Tuesday, February 5th 2013 - 00:24 UTC

Argentine leaders’ ‘creative lies’ according to a leading Italian newspaper

A leading Italian newspaper has published a very critical piece on Argentina, its honesty and what it describes as the succession of ‘creative lies’ in the country’s recent history going back to the myth about Evita Peron, the blood thirsty generals, Maradona, Carlos Menem one peso/one dollar, Cristina Kirchner and the latest the clash with the IMF over manipulation of official inflation and GDP stats.

The page of the Corriere Della Sera dedicated to Cristina Fernandez

Under the heading of “Creative lies from Argentine friends Maradona, Kirchner and false stats”, the Corriere della Sera begins the article in the front page with the IMF ‘declaration of censure’ and enumerates a succession of events including the famous ‘1 dollar equals 1 Peso’ from President Carlos Menem time that led to the massive default of 2001 and heavy losses, among others, to 300.000 Italian pensioners holders of Argentine sovereign bonds: the so called in Italy, ‘tango-bonds’.

“Argentine candidates lie to the people, and they know it. They also lie if elected during and after leaving office, and the long tradition of exaggerations, omissions, conspiration and hearsays which always crop up are considered matters of State”, writes Rocco Cotroneo who works for the Italian daily from Brazil.

“It’s as if the whole nation lied before the world. Obviously it is not so and millions of serious, honest and hardworking Argentines are evidence to this; but also suffering as beaten dogs, as has happened these days with the umpteenth foolish incident, this time with the IMF.

“Cristina Kirchner as her husband Nestor, have been cheating with the inflation stats for years, plus the refusal to publish some stats that are key to the economy, ‘unconceivable for a democracy’ “.

The article then quotes the great Argentine writer Jorge Luis Borges who referring to the Peronists (the largest political movement in Argentina) and the spiritual mentors of Cristina Fernandez said: “they are not good or bad, they are simply incorrigible”.

Rocco points out to the current history revisionism, involving Evita Peron, “Cristina Fernandez maximum myth” , full of white lies beginning with her age: “she was not born in 1922, but in 1919 and the Broadway musical exaggerated her background, she was not of a miserable origin but rather belonged to a middle class solid family; however official propaganda did the job”.

As to the military dictatorships they lied to the country most of the time and to the world: the blood-thirsty generals denied torturing and massacring their own people, declared victory over the UK during the Falklands’ war…and Carlos Menem did not lose the habit. He made the Argentine believe during ten years that One Peso was the same as One Dollar until the tragic end with the ‘tango-bonds’

And let’s not forget the famous hand of God of Maradona during the match with England at the World Cup in 1986, who denied having scored with his fist but rather that it had been ‘the hand of God’.

However in an honest admission Rocco says that in all these lies and cheatings, Italians have a share of blame: “over 50% of the blood circulating in the River Plate comes from our backyard”.

Finally the piece concludes recalling what president Cristina Fernandez confessed to a Harvard student: “I always speak with journalists” although to be honest “in seven years the lady President has never held any press conference with the Argentine media”.

111 comments Feed

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1 reality check (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 12:41 am Report abuse
so much for support from the entire world, let alone the EU.
2 toxictaxitrader2 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 01:26 am Report abuse
People beginning to catch on??
you can fool part of the world all of the time,you can fool all the world part of the time,but with the internet they will learn the TRUTH
3 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 01:40 am Report abuse
Guess what gringos, non vai vedere niente...

Not one cent is going to the italians who are owed, simple as that. Suck it up like the rest of the nations of the world. Argentina will do as it pleases with OUR money.
4 Orbit (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 01:40 am Report abuse
They don't mention the hundreds of “non-creative lies”, which are otherwise known as “lies”. Or in CFK's case, it is known as “speaking”.
5 Anglotino (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 01:48 am Report abuse
Ouch! I though it was just the British and the Commonwealth countries that saw through the continual lies by the Argentine government.

Reminds me of the boy who cried wolf.... eventually lies catch up with you.
6 hp_25 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 01:54 am Report abuse
Who believes the italians?
They should be correcting their own mistakes together with the UK!
7 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 01:59 am Report abuse
These Europeans are a moral plague. No one believes a word from their “newspapers”. FT, Le Monde, ABC, Corriere, Spiegel... all CRAP of lies.
8 andy65 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 02:01 am Report abuse
@Nostrolldamus the 8th Not very nice way to speak about your blood brothers you nasty piece of shit THE WHOLE WORLD knows what a lieing cheating country you are
9 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 02:03 am Report abuse

I'm not European you deformed slime of euro-trash. I would have killed myself years ago had that been the case.
10 andy65 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 02:08 am
Comment removed by the editor.
11 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 02:11 am Report abuse

1. Deny the Falklanders self-determination rights.
2. Insult anyone's mother.

The rest of you deny Argentines self-determination, and insult my mother. That sums the class, honor, morality, and probity of the average European and their bastard children in North America and Australasia.

Thank you for not being one of you.
12 andy65 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 02:17 am
Comment removed by the editor.
13 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 02:26 am Report abuse
What truth? European newspapers are trusted by NO ONE with a half-neuron.
14 andy65 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 02:36 am Report abuse
Nostrolldamus the 8th LOL look whats playing out in Argentina IMF Bondholders and your talking about newspapers,you need to wise up my friend your country is no different now than when you were throwing eachother from military planes 30 years ago thanks to that NAZI duo The Kirchners.
The sooner The old Botox Queen joins her dead husband Nazi Nestor the better all round
15 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 02:41 am Report abuse

And you are no different now than from the time you were torturing and deracinating each other in the Cromwell era.

