Thursday, July 18th 2013 - 08:55 UTC

Argentina to apply ‘neutral Spanish’ dubbing to foreign films, television series and programs

The Argentine government has put into practice the 'Dubbing Law', which establishes the obligation to dub films, foreign television series, advertisements and program announcements into neutral Spanish.

We are Argentines, “only Spanish please”

The measure was taken through the use of Decree No. 933, published on Wednesday in the Official Bulletin, in which it was also stated that the dubbing recording should take place in Argentina itself.

The entity in charge of applying the new rules will be the AFSCA, which will also hand out fines to media and distributors who do not comply with the new standards.

The income raised through fines, according to Decree 933, will be used by the Fund for Cinematic Development created by law No. 17,741.

The dubbing “must be carried out in a neutral Spanish, respecting the current use of said language in our country, but also making sure all of Spanish-speaking America will be able to understand,” the decree specifies.

The move comes just one day after President Cristina Fernandez, speaking at the re-inauguration of the Gaumont cinema, vowed to enforce dormant laws on dubbing already on the statutes.
 

117 comments Feed

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1 agent999 (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 09:33 am Report abuse
The “dumbing down law”.

How do they hope this will work with on-line content ?
2 CaptainSilver (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 09:45 am Report abuse
In the worlds most successful nation Germany, every child learns English from age 6. English is the universal language, this dumb law deprives English speakers of the chance to exercise their language skills and interact with the rest of the world. How they hate us, and how they continually shoot themselves in the foot. Argentinean kids get taught lies and propaganda instead. What a load of plonkers.
3 DJ56 (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 10:31 am Report abuse
A similar law was strictly enforced in Franco's Spain. The main reason was to make it easier for the censor to remove speech which did not meet the dictator's peculiar standards (anything vaguely left wing, liberal, democratic or even mildly sexual was banned, as were critical references to naziism, fascism and the catholic church) without creating an obvious gap in the action. Wonder what la kirchner is planning next .....
4 Justthefacts (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 11:01 am Report abuse
An argentinian friend of mine speaks excellent English. She studied it all through school but says she learnt almost nothing there- it all comes from watching English language television and film. I suspect it's the same for many Argentinians. And now CFK wants to cut off a major source of learning of the world's most useful language at a time when it's people need every skill and commercial advantage they can get.
5 Heisenbergcontext (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 11:03 am Report abuse
Perhaps it's a matter of personal taste, but when watching foreign language films or television I always prefer to hear it in the original language. I actually LIKE the sound of french, spanish or cantonese. Dubbing just sounds crude to me. And as for insisting it take place in Argentina...just silly.
6 yankeeboy (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 11:34 am Report abuse
A further removal from the civilized world.
Typical of Dictators
As I have been saying in a generation the avg Rg will not be able to communicate with the outside world.
7 Mendoza Canadian (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 12:04 pm Report abuse
She doesn't have anything better to do??? Like lack of bread, flour, sugar, tomatoes, inflation, crime?
8 Chicureo (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 12:27 pm Report abuse
This has been going on for many years and CFK is just enforcing the current stupid law. In Chile, the Spanish we speak is a poor imitation of our mother tongue, but in Argentina.... . Educated Columbian is probably the most neutral Latin American Spanish accent.
Meanwhile the economy spirals downward...
9 agent999 (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 01:00 pm Report abuse
another freedom of choice disappears
10 GFace (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 01:15 pm Report abuse
Sounds like a rent seeking move on behalf of translators and a way to slow inflow if non-Spanish entertainment. I await to see how they plug the leak that is online viewing.

@6 no doubt one side “feature” will be to further enbubble Argentines into seeing less and less natural foreign content and more and more through a filter of Argentine “Nationalism” and PanLatam “sensibility.” Can't let those subversive Norte facts, comments and opinions get in the way of the metanarrative.
11 screenname (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 01:40 pm Report abuse
“...respecting the current use of said language in our country...”

Or disrespecting the languages of indigenous peoples in 'Argentina'?

Trying to create national unity through uniformity: how very National Socialist.

I would like to have said that I was surprised that CFK had decided to respect the current situation over some history or mythology, but I think we all know the only thing consistent about malvinistas is their hypocrisy.
12 ChrisR (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 01:45 pm Report abuse
“The dubbing “must be carried out in a neutral Spanish, respecting the current use of said language in our country, but also making sure all of Spanish-speaking America will be able to understand,” ”

I know I am learning Espanol in Uruguay, but I regularly read Clarin to help me understand the language and I have very little difficulty reading the articles themselves. The greatest difficulty is understanding the ‘comments’ written in response to the articles; Google cannot handle it either. When I mentioned this to my teacher of Espanol she laughed and said ‘don’t worry, you have been to the Planet of the Apes!’

I can see what she means.
13 Stevie (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 01:47 pm Report abuse
Spain dubs.
Germany dubs.
Argentina dubs.

It's not about you lot and your belly button...
14 Optimus_Princeps (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 01:59 pm Report abuse
What the hell? Where is she getting this retarded idea from? Is it because her tub of lard Maximo doesn't like the fact that his favorite cooking shows are in English, or her terrible soap operas?

She needs to get a life and worry about anything else except dubbing.
15 Stevie (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 02:01 pm Report abuse
14
Do you even understand what you read?
You think the English movies aren't dubbed today?

And you lot call us trolls...
16 yankeeboy (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 02:03 pm Report abuse
When I lived there the Rgs were proud that their shows were in English with Spanish subtitles and said they hate the dubbed shows because they're all done in Mexico or PR and they sounds stupid.
17 Optimus_Princeps (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 02:07 pm Report abuse
Of course I'm aware that they are dubbed. She has no business making is mandatory. People should have choices. Many shows have dialogue which is poorly dubbed, and voice actors often make the movie sterile and it loses its emotional impact.

People need options. Restrictions often destroy businesses. Not like she isn't used to it by now.
18 Stevie (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 02:11 pm Report abuse
17
If you really think that, that people need options, you have loads of work to do in your own country before having a go at Argentina for wanting to dub in a language the whole subcontinent can understand.
Snowden comes into mind...
19 GFace (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 02:31 pm Report abuse
@15 Fascist apologia, and clueless apologia at that. If someone wants to dub “Space Battleship Yamato” from Japanese to French and then subtitle it in English or Spanish (which they DID! odd that, but great for brushing up on my French), well gosh darn it, that is their choice. But CFK is wanting to take such choice away, for reasons that don't jive with common sense (unless you read more cynical motives into it). Similarly what is wrong with spanish subtitles for work that is clearly geared towards an reading audience (kiddie vid clearly excluded here)? As previous posters (especially #4) have said there is considerable educational value in keeping the audio track native and adding accurate subtitles. There is no reason NOT to permit subtitles if the distributors feel that dubbing will remove the intent and nuance of the characters or speakers message. As Yank and OP imply, even if you have no clue in the local language, the natural tones and expressions that seep through in the native tongue with decent subtitles make viewing far more enjoyable than if they're all speaking like they're from next door.

