MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Falklands: PM Cameron anticipates Argentina’s intention of having Francis involved in the dispute
British Prime Minister David Cameron stated on Friday that Pope Francis had been wrong to say last year that Britain had “usurped” the Falkland Islands from Argentina, saying he respectfully disagreed with the new Pontiff. His words have been interpreted as a message anticipating the Argentine government’s possible attempts to get the new pope involved in the dispute. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesComments as an Archbishop are very different to what you could expect as the new head of state. He is no longer Argentine but a citizen and head of state of the Vatican.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 04:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0I expect he is intelligent enough and surrounded by enough people to make sure he stays diplomatic in his new post. Commenting on inequality, poverty or social issues is totally acceptable and very different to inserting the papacy in a perceived sovereignty dispute by his country of birth.
Mr. Cameron
Mar 16th, 2013 - 06:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0I respectfully disagree with you(like the rest of the world)
Britain had “usurped” Malvinas from Argentina, Pope Francisco is right.
@1:
Mar 16th, 2013 - 07:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Agreed. Regardless of what he said in 2010, - He is now Pope, the pinical point of his carreer/life.
No way he will want to get involved in this petty 'malvinas' thing in front of the whole world.
This papacy is very much a double edged sword.
No way in hell his advisors who will not be contaminated by argentine propaganda will let him get involved, or even comment, as Pope, on the 'malvinas'.
@2
Mar 16th, 2013 - 07:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0I respectfully disagree with you.
The United Provinces of River Plate attempted to usurp the islands from Britain and Spain in November 1832, but instead decided to mutiny, murder and rape.
Britain restored order 2 months later and the population has determined its own destiny since then, except when Argentina invaded at the cost of 1000 lives.
The 3rd world (Latam and other military Juntas in Africa, agree with you) the developed world (EU and Commonwealth) don't.
Horacio Verbitsky is the mad bitch's man..... she will probably tell Frankie that if he supports her on the Falklands she will call Horacio to heel.....
Mar 16th, 2013 - 07:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/03/15/pope-francis-s-dirty-war-dealings.html?
Blackmail...... nasty stuff used by nasty people........
@2 you are up late again Mark.... oh I forget... its breakfast time in the UK isn't it...
@3 Escoses Doido
Mar 16th, 2013 - 07:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0I agree. People forget that to become pope, you are just some shy wallflower who everyone thinks is a nice guy. You are ruthless and political and diplomatic and know how to play the game.
While every new pope pretends to be surprised and humbled by the honour, the truth is that there was politicking and deals done in the new pope's full knowledge.
He knows what the role is and the Falkland Islands are now a minor footnote in his biography and nothing more.
While he may ask for countries to have dialogue and he may even ask the UK and Argentina to sit down and discuss their issues, he will NEVER say that the Falklands are Argentine.
As he is no longer an Argentine but a citizen of a foreign country, the Vatican.
All this stuff about him taking the bus (not even the front row!) and paying his own hotel bill is great PR but doesn't change the fact that the Catholic church has repeatedly disgraced itself and is in serious decline. Even just 20 years ago Irish government legislation went across the cardinal's desk for approval. Today the Catholic church is openly mocked and even despised by some in Ireland because of the physical and sexual abuse of 10s of thousands of children and young people in schools, churches and the infamous laundries. The Vatican did nothing to stop it but just covered it up and so are fully complicit. According to the Bible it would be better to be tied to a millstone and drowned in the sea than face the fate of the child abusers and their protectors. Unfortunately this new Pope appears to be a keep-your-head-down kind of guy and so it will be business as usual at the Vatican. Oh and 10 points for anyone who knows which Italian leader set up the Vatican as an independent state?
Mar 16th, 2013 - 08:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0He will join the list of people who call themselves Argentine but aren't really...
Mar 16th, 2013 - 08:11 am - Link - Report abuse 01) Marcos Alejandro
2) Lionel Messi
3) Pope Francis
Pope Belgrano should take note of the fate of his namesake. If he involves himself in trying to rob Britain of the Falklands he will act true to type. Lying and thieving are seemingly an acceptable trait on the SA mainland, but the Falklands are British territory with inhabitants who prefer to live in peace and enjoy freedom and democracy.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 08:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0If the pope takes a malvinista approach we'd get our new archbishop of canterbury to challenge him on human rights and an arm wrestling competition.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 08:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0He probably won't be averse to calling for “peace” and “dialogue”, but since the rest of the world isn't attuned to the Malvinista code book, only Peronist kneejerkers in Argentina will believe he means any more than he said.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 08:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0...meanwhile, in front of her mirror, CFK is having a Road to Damask experience...
Mar 16th, 2013 - 08:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0if he does try to use his position to become more politically involved with the Falklands and other internal politics it will not go down very well with international Catholics and international community's, he is likely to remain neutral on the issue of Falkland.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 08:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0@1 Anglotino
Mar 16th, 2013 - 08:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0The question is not if the pope will leave this issue behind. it's CFK.
It is likely that the Pope will distance himself from the issue. He has other fish to fry
Mar 16th, 2013 - 09:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0This pope has already been discredited practically on his first day, as it is now clear he was no better than a nazi sympathiser where the Junta was concerned and allowed his priests to be whisked off in silence and he never said a word.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 09:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0I would be very surprised if he was stupid enough to place himself in the middle of turkey necks bogus sovereignty claims. He is the sort of guy that looks the other way, perfect for the Catholic Church actually. The vast majority of Northern Europeans have been disgusted with the Catholic Church and it's cover up of sex offences and paedophilia, taking a pro- argentine stand in the Falklands when there are so many more terrible things going on in the world, will do Catholicism no favours at all.
@4 Excellent summary of true events.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 09:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0I was just thinking that it would be a gopod idea for FIG and the Catholic church to invite Fransicus to visit Stanley, when I read:
Mar 16th, 2013 - 09:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Falkland Islands Catholics want new pope to visit them” http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/mar/15/falkland-catholics-want-pope-to-visit
That would be a great opportunity to publicly set the record straight on the actual historical events and to show, through the eyes of a venerated man, that the only way is to let the Islanders live in peace.
@14 Flagpole
Mar 16th, 2013 - 10:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The question is not if the pope will leave this issue behind. it's CFK.”
Agreed!
Perhaps his inauguration will become slight Benny Hillesque with CFK chasing Francis around trying to hand him paperwork in the Islands. Shades of a recent G20 summit.
Here's the theme music:
http://youtu.be/MK6TXMsvgQg
I feel some of the pro Falklands posters need to use more measured language when discussing the Pope and the USA. Being negative with people that at worst are so far neutral is playing into malvista hands.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 10:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0And no, I am not catholic (or even christian)
Here's something he can start with: http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/peopleandpower/2013/03/201331313434142322.html
Mar 16th, 2013 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's a non-issue stoked by the press to get a story. CFK etc will do the grubby thing (they don't know how to act otherwise) and bring it up with the Pope, but suspect his holiness will help her review her priorities.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 11:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Church needs to be careful. Before they know it, Cristina will be claiming Vatican City is part of Argentina!!
Mar 16th, 2013 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0said it before, i'll say it again: if the pope gets involved it will simply backfire. Apart from it being blatantly obvious that he is biased, Britain, being “anglican” dont let having popes tell them what to do.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 12:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0he'll get a big two finger salute and move more people into the anti-Argentina camp....
and, in the process, make the Papacy look even more stupid than it already does.
I really cant imagine a Pope being that stupid, but, hey, its the catholic church, stupid, corrupt and full of kiddy-fidddlers protected by a vast wealth of stolen property and history of collaboration with dodgy dictators and corrupt leaders.... go figure if they do.
@Marcos Alejandro Repectfully we will tell the new ITALIAN Pope that he needs to get The Catholic Church house in order and deal with the HIGH percentage of GAY priest who make gay people feel worthless by preaching one thing yet doing the opposite themself then he can start on the PEDOS
Mar 16th, 2013 - 12:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I hope time proves me wrong, but at this point it looks as if Francis saw no evil in the Junta, but did speak out about the Falklands. Not encouraging.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ynsere He also spoke out against the kirchners,but him speaking will mean nothing at best he will call for talks-nothing will be changing.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And, just in time, here's another example of “supreme” catholic-church thinking: pedophilia is not a crime:
Mar 16th, 2013 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21810980
and this is one of the fine upstanding gentlemen (as it excludes women remember) to vote in the new Italian Pope.
erm, sorry the new “1st generation implanted so wouldnt qualify for self-determination” Argentine Pope.
