Thursday, February 7th 2013 - 09:02 UTC

Europe Pro-dialogue groups side with Argentina; call for Falklands’ sovereignty discussions

European personalities from politics, culture and academia meeting in London for a two-day event expressed their support for Argentina’s claim over the Falklands/Malvinas Islands and signed a declaration calling on the UK to resume discussions for a peaceful and definitive solution to the ongoing dispute.

Richard Gott, is a former Latinamerican affairs correspondent for The Guardian and heads the Group’s UK Chapter

Representatives of the 18 European Pro-Dialogue Group calls for dialogue

Headed by Foreign minister Hector Timerman and ambassador Alicia Castro, the event at the Argentine embassy took off on Wednesday with the attendance of 42 members from the so-called 18 European Groups Pro Dialogue in the Malvinas Question.

The spirit of the meeting clearly oriented towards the Argentine position nevertheless acknowledged that Argentina and UK are both members of the UN, democracies, with a long tradition of friendship and cooperation, plus the fact that “they now coincide as members of the UN Security Council”

The day started with a draft presentation of the declaration which was read by British writer Richard Gott, a former Latinamerican affairs correspondent for The Guardian and who heads the Group’s UK Chapter.

The document recalls that the Falklands/Malvinas controversy dates back to 1833 when “Great Britain usurped the Islands from Argentina” and later evolved with the UN 1965 resolution in which by an overwhelming vote it was decided that “both countries should find a peaceful solution” to the dispute.

Further on the draft states that the Malvinas Islands are seen by Argentina and the Latinamerican region as a ‘colonial enclave’ besides the fact that from 1965 until 1982, --when the Argentine military invasion--, there were sovereignty negotiations between London and Buenos Aires, including the possible transfer of the Malvinas Islands and a possible joint administration.

Likewise the declaration argues that Latinamerica is a zone of peace and the British military escalade is “a matter of concern for all the countries in the region”.

Furthermore the UK continues with unilateral activities in the disputed area of the South Atlantic, exploration and exploitation of renewable and non renewable natural resources in clear contravention of UN resolutions. It adds that “this includes the growing militarization of the zone by the UK which has converted the Malvinas Islands in one of the most militarized areas of the planet”.

The document also points out that when Argentina lost the war in 1982 and the military government collapsed the democratic governments that followed have unanimously rejected war to recover the Islands. This was enshrined in the 1994 constitution saying that the sovereignty dispute must be resolved in a peaceful way respecting the interests of the inhabitants of the Islands.

And since the return of democracy in December 1983, Argentina is no longer a menace for the UK of the Malvinas Islands. In continental Argentina lives a great community of British descendents perfectly integrated and Argentina has reiterated its commitment to dialogue and the UN continues to call on both sides to resume negotiations. All indicates that the UK should re-establish the pre-1982 dialogue.

“But the British government refuses to dialogue”.

Finally the representatives of the 18 European Pro-Dialogue Group calls for dialogue and to show the world their commitment to peace and respect for International law.

The document is signed by lawyers, politicians, journalists and academics from Germany, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Denmark, Spain, France, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Ireland, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Czech Republic, UK, Romania and Sweden.

Among the distinguished personalities figure UK’s Jeremy Corbyn and Richard Gott; International Law jurist Sophie Thonon from France; Irish Senator Terry Leyden and Dutch Senator Theo Van Boven.
 

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1 Steve-33-uk (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 09:15 am Report abuse
I stopped reading the article after this bit...
'The document recalls that the Falklands/Malvinas controversy dates back to 1833 when “Great Britain usurped the Islands from Argentina”'

What a load of rubbish, they can't even get the facts right. I'm pretty sure the document would have been written out weeks ago in Argentina, then rubberstamped by morons like Richard Gott.
2 coldo (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 09:21 am Report abuse
Ok….

1 “But the British government refuses to dialogue”.

Not true. We agreed to meet to discuss bi lateral issues with you with the exception of the Falklands which we advised they Islands recognised legislative government needed to be present. Argentina refused to meet us which was clearly captured in news articles all over the globe.

2 Likewise the declaration argues that Latinamerica is a zone of peace and the British military escalade is “a matter of concern for all the countries in the region”.

We have a presence in our territory namely the Falklands simply because of the historic acts and on-going military posturing of Argentina. Let us not forget the comments made recently from a senior member in Argentina’s military stating the only thing stopping an invasion (apart form the fact the military effort in Argentina is either sinking or woefully behind the times) was the British presence on the islands. Further to this is brazils etc growth of their armed and naval presences not also a militarisation of the region?

3 with the attendance of 42 members from the so-called 18 European Groups Pro Dialogue in the Malvinas Question.

I respect their people’s views. They are entitled to them in a free and democratic country. But they are a minority and do not speak for most people as has been shown in many, many surveys, governmental talks etc. Please note that not a single senior politician, Leader of a country etc from the EU was present or has stated there agreement.

What will it take for Argintia and the rest of LA to realise that the Islands are not up for negotiation unless (and in the very unlikly event) the islanders ask for it to be. Instead I would ask these countiress and Argintina especialy to focus in on their country, their ecanomic issues and ongoing poverty / humanitarion issues at home. Sort that out first then come back to the table to ask for trilateral talks towards these self goverend overseas territories.

Self determination for the Falkl
3 Islander1 (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 09:26 am Report abuse
Out of half a billion people in Europe- twitman got 42 to come and sign?----Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4 Gordo1 (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 09:30 am Report abuse
Both Richard Gott and Jeremy Torbyn are the British equivalents of “cipayos” and are nothing more than attention seekers. Furthermore, if you stopped a man in the street and ask him who they are I reckon 999 out of 1,000 persons just would not know who they are.

So if the other 16 individuals gathered by the “trolly dolly” are well known and influential then Timerman's conference is a “loser”. It is pathetic the attempts these people use to gather support - it is a tragicomedy if ever there was one.

Is this the best they can do?
5 stick up your junta (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 09:37 am Report abuse
Furthermore, if you stopped a man in the street and ask him who they are I reckon 999 out of 1,000 persons just would not know who they are.

Not quite true, Corbyn won the 2001 Beard of the Year award
6 reality check (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 09:37 am Report abuse
Never heard of these, so called “High profile” European delegates. Certainly never heard of Gott, sounds like he writes the rubbish that 99%of us take one look at and consign to the waste paper bin. The other 1%, well they are entitled, unlike some people living on a peaceful Island in the South Atlantic, to their own opinion.

Must admit, it slightly hard to believe, that one of these groups, shed their invariable support for a minority group.

Where they off to next I wonder? down the road to the Ecuadorian Embassy perhaps?
7 Frank (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 09:37 am Report abuse
@1 'Argentina and UK are both ....... democracies,' thats where they lost me.......
8 Steve-33-uk (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 09:50 am Report abuse
I emailled Gott last week, listing a few points about self-determination, the loser never replied...

The email addresses listed below are openly available on the internet...

Richard Gott's email: rwgott@aol.com
Jeremy Corbyn's email: corbynj@parliament.uk
Terry Leyden email: terry.leyden@oireachtas.ie
9 Anglotino (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 09:52 am Report abuse
Interesting what wasn't said.

Didn't say the Islands were Argentine.

Didn't say the referendum shouldn't be held or ignored.

“All indicates that the UK should re-establish the pre-1982 dialogue.”
Oh I think that ship has sailed as part of an invasion force in 1982!

