Thursday, February 14th 2013 - 23:35 UTC

Fitch Ratings downgrades Argentina and Venezuela prospects for 2013

Fitch ratings has lowered Argentina, Venezuela and El Salvador credit and growth prospects to negative, while for the rest of Latinamerica the situation remains stable, according to a seminar in Frankfort, on “Latinamerica opportunities and challenges”.

Shelly Shetty said Mexico and Brazil are forecasted to expand 3.5% and 4%

“Weak external conditions, stable prices for commodities and the lack of significant reforms can possibly subtract value in 2013 to the rapid solvency improvements registered in Latinamerica until now”, says the Fitch conclusion.

Fitch also believes that “external uncertainties could impact the solvency of countries with limited backup and weak political frameworks”, although it estimates the region’s GDP to expand 3.7% this year compared to 2.8% in 2012.

The forecast is highly influenced by an expected sprint from the Brazilian economy which is Latinamerica’s largest although there are also risks in the current recovery.

Growth will be spurred by domestic demand in a scenario of weak global growth while macroeconomic stability will be speared by moderate inflation rates in most countries.

The head of Fitch’s Latinamerican sovereign debt department Shelly Shetty anticipated Mexico and Brazil are forecasted to expand 3.5% and 4%. Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Panama, Peru, Surinam and Uruguay are going to have a performance above the region’s average of 3.7%, with Panama leading.

However Argentina, El Salvador, Jamaica and Venezuela will be growing below the region’s average of 3.7%.

The main outside risks for the region’s growth and credit prospects include the US fiscal gap, intensification of the Euro zone debt crisis and faster economic deceleration than expected in China.

“All these factors could weaken external demand and the prices of commodities more than expected” warned Fitch Ratings, which anticipated that fiscal consolidation in 2013 will be slower since there will only be a moderate fall of public debt in most countries of the region.

Chile and Peru are the countries better positioned to implement fiscal stimuli to compensate for potential external impacts.

Fitch estimates that international reserves in the region increased to 812 billion dollars from 494 billion in 2008 and also anticipated political continuity in Chile and Ecuador following parliamentary and presidential elections.

Finally it considers the consolidation of democracies in the region has reduced the risks linked to violent changes of regime. “The expansion of the middle class and a continuous fall in income inequality in the region should support political and social stability in the future”.
 

80 comments Feed

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1 Rufus (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 12:02 am Report abuse
Well, the good news is that they can't downgrade Argentina's credit rating by more than a couple of points down their scale.

The bad news is that there are only two points below their current score to drop to.

They were rated CC (highly vulnerable, very speculative bonds), there's only C ( highly vulnerable, perhaps in bankruptcy or in arrears but still continuing to pay out on obligations) and D (has defaulted on obligations and Fitch believes that it will generally default on most or all obligations) left.
2 andy65 (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 12:08 am Report abuse
I just love reading this news about Argentina really turns me on LOL.
3 surfer (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 12:35 am Report abuse
Just going from 'junk' to 'utter rubbish'. May as well burn money rather than get involved with either of these pirate states.
4 briton (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 12:45 am Report abuse
ah ??
But according the great argie bloggers its doing fine thank you.

Perhaps they should have gone to speck savers ??

[ opticians to you Argies ]
5 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 01:52 am Report abuse
Argentina has more credibility than Fitch. Simple as that.
6 wts (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 01:59 am
Comment removed by the editor.
7 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 02:29 am Report abuse
@5 Arifu

“Argentina has more credibility than Fitch. Simple as that.”

Sure it does. What else are you allowed to say?

Never mind, the UK is now working to block any international lending organisations from loaning anything to AR.

I'm waiting for THINK and his side-kick, Colonel Blink, to give us their agreed-upon opinion.
8 Marcos Alejandro (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 02:51 am Report abuse
“However Argentina, El Salvador, Jamaica and Venezuela will be growing below the region’s average of 3.7%”

If we compare it to the negative grow and triple dip recession of UK, we are not doing that bad.
9 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 03:53 am Report abuse
@08 Marcos
“If we compare it to the negative grow and triple dip recession of UK, we are not doing that bad”

It will be very hard on the Argentine poor and Middle classes if your economy crashes. Not wanting to see that, but who would lend money to Argentina knowing that it will not help because CFK and her cronies will just pocket that, too. Before they skip out to NYC or a safe asylum.

SA Growth:
”Finally it considers the consolidation of democracies in the region has reduced the risks linked to violent changes of regime. “The expansion of the middle class and a continuous fall in income inequality in the region should support political and social stability in the future”.

It looks like your projected growth figures have not taken into account the pressure on the Middle Class of Argentina, and the upcoming instability of CFK's government.
Looks like there is an upcoming regime change. Investment money will be tight, Falklands will conclude their Referendum in March, inflaming the masses, but will that be enough to distract from the Labour protests against CFK for the same month???