I can assure you that if US cable providers were required Univision all of their broadcasting from telenovelas or Sábado Gigante (or anything with Jane Horrocks) dubbed in “Standard” American English with everyone sounding like they're from eastern Kansas (I mean WHAT would be the point?!?) you'd be screaming bloody murder and crying that the policy was racisst (and rightfully so). But what time is it? It's LatAm Double Standard time.
20 Stevie (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 02:33 pm Report abuse
19
Tell that to the Germans, “the worlds most successful nation”...
21 Pugol-H (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 02:34 pm Report abuse
@13 Stevie
Many European countries, including Germany, deliberately show things like the latest Disney movies in English without dubbing or sub-titles.

As this helps particularly the younger generation to learn English.

Considered important by many countries.

As Spanish (Porteno or otherwise) is not in danger in Argentina/S. America this move is not about protecting Argentine culture/language, but is entirely about preventing foreign ideas and thinking from reaching the Argentinian population.

Further isolating them from the rest of the world.
22 Stevie (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 02:35 pm Report abuse
21
The Germans dub everything, including door slams...
23 GFace (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 02:36 pm Report abuse
@18, Uh why should we dub Snowden's interviews, or as I'd prefer, subtitle them?

Oh wait. Stevie lost the argument. Time for whataboutery.

Loser.
24 Stevie (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 02:39 pm Report abuse
Hahaha GFace, nice cloud you hit there ;)
25 Faz (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 02:39 pm Report abuse
Oh! Did I hear a squealing kid? Someone change his nappy please...
26 Pugol-H (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 02:53 pm Report abuse
@22 Stevie
You have obviously never been to Germany, and probably don’t even know any Germans.

In fact you talk complete and utter rubbish.
27 Stevie (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 02:59 pm Report abuse
You think that might do it Faz? You see, the Germans dub, and they are referred to as the “most successful nation on the world”, which makes one think if the dubbing is an essential part of their success. Surely not, though, wouldn't you agree?
The Argentines watches shows dubbed into Mexican, Venezuelan or Porteño. Now they wish to dub into a dialect that everybody can understand easily. This makes you lot have a go at Argentina for whatever less processed reasons you lot may come up in this thread.

So I don't thing changing the nappy will work, Faz. Their hatred for Argentina goes far beyond the nappy.
And the belly button...
28 GFace (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 03:08 pm Report abuse
@27 “The Argentines watches shows dubbed into Mexican, Venezuelan or Porteño. Now they wish to dub into a dialect that everybody can understand easily. ”

No. CFK doesn't want Argentines to hear anything other than what Argentine translators overseen by a government agency think that they should hear. If it happened anywhere else it would be called fascism. But in this case, it's.... predictable.
29 reality check (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 03:16 pm Report abuse
I guess there will be a shortage of prime entertainment in Argentina, for a while at least. No self respecting broadcaster would want to give this woman any money.

Fast becoming a way for her to raise easy cash, fines.

Wonder if she has ever heard of speed cameras!
30 Stevie (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 03:20 pm Report abuse
GFace
Fascism is the surveillance, spying and the removal of human rights of political opponenent. Like the Snowden case, like the cameras in public Places, like Guantanamo.

Just to put things straight.
31 yankeeboy (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 03:22 pm Report abuse
Only in a delusional state could anyone compare anything in or coming from Argentina with something about Germany.
What a laugh.
Sad too tho
32 reality check (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 03:27 pm Report abuse
You forgot the one about denouncing your neighbours, you know, like who have undeclared dollars or try to make a living from running a business at a profit. Those neighbours!
33 Stevie (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 03:28 pm Report abuse
www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21523643

Have you lot ever been to Germany.

It's really amazing the amount of misinformation and at times insubstantial crap that comes out of you lots fingertips...
34 Tik Tok (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 03:29 pm Report abuse
Raddy ra ra ra Stevie.
As usual this will probably have unintended consequences. Like drops in movie attendences in preference to watch a pirated movie in English at home. Less consumption and less economic activity and Argentina further down the gurgler.
35 reality check (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 03:37 pm Report abuse
Hey, what is the pirate DVD market like in Argentina?

I smell a smart business opportunity for some enterprising young Argentine here.
36 GFace (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 03:38 pm Report abuse
@30, Coerced national (as opposed to “class”) identity by national fiat combined with heavy and unreasonable government control of private enterprise, such as the entertainment industry, are key elements of textbook fascism. Your attempts to change the subject from spying and Guantanamo, especially when people here who openly oppose these matters, is a pathetic move to deflect from this artless attempt at either a) rentseeking by translators but more likely b) artless message control from the government with but of revenue enhancement is weak. There is no reasonable justification to make dubbing of broadcast and screen media overseen by an argentine government agency mandatory when a genuine market may exist for subtitles and non-spanish broadcast. And if no market exists, they'll fall off as soon as management realizes that they aren't selling enough laundry detergent between breaks or brining in pesos at the box office. Other countries revel in being able to bring foreign film in the natural languages via subtitles. Those that don't look xenophobic and afraid of an outside message sans control being delivered to the people. It just looks BAD.

You lost the argument, big time, including from native spanish speakers here. If you want to talk about Snowden or Guantanamo or ChimpyBushMcHitlerBurten, there are places on the web, including relevant stories in MP, to do it. Trying to divert this thread and other threads into whataboutry simply highlights the folly of what CFK is doing -- by virtue of your p!ss poor job of defending it by deflection.
37 Faz (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 03:48 pm Report abuse
Perlese, someone attend to the nappy and stuff a dummy in his face to shut him up. I think he is teething, he drivels all the time .
38 agent999 (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 03:49 pm Report abuse
Stevie

There is no law in Germany preventing the broadcast of films or programs that are not dubbed in German !

This article is about making it illegal to broadcast films or programs that are not dubbed in Spanish.
39 GFace (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 03:56 pm Report abuse
A quick newsjog has comments from Argentine News sites are coming in. They are not favorable. Perhaps people do NOT “wish to dub into a dialect that everybody can understand easily.” Traitors.

I really like how while they are not the enforcers of the law which will be installed incrementally, the people who will be receiving the fines can ”the National Film and Audiovisual Arts Institute (INCAA) will have 60 days to approve the sanctions that will fall upon those who break the law.” No Conflict of Interest on that one there, eh? Yeah. This is a great idea.
40 Sir Rodderick Bodkin (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 04:03 pm Report abuse
That is plain fucking stupid. i like to watch movies/series in the original language, not with some dubbing bullshit.
This norm is only for the lazy and ignorant who don't want to read subtitles, i learned english mostly from games, series and movies, aside from school. Thanks to this, i can even watch movies without subtitles.

Thank god internet exists and i can easily download movies and my favourite tv series (Not trying to advocate piracy), or watch it through Netflix. in its original language.

This is why i don't watch TV at all. Everything i need is in my computer and i can acquire it through there.
41 raul2 (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 05:35 pm Report abuse
7 Canadian Mendoza
She has nothing better to do??? Like the lack of bread, flour, sugar, tomatoes, inflation, crime?