As for ”the most militarized areas of the planet”, these guys need to visit the North-South Korean border, Kashmir, the Indian-China border, Armenia-Azerbaijan border and the Taiwan Straits. Perhaps we should pass the hat around and help them visit those regions on a fact finding mission.
10 Redrow (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 09:55 am Report abuse
Would be interesting to know whether Corbyn as a Labour MP agrees that the Islanders don't exist and have no right to self-determination. And in supporting dialogue was he disappointed that Timerman then refused to attend the talks with Hague as offered?
11 stick up your junta (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 09:55 am Report abuse
Certainly never heard of Gott,

All you need to know about the traitor
When the spooks get a grip Richard Gott`s KGB links are another blow to a battered left
www.independent.co.uk/voices/when-the-spooks-get-a-grip-richard-gotts-kgb-links-are-another-blow-to-a-battered-left-says-neal-aschers-on-1387129.html
12 Frank (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 10:00 am Report abuse
Corbyn... labour member for the Democratic Peoples Republic of Islington... ho hum
13 Anbar (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 10:08 am Report abuse
/yawn
14 Pirate Love (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 10:15 am Report abuse
Of course they re going to side with argentina they are a selected audience ffs,
the decision to side with argentina was already made before arriving in UK.
i dare say The Falklands or The UK could find a selective audience in europe too if it wasnt so childish and irrelevent,
it means absolutely nothing they are not the UN and more importantly not the ICJ.

must try much harder argtards!

SELF-DETERMINATION.....will not be silenced.
15 Calaras (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 10:17 am Report abuse
I have just sent a rather annoyed letter to Mr Leyden. He is meant to be a representative on European affairs yet consorts with these twits . I wouldn't mind normally as our politicians here in Ireland are daft anyway but he should have been here for the very important late night votes on Irelands banking system. I am asking him if he understands the history of the Islands or merely listened to Mr Timerman. I also asked how he had gotten to the meeting, if he charged the Irish government for travel expenses then he was technically on official business and not personal. Seeing as his party is not in power I do not see how that could be.
16 Trunce (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 10:24 am Report abuse
“Likewise the declaration argues that Latinamerica is a zone of peace ”

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-21362538
17 GALlamosa (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 10:48 am Report abuse
If that is the best you can do Tinman, we have little to fear.
18 Clyde15 (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 10:57 am Report abuse
A crowd of sycophants were assembled with a previously agreed agenda. Anyone of us could have written a press release on this weeks ago with the inevitable“we are all in agreement with the conclusions of this meeting which was decided months ago ”
19 Pirate Love (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 11:12 am Report abuse
A wise man once said,

“people should be able to decide their own future”,
United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon B.A, M.P.A

that kinda makes Argentinas 42 fellow dictators and their opinions look somewhat insignificant.

SELF-DETERMINATION.....helping to give peace a chance!
20 Furry-Fat-Feck (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 11:13 am Report abuse
Where was Morrissey? What about George Galloway, he can't be a Friday prayers it's only Thursday?
21 Orbit (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 11:13 am Report abuse
------ News Flash ------

“Conference Shock: People paid to deliver pre-determined outcome, deliver pre-determined outcome”.

Today, in a staggering display of poor judgement, 2 vaguely known and 40 unknown people surrendered time and dignity to a limp propaganda campaign organised by the Argentine government.

The botched attempt at gathering worldwide support failed at the first hurdle, when it emerged that all attending came only for the free lunch, and didn't realise they would be paid in pesos for capitulating on their right to be taken seriously.

Bitterness turned to action, as one of the hard-to-recognise eco-wattage luminaries demonstrated rigid moral fibre, and asked for seconds of pudding.

Proceedings continued in a tense stand-off between Mr Timerman and the group, until Mr Timerman started arguing with a hat stand shouting “wibble wibble and thrice wibble to you my liege!!!”

The delegates left cautiously at this point, hugging each other for safety, with heads hanging somewhere near the floor in shame, whilst Mr Timerman and Ms Castro delivered the pre-written press release heralding harmony and pre-determined triumph.

“It wasn't quite what we expected. On many levels”, quoted one of the participants on condition of continuing to be an anonymous non-descript.

------ Ends ------
22 CaptainSilver (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 11:17 am Report abuse
“Among the distinguished personalities figure UK’s Jeremy Corbyn and Richard Gott; International Law jurist Sophie Thonon from France; Irish Senator Terry Leyden and Dutch Senator Theo Van Boven. ” - as well as 13 passers by they gathered from the street outside with the promise of a free lunch.

Go back to Mordor Gollum! You have the diplomatic skills of a squid.
23 Lord Ton (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 11:19 am Report abuse
Who are they ??? Nobody seems to be giving any names!
24 Martin Woodhead (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 11:19 am Report abuse
Richard gott is a traitor and a former assett of the KGB
All you need to know did argentina pay him in dollars or 30 pieces of silver?
25 Pirate Love (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 11:20 am Report abuse
lol nice one, wibble :)
26 reality check (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 11:39 am Report abuse
Nah, they promised him a seat on the Central Committee of the newly founded state of the Argentine Socialistia Rupublica of Los Malvinas. With a special portfolio to develope and oversee their first five year plan.
27 agent999 (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 11:43 am Report abuse
There is no such recognised group/institution called either the “European Pro-Dialogue Group” or the “18 European Groups Pro Dialogue”, so anything signed on behalf of them is meaningless.

The meeting was a total waste of time and declaration is a worthless piece of toilet paper.
28 RedBaron (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 11:46 am Report abuse
Anybody have a list of the members of this 'band of thieves'?
Theo Van Boven is a dickhead of the first order but curious to know who the other idiots are by name.
29 trenchtoast (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 12:01 pm Report abuse
@28
most of them are here on the site of the Argentine Ministery of Propaganda

www.telam.com.ar/notas/201302/6975-timerman-se-reunio-con-referentes-sociales-de-europa-que-apoyan-el-dialogo-por-la-causa-malvinas.html
30 reality check (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 12:06 pm Report abuse
Isn't this guy suppose to be the darling of the human rights brigade? What the hell is he doing endorsing Argentinas position, that the Islanders do not posses those same rights!
31 Conqueror (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 12:15 pm Report abuse
@1-25 I'm really surprised and disappointed at the comments on here. For instance, Richard Gott is a moderately well-known super-wanker. He made his name some years back by writing an article suggesting that Britain could no longer afford to keep the Falkland Islands. Being a Guardian writer, he couldn't waste time doing any research. As a result, he forgot to take account of 265 years of British settlement, a close call on whether Britain went to war with Spain over them, two ejections of argie trespassers, 255 British lives, the fact that the Islands are self-supporting and their defence only costs 0.3% of Britain's defence budget. Britain IS the UN-mandated Administering Authority. Charged with guiding the country in good governance and to independence. When the Islanders wish. There is NO mandate for the Islands to be handed over to some third-rate third world colonialist non-democratic state with pretensions.
32 Shed-time (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 12:19 pm Report abuse
@31 he's just some poor journalist who previously worked for the KGB and is desperate for work and some kind of legacy. If anything it doesn't say much about the standard of grauniad journalism.

Did they just copypasta the usual statement?
33 GFace (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 12:22 pm Report abuse
Was Rick from The Young Ones there?

@9. Don't be so sure. I'm sure that the Mutual Validation Society statement somewhere says the the Czechs, Poles, Danes and Belgians don't have a right to selfdetermination. By the end of the meetings they'd probably sign anything just to get Hector and Alicia to shut up and let them go home.

@30. No doubt he distinguishes between big-P People's rights and the little-p people's right to have their necks stepped on in the name of the big-P People. That's how the game is played :-/
34 agent999 (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 12:22 pm Report abuse
The whole lot of the would sign anything for a free lunch and a bit of publicity !

The only thing recognisable about any of them is the country they are each supposed to represent.
35 Baxter (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 12:26 pm Report abuse
Richard Gott worked for The Guardian . What more can one say .It is like asking the editor of the Daily Worker , while it existed and communist , to write an objective article on the aristocracy ! I presume that democracy is all about freedom of speech but does that include mouthing nonsense .
36 Idlehands (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 12:36 pm Report abuse
Is Gott now a group? I know he's a bit of a porker but he still only counts as one person....or was he there to represent the KGB?
37 agent999 (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 12:40 pm Report abuse
The whole lot of the would sign anything for a free lunch and a bit of publicity !

