Tuesday, March 18th 2014 - 06:59 UTC

Malvinas/Crimea: Cristina Fernandez blasts UK on “double standard”

Argentine President Cristina Fernández has criticized what she dubbed a “double standard” from the United Kingdom, due to the nation condemning the Crimean referendum on union with Russia while supporting the rights of Falklands/Malvinas residents to hold a vote on their future.

The Argentine president made the comments in Italy

 “If those who are carrying out the plebiscite in Crimea are in the wrong, the 'Kelpers' on the other hand are fine,” the head of state fired ironically, speaking out on recent tensions between Russia and the European Union over the region.

“In Crimea the right to self determination is not valid and in the Malvinas Islands it is, what's the standard?”

In Cristina Fernandez eyes, Britain's stance over the disputed Ukrainian region “does not stand up to the slightest analysis.”

“Right now the conflict with Argentina is based on a double standard. Now all of the great powers vote in favor of self-determination for a population. They cannot put themselves forward as keepers of the world,” CFK asserted.

The president spoke out following Monday's meeting with Pope Francis, with whom she shared a lunch in the Vatican City.

168 comments Feed

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1 Gordo1 (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 07:05 am Report abuse
Chalk and cheese!
2 LEPRecon (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 07:36 am Report abuse
And the woman continues to embarrass Argentina on the international stage.

Let's see.

The Crimean referendum was hastily arranged in 10 days by a FOREIGN power, which had invaded the place, with NO consultation of the government of the Ukraine and NO independent observers.

The Falklands referendum was arranged by the Falkland Islands Government, took nearly a year to arrange, and had plenty of independent observers to ensure fair play.

Yes, they're just like each other...NOT!

The woman is a imbecile and an embarrassment to Argentina.
3 HansNiesund (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 07:58 am Report abuse
It's no surprise that an Argentina leader has difficulty understanding the problem isn't the referendum, the problem is the invasion.

Sounds like she got nowhere with the Pope on the Malvinas question either. Now there's another no surprise.
4 Be serious (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 08:10 am Report abuse
So if the UK supports Crimean self determination, Argyland will support Falkland Islanders self determination. Is that what she's saying? Otherwise you would have to conclude that she is merely causing trouble in a situation that could yet lead directly to WW3. Maybe that what she wants so her glorious army could once again march into Stanley before they succumb to radiation sickness.
5 JollyGoodFun (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 08:18 am Report abuse
Elephants and planets!
6 toooldtodieyoung (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 08:41 am Report abuse
2 LEPRecon

“The Crimean referendum was hastily arranged in 10 days”

Yeah, and it sounds like Russia had “loaded the dice” in their favour as well:-

Voters were asked to choose between joining Russia or having greater autonomy within Ukraine. There was no option for those who wanted the constitutional arrangements to remain unchanged.

So a great job all round.

And KFC isn't going to condem these actions? Jeez this woman is a prize turkey. Even the picture at the top of this story!! you can see that t-wat timerman standing behind her, grinning like a prize idiot!!

With people like this in charge, no wonder argentina is the laughing stock of the world.
7 FI_Frost (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 08:41 am Report abuse
Any excuse to whine more whataboutery nonsense....poor, poor you. Dee-dums: its just not fair is it Kristina.
8 Anglotino (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 08:58 am Report abuse
My God this is how stupid you have to be to rule Argentina.

Oh well, so nice to see Cristina approving of self-determination. I expect her to validate the Falkland Islanders referendum forthwith.

Unless she has DOUBLE STANDARDS.
9 Islander1 (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 09:14 am Report abuse
Dear Argentina, I have no doubt ALL Islanders would solidly support the people of Crimea in a referendum IF:

That Referendum had been democratically called for and planned by elected leaders and with the assistance of Independent International Observers who would have assisted in the wording of the ballot question so as to give full choice options, and overseen the election process to ensure free and fair presentation of choices and free and fair voting and counting system on the day.
Now ask yourself Lady- Did that happen in Crimea?
10 Room101 (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 09:19 am Report abuse
The Standard, dear President, is that things of this kind should be conducted through democratic procedures. You merely highlight that Principle through your propagandist speeches. Quite the opposite to what you hope to achieve.
11 Joe Bloggs (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 09:40 am Report abuse
9 Islander1
Good post.