Nothing is happening in Argentina. IMF has no power over us (we paid them off), bondholders are will never see a cent, and UK, US, EU, Japan, Brazil, China et all have lost against Argentina in the trade war.
16 andy65 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 02:47 am
Comment removed by the editor.
17 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 02:54 am Report abuse
My shithole has the number 1 one wine in 2012, gourmet cafes opening all over the place, a diversified economy, no mass shootings, sunny weather, snow-capped mountains, no triple-dip recession, no muslim or IRA/Basque terrorism, no skinhead murders, no mafia, the most stable provincial government perhaps in South America, where every 4 years a new governor quietly assumes his role, no fuss, no feuds.

Maybe one day Europe will reach our level.
18 andy65 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 02:56 am Report abuse
@Nostrolldamus the 8th seriously I think you need to get a grip with reality LOL what a joke
19 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 02:58 am Report abuse

Mendoza #1.
20 andy65 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 03:04 am Report abuse
Just like Hector and Crissy you believe all that shit you write, there are more murders in B.A than in the whole of The United Kingdom over a 12 month period,cafes opening where no one can offord to sit and drink wine that taste like cats piss (my own opinion ofcourse)
21 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 04:20 am Report abuse

“If there is one thing I HAVE NEVER DONE HERE IS TWO THINGS:

1. Deny the Falklanders self-determination rights.
2. Insult anyone's mother.

The rest of you deny Argentines self-determination, and insult my mother. That sums the class, honor, morality, and probity of the average European and their bastard children in North America and Australasia.”

Oh, stop being a child.

We'll call you names and insult you, just as you do to us.
This moral indignation of yours is petty and ridiculous.
Grow up, and stop pouting. Pull that lower lip back in.

Next, you'll be saying we're offending God and mothers are sacred, yadda yadda yadda... Good grief, do you know how juvenile you sound?
22 mastershakejb (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 05:01 am Report abuse
you're gonna burst a blood vessel if you keep screenstaring so furiously @ mercopress comments. The whole world sees your country has been a continual failure since 1960, and you'll be painfully reminded of that again SOON enough ;)
23 Ayayay (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 05:32 am Report abuse
@17 :D Sounds great-jnow I wanna go back! Wishing Mendoza's influence rubs off on it's fed gov.
24 Richfe (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 07:34 am Report abuse

Think/don't drink before you type: you're coming across as racist/anti-Semitic whether you are or not. You're sounding as childish as Nostrolldamus...
25 Austral (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 07:40 am Report abuse
@6 - would generally agree with you on this one but the Corriere della Sera is pretty bold and a good, critical paper. Kind of like Clarin in terms of its independence from politics.

It is a sad indictment to see the Latin members of the EU turning their attentions way south notwithstanding the bonds of culture and history.
26 Anglotino (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 08:32 am Report abuse
@11 Tobias

I actually agree and support you to a degree there is no place for the filth that Andy65 is spewing (pull ya head in mate) and he can thank me if his comment is removed. But try to take the high road sometimes mate, insulting people like me for no reason with comments like “average European and their bastard children in North America and Australasia” is the reason we all think you are 12.

I'm Australian with a purely European background. I'm proud of that. Especially considering, racially, Argentina has a higher European population than Australia.

Attacking Italians or Europeans is proof of what this article was highlighting. Populism in the Argentina body-politic is Argentina's own worse enemy. It can't keep blaming everyone else for its own misdeeds and problems.

Mendoza may be everything you claim it to be, but it is still part of Argentina and as an Argentinean you have to take responsibility for that too.
27 Shed-time (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 08:41 am Report abuse
Well, the Italians are all fully aware of the effects of the Tango-bonds, from just speaking to them casually. It seems they're all aware of the lies and revisionism that are consistent with Argentinians too.

The only people Argentinians are fooling are themselves, apparently.
28 yasu (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 09:07 am Report abuse
Ecellent article about Argentinian Lies. As the lies have become so rampant esepcially with CFK, we are not really surprised by this article, though lies by politicians have been here among many countries such as Rajoy, Cameron, Barraso, Hollande, Sarcozy, and No. 1 liar, Obama and No. 2 Merkel.
29 Shed-time (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 09:41 am Report abuse
@28 Yasu, I think the point is that 'telling lies' and revisionism is an inseparable part of Argentine society, rather than just a few MPs telling lies as with most societies.

The cultural strategy of Viveza Criolla is an important part of being Argentine. Basically lying to people and then laughing at them once you've cheated them out of money or something else is how they work as a society.
30 LEPRecon (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 10:36 am Report abuse
@11 - Tobias

I always find it funny when you slag off Europeans. It's especially funny as you are of European descent. All your neighbours are of European descent. Your country is of European descent. The language you speak is a European language.

So what you are really saying is that you hate yourself. And that I can believe.

Oh, and don't give me any of that 'I'm a native Amerindian' crap, because you're not, except in your own imgination.

Your government are liars. In the past few days alone they have told such blatant lies, that it actually beggars belief.

People like you Tobias, are what is wrong with Argentina. Refusing to accept responsibility. Refusing to accept that you are flawed. Refusing to accept reality.

The more your government lies and has hysterical outbursts, the more trouble Argentina actually has. Burying your head in the sand won't save you Tobias.

Denying the reality of what is happening won't save you Tobias. Pretending everything is okay won't save you Tobias.

The crap is building up, and soon it will hit the fan.

The question is what will Argentina do? Accept that these problems are all self-inflicted or adopt the usual stance of blaming everyone else in the world?