You Pathetic and unfortunate:
It shows that you do not live in Argentina. I get the $ 10 bread, sugar in all supermarkets, the rise Tomatoes intermediaries monopolies vegetables, inflation is under control. Holidays are record for all hotels are filled by tourism and there record car sales 0k.
Crime is infinitely greater in Canada to have a structural insecurity for its cultural racism.

You do not seem Mendoza, Argentina least. All of us are proud of the president of all Argentines.
She fights against economic and media monopolies trying to enslave us.

Cristina has done a lot for Argentina to defend the principles of political sovereignty, economic independence and social justice.

Give up hatred and resentment towards your country. Ponte Argentina shirt and leaves the shirt of racism, colonialism and imperialism of the 21st century English.

Mail: face1354@hotmail.com
42 Simon68 (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 05:39 pm Report abuse
18 Stevie (#)
Jul 18th, 2013 - 02:11 pm

“... 17
If you really think that, that people need options, you have loads of work to do in your own country before having a go at Argentina for wanting to dub in a language the whole subcontinent can understand...”

Stevie, Mr. Optimus Princeps IS Agentine!!!!!!!!!!!
43 Pete Bog (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 06:03 pm Report abuse
Again CFK is going to feck up things for viewing audiences.

I haven't a clue about the Italian in 'The Postman', (Il Postino?), but if it was dubbed into English it would sound crap. What if the actor playing Pablo Neruda spoke with an English accent?-It would be farcical! I put on subtitles as I don't know Italian, but if it were dubbed in English, the whole atmosphere of the movie would be lost.

And why Malvanista's do you speak Spanish?

That was not the language of the original indigenous Argentines so I would be more impressed if CFK dubbed the movies in the language of the Qom for example.
44 CaptainSilver (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 06:14 pm Report abuse
Raul! You are tomatoes! Is your shirt with swaztika? No hatred exists in Britland, just mirth, we like a good larf, hohoho, RGland is so entertaining with more than 17,000 laws! Great pity no-one observes them? Now, el Prrrrresidenti is dictating on all films to expunge English babble and cut Argentinos off further from civilisation. Have you ever heard of fools paradise? Government attempts to control all media sources were fictionalised in a book 1984. Other aspects were covered in a book called Animal Farm. In both books simple folk like you are controlled by a corrupt government. The last full scale examples have been Nazi Germany, Cuba, South Korea and China in the 1970s. Your view of RGland is conditioned by those posters you see everywhere and government propaganda. Just a tip, get a better auto translator...
45 yankeeboy (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 06:17 pm Report abuse
You'd think she'd be worrying about the Hospitals not being able to import the medical supplies they need.
Who would ever go to an Rg Hospital,
They were bad when I lived there I can't imagine what they must look like now without any imports for 2 yrs.
46 DanyBerger (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 06:21 pm Report abuse
@CaptainSilver

I love the idiots here when talk all the time about things that they don’t know.

“In the worlds most successful nation Germany, every child learns English from age 6. English is the universal language”

Not true, in the world most successful nation also many learn Spanish, Italian and French.

And also in Germany dubbing English speaking movies is a big business where the 80% of foreigner films and TV programs showed on screen are dubbed into German and also video games, etc.

So you have to see Jack Sparrow from “Pirates of the Caribbean” speaking in German.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN_OhJWURWU

And if the companies don’t provide a so called “fairness compensation” according with the success of the film you can be sue. Because according with German copyright law performers (such as actors and dubbing actors) can be considered as authors provided that their creative contribution to a work amounts to an intellectual creation in its own right.

The majority of dubbing companies are located in Berlin, Munich and also in Hamburg and Cologne.

And there is also a “dubbing award” for the better dubbed films from Hollywood into German like the Oscar of the dubbing.

Also France has a Dubbing law and Italy if you say Batman they look at you as thinking WTF is that when showing a pic or video ah! “l'uomo pipistrello”. Ha ha

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOUqmBYIiHI

www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3pSfLphTDQ&NR=1&feature=endscreen

And is so fanny to see all American films in Italian Rambo saying “Io te amazzo” “dio canne” ha ha

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET8bMURROaM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VdDA6xNoNo

None of you have ever been in Europe because you will realise the silly or your post guys or “muchachos” (according with Arg. Dubbing law)?.
47 Sir Rodderick Bodkin (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 06:25 pm Report abuse
@41

They brainwashed you good, don't listen to this fool.
How many choripanes did they give you for that?
48 JamesS (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 06:43 pm Report abuse
@41. Raul, spoken like a Ultra K... Brainwashed fool who believes he speaks on behalf of the entire country....
49 Briton (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 06:44 pm Report abuse
Wrtuip ljhgfds lkjnbvc mbjyr
Trhng vcunc vgfh nhh
Dubbed meaning double dutch.

Hey the whole world dubs, I can’t understand foreign leaders making speeches unless someone dubs the damm thing,

I don’t like sub titles they go to fast, some good foreign films I can’t watch unless they are dubbed, now some of you will say dubbing is bad as it ruins a film,, some will say it’s good,

I say, it’s to every one’s own taste, is this not fairer.
Just a thought…..
.
50 pgerman (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 06:44 pm Report abuse
I have read really quite stupid comments (or hatred ones) either from british people or my fellow countrymen in this site. But your comment that: “Crime is infinitely greater in Canada to have a structural insecurity for its cultural racism”...is much more than I can tolerate.

Really it's quite ofensive to Canadian people...Canada must be one of the safest countries all around the world. With less racism all around the world as well.

I know that for peronist people Argentina is a sort of paradise. No poverty, no inflation, no corruption...and the very few bad things always come from outside the world, from the IMF, from the “Empire”.

But really, write that “Crime is infinitely greater in Canada to have a structural insecurity for its cultural racism”...is too much...
51 britanico (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 06:51 pm Report abuse
“Yet, a recent article published in the Italian daily newspaper La Repubblica reported a growing demand among the public for original language films, citing the influence of increased online streaming, television channels with multilingual options and a greater knowledge of English among the younger generation.”

Brilliant - so Film&Arts, which shows BBC and ITV series in the original language with Spanish subtitles, will now have to dub this -
www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5IjfLPwXT4

Jorge Luis Borges had it right.

southerncrossreview.org/65/borges-dubbing.htm

Germany is successful in spite of the fact it dubs, not because of it. The dubbing industry in Germany dates from the 1930s, when a guy called Aldolf Hitler came to power. The Dutch, Flemish Belgians and Scandinavians watch all foreign TV programmes and films in the original language with subtitles. Are they 'less successful' economically because of that?

Ironically, Salazar in Portugal banned dubbing, not because he wanted the Portuguese to learn other languages, but as a way of protecting the local film industry and stopping illiterate people from watching foreign films. In some Indian states, they ban dubbing to protect their languages - articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-04-17/hyderabad/38615463_1_dubbed-films-telugu-natti-kumar

In Brazil, the attitude to dubbing is so different, they even use a different word - 'dublagem' instead of 'dobragem'.