CFK says:
“If those who are carrying out the plebiscite in Crimea are in the wrong, the 'Kelpers' on the other hand are fine,”

I say:
“Kelpers.” Nice to see that CFK recognises us as a people instead of calling us English Usurpers or pirates.
12 Don Alberto (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 10:18 am Report abuse
It is NOT nice of you to criticise a person with a serious mental defect for being unable to discern the huge differences between the two cases.
13 GeoffWard2 (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 10:25 am Report abuse
The Crimea isn't a different country (like Scotland, like the Falklands are to England), it is an integral part of a single country,
the sovereign nation known as The Ukraine.

It's like the French arranging for East Anglia (East of England) to hold a snap referendum to become part of France, making the French permanent naval base of Lowestoft , and East Anglia in general, an overseas Departemente of France.!
... Hollande having made the case of 'previous ownership' (1066 Normans, and the Huguenot settlement of East Anglia in the 1680s).

Whilst we invite French warriors to Twickenham on a temporary basis, to have them permanently take over some or all of my home country is (as the Russian jews would say) 'Beyond the Pale of Settlement'.

This is what is happening in The Ukraine.
14 jaydub (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 10:36 am Report abuse
One reflects the will of the people and stood up to international scrutiny. The other was done at the barrel of a gun and has no credibility whatsoever. Stupid cow.
15 Frankdrebin (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 11:32 am Report abuse
Democracy, obviously Argentina didn't get the memo.
16 Andy65 (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 11:49 am Report abuse
Argentina's Ambassador at The UN said

”MARÍA CRISTINA PERCEVAL ( Argentina) said she had voted in favour of the resolution because it asserted the principle of territorial integrity and would have contributed to constructive dialogue towards a peaceful solution involving all political actors. While urging refraining from actions that would hamper such a solution, she said it was indeed for Ukrainians to decide their own affairs. It was not for the Council to define the situation, but rather, to maintain international peace and security. Argentina hoped all countries would respect the principle of non-interference in State affairs.”

Yes Madame Ambassador just like it is The Falkland Islanders rights to decide their own affairs.
17 paulcedron (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 12:18 pm Report abuse
clearly crimea is an integral part of ukraine, like malvinas is part of argentina, or gibraltar is part of spain, or north ireland is part of the republic of ireland.

those plebiscites have not any value if you don't consider territorial integrity claims at the same time.

the positions of russia and the uk in this matter are exactly the same.
18 ChrisR (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 12:22 pm Report abuse
Only TMBOA could make that statement with a straight face, well the Botox makes sure her face doesn’t “move”.

What an edifying spectacle she makes to the real world, representing The Dark Country like some medieval “Queen” who has ultimate power over everyone. But that’s the problem isn’t it, she thinks she IS a Queen?

She will be gone soon and no doubt the Prince Royal Maximus Pratuss © ChrisR 2014 will take over.
19 Anglotino (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 12:27 pm Report abuse
Paulcedron isn't following the official government line.

Time to read the memo mate.
20 Don Alberto (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 12:33 pm Report abuse
Paulcedron also thinks that Norway is part of South Africa.
21 M_of_FI (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 12:36 pm Report abuse
“In Crimea the right to self-determination is not valid and in the Malvinas Islands it is, what's the standard?”

Precisely, what is the standard Argentina? Why don't the Falkland Islanders have the right to self-determination? In that statement, the Argentine President has indirectly highlighted her own nation's double standard on the Falkland Islands.