@7 Redrow
Mar 16th, 2013 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Greetings from the Republic of Ireland.
You are quite right about how the general public here feel about the Catholic Church but there are many years of indoctrination to overcome (a bit like Argentina but without the spiteful attitudes).
And the person who set up the Vatican as an independent state was none other than that old Latino favourite....Benito Mussolini
UK solved that Pope having influence in internal affairs of a Sovereign nation a few hundred years ago.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 01:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He can stick to trying to bring down the Socialist Thugs making their citizens poorer in about 1/2 of South America. That should take up plenty of this time.
5 Frank
Mar 16th, 2013 - 01:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes Yank, I live in the Buckingham Palace.
I don't go to sleep early like you (chicken) Yank.
How's the weather in P. Williams?
The election of the new Argentine pope should trigger renewed interest in the details of the 1982 Falklands War.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 01:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The first ever papal visit to Britain, which had been arranged well in advance, took place in the midst of the Falklands War between Britain and Catholic Argentina. The Vatican was compelled by political necessity to follow the British visit with a hastily arranged papal visit to Argentina, otherwise it risked undermining its Latin American base.
The cooperation of the military junta that ruled Argentina from 1976 to 1983 was needed for the latter visit. Suggestions that the Pope cold shouldered the junta during the visit do not match the facts. Two particular photos that appeared in the Catholic press at the time are of particular interest in this regard.
These photos are to be found in an article about this fascinating chapter in papal history that reveals a great deal about the Vatican’s modus operandi in modern times —
http://www.wallsofjericho.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33&Itemid=68
ANd let us all not forget how well the previous attempts of the Pope deciding who could live where went....
Mar 16th, 2013 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0now that would be a true and undeniable return to the worst parts of colonialism if the Pope gets to decide who lives where.
Oh, and lookie who is trying to get him to do that.. good old “we're not colonialists its the British” : CFK & cronies.
funny old thing.
its an overused phrase but entirely apposite: “you couldn't make this stuff up!”
The vatican has got more 'benders' than a bunch of bananas.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well the popes comments on the islands have been in pretty much every international newspaper, so the word is out and well established in the minds of whats probably a good portion of the 1.2 billion Catholics.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(only a small portion of these with any interest in the islands dispute)
.
I don't think he'll be revoking his words, we'll probably see a little bit of diplomatic waltzing from GB and the Vatican.
Given S.Americas shared Latin american background/culture, Mercosur, and need for neighborly relations this little episode only serves to strengthen S.Americas allegiance with Argentina due to levels of Catholicism on the continent.
Theres also strong representation of Catholicism in the EU at every level and some lesser so in the USA. So although the vast vast majority of the billion Catholics will hold zero direct influence on the dispute there will be some pretty strong indirect undercurrents in Argentina's favor, manifesting in diplomatic circles in the EU, US, and S.A.
Given the smallish nature of the islands dispute the pope being Argentinian has a relatively huge implications. Those pro-Malvinas should be very happy. :)
'The energy and oil, two great economic hopes on Falklands - Stanley. - Six giant windmills rotate smoothly with the cold wind on the steppe of the Falkland Islands, a few miles from the military base at Mount Pleasant. “This is part of our future,” said a British source baquiano tanning top of his jeep...'
Mar 16th, 2013 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1563748-la-energia-y-el-petroleo-dos-grandes-esperanzas-economicas-en-malvinas
'Dominguez sees a signal to advance the dialogue on the islands - The Kirchner Julian Dominguez, president of the Chamber of Deputies, said the election of Jorge Bergoglio as new pope “is a very strong sign” for the country and called “ask God” to fulfill a positive role in the claim Argentina's sovereignty over the Falkland Islands...'
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1563748-la-energia-y-el-petroleo-dos-grandes-esperanzas-economicas-en-malvinas
The intemperate and ad hominem remarks made about the Falkland Islanders in the homily of the former Cardinal Archbishop of Buenos Aires on the occasion of the mass last April to to commemorate the totally illegal armed invasion of the archipelago in 1982 are very worrying.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is his duty as the leader of the Roman Catholic Church to apologise at the earliest opportunity otherwise his posture taints his papacy.
I say this as a Catholic.
Vestige, I see where you are coming from but i dont buy into it I'm afraid.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody wants religion dictating foreign affairs, apart from Theocracies like Iran perhaps, and we know how ppeople regard them.
There are so many hypocritical elements here that it can only ever go against Argentina... not least of them being that... why... only last week, this was Bi-lateral issue in which nobody esle got any say, not even the Falkland Islanders.
But now, all of a sudden, it is no longer “bi-lateral” because the new Pope has some 1st generation ties to Argentina.
When people get right down to dissecting all of the Argentine claims and various pantomime-horse approaches the over-riding result is one of an administration that is not only willing to contradict itself and be openly hypocritical to the entire world, but one that is so desperate it HAS to be so.
Any government or organisation that now swallows this sudden change from “bi-lateral ism” to tri-lateral ism is going to be open, and deservedly, ridiculed.
Its panto-time, rather than “worried” time.
The Popes days of telling the world who can live where are long over.
Oh! these pirates! “it clear in the referendum that they wanted to remain under British rule.”
Mar 16th, 2013 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do we care what the okupas want! So to justify the theft of a car. The thief has made clear he wants to stay with the car.
1600 British guys are not going to decide a territorial sovereignty dispute between two countries. Everyone knows that.
@39 well i'm afraid they are me old COCK sparrow, and YOU know that, that is why you are panicking
Mar 16th, 2013 - 04:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I wouldn't be concerned that he will do anything even if his background is shocking.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He's now a mouthpiece for the church and nothing more, he's certainly not the decision maker thats for sure.
Besides, whats he going to do? Nobody has taken orders off the church for at least 100 years.....
@39
Mar 16th, 2013 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lol, stole the car and staying in the car, very profound! So the difference being is when Spain stole the car in South America, they dragged the driver and his family out and slaughtered them all, then they stayed in the car.
That's the difference between you and us!
41
Mar 16th, 2013 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yawn
No-one should forget the activities conducted by the Roman Catholic “church” over the years. Paedophilia, assisting war criminals, conquest, corruption, criminality, degeneracy, invasion, illegal occupation, kleptomania, larceny, mendacity, murder, rape, torture, war. As a result, argieland no doubt considers itself “religious”. However, the Roman Catholic “church” is headed for hell. As is argieland. Against the possibility that “hell” may not exist, WE can provide something indistinguishable. An incredible eruption, followed by winds that can strip the skin from a body, heat that can melt bones and eyeballs, radiation that will ensure a slow and painful death. Every foodstuff, animal, vegetable or mineral, will be a further poison.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 05:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@2 Argieland is, of course, wrong. Not that the UK would ever accept the “mediation” of a charlatan that believes in an old beardy man that lives on a cloud.
@15 Do you think he bakes bread as well?
@35 Have you read the prophecies? Is he really the Anti-Christ? Let's see whether a silver bullet will “kill” him!
@39 WE have a chance here. WE can send “hell” to damnation. WE can make “hell” what it should be. A place of everlasting fire, pain, torture. And who better for demons and devils? Argies. Except that WE can make the demons and devils burn in “hell”. And die! The UK, as ever, can be the saviour of the world. With just one word. “Shoot”. Let's do it on Monday. From Tuesday, all will be peaceful and quiet. And WE can destroy the Anti-Christ at the same time. He comes from “hell”. What else could he be?
“Lower House head Domínguez called to pray to God for the Pope to be “an instrument” in helping with Malvinas dispute”
Mar 16th, 2013 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Good luck with that!!! I don't think that G*d is in Argentina at this time of year.... I think he's in Jamacia for the sun and white run.......
