Timerman begins ‘Malvinas week’ in London but no meeting with Hague included
Argentine Foreign minister Hector Timerman begins Monday a busy ‘Malvinas’ week in London with meetings scheduled in Parliament and later at the embassy with representatives from 18 different European groups that support UK/Argentina dialogue on the Falklands’ sovereignty
The official agenda announced Sunday in Buenos Aires however does not mention any meeting of Timerman with Foreign Secretary William Hague following last week’ ongoing controversy over Argentina’s rejection to any participation of the Falklands elected representatives in any talks between the two ministers in which the issue was raised.
The official agenda thus denied Timerman’s statements in an interview published on Sunday in the government funded newspaper Pagina 12 in which he does ‘not discard the possibility’ of a meeting with Hague as long as “no conditions or ultimatums” are involved regarding the ‘bilateral dialogue’ on the Malvinas question.
Last Friday and Saturday the Foreign Office insisted Argentina was informed well in advance of the invitation to the Falklands’ representatives but Timerman denies any such anticipation and thus his last minute desistance from holding a meeting with Hague if it was not ‘bilateral’.
Timerman busy round begins Tuesday Feb 5 at Parliament building with a meeting of the UK/Argentine parliamentarian multiparty group, which includes among other issues a conference on the Malvinas history, Argentina’s longstanding rights to the Islands and the non-applicability of the right to self determination for the people of the Falklands, points out the official agenda.
According to Malvinas’ history calendar, Argentina this year remembers the 180th. Anniversary of the ‘British usurpation’ of the Islands, when allegedly Argentine settlers were forcibly removed marking the beginning of UK occupation that lasts until now with the sole exception of the 74 days in 1982 when Argentine forces invaded the Falklands.
The delegation of Timerman includes the presidents of the Senate and Lower House Foreign affairs committees, Senator Daniel Filmus plus Deputy Guillermo Carmona and Argentine petitioners before the UN C24 Decolonization committee, Alejandro Betts and Marcelo Vernet.
The following day, Wednesday at the official residence of the Argentine embassy, Ambassador Alicia Castro will host the 18 European groups which support dialogue on the Falklands’ sovereignty and is made up of “politicians, academics, writers and journalists from “Germany, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Denmark, Spain, France, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Holland, Poland, Portugal, Czech Republic, UK, Romania and Sweden”.
These personalities support and promote dialogue between Argentina and the UK “to resolve in a peaceful and definitive way the Falklands/Malvinas sovereignty dispute, following on UN resolutions and reiterated calls from the international community”.
Timerman is also scheduled to visit in London the seat of the International Maritime Organization where he is scheduled to hold a meeting with Koji Sekimizu, the head of IMO.
Last week in a strong letter addressed to Foreign Secretary Hague, Timerman regretted he was denied a bilateral meeting unless it was “supervised by the Malvinas settlers” and underlined that while Argentina keeps to international law the UK insists with ‘colonial rule’.
In later statements Timerman added that “this was the first time” the Foreign Office “has changed its position” regarding the Malvinas question and insists that the UK ‘condition’ surfaced in a letter that took 35 days to reply an original request for a bilateral meeting, dispatched by the Argentine embassy.
According to Timerman the ‘bilateral meeting to talk about bilateral issues” taking advantage of his trip to London in February, was requested on 5 December but “they replied on 10 January, 35 days later”.
The Argentine minister recalled that the UN in 1975 said the Malvinas question “is a bilateral issue that must be resolved by the sovereign governments of Argentina and the UK”.
Finally ‘it is quite strange that the UK should impose conditions on dialogue: who should sit at the table, who has to talk, who doesn’t have to talk. I never came across something like this. I have invited Hague to visit Argentina, where he can see with his own eyes he can meet with me, with whom ever he wishes, that we are a true democracy and I don’t need to be supervised”.
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Hague answered early today!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmevJzXALpk
Overseas this is the only sort of RG news that makes the papers..... www.watoday.com.au/business/world-business/argentina-censure-cements-outcast-status-20130204-2dtwv.html?
The man is a twat
www.buenosairesherald.com/article/123303/wrong-side-of-history
So... Timerman refuses to sit down with Hague and representatives of the Falkland Islands in Britain, but is perfectly happy to meet Hague and FI representatives in Argentina for the exact same talks?!?!
Yeah, that's the sort of logic I've come to expect from you Argentinians.
On another note, these 18 Europeans who support a peaceful solution to the Falklands issue, does that mean they will be equally critical of Argentina's recent actions against the Islanders, or are they specially handpicked by Argentina to help chant 'Las Falklands son Argentinas' while Timerman is in Britain?
I'm still trying to work out what the diplomatic objective of this visit is. Trying to irritate your hosts is an unusual and some might say risky strategy. I can understand that trying to wind your hosts up in the hope of eliciting an overreaction might play well at home but how does that help anywhere else? And what if your hosts stay calm and polite, then you just look a tool.
