Friday, April 19th 2013 - 05:33 UTC

Argentine Catholic Church criticism of judicial reform triggers ironic statements from Senator

The Cristina Fernandez administration renewed relations with the Catholic Church, since the naming of Cardinal Bergoglio from Buenos Aires Pope Francis could be facing their first challenge because of the controversial judicial reform the Argentine president is pushing through congress.

Senator Fernandez on clash with bishop: “I might turn him into Pope”

One of her most outspoken Senators and former cabinet chief, Anibal Fernandez blasted the Catholic Church’s criticism of the justice reform considering it a position “riddled with inaccuracies” while he added that bishops’ statements are a “severe mistake”.

“Every time the Episcopacy gets involved in terrestrial affairs it makes a severe mistake. That old saying Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God should be recalled” Senator Fernández stated.

Staying true to his style, the ruling party lawmaker wondered ironically if the current dispute with the president of Argentina's Episcopacy José María Arancedo over the judiciary system could lead to his appointment as Pope.

“I might turn him into Pope. I once had to argue with another Argentine bishop” Fernández joked in reference to Pope Francis with whom he clashed with several times when ex cardinal Jorge Mario Bergolio still headed Argentina’s Episcopacy.

On Tuesday, almost a hundred bishops that attended the Plenary Assembly of the Argentine Episcopal Conference (CEA in Spanish) urged the government to gain prior “debate and consensus” in order to pass the justice reform project.

The Catholic leadership issued the statement “Justice, Democracy and National Constitution” alleging that a “quick address” of the bill could “weaken Republican Democracy” and calling for the protection of “powers' autonomy”.
 

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1 Troy Tempest (#) Apr 19th, 2013 - 06:00 am Report abuse
Looks like “For God and Country” does not apply in CFK's Argentina!!

And to think that Francis let her kiss his... ring.

:-(
2 Porto Margaret (#) Apr 19th, 2013 - 08:07 am Report abuse
#1

Yes, she soiled his holy ring with her lips.

Nasty brown nosed Pinocho!
3 LEPRecon (#) Apr 19th, 2013 - 09:03 am Report abuse
Ah the honeymoon is over.

Now that the Argentine government realises that it can't use the Pope, and by extension the Vatican, as a political tool, they're back on the attack of the Catholic Church.

Now I'm not a fan of the Catholic Church, it needs huge reforms, but saying that I don't disagree with everything they say and do. The Catholic Church in Argentina is trying to publicise the plight of the poor and dispossessed. Issues that the Argentine government are content to brush under the carpet and ignore.

So well done Catholic Church, in this particular case, perhaps there's hope for you yet, and Pope Francis appears to want to make real changes to the Church and reform in. Long over due, in my opinion.
4 Conqueror (#) Apr 19th, 2013 - 11:35 am Report abuse
We can at least be sure that when a member of the Kirchner party criticises anyone, those criticised are doing the right thing!
5 British_Kirchnerist (#) Apr 19th, 2013 - 12:11 pm Report abuse
So the church of Francis stands up for crooked judges, how depressing. Just like with the Cameron appointed old Etonian oilman Justin Welby, I fear I was right to hope he didn't get the job =(
6 Simon68 (#) Apr 19th, 2013 - 01:27 pm Report abuse
5 British_Kirchnerist (#)
Apr 19th, 2013 - 12:11 pm

The crooked judges are all on the kirchnerist side, Oyarbide and his ilk!!!!!!

The Catholic Church in Argentina is asking the (mis)government to DISCUSS the judicial reform project with the opposition parties in order to reach consensus, in other words to apply the democratic practice to a problem that is threatening the Argentine people with fascist autocracy!!!!!!

Nowhere does anyone, even Anibaul Fernández, accuse the Pope of “standing up” for crooked judges!!!!!
7 Troy Tempest (#) Apr 19th, 2013 - 02:50 pm Report abuse
@5 BK

That's some of your most brazen bullshit, BK !

You really are the arch-propagandist, aren't you?