Referendum - about 3 weeks, or 21 Days away.
10 Anglotino (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 04:57 am Report abuse
Fitch reckon Brazil will expand 4%!

WTF they really are out of touch.

And with growth below the regional average, I see that the voters in Venezuela and Argentina are getting exactly what they asked for!
11 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 05:53 am Report abuse
@Anglotino
“Fitch reckon Brazil will expand 4%!

WTF they really are out of touch.”

Anglotino, It does seem optimistic doesn't it?

And if Brazil is to grow at 4%, the average growth at 3.7%, then Argentina on last place, may well be far below that figure.

Fitch is clearly assuming that the growth will be achieved because the there is no expected regime change, a strong middle class, and a stable certain governance.

We know better, Argentina has none of these things!
12 Tobers (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 06:28 am Report abuse
@8
If inflation is out of control then growth rate, which is far far lower anyway, doesn't mean Bo Diddly. Is your salary rising in line with inflation? Whats Argentina's growth rate and inflation relative to each other?

The economy isnt growing in the UK but inflation level is something Argentina could only dream of. The pound's value isn't halving every 2- 3 years to the dollar.

You honestly feel confident about where your economy is at and is heading?
13 Gordo1 (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 07:59 am Report abuse
“Argentina has more credibility than Fitch. Simple as that.” Joke of the day!

“If we compare it to the negative grow and triple dip recession of UK, we are not doing that bad.” Triple dip? Where did that snippet come from?
14 Idlehands (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 09:48 am Report abuse
Who do we believe:

www.buenosairesherald.com/article/124181/supermarkets-deny-rumours-of-food-shortage

????????????
15 ElaineB (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 10:23 am Report abuse
I think the ratings agencies have lost some credibility and are not immune to political pressure. That said, they still have an effect on the financial markets, especially the numnuts working in the financial markets who have no idea what they are doing and rely heavily on this kind of information. There are a lot of them.

Argentina really does deserve a low rating. It is going to crash and the ratings agencies have to warn investors. They have messed up too many times before.
16 CaptainSilver (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 10:30 am Report abuse
Average Rgland income $9500 credit rating CCC

Average UK income $41000 credit rating AAA

With Rglands huge growth of 3% Rgland has a long way to go

Anyway Rgland is facing imminent financial collapse which is precisely why there are all those Malvinas posters plastered everywhere.
17 Conqueror (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 02:13 pm Report abuse
@5 Just doesn't have any credit!
@8 Fortunately, the UK doesn't have negative growth or a triple dip recession. You must stop referring to things that people have been concerned about as things that have actually happened. Still, argies like to fool themselves.
18 troy.tempest1 (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 02:29 pm Report abuse
@ 11
look who is talking.....
19 Idlehands (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 02:40 pm Report abuse
11 Troy Tempest

You will notice from post 18 above that you are being impersonated. Even worse is the racial hatred he is posting in your name on this thread:

en.mercopress.com/2013/02/13/obama-challenges-congress-to-take-a-vote-on-a-package-of-progressive-reforms#comments

I'd get on to the mods if I were you.
20 Pirate Love (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 03:07 pm Report abuse
Just when you thought argentinas ratings couldnt get any lower...who would of guessed :), more damage please!!
21 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 03:27 pm Report abuse
@ IDLE HANDS

Thank you very much for bringing this to my attention.

You are quite correct, it IS an imposter - most likely “Sussie” of a thousand faces.

I have indeed contacted the moderators to disregard posts from me that are not under my account email ID

As a general statement to all users, please disregard anti-British, racist or vulgar statements by my Dopplegangers.

I HAVE ONLY ONE ACCOUNT AND ONE USER NAME: “Troy Tempest”

ALL OTHER VARIATIONS ARE IMPOSTERS.

Thanks for your understanding.
22 yankeeboy (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 03:55 pm Report abuse
Oh for Pete's sake, that stupid Marxist Kicillof is going to put the peso on 3 different exchange rates.
Do these idiots know anything about history or economics?
OMG just looks to Venezuela, Chavez did that a few years ago and they HAVE TO TOILET PAPER IN CARACAS!
Gads they are doomed
23 Welsh Wizard (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 04:53 pm Report abuse
@22

So, exchange rate for people will be close to the blue rate, commercial will be just over 5 and will there be a special one just for exports at about 3? Soooo stupid. All that will happen is that the people's rate will represent the actual cost of funding and this will impact all businesses (as I'm sure the clamp will stay as it is). once they do this then you'll have the clamp, the people's rate and the commercial rate. You'll then start having the blkue rate again over and above the people's rate. They are literally just copying everything that Chavez does but can't explain why...
24 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 07:12 pm Report abuse
@21

I want to send you hearty congratulations yankeeboy, on achieving the almost unhuman feat of going for like two weeks without a mass shooting!!! That is just simply wondrous we around the world are awe stricken by such achievement. Felicitations.
25 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 07:26 pm Report abuse
@24 ARIFU

Another attempt at distraction and deflection by a Troll

Good try - NOT!!