There are some significant differences between the Falklands and Crimea Referendums. Such as;

1. Abides the respective countries' Constitution
2. Attendance of Impartial International Observers
3. Agreed to be held by the Nation's Political System
4. Eligibility to vote
5. Choices in referendum weren't limited
6. Referendum held by a legal and internationally recognised Government
22 Monkeymagic (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 12:42 pm Report abuse
clearly Argentina is part Brazil....based on territorial integrity.
23 Orbit (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 01:15 pm Report abuse
Lol @22.

Or Greater Suriname ?
24 Vestige (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 01:32 pm Report abuse
And its not just Cristina.

UN, US, EU, China, Russia.

NONE of them gave the slightest legitimacy to the falklands sham referendum.
25 Conqueror (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 01:44 pm Report abuse
@17 Let's follow your “reasoning”. Vietnam is part of Cambodia. Cambodia/Vietnam is part of Thailand. North Korea is part of South Korea. Mexico is part of the United States. Mexico/United States is part of Canada. How nonsensical can YOU get?

The essence of “territorial integrity” is that an outside country shouldn't attempt to redraw frontiers for its own benefit. Argieland makes “claims” based on lies that the Falklands were somehow part of argieland's territory at some time. Discount anything that took place before 1816. Discount any actions by pirates. No valid argie “claims”. Gibraltar was legally ceded, by spain, in 1714. Northern Ireland was agreed as being British in 1921.

If crimea is an integral part of ukraine, russia has no business interfering. And it is interfering with military force. Much like argieland thought it could use military force to make the Falklands part of argieland.

Should have nuked argieland 32 years ago! It's not as though there are any humans or brains in the place.
26 Monty69 (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 01:49 pm Report abuse
The UN doesn't need to comment on the Falklands referendum, having made its views perfectly clear already. The Falkland Islanders have the same rights as anyone else under the UN charter, and are one of the 17 non-self governing territories that are still to be 'decolonised'. Having expressed our wishes in the referendum, it would be appropriate for the UK government to ask for us to be taken off the Decolonisation Committee's list, but that's for them (and us) to decide. It's no concern of yours.
The EU considers us to be part of 'Europe Overseas' and our referendum is therefore a matter for us and the UK. It is not required to comment on the legitimacy or otherwise of the referendum.
Argentina (and assorted other SA lapdogs) are the only countries that have taken upon themselves to formally interfere in the business of another sovereign nation and your opinion is not relevant.
Our sovereignty is a matter for us and the UK, and perhaps the UN. No other opinions are required.
27 Stevie (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 01:52 pm Report abuse
You fools...
You are trying to convince anybody that overtaking ministries and shooting at democratically elected representants of the Ukranian government and installing a puppet government full of Nazis, is democratic.

Then you point at the elections held in Crimea as anti-democratic...

Utter, utter fools, you are... But please continue the farce, there is no better help we in the other end could get, than you lot talking...
28 yankeeboy (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 02:05 pm Report abuse
But Stevie you support The Venezuelan Gov't shooting kids in the street.
Actually they say its Cubans....
Both gov'ts you admire and want the rest of the world to adapt to their “democratic” practices.

We think you are the fool
and brain damaged
29 GFace (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 02:14 pm Report abuse
Funny that... As I recall bunch of white christian europeans invaded the ALL of South and Central America held guns to the locals heads or just outright murdered them and otherwise implanted themselves against the consent of the the surviving locals. And since then have had no problem holding elections to stay white, christian and of a distinct european-derived culture. But the hypocrites dancing on a continental-scale mass grave have a lot of trouble with a couple thousand other white christian europeans whose predecesoers won the a particular match of the same 6-year-old futball game that every other european power (including the ones that won South and Central America) was playing at the time for a tiny island in the south atlantic BUT DIDN'T have any natives to exterminate.

Oh I get it, it's LatAm Double Standard Time. Same as every other day of the year. What a lie these Malvanazis live.
30 FI_Frost (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 02:14 pm Report abuse
@24 Vestige

“ NONE of them gave the slightest legitimacy to the Falklands sham referendum.”