You've learned your craft well - with few words you managed to spread your Lie, inflame the opposition, discredit the honest judiciary, and discredit the RC Church which is only asking for a consensus between the Peronists and the Opposition.

You've demonstrated your opposition to true Democracy on this thread, as well as being pro-totalitarian of some flavour or other.

On other threads, it is obvious that you are concerned about distribution of wealth, but not the living conditions of the poor.

You are definitely pro-communist Cuba and anti-US. Even with the liberalism of Obama's attitude toward LATAM and Cuba, you shun the US. Not wanting them playing in your sandbox? What IS your ideology that drives you, BK?
8 Simon68 (#) Apr 19th, 2013 - 03:40 pm Report abuse
BK is an old time fascist trying to project itself as a socialist!!!!!!!
9 British_Kirchnerist (#) Apr 19th, 2013 - 04:58 pm Report abuse
#7 “On other threads, it is obvious that you are concerned about distribution of wealth, but not the living conditions of the poor”

Rubbish. Its improving the conditions of the poor, along with the long term sustainability of the planet, that makes me a socialist. If everyone was well off and some people were richer than others, that would be fine; but that's not how the neoliberal free market has ever worked in practice I'm afraid

“You are definitely pro-communist Cuba and anti-US”

I definately support Cuba against the US blockade and assasination, coup etc attempts, but I'm not against America as a country; far from it, theres much to admire in the US, not least a brilliant if often hidden history of radicalism. I just don't think its healthy for one country to effectively rule the world. And talking of health, isn't it a bit telling that a poor country like Cuba has a higher life expectancy than the richest country in the world???

“What IS your ideology that drives you, BK?”

Democratic socialism; the tradition of Keir Hardie, Nye Bevan, Tony Benn, George Galloway, Dennis Skinner etc
10 screenname (#) Apr 19th, 2013 - 06:24 pm Report abuse
Is George Galloway a socialist???
11 British_Kirchnerist (#) Apr 19th, 2013 - 07:01 pm Report abuse
#10 Yes, like the others I mentioned
12 Don Alberto (#) Apr 19th, 2013 - 11:33 pm Report abuse
Beautiful, ain't it?

First the president begs the pope to do something about the Falkland Islands, then her ex-cabinet chief says “Every time the Episcopacy gets involved in terrestrial affairs it makes a severe mistake.”
13 yaghan (#) Apr 20th, 2013 - 03:03 am Report abuse
#12: “Cuiusvis est errare; nullius nisi insipientes, in errore perseverare” Marcus Tullius Cicero
14 Gordo1 (#) Apr 20th, 2013 - 08:00 pm Report abuse
The latest church news from Buenos Aires, as reported in the Bs As Herald, is the enthronement of the successor of Pope Francis as Archbishop of Buenos Aires - he is introduced as the Cardinal Primate of Argentina.

I wonder who has appointed him as a Cardinal - perhaps la Kretina?
15 Captain Poppy (#) Apr 20th, 2013 - 10:43 pm Report abuse
#6 Simon you shouldn't bother debating with BK. He knows more as a self proclaimed Scottish communist that has never been to Argentina.......BUT HE READS. I mean....what could you possibly know being an Argentine and living and feeling the effects of kirchner's policies.

I think in the end he is a la campora indoctinate ghosting as someone else, like most of the trolls here. I hope the anti Pope and Catholic rhetoric explodes in the kirchnerites face as the Argentines really love Francesco and have a lot of pride in him as a Pope.
16 yaghan (#) Apr 21st, 2013 - 12:34 am Report abuse
#15: Cannot believe you found something in Argentina worth praising! Are you out of your mind?
17 Captain Poppy (#) Apr 21st, 2013 - 02:14 am Report abuse
I never said I blanketly hates Argentines, because I don't, just the government. But I am not sure what I praised?
18 yaghan (#) Apr 21st, 2013 - 03:24 am Report abuse
#17: ourI love and pride for the Pope. Maybe I misread something here?
19 Captain Poppy (#) Apr 21st, 2013 - 03:45 am Report abuse
No you didn't....You Argentine's do love and have pride that the Pope is an Argentine, there is nothing wrong with that. As I said....I have no hatred for Argentine's......maybe the communist trolls here. This yanqui married a Portena. Your government disturbs me for the deceit and and misery it inflicts on it's citizens.
20 Anbar (#) Apr 21st, 2013 - 11:49 am Report abuse
lol - did somebody really just suggest Galloway as somebody serious?

really?