How about talking about your perspective of where Argentina will go economically - that would be on-topic.
26 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 07:41 pm Report abuse
Mendoza is doing fine, 11 years of GDP growth for the province, at higher rates than the rest of the country. Sure things are a “bit” softer, but no projects have been cancelled in the city, in fact more premium cafes are opening up... Bonafide, Havanna, Starbucks, all three opening more shops. Must be because Mendozans are scrapping by with $25 sips.

www.losandes.com.ar/notas/2013/2/4/cafes-negocio-expansion-mendoza-694785.asp
27 yankeeboy (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 07:47 pm Report abuse
Just what Argentina needs more cafes for lazy Rgs to hang out in instead of working.
Bravo.
Psst the projects haven't stopped yet because the IDB/WB $ is still flowing but it won't be soon enough.
28 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 08:04 pm Report abuse
It is a trade off, living vs working. You decide to live to work. Fine.

That is why in Europe and North America people hit 50 and enter a panic that they are running out of time and realize they've done nothing to enjoy life. They become “world travellers” (if they are rich), or buy a convertible or bike to pretend they are 20 again. The women get cougar fever and all kinds of plastic jobs...

Gosh what a psychologically imbalanced culture.
29 yankeeboy (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 08:17 pm Report abuse
Hmm I thought Argentina had the most psychologists and plastic surgeons per capita? Am I wrong?
All you have to do is look at Susana Gimenez, Moira Casan or the worst of the worst CFK to see old hags trying to look like their still somewhere in their 50s.
Not even with lots of vaseline on the lens.
Yeah dumb Americans inventing stuff, opening factories, innovating day and night. Yeah you're right maybe we should give it all up to hang out in cafe our whole life and read a book, reek of cigarette smoke and have brown teeth like in Ar-gentians.
No thanks.
Psst only losers do that.
30 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 08:22 pm Report abuse
@29

Not possible to have the most shrinks and stitchers PER CAPITA if you are the poorest nation with millions in the streets.

“innovating day and night”

I've never rendered judgement on this choice. You like doing that, I frankly respect it. But it still leads to the fact that you lead rather empty lives that is admitted by most Europeans and Americans, of course your pride to seem “perfect” here in front of argies prevents you from finding fault...

Funny how you have NEVER criticized your country for anything. It is not a sign of confidence.
31 yankeeboy (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 08:29 pm Report abuse
Funny how you have NEVER criticized your country for anything. It is not a sign of confidence

sure you meant to say that?
Looking in the mirror?
32 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 08:32 pm Report abuse
The difference is I do it because me and my country are under constant attack by the rest of you, do you honestly believe I would give you any interstice?

What is your excuse? You are surrounded by those who adulate your country, and still you don't. You have no excuse.

Anyway, thank you for your non-denial denial.
33 yankeeboy (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 08:51 pm Report abuse
With all of those shrinks one would think you'd have the NPD and the Persecution/Paranoia delusions worked out by now.

I know I live in the greatest country in the world. I can say with great affirmation I will never live out side of the USA ever again.

My biggest problem is trying to figure out if I want a quiet dinner with friends tonight or something a bit more lively. It is cold and I have this great French Restaurant near me with fireplaces but alas it is quiet. Decisions Decisions

I am going for a swim maybe that will help me make up my mind.
34 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 10:12 pm Report abuse
@Arifu

What is “Havanna”?

Coffee shop, restaurant, bistro?

BTW, congratulations, we're way off topic.

Are those shopping malls still being built in Medoza, the ones you sent us pictures of - the developer's photoshop proposals??
35 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 01:33 am Report abuse
Of course, La Barraca Mall is going on as planned.

The Palmares mall expansion is going on and now there is apparently a good chance Hard Rock Cafe will land, that was unexpected.

www.diariouno.com.ar/economia/Hard-Rock-proyecta-abrir-una-sucursal-en-Palmares-20121224-0003.html

If this goes down it just confirms Mendoza has way surpassed Cordoba and Rosario, bigger cities by at least 50%, in supermarkets, malls, freeways, metro lines, cafes, etc.
36 yankeeboy (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 01:53 am Report abuse
35. Do you think Mendoza has “made it” with a nice American company Hard Rock?
Figures.
I wonder if they import the beef because RG hamburgers (paty) are groooossss
37 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 01:57 am Report abuse
Nope, I just gave that example since none of you heard of Havanna or Bonafide when I mentioned them aboce, since of course, none of you have been in Argentina in your entire lives.