Put it this way, in real terms, NO ONE, I say NO ONE gives the slightest legitimacy or interest to Argentine's claim to Falklands do they? The Falklands is done. Settled. Over. So get used it.

Oh and those that do (the z listers of the world), have to be promoted so as not to cause offence when you meet. Your millstone is irrelevant to all your neighbors and what friends you have.
31 Stevie (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 02:33 pm Report abuse
yanqui
A recent UNASUR delegation points at USA as the main destabilisation factor in Venezuela. By the looks of it a lot of Money is being canalized into the demonstrators pockets and some chavs are telling stories of them receiving weekly payments to riot.

It will not happen, old man. You'll loose like you are loosing in Ukraine.
32 malen (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 03:22 pm Report abuse
get your facts right Gface. over and over again with the same speech.
Arg had been a spanish colony. the originals havent been all killed and have been mixed so much but so much that became millions over a few colonizators. They fought for recovering the land through revolution.
Inmigration came a siglo later, because as always you were having some kind of trouble of wars and poverty, and they mixed too. but we already were argentina. get it.
southamerica for southamericans.
33 Chicureo (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 03:27 pm Report abuse
Gosh Stevie,
And all this time I thought it was because of intolerable crime, unbelievably lack of basic goods to buy in the supermarkets, brutal repression of peaceful demonstrations, heavy censorship of the free press, hyper inflation, lack of electrical power.... and so on... AND know we know that it's really that Obama is PAYING tens of thousands to protest as they want to bring down the people's revolution... Impressive...now go crawl back under your rock.
34 Brit Bob (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 03:32 pm Report abuse
Argentina recognises the Falkland Islanders right to self-determination because in 1945 she signed and ratified the UN Charter, regarded as a constitutional treaty. Section 73 Declaration on non-self-governing territories states that, 'the wishes of the inhabitants are paramount.' And some people believe the delusional comments made by Argentine politicians.
35 Troy Tempest (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 03:40 pm Report abuse
31 Stevie

”A recent UNASUR (pro-Maduro, pro-Bolivarian) delegation points at USA as the main destabilisation factor in Venezuela.“

” and some chavs (Communists supported by. Cuba) are telling stories of them (Venezuelan demonstrators) receiving weekly payments to riot.“

...and Russia points at the Ukrainians as the main ”destabilisation” factor in... the Ukraine.

See any common points there Stevie??

Ok, ok, I'll make it simple - UNASUR, CHAVS, RUSSIA, all have their own transparent self-interests that account for what they say and do.
36 atk357 (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 03:46 pm Report abuse
As much as I support the right to self determination in the Falklands and their successful referendum...I think Britain should have supported the Crimea Referendum....100% Russians....in a Region that belonged to Russia, per Putin “Right to self determination”. It seems a double standard from the UK.. I don't like CFK a bit! but she may have a point this time.
37 FI_Frost (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 03:47 pm Report abuse
@32 malen

You Sir, and all your like, are in denial. Lack of proper education and indoctrination abound in your stolen land.

Think removing the statue of Christopher Columbus fools anyone? Yes, likely it does for you dim people.

You took all the worst from Europe; colonialism, Falange, Fascism, Nazism, corruption and made it your own. Why? because that's your heritage dummy. Go read a book.
38 AzaUK (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 03:49 pm Report abuse
Lets say the peoples of Tierra del Fuego in southern Argentina rebelled against the current government. and the peoples of Tierra del Fuego favored joining with Chile then Chile realising this sending troops into the area claiming to be Anti Argentine demonstrators securing all major government building and founding there own government. this government then chooses to hold a referendum where a large percent of the population choose to join Chile and Chile of course accept the annexation of former Argentine lands.

Would Tierra del Fuego still be Argentine?

in spite it formally and internationally be recognized as Argentine intergril territory ?
39 Islander1 (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 04:01 pm Report abuse
36atk357- Incorrect. Given Crimea,s history I don't think any democratic nation would have had a problem with a referendum and its result- HAD that referendum been properly organised-options debated freely by the people- and well checked out and overseen by an independent body.

