Timerman in London: a scam conference that almost worked
By Peter Pepper - Private conferences have long been used by pressure groups to get something they want onto the public agenda. The so-called Argentine-British Conferences were like this. They were an Argentine idea, and the so-called 'British' delegations were largely controlled by, and packed with, Falklands’ opponents in Britain. They achieved the nickname the Argentine Biased Conferences or the Anti-British Conferences. But they failed in their objective and faded away.
But that was nothing compared with the recent conference of delegations calling for 'dialogue' over the Falklands from 18 European countries. Dialogue is the Argentine euphemism for negotiating a handover of the Falklands. And the 18 delegations were confused by some, not for what they were, totally unrepresentative delegations chosen by Argentina to call for dialogue that came from 18 European countries, but as delegations from 18 countries that wanted dialogue – something completely different.
'We the Undersigned'
The conference was obviously made up of Argentine supporters and addressed by Argentine supporters. Without journalists present, no one outside knows what was said. But it was clearly preaching to the converted. At the press conference afterwards their final 'declaration' was duly distributed, but not the names of the 'undersigned' that had ascribed to it. Even a personal request by me to one of the organisers failed to get a list. Without these names it wasn't worth the paper it was written on.
But an Argentine news agency has published a clue. There were apparently 42 'delegates', which works out at just under three people per country. But only five were named: Richard Gott, the well-known left-winger, Guardian writer, and opponent of the Falklands, who helped organise the conference; Jeremy Corbyn MP, who has suggested that Britain should talk to the Argentines about the sovereignty dispute; Dutch Senator Theo Van Boven, who was decorated by Argentina in 2009 for his work over human rights abuses during the Dirty War in Argentina (presumably the human rights of Falkland Islanders are not included in this); Sophie Thonon, a French lawyer with a well-known interest in Latin-America and in human rights abuse trials; and the Irish Senator Terry Leyden, who was a member of the Fianna Fail government in 1982 that so irritated Margaret Thatcher. Another delegate attending is believed to have been Lucrecia Escudero Chauvel, an Argentine with an Italian passport who wrote a book about the Falklands War. The other delegates can safely be assumed to be people with very close associations with Argentina. It was probably an all-expenses-paid trip for them to London.
Pretext for a Visit
But there was more to it than that. This obviously biased conference was also the pretext for a high profile trip to London by Argentine Foreign Minister Hector Timerman, accompanied by Senator Daniel Filmus, Head of the Congressional Foreign Affairs Committee and Deputy Guillermo Carmona, Head of the Foreign Affairs Committee for the Chamber of Deputies. He is also Head of the Malvinas Observatory. With the Falklands referendum only a month away it was all a way of attacking the Islanders and British policy. Timerman wanted to see British Foreign Secretary William Hague to discuss Falklands’ sovereignty. But he would not do so when Hague made it clear that Timerman could only see him if the Falklands could be represented too. Timerman's aggressive responses to this were typical of him and the present Argentine administration.
But Timerman did get to see the British-Argentine All Party Parliamentary Group, where he is reported to have ranted away on the subject. He invited them to visit Argentina, and this invitation was accepted.
The high point was Timerman's press conference as the visit ended on February 6. On the platform with him were Argentine ambassador Alicia Castro, Daniel Filmus, Guillermo Carmona and Richard Gott, who received Timerman's special thanks.
The Argentine media were there but did not ask questions; they could probably see what it was all about. The British TV media were well represented. Their questions were particularly critical of Timerman refusal to meet with Falklands Islanders. Timerman explained that Falkland Islanders don't exist – only Britons living in the Malvinas. Timerman claimed that Argentina doesn't try to harm them, but wants to improve their lives with such things as flights to Buenos Aires. He claimed (obviously incorrectly) that young Islanders come to Buenos Aires for their holidays. Timmerman said that as Britons the Islanders should communicate through the British Government, just as Argentines did through the Argentine government. And there was the usual rigmarole of how the United Nations had decided that there were only two parties to the dispute. Another argument was that Britain had done business with Germany not long after WW2, so why shouldn't it discuss the dispute with a democratic Argentina 30 years after the war. The answer was obvious, Germany had been defeated and was no longer making claims over its former enemies; everyone could see this. Unfortunately no one pointed this out. There was a variation on this too; Timerman pointed out that Britain did discuss sovereignty with a murderous dictatorship before 1982, but won't now with a democratic Argentine government. It was as if the war had never happened. And Timerman droned on about all the UN resolutions calling for a peaceful settlement, but didn't mention that no country has to obey UN resolutions.
The conference lasted 45 minutes. At the end Timerman added a piece of his own that no one had brought up. He spoke about the Chagos Archipelago Islanders, who Britain removed from their Islands in the late 1960s to make way for an American airbase. Timerman said this was what Britain really thought about self-determination. Timerman clearly thought this was very wrong, as do many other people. In fact it was. One can only presume that he wants Britain to do something similar in the Falklands now.
Timerman clearly did not get everything his way at all. Journalists' questions were hostile, although his answers did allow him to put across Argentina's case. He didn't get much publicity in Britain either; although the Guardian (and Independent) did give him an interview that allowed him to publicise his boast that Argentina would get control over the Falklands within 20 years. But he did get publicity in Argentina, and that is important. With the present Argentine administration in domestic difficulties, the Falklands is, as always, a useful diversion. (PN)
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142 comments Feed
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Ha ha!
No name in the article?
By Peter Pepper ” Right at the top of the page!