Not that it needed any confirmation that you were all lying all this time, but your constant attempts at spite do you all in.
38 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 02:09 am Report abuse
@37

“since of course, none of you have been in Argentina in your entire lives.”

Ummm, actually many have, and of course, we know you've never been OUT of Argentina!!

So who has a truer perspective of the world?

That is a rhetorical question. Not interested in your personal provincial outlook.
39 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 02:15 am Report abuse
@39

Thank you for making my point. How do you know I have never left Argentina? I HAVE SAID SO. Why? I am truthful and honorable.

Stark contrast to all of you, who don't know what Havanna is, which is actually known all over the Americas especially Latin America but also elsewhere including Europe for alfajores and chocolate. If you don't know that, then you are utter fools and flagitious liars claiming to know anything about Argentina. Simple really.

You people dig your own graves.
40 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 03:11 am Report abuse
Havanna is only significant to you because your 'world' is a very small one.

You probably expect us to know your mother as well - why wouldn't we? To you, she is very tall and does many important things.

:-D
41 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 03:19 am Report abuse
@41

Poor deluded nincompoop, to try to foist such an artless attempt at deflection.

The fact is that anyone that wants to pretend even a very cursory, superficial knowledge of Argentina knows about Havanna, one of the first things they probably learn since they either see it in-country, or are given some sort of gift inv0lving their products.

The fact you don't know proves you are utterly useless in this website and thoroughly unqualified to talk about Argentina, even write the name of the country.

That's your sad status, officially.
42 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 06:21 am Report abuse
@41 n-poop

“@41

Poor deluded nincompoop, to try to foist such an artless attempt at deflection.”

Hey “nincompoop” - it's YOU at '41'
LOL!!

@41 n-poop

“The fact is that anyone that wants to pretend even a very cursory, superficial knowledge of Argentina knows about Havanna, one of the first things they probably learn since they either see it in-country, or are given some sort of gift inv0lving their products.

The fact you don't know proves you are utterly useless in this website and thoroughly unqualified to talk about Argentina, even write the name of the country. ”

The rest of the world does NOT revolve around Havanna, a coffee shop, nor does it revolve around Argentina. In fact, less so and less so.

Havanna is NOT worldwide, your whole world maybe, but only Spain outside of SA.
You might not know that, since you've never been out of Argentina (I take your word for that), maybe never out of Mendoza, either?
You are woefully ignorant of anything outside of your own backyard. Yet, you feel free to comment on my country or Britain, or the Falklands.

I have never been to Argentina, nor have I ever “pretended to”.
I have however, been to Havana, the place your coffee shop is named for, Mexico, Peru, Italy, and Spain, as far as Latin countries go.

Can you say the same? No.
Could I care less? No, the world does not revolve around YOU, either, LOL!!

As to this website, it is not an exclusively 'Argentinian' site. I thought at one time I would like to visit Argentina - I know better now.

I was drawn to this site by my interest in the Falklands. Now, I am on here responding to deluded propagandists like you - paranoid, ignorant, racists, with a persecution complex.
You know nothing of the world and you display your childishness and foolishness for all the international posters to see.
What I've learnt on this site of your history, your politics, and your governing, I don't like.

It's been very educational, I will admit.

Nobody can teach you anything.
43 Juanaco (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 12:18 pm Report abuse
Been to argentina many times since 1978 (started with World Cup visit) Beautiful country friendly hospitable natives. Unfortunately can never get their shit together politically or economically. They have a high literacy rate I believe with many professionals but incapable of producing a leader of vision or one able to stand above the endemic corruption. It's a great shame. The day they get their act together they will be a great country. But where is such a leader? Will one ever have the courage to step forth to destroy the culture of corruption and lead el pueblo to the promised land? I've been waiting and watching for 35 years. U can do it argies! Show us!
44 yankeeboy (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 12:34 pm Report abuse
Toby, You think Havanna is important because you have never been anywhere, frankly I like the coffee there but I think alfajores are nasty.

It is the weird way that Argentinians try to make themselves equivalent to 1st World countries, we have starbucks and then they'll say, well we have Havanna, which is nothing like starbucks and the whole chain of them most likely makes less than one of the Starbucks stores in NYC.

You are taught (brainwashed) that Argentina has everything the USA has only it is better and nicer and RGs will keep up that fantasy until they actually come here.
My BA real estate agent came over to me while I was on a balcony looking at the apt I eventually took, I was looking at the view which was the Obelisco, French Ambassadors Residence and RdP from my bedroom. He said, “just like NYC huh?” all proud and puffed up, my response was you've obviously never been there. Not to say the view wasn't perfectly lovely, it was, it just BA is a poor, dirty and very 3rd world version of NYC.
I took an RG friend to NYC for his 1st time and his only response was “they have no idea”.
45 ElaineB (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 12:55 pm Report abuse
I am confused that TTT thinks that Havanna defines Argentina. It is just a coffee shop. Nice coffee but that's all. I used to have my morning coffee in the one on the corner of Oro and Libertador, near to my apartment.