The only thing recognisable about any of them is the country they are each supposed to represent.
38 txiki (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 12:45 pm Report abuse
Well, it must also be pointed out that among the list of “europeans” that gathered to meet with Timerman, several of them are actually Argentine. Victoria Torres of Cologne University, Augustin Blanco Bazan who is listed as being from the UK delegation but is an Argentine who works in the International Maritime Organisation based in London, Dr Francisco Panizza - an Argentine lecturer based in the LSE, Mónica González, an Argentine who now lives in Spain and is a town councillor; Lucrecia Escudero - an argentine who is currently works at Lille University; Barbara Moreels - or should I say Barbara Moreels de Ortiz? I suppose they have had such trouble in finding people to be in the delegation, they had to pack it with Argentine nationals and pass them off as “Europeans”. Well, I guess in a way they are, as most Argentines are of European descent.
39 reality check (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 12:47 pm Report abuse
But the whole point is they are not representing their countries, they are representing their own opinions, which, thank god, the more sensible amongst us disagree with.

The Argentines, suprise, suprise represent them as speaking on behalf of their countries, which is clearly not the case.
40 Boovis (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 12:58 pm Report abuse
”El resto del grupo está conformado por Guillermo Posadas (Polonia), Agustín Ceruti y Filipe Domingues (Portugal), Razvan Victor Pantelimón (Rumania), Margarita Pulido y Eduardo Grutzky (Suecia) y Agustín Blanco Bazán y Francisco Panizza (Reino Unido).“
Erm, what? Most of these have hispanic names! ”Guillermo Posadas”?! My, my, how Polish!!!
41 reality check (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 01:01 pm Report abuse
Why would anyone want to negotiate with someone you would think twice about buying a second hand car from!
42 txiki (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 01:12 pm Report abuse
Agustín Blanco Bazán of UK
www.iflos.org/en/summer-academy/faculty/bio-blanco-bazan.aspx

Francisco Panizza of UK
www2.lse.ac.uk/government/whosWho/profiles/fepanizza@lseacuk/Home.aspx

Monica Gonzales of Spain
www.ayto-alcaladehenares.es/portalAlcala/RecursosWeb/DOCUMENTOS/1/0_3725_1.pdf

Lucrecia Escudero of France
unr.edu.ar/noticia/2682/lucrecia-escudero-y-el-poder-de-la-palabra

That's only 5 minutes of googling.
43 Rufus (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 01:14 pm Report abuse
Agustín Blanco Bazán is, I believe, an Argentine citizen (see here www.iflos.org/en/summer-academy/faculty/bio-blanco-bazan.aspx)

Doesn't help your cause when you can be caught out by someone using google...
44 Simon68 (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 01:18 pm Report abuse
Apart from a few Brits, a French lawyer and a cople of Swedes, the majority of the famous 42 seem to be ex-patriate Argentines!!!!!!

It seems that bottom of barrel scraping is Alicia's forte!!!!!
45 andy65 (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 01:23 pm Report abuse
Love to Know how much this as cost the Argentine tax payer with fligts accommodation etc
46 GeoffWard2 (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 01:27 pm Report abuse
It would seem that Perfect Latin American Idiots inhabit the dusty corners of Europe as well as The Americas!

Corbyn, Gott et al of the ‘UK Chapter’ of the ‘European Groups Pro-Dialogue in the Malvinas Question’ (God, how retro!) should read the book that best describes them:

‘Guide to the Perfect Latin American Idiot’ by Mendoza Plinio Apuleto, Carlos Montaner and Mario Vargas Llosa.

The book doesn't portray Latin America as a “victim” of the US or the Old World; these three authors challenge intelligently the populist ideologies and myths of the Left (and the Right) that have done so much damage over all the Spanish speaking countries south of the USA.

Having met many “Perfect Latin American Idiots”, I understand why they are so enraged by this book;
the PLAIdiots are perfectly described and they don't look pretty.

The book gives a cruelly accurate insight into ‘Latin American issues’, exploding the behaviours and attitudes of the Marxist and nationalist-leaning ‘intellectuals’.
These writers shoot straight at their hearts, and they make no apologies.

With Bolivarian mystique seeping through so many South American governments, it is time the book was read or re-read by those who try to speak on behalf of the LatAms.
47 Richfe (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 01:30 pm Report abuse
@29 Thanks for the link.

What a spectacular fail... trying to pass off Argentines as Europeans. How stupid are these people. Surely they could have managed to find 42 European Anglophobes...no wait...it was Alicia Castro who was organising it...

I feel the sudden urge to do a full place of birth/political affiliations analysis of the list and email every journalist I've heard of...
48 reality check (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 01:33 pm Report abuse
So much for High Profile Europeans, if I was playing poker, I would call this a stacked deck!
49 GFace (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 02:07 pm Report abuse
@48. I wouldn't call a 52 2-of-clubs and a joker and an old maid a stacked deck ;-)
50 Orbit (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 02:20 pm Report abuse
I see from the linked in “also viewed” pages that there's quite a few of us looking these people up.

@47 - go for it - The Sun might want to put another advertisement in the Arg press.
51 Shed-time (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 02:27 pm Report abuse
So, in summary, the representatives from countries all over Europe are simply Argentines, and some ex-KGB hack.

Does shylock ever stop with his lies?
52 MrFlagpole (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 02:27 pm Report abuse
Pro-dialogue groups side with Argentina shocker.

If you want them come and get them. otherwise fuck off.
53 Orbit (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 02:29 pm Report abuse
@51 - Looks like it. This is political GOLD - anyone know how to contact Jan ?
54 txiki (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 02:35 pm Report abuse
As soon as I noticed this when I saw the webpage, I tweeted an Argentine journo if they were aware of this, and after asking if I meant the Argentine delegation that came with Timerman. I pointed out that no, I meant the group of 42 - not heard anything since...... mind you she was on Newsnight spouting off with the usual propaganda a year ago.
55 Shed-time (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 02:35 pm Report abuse
According to wikipoodeer....

“[Jeremy] Corbyn is an MP sponsored by the UNISON trade union, and is a committed anti-fascist having spoken at the Unite Against Fascism and Barking and Dagenham TUC anti British National Party rally in December 2001 [6] and also speaking at the organisations annual conference in 2007 attacking the record of the media and calling for a No Platform of the BNP”

So what is an ardent anti-fascist doing supporting a Peronist-Hitlerist government that behaves in a fascist, corporatist and authoritarian manner? Seriously, I wonder what sizable thing they have on him to make basically him go against all the 'values' he professes to have.

Is he aware that the Front for Victory use the rhetoric of ethnic cleansing and expansionism?

Lordy lord.
56 Britworker (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 02:47 pm Report abuse
Who are these people, what was the point if the exercise. I'm not sure what you can read into the opinions of a hand picked audience with an anti-UK agenda, what would you expect them to say?
Absolutely zero reaction from the UK government and nothing achieved.
57 Zool (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 02:56 pm Report abuse
“European personalities from politics, culture and academia”

Oh this is hysterical, Argentina's European fan club turns out to be 95% Argentines & a few loonies & even the groups they are in have been fabricated. I'm pissing myself, poor timerman & friends are really scraping the bottom of the propaganda barrel these days.
58 Shed-time (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 02:57 pm Report abuse
According to Telam they're well known people representing 18 different groups from around Europe.

a) I previously didn't know any of them.
b) they don't seem to be representing any groups.
c) excluding the clearly argentine stooges, if these left-wing 'representatives' from the UK are 'new labour', this proves my point about this new paradigm in socialism actually being thinly-veiled fascism.

One of them is sponsored by UNISON, of all things. Do the people paying money into this union know that the money is being used to support a pro-argentine view on ethnic cleansing of the islands.

He's also involved in Amnesty International, which is enough to make me stop any direct debits.Those people should be ashamed of supporting pro-ethnic cleansing Front for Victory, and should know better.

The UK gov will quite rightly say absolutely nothing.
59 Raul (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 03:23 pm Report abuse
World public opinion and can not be fooled.

Bet UK colonialism and violence, and does not meet international law. Argentina commitment to dialogue (UN, OAS, CELAC, UNASUR, MERCOSUR) and international law.