Argentina needs a government made up of serious people who will encourage investment in Argentina, which will allow you to tap your natural resources. These can then be sold at market value to produce a lot of wealth for the country, but the government needs to invest any revenue in Argentina, and not use it to make themselves richer.

With the right government Argentina's infrastructure would improve. It's schools and hospitals would improve. The standard of living for everyone, especially the poor, would improve.

By facing reality, there is a good chance that Argentina will overcome these difficulties. But it needs serious people who care more about Argentina and her people than they do about lining their own pockets.
31 Rufus (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 10:40 am Report abuse
Incidentally (apologies for being slightly OT) what's this I hear about the Argentine government forcing the largest supermarkets to not raise their prices in line with inflation for two months?

Could it be that their new inflation index (the one that isn't powered by ArgentinaMaths) is showing inflation so critically high that it's worth effectively shutting down their retail sector? And what is going to happen in two months time when prices have gone up another 5%?
32 Shed-time (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 10:55 am Report abuse
@31 The point of getting them to fix prices for two months is because they want to fix the prices of 'a typical basket of goods' across the country during the first few months of the new CPI. This new inflation index will then look like inflation is very very low from February to April, and will allow the Kirchener regime to pretend that they were right all along with inflation showing itself to be far below the 30%+ that we all know it to be.

Additionally they want to use it to prevent the unions asking for a 25%+ pay hike every year, which given their grumblings is a broad indicator of the fact inflation is well above 25%.

It's just another method of stalling the IMF, who I would hope can see right through it.
33 Room101 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 11:02 am Report abuse
Nostrolldamus...no need to kill yourself over your EU scapegoating... rest in peace... your mind is dead already.
34 DanyBerger (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 11:07 am Report abuse
Wow just the Italians press talking about Argentina ha ha ha
Jealous perhaps?
35 Clyde15 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 11:15 am Report abuse
I am trying to understand your racial origins and genetic background. Give or take, five hundred years ago there were virtually no Europeans in what is now Argentina.
The population would have been Amerindian.
Waves of settlers moved into the land from Spain originally and then migration mainly from other parts of Europe from mid 19th century onwards. This would mean a mainly white genetic gene pool with some interbreeding between other ethnic groups You can call yourselves Argentinian, but your genetic make up, in the main, came from Europe.
So, the point I am asking is, are the current Argentinian population a new species of mankind that have evolved within 300 years, and are markedly different from the rest of mankind ?

Your quote about Mendoza may be true but is it true for Argentina as a whole ?
36 Conqueror (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 12:00 pm Report abuse
@3 It's not “your” money. It's theirs. More proof. Argie thieves.
@6 Everyone does. More evidence.
@7 Quite psychotic, aren't you?
@11 You had a “mother”? Don't believe it. It's not the way bacteria reproduce.
@15 Watch. There's always a way!
@17 “Your” shithole has nothing but what you've st0len.
@34 Best you can do? Let's explain. Almost anyone is more believable than an argie.
37 Shed-time (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 01:29 pm Report abuse
Argies gonna lie.

End of.
38 Anbar (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 01:38 pm Report abuse
“”The rest of you deny Argentines self-determination“”

thats because you are colonising the land where the only legitimate self-determination belongs to the indigenous Amerindians, not to you European colonists.

39 GFace (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 01:50 pm Report abuse
@35. Like i said before, it's a narcissistic variant of new-world special creation mythology (areal concept in the evolution/creationist “controversy”) so modern Argentina is immune from being considered an implanted population and therefore uniquely immune from all criticism, especially the criticism it deserves, and entitled to all the land (and I guess also money) it can grab. His mitochondrial and y-chromosonal haploids would disagree with him, of course. But this IS the mental head case who put Saddam Hussein on equal victimhood with Poland under the Nazis in a childish inarticulate fit of whataboutery. The kid has some serious chemical imbalances from the neck up.
40 yankeeboy (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 02:17 pm Report abuse
Toby always brings up how great Mendoza is because it is all he knows. I am sure Iranians and N. Koreans think their cities are beautiful and thriving since they've never seen anything else there is nothing to compare it to.

I will admit it is a pretty city but it is not what I would call cosmopolitan. It is also very dangerous and has US State Dept warnings to be careful when traveling. One thing that struck me as odd is they have open drainage ditches with little bridges to get form the road to the sidewalks. I would bet a lot of drunks miss those bridges!
41 Shed-time (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 02:31 pm Report abuse
1) are you suggesting that North Korea isn't a beautiful socialist utopia crowned with the sounds of children singing around the golden effigies of the glorious leader reaching out to pull people into the idealism of communist living in the beautiful city of Hoeryong (회령)? I do hope you're not.

2) are you suggesting that Argentina isn't a beautiful socialist utopia crowned with the sounds of children singing around the golden effigies of the glorious leader reaching out to pull people into the idealism of communist living in the city of Mendoza? I do hope you're not.
42 andy65 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 02:41 pm Report abuse
My apologies to anyone who found some of my earlier remarks not fit for this forum none of them were lies but could have been written in a less offensive way,I certainly wish some of The British press would give Mr Timerman a few home truths instead of letting him drag our country through the mud.
43 Clyde15 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 03:14 pm Report abuse
A bit of a dichotomy here. The paper is lying BUT the whole world agrees and supports Argentina. Square the circle please - it's beyond my mathematical ability.
44 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 03:39 pm Report abuse

It's called “history”, something of course Europeans and Americans do much work to forget it is so ignominious.

