Wednesday, February 13th 2013 - 19:01 UTC

Argentina labels Uruguayan lawmaker as ‘traitor’ for observing Falklands’ referendum

Argentina’s president of the Lower House and Malvinas veteran Julián Domínguez described as “treason to Latinamerica” the fact that Uruguayan lawmakers will be travelling to the Falklands to observe the coming referendum on the Islands political status and future.

Dominguez said Trobo’s ‘treason’ does not represent the majority feeling in Uruguay

“It is treason to the whole of Latinamerica that a lawmaker from Uruguay should attend, as he has publicly stated, a referendum on Malvinas, a territory that belongs to the Argentines”, said Dominguez.

According to media reports, the Uruguayan opposition National party lawmaker Jaime Trobo in interviews said he will be one of several observers travelling to the Falklands for the referendum, organized by the elected government of the Islands.

“Evidently his attitude does not represent the majority feeling of the Uruguayan people and its government, which has always supported our cause”, said Dominguez without mentioning Trobo’s name.

Trobo is a strong critic of Uruguay ruling coalition’s foreign policy, and more precisely of Foreign minister Luis Almagro mainly for the close alignment with Argentina, Venezuela, Cuba and in the Middle East conflict disregarding long established Uruguayan state policies on those and other issues.

However the invitation to act as observers in the coming Falklands’ referendum was made extensive to all Uruguayan political parties in Congress but so far only some members of the National party, on their own account have accepted.

Dominguez made the statements during a ceremony to remember the 196 anniversary of the Chacabuco Battle, which according to the speaker was the first in which South American forces acted in a block.

Last week Argentine Foreign minister Hector Timerman in a London round of contacts said that the Malvinas Islands would be back under Argentine control within twenty years”.

However some Falkland Islanders twitted back that “Argentina has more chances of having the flag in the moon in the next 20 years than in Stanley”, and added that given Argentina’s record and repeated economic disasters, “planning ahead 20 years seems too overly optimistic”.

The message ended saying that “we are Falkland Islanders. We are a British Overseas Territory and proud of it” adorned with the image of a Falkland Islands flag and the word Self determination.
 

69 comments Feed

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1 malicious bloke (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 07:12 pm Report abuse
Fun to watch the rage, tears and hyperbole that result when cracks appear in Argentina's carefully crafted self-delusion :)
2 reality check (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 07:17 pm Report abuse
Does not mention Sr Trobo by name, I thought I read on one of Steves Spanish media links, that he called for him to be banned from entering Argentina for life? maybe I read it wrong. As for being a traitor to the whole of Latin America, I suppose when you're claiming to speak for the whole of the world, as they did in London. They can also speak for the whole of Latin America. Though I will say this, it stinks of monumental arrogance. I wonder what a Uruguayan or other Latin Americans would say on the subject?
3 Monkeymagic (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 07:18 pm Report abuse
The Malvinas belongs to the Argentines...??

Yes, all territories in the world belong to countries were nobody of that nationality has EVER been born there, the territory has been under the flag off that nationality for 130 days over 200 years, every time that nationality goes anywhere near the territory someone is murdered, raped or the result is the death of brave military personnel.

Shame on such a claim!!!
4 Monty69 (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 07:20 pm Report abuse
How can you commit treason against a geographical area? What a prat.
5 Shed-time (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 07:20 pm Report abuse
[1] traitor [ˈtreɪtə]
(noun)
a person who is guilty of treason or treachery, in betraying friends, country, a cause or trust, etc. [from Old French traitour, from Latin trāditor traditor]

... not entirely sure how this man is a traitor, considering the Argentines are as friendly as a kick in the throat, trustworthy as a new-labour spin-doctor, and the cause seems to be 'complete economic destruction'.

[1] www.thefreedictionary.com/traitor
6 golfcronie (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 07:24 pm Report abuse
Wonderful, they are getting their knickers in a twist now
7 Shed-time (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 07:29 pm Report abuse
Surely, Peron and Nestor are traitors for actively introducing failed long-term policied leading to cyclical financial ruin and widespread poverty for the masses.

Instead they focus their efforts on setting up a slum full of pregnant ladies in Antarctica, as if it's the answer to all their prayers.