TTT, you always slip up by thinking the arrival of American chains is the height of sophistication. (The first Hard Rock cafe was opened in London by two Americans). It reminds me of a conversation I had with a pal during an early visit to Argentina. She, an Argentine, wanted to go to Starbucks for coffee whereas I argued that the local coffee shop was better. You are served, the coffee is good, it's cheaper and usually includes a biscuit. Starbucks always had a queue out of the door. But, she argued, it was better to be seen in Starbucks. LOL. I have also heard storied of people keeping their Starbucks takeaway cups to refill at home.

I am very keen to see all this new development when I get back to Mendoza. I hoped they haven't ruined it by trying to be something they are not.
46 Anglotino (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 02:27 pm Report abuse
ElaineB. I get what you mean by Starbucks. Starbucks foray into Australia was an utter failure.

It will be telling if it is successful in Mendoza as the existence of a “sophisticated” cafe culture isn't compatible with their business model.

knowledge.asb.unsw.edu.au/article.cfm?articleid=1192
www.smh.com.au/business/starbucks-closes-61-shops-cuts-700-jobs-20080729-3mt1.html
47 yankeeboy (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 03:02 pm Report abuse
Starbucks is like McDonalds it's kinda coffee like McDs is kinda food and neither react well with my digestive tract.
I do love the fact they're everywhere though and you can always expect a clean bathroom!
I also love the fact that second by second the USA extracts $ from just about every country in the world. Very few countries can say that and I don't see it changing anytime in my lifetime.

On Hard Rock, Mendoza is not on their coming soon map so don't get your hopes too high Toby. Maybe it is hard Roque and you read it wrong.
48 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 04:20 pm Report abuse
@47yankeeboy

“On Hard Rock, Mendoza is not on their coming soon map so don't get your hopes too high Toby. Maybe it is hard Roque and you read it wrong.”

So, in his desperation to demonstrate Argentina's importance, sophisticated culture, and cosmopolitan lifestyle, TTT/Arifu brags that an 'iconic' American restaurant is coming soon, to a mall near him??

And now it looks like he was lying???? How funny!

He knowledge of the 'world' is bounded by Mendoza.

Doesn't La Campora Juvenil have school trips to the Capital, B.A., for children like him?
49 yankeeboy (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 04:38 pm Report abuse
He falls for propaganda all the time. Probably what happened is the people who run Hard Rock in BA were visiting Mendoza and then through rumor or outright lies it morphed into a new american company is opening a restaurant...see we are relevant.

Rumor is that Fallabella ( from Chile) , the only department store chain in the country, is going to pull out. I hope they weren't the new anchor for the fantasy mall they're talking about building in Mendoza.

Argentinians love love love to make huge announcements of someone sometime maybe opening something/building something in their country. Only to never see anything come to fruition.
How many times have they announced a new tunnel to Chile, trains to Chile, Bullet Trains to Rosario blah blah blah they can't even finish a hwy exit in BA for the last 25 yrs. Or keep the electricity on in their major cities.
Just about every Int'l company is for sale in Arg with no buyers. At some point they will just close and write off the investment, Probably about the same time Arg leaves the ICSID.
50 ElaineB (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 05:44 pm Report abuse
For someone so anti-capitalist, I am surprised TTT is so in favour of huge malls and brands.
51 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 05:57 pm Report abuse
You people are trully mentally ill. I am not joking here. Read your own emotionally twisted, intellectually asinine replies to what I said...

Let's remember the only thing I said was “anyone with any pretension of knowing Argentina knows about Havanna”.

For those of us reading that like me have some mental sanity, note how that statement:

a) casts no judgement WHATSOEVER on the importance of Havanna in the world
b) makes no veredict on the quality of their products.

Again

“anyone with any pretension of knowing Argentina knows about Havanna”.

That's it. Now lets look at the tortured and disjointed “replies” to such a simple, neutral, innocuous statement of general fact:

“The rest of the world does NOT revolve around Havanna, a coffee shop, nor does it revolve around Argentina. In fact, less so and less so. Havanna is NOT worldwide, your whole world maybe, but only Spain outside of SA.”

Note how my simple statement elicited such an over-the-top “response”.

Next patient:

“Toby, You think Havanna is important because you have never been anywhere, frankly I like the coffee there but I think alfajores are nasty.
It is the weird way that Argentinians try to make themselves equivalent to 1st World countries, we have starbucks and then they'll say, well we have Havanna, which is nothing like starbucks and the whole chain of them most likely makes less than one of the Starbucks stores in NYC.”