19yrs and 363 days (+ leap year days) to go ;-)
Anyway back to the subject in hand, just another day and another failed Argentine stunt. All Tinman has managed to do is raise the importance of protecting the Falkland Island's by showing how aggressive and poorly behaved the Argentine government is. In that sense the trip is pretty good for the people of the Falkland Island's.
Come to the UK, insult the country and then demand negotiations and then what does he expect? He must know the UK is a country that is in every way considerably more powerful than Argentina and as such doesn't have to accept the usual Argentine bullying that Argentina systematically carries out on other SA countries.
So with that in mind, its clear Tinman is destroying any chance of Argentine achieving its aim for the purpose of achieving short term publicity and covering up the many failings of the failed Argentine government.
Someone being driven away from the Old Bailey!
Just does, it's spooky! bit like him really.
The point about the names/ delegates is that these were all private persons who all have a right to hold an opinion about the Falklands, just as I am allowed to believe the world is flat or that the moon is made of green cheese (Have you never seen Wallace & gromit's Fine Day Out?).
However, the delegates were not attending this gathering or conference in the name of any Nation States and they were not representing the views of any Governments, so it was just like a coach-load of tourists on an away-day excursion being herded into a carpet weaving factory and expected to purchase some products after a demonstration of carpet weaving, before getting back on the bus.
The rubbish about being supported by 18 European countries is just a smokescreen to confuse any members of the Press who had nodded off to sleep through sheer boredom.
What is entirely laughable is the apparent lack of “dialogue” (there's that word again) between the 42 members from the 18 countries and the rest of the world. How can anyone talk to them if their names are not published and no-one is allowed to witness the discussions?
The entire stunt was a charade and Timerman would have been less embarassing if he had kept his mouth shut during his entire UK trip.
He knows that the Falkland Islands position is solid and just, he will mai ntain the UK position on no talks over sovereignty, offer talks on others, such as closer economic relations and that will be the extent of it.
My personal opinion is that the Islanders legislatures are doing fine work on behalf of the Islanders, we should encourage them and support them in that work and we must never, never! cease to reassure them that their sovereignty is not negotiatable and that they have our support.
Truly pathetic!
I don't know if its just me but the sight and sound of petulant Latins protesting like children and stamping their feet is just hilarious. My reaction is that its quite entertaining. The Timerman /KFC show is so amateur its unbelieveable really.
Man is an idiot.
Just like Nelson Muntz?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_4bLNM0axE
Tinman should have stayed in London a bit longer, there are many fine medical institutions there that can help him with his delusions.
i dont believe that for one second, everyone knew it was bullsh*t from the release of the announcement,
we are talking about argentina here, they cant even lie straight in bed!
no where near pulling it off and it never had any chance of success, sorry!
argtards must try harder than timmerman, hes a hoot!
Let me explain. There was, and never has been, any such thing as “Chagossians” or “Chagos Islanders”. The people are properly called “Îlois” and are not native. Not least because there is no fresh water in the Chagos Archipelago. The “Îlois” were the descendants of slaves imported by the French. As well as a few itinerant fishermen. If they have any nationality, it is that of Mauritius. Following the abolition of slavery, a process begun by Britain, the “Îlois” became contract workers for a Mauritian company. Not one “Îlois” has ever owned so much as a grain of sand in the Chagos Archipelago. The British government bought the islands. Who had proper responsibility for the “Îlois”? That had to be their employer. The Mauritian company. Who refused to do anything. So the British government gave the Mauritian government money to re-settle and support the people. What happened? The Mauritian government pocketed the money and did nothing. The British government paid out more. But then, no doubt, some smartass lawyer figured that this was something that could be repeatedly milked. So the government blocked all further attempts. You don't get self-determination by working somewhere. You get it by populating somewhere. Of your own volition. I live in a village close to Aldershot. That's the area that I “populate”. I used to work at Heathrow Airport. Did I have any “rights” at Heathrow outside those applicable to my employment? No, I didn't. The same goes for the “Îlois”. The fact that argies keep bringing the matter up clearly indicates that, for them, it is a useful piece of misdirection. The circumstances of the “Îlois” were completely different to those of the Falkland Islanders!
Let me get this straight then:
“There are Falkland Islanders because they got there, and consigned a mammal to extinction within a few decades. They deserve self-determination”.
“The Chagossians 'don't exist', because they actually worked. If you work, you don't exist. That's why we deracinated them. They have no self-determination, because they work”
And that ladies and gentlemen sums up the British mentality to a crossed T. Conqueror... the gift that keeps on giving.
The most important achievement:
This just started and is in full swing. It has achieved the primary objective of installing the Malvinas conflict in the heart of the colonial center English: English domestic public opinion.
It is an achievement of the policy of state led by Argentina.
Always keep in mind the Constitution Argentina:
“La Nacion Argentina ratifies its legitimate and sovereignty over the Falkland Islands, South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands and the corresponding maritime and insular areas, being part of the national territory. Recovery of said territories and the full exercise of sovereignty , respecting the way of life of their inhabitants and according to the principles of international law are a permanent and unwavering goal of the Argentine people. ”
CONSTITUTION ARGENTINA, Prime transitional provision
I don't know anything about the Chagossians but I believe Conqueror's point is that they were all contract workers working on the Islands for a company. Contracts workers are not members of the native population. We get loads down here in the Falklands and once their visa is up they leave or extend their visas. They are not part of the Falklands community until they have either PRP (permenate residence permit) or Falkland Islands status.
Falkland Islanders have done a lot more then just 'arrive' on the Falklands. Evidenced by the fact that we have no debts or deficit and a booming economy. A hard thing to find in this day and age.