Without those “ditches” (acequias), none of the trees you see in the city would survive, since the city lies in the world's 2nd highest rainshadow after Tibet.
45 DanyBerger (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 03:50 pm Report abuse
Hey Lep wrong

why you don't not use all your wonderful piece of advise but in UK may be you are lucky and save your country to fall from the Dover cliff.

Will you...

Don't trust European we are liars, jealous people and like to steal other people's land. And tell everybody what to do but we don't like any critics because we are superior to everyone with few exception like the British of course. They are good for nothing, like parasites waiting a good opportunity to steal any piece of land.

We are also dirty I know very well that from my own experience I have 3 months without taking a shower and I still feel clean compared with the Brits of course that are more dirty than us.

I'm starting to hate myself and you know what?
I feel really good.

Well I'm feeling sad so let's put some humor to tis stupid discussion...

How many British are need to steal your country after you meet one?
None because you have no country anymore.
Ha ha ha
46 yankeeboy (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 03:51 pm Report abuse
44. Yeah but in civilized countries the muddy ditches are covered so you can't fall in them!
We call them storm drains.
Must be kinda cool living like its the late 1800s

Sad little creature trying to look worldly.
It would be charming if your personality wasn't so awful.
47 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 03:54 pm Report abuse

“No one trust Europeans”

That goes without saying. Argentina is the only nation on Earth that is standing up to them, and where we are taught the real history of European colonization & Imperaliasm for 400 years.

The saddest part is they think we hate them. Well' we sort of do, but only because to this day they refuse to say “Sorry”. If only they did that, oh how different things could be.

Paying the 137 trillion in economic damages to the Americas, Asia, and Africa would go the rest of the way, and they would be a respected culture again. But putting their heads in the sand about their past simply doesn't lend those that suffered their iniquities to attempt a reconciliation.

Imagine if I spit on you, threw mud at you, then stole your wallet and spent all the money... and then I was mad at YOU for being “mean” or “hating” me.
48 Captain Poppy (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 04:01 pm Report abuse
Yankee....do you think Dumburger is a new troll? His english grammer has turned to shit. He (assuming a he) use to speak and type much better? I've noticed that in various posts in different articles.
49 yankeeboy (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 04:07 pm Report abuse
48. I am not sure these trolls have so many different nicks it is hard to say.
He could be eating their poison lemons or the tainted beef and it is making him a little more stupid day by day.

The Rg embassy can't do passports any longer they're asking the Rgs to fly back to BA and get them in the airport with a 1day turn around for U$300! My friend lost his passport and is terrified to go back because there is a rumor the is going to be a travel ban put in place shortly and he may get trapped.
Those rumors usually pan out
scary stuff
50 Shed-time (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 04:13 pm Report abuse
@49 I'm pretty sure that is simply to ensure a trickle of money into the coffers of La Campora who have single-handedly ruined their state airline, and stolen most of the cash.

If you force people to go to BA they'd probably choose the cheapest method.
51 Pirat-Hunter (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 04:33 pm Report abuse
Lol look at the poor poor euro trash come here to tell us Argentine how to turn our beautifully Argentina into another filthy euro trash racist murderous society. I got an idea, why don't the Europeans and English men fix their racist society murderers of Muslim women children before trying to teach Argentine anything, we learn all we need to know from the mass killing of Muslim for oil by the English men with the help of european silence and compliance, that's all,  leave Argentina affairs to us Argentines, it's evident you people don't speak for us. If anything you people speak for a criminal institution like UK.
#19 keep up the good work buddy don't let this bastards impose their brainless backwards mentality on Argentina's news threads.
52 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 04:38 pm Report abuse
@47 TTTroll
“Imagine if I spit on you, threw mud at you, then stole your wallet and spent all the money... and then I was mad at YOU for being “mean” or “hating” me.”

You just described Argentina!!
53 andy65 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 04:39 pm Report abuse
@Pirat-Hunter, Ofcourse Argentina or it's governmant never tells lies, Now what was that the IMF censored youir country for last week??? your Mr Timerman is making himself look so stupid its so funny he not only speaks for Argentina but as now become the official spokesman of the world.
54 Tobers (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 04:42 pm Report abuse
@Clyde, Anglotino

Ive been to Mendoza. Im not the only one who'll say there are nice parts for sure. There are also some truly hideous areas of poverty and crime that you wouldnt find to anywhere near the same scale in any Western European city. -Tobias- is deliberately misleading by focusing on the good stuff and ignoring the substantial bad stuff.
55 Captain Poppy (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 04:57 pm Report abuse
pisshunter, I just came back from 3 1/2 weeks in Argentina, when was the last time you walked through the trash on the streets there? NEVER! All you trolls love something you never seen and hate someplace you never been to. The free world calls that brainwashing......re-education or re-indoctrination.......your choxie what you can call it.
56 Welsh Wizard (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 05:03 pm Report abuse

Rumours, from where? And on what grounds could they possibly do this? Any links?

57 yankeeboy (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 05:24 pm Report abuse
56. I don't know where the rumors are originating from I will ask him.

Why couldn't they do it? The law is whatever CFK wants it to be. I don't see it as being much different than not being able to exchange the peso or import (legal) products both of those things were doable just over a year ago and now they are not.

It is the next logical step to control the outbound U$ is it not?

Welsh I hope you don't live there.
The tide has turned against CFK and everything is going to get much worse very quickly.
58 Welsh Wizard (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 05:38 pm Report abuse

Point taken, there is nothing technically stopping them, if you can change the law you can do anything and it would be an extension of stopping US$ from leaving the country.