I don't know what his agenda is in London, but the others involved will take notice that what Mr Timerman has to say/negotiate should be taken with caution: no one who refuses to talk with all the parties involved in serious matters of international importance has any credibility in any governmental areas.
Well, it was resolved in 1982 when Argentina started the War of Aggression and lost. Settled under international law, using the weapon of Argentina's choice.
All settled then.
”that we are a true democracy and I don’t need to be supervised”.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYVO5bUFww0
1
: the profession, activity, or skill of managing international relations, typically by a country’s representatives abroad.
2
: skill in handling affairs without arousing hostility : tact
3
:relating to the profession or skill of preserving or creating friendly relationships between countries
He's already shown his hand in that Argentina and himself are trying to deny the human rights of the Falkland's people. So they have defeated themselves before they've even started.
All this nonsense about dialogue and give peace a chance is nothing more than a bunch of lies.
Don't forget to collect your airmiles on your way out. Need them for the next time you travel economy class.
Alejandro Betts, Marcelo Vernet, Cristina's guru Ernesto Laclau and the Guardians own Mr. Gott.
Do you think Plan B is, antagonise the Brits enough that they boot the embassy and sever Relations, so they can say“Britain not acting in good faith, ignoring UN Resolution”????
I never came across something like this, except when I tried exactly that myself. And then got all huffy and snotty when I didn't get away with it.
And not only that, but yet again they bring Marcelo Luis Vernet, the man who publicly blew the gaff on their claims prior to 1829, and still apparently nobody has noticed.
With self-discrediting ineptitude of this magnitude on display, one hopes that the Anglo-Argentine committee rises to the occasion.
El Think, the elder statesman - to add his great wisdom.
Tobias, the language specialist - to help with all those translations and difficult words/phrases.
Sussie - for the personal gratification of those attending.
Marcos - for his in depth knowledge of all things pertaining to the UN resolutions and to provide more of his greats links.
puerto argentino - for his great knowledge of pirates
pirate hunter - well he has to be put in charge of security.
DoveOverDover - well Think would lost without him and he knows so much about the workings of the Falklands government and the British FO.
It is certainly not mentioned on any european news channels .
In short CFK and your looney government , no one but yourselves are interested in talks , dialogue , UN resolutions , papal ( or other ) bull , continental shelves or which the birds fly .
The Falklands are British and will remain so , a fact you are secretly quite pleased about , as the British “ militarization ” of the S Atlantic means not only have you got a visible “ enemy ” , but also your fishery protection and ASR / icebreaking cover are provide for free by the “ enemy ” RAF /RN allowing you to let your ships roll over and sink at their moorings , while you either waste the defence budget on “ Football for All” or trouser it yourselves and squirell into foreign bank accounts , which after all , is the real reason for Tinpot's visit.
I know they would need one for DoveOverDover...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygF_XJAyzf0
It would also depend on how many unaccompanied minors are in the group.
We promise not to uphold the UN Charter on human rights - as demonstrated by our public statements.
We promise to make the islanders suffer economically - as demonstrated by our falklands vessel embargo.
We promise to re-write falklands history - as demonstrated by our ignorance of our own history which we teach at our schools.
We promise to colonise the falklands - as we did on the south american continent (though we are not really colonisers - this term does not apply to us by the use of special argentine magic dust).
If you are in favour of the Argentine approach please raise your hand for a quick vote! 1 vote, thanks Alicia!
@24 Usurping Pirate: That bald midget out of the Austin Powers movies does not get press inches when he comes to the UK, so why would this one? Argentina does not realise that 99.9% of the time the Falklands are not even on the UK public's radar.
Quote: 'I here to educate the world on truth about Argentina and Malvinas.'
www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmallparty/register/argentina.htm
From personal experience, I don't believe he will find any “fellow travellers” here - he would be better off just having his meeting with Hague and the two Falklands legislators.
what is the significance of this person?
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Titman is a twat
Saying “William Hague is trying to deceive world, but we have his number” ?
Saying he is going to “debunk lies told by British Government”
Saying that the UK is “militarising the South Atlantic” when everyone knows that Argentina is itching to invade the Falkland Islands once again and bully the inhabitants like they did last time.
Cosying up to Iran!
... and this guy is supposed to be a diplomat?
Ludicrous! What a plonker!
He will never achieve his aims because he has no idea of how to make the progress Argentines want. If he is expecting the UK or the Falkland Islanders to acede he is going about it in a clumsy and belligerent fashion. The 1982 war was a result of Argentine beligerance. It didn't succeed then and it wont succeed now.
Argentina is in an economic mess and by aligning itself with Dictators and the axis of evil it is fast turning itself into a pariah nation that will be ejected from international organizations with attendant loss of influence and the impoverishment of its already impoverished people.