Ah, even more 'ignorance' from our friend Nostil (Tobias/TTT). Trying to divert the thread with a completely irrelevant comment. Well done, nope I mean PATHETIC.
Just like your Foreign Minister is pathetic.
But I would really like to thank you Tobias, and those Argentine citizens like you, for voting in this government, who are the best thing to ever happen, that promotes the Falkland Islanders rights to self-determination.
You Foreign Minister has been caught out in blatant lies, and the more he lays it on, the more the rest of the world knows that the Argentine government wouldn't know the truth if it danced naked in front of them singing “I am the truth - look at me.”
So thanks Tobias.
At the rate this government is destroying Argentina you won't be much more than a footnote in history that reads:
'There was once this country called Argentina, but it was run by gangsters and thieves. Although there were some decent people, the majority seemed to be brain dead parrots, just repeating whatever lies the gangsters told them.
The gangsters decided that the best way to distract the people was through inventing a group of mythical islands, and telling people that owning these Islands would solve ALL of their problems, and that the only thing stopping them from owning these islands were a group of pirates. The gangsters even tried to steal some Islands belonging to someone else, hoping they wouldn't notice. But they did notice, and they gave the gangsters a good shoeing.
One day the Gangsters had stolen all there was to have, and left the deluded people behind with nothing. These people then fell upon each other, and Argentina ceased to exist. Now Brazil, Chile and Uruguay took pity on these people, so took over the running of various provinces, and within a few years everybody was happy and prosperous. And the moral of this story is; don't let gangsters rule your lives, and don't believe everything you're told. Here endeth the lesson.”
My intention was not to discredit the Falklanders, but to humanize the Chagossians, which the British apparently are taught to have been “machines”, at best indentured servants. And like all machinery, they could be moved at will... even if the “machinery” had 2nd, 3rd generation “tools” whom had never known anything but their “workplace”.
Face it Conqueror's harangue was monumentally despicable.
1) The decolonization of the Falkland Islands
and
2) The Argentine sovereignty claim.
Argentina has absolutely nothing to do with 1), that is a problem between the administered territory (Falkland Islands Government) and the administrating power (United Kingdom).
Argentina has to do with 2) in that she is the claimant. She should take her “proofs” of sovereignty to the International Courts of Justice (ICJ) and ask for arbitration in this matter.
If the ICJ delivers a descision favorable to Argentina, then there will have to be talks between the Islanders and the Argentine government about how to handle the handover.
If the ICJ deliver a descision unfavourable to Argentina then we and our “government” will just have to STFU and get on with our lives!!!!!!!
The question asked in the referendum is not, as stated by Timerman and the rest of the sychophantic troupe, that the Islanders wish to be British, rather they are asked if they wish to maintain the present relationship with Gret Britain!!!!!!!
I have always said that it's necesary to have intellectual honesty, in order to discuss about something so complicated like politic issues are.
Although i support our legitimate claim for the islands, i have always criticised also some expressions of some of our politicians, including timerman's, because some of their concepts are wrong.
What is lamentable is that the hipocresy of planty of forists, politicians, and jiornalists who publish their opinions in mercopress, don't let them see that actualy both parts aren't acting correctly, not just arg.
At the same time that many of those people accuse arg. of wanting just one outcome for this dispute, which according to their analysis, that so called outcome would be the total submition of the sovereignty of the islands to arg., they support the posture of the govt. from the islands, every time they manifest that they are disposed to discuss about different issues with arg., but not about the sovereignty, which is the main problem, isn't it wanting just one outcome too?, do you realise now about your doble standar and hipocresy?.
Accept it or not, the govt. from the islands has never been included as a third part, however, although the u. k. decides to resume the negotiations with arg. for the sovereignty of the islands, if the islanders manifest that they want to remain under british govt., arg. won't be able to force them to accept our sovereignty only, but it doesen't mean that both countries can't find a fair solution that satisfies the wishes of the islanders, and argentina's sovereign rights. Like the secret proposal treated between arg. and the u. k. in 1974, read by c. f. k. before the u. n. in june 14th 2012, which was based on a shared sovereignty.
As for the rest of colonial eurpoe, who knows? but I would rather take their word on it, not yours.
Nothing is in full swing, except in the minds of your own deluded selfs.
Falkland Islands for Falkland Islanders always and forever.
Yet you are deliberately missing out the fact that Argentina invalidated all UNGA resolutions and potential agreements between the UK and Argentina on 2 April 1982.
Basically you decided to use force to get what you wanted and you FAILED. You LOST a war that everyone said you shouldn't have lost.
Now to the victor goes the spoils. It's over, it's finished. The Falkland Islands will never be Argentinian UNLESS the people on the Falklands wish it to be so.
They will make that decision in March this year, and no matter how much crying, begging, stamping of feet Argentina does, no matter how much you try to ignore the only people whose rights and voice matters, regarding the islands; it will be finally over.
Look around you Axel. Look at what your government is doing to your country. They are destroying it from within, and all you can do is bitch on about a group of islands that are irrelevant to what is happening.
Wake up before Argentina is completely destroyed by these gangsters that call themselves your government.
Or are you not allowed to criticise them? Or is it because they pay you worthless money to come on here and spout the same old useless crap that has been disproved more times than you've had hot dinners?
Argentina is teetering on the brink of destruction, and all you can do is applaud the very people swinging the demolition machinery, who will leave you with nothing.
Right on to the article. The one thing I cannot gather is why we don't see articles like this in the main stream press in the UK.
Is it because we don't want to lower our standards and be potentialy accused of distributing what may be called “propergander” by Argentina?
www.facebook.com/HonourRestored
They'll hark on about their revisionist history, but they're scared to death of the ICJ/ICA because their history will be shown in daylight to be a sham, and they to be liars.
