Self determination and world examples dominated political debate hosted by Falklands
The 43rd British Islands and Mediterranean Region (BIMR) Annual Conference of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association (CPA), held in the Falkland Islands on the 12th and 13th February 2013, was described as both fascinating and provoking by delegates.
The theme of the two-day conference held on the 12th and 13th February was “Self-Determination and its role in Self Governance and Devolution”. Guest speakers were invited to address three plenary sessions.
The Rt Hon Baroness Scotland QC addressed the first Plenary Session, entitled “Self-Determination and its role in Self Governance and Devolution”. In her speech she placed the right to self-determination squarely within the international legal framework and gave examples of how fluid and varied a nation’s journey can be through different degrees of self-governance.
Professor Michael Keating addressed the second Plenary Session entitled “Arguments about Self-Determination”. He explained the different elements required for a nation to determine its own future, and the different ways in which this can occur. He concluded with a statement describing how over time a group can constitute itself as a people to determine their own future, so long as it can be demonstrated that there is a genuine desire to do so.
These Plenary Sessions were followed by two workshops, focusing on “The challenges of Governance in smaller territories and regions” and “Theories of Self-Determination: How have these theories been applied in recent years across the world and what are the international trends?“
The second day of the conference saw The Hon Samantha Sacramento MP deliver a speech on behalf of Fabian Picardo, Chief Minister of Gibraltar prior to the third Plenary Session entitled “The Right to Self Determination is not curtailed by Sovereignty Claims”. The speech described Gibraltar’s own journey of self-determination, and the challenges faced by small states in exercising their right to decide their own political future.
The final Open Plenary discussed “Experiences in the Development of Greater Regional and National Autonomy”.
MLA Jan Cheek said: “besides the relevance and thought provoking quality of the presentations and workshops I enjoyed the opportunity to talk in the margins to most of the participants. We have much to learn from one another and many valuable contacts were made.”
MLA Summers added that “it was an interesting experience for all parties to the Conference to be able to compare the varying levels of devolved government in their territories, and the important role played by self-determination in reaching those positions. The right of the people to choose their relationship with others remains a key determinant in their interrelationships, and remains one of the most fundamental of human rights.”
MLA Dick Sawle said: “for me the thing that stood out was that there is no one size fits all definition of self determination. All of the paths that countries/territories have taken in the exercise of self-determination have been different. Ours is a classic case of finding a path forward for the Falkland Islands that meets the requirements of our home and people.”
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Bollocks. If it was so illegal as you claim, get CFK to make a case at the ICJ.
Of course she wont though, that's a court she can't lean on to alter the final decision when the ''result'' is not in her favour..
Tough luck, get used to it.
Have a read of this it should help you improve your English:- www.buenosairesherald.com/article/124653/puppets-on-a-string
Truth hurts, doesn't it...... Puppet :-))))))
John Kerry is going to London to issue his orders to the British. Mr Hague's job will be to copy down those orders faithfully.
We're not Israel and so the USA is not going to care what we think or do, getting upset about this is just a waste of time. It would be better to get Uruguayan or Chilean support and build up some friends and trading partners in the area.
End of.
@5 Got your thesaurus out again, have you? Let's make something totally clear to you benighted ignoramuses. There is NOTHING that the United States or the United Nations can say or do that will change OUR decision. And OUR decision is that the Falkland Islanders are entitled to self-determination. It is doubtful if they would EVER determine that they no longer wish to own or live on the Islands. Possibly, in the course of the next couple of centuries, they may determine that they wish to change their political status. But that will be THEIR choice. Britain will respect THEIR choice. No-one else gets a say!
@7 Aaah, Hepatitis. I see you haven't changed. Still pasting the address of the page you're on to remind you where you are. A truly useless, ignorant muppet!
Let us remember that Mr Kerry is coming to US. Possibly hoping to rescue his political career by being seen in discussions with an intelligent and responsible government. No doubt Mr Kerry will be told his fortune. And that of his country.
You might remember, or research, how much various parts of the US industrial base relies on the UK. Keeping things on the right note, go figure how much British withdrawal would affect the F-35 program. Did you know that US tanks have British armour? Did you know that the US Navy has to ask British Type 45 destroyers to switch off their equipment so that the yanks can stand a chance in exercises?
Besides, Americans aren't like argies. They don't scuttle around the world telling lies to anyone forced to listen.
How long will it take before these things become obvious even to you? Until you're 10, 11, even 12? Months, that is!
Not “Internationally Supervised”....... Nor “Intermationally Recognized”.