As time passes and you get to know better the origin of the conflict, the cause Malvinas sum increasingly sympathies and accessions for Argentina. Even within the domestic public opinion in the UK. Just look at any news report that specializes in issues of racism, colonialism and imperialism in the 21st century.
The specificity of the Malvinas is that the United Kingdom occupied the islands by force in 1833, expelled the original population and did not allow their return, thus violating the territorial integrity of Argentina. Therefore, the possibility remains of the principle of self-determination, as its exercise by the islanders, cause the “disruption of the national unity and territorial integrity” of Argentina. Backs this Resolution 1514 (XV) “Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples” in the sixth paragraph states that “Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.

Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner is right ”are still a crude colonial power in decline”.

Evidenced by the fact that the committee considers UN decolonization to the Falkland Islands as a colony. Of the 16 cases of colonialism in the world, 10 are for the UK they are: Anguilla, Bermuda, Gibraltar, the Falkland Islands, Cayman Islands, Turks and Caicos Islands, Monserrat Island, Pitcairn Island and St. Helena Island.
Just look at any web page concerning the decolonization committee of United Nations refers to are a colony.

View Links

Voices for a bilateral negotiation

www.pagina12.com.ar/diario/elpais/1-213418-2013-02-07.html

www.pagina12.com.ar/diario/elpais/1-211116-2013-01-03.html
60 Shed-time (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 03:27 pm Report abuse
@59 Raul, 'world public opinion' isn't synonymous with 'a bunch of Argentines pretending to represent places in Europe and a pro-USSR journalist desperate for a meal'. Your own representative was asked to join in talks with the FIG and FCO but he refused because of the conditions that he wanted to impose over the meeting.

That makes you angry and bitter, we can see it. We can see your hands getting all sweaty. You don't like the lies that come out of your government, because you know they lie to you. So just admit it, they lie to you, right?

This makes you sad, right?
61 Rufus (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 03:33 pm Report abuse
@58 Shed

I'd heard of Corbyn back from my days of chasing after the loony left set
(back when I was in Uni the Tory hacks had more money to buy beer but the Labour hacks had better looking women, I'd joined both until they both found out and threw me out. The joys of being young...)

He used to (and probably still does) write a column for the Morning Star (formerly the Daily Worker - the tabloid of the British Communist Party). He still seems to be keeping the red flag flying, and comrade Hugo seems to be his current best pal.
62 screenname (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 03:36 pm Report abuse
@59 Raul 'World public opinion and can not be fooled.'

I don't know how you fool the opinion of the world. For a start, unless you are in some sort of brainbashed nazi state, people tens to have varied opinions. For another thing people should have their own opinions, even if they are foolish.

If you really mean that the facts cannot be hidden from the world than good, that's you buggered then.
63 lukophile (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 03:40 pm Report abuse
Queen Evita II making a right twit of herself and her court jester!!!
64 Anbar (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 03:51 pm Report abuse
“”“”“The document also points out that when Argentina lost the war in 1982 and the military government collapsed the democratic governments that followed have unanimously rejected war to recover the Islands. This was enshrined in the 1994 constitution saying that the sovereignty dispute must be resolved in a peaceful way respecting the interests of the inhabitants of the Islands.”“””

Would any of our Argentinian friends explain how their government intends to respect the interests of the inhabitants of the island when they say they wont talk to them and they have no right to self-determination?

Its pretty stupendous contradiction you see....

...like frikkin colossal ...
65 Brit Bob (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 03:51 pm Report abuse
@59 Raul

You have become deluded by Argentine propaganda. The same propaganda that INDEC puts out when it states that Argentine inflation is running at 10.8%. The same lies that have Argentina in 102nd place in the World's Transparency Index. 102nd place - most people can't even name 102 countries:
cpi.transparency.org/

Since Britain had claimed the Falklands in 1765 and Vernet had permission from Britain to be on the Falklands for business purposes when he was made Argentine governor - this was an illegal act. Although the British asked the Argentine garrison to leave the majority of settlers stayed under the British flag. Of the 5 that returned to Argentina - they had only been on the islands a few weeks. Then in 1850 Argentina signed the 'Convention of Settlement' peace treaty with Britain. The purpose of the treaty was to restore friendship and to settle ANY outstanding differences. It did. Argentina didn't make another sovereignty claim until 1941 - under international law sovereignty claims are considered defunct if there is a gap of 50 years or more between claims. 1849 - 1941.

I'll leave you with the words of the Secretary General of the UN. When speaking to an Argentine newspaper about the forthcoming Falklands referendum Ban Ki-Moon said, quote: 'The impression is that people who are living under certain conditions should have access to certain level of capacities so that they can decide on their own future.'

So there you have it. Argentina has no legal nor moral claim just hot air used to detract the gullible away from political and economic ineptness back home.

www.falklandshistory.org/

UN Decolonisation Committee - amongst other members, Russia, China (ha never stolen any lands), Venezuela - Chavez, Cuba - socialist republic - ha!, Syria and Iran - both nice places to spend your holidays?
66 Anbar (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 03:59 pm Report abuse
“”“Never heard of these, so called “High profile” European delegates. Certainly never heard of Gott,”“”

his main claim to fame, other than being a very useless KGB-paid 'spy', is that he once spent 3-4 hours with Che Guevara....

other than that he's a nobody, but probably the highest profile there.

says it all really. ;-0
67 Steve-33-uk (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 04:03 pm Report abuse
'Timerman on possible meeting with kelpers: “Never say never”'
www.clarin.com/politica/Timerman-posible-reunion-kelpers-digo_0_861513887.html

'Port Stanley – Capital of the Falkland Islands'
blogs.vancouversun.com/2013/02/06/port-stanley-capital-of-the-falkland-islands/

'Q&A: Falkland islanders referendum'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21350571

'British position on Malvinas “smells like oil,” said Argentine Foreign Minister'
noticias.terra.com.ar/politica/posicion-britanica-sobre-malvinas-huele-a-petroleo-dice-canciller-argentino,de382f5e815bc310VgnCLD2000000dc6eb0aRCRD.html

'The “diplomacy of anger” is good for the Falklands'
www.clarin.com/opinion/diplomacia-bronca-sirve-Malvinas_0_861513925.html

'In the Falklands, the country has the greatest opportunity of the last 20 years'
www.clarin.com/politica/Malvinas-mayor-oportunidad-ultimos-anos_0_861513891.html

'“The islanders being”, the toast that was a response to the Chancellor'
www.clarin.com/politica/islenos-existimos-brindis-respuesta-canciller_0_861513889.html

'An episode actidud with echoes of Plane'
www.clarin.com/politica/actidud-ecos-episodio-avion_0_861513888.html
68 Shed-time (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 04:08 pm Report abuse
“The document also points out that when Argentina lost the war in 1982 and the military government collapsed the democratic governments that followed have unanimously rejected war to recover the Islands.”

Why are they handing out war medals for the war then? and still celebrating the war?

.... do the endless lies never stop?
69 DJ56 (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 04:11 pm Report abuse
Completely meaningless: a self selected group of left leaning worthies think there should be negotiations.

About the only one I have heard of is Corbyn. Reputedly the most left wing Labour MP, he is a a supporter of an united Ireland, a past chair of CND etc etc etc. Sadly predictable that he would jump on any anti-UK bandwagon.
70 Shed-time (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 04:14 pm Report abuse
@69... the power of self-hatred.
71 GeoffWard2 (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 04:31 pm Report abuse
@59 Raul 'World public opinion and can not be fooled.'

Raul, please read my post at #46.

I think you will find that the world-wide publication of this refutation of the absurdities found in South American political thought has helped ....

You are right, world opinion is not fooled, however hard Sr. Timerman tries.
72 Shed-time (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 04:47 pm Report abuse
@71 'World public opinion and can not be fooled.'

Yes, and their opinion is that you're a bunch of liars.
73 ChrisR (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 05:28 pm Report abuse
Obviously a resounding success for Tmidman and Castor Oil, of sorry, the Trolley Dollie.
74 golfcronie (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 05:35 pm Report abuse
Raul has admitted that the Falklands are British, and I quote his words. “ When you go to war and win, I think Brits of all people would agree, any territorial gains stand” Thanks RAUL you are a star. By your remarks you accept that the FALKLANDS are BRITISH.
75 screenname (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 05:41 pm Report abuse
I can't really get my head round this so can anyone explain what would happen.