I don't live there, the in-laws do so it would affect them (and to an extent, me). This is all starting to become quite interesting...27th Feb will be the big one...
59 andy65 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 05:51 pm Report abuse
One of these big organisations like IMF or courts with ref to bondholders need to win or come down heavy on Argentina to show them once and for all they just can not behave like this and think they can get away with it.
Slowness to act is giving Kirchner to much confidence.
60 toooldtodieyoung (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 06:07 pm Report abuse
47 Tito The Clown Troll

Oh, you are a joke arn't you?? I mean really, you are a joke!! Your country is the laughing stock of the UN and, as if to underline that, Laughing boy Timerman is in the UK, hoping that if he shouts loud enough, people will take him seriously when all he is doing is embarrassing himself.... KFC and her cronies have ruined your country and set ecomonic development back........oh, i'd say about 50 years and here you are, on here, with your bottom buddy, Pirat-Hunter, calling the Italians liars!!!!!!

You are a joke!! now, run along home to your mum, she will be worried that you are out so late.
61 andy65 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 06:17 pm Report abuse
SKY NEWS reporting MPS found Timermans speach DEEPLY OFFENSIVE
62 Optimus_Princeps (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 06:29 pm Report abuse
@56 WelshWizard These rumors have been circulating for over a year. The mad cow needs our money to pay the lowlife scum to vote for her, and to buy her Gucci outfits. Usually, these rumors become fact within a matter of months.

Those with dual citizenship like myself won't tolerate such nonsense. Though some of my friends are in tears that this will happen soon. Botox is known to cause irrational and unpredictable behavior.

Despite that most of the population is overly docile for the amount of political abuse here, some people are on the verge of going on a scum bag shooting spree. I'm hoping things don't get that bad, but anything's possible.
63 mastershakejb (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 06:42 pm Report abuse
Mendoza is one of Argentina's best....unfortunately it would be the worst in some states in the USA. I've been all over Mendoza, probly know it better than any of these ragerambling Argies. Compared to the Western world it barely breaks “OK” status, but for Argentina, it's one of the best they've got.
Unfortunately Mendoza still has to live under the federal Argentine system, and thus has totally effed prices/inflation, etc.
64 Shed-time (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 07:10 pm Report abuse
@61 Isn't it illegal to find a jewish person's speech offensive? Surely it means that you're a Nazi, right?
65 Ayayay (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 07:10 pm Report abuse
Let's make it clear that I wouldn't want to go back for the businesses (encountered not-honesty, unsmiling gaces, crazy inefficiency), or for the -average- standard of living (there were people working in the toilets!!),

but for the poetry
the naturaleza (like mine, here)
The wine culture
And the kissing was the best in the world.
66 Santa Fe (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 07:38 pm Report abuse
The while world supports us Jajajajajajaja don't look like it Rgs
67 Vuggevise (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 07:48 pm Report abuse
@6 hp_25

Who believes the Italians? That would be just about everyone .. including the overwhelming majority of Argentinians. Next stupid question?
68 andy65 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 07:58 pm Report abuse
@64 Shed-time, So they should feel offended with the rubbish coming from his mouth.

MPs slam Argentina on islands poll

The Argentine foreign minister has been involved in heated exchanges with MPs after he insisted the Falkland Islanders had no right to self-determination.

Appearing at a meeting of the all-party group on Argentina at Westminster, Hector Timerman insisted he wanted to open a dialogue with Britain.

But there was anger when he made clear that Buenos Aires would not recognise the result of a referendum of the islanders next month on whether they wished to remain part of the British Overseas Territories.

Earlier, he used a newspaper interview to claim that the islands would be under Argentine control within 20 years, while denouncing the British as “fanatics”.

The Falklands Islands parliament wrote to Mr Timerman warning “no amount of harassment and intimidation” would change their minds that they did not want to be ruled from Buenos Aires.

Mr Timerman, making his first visit to Britain as foreign minister, had previously rejected a meeting with Foreign Secretary William Hague after the Foreign Office insisted the islanders representatives must be present.

Appearing in a packed Commons committee room, Mr Timerman sought to assure MPs and peers that he wanted to start a dialogue with the UK “as soon as possible”.

However he ran into trouble when he insisted that the dispute over the Falklands was a matter for the two governments, and that there was no place for a referendum.

“I am willing to listen to Mr Hague - anything he wants to tell me about the subjects he happens to represent,” he said.

“The self-determination referendum doesn't apply to the Malvinas. It is not a colonised people, it is a colonised territory.”
69 BenC30 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 08:02 pm Report abuse
Getting rather concerned about Pirat-Hunter, perhaps he should up his medication?
70 hh_68 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 08:14 pm Report abuse
@67 Veggie
is a statement not a question.
Spain and Argentina don't trust Italy and the UK.
Argentinians are spanish speaking people.
71 Think (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 08:18 pm Report abuse

And, yet again, an appallingly poor translation from MercoPress…....
Full of voluntary errors, exaggerations, omissions and assorted tall stories …..

Anyhow…..An interesting article from the ”Corriere della Sera”….
I recommend it:

I especially liked…(Correctly Traduced):

1) “Political candidates lie, this is known…. So many rulers do whilst in office and after…. But in Argentina, exaggerations, omissions and assorted tall stories are always a “matter of State”……
(Huhhhhhhhhh….!!! Politicians lying to the people…… ….. What a ”Unique” Argentinean trait.)

2) “ Evita Peron was not born in 1922, as she always said but in 1919”…….
(Huhhhhhhhhh….!!! A Lady lying about her age…… What a”Unique” Argentinean trait.)

3) “They lied to the Country and to the world, the murdering generals of the dictatorship”…….
(Huhhhhhhhhh….!!! Military Dictators lying to the World…… What a”Unique” Argentinean trait.)