TWIMC
Mar 16th, 2013 - 06:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Time for some Kelper knaves to drive down to the Argentinean War Cemetery at Darwin and desecrate the little Virgin of Lujan............ again.
46 Think
Mar 16th, 2013 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No...... Time for some scum-sucking, pond-dwelling, bottom feeding, Argentine low life, to throw a couple of Nun's out of a plane.............again
Nobody in Argentine public life can afford to go against the fanatical “Malvinas son Argentinas” propaganda. To do so would lead to political or career suicide. How many Russians during Stalins time would have had the courage/stupidity to say that the Russian occupation of the Baltics states was illegal? Besides he probably believes the lies that every RG is fed from cradle to grave. The “Malvinas” is as much a national obsession as soccer - if not more so - and the true facts have never been told them.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dear Primer Minister,
Mar 16th, 2013 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has a very SOFT- BRIT STLYLE PAPER TOWEL ONLY FOR YOU,
Respectfully,
Latin Americans without Royal and Servants titles
PS. We have extra used paper towel for the Brits that participate in this “ forum extended territory”
@49
Mar 16th, 2013 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0want to try that again in english?
#46
Mar 16th, 2013 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Naw, dig them up and bury them at sea and use the land for something more productive.
37 Gordo1
Mar 16th, 2013 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mr. Cameron and Britain should apologise at the earliest opportunity for the invasions of 1806, 1807, 1833 and 1845 of my homeland.
http://www.britishreparations.org/commercial.php
Several months ago I started reading the comments on here regarding the Falkands/Malvinas despute, comments from both sides that basically degenerate into a slanging match. It is just a waste of saliva, due to the fact that Argentina will never cross the line of taking this to the ICJ to settle the matter once and for all. They know the real truth, but obtained non binding resolutions in the 60's by distorting the truth. ( still not sure why this was not contested by the UK at the time and the resolutions were passed ) So time marches on while Argentina will carry on with the whine and bluster, garnering so called support where ever they can for “Dialogue and Negociations ” Meanwhile the Falklands move forward getting nearer and nearer Independence. The really sad thing is as time passes and here I am going back to the time of Peron till today, they have brain washed their children and consequently the great grandparents, grandparents and parents of today into believing whatever the government of the day says is right and just. Witnessed by the celebrations in the Plaza de Mayo in 1982 and today it is just the same, I can qualify this by quoting a young boy of 14 years of age who said “ You stole the Malvinas from us” after he asked where I was from.I then asked why does he think like that, he told me that it is taught in the schools and that his truth is the real truth. How sad.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 07:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'Argentina slams 'disrespectful' David Cameron for 'daring to rebuff' Pope over Falklands - Argentina has attacked David Cameron for his criticism of the new Pope's stance on the Falklands as the diplomatic dispute over the islands intensifies...'
Mar 16th, 2013 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/9934810/Argentina-slams-disrespectful-David-Cameron-for-daring-to-rebuff-Pope-over-Falklands.html
@53
Mar 16th, 2013 - 08:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think people look at Argentina and see a relatively developed infrastructure, a longer term history of a strong economy, and expect to see a behaviours becoming of a modern democracy.
However, Argentina is more like Iran than pretty much any other comparison. For the Ayottolah read Peron, and CFK is Ahmadinejad. This is state controlled dogma fed to children with the milk. Propoganda that the communist block would blush at.
Once you get past the genocide (sic) there was a lot of promise in Argentina, with the assistance of Spain and Britain, a significant industrial base was formed and Argentina was well set in the early 1900s to prosper.
Then, the Ayotollah (Peron), the Junta and the Kirchners set about raping the country, not just of its it's wealth, not just its pride, but it's honour and it's decency. What is left of once great nation is a lying, cheating, thieving mess of tyrants.....it must be heartbreaking for decent Argentines to see and live through.
As I said before, many including the US and Europe see Argentina as a heroin addicted child. They see them selves as “edgy” “cool” “rule-breakers”, we see them as pitiful wretched shadows of their former self.
We'd like to help, but we know our junkie friend would throw it back at us, laugh that “he doesn't need it”.
The question is, do you just watch as he injects himself to death, or do you force “cold-turkey” in the vain hope that the former greatness can be realised....it's a toughie...as Reagan said “please don't humiliate them”.
@Marcos Alejandro Why do you chose to speak about your homeland from afar?? why don't you go back there whats keeping you???????
Mar 16th, 2013 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@55 I agree, Argentina is a parody of the early 1900's. Personally I think the worst thing that could have happened to the country was Peron. His political dogma still dominates today due to no one being able to come up with “ another way ” or break the “chain”. This “ chain ” is in part caused by politians who come and go over the years not wanting to change the status quo in the way the country operates politically and economically since the time of Peron, there are too many benefits for them to be lost if they actually started something radically different. Years ago every once in a while they had a “golpe de estado” military take over by rightwing generals when things appeared to be getting out of hand, but ultimately this serves no purpose whatsoever as when they eventually go ( for whatever reason ) the politians return with the same old dogma. Argentina does not seem able to break this circle
Mar 16th, 2013 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CFK/Argentina
Mar 16th, 2013 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The answer as to why the issue keeps re-appearing, as so often with latin american politics
So… rioting on the streets and supermarkets being looted; Navy ship seized in a foreign port over unpaid debts; the IMF questioning Argentine honesty regarding financial data; and the possibility of a default over foreign debt… still wondering why Fernandez-Kirchner is trying to divert the attention of her people outside the country’s borders? It’s an ever-present in Argentine politics – when there are problems, the Malvinas issue is dragged out. It’s route one politics and not all that indistinguishable from Galtieri’s methodology in 1982
http://dalyhistory.wordpress.com/
lets face it,
She has a lot to answer for,
and the pope with a very naughty and dubious past,
hoping and trying to convince the people they are good and clean,
And today a catholic cardinal stated that paedophiles are not bad people, but are sick,
a great advertisement for the new pope,
something tells me, what ever happens this year,
2013 will haunt CFK for decades to come.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
As for the new pope,
Some say give him a chance, well you lot have no choice, he is your new pope, and like it or not, he is all you are going to get, until he pops his clogs,
So enjoy him whilst you can..
..
Poor Alicia Castro making a fool of herself again.She now trys to deny a British Prime mminister freedom of speach or expression, is this woman one of the worst embarrassments politicly? she just come out with such shit.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@52 Marcos Alejandro
Mar 16th, 2013 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mrs Kirchner and Argentina should apologise at the earliest opportunity for the invasion of 1982 of the Falkland Islanders homeland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falklands_War
The only Francis I can remember was a talking mule voiced by Chill Willis in some 1940's films with Donald O'Conner.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A talking mule would have as much relevance to the Falklands as the latest incumbent of the same name.
55
Mar 16th, 2013 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You, moron, you're completely in fart. It is an underestimation to our intelligence that brainwash us as if we not had head to thinking, universities where study.
Now, if the arrogant and contemptuous British traditionally resent our convictions and we not dobleguemos us to their lies and ambitions, that's their problem.
Go and study the real history of the islands located in South America (where it is located, Argentina) and not in Northern Europe (where this usurper).
England will never resort to the International Court of Justice because it would not be safe recognizing its sovereignty and because he knows he would lose. It also has the islands (by force) and if you have it, why to go to court? To go to the International Court, both parties must mutually agree to. It might be something to discuss in the event that more than 40 England respect UN resolutions calling for negotiations on the final settlement of the dispute. But the part that systematically refuses to dialogue, which accuses Argentina of not wanting to talk. Hypocrisy typically British.
62 José Malvinero
Mar 16th, 2013 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0FFS get a better interpreter or stop posting.
What you have just posted is gibberish. In other words what gibbers speak. :o)
@62
Mar 16th, 2013 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LOL....
Your universities are a joke, name one decent development by an Argentine...name one world leading innovation out of an Argentine university....a joke.
The Islands are in the south Atlantic, so what? Argentina was in South America when your European ancestors stole it...at least the islands were empty when the British arrived (oops no there were 60 rapists, murderers, mutineeers, vagabonds and deportees, who'd been there 2 months.....pmsl) and a small business venture that remained.