And I'd much rather watch Argies dubbed in Portuguese than listen to them talk in so-called Castilian - www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfp9U9Cmw9A
52 pgerman (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 06:57 pm Report abuse
There are some concepts that are interesting here. It's quite evident that CFK has plenty of thing to take care of. It's quite obvious that either she is not aware of the real magnitude of the problemas or she cannot find a solution so she prefers to waste her time in useless thinks.

She might be trying to divert public's opinion..who knows?

Dubbing is quite an issue everywhere all around the world. I personally hate dubbing. I prefer movies or progran in the original version but I know that some contries prefer dubbing to protect hte native language or to promote jobs.

Being able to listen other languages helps to learn and to practice them.

But anyway...I can't keep out of my mind that “Crime is infinitely greater in Canada to have a structural insecurity for its cultural racism”...is too much...for God's sake !!!!
53 ChrisR (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 06:57 pm Report abuse
Don't know what they will do with the DVD's they sell across SA.

We have the joy of an argie 'importer' fronting the DVD's that I buy in Uruguay and also ‘enhancing’ the titles. True Grit is, would you believe ‘Temple De Acero’ or Temple Of Steel. It might be a copyright problem of course but at least the film is the same.

Had to buy an area 4 Blu Ray (Panasonic) to play them on and because the country language resides in the machine it automatically selects Espanol and it cannot be defaulted to English on start-up but I wouldn’t mind if the subtitles were even close to the actual spoken word. And, yes I do know subtitles are never correct because of the need to ‘shorten’ them to fit on the screen.

So every time I use my R4 I have to reset the language selection, which also allows me to select Dts for my state of the art 7.1 theatre setup (eat your heart out Malvanistas). The importer does not do ‘modern technology’ in Espanol only stereo!
54 GFace (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 07:21 pm Report abuse
@49 Yes, but you can at least have a right to a choice. You can get a DVD of a Japanese film with english, spanish and cantonese dubbing and also multiple choices of subtitles. I'm just fine with that. Heck you can even get the Japanese film dubbed in to english and watch the hearing-impared captioning in Japanese, whatever floats your boat. It's a matter of making it a) suspiciously mandatory, b) giving the people play a role in the enforcement a direct line of cash from the activity*. That last bit is really just too much!

* Original Article: www.todotvnews.com/scripts/templates/estilo_nota.asp?nota=nuevo%2FTV+Abierta%2FPa%EDs%2F2013%2F07%5Fjulio%2F17%5Fcfk%5Fley%5Fdoblajes

* And with English subtitles ;-) : www.todotvnews.com/scripts/templates/despliegue_imprimir_con_foto.asp?nota=10047535&numero=
55 britanico (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 07:49 pm Report abuse
Correction to my earlier post: it doesn’t affect cable or satellite channels.

‘I am learning Espanol in Uruguay’.

No, you are learning Spanish. Since when has Spanish been called ‘Español’ in English? It’s silly enough when non-Western languages are referred to by their indigenous names (like ‘Bahasa Indonesia' instead of ‘Indonesian’ or ‘Kiswahili’ instead of ‘Swahili’) when they’ve got perfectly good English ones, but a Western one like Spanish? As

‘I know that some countries prefer dubbing to protect the native language or to promote jobs’.

No, because they’re too lazy to make their own films and television programmes. I remember in South Africa seeing American series dubbed in Afrikaans - now they make their own series. Not bad at all for a language with only 6 million speakers.

The craziest thing now is that the Czechs and Slovaks used to watch TV programmes in each other’s languages without difficulty, whereas now they're dubbing them. www.radio.cz/en/section/ice_special/as-the-two-cultures-grow-apart-czech-tv-dubs-slovak-serial-for-first-time
56 CaptainSilver (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 08:44 pm Report abuse
@Dunnybugger
I am in Germany all the time. I live in England and do technical translation for German engineering and software companies. It's you that don't know what you are talking about. If you live in a backward backwater like I suspect you do, you know nothing and talk drivel. All German kids learn English from age 6. One was sitting at my table last night an exchange student from Holfeldt near Bayreuth. You continually talk horseshit which confirms our view that RGland addles your brain.
57 Stevie (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 08:52 pm Report abuse
42
Simon, just about as Arentine as you...

51
Britanico, shows are dubbed in many places, yes. The thing is when these lot belly button complezs fully exposed when somebody chooses a language that is not in them to comprehend... And if that country happens to be Argentina, well, then we're talking about fascism.
You see, fascism is all about dubbing movies into Spanish (dubbing it into German is being “successful”), and it has absolutely nothing to do with denying peoples right to privacy, Guantanamo or issues like that.
That's democracy...
58 Condorito (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 09:07 pm Report abuse
On the article:
This is just unnecessary control freakery and all that can be expected from big state. As far as choice goes, well I would wager that in Argentina more films are downloaded for free than seen at the cine. So it's not like people can't get their native language films if they want. Plus DVDs always have language options.

Re. the banter:
I agree with Stevie, in terms of big brother state this is small fish compared to Snowden's revelations.

Re. Germany being “the worlds most successful nation Germany”
You have got to be joking! In what way on earth is Germany the most successful nation!?!?!
59 ChrisR (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 09:25 pm Report abuse
55 britanico

We already have one ranting idiot from Britain, goes by the tag of Conqueror.

He does however, from time to time, come up with something eminently sensible and worth reading.

I await your attempt at doing the same.
60 Stevie (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 09:44 pm Report abuse
You are right Chris, they are everywhere these days those, what did you call them? “Ranting idiots from Britain”?
We have a bunch in Colonia, Maldonado and Rocha...
61 Ayayay (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 09:55 pm Report abuse
i read elsewhere that it will be 'neutral language', but mandatory to be dubbed IN Argentina. Or else it's not allowed.

also, dubbing is cheesy.
62 razdaman (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 10:09 pm Report abuse
why are kfc and timmy pointing to the skys
63 Anglotino (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 10:17 pm Report abuse
Ugh not with a porteño accent!

Thank God I built my Spanish on a Bogotano accent.
64 Anbar (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 10:22 pm Report abuse
There's some real nonsense being written in this thread, most of it totally irrelevant too boot.

point 1) mandatory dubbing - this is a BAD thing. NOT dubbing, but it being mandatory.

point 2) the dubbing must be done in Argentina. SO, should a film already dubbed into Spanish, but done outside of Argentina, it must be re-dubbed (into Spanish) within Argentina.

Both of those salient points should illustrate the absolute stupidity of such actions and the enforcement of decisions upon an entire populace without them having any choice, or say, in the matter.

Rather like the EU in fact....
65 Stevie (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 10:39 pm Report abuse
Anbar, but of course they have a choice, they choose another President for next term, something that is mandatory as well, It's called democracy and I think the ancient Greeks came up with the inicial idea.
66 britanico (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 10:40 pm Report abuse
57 No, dubbing has nothing to do with success, it’s a sign of xenophobia. The Americans and British should have banned it in Germany and Italy after the war. Portugal lifted its ban on dubbing, but only children’s programmes are dubbed. People in Portugal would rather watch Hollywood movies with subtitles than dubbed in Brazilian Portuguese.