If the UK even vaguely ever looked like giving into Argentina, the Falklanders would hold a referendum and declare independence.

Where exactly does that leave Argentina's claim to only using peaceful means? Are they going to invade, or lay seige and starve the Islanders out? I don't see how they can ever take control of the Falkands without force UNLESS they start being nice.

Is claiming to be peaceful some sort of play on words? Because I do not think leaving the mines there is very peaceful (but they claim that is OK as they see it as Argentinian territory), and attacking tourist operators' property not peaceful (although they are not directly attacking the Falklanders).

So, as I asked, can anyone (including Argintinian imperialists) explain how they would expect it to play out??
76 Shed-time (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 05:49 pm Report abuse
@75 If you look at the parallels with China versus Taiwan or China vs India or China vs. South East Asia or China vs. Japan there isn't a lot that can happen beyond the invasion of the islands.
77 The Cestrian (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 05:53 pm Report abuse
www.buenosairesherald.com/article/123624/trouble-is-brewing

Not long now.
78 Anbar (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 05:54 pm Report abuse
“”So, as I asked, can anyone (including Argintinian imperialists) explain how they would expect it to play out??“””

they would make a lot of noise, stamp their feet, cry, wail, bitch & moan, make lots of passionate speeches, lie, cheat and re-write history and hope that somebody with some political or military muscle actually sorts it out for them... because they are incapable of doing so themselves.

..erm... pretty much what they are doing now in fact...

and most countries will completely ignore them (still)
79 slattzzz (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 06:03 pm Report abuse
Of the 16 cases of colonialism in the world, 10 are for the UK they are: Anguilla, Bermuda, Gibraltar, the Falkland Islands, Cayman Islands, Turks and Caicos Islands, Monserrat Island, Pitcairn Island and St. Helena Island.
So numbnuts if all these islands held a referendum same as the Falkland Islands would you care if they all voted to remain BOT's and therefore removed from the decolonization list, of course not you wouldn't give a shit. I wish they would and then you'd stop spouting off about said list, it's called self determination ie THEY DECIDE, so get over it !!!!! Why don't you spout off about Dutch and French overseas territories?
80 Anbar (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 06:08 pm Report abuse
CFK will be in prison within 20 years, she can ask to share her cell with Timmerman and they can reminisce on “the good times” when it seemed possible that the Falklands would become part of their new colonial empire....

oh, hang on, that never happened!
81 slattzzz (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 06:10 pm Report abuse
@77 Wow that's heavy stuff and from The BA Herald NOT Clarin
82 Clyde15 (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 06:17 pm Report abuse
www.buenosairesherald.com/article/123641/puricelli-chilean-marines-xenophobic-chantings-unacceptable

Have a look at this one ! I thought that Chile and Argentina were great pals and the people loved each other !
83 Steve-33-uk (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 06:50 pm Report abuse
@75 screenname

The million dollar question...
If the Falkland Islands status was to change, why would the Falkland Islanders choose to be ruled by Argentina, instead of becoming an independent nation?

The RG posters in here can't answer it. Argentina brings nothing to the table. They know Independence would end all sovereignty debates.
84 Gordo1 (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 06:53 pm Report abuse
I was in an antique shop today which specialises in antique maps - in the famous Portobello Road in London. I was shown a French map from 1788 of the Falkland Islands - all details were in the French language and the islands were variously called the Middenland Islands, the Falkland Islands and les Isles Malouines. The place names were in English and French and there was no reference AT ALL to any Spanish connection. Apparently, Alicia Castro was in the shop several weeks ago and when she was shown the map she allegedly claimed it was a fake. Of course, the proprietor of the shop is an expert in the field and guarantees the veracity of the map.
85 Conqueror (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 07:14 pm Report abuse
@59 Crawled out from under your stone again, slug? I'll contribute to your education. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acquisition_of_sovereignty
Notice any possibility of acquisition by “inheritance”? So do tell us how argieland acquired any “right” to the Falkland Islands? Your “government” of crooks knows this. It's why it doesn't dare take the matter to the ICJ. It would be laughed out of Strasbourg. Just as your “foreign minister” is being laughed out of London. Thanks for proving that your “country” is full of tossers. And cowardly tossers at that.

You might also like to read this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis
Remember the 1982 Falklands War? Remember who was in possession of the Falkland Islands, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands when your cowards surrendered?

So get lost!
86 briton (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 07:22 pm Report abuse
Why are halve these people bloody brain dead,
How can you talk and give something to a complete bloody stranger just because he wants your land,
What a load of anti democratic boxxocks,

Boy,, if Hitler was alive today, he would own half the bloody world, and all because he thought he was entitled to it,

What has this so called modern peaceful appeasement world turned into

Why not fxcking just give England to France. And be done with it,
Just tell to fxcky offy before someone get badly hurt.

.
87 Brit Bob (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 07:33 pm Report abuse
wwwworldcrunch.com/rss/world-affairs/argentina-president-cristina-kirchner-argentina-imf-twitter-rant/c1s1o848/

Cristina's IMF rant.
88 captain silver (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 07:34 pm Report abuse
@86
bloody rubbish english people!
89 Steve-33-uk (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 07:39 pm Report abuse
84 Gordo1
Great story, I love it.
That women is so stupid she should be in the RG Govt, she would fit right in.
90 ChrisR (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 07:42 pm Report abuse
Putridjelli in the shit again: Chilean military chanting “Argentines I will kill, Bolivians I will shoot, Peruvians I will cut their throats,”

Bit much on the Peruvians I thought, otherwise spot on.

I mean WHO cares about the Shit Heads and the Coca Heads?

”To end, Puricelli said that the expressions coming form the Chilean marines were awkward as they “do not reflect nowadays good relationships and tights between South American nations.”

I always wondered what he wore under his trousers (pants for the USA): suits you sailor would be my guess!
91 briton (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 07:42 pm Report abuse
88 bloody rubbish Argentina people!

twit.
92 GeoffWard2 (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 07:52 pm Report abuse
Conqueror (#85)
'It's why it doesn't dare take the matter to the ICJ. It would be laughed out of Strasbourg.'

Conq., the ICJ is at The Hague, not Strasbourg.

(Muses) 'I think the name of its location is why Timerman has such 'insecurity' with the British Foreign Secretary.'
93 Philippe (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 08:21 pm Report abuse
As is well known Richard Gott was a KGB agent in Santiago during Salvador Allende's failed attempts to establish a Dictatorship of the Proletariat in Chile.
Some of comrade Gott's (codenamed RON) fifth columnist activities in Chile
are briefly described in:
Christopher Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin, THE SWORD AND THE SHIELD:
The Mitrokhin Archive and the Secret History of the KGB, NY, Basic Books, 1999, p. 427.

Philippe
94 redpoll (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 08:21 pm Report abuse
@15 Calaras
O yes the boyo from Roscommon alias Senator Terry Leyden (Fionna Fail) Did you get a reply from him? Was it in English or Irish? Perhaps a few awkward questions should be asked of him in the Dail or at least in the Irish press
In 1998 Mr Leyden was an official observer at the Bosnia Herzgovenenia elections. Perhaps Falklanders you should invite him to observe your referendum. If he turns down the invitation it will show him up for the charlatan he is. If he does come he might even learn a thing or two about the way democracy works in the Falkland Islands
95 golfcronie (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 08:48 pm Report abuse
RAUL you there?
96 ChrisR (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 08:48 pm Report abuse
The Cunt Gott did have his ten minutes of fame when he was in Bolivia at the time Che was executed:

“Several witnesses were called to confirm that it was Guevara, key amongst them British journalist Richard Gott, the only witness to have met Guevara when he was alive.” (Wikipedia)

Nice to be a marxist then.
97 golfcronie (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 08:49 pm Report abuse
RAUL own goal ( disallowed by match fixing )
98 RedBaron (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 08:55 pm Report abuse
Upon checking the two Belgian members of Tinman's European delegation, we find that Bart Vonck is a translator (particularly of the Spanish poet Lorca's work) and is a self-confessed green socialist. Barbara Moreels was born as Barbara Ortiz in Antwerp (and changed her name to Moreels in 2000 by deed poll). She is President of the Belgo Ibero Americana Association, based in Antwerp.
Neither of these two people hold any offical office of State or represent Belgium in any capacity and it is questionable whether they know anything about the true story of the Falklands. My guess is that they were offered a free jolly to London - all expenses paid out of CFKs slush fund.
99 redpoll (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 08:57 pm Report abuse
Gott in Himmel! He like Goebbels looks, nicht wahr?
100 Shed-time (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 08:59 pm Report abuse
You folks should read the comments under the timmershylock articles in La Nacion. He's basically getting abuse from all sides.