So, I don't really understand what axel is on about, as natural law suggests the people living on the islands own it, unless someone throws them off.
Conclusion: either take it to the ICJ or stop using 'legitimate claims'
You do not find it suprising, that any negotiations on over the islands pre 1982 are now null and void?
You think that you can invade, cause the deaths of 255 British sercicemen and 3 Falkland Islanders and then return to the pre 1982 political status?
Can you think of a single incidence where a nation has resorted to armed aggression has a means to a political end, then having failed to achieve that end, return to a poin in time and act as if nothing happened?
All and any talks, discussions or agreements, pre 1982 are irrelevant, beacuse you breached them.
For instance, Jon Sopel, a respected BBC journalist, who won the 2007 Political Journalist of the Year award, did a report for 5-Live radio shortly after attending the meeting & proceeded to repeat Timerman's lies that the British only arrived in the Falklands in 1833.
Sopel did not go as far as to suggest that the British evicted all the Argentines on the Islands, but this 'mis-information' shows that Sopel did not study up on the dispute & took Timerman's words at face value.
This is the same problem we have at the United Nations. The Argentine delegation spends a lot of time talking to other nations & persuading everyone that the Argentines were peaceful occupants & right-full sovereignty owners, when the nasty old British Empire turned up & booted them off.
The other countries haven't got a clue if this is lies or not, so they accept what the Argies say as fact, not realising it's just lies.
People around the world want to believe that the super-powers are evil. A lot of the time, the whispers in the ears that suggest this happen to come from other super powers, evil empires like China or the former Soviet Union and present day Russia.
In the absence of better knowledge & concrete facts, the third world is far more likely to support a developing country over a super-power. Especially when that developing country has bribes to use to get support.
It would help a great deal if the Foreign Office was to explain how the Argentines are misleading the rest of the world about the Falkland Islands. Give them the facts or allow visits to the Islands.
The referendum helps a great deal to show the wishes of the Islanders, but all that work can be undone if a journalist listens to the lies and crap originating in Buenos Aires & believes it, then repeats it to others who are deceived. We need better publicity to make fools of Timerman & co.
Timmerman is relying on people 'believing' what he says, and is using fairly ford-transit-like propaganda to get his lies across. What he forgets here is that a large factor in persusaion is 'trust', a measure of the worthiness of the individual.
No one trusts Timmerman.
All that is needed in the UK is just a bit more information about the fact we were on the islands a long time before Argentina even existed, and their statements about stealing it from Argentina that didn't exist are clearly lies, because they didn't exist!!
You see the same nonsense in the Spanish-language La Nacion comments where the uneducated Argentines don't even know the dates don't match up. Just like axel who is clearly uneducated.
However, what's funnier than a circus is keeping quiet while you send your half-witted foreign minister and diplomatic stewardesses to rant and rave, talking to ex-pat argentines, and getting a traitor to have some ideas about how to get the islands he turned his back on.
That in itself is far more amusing.
is time for the UK to stop the diplomatic relations with Argentina!
enough is enough! but........Ca-Moron loves the circus circus conference
Don't let petty meaningless nonsense get in the way of business.
@46 he probably was told in a memo, that was discarded without thought.
It's weird since Tinman is the one trying to generate the publicity and failing I have to say. He didn't even make the national news in the UK!
LOL
“isn't worth Cameron time”.....
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuujajaja
I thought he still is the UK PM
“likes of Hector” or not,
someone in the UK has to stop the “circus-circus” situation
as an argentine citizen I thought the UK will stop the diplomatic relations with my country!
enough is enough!
The truth is, we really don't care and as such let you have your little publicity stunts. The UK doesn't need to do anything other than carry on as normal which is the position it seeks.
If Argentina wishes to break off diplomatic relations, thats fine, it wont make any difference anyway.
All in all, you're not important enough for us too care about.
Sussie
Great Britain is not going to break off diplomatic relations with Argentina just because their president any foreign minister tell lies. That would be playing into the hands of the Argentines. It would enable them to say that the British are not willing to talk.
Hague played a masterful stroke by offering talks so long as the Islanders are involved. Timerman made it worse for Argentina by not attending.
Now Hague can show the picture of the empty chair to the United Nations and point out that Argentina is wasting the UN's time by demanding talks about the Falklands and then refusing to attend them!
It will make the Argentine diplomats into fools, because the UN will ask why Argentina refused to attend. The UN accepts that the Islanders wishes have to be respected. Ban Ki-moon said that the islanders have to decide their own future and any other country would also respect position - IF they understood the history better.
You see Argentina spreads an awful lot of lies about the Islands. The latest example is his claim that the young Falkland Islanders holiday in Buenos Aires. Total rubbish of course, but how are other nations to know this is bull-shit?
What the Falkland Islanders need to do is back up the Referendum next month with a host of documentaries about Falkland Islands history and Falkland Islands ecology.
The greatest asset that the Islanders have, is that truth is on their side. The documents in Buenos Aires, London & Stanley prove that the Argentines were not evicted in 1833. The murderous, mutinous garrison was told to leave, but the other Argentines stayed.
We need a authoritative history of the Islands, prepared by the BBC or Discovery Channel or National Geographic, to tell the true story from the documents. To show that the Islands are worth preserving as they are with the current custodians and that these people have every right to decide their own future, for themselves and their children.
No, Nostril, that sums up Conqueror's mentality alone. The rest of us think it was very wrong and should be reversed.