4) In principle, Diego Maradona didn’t lie about his famous hand-goal against England at the World Cup in 1986…. He didnn’t deny it, he just said it was the “hand of god” ….
(Huhhhhhhhhh….!!! A Sportsman lying to the press…… What a”Unique” Argentinean trait.)

Black Market dollar going down, down, down…….

Oceania del Polonio, here I come :-)))
72 yasu (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 08:20 pm Report abuse
Thereare many wrong information on some of opinions expressed. For eample, Argentina could not pay IMF loans but fortunataly oil rich Venezuera bought AR. bonds in total about 5 billion dollars with that money Kirchner paid off the IMF debts. I like Nestor Kirchner who stood up the powerful IMF, humbling it. However, CFK is not giving true statistical information to it. As long as you are its member, you have to perform your obligations as a member. If you cook statistics, as evidenced by other AR non-governmebt statistics indicate, it is natural that the IMF ask AR to submit true statistics.
Actually, AR is a rich country, but bad politicians on after another such as Menen and CFK intentiannly try to wreck its economy. it can not become a world power.
73 Vuggevise (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 08:31 pm Report abuse
@70 hh_68

Well you got an answer. Sorry if you couldn't handle the truth; but tough shit.
74 sacharin (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 08:42 pm Report abuse
@73 Veggie
The true is that argentinians speak spanish and don't give a shit what the italian newspapers said.
Pay attention, read the UK newspapers printing the royal scandals, the british riots, etc.!
75 Vuggevise (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 08:49 pm Report abuse
@70 hh_68

By the way, I hope you don't delude yourself that anyone in Spain trusts Argentina .. because they don't. And factually, Spain has better diplomatic relations with the UK than it does with Argentina … much better, so I guess Argentinians speaking pidgin Spanish doesn't hold as much sway as you assumed. Then again, hardly surprising, since Britain doesn't sneakily steal Spanish financial assets to shore up their laughable economy.

@74 sacharin

See above.

Likewise, no-one gives a monkey’s cuss what an deluded Argie thinks .. least of all what your Foreign Minister, Hector Zimmaframe, pretends to think in order to endear himself to the gullible Peronistas.

Royal scandals and riots? What royal scandals? Harry getting his kit off? Hardly a scandal .. his popularity ratings have soared. And it would behove you to be aware that Argentina has had quite literally dozens of major riots since there were last any in Britain. Do keep up with the news .. assuming they are allowed to report the truth in Argieland.
76 andy65 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 08:53 pm Report abuse
@75 Vuggevise Any short comings the UK might have is nothing compared to that corupt nation Argentina

IMF declares them as LIARS

Bondholders holding out for FULL payment of debts (and rightly so)

More arguments in several organisations than any other country

Things can only get better (not)
77 Vuggevise (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 08:57 pm Report abuse
@76 andy65

Kind of had to pull out of a free fall .. and theirs is a one-way ticket to oblivion :D
78 andy65 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 09:40 pm Report abuse
@78 j_j If it wasn't for your desperate governmant Hector and Crissy (sounds like a music hall joke) you wouldn't be hearing from us, lets face it they are doing a good job of destroying Argentina we would be far happier watching with the occasional chuckle everytime Tinman and the botox queen hopen there mouth.
79 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 09:53 pm Report abuse
I think Pirat Hunter, Sussie, Danny Berger, Josefa Malvinera, and myself have been pretty clear in our language about Europeans.

You people did not want to believe me, but an anti-European wave has swept Argentina. Once people were taught in schools the truth about Europe in the now obligatory “European Imperialism and Subjugation history” class, we've woken up.

We've always been anti-US and anti-Latin Americans so that goes beyond saying.
80 andy65 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 10:34 pm Report abuse
@80 Nostrolldamus the,Yes we are all aware of how you teach primary school children lies and propoganda. You really are a sad individual to revel in such a thing,still I think Hector got the message today,another major embarrassment with more lies,silly man.
81 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 10:36 pm Report abuse

Where is the lie in that title? Did the nations of Western Europe build empires by subjugating others, yes or no?
82 yasu (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 10:41 pm Report abuse
Some of the Argentinians present their nationalistic arguments, and as Russian president has stated, Nationalism is harmful. Those Argentinians should base their argument on facts. I do not like the IMF but as long as Argentina is its member, it should provide believable statistics, not the ones cocked by CFK. She should realize that lies can not hold forever.
83 andy65 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 10:42 pm Report abuse
@82 Nostrolldamus ,The lie you teach children about the Falkland Islands,how many empires would you like to discuss how far back would you like to go,you see being bitter and twisted is what's holding Argentina back YES OR NO?????
84 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 10:48 pm Report abuse
Bitter and twisted no, we just have long memories and don't forgive easily the crimes done in Africa, Asia, etc by Europe.
85 andy65 (#) Feb 05th, 2013 - 11:00 pm Report abuse
Argentina seems like an open wound that will not heel always looking for something or someone to blame for it's own downfalls,even Hector talks about our debts yet it is Argentina that have the bailiffs rapping at the door it is Argentina who are fighting of creditors, it is Argentina that as to think twice before using it's own asets beyond it's borders for fear of being inpounded it's Argentina thats been censored for telling lies and no matter who your governmant talk to people and organisations come to the same conclusion Argentina tells lies and once again the press in the British House of Commons come to the same conclusion stop telling lies. If Argentina thinks that it can go it alone after pissing all these organisations of then go ahead do it lets see how long you will last.
86 Anglotino (#) Feb 06th, 2013 - 12:15 am Report abuse
Nostrolldamus it is very sad indeed that you so happily place yourself in the same category as “Pirat Hunter, Sussie, Danny Berger, Josefa Malvinera”.