Forgive the translation, but one commenter quite rightly says of him “The man of little talent occupying high positions resembles small statues placed on large pedestals: insignificance is more evident.”
101 Steve-33-uk (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 09:07 pm Report abuse
'Argentina says British plans for Falklands has 'strong smell of oil'
The Argentine foreign minister has said that British plans for the Falkland Islands have a “strong smell of oil”.
Hector Timerman, who is on a week long trip to the UK, accused Britain of “not moving its posture by one iota” and “using the islanders to justify its own intransigence”.
“What I sense in the British position is a strong smell of oil,” Mr Timerman told Radio del Plata on Thursday.
Britain authorised oil prospecting around the Falkland Islands in 2010, with several British companies taking the rights.
One of these companies, Desire Petroleum, estimated that a potential 3.5 billion barrels of oil and nine trillion cubic feet of natural gas could lie within the Falklands' territorial waters, potentially worth at least £25 billion.
If the predictions are accurate, it would make the 8,000 residents of Falkland Islands significantly wealthier.
Mr Timerman believes it is Argentina, rather than the Falkland Islanders, that should benefit from this wealth.
Speaking on Wednesday, Mr Timerman said: “I think they are using the people living in the islands for political [purposes] and to have access to oil and natural resources which belong to the Argentine people.” He added: “The Falkland Islanders do not exist. What exists is British citizens who live in the Islas Malvinas.”
Mr Timerman turned down the opportunity for talks with his British counterpart William Hague on Monday, once he learnt two members of the Falkland Islands legislative assembly would be present.'
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/9856104/Argentina-says-British-plans-for-Falklands-has-strong-smell-of-oil.html
102 redpoll (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 09:23 pm Report abuse
Wow La Nacion and comments!!!!! Next to be taken over after Clarin if the press law gets through?
103 briton (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 09:39 pm Report abuse
Argentina should be broken up,

at least then the people might get a decent government.
104 The Cestrian (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 10:44 pm Report abuse
Castro looks like she is about to wet herself with excitement.
105 Faulconbridge (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 10:50 pm Report abuse
Surely the present situation is ideal; peaceful and definitive and the Argentine government can distract its citizens from real problems whenever they want.
106 Musky (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 11:39 pm Report abuse
So, a bunch of nobodies have sided with argentina, well who cares, the law and the UN charter rule, not opinions!
107 txiki (#) Feb 07th, 2013 - 11:42 pm Report abuse
@100 I spend many hours posting on la nación. Amazingly I tend to get more positive votes than negative. Look out for mr garrison with a timerman puppet!
108 Shed-time (#) Feb 08th, 2013 - 12:41 am Report abuse
“Britain says Timmerman's plans for Malvinas have a strong smell of 1940's fascism”
109 slattzzz (#) Feb 08th, 2013 - 02:38 am Report abuse
Britain says “rgenweener stop your moaning and get a life, and tinman you have a strong smell of wee”
110 reality check (#) Feb 08th, 2013 - 02:43 am Report abuse
I love the smell of oil in the morning, smells of freedom!
111 DanyBerger (#) Feb 08th, 2013 - 04:13 am Report abuse
Just lapidary no much to say...

Oh! wait a minute they could include me as Daniel Berger from Germany...
Ha ha ha ha

Time to save for a British Air no ways ticket...
112 Hepatia (#) Feb 08th, 2013 - 04:32 am Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/02/07/europe-pro-dialogue-groups-side-with-argentina-call-for-falklands-sovereignty-discussions#comment213909: The document calls for nothing more or less than that the government of the UK follow the resolutions of the UN. Why should it say more?

Plainly these European individuals understand better the national interests of the UK better than either you or the UK government do.
113 Terence Hill (#) Feb 08th, 2013 - 06:37 am Report abuse
59 Rau

Akehursts Modern Introduction to International Law
By Peter Malanczuk

...It is therefore not surprising that the General Assembly declared in 1970 that the modem prohibition against the acquisition of territory by conquest should not be construed as affecting titles to territory created 'prior to the Charter regime and valid under international law'...
114 reality check (#) Feb 08th, 2013 - 08:52 am Report abuse
112
What Europen individuals? have you not been reading the story?
90% of these are Argentinian ex-pats, they are not European, though they do not seem to mind being represented that way.

How do you expect anyone to trust anything they say, when it clearly comes from a group of people misrepresenting who they are for starters. What else are they misrepresenting? you do know people do not like to have their intelligence insulted.

Thet want talks, dialogue and so called compliance, well they can start by being bloody honest with the people they are talking to.
115 GALlamosa (#) Feb 08th, 2013 - 11:10 am Report abuse
So if they are pro dialogue wny do they support the side which refuses to talk. UN in June, HoC this week - they do not want to talk, they just need a constant hubbub for home consumption.
116 reality check (#) Feb 08th, 2013 - 01:07 pm Report abuse
I expect this is going to go down as a success with the Argentine public, he may even convince some of the poor deluded souls, that at some time in the near future, it is going to happen. He certainly seems to have convinced himself.
A deluded man telling a deluded people what thet want to hear, a million miles away from reality and getting further away, each time he opens his mouth.
117 ChrisR (#) Feb 08th, 2013 - 01:58 pm Report abuse
116 reality check

It was the same with the Junta in the war.

They were beating the Brits as far as the people knew, right up to when the first 'refugees' from having their arses kicked came ashore.

Then the shit hit the fan: history will repeat itself never fear.
118 Raul (#) Feb 08th, 2013 - 02:20 pm Report abuse
71 GeoffWard2
Apparently perfect American idiots inhabit dusty corners of Europe and the Americas!

As you intend to respond if you keep insulting all Argentine and Latin American.
God help you.

72 Hangar-time
Listen other bells though not like. They are all truths.

74 golfcronie
Why are you lying brazenly? You know that never express those views.

113 Terence Hill
See Doctrine Varela. The war does not give rights.

www.argentina-rree.com/6/6-048.htm

See also Carlos Saavedra Lamas.

es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Saavedra_Lamas
119 Philippe (#) Feb 08th, 2013 - 02:29 pm Report abuse
For Gott's sake who is going to subsidise now his subversive actiivities?
Either the 'Bolivarian' Embassy or the 'Malvinazi' Embassy?
This spymaster is going to have some real problems of pocket money!

Philippe
120 Karl101 (#) Feb 08th, 2013 - 04:34 pm Report abuse
Please support this page honouring all those who helped liberate the Falklands in 1982 and dedicated to keeping the islands liberated and free of Argentine colonialism.

www.facebook.com/HonourRestored
121 golfcronie (#) Feb 08th, 2013 - 04:35 pm Report abuse
RAUL
Please refer back to yor quote “ Went to war with the United Kingdom over the Falklands and lost.
Previously you wrote and I quote ” Went to war with Brazil and won ( Brazil lost Uruguay and most of Iguazu Falls)
Prove me a liar if you can
you posted the first quote but I pointed out you lost you repeated the rest but not the first quote
122 trenchtoast (#) Feb 08th, 2013 - 05:16 pm Report abuse
I don't like to be pedantic, but the Ministry of truth says there were 42 deviants attending this event and I count maybe 35 people in this historic photo. That includes Betts, Castro, Timerman, Filmus and Carmona.

www.elmensajerodiario.com.ar/fotografias/30510_Timerman_en_visita_oficial.jpg
123 golfcronie (#) Feb 08th, 2013 - 05:29 pm Report abuse
118 Raul
My sincere apologies . I have to admit that the “ quotes ” were not attributed to you but to Nostro the 8th.
Not difficult to apologise when one is wrong
124 GeoffWard2 (#) Feb 08th, 2013 - 06:44 pm Report abuse
Raul (#1118)
'71 GeoffWard2'
'Apparently perfect American idiots inhabit dusty corners of Europe and the Americas!
As you intend to respond if you keep insulting all Argentine and Latin American. God help you.'