Conqueror is right that they are non indigenous, but they had been there since 1786 when they were taken there by the French when it was French territory. Though being indigenous or not is irrelevant to their rights to self-determination. And there is fresh water for a small population
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Garcia#Fresh_water_supply
Yes, you cannot stop me! uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuujajaja
many argentinians have told you to keep such Falk-Slum-Lands in your arse....
the islanders have demostrated that during 189 years there is not much they can afford to develop such frigid islands...
You are mentally retarded.
my favorite bumbling argentine nazi entertainer by far....
love you timmerman do you do childrens parties??
you have 3,ooo retards living in the islands for 189 years...what they have to show off : N O T H I N G
The Falklanders have oil, a quality of life, a bright outlook and more importantly....
SELF-DETERMINATION!
A free Education Service that pays for students and their airfares for holdays to go to Universities and Colleges in Europe?
A way of life where Drugs do not exist and the streets are safe for any age to walk late at night - a place where people leave their homes and vehicles unlocked and open.
A standard of living way way above that of Argentines of similar job status.
A small community who have their own laws and run their own affairs - have an internationally highly regarded Fisheries Regime.
A country that has cash reserves equal to pay all the Govt expenditure on wages and services etc for 2.5years with zero income if neccessary?
A country that has a fully funded national pension fund for all - we dont have to rob other people like Argentina,s state pension funds have to!
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuujajaja
Argentina is not such a bad place....
see what is going in the USA? a Cyber attack in goverment departments including in supermarkets
during the last 5 days more crime than ever!
Hit and run
Drive by shootings
Home Invasion
Vandalism
poverty: CNN just announced that there are 49.5 millons of citizens living in poverty.
Before Obama administration there were 47 millons of poor USA citizens
how Obama is going to cope with the gun control, immigration, 16 trillons debt and the fiscal cliff? very poorly...there is too much anxiety ...no one knows what is next!
Very random....
try saying this.... S.E.L.F....D.E.T.E.R.M.I.N.A.T.I.O.N...
Hector “I can't remember my own nickname” Timerman says that the people living in The falkland Islands do not exist right?
So if the FIG were to arrive in B.A, punch Timerman in the c*ck, burn the government office to the ground and steal KFC's wig and false eye then, as a non - existant people. they could not be charged with anything right?
Argentina tries to claim that the Islanders are 'implanted', that they were placed there, moved to the Islands by the British Government. We know that they migrated there naturally.
BUT DOES THE REST OF THE WORLD KNOW THIS?
You see it is all very well us saying that the Islanders come from all over the world and that they are not solely from Great Britain and they migrated to the Islands, just the same as people migrated to Argentina.
BUT DOES THE REST OF THE WORLD KNOW THIS?
Argentina tells the rest of the world that the Islanders have no rights of Self Determination, because they were implanted in Argentine territory. They say that they claimed the Islands from the Spanish, but the Spanish that left the Islands in 1811 were loyal to Spain & Spain still claimed them. However Spain recognised Britain's sovereignty.
BUT DOES THE REST OF THE WORLD KNOW THIS?
You see, until we expose every false part of the Argentine claim, the rest of the world will believe their lies. Pascoe & Pepper (and many others) have done a fantastic job in explaining the history.
What we need though is a series of documentaries that explains the history of the islands visually. Those booklets that FIG prepared are useful and cheap, but a TV documentary would be even better.
The 51 Degrees South films really brought home the friendly nature of the Islanders. I wish they could show more, about life in the Camp, the work of the FIG, the tourism guides and even the children. This is about their future. We want their future to be bright, to be decided by them and not by Buenos Aires.
We need to show the world that the Islanders have every right to be British. They have preserved their way of life. They created a community with little or no crime, no recreational drug problem, with children who have every opportunity & a community that cares for all.
Can someone translate this for me. I have looked in my Spanish dictionary but it does not appear. The spelling looks peculiar and I have no idea how it is pronounced
“uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuujajaja”
It seems to be used regularly by our more mentally challenged Argie. posters. Could it be an expression akin to howling at the full moon ?
“uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuujajaja”
Is it Spanish for ”Our arguements are so thin you can read newspaper print through them“ ???
or
”Help me please, I can not find my Cerebellum”
Please support our other page - Falkland Islands Desire The Right - dedicated to Falkland Islands current affairs -
www.facebook.com/truthfk
No they must be referred to as British, or the latest Argentine master plan will fail. God forbid the rest of the world should ever learn, that there are numerous nationalities who prefer to live on the islands as it is, rather in the bosom of the great motherland!
I agrre 100% Nigel, it's all very well ignoring the Argentines crap, but a lot of the world actually believes it.
I can't understand why the Foreign Office or the MLA's (who are now doing better on this BUT WEREN'T), are not responding using past history in minute detail instead of treating it like a thrashing snake held by its tail, as though that history supports Argentina (which it clearly does not)!!!
I even had an MLA tell me ” well the past history(1833) is embarrassing for us.”
He would not have if he had actually tried reading it FFS!
MLA's /the Foreign Office should oppose every one of the Argentine lies-so the world media is pounded and pounded with the facts.
Your idea of a proper BBC documentary Nigel, taken from the records (perhaps starting with 1833 and possibly mentioning Britain was there BEFORE 1833) is spot on. If it is referenced to the correct records including that the ejected UP military had substantial numbers of British personnel, world opinion would open its eyes wide.
I agree, it is all very well letting the Argentines make asses of themselves but the more they repeat their crap the more the world will
believe them without checking the history which when examined does not present a viable Argentine claim.
If the Argentine claim was factual and incontestable in every way, there is nothing any of us could do to counter it.