Imbeciles.
8 malicious bloke (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 07:32 pm Report abuse
@7, to a patriot that argument would make sense. Nationalists with room temperature IQs, on the other hand, will just beat their chests and suck up to whichever thug is currently burgling their country's highest office.

It's a shame, but also quite funny to watch from without...
9 ElaineB (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 07:34 pm Report abuse
Oh, the drama! It doesn't do them any favours to behave like this; it just plays to their stereotype.
10 Monkeymagic (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 07:37 pm Report abuse
Shed-time

As you can see from the trolls on these boards, Marcos, Malvinero, Thunk, DOD, etc etc, would happily live in squalor, becoming poorer, scummier, more rancid day by day, as long as there is the merest of hopes Argentinas territory might grow by a few km2.

You remember Hitler, didn't care millions of Germans were dying as long as his Reich was growing.

What the rest of the world was “growing out of” 150-200 years ago, Argentina is still hankering for.

Argentina won't be complete until it has the Falklands
Then it won't be complete until it has South Georgia,
Then a massive chunk of Antartica,
Then Chile
Then Uruguay,
Then Paraguay,

The point is that Argentina will never be complete following this delusion....but as is shown by the morons on this board...delusion is still rife. Simon is probably the exception.
11 Shed-time (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 07:38 pm Report abuse
@9 when in ever did an Argentine ever do themselves any favours, ever?
12 malicious bloke (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 07:43 pm Report abuse
well, the kirchners and her pals are pretty minted.

Even when the default can't be hidden any more and they're on the first plane to north america with suitcases full of greenbacks, they've still made a ton of cash out of the last decade of perfidy.

Helping yourself to the national coffers and trashing an entire country to line your own pockets could be considered doing yourself a favour, if you can get out of the country alive :)
13 Shed-time (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 07:46 pm Report abuse
@12 you make them sound like they're Ferdinand Marcos et al.
14 malicious bloke (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 07:48 pm Report abuse
That doesn't sound too far off the mark, does it?
15 Orbit (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 07:55 pm Report abuse
Yet again, no thought goes into the next move. Lots of Uruguayans may dislike Trobo, but an attack by a rabid Argentine will only win Trobo support in his country.

“We don't like Trobo, but he's ours to dislike, so STFU Argland”.

It's basic human psychology.
16 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 07:59 pm Report abuse
@10

“growing out of 200 years ago”...

You Brits are full of completely zany, ridibund delusional statements today.

Is there some sort of magic to those wonderfully tasty Donkey Lasagne??
17 Shed-time (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 08:10 pm Report abuse
@15 What this all shows is that Argentina fundamentally considers Uruguay to be a crypto-province of Argentina, somewhere within their sphere of influence. There are a set of rules that are franchised by Argentina for all its puppets to adhere to like glue. Curious to have this spelled out by the leader of the lower house himself, as if he should have known better than to make what is implicit suddenly explicit.

Seemingly Argentina is synonymous with Latin America.
18 Xect (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 08:13 pm Report abuse
Nothing changes, just more bully aggressive and child like behavior from Argentina when it doesn't get its down way.

This is one of the many reasons Argentina has zero respect from other countries on the international stage.

The Argentine government really does itself no favours.
19 Brit Bob (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 08:26 pm Report abuse
Traitors, Pirates, Gypsies Tramps and theives!
20 slattzzz (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 08:31 pm Report abuse
@16 probably better than rgenweeners FMD ridden beef no one wants
21 ChrisR (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 08:35 pm Report abuse
The sad thing about this is that Pepe is probably shitting himself as we speak.

And when I get my citizenship and can vote I will support people like Sr Trobo who “is a strong critic of Uruguay ruling coalition’s foreign policy, and more precisely of Foreign minister Luis Almagro mainly for the close alignment with Argentina, Venezuela, Cuba and in the Middle East conflict disregarding long established Uruguayan state policies on those and other issues.”

Anybody who is against Almagro is most certainly worth voting for.
22 Joe Bloggs (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 08:45 pm Report abuse
“You're either with us or against us” Wasn't that George Dubbayah? LOL.

It'll be interesting to see if they get to him or not. Who thinks he'll board the flight in Rio Gellagos and who thinks he'll board in Punta Arenas?

This is why I won't tell Think and his bum-chum who else is lined up.