59 ChrisR Ay, pobrecito. It’s like calling Brazil ‘Brasil’, which you thought was ‘polite’: it isn’t. I have never heard a native Spanish speaker of any nationality refer to the language as ‘Español’, sometimes I've heard ‘Castilian’ , but ‘Español’? Never.

And what erudite, culturally sensitive and politically correct jurisdiction are you from, pray tell?

‘I await your attempt at doing the same.’

Read comment 51: you might learn something about the world.
67 Stevie (#) Jul 18th, 2013 - 10:48 pm Report abuse
britanico
Loads of Uruguayos refer to the language they speak as Español. Me included.
Some say Castellano, nobody says Castilian,
68 Captain Poppy (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 12:06 am Report abuse
WTF! Nothing like the government telling you what to do by telling you what language you should listen. Way to go Argentina......Take their pensions, take their U$, steal private businesses, control the News now censure the Arts & TV? The slippery slope for Argentine's gets steeper and faster every few months.......are you noticing Argentina? Should have seen it coming when they outlawed importing books. If they can mandate what language you can listen to........seriously, what does come next? Visa and travel restrictions are around the corner....they already told you last year where you should vacation at.......breaking the ice on that subject.
69 britanico (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 12:54 am Report abuse
@67 In which language - English, Spanish, or Spanglish? We call people from Uruguay ‘Uruguayans’.

I only refer to the Falklands as ‘Las Malvinas’ in English in sneer quotes, and because ‘the Malvinas’ would suggest I were an Argentine stooge.

I wonder if CFK will demand that BFBS TV in the Falklands must show everything dubbed in Spanish. Now that *would* be delusional!
70 Stevie (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 07:55 am Report abuse
britanico
You are free to call us whatever you like, we call ourselves Tanos, Negros, Charruas, Yoruguas, Orientales, Gallegos, Canarios... But we don't speak “Castilian”, that much I can assure you... ;)
71 Pugol-H (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 12:21 pm Report abuse
@55 britanico
A few years ago my Czech Au Par told me that, as she had grown up watching TV in Slovak as well as Czech, being taught both at school, and speaking Slovakian to her Slovak Grandmother, she was quite comfortable in the language.

Whereas her younger niece born since separation, and growing up without these influences could barely understand anything in Slovakian. Dubbing may well now be necessary.

However Poles and Slovaks seem able to communicate quite well.

I have heard it called ‘Español’ in Miami, Mexico, Catalonia, Galicia and Andalusia. This may well have been for my benefit of course.
72 earsup (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 12:35 pm Report abuse
There are many countries where it is a custom to dub. I do not watch films that are dubbed. Actors ar also actors with their voices. And it looks stupid to see a Chinese actor in a Chinese environment, speaking in any other language than Chinese. The bizarre thing in Argentina, is that it is made into a law. A government should not meddle in artistic products. Next step perhaps translated books only? Or no more films, books, paintings, music made by non-Argentinians? How sad.
73 ChrisR (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 12:58 pm Report abuse
66 britanico

Read my posts for the last 2+ years if you are that interested.

I see Stevie has already corrected your obvious error regarding Espanol, as has Pugol-H; I knew someone would.

I did read your post at 51 but could not tell how much you knew about anything given your use of others work.

The way you conduct yourself is symptomatic of 'argies’; perhaps, after all you are one: would YOU like to tell the rest of us where you come from?
74 DanyBerger (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 01:14 pm Report abuse
@CaptainSilver

In your previous post:

“In the worlds most successful nation Germany, every child learns English from age 6. English is the universal language, this dumb law deprives English speakers of the chance to exercise their language skills and interact with the rest of the world. How they hate us,...”

You give the impression as German success is due to English leaning, what is of course a tendentious lie.
I corrected you because “children” can be open to many interpretations as can be someone under age, teen, etc depending in what country you are using the term.

So again in Germany people (in general) like to learn other languages English is the most widely “Taught” for many reasons that is not the scope to clarify here but not the most popular to learn when depends on personal decisions. Because one thing is that your school or parents force you to learn English and other thing is when you can desire what language you like more to learn freely.

That is the reason while English is the most “Taught” when compulsory together with French (the second Language) and Spanish is the most popular when people can freely chose like in secondary schools, universities, or just for fun, etc.

That is the reason while English only increase 3% of learners in Germany equal to French 3% but Spanish grown more than 20%.

And also is the reasons why just the “Cervants Institute” from Spain has more than 3 learning Spanish centres in Germany (Alemania) Bremem, Hamburg, Munich and Berlin and the former is the biggest in the world outside Spain.

Now to hypocrites here:

The English monolinguals here complaining about dubbing and freedom of languages and subtitles on movies when they don’t tolerate in this forum a single word other language.

Why don’t we start to post in different languages in this forum and just provide them subtitles?

That would be very funny Idiots.

@ChrisRambo

Yes, you are right this time is “Español” the right term.
75 britanico (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 01:20 pm Report abuse
@70 The only people I know who call Spanish ‘Castilian’ in English are from Argentina. I never accused you of being from Argentina, did I?

@72 Some people call refer to Spanish spoken in Spain as ‘Castellano’ in English to distinguish it from the varieties of Spanish spoken in Latin America, but it’s still pretentious.

Czech and Slovak are still much closer to each other than Argentine Spanish (which uses ‘vos’) is to Mexican Spanish (which uses ‘tú’). Although the ‘Flemish’ in Belgian call their language Dutch, not ‘Flemish’, they often subtitle Dutch people speaking Dutch on TV in Dutch, and sometimes even themselves - www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsygx1Tlhec
76 Pugol-H (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 01:45 pm Report abuse
@74 DanyBerger
The ability to do business in English is a factor in German success, but only one factor.

I’m told Chinese is also a popular 3rd language choice in Germany.

English is the medium of communication here as it’s the one everyone can understand. Otherwise you may as well post in Swahili or Aramaic for all the communicating you will be doing.

I would point out the “monolinguals” her are free to go Spanish language sites if they wish, as indeed are you.

Why don’t you dub the BA Herald while you’re at it.
77 hnam (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 01:49 pm Report abuse
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubbing_%28filmmaking%29

Before arguing about law vs choise / habbit, did you know there is a French law making dubbing mandatory since 1947 ?

Anyhow I guess any (fake) reason is good to have a bash at evil Argentina, right?
78 Pugol-H (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 02:31 pm Report abuse
@75 britanico
Argentines told me they speak “Cartajano” drive Automoviles down Cajes and call on Celulars, and when they don’t have a car they take a bus.

In Spain they said Castillano, Coches, Calles, movils, and when they don’t have a car they fu*k a bus.

Makes me wonder what this “neutral dialect” is they are going to use.

@77 hnam
Rod for their own back, in this case.
79 Simon68 (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 03:05 pm Report abuse
57 Stevie (#)
Jul 18th, 2013 - 08:52 pm

Quite right, saludos from Chos Malal!!!!!!!!!
80 reality check (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 03:21 pm Report abuse
On the subject of Germany, I have just read that Bert Trautman has passed away at the age of 89 in Spain.