(As we already knew.....)
”Washington will not recognise the result of next month's referendum.”
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/02/22/william-hague-john-kerry-falklands_n_2739945.html?utm_hp_ref=uk
As one of my Argentinean compatriots so rightly put it on these pages some days ago……:
“The only thing that will come out of this “Referendum” is a series of ugly post stamps.”
Ps:
Mr. Joe Bloggs:
Did you ever post that letter with those ugly stamps to Villa Pagana?
Secretary says.......: No letters from them Islands...., yet.
Chuckle chuckle
“Unlike Argentina, the UK has no desire to bring third parties into a bilateral issue. Our position on supporting self-determination for the Falkland islanders is underpinned by the United Nations Charter, which is binding on all UN members.”
Do they mean the US or the Islanders?
“ A Foreign Office spokeswoman said the UK Government is in ”regular touch“ with the US on the issue of the Falklands.
A spokeswoman said: ”The US position has not changed. The US does not support Argentina's sovereignty claims. The US recognises the UK's administration of the Falkland Islands, but takes no position on sovereignty.
“We are, of course, in regular touch with the US on this issue, as on so many others. And we expect that dialogue to continue.
”Unlike Argentina, the UK has no desire to bring third parties into a bilateral issue. Our position on supporting self-determination for the Falkland islanders is underpinned by the United Nations Charter, which is binding on all UN members.”
Should be very entertaining I'd think.............
Viva the Falklands !!
Who do these Brits think they are!
A people so superior to the likes of you that it offends my modesty to have to remind you.
You say...:
“It's the intellectual ineptitude of the FCO that I despair of.....”
I say...:
You said it..... Not me..... :-)
Be assured we are not the US's poodle!
Why do you Argies get so hung up about the AMERICANS thing? You don't call yourselves Americans and you know the if the term is used anywhere in the world people immediately think of the people of the USA.
The only thing that matters is what the Islanders want for their future. The words self-determination are self-explanatory.
Some (deadbeats) are acting so excited about this you would imagine the USA IS the world.
Chuckle chuckle
The Falklands
He, who cares,
The British,
Who is it to do with,
Besides the top two,
NO ONE..
.
The US position as not changed in 31 years why are you getting so excited????
In the hope of a miracle,
The Argies were just [ hoping]
Lol.
Still
Ever seen an argie flying piglet
.
You know what Joe? I think that what the “La Campora” posters on here “Think” and say amount to exactly nothing...Nill.......Zero.
Oh they like to shout and they like to scream, they will tell ANYONE who will listen that they “don't recognise” this Referendum but so what?? They have trouble with the words “Self determination” as well, I hear that you can't find it in a dictionary anywhere in Argentina......
The Argentine stance on the Falkland Islands has not changed ( boo-hoo!! ) who cares??? I mean really? Does anyone, ANYONE on the Falklands care or take any notice of anything that BA does these days??
Have a safe and successful Referendum my friend, you and all you Falkland Islanders. No one gives a flying f**k what any Argentinian thinks, it's the rest of the world that will be watching you and it's the rest of the world that counts.
would this be the same “US neutrality” They repeatedly shown in 1982???? :))))
enough said.....
SELF DETERMINATION....Its a picnic!
Pretty simple really
After some consideration that took me several minutes I decided not to waste my Benny Pennies on you by sending you some beautiful stamps.
28 Tooold
Cheers my friend. I always appreciate your kind words and strong support.
30 Steveu
Nothing's changed today, this week, year year, this decade or this quarter century. Small things amuse desperate minds.
You say...:
“After some consideration that took me several minutes I decided not to waste my Benny Pennies on you by sending you some beautiful stamps.”
I can't say I'm surprised....
You maybe a Bennie full of pennies...
But you are most certainly not a Kelper.....
The Kelpers I value and respect know the value of a word.
Chuckle chuckle
It's fortunate he's wrong most of the time and often very spectacularly.
Maybe he should spend less time trying to be clever and more time trying to do some actual 'thinking'. Well that is, unless his name is designed to be ironic in how often he's wrong.
Where is CFK these days? She's gone from years of daily ranting to completely disappearing. Mental break down?
Q. Whose side did the USA publicly declare they were on in 1982?
A. Neither.
Q. For all practical purposes whose side were they really on?
A. UK
Q. Whose side did the USA publicly declare they were on in 2013?
A. Neither.
Q. For all practical purposes whose side are they really on?
A. ???????
Ummm? Give me a clue.