I am just BEMUSED at the MLA's (generally, they are now more pro active) and Foreign Office's inability to use the vast amounts of historical ammunition in their armoury.
At times I wonder if like the Argentines, they want to keep the argument simmering for purely political reasons, when all this could be knocked on the head for good?
I don't believe that a documentary with all the facts will make one jot of difference as they would put it down to propaganda. Far better the referendum to tell the world ( as long as the observers are all credible ) that is what the FALKLAND ISLANDERS want.
Or an Argentinian version of 'ello 'ello . Call it “BA 'ola 'ola”
another fake screen name posted by the UK team!
and the UK team complaints about me.
you have both brain cells required to have a long career in argentine politics, but i believe you may be over qualified?
but before you throw stones you may wish to take a look at this.......
erinmichaelafuera.wordpress.com/2011/10/22/poverty-in-argentina/
so by your own educated logic, argentines cease to exist as nothing but microbe bottom feeders looking at the state of these poor argentines dwellings on the internet, your logic not mine dont forget !
but here in the adult world all peoples have recognition, and if you need a break from yourself I can recommend a great hotel on The Falklanders island,
www.dreamstime.com/stock-images-malvina-house-hotel-stanley-falkland-islands-image16365854
SELF DETERMINATION.....Enjoy your stay!
Fix your 3rd world politics gringo, then come to us Argentines.
Whatever the legal position, whatever the result of the referendum the Rgtards will keep spouting the same crap. Just treat it as entertainment!
I see you are playing with all your finger puppets today !
All your variants of Sussie and many others, it must keep you very busy.
A first generation RG who seems to have supped generously from the Kool-Aid jar.
A jew who seems to have no interest in looking after the interests of his fellow jews at any level.
Does he believe in what he is saying ( i.e is he just another RG indoctronaught ) or is he doing this for the money.
Does he have a photo of KFC with the donkey or does she have one of him?
Was he elected to what passes for the RG parliament ( ie is he the peronista member for Bumfuck Sur )or does the sad excuse for a prez just hand out these jobs to her chums.
Never trust a bloke who slumps like that in the back seat of a limo... it shows they have no spine...
Many people in the UK agree to dialogue with Argentina1
Quite correct ! It follows along this line ”BACK OFF OR WE WILL KNOCK THE SHIT OUT OF YOU - FOR REAL !!!!!
The United Nations recognises there is a dispute and asks for peaceful dialogue, only because the alternative is an 'un-peaceful state', in other words - WAR and the United Nations abhors war and wants peace.
Argentina doesn't want peace though. They think that bullying the Falkland Islanders will make them give in. They think that ignoring the Falkland Islanders and claiming that this is a colonial matter will enlist the support of other nations. But those other nations are not going to do anything. Indeed, the more that Argentina protests about talks, the more that we will point to the empty chair and say that Argentina was offered talks - if only to tell them politely that sovereignty will never be discussed, because the Falkland Islanders don't want to.
Argentina is like a naughty child. They believe that if they stamp their feet, shout and whine, make a scene in public, that their parents will give in and let them have whatever they want.
Well I have news for you Argentina. Other nations do not act like children, they act like adults. Adults do not demand things from other people. Adults try to make friends with people they want to be closer to.
Let's explain this another way.
Argentina is fond of the Tango. If there was an enticing lady across the dance floor and you wanted to get to know her better, even invite her home, you would not walk across and slap her about the face before inviting her to dance. You also wouldn't get anywhere by being abusive at her, shouting at her and calling her nasty names. You certainly would not get a dance if you spoke to her employer and asked him to fire her from her job, or spoke to her friends about how nasty a lady she was and that she was refusing your advances.
If you tried that approach, you would have no girlfriend. You would be a rapist, who forced yourself on the lady.
The problem is Argentina cannot behave like they are and get some real world support. For instance timmerman telling people that the UK has no support at all is really a kick in the teeth to the EU. A group of Countries and world leaders who took their time to beat out the Lison treaty and recognise the islands as British. There is no EU support for Argentinas claims at all. The US is sitting on the fence and I cannot see them ever changing this stance. Which leaves Argentine support local to the south Americas which I could understand their support to Argentina and third world countries that don't know any better.
I do feel we should treat CFK like a belligerent puppy and smack her across the nose with a rolled up newspaper while repeating “no, bad president, no”
“took their time to beat out the Lison treaty and recognise the islands as British”
Lison treaty, ha ha
“I don't believe that a documentary with all the facts will make one jot of difference”
I absolutely disagree with you re the effectiveness of a documentary. If the documentary was evidenced with reference it would make more than a jot of difference, but not of course in South America.
However, you are absolutely correct to point out that the referendum is of much more importance, and Timerman's desperate stunts are evidence that the Argentines are petrified of the effects that the referendum will have if presented to the UN and the world.
The biggest problem is that all Argentinians are raised to believe the false history that is fed to them by their families, their school-teachers and their politicians. They simply do not know the truth.
A case in point was the recent advert that the Sun ran in the Buenos Aires newspapers, in response to the Argentine one in the British press. Many Argentines interviewed in the street afterwards said that they had no idea that the British were on the islands in 1775, long before any Argentine arrived and before the Spanish turned up.
There are documents in the Argentine historical archives which prove that in 1833, there were 22 of Vernet's settlers still on the Falklands and that 12 of those were Argentines. There are no documents which back up the claim that David Jewett was sent on purpose to the Islands in 1820, or that there was a governor in the Islands in 1823, as Argentina claims.
The Argentine documents, as well as the thousands of documents in the British National Archives and elsewhere, show conclusively that the Argentine version of history is wrong.