Chuckle chuckle
23 LEPRecon (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 08:45 pm Report abuse
This reminds me of when the Argentines accused Chile of being treacherous for being allied to the UK in the Falklands War.

They conveniently forgot that they planned to invade Chile next, and Chile was doing what any sensible country would do.

This is the same thing. Anyone in South America that doesn't agree 100% with Argentina is betraying Latin America.

This outrageous and arrogant belief that the Argentines have that they are somehow “Latin America” and everyone should bow down to them, shows everyone their true colours.

The more they start calling people from other countries who disagree with them traitors, the more they will ostracise themselves from these countries.

Tobias. Changing the subject as usual. No argument eh? So change the subject.

Doesn't work.

And big holes are now showing in your governments continued lies about the whole world supporting Argentina's claims, when the obverse is actually true.

No wonder you and the other trolls are desperately spouting any old crap.

Tell me, Tobias, does La Campora pay you based on the quantity of posts you make? If its on quality I think you are being overpaid.
24 slattzzz (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 08:47 pm Report abuse
I THINK traitor is a very strong word that could come back and bite Mr Dominguez
25 briton (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 08:48 pm Report abuse
How can he define traitor ,

Is he saying, that because Argentina says so/demand so, anyone and we mean anyone who goes to the Falklands or agrees to the referendum, is thus a trator,

That kind of makes billions of free minded people who support democracy traitors,
And all the rest dictated to by argentines demands,
Or that’s how it sounds,

Argentina and its deluded government must sooner or later except that argentina does not rule this planet, argentina does not rule south America , argentina does not rule the Falklands,

In plain English, it has nothing to do with any Argentinean or anyone else in this world, except the Falklands people,
And the rest of the world can freely make its own mind up,
So another bullet in the already empty brain of the CFK government.

.
26 Anbar (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 08:49 pm Report abuse
Argentine lower house showing how to win friends & influence people I see.... /em rolls eyes.
27 Conqueror (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 08:54 pm Report abuse
Argieland. A despotic regime based on the beaten Spanish “empire” and the beaten Nazi “reich”. We thought is was over. It isn't. Shit has to be destroyed. Protect the world. Destroy the argie shitpit! Leave nothing alive. Exterminate the argie bacteria!
28 slattzzz (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 08:59 pm Report abuse
No sussie tonight?
29 reality check (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 09:13 pm Report abuse
Bloody vice squad!!! Why can't they leave a hard working girl alone. Don't worry she'll make bail by tomorrow.
30 Orbit (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 09:22 pm Report abuse
@29 - and her crack dealer will go without his freebie tonight.
31 toooldtodieyoung (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 09:45 pm Report abuse
“Argentina has more chances of having the flag in the moon in the next 20 years than in Stanley”

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!!!!

”and added that given Argentina’s record and repeated economic disasters, “planning ahead 20 years seems too overly optimistic”.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!!!!

Faced with other nations not toeing the Argentine line, you can trust KFC's government to come out with the comedy!!!!

Well done, Falkland Islander whom so ever you are, for coming out with those double b*tch slaps!!!

Party on guys, Keep the faith!!!!
32 Steveu (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 09:57 pm Report abuse
@28 I think the trolls are having a “crisis huddle” tonight
33 Steve-33-uk (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 09:59 pm Report abuse
@31
Next week Hector Timerman will present Argentina's claim at the UN for the Moon. Timerman is set to argue that the moon reflects onto Argentina's continental shelf thus forming an integral part of Argentina.
According to the Argentine version of history, Argentine astronauts landed on the moon first, but its astronauts were forcibly removed in 1969.
“The moon was stolen from Argentina in a blatant act of colonialism, the whole of Latin America support our claim” he said, referring to the several resolutions from UNSAUR, CELAC and several other groups made up from the same countries! Argentina has had recent success in their diplomatic offensive persuading fellow Mercosur countries to ban pictures of the moon.
34 slattzzz (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 10:12 pm Report abuse
@33 hope he'll mention that the local Flora will blow there
35 andy65 (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 10:20 pm Report abuse
It gives me great pleasure to see Nostrolldamus the 10th repeatedly slapped down and put in his place like a badly behaved school child on this forum well done to all posters.
36 golfcronie (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 10:29 pm Report abuse
@16
Apparently they are laced with magic mushrooms, real yummy
Does my head in ,but in a lovely colourful haze
37 slattzzz (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 10:33 pm Report abuse
@35 Nostril anus THINKS he's clever but in fact comes across as a bit thick, doesn't do any research and in fact is nothing but a ill informed, brainwashed malvinista who's obviously on the payroll, now Sussie she's the clever one......................NOT!!!!!
38 screenname (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 11:53 pm Report abuse
Nothing like trying to make it some sort of racial thing. Argentina's 'government' really does not know EVERYONE can hear/see their comments.