Sad news. True gentleman and a sporting legend.
81 GFace (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 03:35 pm Report abuse
Jiminy Christmas, It really doesn't register does it. The people who will directly benefit from enforcement get to play a part in the adjudication. That alone should send bullhockey detectors to 11. Even with parking tickets, the meter maid's line is “tell it to the judge,” not to the city works dept.
82 raul2 (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 04:08 pm Report abuse
79 simon68

Very true, Greetings from Chos Malal

If you Argentino. Why do you hate both the Argentine and Latin American? Did you Nazi or a special breed?
83 britanico (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 04:09 pm Report abuse
@73 I read your post saying you thought you were being ‘polite’ calling Brazil by its Portuguese name in English. Nobody will think any more or less of you for not writing ‘Brasil’.

Lo siento, hombre, I thought the language of this forum was English, pero parece que it’s been changed to Spanglish, in which the name for Spanish is ‘Espanol’, without a tilde. Hence the confusion about using a word from Spanish to replace a perfectly acceptable word in English in what appeared to be written in English. Quizás Uruguayans say ‘estoy estudiando english’ cuando hablan their language.

I back up what I say with documentary evidence - the academic world works on that basis. Even Wikipedia articles are now referenced, with many statements having ‘citation needed’.

I’m from the southeast of England, now living in the southwest of England. I speak Spanish and Portuguese, but not Spanglish, you’ll have to teach me that one. I have written at length and in detail arguing against Argentina’s claim on the Falklands, which, while not precluding me from being from Argentina, makes it highly unlikely.
84 ChrisR (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 04:16 pm Report abuse
74 DanyBerger

Thank you.

75 britanico

It seems, as I thought, that I was correct about Español.

We are still waiting to find out which country you come from. Given the bravado of your posts you don't strike me as a wallflower: you are not ashamed of where you come from are you?
85 Simon68 (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 04:41 pm Report abuse
82 raul2 (#)
Jul 19th, 2013 - 04:08 pm

“... If you Argentino. Why do you hate both the Argentine and Latin American? Did you Nazi or a special breed?”

WTF do you get the idea that I “hate both the Argentine and Latin American”????

What I hate is peronism in all its different shades, it has ruined our country, pulled it down from being one of the richest countries in the world in 1948 to being one of the least finacially viable countries in 2013, and that is quite a record in 65 years!!!!!!!
86 raul2 (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 05:27 pm Report abuse
85 simon68

With the respect that you deserve, your problem is not Peronism. If you are truly Argentine, you have to support Argentina sovereignty of the Falkland Islands. This conflict transcends ideological boundaries. Both anti Peronist Peronist and agree on one point: The Falklands are Argentine.
All Argentine political spectrum from Right to left, from liberal to social movements supports the sovereignty of Argentina over the islands.

So because it supports racism, colonialism and imperialism of the 21st century English on this board?

Mail: face1354@hotmail.com
87 Simon68 (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 05:41 pm Report abuse
86 raul2 (#)
Jul 19th, 2013 - 05:27 pm

You are absolutely wrong on this, Raúl, about 77% of Argentines support the “Malvinas Myth” and about 33% do not and I am proudly part of the sensible 33%!!!!!!!!!
88 GFace (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 05:45 pm Report abuse
@86 and every good german believes that the Sudetenland is German. Your views are no different, unrealistic and down right toxically nostalgic for a period where people where tossed from airplanes, families broken up by forced crony adoption, and being able to drop a dime on your neighbors and have at them via the state. A period of which all of that would have been forgiven, so long as you got your national pride by having land that was never yours and by oppressing “foreigners” who have lived and developed their land for well over a hundred years before you made YOUR Dirty War (and its proposed high-cost extension) their problem as much as yours in YOUR racist, YOUR colonialist and YOUR imperialist invasion in 82 -- which I might add was explicitly declared illegal by the UNSC by telling you to get out, period.

(Fascism. THAT is what it looks like, Stevie.)

If Simon's respect for the right for the Islander's fundamental human right to live their lives in peace and freedom - and consequent refocussing of Argentine interests on... genuine important and neglected Argentine interests, is treason, he should, as the saying goes, proudly make the most of it.
89 Mr Ed (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 06:03 pm Report abuse
Once it is the State's business whether films are dubbed (or not), then you know that a totalitarian mindset is at work. 'Tutto dentro dello Stato' as Benito said.

In 1980s Portugal, foreign TV was subtitled, and this helped me learn Portuguese, and presumably Portuguese learn English. Spain dubbed at that time, badly, but I knew Spaniards who watched programmes from the USA subtitled in Portuguese without speaking either language.

Germany dubbed very well, I watched an English-language film in Berlin dubbed, and it synched well, I had already seen it in English. A cousin living in Munich told me that the German voice double for John Wayne was famous in his own right.

If CFK mandates dubbing of non-Argentine Spanish-language programmes, the time for pigeons in the Plaza de Mayo to stage a coo will have come.
90 britanico (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 06:07 pm Report abuse
84 Sí, porque you were hablando in Spanglish, a language I confused with English. Pero you are now spelling it as Español, with a tilde. As I am only a beginner, so do I need to spell it con o sin a tilde? Ahora estoy confused. Por favor explain, profesor.

I will ask Mercosur to change ‘Comments must be in English. Thank you’ to ‘Comments must be in Spanglish. Gracias’.

As I stated earlier: I’m from the southeast of England, now living in the southwest of England. That means I am living in England, which, for now, is part of the United Kingdom. That shouldn’t have been too hard to decipher, particularly for people whose native tongue is one they call ‘Español’, who think that all ‘británicos’ are ‘ingleses’ .
91 raul2 (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 06:22 pm Report abuse
87 simon68

You are absolutely wrong on this, Raul, about 77% of Argentines support the “Malvinas myth” and 33% do not and I am proudly part of the sensible 33%

I think you are absolutely wrong. Malvinas is not a myth, it is the true reality of racism and colonialism and British imperialism in the 21st century. The 99% of Argentines support the cause Argentina and Latin America.

But you did not answer my question: Why supports racism, colonialism and imperialism of the 21st century English?

88 GFace
Pathetic and pitiful
Argentina suffered four British invasions (1806-1807-1833-1845). It is the context of racism, colonialism and imperialism English 19th century with its aftermath of genocide and death.
Remember that the specificity of the Malvinas Question is that the United Kingdom occupied the islands by force in 1833, expelled the original population and did not allow their return, thus violating the territorial integrity of Argentina.
Also in 500 years of history United Kingdom committed genocide on five continents, three times more than Nazi Germany Adolf Hitler.
Quite an achievement for an Englishman proud to break that record!

I think Videla, Galtieri Margaret Thatcher would be happy with you!

Today continue with humanitarian bombing civilians in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria and pretend Doing in Africa! Spying everyone ....