The resolutions (now not relevant) asked for dialogue, not to cede sovereignty. We had dialogue and when you didn't get what you wanted you invaded, costing 1000 lives. We offered dialogue to find a way forward not one month ago, and you refused.
If you can't see Jose, that your government doesn't want sovereignty, they want you (the retarded masses) to concentrate on sovereignty, whilst they steal from you. Judging by the hours you waste here Jose, it works...they distract you with a ridiculous “patriotic” cause...and rape you and your country behind your back.
Not that we care, except there is always a risk that you'll invade again, and sadly the odd decent Argentine might be caught in the cross fire.
You are funny Jose...so much national pride, but nothing to be proud of...jajajaja pirate.
DESPITE SOME OMISSIONS AND IRRELEVANT CONCEPTS.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As i said in planty of oportunities, if i decided to investigate deeply about such a complicated cause like the malvinas-falkland case, is because i have never believed neather in our mendacious official history, written by the conservative sectors from our society, nor in the history told by an empire in decadence like the u. k.
However, for planty of people in this forum, it seems that just our politicians omit information before the u. n., or before any other int. forum, respecting the historic aspects of this conflict.
Anyway, beyond the mediocre thought of many people in this forum, and despite the omissions of the politicians from both nations, it's necesary to say that the case has strong and weak aspects for both countries, in fact, i have explained them in planty of oportunities.
It's not false that the u. k. deprived arg. of exercising it's sovereign rights in 1833, however it's also true that maybe the u. k. had right to occupy the islands in virtue of some relevants facts, that's why, it should have negotiated a solution with our country, or share the administration of the archipelago, instead of depriving arg. of exercising it's rights.
On the other hand, if the islanders are an implanted population, they aren't less implanted than many populations from the mainland, who started to occupy patagonia, after the genocide against the originary populations. The big diffrence between our claim for the islands, and the genocide against our originary populations, is that despite that genocide, our constitution included the rights and claims of those populations, which represents a true historic reparation. That's something that the u. k. has never made for arg., for having deprived it from the islands, due to in some aspects, the u. k. still behaviours like the same thief of XIX century, and cameron confirms one more time that behaviour.
Beside, both countries know that the so called referendum is irrelevant.
take it to the ICJ.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Axel
Mar 16th, 2013 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The BIG difference between your claim for the islands and the genocide against the original population is:
1) they had the land for millennia not 2 months
2) they were massacred not asked to leave
3) they were the original population not attempting to steal the land
4) there were thousands of them not 55
I think they are far bigger differences, than the so-called reparation in your constitution...“oops sorry about the genocide, let's us continue to rule you and steal your resources”
The thief of 19th century, as you indicate was Argentina in 1832, who should have done exactly as you said...negotiated a settlement instead of trying to steal “usurp” the islands...but they didn't...
Then of course you tried to steal them again in 1982...but of course that wasn't Argnetina was it Axel..it was the Junta.
I told you before...you keep stating that both sides have “strong and weak” arguments...that is your opinion..not a fact. Please stop stating it as a fact...
In my opinion,
Mar 16th, 2013 - 09:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don’t think the pope will get involved,
He is aware of he’s popularity and the decline of the church,
And in retrospect, and despite his own opinions he must be well a where of CFK reputation for begging and brown nosing to get what she wants, but when she does not, or is ignored as centre of attention, she will slag of or insult her host,
We think that if he gets involved with CFK it is possible that he could well be the first pope to be brought down by an ungrateful and spiteful woman from his own country,
Getting involved with CFK is a very dangerous occupation to say the least,
We think therefore this pope has enough things to deal with, without inviting a deranged woman into his thoughts,
He will we think remain on the fence..
Still,
CFK will no doubt be throwing darts at his picture in due course ,lol.
Respectfully yours ..
.
It would appear that Jose@62 has been more susceptable to the brain washing than Axel@65. The history of the Falklands is well documented in letters and treaties held both in London and Buenos Aires in addition to official ship records held by both countries. All of which is freely available. Just one example of the way distorcion plays its part is how the argentine position has changed to the “ authorities were expelled” from the ” argentine population were expelled. But here again I am just waisting saliva as this is well recorded but for 50 or more years Argentina has been saying the latter one of the reasons they were successful back in the 60's in getting resolution 2065 passed the UNGA they believed them lol
Mar 16th, 2013 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 02 Marcos Alejandro
Mar 16th, 2013 - 10:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mr. Cameron
I respectfully disagree with you(like the rest of the world)
Britain had “usurped” Malvinas from Argentina, Pope Francisco is right.
What planet are you on!!!!!!! even Brazil is telling you to shut your gobs on the subject. Take a hint Argentina is not the whole world.
An Argentine sitting as Pope, he must have bribed his way to that official title thats what the whole world is thinking. In one foul swoop the Roman Catholic Church has found itself 500 years in the past after all the whole world knows Argentinians are thieves and scoundrels not for nothing have they changed the codes and the locks to the vaults in the Vatican and doubled the guards. When this Pope dies the Vatican will be lucky if its got a Euro left in the vaults as I believe that bitch is crawling up his frock so he can bail out Argentine. Either that or she will be sending her son to do the crawling up his frock.
@69
Mar 16th, 2013 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Axel is getting there slowly...it will take time
At the moment we are agreed up to November 1832....
We can all agree that at that time both the UK and the UP and contradicting (and both pretty weak) claims on the islands, due to historic Spanish and British communities long since vacated.
However, what axel can't see is that the UP in 1832, attempted to ignore Britains historic rights (weak) and usurp the islands...and then complains when the Uk (2 months later) did exactly the same thing back.
Had the UP called a meeting in BA in 1832 and tried to have axels “negotiations” possibly the result might have been different, it certainly would've for poor Mestevier.
It's long since relevant, as are the resolutions from the 1960s, axel absolutely can't see how the 1982 invasion killed it...the brainwashing that “it was the Junta” is still ingrained.
Yes it was The Argentine Junta that you all supported and waved your pretty little flags chearing and shouting and if you would have been sucessful would you have still blamed THE JUNTA ofcourse not like KIirchner is now Kissing the new ITALIAN Popes ass you people would have been kissing Junta ass,you Argentines have a lot to thank the British for.
Mar 16th, 2013 - 10:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 71 well put
Mar 16th, 2013 - 11:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 069 “paragon”
Mar 17th, 2013 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0A “paragon” of stupidity
Now that he's the Pope, he won't ever say that the Falklands belong or don't belong to Argentina again. I think he will honor the “separation between church and state.”
Mar 17th, 2013 - 12:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0I want to say how much I enjoyed the first part of of these opinions, erudite and informative,then of course we get the usual juvenile name calling and insults ,(FROM BOTH SIDES) how tiresome!
Mar 17th, 2013 - 02:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0,your arguments would carry much more weight without them!
,and how about you MERCOPRESS? you need to be much more proactive in keeping these comments readable ,possibly banning persistent offenders.
So the mad bitch will go in to see the Pope, the Falklands may or may not be mentioned, the mad bitch will come out and tell the world that the Vatican supports Argentina..... very predictable.
Mar 17th, 2013 - 05:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0The new mantra:
Mar 17th, 2013 - 07:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0THE VATICAN IS ARGENTINE!
@76:
Mar 17th, 2013 - 08:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Agreed, why dont we introduce a 'thumbs-up thumbs-down' option on every comment?
Then ban these trolls once their comment receives a prescribed amount of bad votes?
And also mercopress, - Please ban the troll's IP address - put a filter on it FFS.
Pope Francis 666.
Mar 17th, 2013 - 08:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0That was a message to everyone and special to Cameron for the Francis I , so .. so Las Malvinas are Argentina. White smoke from San Pedro (Roma) That choice should be respected by Brits living and usurping our Argentina's Malvinas Islands, very clearly the future they , the Argentinen want.......!
Mar 17th, 2013 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0@80 should be serious , The Pope Francis I is 266, please read the Aregntinen neswspaper that do not lie than english newspaper.....!
@52 Didn't. Didn't. Didn't. Didn't. If we ever do, you'll know all about it! Loved the website by the way. The last time I read so much crap, it was a transcript of one of CFK's “speeches”. Did you write it? I thought it was hilarious.