I think the real reason that SA countries side with Argentina is because, like the UK, they understand how important trade is. While we continue to work with countries that we may not agree with on everything, Argentina seems intent on throwing insults around if any neighbour so much as forgets to tug their forelock.
39 andy65 (#) Feb 14th, 2013 - 01:02 am Report abuse
Thats the difference between The UK and that dark country called Argentina,now would you hear The UK call any EU countrys trators for not agreeing or having a different opinion?? what Argentina needs is a good slapping simply because they get away with bullying there own people they now think they can do it to the rest of South America
40 UncleTed (#) Feb 14th, 2013 - 12:25 pm Report abuse
It is sad that all S.American countries are in danger of being tainted with the same brush as the lunatic Argentina.
I met a family of Uraguayans on holiday who I was immediately wary of, assuming them to be cheating liars, as per the Argentine model. They turned out to be really nice folk, supportive of Islanders rights and really scathing about their neighboring country Argentina.
Countries like Uraguay really need to show more political backbone and show the world that they are independent free thinking people, not just an obedient part of Argentina's extended gang. I am sure they would profit both financialy and in respect if they joined the free world instead of looking over their shoulder to an insane master country. Come on Uraguay, Paraguay, Peru the world will support you.
41 redpoll (#) Feb 14th, 2013 - 01:49 pm Report abuse
@40 Ted,
I think almost all of the people posting on these threads who are citizens or residents of Uruguay fully support the FI position of self determination although there was one Guzz, supposedly living in Denmark who supported the RA claim. He no longer posts
Any politician in a democratic country should inform himself on the issues he is voting on and as such it doesnt matter whether he does research or obsreves the situation first hand, whether it be in Cuba, Russia, New Zealand, Korea or the Falkland Islands.
To name call a politician of an independent country a traitor by another country just indicates how little that country understands how a true democracy works
You say Uruguay should have more back bone. Well our options are limited
Where was the international community when we needed them in our constant problems with our nieghbour Argentina?
For instance Argentina vitually imposed a blockade for four years on our country by blocking the international bridges. Yhe situation became so tense that there was fear of an Argentine invasion and our left wing President of the time Vasquez even consulted Bush for military support. And this is just the most serious of many such incidents
And what was the reaction of the international community and our other sSouth American nieghbours? Not our problem mate. Sort it out for yourselves!!!
Most of the Argentine posters on here are trolls and cipayos of La Campora. Those who think otherwise will have thier internet addreeses hacked and and an unwelcome visit from the RG tax authorities or worse
So please dont condemn a whole nation on the opinions of a few idiots. Some of you dont live in SA and its dead easy to put everyone who lives in SA in the same basket for you
Sometimes I get the impression from some of the more virulent posts that the only good Argie is a dead Argie, a philosophy which doesnt give much rncouragement to those in Argentina opposed to the present governments policies and actions
42 UncleTed (#) Feb 14th, 2013 - 02:54 pm Report abuse
@41 I fully accept your points and the realities of living next door to bad neighbours. I think you do confirm my point that our view outside of SA of countries inside of SA is wrongly tainted. I had indeed had them all in 'the same basket' until meeting my wonderful Uraguay holiday friends.
Everything we see about SA is so negative, largely promalgated by Argentina I suspect. All this solidarity claimed over something so wrong is hard to comprehend.
All SA seems to tip toe around Argentina's sensibilities, and from afar it seems incredible that no one country will stand up and say, well actually Argentina we think you are wrong. Bit like Oliver Twist had the guts to do.
As you say though, it is easy for us living outside the situation to judge and come to wrong conclusions. Politicians create all these situations, us ordinary folk seem a pretty good lot the world over, we just need the right people in power. Sometimes that means being unpopular with opponants. I do not know whether Mr Trobo is popular in his own country , but from where I am he has conviction and guts, and is no traitor to democracy.
43 reality check (#) Feb 14th, 2013 - 03:02 pm Report abuse
Redpol.
good post. I agree with you, where was the International Community when you needed our support? we ask for yours, but do not seem to want to give anything back in return. You know why, I think the UK government is afraid of upsetting the rest of South America. Personally, I would love to see far better relations with you, Chile, Peru and Brazil on trade, defence and other things.
44 ChrisR (#) Feb 14th, 2013 - 03:15 pm Report abuse
43 reality check