”On 30 December 1966, the US and the UK executed an agreement through an Exchange of Notes which permit the US to use the BIOT for defense purposes for 50 years (through December 2016), followed by a 20-year optional extension (to 2036) to which both parties must agree by December 2014.[19] No monetary payment was made from the US to the UK as part of this agreement or any subsequent amendment. Rather, the United Kingdom received a US$14 million discount from the US on the acquisition of submarine-launched ballistic missile system Polaris missiles per a now-declassified addendum to the 1966 agreement.“
So it looks like the 20 year extension has to be decided by 2014
The Wikipedia article makes some chilling reading - in particular:
”Diego Garcia is rumoured to have been one of the locations of the CIA's black sites. Several groups claim that the military base on Diego Garcia has been used by the US government for transport of prisoners involved in the controversial extraordinary rendition program, an allegation formally reported to the Council of Europe in June 2007. On February 21, 2008, British Foreign Secretary David Miliband admitted that two US extraordinary rendition flights refuelled on Diego Garcia in 2002. No reference was made to whether prisoners were on board the aircraft at the time.”
and (from cited from WikiLeaks in the same article):
“Additionally, Diego Garcia was used as a storage section for US cluster bombs as a detour from UK parliamentary oversight”
Seems the US are taking the piss at our expense!
Volatile and vague concepts of people, nation, and the affirmation of the Fisherman English of the Argentine Sea, to mourn!: “Ours is a classic case of finding a path forward for the Falkland Islands That Meets the Requirements of our home and people.” What scientific your affirmation!
Poor squatters!
www.infonews.com/2013/02/22/politica-62300-frica-tambien-reconoce-la-soberania-argentina-en-malvinas-islas-malvinas.php
Dumbkopf!
North Korea next....
www.infobae.com/notas/697747-Todos-los-paises-de-Africa-respaldaron-el-reclamo-argentino-por-Malvinas.html
The document also “urges the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to resume negotiations with Argentina to find as soon as possible a just, peaceful and definitive solution to the dispute, in accordance with the relevant resolutions United Nations and other regional and international organizations.
The document DOES NOT SAY that The 54 African countries joined ”South America to recognize the legitimate rights of sovereignty of Argentina over the Falkland Islands, South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands and the surrounding maritime areas.”
I happen to believe that, in any event, the UK has chosen the wrong American country with whom to appeal there case. So, which ever way you look at it the referendum play has failed.
http://100r.org/corruption-allstars/
Canada seems friendly enough. Does that meet your made up theory ?
Seriously though, are you Timerman ? Am noticing the same disjointed lunatic arguements.
The Yanks have ever adopted the same position. If it hadn'y have been for 1831 they may even have favoured Argentina - but Monroe's Doctrine didn't apply, and the Lexington scewed up the Yank's position for ever.
www.scribd.com/doc/103755318/Falklands-War-The-First-400-Years-PDF
“It matters because the government of the UK understands that without the support of at least one powerful American country they will have to return Las Malvinas to Argentina with the next 25 years.”
That seems a bit of a stretch to me. Why would the Falklands have to be “returned”, as you alone put it, to Argentina if the U.S. does not openly back the referendum results.
How is that going to proceed over the next 25 years? What events are going to take place that ultimately lead to the UK being forced to not support the Falklands? Because the U.S. does not openly support the Falklands position, what events do you think will take place? Step by step, can you expand on your prediction?
nb note the colour of antarctica on that map.....
Very good (and funny) article.
What ever position that countries have on the referendum are irrelevant. UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has raised no objection to the it.
The UK is running rings around Argentina legally, because in spite of Argentine objection, the legal effect is that she has acquiesced. By not legally trying to prevent it by applying to PCA or ICJ to quash it.
Clutching at straws & hoping for a miracle!
Soon it will be all over for you malvinistas, good l say.
Wonder how many of those African countries will be queuing up for OUR oil? ha ha ha ha.
Suck it up, Argentina.
@61 How naive.
All democratic processes are locally consultative by their very nature,
Who elects your local MP, MEP, Councillors, School Governors?
Are you saying that the result is irrelevant to the issue? Because if you are, I would disagree.
CFK is merely blowing hot air,
or something similar.
The reason that CFK is running shit scared regarding the referendum is that it shows that the Falklanders are a people in their own right rather than pawns in a game of bilateral chess between the UK and Argentina.
Once this fact is Globally recognised (and the UN already recognises it), it is game over for Argentina and their specious claim - e are probably all guilty of lending it too much credence in the first place. It is rather sad that nearly a thousand young men from both sides were cut down in their prime to get us where we are today.