Imagine the impact that a documentary would have, if publicised on You-Tube in Spanish, showed the Argentine children that they've been misled.
More importantly, think of the damage to the Argentine cause abroad, if the documentaries showed with incontrovertible evidence (from both Buenos Aires & London), that the Argentines were aware that they were deceiving other nations.
It is as powerful an image as the empty chair. It's a diplomatic tool for showing other nations that the Argentines are nothing more than opportunistic thieves, living up to their creed of Viveza Criolla. In other words:
Total, si no robo yo, robará otro. -- “Overall, if I do not steal, another will steal.”
The documentary would be a powerful educational tool. It would explain the truth without fear of any bias at all. It would demonstrate that the Falkland Islanders have truth on their side.
“Lison treaty, ha ha”
Is that the best you can do, Dany?
Do desperate to find fault or criticise Brits, but while they talk about history, the UN, and international press, all you can do is latch onto a typo error!
Sad really. You cannot support any argument, no matter how much you bluster, you know we are right and Argentina's false claims are going down the toilet, along with their credibility on the world stage.
LEPRECOM and REALITY: I understand that for mamy of you, the invasion of 1982 ordered by the criminal junta that roled arg. in that moment, is your best excuse to reject the negotiations. However, if after those terrible events, the u. n. continued calling both nations to resume the negotiations, it should be respected by both parts. Since 1983 arg. is a democracy. Beside, like it or not, the u. k. is not the owner of the international right.
The strong the defence that you and your govt. make, respecting the right to self determination for the islanders, is no more than colonial hipocresy, because you all know that none u. n. resolution has never invoked that right for the population from the islands, in fact, get into the website from the u. n., and you'll see that what i say is true, beside, the case has always been considered like a special colonial situation.
Regarding the referendum, search in this website, what was expressed by the president from the decolonization committe, in relation to that so called referendum, the date is june 16th 2012. If some of you prefer invaliding what he said, because it doesen't coincid with your opinions, sorry, but it's irrelevant.
Regarding the situation of my country, nobodoy knows about it better than us, you just read the tipical partial and mediocre information that decadent empires make in reation to the latinamerican countries.
On the other hand, i don't think that you are being paid to express your ideas, i'm sure tat they are part of your convictions. However, leprecom seems to forget that i have convictions too, and i don't need to be paid to defend my own ideas.
BOMBARDIER SPOON: Maybe with you i can have a mature debate, as you can see, this forum is full of reactionary people who just insult, or make mediocre analysis.
Victoria Torres from Argentina representing Germany
Augustin Blanco Bazan from Argentina representing the UK
Dr. Francisco Panizza from Argentina also representing the UK
Mónica González from Argentina representing Spain
Lucrecia Escudero from Argentina representing France
Oooops!
Argentina is anti-british
AFUERA DE MI PAIS INGLESES ODIOSOS!
You're having a laugh, Many in Argentina could'nt care less about the FALKLANDS they would sooner your Government sorted out your domestic problems. What do you say?
“La Nacion Argentina ratifies its legitimate and sovereignty over the Falkland Islands...”. Whew the Brits must be glad of that, it means there will be no change in the status quo. Simply because Argentina has no legitimate claim, at least not according to all international experts that I have read.
30 Simon68
Just to bring you up to speed, Argentina has lost the right to submit the issue to the ICJ because of her negligence in submitting it within the allowed time period. So she has forfeited that right under the doctrine of extinct prescription.
The invasion of 1982 was an act of the criminal junta was it? All well andp good to say that 30 years after the event, but from what I saw of the celebrations, there hundreds of thousands of you going crazy supporting that criminal act. Your entire country in fact. Very convenient to blame it on them now.
Read the articles of the UN charter, they take precedence over all resolutions. Self determination most certainly does apply, how many times do we have to quote the General Secretary's words on the subject to you. Just because it does agree with your interpretation, you act like he never said it, well he did.
The referendum is legal, it will take place and you will never gain sovereignty of the islanders against their wishes.
Until now you guys just only have provide me with good stunt.
You cannot convince anyone in the world with your liars and sense of history.
But keep trying...
. The mentally challenged speak again -the same person changing their name every few days. I believe it is called multiple personality disorder
I think that this sums it up. Argentina is anti British.
As this is the case, why should the UK have any talks with Argentina ?
If we don't hand over the Falklands you dislike us.
If we hand over the Falklands, you dislike us.
So we gain nothing either way. That being the case, the status quo is the obvious solution.
My attitude to Argentina is like a midge bite. Irritating but not to be taken seriously.
But again, my impressions of Argentina are formed by the comments of “Argentinians” posting on this forum and by the actions of their government..
If they were all luvvy dovey, hearts and roses friendly toward us, I would start to smell a rat, because it clearly would not be genuine behaviour. How does the saying go, “better the enemy you know” and before they start to get all upset and twist my use the of the word enemy, I mean it in the political sense.
Argentina is anti-british.
Cameron is complaining about “the argentine goverment harasment”
BUT,
Cameron don't do nothing!
stupid brit!
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuujajaja
Merco-british crap-Press is nothing more than a shit hole!
”Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has told an Argentine newspaper that UK is not violating relevant UN resolutions referred to the Falklands’. On colonialism, he argued that a prevailing impression is that “people living under certain conditions should have a certain level of capacities so that they can decide their own future”
Nostrolldamus the 10th:
I notice you keep mentioning Chagossian's regarding Self Determination.
Self Determination is the act of being able to choose your own political status. For the common person this is essentially the right to vote for the government you want.