Again, my clearly zero-sum statement viscerally educed such a disproportionate, aggrandizing, and jingoistic response. No one here gives a flying fuck of the USA in this topic, and this goes on a multi-paragraph rodomontade (and btw, Havanna is far older than Starbucks, so his whole juvenile premise therein so poorly expounded becomes another embarrassing blunder in his long history of mental cramps).

Ditto @45. Let's remember why I mentioned these chains: these “world travellers” do not know what Havanna is! (I mentioned them 1st).

And look at their replies. Nuff said.
52 yankeeboy (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 06:16 pm Report abuse
You always get your panties in a knot and start deflecting when your original posts are easily refuted.
I think it is funny
and the main reason I post here
you make my day
53 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 06:24 pm Report abuse
Read your own reply at @44... It is so embarrassing I feel sorry for you.

All I said is anyone that has any travels to Argentina has to have heard of Havanna. I didn't say anything about their products, or about Havanna in grand scheme of the world.

And look at your answers... almost using the entire 2000 characters. It's quite simply humiliating. I intellectually took all of you apart @51, and now you are crying through the screen (where is the deflection you cry about @52).

LOL, you not only have no response, you don't even make any sense anymore. The emotional overload has suppressed what little rationalism that occasionally bubbled up in your prolix yet non-sensical ramblings.
54 ElaineB (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 06:26 pm Report abuse
TTT, you are always so defensive.

What kind of a twit are you when your only argument is 'I said it first'. And why does it irk you so much that my work takes me all over the world? Let alone my personal travel.

When I leave Mendoza I can leave a note for you to collect at a location I shall give you. Then you can believe I really do travel in Argentina. I would even say I have seen far more of your country than you have.

Just calm down.
55 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 06:34 pm Report abuse
@54

“Defensive” is the ridiculous, self-aggrandizing, and utterly laughable palavering from 42-50 in “response” to my simple statement @41... Where again, I made no judgements on Havanna in the world, NYC, psychology, their products, nor any of the other nonsense that spewed from you poor foreigners... which was all a crystalline exercise in juvenile self-seeking superiority (“oh, look at the country bumpkin” we are so superior to him, we come from NYC, London, etc). It reveals such a lack of self-esteem it is quite frankly pitiful.

So please, don't self-project. I only said that Havanna is something anyone coming to Argentina will probably run across, and if not, one must doubt their “claims” of knowing much of anything. After I said that, you all went into your psychological Jeremiads about Argentines, a favorite past-time of you all.

Simply embarrassing for you.
56 yankeeboy (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 06:43 pm Report abuse
YI think it is hilarious all we did was point out some glaring issues you have and you get all flustered.
Calm down

I was chatting with a Uruguayan friend last night that left Argentina about the same time I did. He has not been back since though. He was shocked at how dirty and broken-down everything looks now. He was supposed to spend 10 days in Argentina and left after 3.
Pretty telling.
BTW any comment on the teacher strike? A 22% raise would be astronomical in any other parts of the world, well maybe not Venezuela or Zimbabwe....
57 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 06:51 pm Report abuse
No one is flustered, except you, because you keep telling people to “calm down” for some reason. No doubt you think everyone here is posting in the same state as you. I'm having sushi and rice cake, drinking a paso de los toros on a beautiful day.

Keep your “stories” coming yankee... they keep adding cement to your reputation as a bitter, outrageously insecure cretin. Don't stop on my account. More stories about how Argentina is so awful please... it paints you in such a confident light.
58 yankeeboy (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 07:06 pm Report abuse
The rice they use for Sushi has a very weird texture in Argentina I guess they can't get proper Sushi rice.
Anyway I am not the one who compares Argentina to USA you do all the time.
BTW was it the Hard Roque you saw?
59 ElaineB (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 07:08 pm Report abuse
TTT, you said to me ”Let's remember why I mentioned these chains: these “world travellers” do not know what Havanna is! (I mentioned them 1st). ” I am a world traveller and have spent a considerable amount of time in Argentina. I know the brand 'Havanna' and used their outlets. I actually prefer them to Starbucks.

You have huge issues with inferiority and lack of self-esteem. It drips off your posts.

Enjoy your food and fizzy drink.
60 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 07:11 pm Report abuse
@58

OMG you are so predictable!! I knew that if I posted what I was eating you were going to disparage Argentina with it!

Sad, sad, sad... the more you do it though, the more your desperation shine through. hahahaha... You are my pavlovian experiment.
61 yankeeboy (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 07:33 pm Report abuse
How is that disparaging Argentina? touchy touchy

I'm sure you are fine with the rice , I am just pointing out that you don't know any better. I don't like it to me (someone who knows better) it has a weird texture.
When you come here you'll see the difference until then I will point it out to you.
62 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 07:43 pm Report abuse
@61

Because that is your objective as a certified loser with airs of superiority. Simple really.