For they do your country a great disservice. And on an intellectual level you actually know this.

Propaganda and indoctrination by any government to further their agenda is a moral stain on a civil society.

Argentina was founded by Europeans. It is settled by European. It may not be European but it is OF Europe. It doesn't matter how you try to twist it, together with Chile it is the most European country in South America.

Denying your heritage is not only shameful but pitiful actually. You denigrate everything all your ancestor fought and strove for to give you all you now have.
87 yasu (#) Feb 06th, 2013 - 12:32 am Report abuse
My understanding of Portenos (people of Buesno Aires) is that they talk as if they are really devoted to the benefits and welfare of Argentina, but when it comes to their own benefits or welfare, they can use Argentinian flag as a toilet paper. Of course it is true that many of us are opportunists, who tell lies after lies, such as Merkel of Germany, prostitute numero uno (ex communist with red flags and now servant of big banks such as Deutche Bank), Holland, fascist and immperialist with a camoflage of socialist, Rajoy, perpetual liar, Bunga Bunga boy, though he is a very intersting politician, ex-salesman, Cameron, perpetual liar, and now we have the biggest liar in the form of president of that proud country of Argentina, CFK. It is really unfortunate that CFK is from Latin America, because Latin America including caribean islands is the front line against the US and European imperialism, but the economic policy of CFK is weakening this. Urguarian president, Mejica, the one of the cleanest politician in the world, is openign against the CFK policy. If Chavez is healthy and actie, he could have advised CFK against her economic policy, esepcially he has a very close relationship with her. When Nestor dies, he remained in Argentina and accompanies her to the burial ground of Nestor. He is very smart, knowledgeable.
88 andy65 (#) Feb 06th, 2013 - 12:47 am Report abuse
Dam reading this I thought it was about Zimbabwe

89 mastershakejb (#) Feb 06th, 2013 - 01:58 am Report abuse
Argentina = anti-EVERYONE.
Everyone is out to get you! Its a huge conspiracy! LOLOL
90 simona68 (#) Feb 06th, 2013 - 02:10 am Report abuse
@90 Mustardshaker
Argentina don't give shit about “enemies”
91 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 06th, 2013 - 04:39 am Report abuse

I am not denigrating anyone from the past. They had to do what they had to do. Now, I have to do what I have to do. Argentina is being attacked by EARTH, as a famous aussie song said “better to die on your feet than to live on your knees”.

I am ready to die, but to yield to the foreigners, NEVER.
92 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 06th, 2013 - 05:37 am Report abuse
”Nostrolldamus it is very sad indeed that you so happily place yourself in the same category as “Pirat Hunter, Sussie, Danny Berger, Josefa Malvinera”.

Yes, but he likes the attention, anyway.

93 Wryter47 (#) Feb 06th, 2013 - 09:40 am Report abuse
Regarding the bonds for Italian pensioners: I think the idea of caveat emptor is important to remember here. The bonds were offering 20 percent yields, which should have alerted someone to their fragility. Additionally, Italy took the bonds originally for income, and when they started to tank, they broke them up into $1000 bits and handed them over to the retirement system, thus assuring that the government wouldn't lose the money -- only the retirees. This is a tradegy and something that has been barely reported but needs to be said. To me it's a case of “a pox on both your houses” -- Argentina for creating the bonds and the Italians for buying them. Shame abounds.
94 Clyde15 (#) Feb 06th, 2013 - 10:39 am Report abuse
I have to do what I have to do. What exactly is that ?

Argentina is being attacked by EARTH,

Now, if it were true, which it isn't , why do you think that is. Could it be your government's attitude to the rest of the world.
A good percentage of the world has never heard of Argentina and could care even less. According to your government Brasil, Venezuela, Ecuador and Iran are your great chums. What is your problem ?
95 DanyBerger (#) Feb 06th, 2013 - 10:52 am Report abuse

“It doesn't matter how you try to twist it, together with Chile it is the most European country in South America”

Together with Chile?

I guess you are confused with Uruguay because Chilean are most Aborigines.
96 ChrisR (#) Feb 06th, 2013 - 12:25 pm Report abuse
Yes folks, Dunny-Burger is most certainly NOT the guy from last year.

That guy did at least know about computers, some level of Blob-Technology and had a mixed up knowledge of their military.

The present incumbent is nothing but a badly educated argie and is unable to provide an intelligent comeback to any questions.
97 Captain Poppy (#) Feb 06th, 2013 - 12:35 pm Report abuse
Good observation ChrisR and I agree, definitely not that same. I guess when the troll taking over an identity burns out, they rest it a while then have a new troll assume the ID.
98 yankeeboy (#) Feb 06th, 2013 - 12:50 pm Report abuse
So then we are anxiously awaiting the return of British Kirchnerist, or O'Gara, oh gosh what are some of the other oldy but goodies?
I love Think's response, basically they are all white lies and everyone does that so why pick on Argentina?
Days go by with the Peso crashing yet nothing from El Thicko until it starts to go down then he is gleeful

but leaving out the reason it is going down, so let me fill you in..

CFK sent out gov't supporters to sell U$ to keep it under 8/1. The black mkt exchange is relatively small so a few U$100K can make a huge difference if it is coordinated. Too bad it will only be a short term dip because you can't fight the mkt forever.

Union are demanding at least a 35% wage increase in 2013 not the 16% CFK wanted initially.