I for one do not agree with that happened to them at all but they certainly aren't denied there Self Determination at all. They were ethnically cleansed.
It's a horrible crime, but it's not the same crime.
wowwwwwwwwwwwww is she the only USA citizen posting in Merco-british crap-Press?
This he she or it contributes nothing to this debate and posts rubbish. I think even our Argentine posters would agree it doesnt do them a lot of credit either. It has now started using other posters names with one letter altered
To register with mercopress we all have to give our email addresses. So please editors can you please not allow the same person to post under multiple names. I sincerely hope I have the support of all serious posters on either side on this
are BOTH Sussie - he is a dumkopf
If you change this, you can post again and again,
I don’t know if this is true,
But if just by changing your username, that’s allows you to multy post,
Then the editors should ban the alteration of username change at least on a monthly bases.
But I don’t know if this is true,
Someone would have to try it.
.
and the winner is SussieUS!
What about Arifu, the Edvard Munch of Mendoza??
Philippe
HE REMOVES ALL COMMENTS THAT HE DOES NOT LIKE
HE CANNOT COPE WITH THE TRUE
POOR BRITISH WIMP
Cameron does not need to do anything, everything is going according to plan. REFERENDUM IN 26 DAYS
@124
Jog on if nothing intellegent to say
REALITY: It is often said in this forum by a lot of ignorant people like you, that most argentine people supported the war of 1982, in fact, in some oportunities were posted in some articles pictures of that day, when dictator galtieri anounced before a lot of people in plaza de mayo that arg. had recovered the islands. However, what you, and all the rest of the ignorant people omit, is that in that moment he said that arg. had recovered the islands without any rancour, which was absolutly false.
On the other hand, you omit also the fact that during the dictatorship, there wasn't any freedom of press, all the chanels, and all the rest of the press were under the control of the junta, and all the information that came from the islands was distorted by order of the it. In fact, it was said all the time that we were wining. The are planty of documentals about the behaviour of the press during the dictatorship.
Beside, if you think that most argentine people supported the war, because plaza de mayo was full of people, and and because there were many people celebrating in the streets, it shows your low capacity to make a serious analysis about something so complicated like the historic context of arg. in 1982, ruled by a criminal dictatorship.
REALITY and ZETHE: I have always wondered, and i have always expressed in this forum, that if the right to self determination is perfectly applicable for this cause, then why has this case always been considered like a special colonial situation?, why that principle was never invoked for this question in any of the resolutions that were expressed for this case, like happened with others colonial situations, why in 1985, the general assembly rejected a project of emmendation presented by the u. k., with the purpose of including self determination for this cause?.
I don' deny that perhaps that right could be applicable for the islanders, but don't you think it's hightly arguable?.
There were much more people who gave their money to that trick called, fondo patriótico (patriotic fund), however after the end of the war, it was discovered that nothing was received by the soldiers, because most donations had been sold in the mainland.
On the ether hand, many of the soldiers suffered the hard weather of the archipelago, and were hungry, beside, many of them suffered also terrible abusses by their bosses.
Anyway, despite these horrible and repudiable facts, don't forget what i said in comment 138 respecting the behaviour of the press during the conflict, because it helps to understand the reasons why a lot of people went to plaza de mayo to celebrate the recovery of the islands.
On the other hand, during the celebrations in plaza de mayo, there was aslo a huge protest, leaded by leaders of different unions and workers, which lemma was, malvinas si, proceso no (yes to malvinas, no to the process).
The way the soldiers - peones uniformados - were treated is a stain and a disgrace to the officer class, mainly arrogant portenos. Ok the patriotic fund was a scam. The junta lied to the people and unfortunately the current set of politicos are still lieing to the people and enriching themselves at the same time
Plus ca change et plus sont los meme chose
Even the chocate collected from the poor people for your troops never got to your soldiers never got to them and then misteriously disappeared. think I have an aricle in “Gente” on that
As for press freedom being government controlled at the time, yes.
But isnt that exactly what is happening now under the present government? CFK doesnt like critiscism, dislikes a free press and never gives interviews
As to the protest by the unions “Malvinas si, proceso no” I will have to look that up. My apologies for the lack of tildes
There is something that you, and all the rest of the people must understand once and for all.
In the same way that absolutly everybody have right to criticise any govt., the president, or any other functionary have right to answer those critics, especially when many of those critics are based on politic-mediatic operations.
In many articles publised in mercopress, is emphasized the fact that during nestor kirchner presidence, his gotv., and the clarin group (the most powerful mediatic corporation?, had a good relation, which is true, however, what is omitted in all those articles, is the context, when nestor kichner took office in 2003.
In that moment, the country had a 53% of poor people, 22% of unemploit, on the other hand, the country was going through a hard recesion, which had started in 1998, beside, the nation was on default.
So, with that deplorable and miserable context, it was obvious that he was going to need clarin's help, and wasn't going to present a law at the congress, to democratize the media, like c. f. k. did in 2009 don't you think?.
There are a lot of ignorant and hipocrite people in arg., who just because they hate c. f. k. histerically, they compare her gotv. with a dictatorial regime, this is evident that they have no idea about what they say.
Anyway, i have a question for those ignorants, if c. f. k's govt. is a dictatorship, how is it posible that they can know about all the denounces of corruption cases that are published often in the press?, what kind of dictatorship is that?.
On the other hand, most those hipocrites, avoid criticising the fact that the clarin group, could get all the legal injuctions, thanks to the entails that it has with the some corporative sectors of the justice, in order to not to comply with the new broadcast law, sanctioned in 2009, which really democratizes the media, i ask again, what kind of dictatorship is c. f. k's govt.?.
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