Become an examination of conscience.
Really your hands are full of blood!
92 agent999 (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 06:40 pm Report abuse
raul2

How many times do you need to be told that in settlers in 1833 were not expelled. (there was no original/indigenous population).
93 ChrisR (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 06:47 pm Report abuse
@90 britanico

Thank you for informing us where you come from.

Regrettably our posts crossed, something outside my control, hence your confusion.

You can do what you like with MercoPress but I doubt very much it will get you anywhere.

Most, but evidently not all, of the British posters know where I come from and why I am in Uruguay so all you are doing is making yourself look ridiculous, but I imagine you are used to that.

And I doubt very much that you are sorry at all but rather you are a sorry individual perpetuating this nonsense of not understanding my original post.

We get an odd individual like you on here but they don’t usually last long and manage to upset both the Brits and the argies.

You however are to be congratulated for bringing an argie over to defend me: a unique achievement. Well done.
94 MagnusMaster (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 07:05 pm Report abuse
@87 where did you get those numbers? That's a lot of traitors. I was expecting far, far less.
95 ChrisR (#) Jul 19th, 2013 - 09:18 pm Report abuse
94 MagnusMaster

I am surprised, young man, that you cannot work that out for yourself: it's that obvious!
96 Pugol-H (#) Jul 20th, 2013 - 11:12 am Report abuse
@91 raul2
Not in the real world mate, not even close.

As for “Really your hands are full of blood”, coming from the people who brought you the Paraguayan war, the conquest of the desert and the flying nuns (not a pop group), that is really a laugh.

You need to except the truth about the history of the S Atlantic region, and recognise the reality of the situation today, if you ever want to move forward.

If not, it’s of no consequence to us, we are the main S Atlantic nation, we are there to stay, nothing you can or will ever be able to do about it.

Go figure!
97 Stevie (#) Jul 20th, 2013 - 01:13 pm Report abuse
Britanico
Spanish in Spain is not called Castellano, Castellano is te dialect spoken in Castilla (Madrid area). Then you have Andaluz, Mallorquí, Valenciano and a bunch of other dialects. You even have entire different languages, as Catalá, Galego and Vasco.

The language tought in school is also called Castellano, and as you obviously learned it there, that would most probably be the reason for your misunderstanding.
98 Swede (#) Jul 20th, 2013 - 01:36 pm Report abuse
Why on earth is this question regulated by law?? In Sweden we always use subtitles (dubbing is only used for animated films and films for chlidren). But no law regulates the use of dubbing or subtitles. Is subtitling if films illegal in Argentina? And why?
99 Mr Ed (#) Jul 20th, 2013 - 03:21 pm Report abuse
@87 Simon68 Presumably if the opinion split is 77%/33% of the population, you are counting some of the dead in your opinion sample. the 10% 'extra' leaning Peronist presumaly, like the Democrats in Chicago, allegedly.
100 GFace (#) Jul 20th, 2013 - 03:31 pm Report abuse
Raul, Given that your continued (and apparently when things went bad, conditional) support of the your Dirty War was the reward you gave Galtieri for giving you a free island people to oppress in 1982, he's either proud of you from the grave or just thinks your just another sucker like the rest of the Malvanistas. And CFK shares that sentiment I suspect!

And really. Britain has changed radically since the 19th century. She shed her colonies for a voluntary commonwealth. By your post, Argentina still holds to a masochistic nostalgia for the 19th century cold wars of Europe (including strangely enough the Napoleonic era where you were a satellite of a satellite state of ... uh.. France), not to mention a time could kill all the natives you pleased.

Association with the UK with an open future is the one shot the islands have for independence and prosperity, as opposed to coercive colonialism followed by forced annexation into a province that didn't even exist in 82, under you. In the Falklands, they can call the queen anything but a white woman. In would-be colonized/annexed “Malvinas”, it's a crime to get the inflation statistics right. In the Falklands they can invest in US, Canadian, Australian or Disney Dollars to their hearts content. In your vision of Sudetenland 2.0? Not so much. In the Falklands they can watch Dr. Who or Jeremy Paxman in the original language. With this cynical rent-making and suspiciously rain-making law on dubbing they will eventually have to watch it in reduced quality for their native english speaking ears -- that is if they are not ethnically cleansed.

You do the math on who offers the better deal. It's still not illegal to do THAT inconvenient calculation -- but given your current government's boundless insecurities, I'd get your number crunching in now while you can, if I were you.
101 Pete Bog (#) Jul 20th, 2013 - 10:17 pm Report abuse
@91
“Why supports racism, colonialism and imperialism of the 21st century English?”

Argentina is racist, colonialist and Imperialist.

Hope that helps.
102 onredelijk (#) Jul 21st, 2013 - 12:58 pm Report abuse
97
Valenciano and Mallorqui are in fact Catalan.
103 Stevie (#) Jul 21st, 2013 - 03:54 pm Report abuse
102
You are right indeed, although there are dialects of Spanish in both places.
104 The Truth PaTroll (#) Jul 21st, 2013 - 05:24 pm Report abuse
Learn other languages and you don't need dubbing, people are just lazy.

And no it does not take 5 years to learn a language, much less only to learn to undestand it, that can be done in three to six months depending on how close it is to your parent language(s). Speaking with correct idioms and vocab, writing and spelling, and becoming fluent in all things including advanced topics is what takes a few years in any language. But just listening to a movie you can do that in any language in months.
105 Captain Poppy (#) Jul 21st, 2013 - 10:02 pm Report abuse
Tobi....trade deficits and debt? We are all patiently waiting. Perhaps you confused loss of capital with debt?
106 The Truth PaTroll (#) Jul 22nd, 2013 - 01:46 pm Report abuse
I thought you always kept on topic, that's why you objurgated me about it.

Hypocrisy? Surely not.
107 Ayayay (#) Jul 23rd, 2013 - 03:36 am Report abuse
Now all they have to do is suspect (but not find) lead in “foreign” books and newspapers again and this will be
funnier.
108 Captain Poppy (#) Jul 23rd, 2013 - 02:27 pm Report abuse
#106 Just trying to get you to return to you tomato post you fled from. Too dumb or too scared to answer? If you refuse to answer in the article you ran away from, I will ask you in another article why you did not answer a simple question.
109 GFace (#) Jul 23rd, 2013 - 03:32 pm Report abuse
WRT the OP what ARE you doing about this, Tobias? Studying languages seems to be the most constructive hobby horses you have and you apparently are good at it (arguing is another thing, but we're talking about your self-declared forté). Here we have the government doing something stupid and honestly shady as all-get-out. Sliding in over time ~mandatory~ dubbing of foreign material by government approved translators with the proceeds of fines going to people who play a part in the adjudication. Are you writing to your legislators, any government oversight NGOs? Educational outlets? Art Film Society? Really, I'm drop-dead serious about it. What will Tobias do? What are any of the affected groups doing here?
110 raul2 (#) Jul 23rd, 2013 - 04:27 pm Report abuse
96 Pugol-H
If not, is not important for us, that we are the leading S Atlantic nation, we are there to stay, there is nothing that can or ever can do about it.