Galloway - self-proclaimed cat, general clueless buffoon, publicity seeker and friend of terrorists and dictators... the man is a very pathetic joke who does little other than try to be outrageous so as to give himself publicity... his only ability is his desperate need for publicity - that is the sole measure and extent of the man.
21 Conqueror (#) Apr 21st, 2013 - 04:21 pm Report abuse
@9 Don't be ridiculous. Galloway isn't “socialist”, he's anarchist. As is Skinner. why didn't you continue your list? Did you think that listing Amin, Mussolini, Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin might have put us off?
@18 Pride is a sin. Don't you read your Bible?
22 British_Kirchnerist (#) Apr 21st, 2013 - 05:27 pm Report abuse
#14 “The latest church news from Buenos Aires, as reported in the Bs As Herald, is the enthronement of the successor of Pope Francis as Archbishop of Buenos Aires - he is introduced as the Cardinal Primate of Argentina.

I wonder who has appointed him as a Cardinal - perhaps la Kretina?”

Unlikely they'll be that lucky - that only happens here, where Cameron was able to appoint fellow old Etonian and longterm oilman Justin Welby as head of the Church of England, for him to counsel patience with the austerity programme in his first adress (even though we are now becoming the poster child of failed austrity even with the IMF and the Americans!) Meanwhile a cardinal who never opposed the junta but ostentatiously defied Cristina's democratic and leftist government is made Pope, all in all a bad year for religion and some more proof Marx had a point about it; but thankfully my faith in God has a stronger basis than the official churches...

#15 How do you know Argentines prefer the Pope to Cristina - did you read it somewhere? See what I just did =)

#20 “lol - did somebody really just suggest Galloway as somebody serious?”

I did. And I think its an ironic commentary on Britain today that our most serious MP is a former Big Brither contestant =)

#21 “Pride is a sin. Don't you read your Bible?”

So is killing, yet you fantasize about that a lot...
23 Captain Poppy (#) Apr 21st, 2013 - 06:28 pm Report abuse
BK I've been there more times than I can count, as recently as January and February of 2013, more than you can say. My wife's family lives there, I have numerous friends that I know face to face that live there. So no, I did not see what you just did, tell me what you just did?
And to be definitively specific, please point out where I stated Argentine's love the Pope more than anusmouth kirchner? But now that YOU mention it, that is reasonable to be correct.
What did you just do again?
24 Simon68 (#) Apr 22nd, 2013 - 01:23 pm Report abuse
I have just carried out a small survey to see if the Argentines prefer Pope Francisco above the president, the results are the following:

Number of people asked in survey: 32

Prefer Pope Francisco: 29

Prefer President: 0

Don't have opinion: 3

Voted for FpV: 18
Voted for UCR: 7
Voted for FAP: 6
Voted PST: 1
25 Gordo1 (#) Apr 22nd, 2013 - 01:31 pm Report abuse
Re my 14.

The Buenos Aires Herald, Monday 22 April 2013, has realised its mistake and has down graded the new Archbishop of Buenos Aires by withdrawing the title they gave him of “Cardinal Primate of Argentina”.
26 British_Kirchnerist (#) Apr 22nd, 2013 - 11:28 pm Report abuse
#23 “What did you just do again?”