I agree with your sentiments but the incumbent President of Uruguay is the problem.

He is scared shitless by AR and is supported by his wife who seems to have a real grip on what he says.

Famously he quoted that “he had to upset the Queen” when he sided with AR. This guy is affable but ineffective and frankly is an anachronism that Uruguay is saddled with, but only for a little longer we hope.
45 row82 (#) Feb 14th, 2013 - 03:27 pm Report abuse
Do you wish the Falkland Islands to retain their current political status as an Overseas Territory of the United Kingdom? YES or NO

www.facebook.com/questions/477553115645297/

Join the debate on www.facebook.com/Britain1592

Falkland Islands Desire the Right!
46 Benson (#) Feb 14th, 2013 - 05:19 pm Report abuse
“It is treason to the whole of Latinamerica that a lawmaker from Uruguay should attend, as he has publicly stated, a referendum on Malvinas, a territory that belongs to the Argentines”

Wow, that has to be the most arrogant statement I have ever heard.
47 Britishbulldog (#) Feb 14th, 2013 - 06:09 pm Report abuse
Will not one Latin American rid the world of these murdering buffoons. They are on their knees just roll in your tanks and take over the country and share in the spoils.
48 ChrisR (#) Feb 14th, 2013 - 07:12 pm Report abuse
47 Britishbulldog

“just roll in your tanks”

Tanks, tanks! You could do it wit 3 para, 42 Commando and a few motorbikes and sidecars!

LOLs
49 axel arg (#) Feb 14th, 2013 - 07:41 pm Report abuse
A SHAMEFUL DECISION WHICH DOESN'T SORPRISE ANYBODY.
I must recognize that when i read on the news that a member of the opposition from uruguay will travel to the islands to watch the referendum in march, it didn't sorprise in absolut, because all the conservative sectors of the politic from different countries that i have known, have always been sepoys and pro imperialist, thats' why i can't be sorprised for this creeping decision taken by trobo.
If trobo really cared about human rights, he would ask the u. k. to respect the u. n. resolutions and dialogue with argentina, in order to find a solution for this conflict, especially if the u. n. has never invoked the right to self determination for this cause, and has always considered this case like a special colonial situation. Dialoguing with arg. about a posible solution, doesen't implicate a total submision of the sovereignty of the islands to arg., in fact, all the hipocrites who parrot all the time that for arg. there is just one outcome, defend the posture of the islanders, when their govt. manifest that they are disposed to discuss about different issues with arg., but not about the sovereignty, which is the main problem, isn't it pretending just one outcome too?.
50 Joe Bloggs (#) Feb 14th, 2013 - 07:43 pm Report abuse
45
YES!

Internationally supervised and recognised and an excellent question.

I predict no less than 96% and no more than 98% will vote yes.
51 LEPRecon (#) Feb 14th, 2013 - 08:11 pm Report abuse
@49 - axel

Where have you been? Only recently we offered to sit down and talk with your foreign minister, so he threw his teddy out of the pram and walked away.

So the UK and the Falklanders are willing to talk. It is Argentina that is unwilling.

By the way, there are no VALID UN resolutions urging the UK and Argentina to talk.

They were all INVALIDATED on 2 April 1982 by Argentina, when you walked away from the negotiation table in favour of military action.

And that is that. End of story. No need to discuss anything with Argentina because you do not act with good faith.

They only way Argentina can get sovereignty over the Falklands is with the consent of the Falkland Islanders. The UN Charter, and UN Resolution 1514 states this.

So not only did Argentina invade their homes, threaten to murder them, and scatter land mines all over their territory 30 years ago, you have done NOTHING in the past 30 years to attempt to improve relations with the Islanders.