Raul,
I think I understand what you are trying to say.

The authors of “Guide to the Perfect Latin American Idiot” are all Latin Americans.
Read it and understand.
You will understand it better as:
“Maual del Perefecto Idiota Latinoamericano”

There is much you can learn about the real Latin America and its political history.
You will not find these truths in your school books.
Geoff.
125 ChrisR (#) Feb 08th, 2013 - 09:28 pm Report abuse
@124 GeoffWard2

Should it have been “Manual del Perfecto Idiota Latinoamericano” perchance?

LOL's
126 lost1 (#) Feb 08th, 2013 - 10:06 pm Report abuse
Please support Falkland Islands Desire the Right - dedicated to Falkland Islands current affairs, keeping the islands free and poking fun at the lunacy of the Argentine government and their various claims and winding up their Internet trolls - www.facebook.com/Britain1592

Please support our other page - Falkland Islands Desire The Right - dedicated to Falkland Islands current affairs -

www.facebook.com/truthfk
127 Anglotino (#) Feb 08th, 2013 - 11:02 pm Report abuse
Lost1 you yourself have become one of those internet trolls you want to wind up.

Please stop posting these crappy links. Any intelligent person who wants to join these groups can do a search on Facebook.
128 HansNiesund (#) Feb 09th, 2013 - 12:02 am Report abuse
Now this is interesting. In the pamphlet produced for this conference on the propaganda site they have set up, it turns out that they are no longer making the claim that a civilian populations was expelled in 1833 :

“On 1 January 1833, the United Kingdom expelled the Argentine authorities, the military garrison, and their families, forbidding their return”

apoyoamalvinas.cancilleria.gob.ar/page/2

But of course, you read it here first.
129 Hepatia (#) Feb 09th, 2013 - 12:42 am Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/02/07/europe-pro-dialogue-groups-side-with-argentina-call-for-falklands-sovereignty-discussions#comment214908: Let us assume, for the purpose of argument, that what you say is true: What is your point?
130 HansNiesund (#) Feb 09th, 2013 - 01:21 am Report abuse
@129
There's no need to assume, for the purpose of argument, or for any other purpose. It's there in black and white on the cancelleria site, in Spanish and English.

And the point is, that's one lie of long-standing abandoned at last. I guess somebody must have realised, not before time, it couldn't be stood up in any serious forum if anybody serious contested it.

Plenty more to go, of course, but it's a positive evolution in a sorry mess of propaganda. And I am sure we can all look forward now to a correction being issued and apologies being made to those organisations, such as the UN, which may have been inadvertently and unfortunately misled by previous statements from Argentine governments.
131 Anglotino (#) Feb 09th, 2013 - 07:08 am Report abuse
@130 Hans

I just read the pamphlet and you're right. It clearly does NOT say any settlers were expelled.

So many of the lies in it are easily disproven. You have to wonder why they keep saying them. I feel sorry for the Argentineans. It's hard to imagine a government so blatantly lying to you ALL the time.
132 HansNiesund (#) Feb 09th, 2013 - 08:04 am Report abuse
@131

Somebody better tell Think,, and Raul, and indeed Hector Timerman himself of this change in the party line, for they have all only recently been singing from the old version of the hymn sheet.
133 Anglotino (#) Feb 09th, 2013 - 09:07 am Report abuse
LMAO someone in the Ministry of Propaganda and TruthSpeak will suddenly disappear me thinks.

He will invariably turn up counting penguins or worse weighing penguin shit in Antartica for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Colonial Expansionism.
134 Hepatia (#) Feb 09th, 2013 - 11:10 am Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/02/07/europe-pro-dialogue-groups-side-with-argentina-call-for-falklands-sovereignty-discussions#comment214927: I see nothing on that site or in any thing that would allow or excuse the invasion of any country by the UK.
135 DanyBerger (#) Feb 09th, 2013 - 12:12 pm Report abuse
Oh! poor Brits...

No carriers, no planes, no money, no economy, no jobs, no hope and now no Malvinas.

I really feel sorry for them.

Britain once a world power now reduced to another capital of the Middle East but without money.

Sad very sad indeed...
136 Clyde15 (#) Feb 09th, 2013 - 12:43 pm Report abuse
#135
Back on the same old treadmill Dany, round and round and round with the same old garbage. Same racist comments as some of your forebears - once a Nazi , always a Nazi.
However, you can't help it - it's in your genes.

Oh, you forgot the bit about kebabs and pyjamas.

Ask your own Muslim population in BA next time you pass the mosque Do you prefer the pyjamas or the full nightshirt - get your order in now as you will not want to be out of fashion.
137 HansNiesund (#) Feb 09th, 2013 - 03:07 pm Report abuse
@135

Of course you don't. That's because there was no invasion. And of course the site doesn't tell the whole story. But it's clear the story it is telling is different from the story that was being told before.

Why do you think that is?
138 green_hat (#) Feb 09th, 2013 - 08:49 pm Report abuse
islands or no islands
Argentina is anti-british
AFUERA DE MI PAI INGLESES ODIOSOS!
139 golfcronie (#) Feb 09th, 2013 - 09:48 pm Report abuse
@138
27 days to the FALKLANDS REFERENDUM
SELF DETERMINATION
BE AFRAID , BE VERY AFRAID
Don't see a problem just exercising OUR DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS
140 DanyBerger (#) Feb 09th, 2013 - 11:47 pm Report abuse
“Europe Pro-dialogue groups side with Argentina”

No much to say, Illegal Britain will have to comply with international law.
141 Hepatia (#) Feb 10th, 2013 - 12:47 am Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/02/07/europe-pro-dialogue-groups-side-with-argentina-call-for-falklands-sovereignty-discussions#comment215314: The referendum will not solve the UK's problem. The UK will be forced to return the islands to Argentina and pay that country reparations - as in the past. The referendum will not change this outcome. So, it is a sham!
142 Domingo (#) Feb 10th, 2013 - 07:20 am Report abuse
@59/118

The trouble with this event is that is a planned politically propaganda activity paid for by the Argentine government. It was a closed event & delegates were selected specifically for their bias & especially for their pro-Argentine political views on this issue. Comments on this news article have pointed out that the majority of delegates to the conference are Argentines or associated with Argentina; such obvious propaganda does not help the Argentine position because it is recognized as pure propaganda & also as demonstrably fundamentally dishonest & thus of no value

The facts are the outcome of a free & open debate with a demographically representative audience is far more effective in terms of debating & influencing opinion rather than a pre-arranged outcome and closed set of speakers with no witnesses ; that Argentina stooped to this low tolitarian tactic harms Argentina's credibility internationally. It was a foolish idea that backfired

The Saavedra Lamas Pact antiwar th&e Varela Doctrine are good examples of 1930s political thinking in accord with the aims of League of Nations; obviously in 2013 member states obligations under the UN treaty prevail over any other other treaty, as required by UN Charter Article 103

The Lamas Pact is a principally a latino-iberian pact and binds only signatories; it is not retroactive & does not affect the territorial status quo post bellum of its signatories or non-signatories before 1933. It's political purpose was to stabilize the region in respect of the political destabilization caused by the Peruvian-Bolivian Chaco War of 1932-35; it has no direct bearing on the question of the Falkland Islands

The British exercised their prior sovereignty agreed with the Spanish in 1833 & Argentina acquiesed by ratification of the Arana-Southern Treaty of 1850

Argentina's use of force to resolve its dispute in 1982 is a breach of this pact, & more importantly Articles 1, 2,25, 35 and 73 of the UN Treaty. Argentina lost
143 HansNiesund (#) Feb 10th, 2013 - 09:07 am Report abuse
@142

Argentina's disdain for its opponents, it appears, is matched only by its disdain for its supporters.
144 Clyde15 (#) Feb 10th, 2013 - 09:55 am Report abuse
#141
“ The UK will be forced to return the islands to Argentina and pay that country reparations - as in the past. ”

Who will force us ? Argentina? How will this manifest itself ?
145 Hepatia (#) Feb 10th, 2013 - 12:16 pm Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/02/07/europe-pro-dialogue-groups-side-with-argentina-call-for-falklands-sovereignty-discussions#comment215404: The situation will develop such that the UK will need to return Las Malvinas and pay reparations to Argentina. So, in a manner of speaking, the UK will force itself.
146 Anglotino (#) Feb 10th, 2013 - 12:18 pm Report abuse
Repeating this fantasy doesn't make it anymore real.