Asked if you were doing what you accused me of, basing your opinions on reading =)
27 Captain Poppy (#) Apr 22nd, 2013 - 11:44 pm Report abuse
first hand accounts BK, nothing beats experience.
28 British_Kirchnerist (#) Apr 23rd, 2013 - 12:39 am Report abuse
Indeed. Maybe if you got to know some real Arabs, rather than believing the likes of Fox News, you wouldn't thinl they were all barbarians who deserve to be nuked...
29 Captain Poppy (#) Apr 23rd, 2013 - 01:38 am Report abuse
Is all commies live with preconceived dispositions of people you know nothing about? Fox news.....really BK, you can't come up with better prejudices than that for me? Again BK......whether it's arabs or argentines, I speak from what my eyes have seen, I call them barbaric for extremely personal insights.....unlike you believe that argentina is a wonderland. You like fathers beheading their daughters? Perhaps it's raping the women getting raped for going to school, or the wife publically beat because her face accidently shown....your kind of refined humanist.....right BK?
BTW, you're truly a fool. The middle east is larger than Iraq. But than again........I am sure you culturally align with them, but you probably forget the Iraq/Iran war.....one of the thousands the fought between the arabs and persians.
30 British_Kirchnerist (#) Apr 23rd, 2013 - 08:51 am Report abuse
#29 “You like fathers beheading their daughters? Perhaps it's raping the women getting raped for going to school, or the wife publically beat because her face accidently shown....your kind of refined humanist.....right BK?”

No, of course I don't, if I was that misogynist do you really think I'd accept Cristina as a great leader? Or a car driver, for that matter! Even if I'm wrong about her as a person, the fact I support her means I'm no binladenist obscurantist! But even on the most basic level, even if that really was the uniform experience of the region, two wrongs dont makje a right and it doesn't mean we should “turn the sand into glass” as you so charmingly put it...

“but you probably forget the Iraq/Iran war”

Not at all, I often remember it as the time that we were arming Saddam to the teeth, another great triumph of Anglo-American foreign policy right?

“whether it's arabs or argentines, I speak from what my eyes have seen, I call them barbaric for extremely personal insights”

So now you think Argies are like Arabs, and you want to nuke Arabs...does the wife know this?!
31 Captain Poppy (#) Apr 23rd, 2013 - 09:53 am Report abuse
You reached perfection as an ass. You veer off every topic and attempt toput words in my mouth. I use arabs and argentines in the same sentence in reference to experience and now you take it to nuking argentines.........you are an extemist in all things you do. If you are an example of Scots....that explains a lot.
32 British_Kirchnerist (#) Apr 23rd, 2013 - 05:05 pm Report abuse
#31 “If you are an example of Scots....that explains a lot”

What can it possibly explain about Scots???

“you are an extemist in all things you do”

But I'm not the one who wants to nuke anyone...
33 Captain Poppy (#) Apr 23rd, 2013 - 06:35 pm Report abuse
So........what.

I believe enemies should more than capitulate. Regardless of my stance on the middle east. Don;t assume anything about me, create words I have never said unless you point to where I said them.
And yes she know my disposition on arabs.
34 British_Kirchnerist (#) Apr 23rd, 2013 - 11:31 pm Report abuse
#33 “I believe enemies should more than capitulate”

What more can they do than capitulate? And what would you do if they do capitulate then, massacre them?!

“And yes she know my disposition on arabs”

And Argies?
35 Captain Poppy (#) Apr 24th, 2013 - 12:08 am Report abuse
Yes, she does. Re-read #17. I have stated that position hundreds of time in the news site. You read my posts because you respond, so I know you have read that in the past.
36 British_Kirchnerist (#) Apr 24th, 2013 - 11:44 am Report abuse
#35 Glad you don't blanketly hate Argies. Willing to admit there may be good Arabs, too?!
37 Captain Poppy (#) Apr 24th, 2013 - 02:03 pm Report abuse
I have NEVER said I hated any ARgies other than thr trolls that live elsewhere yet post here supporting anus face kirchner.
38 British_Kirchnerist (#) Apr 25th, 2013 - 12:48 pm Report abuse
#37 And Arabs...
39 Captain Poppy (#) Apr 25th, 2013 - 03:29 pm Report abuse
depends on the tribe. Arabs expand well east and all the way to Alegeria and Morroco. Everything in between are tribes of beduin in nature, but shit loads of tribes. The Beduins are ok, it's the urbanites that a treacherous

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