@59

Let's remind everyone what your ORIGINAL response to my very neutral statement was:

“I am confused that TTT thinks that Havanna defines Argentina. It is just a coffee shop. Nice coffee but that's all. I used to have my morning coffee in the one on the corner of Oro and Libertador, near to my apartment.”

Where did I say Havanna defines Argentina?? I simply said they are kinda of all over the place either in stores, or products at supermarkets and kiosks, how is that saying it “defines” in any abstract way? It is just a noticeable feature.

YOU took that statement and over-analyzed it to the point
you went on a ramble about Argentines hanging out
at starbucks for “status”... Talk about totally getting off
the rails due to my very neutral, inofensive comment!!

And the fact is, you are wrong too. And for a world traveller
you are wrong A LOT. Have you been to the other countries
in Latin America? They are choaking in McDonalds, KFC,
Pizza Hut, and all other others. Compare that to Argentina
where McDonalds is the only one somewhat ubiquitous
(and not all over the country), and much less so Burger King
and Subway. The rest ALL FAILED spectacularly (KFC, Pizza Hut,
Taco Bell, Dominos). If we were a culture that just
fawned for Americanism, we would do it with all.

The only reason McDonalds was succesful is because they
offered a product no one else did at their time of arrival.
Starbucks is still questionable whether they will make it or not.

Again, compare that to the rest of Latin America, or even
Europe, and certainly the other anglo nations. The UK
imitates EVERYTHING from the USA. If the yanks decide
farting is hip, you think is hip. Pretty bad...

Rap is big in all of Latin America and Europe. It is but a very
minor fringe style in Argentina. US country music is big
in the caribbean, and other places... no one knows about it
in Argentina.
63 yankeeboy (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 08:06 pm Report abuse
I think most of those franchises pulled out during the last hyperinflation period not because they weren't successful.
You are probably right about Starbucks too. I don't think it will last, 1 because they can't import what they need and 2 the coming hyperinflation will kill it.
But hyperinflation is going to kill a lot more than the USA branded businesses.
I hear most of them are for sale with no buyers.
64 Ayayay (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 08:12 pm Report abuse
Lady Gaga got drooled on, all over, in Argentina. Just saying :)
65 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 08:29 pm Report abuse
@63

You are the gift that keeps on giving... the failed because they suck, and they were American and they sucked... that hurts your so friable pride huh?

LOL... I've never met such a defensive jingoist in my life. Blaming everything and anything if he feels the “greatness” of his country is somehow questioned or slighted (which in this case is not even the point).

KFC, Taco Bell, and Pizza Hut all sell cheaper products than McDonalds, they failed because fried chicken, bad mexican imitations, and plastic pizza are not to our tastes, and they had no chance competing with local rotisseries and pizza places. You just weren't good enough, don't get mad yankeebroke and don't blame hyperinflation.

All those companies are in places that have experience war, famine, and revolution, and thrived, because people like them. They are present in dirt poor nations like in Central America and Africa. Your frantic attempts of finding reasons other than mediocrity of product (because in your fragile state you equate it to dissing the USA), are enlightening and didactic.

Like I said, keep it up. lol.
66 ElaineB (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 08:38 pm Report abuse
Yes, TTT, I have been to other Latin American countries.

TGI Fridays has a few restaurants in Argentina I seem to remember, but maybe only in BsAs (outside TTT's world) and Sushi Club (Canadian) was in several locations, even Bariloche. But I don't recall many others, not that I tend to eat in chain restaurants. I remember seeing a Hard Rock Cafe in BsAs too. I remember because I ate at a restaurant nearby and had a reasonable meal but when I went downstairs to use the bathrooms I saw cockroaches running around. : ) I skipped out of there pretty quickly.

Revisiting Havannagate. You stated that world travellers should know the Havanna brand and I was telling you that as a world traveller, I do.

It is true that a lot of successful US and UK acts go to Argentina and are generally sold out stadium concerts, but only in BsAs (not in TTT's world). They also sell out in Chile. I actually think they charge outrageous prices in developing countries, verging on criminal, but the locals seem happy to spend their salary on a ticket.

I was staying in a hotel with the Black Eyed Peas in Santiago and they had played Buenos Aires on the tour.
67 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 08:38 pm Report abuse
@TTT
Your original statement @24, was an unsolicited off-topic jibe at Yankeeboy regarding (the lack of) random shootings in the USA.