You have threatened them. Ignored them. Sidelined them. Denied that they exist. Placed highly illegal sanctions on them, hoping to starve them out. And if it wasn't for the presence of the British Military, you would've invaded their homes again.

30 years of wasted opportunity. 30 years to prove that you were not like the military junta. 30 years to try and woo the Islanders, and make them want to be a part of Argentina.

For the last 30 years, Argentina has burned with shame, self-pity, and hate.

You started a war. You LOST that war. You refuse to accept you are responsible for the deaths of nearly 1000 people, most of them Argentine.

You say that you believe in human rights, and then completely deny those same rights to the Falkland Islanders.

All you do is spout the same old lies. They are lies. Everyone knows it, even you.

The Falkland Islanders will still be living in peaceful prosperity long after Argentina implodes and ceases to exist, due to its own incompetence and corruption.
52 UncleTed (#) Feb 14th, 2013 - 08:41 pm Report abuse
@51 Wow. That has my vote as an ideal script for Mr Moon and the rest of the UN to give to Argentina. It needsto be said but no one has the balls. What is it about Argentina that no one will upset this psychopathic nation.
Well said Mr LEPRecon.
53 malen (#) Feb 14th, 2013 - 10:35 pm Report abuse
Leperecon we want to talk of soverignity,,,,,,,,,,,where are you when we want to talk of sovereignity..........under a carpet??????we cant find none of uk..............
54 slattzzz (#) Feb 14th, 2013 - 10:52 pm Report abuse
@53 oh Malen you are thick aren't you? Read Leprecons post again, inwardly digest it, understand it and then STFU
55 Musky (#) Feb 14th, 2013 - 11:26 pm Report abuse
@51 Leprecorn
Nicely articulated!
56 ynsere (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 12:45 pm Report abuse
Uruguayan lawmaker Jaime Trobo is a good sort, who doesn't take orders from President Mujica or anyone else. He's paid to consider Uruguayan interests, not Argentina's, and they're not the same.
To be in disagreement with CFK does not make one a traitor to South America.
57 redpoll (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 01:34 pm Report abuse
The duty of the opposition in a democracy is to provide a check on the ruling party in government, not to agree like a lot of sheep with government policy.
A case in point was when our present govt was in opposition was the Filtro case on the extradition to Spain of some Basque terrorists wanted on murder charges. And who led that demo? One Tabare Vasquez
During the 1982 while the Labour opposition party was broadly in support of Thatchers actions, there were quite a few MPs who were not, and indeed some Tory members were lukewarm on the project ot retake the Falklands
At an earlier date one recalls that Lord Halifax, who almost became PM was all for doing a deal with Hitler along with others of his cronies. What did Churchill do? Made the bugger Foriegn Secretary and told him to reject personally all Hitlers offers of peace. That a master of political manoevering at his best
58 axel arg (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 02:03 pm Report abuse
LEPRECOM.
You can't be more mediocre. Your so called proposal of dialogue, is just hipocresy, because your solved cameron had said in different oportunities that the u. k. won't discuss about sovereignty, as long as the islanders prefer remaining under british govt. However, you, and your cameron omit that self determination has never been applied for this cause, like it was for others colonial situations, beside, like it or not, the u. n. has never included the islanders as a third part in this conflict, that's is actualy a hipocrite colonial caprice of the u. k. So, there is nothing to discuss with the govt. from the islands, anyway, it doesn't mean that arg. can't take into account their wishes in order to find a solution for this conflict. In fact, i told you in another comment, about the secret proposal treated between arg. and the u. k. in 1974, that c. f. k. read before the u. n. last year, which refered to a shared sovereighnty, and took into account the wishes of the islanders, and argentina's sovereign rights.
At the same time that many of you accuse arg. of pretending just one outcome, you defend the posture of the govt. from the islands, every time they manifest that they are disposed to discuss about different issues with arg., but not about the sovereignty, which is the main problem, so, for you, there is also just one outcome, however i understand that neather your hipocresy, nor your lack of intellectual honesty won't let you recognize that your side is not acting correctly either.
On the other hand, respecting the invasion ordered by the criminal junta that roled arg. in that moment, i understand that for you it's the best excuse to reject the negotiations, however, if the u. n. has always continued calling both parts of the conflict to resume the negotiations, it should be respected by both, accept it or not, the u. k. is not the owner of the int. right. Beside, beyond the ignorant interpretation that you make, arg. is a democracy since 1983.
59 ynsere (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 06:37 pm Report abuse
axel arg @ 58
Axel, what's the UK got to do with it? Why address them? The article is about a Uruguayan lawmaker who has been insulted by an inconsequential Argentine called Domínguez.
Do you have the slightest inkling why Uruguayans don't like the CFK gov't? It has nothing to do with the British.
60 St.John (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 04:04 am Report abuse
@ 58 axel arg