Do not be so sure. Things change over time.
Remember that the UK is a colonialist and imperialist country of the 21st century and is in decline.
The main weapon of Argentina is precisely not to have weapons. World public opinion is not fooled by racism, colonialism and imperialism of the 21st century English. Along with Latin America, Argentina, to recover the Falkland Islands without firing a shot. For peace and nonviolence.
It is only a matter of time.

100 GFace
Still supporting racism, colonialism and imperialism.
Still with bloodstained hands.

101 Pete
Argentina is racist, colonialist and imperialist.

These absolutely wrong. In 500 years of history of racism, colonialism and imperialism of the 21st century English is something real and tangible.

United Nations considers the UK as colonialist country.
The committee considers UN decolonization to the Falkland Islands as a colony. Of the 16 cases of colonialism in the world, 10 correspond to the UK they are: Anguilla, Bermuda, Gibraltar, falklands Malvinas Islands, Cayman Islands, Turks and Caicos Islands, Montserrat Island, Pitcairn Island and St. Helena Island.
Just look at any website decolonization committee concerning the United Nations refers to are a colony.
Besides UN resolutions refer to are a colony.
See 2065 (XX) of 1965, ratified by later resolutions 1973 (3160, XXVIII) 1976 (31/49), 1982 (37/9), 1983 (38/12), 1984 (39/6), 1985 ( 40/21), 1986 (41/40), 1987 (42/19) and 1988 (43/25). All declare the existence of a sovereignty dispute. No self-determination. It is a territory to colonize.

Just look at any website decolonization committee concerning the United Nations refers to are a colony.

es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comit% C3% A9_de_Descolonizaci% C3% B3n
111 GFace (#) Jul 23rd, 2013 - 04:55 pm Report abuse
Lets see, Raul, you committed genuine and cultural genocide the native peoples of the land that would become todays Argentina (Racism and Imperialsm), or should I say “conquered” since that's not racist or imperialist when YOU do it. And you celebrate the people behind it to this very day. You invaded a peaceful island miles away that wanted nothing to do with you (Colonialism and some late 20th century Imperialism to boot) and you were so happy with the Fascist Junta of which you were on the cusp of ridding yourself and still claim to repudiate (but celebrate on your 2 peso coin the way Germany ~doesn't~ celebrate the invasion of Poland), that you gave the same Fascist Junta a temporary reprieve before they let you down by failing to hold that involuntary colony. A would be involuntary Argentine colony the UNSC explicitly told you to unconditionally vacate and return to the “administrative power” who since then has treated the islanders with more respect than you weak, unrepentant, and insecure fascists ever have or will.

Find something your good at Raul, because as a Malvanista propagandist and apologist for your Dirty War, Conquest of the Desert and every other rock you throw through the walls of YOUR glass house, this just isn't it.
112 Pugol-H (#) Jul 23rd, 2013 - 05:08 pm Report abuse
@110 raul2
You clearly don’t live in the same world as we do!!!

Things do change over time, Argentina’s economic boom changes into a crash, again and again and again.

Whatever a countries position on negotiations for a settlement, in this world far more countries support the Islanders right to self-determination, than Argentina’s colonial ambitions in the S Atlantic, fact.

No liberal democracy will support Argentina’s position that the Islanders have no rights in this, fact.

Let’s face it, Argentina has few if any friends in the world, fact.

If you read the UN web site you will find they are referred to as “non self -governing territories”, you will also see that it repeatedly states that all the “non self -governing territories”, including the Falklands, have the right to self-determination, as repeatedly confirmed by Ban Ki-Moon, fact.

You should also know that all the British NSG territories have written to the UN asking to be de-listed from the C24 committee, the British Gov has said “the committee has no role to play anymore, in a world with no more colonies”.

That committee will soon be a thing of the past.
113 DanyBerger (#) Jul 24th, 2013 - 12:38 pm Report abuse
@Pugol-H

I don’t see Argentina crashing as you said but I see UK slowly crashing...

Seems Osborne had setup a new bomb in housing market lets say subprime style episode 2 but with English accent.

He is encouraging the property market to fuel up buy the reduction in cash deposits required before to just 5% of the total lending to boost recovery.

Do you know “Recovery” this thing that since long time ago had disappeared from Britain and none can find again.

Then “Corralito” I guess...
114 A_V0ice (#) Jul 24th, 2013 - 08:53 pm Report abuse
While Argentinians have historically been very supportive of the sitting government, the fact that people are protesting in numbers not heard of since the 2001 economic collapse is revealing.

The economic ship of Argentina has been floundering for some time now and it will be interesting to watch how Kirchner reacts to this latest backlash.

With Argentina on the bank of the bankruptcy river and membership in the IMF (International Monetary Fund) at risk, potential saviors in the form of international investors do not believe the financial data coming out of Buenos Aires.

With growing debt, runaway inflation and an economy which is on life support, there is nothing going on in Argentina to attract international investors.

The U.S. government is unwilling to offer any financial assistance and while allies such as Brazil and Mexico would prefer to see an economically stronger Argentina, the financial hole is too deep and getting deeper daily.

Argentinian public service employees have consistently been getting paid late and this is another bad omen for the country. If public services are allowed to come to a halt, the country would go into an economic free fall.

Many in the opposition feel it's time that Kirchner stop stepping around the economic failures by picking fights with other governments, concentrate on its own problems and start giving CPR to the national economy. However, Kirchner is too busy laundering money and sending dollars to Switzerland by way of Venezuela and the Caymans and furnishing her Paris home where she will most likely spend her asylum.
115 Pugol-H (#) Jul 25th, 2013 - 01:28 pm Report abuse
@ 113 DanyBerger

@ 5% deposit you get 5-6% interest rate on the mortgage (remember Bank of England base rate is 0.5%).

@10% deposit you can get a mortgage interest rate of 3.5-4%

With 25% deposit you get 2-2.5% interest rate. Take your pick

With unemployment falling and the economy growing “recovery” is what is happening in Britain right now. In less than five years this will all be forgotten.

Argentina is crashing by any measure you care to look at, and will still be crying in ten years time.

This much is clearly obvious even to one as biased as yourself.
116 Captain Poppy (#) Jul 25th, 2013 - 04:42 pm Report abuse
Why bother, they will ignore it right until the end. I am not so sure it will be as bad, but it will be severe. The worst thing is they are ignoring the actual trend. The RG government thinks that ignoring it and it will correct itself or go away, like the trolls, trashing the USA, UK and EU......they will go away.
117 DanyBerger (#) Jul 25th, 2013 - 07:16 pm Report abuse
@Pugol-H

You are so optimistic like the ones that predicted that the recession and financial mess in Britain would be forgotten to the end of 2008?

What do you drink to be so optimist?

The UK economy is jut keeping alive by pumping money into it.
Industries and retail business don’t show any sign of recovery.

What’s wrong so?

Ah! I can see you forgot to tell them that you are in “recovering process”...

Come on and don’t waste your time here and tell them the good news before is too late.

Ha ha

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