Instead of organizing a Eurotwats conference and making himself and his country an even bigger laughing stock ( impounded flagship and naval ships sinking in harbour due to incompetence )Mr Timerman should turn straight around at Heathrow and scuttle off back where he came from. Of course he is welcome to enjoy being in the worlds greatest city for a few days as long as he pays cash.
Seriously? The man whose Government has written into its Constitution (the most important practically unbreakable document ever) that the ONLY outcome of negotiations can be full ownership of the Falklands, has the balls to say that WE are choosing the outcome of talks? Un-fucking-believable!
www.business-standard.com/generalnews/news/khurshid-to-visit-chile-argentina/119229/
Marcelo Luis Vernet is a descendant (great or maybe great-great grandson I think) of Falklands Luis Vernet. He is a writer to trade, and part of the Argentine entourage that turns up at the C24.
At the June 2012 meeting of the C24, as part of a delegation of some 90 assorted governors, mayors, trade unionists, and what not, led by CFK and Timerman, Marcelo took an onion from his pocket and gave a highly emotional reading from the diary of his (great-)great-grandmother Mrs Luis Vernet, intended to demonstrate the bucolic existence of the Vernet settlement before the dastaradly Brit pirate usurpers turned up.
One of the passages was this :
'Sunday, 30 August 1829 was a feast day for the village. Maria writes in her diary “Very good Saint Rose of Lima day, so Vernet has decided to take possession today of the islands in the name of the government of Buenos Aires”'.
Ah ha! So if Vernet has only decided to take possession for BA in 1829, then by normal standards of logic, his settlement prior to 1829 obviously can't amount to possession. Moreover, if possession is only taken in 1829, then the purported claim of possession by Jewet in 1820 evidently was not recognised by the Buenos Aires authorities in 1829. And if I'm not mistaken, this also calls into question the validity of uti possedits juris, in that clearly there wasn't much in the way of posseditis going on before 1829.
Historical nit-picking maybe, but the fun part is that nobody in the 90+ delegation seems to have noticed Marcelo blowing a hole in the Argentine case in front of the UN and CFK herself, while his testimony remains available on Argentine government websites, such as e,g, that of the Argentine ambassador to the UN :
www.embajadaabierta.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/vernet.pdf
He would be so proud that his son has set-up a joint truth commission with Iran.
“Here we have a Jew courting a regime whose president. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad denies the Holocaust and who wants to wipe Israel off the map. And Ahmadinejad is a moderate alongside “supreme leader” Ayatollah Ali Khomeini.”
The guy is hilariously bitter now that he's poor and none of his family speak to him and he's got an argentine passport.
He is hilarious to listen to.
...and since Vernet senior sought papers from the British to allow his residence on the Falklands, who can we assume he considered had possession prior to Sunday, 30 August 1829? Might I suggest that for 'take possession' you replace 'attempt to steal'
@49 Yes. The traitor himself covered with the dry tears of loneliness from years of regret, hatred and junta support.
Everywhere you look there are lies and damned lies.
The simplest “truths” are that:
No civilian population was ever expelled
Everytime there was a murder it was an Argentine doing the murdering (Mestevier and Brisbane)
Everytime there was a rape it was an Argentine doing the raping (Mesteviers wife)
Given that between 1828-1832 there were only a couple of dozen inhabitants, and by November 1832 24 inhabitants and 50 militia...Clearly Argentina were militarising the South Atlantic to further their colonial ambitions sic..
Once Britain had established peace 140 years of relative calm followed, ruined only by more Argentine agression and 900 people died.
The pattern is clear:
When Argentina are involved, they either murder and rape each other or peaceful civilians..or start a war leading to massive death tolls.
When Britain is involved, there is order, calm and growing prosperity.
Self-determination...
I suspect it will be like watching the first night of Celebrity Big Brother and wondering “Who is that?” as each new Z-lister gets out of the limo. Remember they would have been invited to the big do BEFORE Mr T then rejected the very talks they were being invited to call for!
Curious.
Considering he didn't have any of his La Campora SA Brown shirts to protect him, the Captain had to take him upstairs to the naughty room.
Considering the number of lives he has ruined, it is very funny.
Seems to be a severe lack of common sense being shown by the, for want of a better word, Argentine delegation. Given that sovereignty is not negotiable and that has been the consistent stand of the islanders and through them, HMG. Little compromise, what ever that may entail, will not be achieved, until such time that common sense does return.
That would be a lot of fun.
Thanks mr David lets go abroad Cameron.
But protest they could,
They have no claim ,
And the more credence this government gives em, the more they push,
Or is this another one of them
Conspiracy theory’s
.
ITN and BBC latest TV news have no mention of Timerman's arrival. Internet versions of major newspapers have no mention of his presence in London.
I wonder where he is?
Looking for a thing called,
[ the truth ] lol.