There are no islands to return..... so the rest is just crap.
147 Clyde15 (#) Feb 10th, 2013 - 12:29 pm Report abuse
#145
You did not answer my question at #144.
What in the way of reparations and how.
How can a hand picked “focus” group full of Argentinians be taken seriously as representing European opinion. We could have trawled around and filled a similar group of pro -Falkland supporters and that would have been just as one sided.
148 Hepatia (#) Feb 10th, 2013 - 02:52 pm Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/02/07/europe-pro-dialogue-groups-side-with-argentina-call-for-falklands-sovereignty-discussions#comment215429: The reparations will consist of a transfer of money and it will be implemented in the normal manner using the banking system.
149 reality check (#) Feb 10th, 2013 - 02:59 pm Report abuse
Hepatia.
Pack it in will you. Timerman does your comedy!
150 Domingo (#) Feb 10th, 2013 - 03:26 pm Report abuse
@142. Indeed. Erratum: Paraguayan-Bolivian war not Peruvian-Bolivian war /confederation

I wonder what the world borders would look like rolled-back to January 2nd 1833 compared to now in 2013?
151 GeoffWard2 (#) Feb 10th, 2013 - 04:16 pm Report abuse
#144, #147
I frequently ask this question about reparations.

Normally reparations are requested of the losing side.
Now, it seems, reparations are being requested from the winners!

There seems to be no recognition of the rule that 'when you lose, you pay'.
152 ChrisR (#) Feb 10th, 2013 - 06:36 pm Report abuse
151 GeoffWard2

Or as you say on the shooting filed (and reprised in Riddick):

You keep what you kill.

And reading TMBOA statement that she is busting the Brits balls and cannot centrate on anything else other than the Malvinas (sic) it looks as if she is contemplating another invasion.

With what I cannot imagine.

A quote from TMBOA: ”But Cristina says that “we’re always busting the UK’s balls* about discussing the Malvinas, so if Iran wants to talk to us, we can’t refuse”.
www.argentinaindependent.com/category/culture/thoughtsofaforeigner

Perhaps Iran are going to invade the Falklands because she can't.
153 briton (#) Feb 10th, 2013 - 07:01 pm Report abuse
The British government today,
Has publicly called argentina a liar,

And the islands will remain British for centuries.

Over to batman and robin .lol.
154 Clyde15 (#) Feb 10th, 2013 - 07:04 pm Report abuse
#148
YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED THE QUESTION. WHO WILL MAKE US DO IT !!!!!!!!!!!!
155 briton (#) Feb 10th, 2013 - 07:55 pm Report abuse
Apparently Argentina’s new dirty dozen,
1 Hepatia
2, Raul
3, pirate hunter,
4, malvino,
5, captain silver
6, DanyBerger
7, José Malvinero
8, Nostrolldamus
9, XAVIERV
10, hipolyte
11, ljb
12, Marcos Alejandro
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
And all lead by the secret master,
Thinking, we cant yet Think , of his name.
mmmm
.
156 Hepatia (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 02:47 am Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/02/07/europe-pro-dialogue-groups-side-with-argentina-call-for-falklands-sovereignty-discussions#comment215501: I think I answered that question when I said, “the UK will force itself” (en.mercopress.com/2013/02/07/europe-pro-dialogue-groups-side-with-argentina-call-for-falklands-sovereignty-discussions#comment215427).
157 Terence Hill (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 01:31 pm Report abuse
118 Raul

This is not the only one, but just of number of legal tenets could rely on.
So even accepting Argentines claim that Briton usurped the islands, they still hold the legal sovereignty.

General theory of law and state by Hans Kelsen : translated by Anders Wedberg. p. cm. Originally published: Cambridge : Harvard University Press, 1945

214 THE ELEMENTS OF THE STATE

....Taking possession through military force of the territory of another State against the latter's will is possible, however, without any military resistance on the part of the victim. Provided that a unilateral act of force performed by one State against another is not considered to be war in itself (war being, according to traditional opinion, “a contention between two or more States through their armed forces” and hence at least a bilateral action) annexation is not only possible in time of war, but also in time of peace. The decisive point is that annexation, that is, taking possession of another State's territory with the intention to acquire it, constitutes acquisition of this territory even without the consent of the State to which the territory previously belonged, if the possession is “firmly established.” It makes no difference whether the annexation takes place after an occupatio bellica or not.
158 ChrisR (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 02:50 pm Report abuse
155 briton

If you added I don't Think aka The Turnip In Chief aka The Biggest Liar On MP: (wait for it)

YOU COULD CALL THEM 'THE BAKERS' DOZEN'.

Bun fight anyone?
159 briton (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 05:50 pm Report abuse
nice one ha ha .
160 DanyBerger (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 06:03 am Report abuse
Back to the topic...

Europe groups side with Argentina and call for UK to sit a talk about a peaceful and civilised return of the Islands to Argentina as is legitimate owner.
161 txiki (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 10:30 am Report abuse
Yes

Groups led by Argentine ex pats side with Argentina - no big surprise there - just the need to keep the membership of these groups quiet.
162 DanyBerger (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 01:26 pm Report abuse
@txiki

Doesn't matter still European groups side with Argentina and not UK.
That's is reality...
163 Zool (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 02:00 pm Report abuse
@162, Fake Argentine groups pretending to be delegations from 18 European countries who were setup by Timerman & are made of Argentines working in Europe. The whole world knows he setup a fake conference with fake support & he got caught out.

Sorry Danny but it was just Propaganda from Argentina, No European country has given Argentina any kind support & no European Country attended his fake conference & no European country singed any statement which is why 'We the Undersigned' was suspiciously blank.

That is reality...
164 GeoffWard2 (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 07:33 pm Report abuse
As Daniel Day Lewis might have said to So-crates

'Wit' mi thumbs stuck in mi waiscot and speaking as t'Convener o t'Bahian Wild Stallion Chapter of t'Falkland's Status Quo Group,
all I have t'say is

“Party on, you Southern Irelands Dudes!”'
165 Anglotino (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 05:41 am Report abuse
Dany, please list the groups and their members.

I would be quite interested to see how European these groups are.

Bet you can't!
166 DanyBerger (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 06:54 am Report abuse
Despite Bwannabe denial Argentina still supported by European Groups.

Sorry but that is just the way it is

Here Bruce will you that with music
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOeKidp-iWo
167 Anglotino (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 10:43 am Report abuse
Didn't think you could!

Your reply is all we have come to expect from the trolls on here.
168 DanyBerger (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 11:50 am Report abuse
@ATino

You didn't like the song?
or what?
169 Raul (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 01:48 pm Report abuse
123 golfcronie

118 Raul
My sincerest apologies. I have to admit that the “quotes” were not attributed to you, but Nostro 8th.
It's not hard to apologize when you are wrong.

This apologized. I also make mistakes like any human being. It's good to talk or discuss different views without falling into insults or grievances.

Have a nice day

face1354@hotmail.com
170 GeoffWard2 (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 03:17 pm Report abuse
Raul #169 has an email address on his posting, please respect, and keep all invective to this Mercopress site rather than personal sites.

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