm Report abuse
@83 Marcos,

you post all these links, but never bother to read them, if you did and actually understood what was written you would realise how pathetic you really are
87 Shed-time (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 07:22 pm Report abuse
@85 most of the Argentines on here don't live in Argentina, you can tell because their comments rarely coincide with the times of widespread power cuts.

None of them know anything about life in Argentina.
88 briton (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 07:30 pm Report abuse
If you listen very quietly,
You will hear something interesting,
If you believe what you are hearing today,
Then believe this “

Argentina will soon be out of debt,
Argentina will soon be the worlds 4th riches country
Argentina will soon be all powerful
Argentina will soon have a powerful navy
Argentina will soon have a powerful air force
Argentina will soon have a powerful army
Argentina will soon be a nuclear power
Argentina will soon be the worlds next biggest Empire
Argentina Argentina Argentina,
Or This,
Argentina will soon be broke [Again]
Argentina, will never be a power of interest
Argentina will never get an Empire
Argentina will never be as great or admired like the British
Argentina will never be a unclear power
Argentina will never get the British Falklands,
Argentina is the worlds laughing stock,
And CFK has done all this, in the your name,
Aint you proud of that.

Listen, what do you hear,?????????

89 Shed-time (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 07:36 pm Report abuse
@88 I hear the sound of Maximo taking another rock of crack.
90 briton (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 07:53 pm Report abuse
ha ha,

they not hear so
91 yankeeboy (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 08:13 pm Report abuse
Our favorite poster “Think” seems to be up all night on this site.
One would think he lives on the other side of the Atlantic.
He would never lie tho
would he?

some neighborhoods are still without power
protesting in the streets
gosh so many protests for a country doing so well
it is odd
92 stick up your junta (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 09:04 pm Report abuse
An Argentine fable: Cristina Kirchner's tall stories
93 Ayayay (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 09:31 pm Report abuse
Lol @76
94 toooldtodieyoung (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 09:41 pm Report abuse
91 yankeeboy

“Our favorite poster “Think” seems to be up all night on this site.”

But still, he hasn't answered your questions yet...........Curious.

You don't THINK, you don't THINK, that he can't answer a straight question with a straight answer do you????

mmmmmm....... some might start to draw conclusions from that.....
95 josefa malvinera (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 09:56 pm
Comment removed by the editor.
96 Shed-time (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 09:59 pm Report abuse
@95 it's sad that Argentinians cannot seem to realize they lost a war in 1982.
97 stick up your junta (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 10:04 pm Report abuse
@95 aint you worried about your prisoners's

Argentine officers held over 'torture video'
98 reality check (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 10:11 pm Report abuse
Wow, scraping the bottom of the barrel or what? Wtf does this woman have to do with Los Falklands.
99 St.John (#) Feb 03rd, 2013 - 11:37 pm Report abuse
What a shocking load of crap from Lorenzino, Minister of Economy, assumed to have at least a minimal understanding of economy.
100 Shed-time (#) Feb 04th, 2013 - 12:43 am Report abuse
@99 the only thing this chap knows is how to put too much brylcreem on his mullet. This is apparently very attractive to Latin American women.
101 Claudina (#) Feb 04th, 2013 - 01:48 am
Comment removed by the editor.
102 Shed-time (#) Feb 04th, 2013 - 02:00 am Report abuse
@101 better no hair than sh!t looking mullet.
103 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Feb 04th, 2013 - 02:06 am
Comment removed by the editor.
104 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 04th, 2013 - 02:29 am Report abuse

Claudina = Sussie

just ignore
105 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Feb 04th, 2013 - 02:36 am
Comment removed by the editor.
106 redpoll (#) Feb 04th, 2013 - 03:09 am Report abuse
Snotty If you cant take it best get together with our Sussie. Quick flight to Tampa recommended. Problem: If you go will they let you back into Canada Alex?
107 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Feb 04th, 2013 - 03:13 am
Comment removed by the editor.
108 yankeeboy (#) Feb 04th, 2013 - 04:06 am Report abuse
Toby, Why are you laughing at the misery in your country?
Google translate:
... take charge of food and appliances affected by the power failure. There are still areas where the light did not return.
109 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Feb 04th, 2013 - 04:25 am
Comment removed by the editor.
110 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 04th, 2013 - 06:54 am Report abuse
Some of TTT's circuits are dead, it seems.
111 Brit Bob (#) Feb 04th, 2013 - 10:16 am Report abuse
The new method of calculating Argie inflation is to be known as the 'Cristina's Crystal Ball method.'
112 briton (#) Feb 04th, 2013 - 06:37 pm Report abuse

Claudina = Sussie

just ignore

agree agree .
113 Ayayay (#) Feb 04th, 2013 - 06:46 pm Report abuse
Lol @110
114 Gordo1 (#) Feb 04th, 2013 - 09:01 pm Report abuse

Very interesting!
115 c.carlos (#) Feb 04th, 2013 - 10:06 pm Report abuse
Hey, briton...forget it about SussieUS!
Don't you have nothing else to do than making comments about her?
116 briton (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 07:35 pm Report abuse
115 c.carlos
no , none ,
117 Perseus (#) Feb 09th, 2013 - 07:01 pm Report abuse
Greece has 0.8 inflation and the price of oil and gas rise 40 % ,bread 1 euro from 0.80 ,potatos 1 euro to 1.30 from 0.40 ,but no inflation ,nice
official unemployment 27% ,unofficial more than 38%.
T he International Monetary Fund’s top economist [Olivier Blanchard] today acknowledged that the fund blew its forecasts for Greece and other European economies because it did not fully understand how government austerity efforts would undermine economic growth.

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