The UK gave Argentina more than enough chances in the name of pragmatism - too late now!
“Sussie” - you are so superficial.
Jan Cheek is a responsible ethical person.
You, on the other hand, are a slimey reptile, a thief, a degenerate and a pervert.
Jan Cheek is 10x the human being you are. More than you will ever be.
She is publicly fighting an enemy that is deceitful and hateful.
YOU, “Sussie” of a thousand faces, slink in the shadows like the coward you are - a rat feeding on others.
“It's only a consultative local referendum anyway.”
You are certainly more direct in your slagging of the Referendum and Falklanders now.
Feeling the urgency of the situation, it seems.
I think we can ignore the democratic opinion of the inhabitants of a country, because it is only a consultative local referendum.
Tell you what, why don't they do what Argentina has done, rip up the charter and make it up has they go along.
Square peg will always fit in a round hole, if you hit it long enough and hard enough.
This referenda has the potential to make a laughing stock out of the UN and it's so called democratic members.
That was uncalled for, DoD.
I have always found rc to be level-headed & make a lot of sense.
When you, sr DoD took our resident snake, sr Think, to task about his lying re the Malabo Declaration, l thought that maybe l'd misjudged you.
But you've slipped back to your old level. hmmmmmn, pity.
You right Isolde, should not have risen to to the bait.
The referendum proves that the islanders are not puppets, indepedent observers will confirm this. It counters the very rhetoric used by argentina and that is why this referendum is hsppening... in 2 weeks and a day!
Hmm, an Argentine article. I notice this is no link to the actual documents, nor a list as to whether ALL documents and contents are recorded.
Before the Trolls tell me off, one of your own members was demanding actual pdf's of documents before conceding to them.
I would not bet on that. Return, what do mean return? Argentina only had the Islands in 82 by force of arms and that is now history.
Do you ever read anybodies replies ? You keep writing the same garbage
The position that the UN takes will not stop the UK returning Las Malvinas to Argentina.
When asked why, you post “because”, with no other thought but wishful thinking.
“ That is, you are asking the wrong question.”
Define the question, then.
Or drop it. Nobody is going to waste time with you, guessing your issues.
I like a good argument so please do come back at me.
For those British people who are determined to maintain the UK occupation of Las Malvinas the question is how this may be achieved.
“I like a good argument so please do come back at me.”
Ok, I stand corrected.
There is no legal basis on which the dispute can be resolved to Argentina's complete satisfaction and no advantage for UK to seek a legal solution, being in full possession of the disputed territory already.
There is no security threat to the UK occupation, given modern surveillance systems, agency alert posture, reinforcement potential and the balance of capabilities between the two parties to the dispute. A permanent seat in the Security Council helps too.
That leaves the politics and economics of decolonisation and hydrocarbons. For the former, no real need to do anything but the options are regularly discussed and will be again if the Referendum yields a No vote (some chance!). For the latter, it would appear that the UK's resolve to maintain its possession is now underpinned by improved affordability with a growing Consolidated Fund managed from the City of London.
So, in answer to your question, two options:
1. Masterly inactivity.
2. Changing the narrative by decolonisation of the Islands, for example by integration into the UK.
@99 Steady on old chap. Don't encourage me.
Aruba, Curaçao, and Sint Martin are constituent countries of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, but are not integrated into the Netherlands. Bonaire, Sint Eustatius, and Saba are integral parts of the Netherlands as special municipalities. I was referring to the 3 constituent countries.
@105 Very good Sir. Will Sir be paying cash (but not peso please) or seeking credit?
I can see that you are again clinching to Mr. dab14763….
One of the few Brits in here offering, mostly, quite correct data…..
A pity that he can’t use that info to produce any valid, realistic or useful political analysis…..
Them Malvinas Isles are very much in the World Focus today, and your European post-colonial contortions, ploys and trickery will not work this time….
Get used to it.
Argentina will never get their hands - sorry THIEVING hands on the Falklands. Get used to it.
With best wishes !
The why are you bursting a gut to get your thieving hands on it ?
What about the others.
l am not bored, are you?
Steve, you'd better tell your controllers to come up with something more original.
Or have they abandoned you to your own devices?
l couldn't call you a loose cannon, you're more like a loose thimble that has escaped from my sewing basket.
Still you are entertaining in a way.
www.facebook.com/truthfk
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“your European post-colonial contortions, ploys and trickery will not work this time….”
Self determination is the determinant here-which will work :-)
Not long to go now.................
Wouldn't that be fanny?
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