I think she will find it hard to buy support with a worthless peso.
99 Gordo1 (#) Feb 06th, 2013 - 04:13 pm Report abuse
I wish all the quality press in the UK would start a campaign similar to this one.
100 Think (#) Feb 06th, 2013 - 05:09 pm Report abuse
(93) Wryter47 (#)

Finally...... somebody in here with some knowledge about “Tango Bonds”......

I jus want to add that many Italian private investors have successfully sued their Italian Banks for offering as “Safe” a product that was simply “To Good to be True”......

Regarding the bonds for Italian pensioners: I think the idea of caveat emptor is important to remember here. The bonds were offering 20 percent yields, which should have alerted someone to their fragility. Additionally, Italy took the bonds originally for income, and when they started to tank, they broke them up into $1000 bits and handed them over to the retirement system, thus assuring that the government wouldn't lose the money -- only the retirees. This is a tradegy and something that has been barely reported but needs to be said. To me it's a case of “a pox on both your houses” -- Argentina for creating the bonds and the Italians for buying them. Shame abounds.
101 simona_69 (#) Feb 06th, 2013 - 05:25 pm Report abuse
@ 92 troy tempest
who are you? NOTHING
102 Captain Poppy (#) Feb 06th, 2013 - 06:56 pm Report abuse
Troy, here we go again with “teams” and “names and addresses”. Now who do you suppose that could be? lol. I thought they lobotomized her.
103 yankeeboy (#) Feb 06th, 2013 - 07:33 pm Report abuse
102. Nah, if she was lobotomized she wouldn't be nearly as angry.
104 yasu (#) Feb 06th, 2013 - 09:22 pm Report abuse
100 think
Your observation is good. This world is full of financial criminals and terrorists, mainly centered in the US, the UK, and the EU, especially Germany (where Merkel, the prostitute numero una trying to hide and assist Deuche Bank for the its criminal speculation and losses).
105 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 03:42 am Report abuse
@100 think


Finally...... somebody in here with some knowledge about “Tango Bonds”......

I jus want to add that many Italian private investors have successfully sued their Italian Banks for offering as “Safe” a product that was simply “To Good to be True”......”

Think, is “Wryter47” from nowhere, another imaginary 'Think Persona'?

Is “Dame Dover” off tonight?

Your childish argument that the Italian pensioners got what they deserved for buying the bonds does not hold up.
Argentina is just as guilty of being criminally unethical for not paying the money back at 20% as bonds promising a yield at 5% - you still stole from them.
106 yankeeboy (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 02:03 pm Report abuse
It is funny how Argentina wants to blame the victims when they are the aggressors but play the victim when they are at fault.

Is everyone bi-polar and delusional in that country?

Bare shelves, HUGE WAGE Protests just about to start, Soy and Corn withering in the fields, Rg dingbats running around the world making fools of themselves..where will it end
most likely
Devaluation, Hyperinflation and then a Generational Depression
107 Captain Poppy (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 04:23 pm Report abuse
Yankee....why she is still allowed to run office or even breath is beyond me.
108 DJ56 (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 04:49 pm Report abuse
Interesting article - seems lying and cheating are an essential part of the national character.
109 yasu (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 05:35 pm Report abuse
There are many Argentinians who are really heros such as Che, selfless, idealistic revolutionary, who built socialist Cuba, Mercedes Sosa, revolutionary communist singer famous all over the world, and many others, however, unfortunately, there are so many crooks such as Menen or crook pupulists such as Evita, CFK. Thanks to those crooks and crook populists, Argentinian is a country which is never stable. When I meet so called good Argentinian friends, I always wonder whether they remain really good frients, or whether they become wolves, because most of them turned out be wolves. I am talking about Argentinians in Grande Buenos Aires.
110 ChrisR (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 08:41 pm Report abuse
109 yasu

“There are many Argentinians who are really heros such as Che, selfless, idealistic revolutionary, who built socialist Cuba,”

Ha, ha, ha.

AND I thought you were intelligent apart from the fact you love the fucking commies.

'Che' was the son of privilege and qualified as a doctor. Instead of helping the manifest poor he had (via a circuitous route and a motorcycle trip) to ‘make a difference’ by joining the revolution in Cuba and becoming second-in-command.

Despite many attempts at fitting in and helping run the country he failed. Castro realised he had made a mistake and to get him out of the way sent him to the UN. He managed to do a lot of anti-USA rants but still appeared on television. Round the world next and all the failed states N. Korea, etc. until he realised that the Soviet Union had forgotten Marx. Of course they had: all commies and fascists exist in government to line their own pockets.

And then he made his fatal error and fell into the hands of Castro: he sent a ‘farewell’ letter saying he would not return but devote his life to ‘revolution throughout the world’ when he was fomenting insurrection in the Congo.

Well, that didn’t go well and the Congo almost managed to kill him but he escaped.

Changing his appearance (brave man you know) he went to Bolivia and using the name Adolfo Mena González (good Nazi name that) and posing as a Uruguayo (he should be shot for that alone) he ponced around Bolivia until he met his nemesis, the US Special Forces advising the Bolivian military.

The rest they say is history. Captured he was executed on the direct orders of the Bolivian President.

All his life he had been unable to fit in with others which resulted in him being rejected by everyone he tried to help when they found him out. Even Fidel had to rescue him several times and keep changing his responsibilities to give him a new start.

Good riddance to crap.
111 Captain Poppy (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 08:52 pm Report abuse
Che is not considered a hero why the working Argentine's. ......unless they are socialists and I have yet to meet a middle class socialists in ARgentina.

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