Mar 17th, 2013 - 11:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0@62 What “underestimation”? In point of fact, it seems that we overestimate you. For instance, what is “dobleguemos”? Not any English word I've ever seen. The Islands are actually in the South Atlantic. If you go west for about 400 miles until you reach a dry bit, that's South America. If you look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_history_of_the_Falkland_Islands#20th_century you'll find that Britain offered to take the matter of the Falkland Islands to the ICJ in 1947, 1948 and 1955. You can read the argie response for yourself. Is the 30th time you've been told that UN General Assembly resolutions are non-binding? Or the 40th? And on the subject of hypocrisy, can you explain about the two BINDING Security Council resolutions that argieland IGNORED?
@65 What is it with you? Verbal diarrohea? And your “English” is getting worse!
@74 Help us out here, Jose. So that we can judge your age. When you reach your teens (that's 13) do they give you a brain, or take away the one you had?
@76, 79. Doubtful. I don't think most of the editors actually understand what is being said. And as for the 'thumbs up - thumbs down“ idea, what do you think would happen? Take ”sussie“, and those like her, as an example. Before you know it, they'd all have more aliases than you could shake a stick at. All the Islander, Brit etc comments would get a massive number of thumbs down and all the troll comments an equally massive number of thumbs up. All the stuff sussie comes out with should have got her banned months ago. And notice this, some considerable time ago ”Think” actually did get banned. Somehow he managed to make direct contact with the editors and before you know it he was back. Others send messages - nothing!
@81 Shut it!
The Pope is supposedly a religious man! Therefore this is NONE of his business
Mar 17th, 2013 - 12:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Axel
Mar 17th, 2013 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The key point you always miss is that the Falkland Islanders have the right to determine their own future.
This would never happen but, just to prove to you that Argentina will never get sovereignty. Lets propose the British Govt. wanted to sever any formal connection to the FI. Do you really think the Falkland Islanders would choose to become part of Argentina over Uruguay / Chile or becoming an independent nation.
Also your point about Argentina's constitution protecting the right of native inhabitants doesn't make sense, since the FI had no natives. If you meant that Argentine Govt. constitution protects its people, well so does the Falkland Islands Govt. constitution!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_Falkland_Islands
People have been able to move to the FI for hundreds of years, the current population are made up of many nationalities including Argentine's.
Axel; your country signed away any and all rights to the Falklands in 1850.
Mar 17th, 2013 - 01:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Without a time machine to cancel that treaty of perfection your claims to the Falklands will always have a massive Achilles heal that even Argentine historians & Lawyers admit is impossible to gloss over.
And why you wont go to the ICJ: because you will lose.... forget everything else, forget all the history claims, that one single peace treaty scuppers Argentinas claims completely, irrevocably and absolutely.
Woooooooow.............
Mar 17th, 2013 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Teslyn & Mike meet Obama!!!
https://twitter.com/FalklandsGov/status/312622669528977408/photo/1
Kind of….
@86 Meanwhile, in the real world:
Mar 17th, 2013 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/384676/Hands-off-Falklands-Cameron-tells-Pope
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/384676/Hands-off-Falklands-Cameron-tells-Pope
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/384676/Hands-off-Falklands-Cameron-tells-Pope
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/384676/Hands-off-Falklands-Cameron-tells-Pope
@ 52 MARCOS ALEJANDRO, YOU ARE A LYING WEASEL! ARGENTINA DID NOT EXIST IN 1806 AND 1807, IT WAS STILL A SPANISH COLONY AND BUENOS AIRES WAS A SPANISH COLONIAL CITY. BRITISH TROOPS INVADED SPANISH TERRITORY AS, AT THE TIME, BRITAIN AND SPAIN WERE AT WAR.
Mar 17th, 2013 - 02:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0IN 1845 BRITAIN DID NOT, REPEAT NOT, INVADE ARGENTINA - TOGETHER WITH FRANCE, BRITAIN ESTABLISHED A TRADE BLOCKADE AGAINST THE THE COUNTRIES OF THE RIVER PLATE AREA. THIS WAS RESOLVED BY THE RATIFICATION OF THE ARANA SOUTHERN TREATY - THE TREATY OF PERFECT FRIENDSHIP - IN WHICH ARGENTINA AND BRITAIN BOTH ACKNOWLEDGED THAT EACH HAD NO PENDING MATTERS WITH THE OTHER. THIS IS CONFIRMED BY ARTICLE 7) OF THE TREATY AND IT SHOULD BE POINTED OUT TO YOU AND ALL THE OTHER MALVINISTA WEIRDOS THAT BY THIS TREATY ARGENTINA EXTINGUISHED ALL RIGHTS IT MIGHT HAVE HAD TO THE FALKLAND ISLANDS.
IN 1833 THE BRITISH NAVY ARRIVED AT THE BRITISH FALKLAND ISLANDS TO REMOVE THE ILLEGAL ARGENTINE GARRISON AND TO LEGITIMISE THE PRESENCE OF THE COMMERCIAL INTERESTS OF LOUIS VERNET, A CITIZEN OF FRANCE, WHO HAD ESTABLISHED A HIDE BUSINESS WITH AUTHORITY AND PERMISSION OF THE BRITISH CONSUL IN BUENOS AIRES. YOU WILL, OF COURSE, BE AWARE THAT ALL THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS WERE INVITED TO STAY BY THE BRITISH AUTHORITIES - MOST ACCEPTED THIS INVITATION. SIX OF THE ILLEGALS REQUESTED TO BE TRANSPORTED TO MONTEVIDEO, NOT TO BUENOS AIRES. THE FACT THAT YOU BELIEVE A MYTHICAL VERSION OF THE EVENTS OF 1833 IS A PITY AND IS TO YOUR DETRIMENT - YOU HAVE BEEN BRAINWASHED BY THE FAIRY TALES OF THE ARGENTINE ESTABLISHMENT.
BY THE WAY, BRITISH SOVEREIGNTY OF THE FALKLANDS ARCHIPELAGO HAD BEEN ESTABLISHED SINCE 1785.
I HOPE YOU HAVE A NICE DAY.
@Think Poor poor THINK can not live in his homeland his family fled to Northern Europe because life was not good,so you really do understand deep down why The islanders want nothing to do with your botox Queen they have the same fears your family had.
Mar 17th, 2013 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@88
Mar 17th, 2013 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0IN 1833 THE BRITISH NAVY ARRIVED AT THE BRITISH FALKLAND ISLANDS TO REMOVE THE ILLEGAL ARGENTINE GARRISON AND TO LEGITIMISE THE PRESENCE OF THE COMMERCIAL INTERESTS OF LOUIS VERNET, A CITIZEN OF FRANCE, WHO HAD ESTABLISHED A HIDE BUSINESS WITH AUTHORITY AND PERMISSION OF THE BRITISH CONSUL IN BUENOS AIRES...
Here you can find Vernet´s appointment as governor.
-Archivo General de la Nación Argentina. Fondo Luis Vernet. Sala VII 2-4-6.
On the other hand, I am sure that Her Most Gracious Majesty, has a copy of Vernet´s document “granting him permission” to establish himself in the islands.
@90 Pesky
Mar 17th, 2013 - 05:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yet Vernet had previously asked permission from the British to set up his colony.
Also, since the Islands were still British territory, the United Provinces/ Argentina/ Spain/France/Germany/United States or anyone else BUT the British had the right to make anyone governor.
Making someone governor of territory that isn't yours isn't legally recognised. Otherwise I'm going to appoint my next door neighbour who once visited Argentina, as governor of Mendoza Province.
I mean, if you think it was legal to do that in 1832, then surely it's still legal to appoint people as governor of territory that doesn't belong to you in 2013.
Yet you still have to explain how the United Provinces of the River Plate got sovereignty of the Islands in the 1820's when Britain's sovereignty of them goes back to 1690?
@91
Mar 17th, 2013 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please read Duke of Wellinton thoughts...
”I have perused the inclosed papers respecting Falklands Islands. It is not clear to me that we have ever possessed the sovereignty of all these islands. The convention certainly goes no farther than to restore to us Port Enmont [Port Egmont] which we abandoned nearly sixty years ago.