When it was pointed out that you were off-topic and you were asked to comment on the subject of the article, you got all defensive, and you started bragging that Mendoza was booming with prestige chain coffee shops and a HardRock Cafe in the new Mall.
“I gave that example since none of you heard of Havanna or Bonafide when I mentioned them aboce, since of course, none of you have been in Argentina in your entire lives.”
It was pointed out to you that many Brits and Yank posters had lived or travelled in Argentina, and that Havanna was not important.

Your reply,
”“The fact is that anyone that wants to pretend even a very cursory, superficial knowledge of Argentina knows about Havanna, one of the first things they probably learn since they either see it in-country, or are given some sort of gift inv0lving their products.

The fact you don't know proves you are utterly useless in this website and thoroughly unqualified to talk about Argentina, even write the name of the country. ”

Your premise that we were unqualified to comment on Argentina, because we had not been there!! and were out of touch with Argentine popular 'culture', was countered with my reply that YOU had never left Mendoza, yet you felt qualified to comment on Canada, USA, UK, the Falklands and their cultures.
What an irony!!

To illustrate who is better qualified to comment on different cultures, we further contrasted your geocentric perspective of the world with our travels and first hand experiences.

Now we are enduring your childish rants because we have exposed your pitifully limited perspective and shown your bragging and wishful thinking for what it is.

Sad boy.

Another fizzy pop??
68 yankeeboy (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 08:41 pm Report abuse
Sure, the Rg palete is very refined

If that is what you want to believe
go back to eating your weird sushi

You can't even import decent rice

All of these business closing has nothing to do with the inflation rate..nothing at all.

Maybe someday you'll meet a rich American guy that can rescue you.
69 Anglotino (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 08:45 pm Report abuse
Yankeeboy and ElaineB

If I had to use this quote to describe someone, who would it be?

“I've never met such a defensive jingoist in my life. Blaming everything and anything if he feels the “greatness” of his country is somehow questioned or slighted....”

Sorry I nearly choked on my breakfast while enjoying this beautiful, gorgeous, warm, peaceful morning.
70 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 09:19 pm Report abuse
@TTT/Arifu

@69 Anglotino makes a good point,

”If I had to use this quote to describe someone, who would it be?

“I've never met such a defensive jingoist in my life. Blaming everything and anything if he feels the “greatness” of his country is somehow questioned or slighted....”

I'm sure that Yankeeboy is patriotic, just like you. That's understandable to be proud of one's honourable heritage and history.

Yankeeboy is proud to be a citizen of the USA, just like you are proud to be Argentinian.

He is proud of his country, but can be critical of his government and his President if he feels it is warranted.

For you, I would go even further and say that you are an Argentine Nationalist - you stand behind your country 100%.

However, I NEVER see you criticise your government or its policies.
It leads me to believe that you have bought in fully, to the government - sponsored La Campora propaganda. No comment is ever made about your President, Crissy Kirchner.
Looks to me like, instead of the intelligent independent thinker you portray yourself to be, you have really bought into the 'personality cult' that is the infallible CFK.

Just my opinion. Others may think differently, though.
Then again, perhaps not??
71 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 17th, 2013 - 02:39 am Report abuse
Nothing beyond 65 meriting reply.
72 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 17th, 2013 - 03:00 am Report abuse
That's ok. You heard us.

:-D
73 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 17th, 2013 - 03:20 am Report abuse
I heard you allright. Hard not to hear such cacophonous crying in unison.
74 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 17th, 2013 - 03:28 am Report abuse
You heard us and you have no argument.

You just look like a fool to everyone on here.

Game set match.

Have your mother drive you to Havanna and have some more Dulce de Leche. You will feel better. :-)
75 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 17th, 2013 - 03:40 am Report abuse
There is no argument to be made. You are silly losers who think you have it made over me because you are from “1st world countries”, that is the crux of all your gasconades, you spend your entire days here trashing Argentina and claiming we are the worst in basically anything that is measurable for standards.

And the more you people speak such things, the more rational readers conclude the truth must be otherwise.
76 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 17th, 2013 - 03:42 am Report abuse
Sure sure, stop crying.

Good night, Sonny-boy.
77 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 17th, 2013 - 03:46 am Report abuse
Keep hating. Haters welcome.
78 yankeeboy (#) Feb 17th, 2013 - 11:25 am Report abuse
I went out with an Rg in the know last night and he told me Boudou doubled CFK's lithium along with the other meds she is taking. That is why she is only capable of being seen 1x or 2x a week now.
Makes sense.
Even he is saying a collapse is imminent and the Prez and minions are just trying to get out as much money as can before it all goes into the crapper.
79 ElaineB (#) Feb 17th, 2013 - 01:45 pm Report abuse
@70 It is the difference between Patriotism and Nationalism. The latter is negative, aggressive and destructive.
80 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 17th, 2013 - 03:30 pm Report abuse
@78yank

Interesting, yet somehow not surprising.

@79elaine

Makes them blind and irrational too

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