.
we already have the British Falklands,
Perhaps you meant to say,
Keep the argentine -slum-lands in your CFK back side,
Rather rude about your own country,
Oh well, it takes all sorts [even liquorish ones lol..]
He's a busy man. He's auditioning for Andy Serkis' stunt double. They've given him a scene where he demands the return of the ring from Sauron, but refuses to attend any meetings if hobbits are present.
It's called cinéma vérité, I believe.
Actually it not as big in the RG press as I expected.
Timerman needs to gain big publicity from this trip or it is a massive failure, that's one reason he has been saying the most ridiculous things about Britain the last few days. He is hoping to provoke a reaction from the UK, politicians, public, press etc. If it doesn't make the news here it won't anywhere else except RG land. It will be a big blow to their colonial ambitions.
So much for his visit to London - already one day here and what momentous events have occurred? None!
The FCO seem to be just playing a straight bat to his curve balls, and it's not even newsworthy. The battenburg cake when they stop for tea is more likely to get a slight bit of interest.
Maybe someone might boo him.
“and we forgot the taste of bread, the sound of trees, the softeness of the breeze... we even forgot our own name” Julian Assange (2014)
They must have a big name up their sleeves, to go with Richard Gott and the other journalists and groups etc, I think Wednesday they meet.
Their tomorrow plan is as below...
'Chancellor official activity will begin tomorrow with a visit to the International Maritime Organization (IMO), which will be received by the secretary general of the agency, Japan's Koji Sekimizu.
Later visit the Parliament, where he will meet with the Group multiparty Argentina-UK, a legislative body chaired by Robin Walker Conservative supporting relations between the two countries.
During the meeting will also be attended by Presidents of the Commissions of Foreign Affairs Chamber of Senators and Deputies, Daniel Filmus and Guillermo Carmona, respectively.'
www.buenosairesherald.com/article/123346/uk-malvinas-meeting-not-ruled-out
Utter incompetent.
newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=55525
Most, but not all were off loaded on route to the islands, it was thought that HMS Invincibles were still aboard'
Before you Argentines get all high and mighy, just remember that you started a war with a major member of NATO, what do you think they were armed with, pea shooters.
If you think they jettisoned nuclear weapons into the ocean, your even more barking than you appear to be!
Timmerman is simply playing on people's ignorance, as they do every day with the Argentine masses.
www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/feb/05/falklands-under-our-control-argentina
What drivel. The guy has clearly been sniffing glue. 20 years left of british sovereignty, nonsense, must be printing mistake, probably meant 200 years. If the Falklands left british hands, it would become independent and britain would fight to protect it
180 years of heartache, do me a favour, you guys only started pining for it in 1941.
Britain has no support! What tosh, Britain has broken no laws, abides by the UN convention, Britain will have several countries on her side.
No persuation required... shows what they think of the islanders.
He's desperate and on a loosing streak, I guess it's in the blood.
“He has refused to meet the foreign secretary, William Hague, after the Foreign Office insisted representatives of the islands also attend. He said Hague's refusal to hold talks bewildered him ........”
He is obviously getting nowhere and is reduced to windups. Its fascinating to watch this cretin in action.
Imagine if Hague had gone to Buenos Aires and organised a meeting of Pro Falklanders and was deliberately insulting Argentina and CFK right under her nose. CFK and all would be hysterical. The media would be in a frenzy. She would demand they apologise and leave immediately whilst calling them all names under the sun and busing in her trusty vatayon militante and villeros and....
That the UK is tolerating this circus shows the difference right here between the 2 countries.
“Sunday, 30 August 1829 ... Vernet has decided to take possession today of the islands in the name of the government of Buenos Aires”
Note that Vernet received his authority during the “Revolutionary Government” of General Juan Galo de Lavalle, who usurped the governorship of Buenos Aires 01 December 1828. Lavalle murdered the incumbent governor of Buenos Aires, Manuel Dorrego on 13 December 1828.
Thus Vernet received his “authority” from the illegal and unconstitutional government of Buenos Aires (Argentina as a state did not exist).
Indeed. Vernet is rather a loose nail for them to be hanging their coat on. But what else have they got?
But more realist
Argentina will come under Falklands control..
.
“Falklands will be under our control within 20 years, says Argentina”
Along with the Moon, Venus, Jupiter, Atlantis, Never never land, Telly Tubbies land, Middle Earth, Paraguay, Uraguay, Chile, Thomas the Tank Engine's shunting station and the piece of USA you tried to invade in the 19th century.
I say, Patagonia will be independent of Argentina in 20 years time, and trading with an independent Falkland Islands.
My far fetched assumption is more likely than Argentina's typically latino macho boast, which will end up with all Argentine arrogant macho boasts-defeat, a white flag, and exactly the opposite occurring.
www.facebook.com/HonourRestored
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