If our right to the Falkland Islands had been undisputed at that time and indisputable, I confess that I should doubt the expediency of now taking possession of them. We have possession of nearly [f.1v] every valuable post and colony in the world and I confess that I am anxious to avoid to excite the attention and jealousy of other powers by extending our possessions and setting the example of the gratification of a desire to seize upon new territories. But in this case in which our right to possess more than Port Enmont is disputed, and at least doubtful, it is very desireable to avoid such acts.
And you still have to show a copy of Vernet´s document “granting him permission” to establish himself in the islands.
#88
Mar 17th, 2013 - 06:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DON'T BOTHER TO ANSWER MARCOS ALEJANDRO COMMENTS ,,,,,HE IS NOT AN ARGENTINE CITIZEN,,,,
WHAT IN HELL UK PM DAVID CAMERON de POLLITO WANTS NOW?
ACCUSING THE POPE IS SIMPLE STUPIDITY!
CAMERON de POLLITO NEEDS TO STOP CRYING WOLF
HE IS A WIMP!
88 Gordo1
Mar 17th, 2013 - 06:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say:
“BRITISH TROOPS INVADED”
Good for you to be honest querido Gordo.
Always remember this my fellow Catholic:
“Thou shalt not steal”
The British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC)
“Britain's 'forgotten' invasion of Argentina”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4779479.stm
@94 Lying weasel Marcos Alejandro. What I actually posted was “BRITISH TROOPS INVADED SPANISH TERRITORY AS, AT THE TIME, BRITAIN AND SPAIN WERE AT WAR.” No Argentina, no invasion of Argentina! Get your facts right!
Mar 17th, 2013 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am well aware of the Ten Commandments and history clearly shows that it is Argentina which wishes to “steal” the Falklands archipelago NOT the United Kingdom. And the BBC link you show clearly defines the circumstances of the British invasion of Buenos Aires just as I had reported them.
You really must get your facts right in order to establish some kind of credibility - but, then, I must remember you are a simple minded malvinista troll!
@93 - 'Less Britons'
Mar 17th, 2013 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't think you are comprehending what PM Cameron has said correctly. He has not accused, threatened or said anything of that nature about the pope.
He has essentially just warned the incoming Pope to not make the mistake of getting involved.
I don't think it will be a problem anyway given the Pope is instructed on what to say or not say and you can bet this will be on the 'do not talk about list' and even if he did, what is he going to do? The church has become irrelevant when it comes to world affairs and politics and as long as he doesn't get elected into Ban Ki Moon's position, we are all good!
Firstly, the Vernet community is a complete red herring in this story.
Mar 17th, 2013 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Vernet accepted a “governor role” after his arrival on the islands, and actually had already left the islands before the Sarandi arrived in November 1832. He left his deputy Matthew Brisbane in charge. Can any of our Malvinista friends confirm that Matthew Brisbane was then in fact “in charge” of the islands when the Sarandi arrived....and also confirm the nationality of Brisbane.
So..unless we want to further suggest that 1832 usurption actually seized the islands from a British led civilian community..I'd leave Vernet well alone. As previously discussed none of the community were evicted and indeed it is more than possible that there are decendents on the islands today from that community, and are unlikely to have been the “3” No votes...LOL.
So, we get back to the attempted 1832 usurption by the UP...it is interesting that Marcos wishes to bring up the 10 Commandments when looking at these 50 or so usurpers...
In the 60 days that they were on the islands they managed to break:
1) thou shalt not kill...murdering their own Captain Mestevier
2) thou shalt not covert thy neighbours wife....the rape of Mrs Mestevier
3) thou shalt not steal...their usurption of the islands
It is unclear as to whether any of the rapists were also committing adultery, and almost certainly there would have been a fair bit of “bearing false witnesses”
So, at least half of the Ten Commandments broken in just two months of “Argentine rule”. I have no idea as to whether these bandits, murderers and vagabonds were keeping the Sabbath special !!!!! LOL
@97 Monkey
Mar 17th, 2013 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...“Vernet accepted a “governor role” AFTER his arrival on the islands..”
Sure and this was written by the penguins, who named him governor...LOL
-Archivo General de la Nación Argentina. Fondo Luis Vernet. Sala VII 2-4-6.
“...these bandits, murderers and vagabonds were keeping the Sabbath special”
You must be talking of Australia...errrrr my mistake, surely in Australia there were more than 50...
97 Monkeymagic
Mar 17th, 2013 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the final section all you are doing is describing the current character of a significant section of AR.
They may also be 'practicing’ RC and see no harm in doing whatever they want, it is in their makeup to lie, steal, even harm or murder people who defend their property.
In conjunction with the government employees at all levels up to and including the President (imaginary spit onto the floor) the country will never improve unless drastic action is taken.
It seems some in AR are starting to think about it. This from BsAs Herald:
“Municipal Mayor: 'Let's kill those who steal' A Victory Front municipal mayor has flared up the debate over crime in Argentina ratifying his support to the death penalty and affirming that the solution to security issues is to “kill all those who steal.”
Seems like a plan to me.
If I continue the logic that previous ownership gives current rights, does that mean that because Britain owned large swathes of North America but lost them in a war then Britain owns the USA.
Mar 17th, 2013 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If I follow the Argentinean Government's assertion that self-determination should be ignored then the fact that the inhabitants of the USA do not wish to be British should not be considered.
Absurd isn't it.
So explain to me the position of the Argentinean Government with regard The Falkland Islands.
Just received the following from a Latin American friend:
Mar 17th, 2013 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The new pope definitely is NOT an Argentine! Had he been an Argentine he would not have selected FRANCIS as his papal name - he would have been Jesus Christ II!
Actually Pesky it was written in mrs Vernets diary, as presented by CFK at the Decolonization committee. I am sure a smart girl like you can find the quote.
Mar 17th, 2013 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So, if an absent country, in this case the UP can select the leader of a 20 strong civilian business on the islands and call it “sovereignty” in 1828, the British can do the same in 1833. The leader was Brisbane, he was already British and was happy to remain on the islands...until he was murdered by Rivero.
Forget Vernet..it's a red herring, it loses you far more than it gains...go back to your “removed Argentine authorities” LOL...
@99 indeed, there's quite a bit of waking up going on... Couple of comments from La Nacion summed things up: “Enough with these Islands” and “CFK is like the guy who worries about a weed in the back garden, when his house is burning down behind him”.
Mar 17th, 2013 - 09:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's looking like CFK has played the FI card far too much, broken record style. And like the country, she's ruined it for the next guy.
MONKEYMAGIC. STEVE U. K. ANNBAR.
Mar 17th, 2013 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0MONKEY: If i think that the u. k. had right to occupy the islands, is because of it's occupation of 8 years in port egmont (1766-1774). However, i explained you how the discovery is considered according to the international right, and i told you also about the bases of our claim. For all these rasons, i think that the u. k. should have negotiated a peaceful solution with our country.
Despite the 2 monthes that our authorities populated the islands, like it or not, the u. k. deprived arg. Beside, read what i type for steve and annbar.
STEVE: Accept it or not, the right to self determination has never been applied for this cause by the u. n., as it was for other colonial situations. Respecting the referendum, arg., the u. k., and all ther rest of the world know perfectly that it's irrelevant, in fact, it wasn't supervised by the u. n. On the other hand, i recommend you to search in the news archive of this website, what was expressed by the president from the decolonization committe, a few days before the referendum, in relation to the right to self determination.
ANNBAR: I have never omitted the periods of silence of our cuntry, in reference to it's claim for the islands. Beside, the signed agreement in 1850 didn't have anything to do with this cause.
Anyway, it would be honest to take into account the huge economic dependence that arg. had with the u. k. since XIX century, and for more than 100 years. So, it was obvious that it wasn't in conditions for claiming the empire for it's rights over the islands.
On the other hand, between 1884-1888 arg. suggested taking the case to the arbitration, and the u. k. rejected it. Beside, in 1947 the u. k. proposed to take just the dependecies to i. c. j.
Despite all these aspects, in 1969, 1974, and 1980, the u. k. negotiated with arg. about this question.