How do you propose a dialog could unfold?

Argentina: “We want the Falkland Islands, they are ours.”
UK & Falkland Islanders: “We own them, they are ours.”

What can be said next, except “they are ours” “they are ours” “they are ours” “they are ours” “they are ours” “they are ours” “they are ours” “they are ours” “they are ours” “they are ours” “they are ours” “they are ours” “they are ours”?
61 Pete Bog (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 03:34 pm Report abuse
“It is treason to the whole of Latinamerica that a lawmaker from Uruguay should attend, as he has publicly stated, a referendum on Malvinas, a territory that belongs to the Argentines”, said Dominguez.”

=inferiority complex and the fact that Argentina is wrong-otherwise they would not bat an eyelid. If they are confident, and right, the fact that this guy will be an observer is irrelevant.
62 axel arg (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 06:58 pm Report abuse
S.T JOHN.
Beyond your stupid comment, if arg. and the u. k. are called to resume the negotiations, and find a peaceful solution, it should be respected by both nations. As i said in others comments, the strong defence that the u. k., and the govt. from the islands make, respecting the right to self determination for the islanders, is no more than a hipocrite colonial caprice, because although neather the u. k., nor the govt. from the islands want to accept it, the right to self determination has never been applied for this cause, like it was for others colonial situations, beside, this case has always been considered like a special colonial situation by the decolonization committe. In fact, get into the website from the u. n., and you'll see that there is not any resolution which says: application of the right to self determination for the population from the malvinas-falkland islands, like there are for others populations who live in territories considered like non-self governing territories.
On the other hand, c. f. k. said before the u. n in different oportunities that arg. is not asking the u. k. to recognize that the islands are argentine, it just asks the u. k., to dialogue with the country, in order to find a peaceful solution for this conflict. Beside, the secret proposal treated between both nations in 1974, took into account the wishes of the islanders of remaining under british govt., and argentina's sovereign rights, that proposal refered to a shared sovereignty, and it was read by c. f. k. last year before the u. n. It shows that for arg. there is not just one outcome. It is the u. k. the country that refuses to dialogue about it, not arg.
63 St.John (#) Feb 17th, 2013 - 01:33 am Report abuse
@ axel arg

Beyond your stupid comment, how should a dialogue be possible, in particular when the Argentine constitution claims that the only possible outcome is that the Falkland Islands becomes a part of Argentina.

Can you find a UN resolution, which specifically states that Argentina has the right to exist?

Of course there aren't any specific resolution which says: application of the right to self determination for the population from the malvinas-falkland islands. Self-determination is a part of the founding UN charter.

My questions are very clear:

Under the present conditions, how do you propose a dialog could unfold?

What can Argentina offer, which can serve the interest of the Falkland Islanders?
64 axel arg (#) Feb 18th, 2013 - 06:53 pm Report abuse
ST. JOHN.
If the decolonization committe expresses every year that the case must be solved by mean a dialogue between TWO parts, arg. and the u. k., there is nothing to discuss with the islanders. I already said what i think aboutthe defence that the u. k. makes respecting self determination for this case.
The argument of our constitution is irrelevant, because the u. n. has never asked the u. k. to return the islands to arg.
The transitory disposition included in our constitution in the reform of 1994 doesn't represent any impediment in order to dialogue with the u. k. about a fair solution that takes into account the wishes of the islanders, and argentina's sovereign rights.
On the other hand, if i told you that c. f. k. read a proposal before the u. n. last year, which took into account the wish of the islanders of remaining under britihs govt., and argentina's rights, it means that for arg. there is not just outcome, like many hipocrite people in this forum love repeating all the time.
Like it or not, it's the u. k. the one which pretends just one outcome, which is the application of self determination for the islanders, and the renounce of argentina to it's claim for the islands.
65 redpoll (#) Feb 18th, 2013 - 09:29 pm Report abuse
Axel,
You tried invasion in 82 and lost. So why not try civilised means and take the issue to the ICJ? You wont because you know you would lose again in which case Argentina would not recognise the judgement anyway as in the many cases where the ICJ has ruled against you
66 St.John (#) Feb 18th, 2013 - 11:46 pm Report abuse
@64 axel arg

The UN resolutions only requests Argentina and the UK to initiate negociations.

In negociations every and all parties can include whomever they want, in this case especially the Falkland Islanders, re. the UN Charter plus the below and many more UN resolutions.

UN Resolution 2625 (XXV) 24 October 1970

By virtue of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations, all peoples have the right freely to determine, without external interference, their political status and to pursue their economic, social and cultural development, and every State has the duty to respect this right in accordance with the provisions of the Charter....

Every State has the duty to promote, through joint and separate action, realization of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, in accordance with the provisions of the Charter, and to render assistance to the United Nations in carrying out the reponsibilities entrusted to it by the Charter regarding the implementation of the principle, ...

The establishment of a sovereign and independent State, the free association, or integration with an independent State or the emergence into any other political status freely determined by a people constitute modes of implementing the right of self-determination by that people.

www.unoosa.org/pdf/gares/ARES_25_2625E.pdf

The argument of the Argentine constitution is NOT irrelevant, as a result of this inclusion the only thing an Argentine delegation can do and say is “they are ours” = negotiation impossible as there is no way around the constitution, unless it is amended.

You did NOT answer my questions:

Under the present conditions, how do you propose a dialog could unfold?

What can Argentina offer, which can serve the interest of the Falkland Islanders?
67 axel arg (#) Feb 21st, 2013 - 04:04 pm Report abuse
S. T JOHN. REDPOLL.
S. T. JOHN: Everybody have right to think whatever they want, however, there is something much more important than our opinions, i mean the facts, and the show that beyond the distortions that many of you usually make respecting the u. n.'s behaviour, the islanders have never been included as a third part in this conflict, in fact, all the resolutions just call for a bilateral dialogue.
On the other hand, there is not any resolution which invokes the right to self determination for this case, like there are for others colonial situations.
Respecting our constitution, i won't discuss wit you about it again, because this is evident that you don't want to understand it.
Regarding your question, i can't say so much about it, because i am not the chancellour from this country, i just know what i told you in my others comments, respecting the proposal read by c. f. k. That's the only one answer i can give you.
REDPOLL: I agree absolutly with your proposal, but this is evident that you ignore that between 1884-1888. arg. suggested taking the case to an arbitration, which was rejected by the u. k. On the other hand, in 1947, the u. k. manifested arg. that it would be disposed to take he question of the south georgia and sandwich to the i. c. j., bu it didn't include the malvinas in the proposal. After that year, none of the two countries has never proposed again to take the question to the arbitration. So, if you want to make a serious analysis of your proposal, you should take into account these facts too, instead of making such a mediocre analysis.
68 redpoll (#) Feb 21st, 2013 - 07:42 pm Report abuse
Axel, I am sorry you consider my post mediocre. Some of what you post is not even that
1884? Dont you realise that the world has moved on from that date nearly 130 years ago? Even then the Falklanders were well established in thier home. 1947? Possibly within the vestiges of living memory but fading fast. The unprovoked invasion of a hostilestate on a peaceful people in 1982? Still very much alive
An answer might be for the Falands Islands Government , which of course Argentina says doesnt exist, to take the case to the ICJ on thier own
They have evidently discarded that idea as Argentina has never accepted any decision from the ICJ tha has ruled against them
69 St.John (#) Feb 21st, 2013 - 10:00 pm Report abuse
axel arg

you don't seem to understand what a constitution is and fail to understand that the right to self-determination is part of the UN Charter, aka the UN constitution.

As for my questions:

1. Under the present conditions, how do you propose a dialog could unfold?

2. What can Argentina offer, which can serve the interest of the Falkland Islanders?

you obviously don't have any idea, but hide behind your not beeing “the chancellour from this country”.

End of story.

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