All these facts show that the case has strong and weak aspects for both nations.
Pope or no Pope, Argentina has no hope : D
Mar 17th, 2013 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have never omitted the periods of silence of our“ cuntry”
Mar 17th, 2013 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A Freudian slip ?,
Well, Camoron has got something right at last and it starts tomorrow at 08.50 hrs.
Mar 17th, 2013 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TMBOA is going to be the first world leader who Frankie Baby, the new popsicle, is going to meet.
Imagine the scene at 08.30 hrs:
Flunkie: ‘but your holiness WTF issa this whore you are ayseeing atta 08.50 hrs?
Franki Baby: no needa to worry! The Cosa Nostra hava said they will taka cara of the Whore of Babylon before she canna speaka de words “Las Malvinas son argentinas”.
Ha, ha, ha.
Sounds like Correa want a batch of the cancer drug...
Mar 17th, 2013 - 10:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'Rafael Correa insists on reform of the OAS - The Ecuadorian President said that an attack is the colony that keeps Britain in Las Malvinas, which nor the Organization appears on the topics dealing'
http://www.vtv.gob.ve/articulos/2013/03/17/rafael-correa-insiste-en-reforma-de-la-oea-1615.html
Well worth a read...
'Very hard article in El País against the Argentine Falklands claim'
http://www.vtv.gob.ve/articulos/2013/03/17/rafael-correa-insiste-en-reforma-de-la-oea-1615.html
'Calafate invasion: Falklands natives under threat from an Argentinian force of nature '
http://www.vtv.gob.ve/articulos/2013/03/17/rafael-correa-insiste-en-reforma-de-la-oea-1615.html
'Chronicle of a referendum foretold: What next for the Malvinas/Falklands? - The latest referendum shows that posturing alone won't end the dispute between Argentina and the British.'
http://www.vtv.gob.ve/articulos/2013/03/17/rafael-correa-insiste-en-reforma-de-la-oea-1615.html
'Terragno: “I do not see why the Vatican has to intervene in the Falklands”
http://www.vtv.gob.ve/articulos/2013/03/17/rafael-correa-insiste-en-reforma-de-la-oea-1615.html
'The pain of the war still lives on a daily basis in the Falklands'
http://www.vtv.gob.ve/articulos/2013/03/17/rafael-correa-insiste-en-reforma-de-la-oea-1615.html
@105 frankd
Mar 17th, 2013 - 10:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Put away that naked gun frank.
Yep, the pope can command his flock but gone are the days when popes led armies or sanctioned war. Mind you the vatican was dismal in WW2. Still Queen Elizabeth is the head of our Church and she's definetly no malvinista!
God willing, lets hope the new Pope will make sorting out Argentina one of his top priorities. I might just light a candle in church tomorrow and pray for this and for the only real beacon of hope and democracy in South America, the Falkland Islands. Naked gun back in holster lol
Mar 17th, 2013 - 11:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The current Cardinal Archbishop of Tegucigalpa, Honduras is the most qualified cleric in Latin America and who is he most obvious candidate for election as the next Pontiff”
Mar 18th, 2013 - 12:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well, it didn't happen.
The Pope of 1.2 billion Catholics is from my beloved Argentina.
Enjoy it.
Get used to it
I wonder how long we the Argentinians will let all these populist leaders keep lying us with the fake of Falkland/Malvinas myth to hide real problems . As for the referndum of course it was well done but I think it would be very interesting indeed to do one here in Arg ...I think more people than we imagine support your wishes to be independent or ruled by UK.- it is not easy to listen people express this free and what's more important to know that an importan percentage may think this way may be a big defeat for CFK, but govt cannot lie and use the island excuse forever.
Mar 18th, 2013 - 01:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0@112patagonico
Mar 18th, 2013 - 02:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you, Patagonico. The islanders really appreciate hearing what you say.
They are only people trying to live a peaceful life in the islands thst have been the home of their community for 180 years.
It is really a big relief for them to hear that there are Argentinians who do not hate them with every breath.
They wan
@ 113 Troy
Mar 18th, 2013 - 02:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0In my opinion one example of explore the point of view of the people here are forums . Most of them are in the media that keep opossed to the govt yet. At them you can listen many anonnymous views- there is still much fear of being ostracized - who actually believe in living in peace with people in the FI. It is just not ethics to claim to invade and occupy another land, sooner or later we will have to learn it. Good luck:)
It is hard to remove the arrogance from this British morons. We have for parts in the process as follow:
Mar 18th, 2013 - 02:52 am - Link - Report abuse 01- Make them to see that the rest of the world is not longer using terms such as
“Democratic Monarchy”.
2- Make them to see that the Americas no LONGER WANT MONARCHIES IN ITS TERRITORY.
3-Make them to see the term “ Extended Territories” DOES ONLY APPLY TO COLONIALISM. AND THE WORLD HAS DECIDED THROUGH A UNANIM RESOLUTION IN THE UN.
1/ I still can't find anyone using the term “Democratic Monarchy” - so hard to get them to stop now isn't it?
Mar 18th, 2013 - 03:21 am - Link - Report abuse 02/ If the Americas no longer want monarchies, then what did the vote just tell you? Also someone really needs to talk to Canada, Belize, Jamaica and several others.
3/ What the hell is an “extended territory”? Why do people keep making up terms that no one uses?
I can't understand the last part but I think I made my point. And I didn't have to call anyone a moron (no use stating the obvious).
( 114) Patagonico
Mar 18th, 2013 - 06:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Before comenting on your post........
Would you do me a favour....?
Would you translate a some of your own text into correct Spanish for me?
Try this:
“At them you can listen many anonnymous views- there is still much fear of being ostracized - who actually believe in living in peace with people in the FI. It is just not ethics to claim to invade and occupy another land, sooner or later we will have to learn it.”
Just to be sure that I'm responding to a real Argentinean, you know... and not wasting my time with yet another “Smart” English troll.
Saludos Chubutenses
El Think
It is odd that each malvinista who posts here seems never to present the same version of Argentina's claim as the others. They seem to be confused - as, of course, they must be because none of their “basura” is accurate!
Mar 18th, 2013 - 06:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Wonder how quickly he will bankrupt the Vatican?
Mar 18th, 2013 - 08:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Axel
Mar 18th, 2013 - 10:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0In 1811 the islands were empty, uninhabitted. It is debateable that as all previous populations had withdrawn voluntarily, all previous claims were foregone. I would suggest this is the strongest BY FAR position in 1811...i.e there was no sovereignty.
However, there was a lingering British claim, due to its history of first landing and its historic claim at Port Egmont plus plaque...pretty weak.
There was a Spanish case, based on their their historic and considerably longer base on the islands, and that there was nobody on the islands to declare “independence” along with the other territories 1000 miles away.
A final claim could be that sovereignty passed from Spain with the rest of the Viceroy, through the UP, and finally to Argentina. Again, pretty weak.
So, its probably fairest to say that whoever could “colonise” the islands next was entitled to sovereignty.
I cannot see how the Vernet business was a colonisation attempt, although the subsequent naming him as UP “military and civil commander” in 1829 is a blatant attempt to do this...however as he left the islands prior to 1832 and never returned one can assume that the post was also vacated..or perhaps passed to the British subject Matthew Brisbane.
So, again, it all passes back to those 2 months in 1832.
I do not accept that the British acted improperly within the context of the time. there were a set of uninhabitted islands at least 1000 miles from either country. The UP tried to seize them and the British peacefully removed them 2 months later.
Given the considerably worse ways in which both Argentina and Britain “land grabbed” in the Americas and elsewhere, and that all of these lands are entitled to “self-determination”..it would seem massively hypocritical to deny the islanders the same rights.
Your suggestion that the AR constitution provides reparation to the indigenous is ridiculous..How about we add to the FI constitution that any Argentines remaining post 1833 have equal rights??
A Malvinas War veteran himself, Domínguez said the first image that crossed his mind when he echoed the news about Bergolglio’s election as Pope was “the Argentine flag in the South Atlantic territories”
Mar 18th, 2013 - 11:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0These people need to seek some professional help, how can a whole a country and indeed the people that run a country be so deluded! The more i read about this the more scary it is and it turned deadly in 1982, there are totally mental!
Also if “god” wanted the islands to Argentine, wouldnt he have made sure they won the war!!! FOOLS!
111 Marcos Alejandro
Mar 18th, 2013 - 11:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0“my beloved Argentina”
How so, if you live (and work?) in the UK.
Or are you a spy?
Ha, ha, ha.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/9934810/Argentina-slams-disrespectful-David-Cameron-for-daring-to-rebuff-Pope-over-Falklands.html
Mar 18th, 2013 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How desperate are these morons.
#111
Mar 18th, 2013 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So, 115 Cardinals vote to elect a new Pope, while the 1.2 million R.C.'s have NO say in the matter.
Democracy at its best !
@104 axel
Mar 18th, 2013 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I do try and listen to what you say, so here is a potential solution:
You draw a parallel between Argentinas occupation of the indigenous people's land in South America and Britains “occupation” of the Falklands.
There are many many reasons why I don't agree with this, mostly associated with the fact the Ameriindians were in SA for millennia not weeks, the Argentines didn't have a prior claim before them, the British committed no genocide to claim the territory (in fact nobody was hurt at all), and that the Amerindians numbered hundreds of thousands not fifty.....but getting past all that....
You have suggested that a peaceful and eternal solution between Argentina and the Amerindians has been possible because reparation has been made to the indigenous people remaining in the territory after the genocide. This is enshrined in the Argentine constitution.
I therefore suggest that the most appropriate and comparable “peaceful and eternal solution” for the Falklands would be for them to enshrine something similar in their constitution...
I.e. any member of the UP militia who didn't board the Sarandi in 1832 (I.e. wasn't slaughtered in the genocide) should have full and equal to the islanders and share in the wealth of the islands.
It's an academic exercise, as for all the Vernet civilians this is already the case, and to my knowledge none of the UP militia remained on the islands (survived the genocide).
As you appear happy that Argentina has made amends with this approach, perhaps you would be equally happy with the islanders doing the same?
@ 125 Monkeymagic (#)
Mar 18th, 2013 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now your just making too much sense, the argies wont understand it!
Seriously, these lot are mental, they are still claiming something is “beloved” to them when they werent even any settlements there, its just crazy the way they are going on. I think the rest of the world is getting bored with these stunts now, if it was up to me i would be tempted to boot the twats out of the UK , they arent our friends and just try to cause as much trouble as possible, bbut I think that might be playing into their hands
@124 Clyde15: And now he is an absolute monarch.
Mar 18th, 2013 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Democracy at its best?
Cameron was right, CFK did speak to the Pope about the Falklands.
Mar 19th, 2013 - 01:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0#127
Mar 19th, 2013 - 09:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0IRONY !!
MONKEYMAGIC.
Mar 20th, 2013 - 02:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry for my dely, it's good to read from you that you recognize that the u. k.'s claim over the islands in 1833 was pretty weak. In fact, i have never denied that our rights were fragil too , because after our country declared it's independence, it could not start the occupation of the islands, due to it was going through periods of intern wars.
In my opinion i think that both nations had rights to occupy the islands, that's why the u. k. should have negotiated a peaceful solution with arg., or maybe share the administration of the archipelago, instead of depriving arg. of exercising it's rights.
The comparison that you don between the population from the islands, and what happened with our originary populations, is nonesense, because if arg. couldn't continue with it's ccupation over the islands, it wasn't because it had decided to leave the archipelago, it was actually because it had been deprived by the u. k. of exercising it's rights, beside, it wasn't in conditions to face a war with the u. k.
What the british empire did in 1833, was to take advantage of the weak situation that our country was going through in that moment.
In my opinion a fair solution would be to resume the negotiations with arg., and consider what c. f. k. read last year before the u. n., which was a secret proposal treated between both governments in 1974, which refered to a shared sovereignty. That proposal respected the wish of the islanders of remaining under british government, and included argentina's rights too.
Beyond what happened in 1833, which is something that must be taken into account, but we can't ignore that nowadays that the population from the islands feel british, that's why we need to find a solution that includes their wishes, and argentina's rights.
axel
Mar 20th, 2013 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree partially...
Both countries had rights in 1832 (not 1833)
Argentina ignored Britains rights and attempted to usurp the islands in a blatant act of 19th century colonialism. Britain only retaliated in kind.
However, the comparison with the indigenous n Argentina is not nonsense.
What you have said is that post occupation (and genocide) you offer those remaining a chance to have equal rights. This ignores the rights of the 10,000s murdered but you seem to think this is acceptable.
I offer the same. post eviction, the Falklands offer equal rights to all Argenines remaining on the island (this is de facto the current position).
There will be NO SHARED SOVEREIGNTY. Argentina has no right to sovereignty, they lost that right when they attempted to usurp Britains rights in both 1832 and 1982.
MONKEYMAGIC.
Mar 21st, 2013 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The argentine people who live in the islands have equal rights to the islanders, in fact, they expressed it during the last referendum.
On the other hand, i think you are very confunsed. If both countries had rights over the islands in 1833, ¿then why do you consider that arg. lost it's rights in 1833?.
If both cuntries had rights, both should have negotiated in order to find a solution, accept it or not, what the u. k. did was to take advantage of the weak situation that arg. was going through. There was nothing in 1832 and 33 which allowed britain to deprive arg. of exercising it's rights.
In reference to 1982, as long as the u. n. continue calling both nations to resume the negotiations, and reject the application of self determination for this case, as it was expressed by the president from the decolonization committe, both countries should respect those resolution, beyond u. k.'s right to veto.
Firstly, both countries had very weak claims in 1833.
Mar 21st, 2013 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UP COMPLETELY IGNORED Britains claims and tried to usurp the islands in 1832. Therefore, Britain evicting them (only 50 or so, murderers and mutineers) was retaliating to this usurption.
However, given that they were uninhabitted by civilians, they were pretty fair game for anyone who could populate them.
However, that time has gone. As you recognise, Argentines and Britains borders are both unrecognisable from 1833, and self determination is a right of all people.
The UN do not say ANYWHERE that self determination is not a right of the islanders, nor do they say ANYWHERE sovereignty should be negotiated. They say that Argentina and Britain should find a peaceful solution...
The Decolonization veiws is irrelevant if it's a sovereignty dispute...none of their business...and if it's about Decolonization then they should be interest only in the islanders...which it clearly isn't.
However, I disagree with you that a weak claim 180 years ago, not backed up with any population adds up to a viable claim today...99% of the planet would be disputed if that were the case.
Certainly, the Amerindians have a stronger claim on Argentina, than Argentina does on the Falklands. Germany have a stronger claim of most of Poland and the Ukraine, China have a claim on parts of Vietnam as does France. It is ridiculous.
It is especially ridiculous when you look at the behaviour of the UP in 1832, Argentina in 1982 and again in the last 10 years.
The “minuscule” “rights” that you think you might have had in 1832 were ruined by the attempted usurption in 1832, your military invasion in 1982 costing 1000 lives, your bullying of the islanders in the past 10 years and the fundamental right to self-determination.
133 Monkeymagic (#)
Mar 22nd, 2013 - 12:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Very well put indeed. The argies claim has only really surfaced after WW2, when the UK was giving back land, the UK doesnt have a problem giving back land to the natives. The reason why the UK wont give the argies the land is because they have no right at all, it maybe thousands of miles away but 300 miles is still a fair distance and you cant even see them from the argies mainland, they are in intentational waters.
It doesnt matter about 180 years now anyway, its too late and to clam now and it doesnt matter who settled there, they now have rights.
The argies need to shut up and grow up, its like my neighbour coming around and insisting my car is his and offering me talks on ownership, needless to say he would get the door slammed in his face!
Marcos Alejandro (#) Mrs. K. is always talking about “dialogue” - but she never listens to what Britian or the Falklanders has to say. If you are serious about a dialogue, start by reading this article which sets out the British position on this issue: “False Falklands History at the United Nations. How Argentina misled the UN in 1964 – and still does” . The text is 14 pages long and is available in both English and Spanish at: http://www.falklandshistory.org/
Mar 23rd, 2013 - 04:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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