Malen- it was not the Spanish who waged wars of attrition against the Patagonian Indians- Argentines did - do go and read your history.
That happened in the Falklands - it most certainly did not in Crimea.
40 Tobers (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 04:02 pm Report abuse
@Malen

You like million sof Argentines are brainwashed into believing the myth of the creation of the republic of argentina was some moral exercise -to free all and make all equal-. It suits your rulers that way - the political class and oligarchs. What really happened is that descendents of the spanish conquest and smugglers were opportunists and thought -hang on! why are we sending all our riches to another corner of the world when we are the ones living here? So your generals endeavoured to create the republic so they could keep the riches for themselves and their cronies. They knew their former masters where overstretched trying to hold on to all their colonies so why not give it go? And theres alot of mestizo in Argentina but agaiin your are very naive to think that this happened mostly mutually between the spanish and the locals. Indigenous women would have been raped left right and centre by victorious soldiers or taken as trophies. Even though you see plenty of dark skinned people with obvious indigenous heritage iin Argentina you wont see a single one in a postion of high power. Legends and myths are created very easily over time . Gaucho Gil? You´ve been sold.
41 Islander1 (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 04:08 pm Report abuse
Sorry misprint at 39 - last line should be BEFORE my reference to Malen!
42 Stevie (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 04:26 pm Report abuse
Chicureo
Yes, lack of basic goods is something snotty, rich kids from rich neighbourhoods are deeply suffering from...
43 malen (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 04:33 pm Report abuse
Tobers argentine revolution was a reality.
56 % of argentines have indegenous ancestry.
44 Vestige (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 04:38 pm Report abuse
A strong military threat from the east, combined with local support from one demographic tranche managed to annex land, this combined force completely disregarded democracy in the first instance, and then went on to claim moral democracy over the now absorbed land.
Russia .... how could you !!! Ukraine did you no wrong.

A strong military threat from the east, combined with local support from one demographic tranche managed to annex land, this combined force completely disregarded democracy in the first instance, and then went on to claim moral democracy over the now absorbed land.
G.Britain .... how could you !!! Ireland did you no wrong.
45 FI_Frost (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 04:49 pm Report abuse
@43 malen

“56 % of argentines have indegenous ancestry.”

Who says so INDEC? LOL. Yeah right.

...Oh and why so few people of African descent? Can't say I saw many last time I visited, stands out compared to say Brazil; loads came over. What happen to them?? Arrh, you don't really like to talk about these things, I understand. Blame someone else.
46 GFace (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 04:50 pm Report abuse
@42 and onward... Malen. Keep living the lie. As with the rest of the western hemisphere from the Arctic to Tierra Del Fuego, Argentina is run and overseen by the implanted descendants of people who follow the European way of government, european ways of doing things, european christian, secularist or even humanist positions (but no native tribalist or animist religions). The native american card is played only for window dressing and when it is convenient for hypocrites like you. And the only people for whom you think this is a bad thing is a couple thousand people who got there about the same time as your dominant culture who have committed not the ultimate crime --- NOT of genocide and colonialism of indigenous people like your forbears committed, but the crime of repeatedly saying “NO!” to fascists like you.

We recognize that we cannot turn back the clock. What is done is done. Even many first nations peoples recognize this. But not you. Your inner fascist Malvanazi just can't handle one inch of the southern cone (or even an island well of the cone's coast) to be run by people not under your jackboot and prevailing culture. Even though their prevailing culture has been there as long as yours.
47 LEPRecon (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 04:53 pm Report abuse
@44 Vestige

You are now looking like a complete fool.

When the British invaded Ireland international law was completely different. As in land was only yours if you could defend it. When the people of Northern Ireland wanted to remain with the Union, it was allowed in a democratic consulted referendum. This was prior to what we now have as international law. So as we can see, the British were already supporting human rights and the right to self-determination way before anyone else was doing it.

However, since 1946, the UN Charter made it illegal for countries to usurp other people's territory (remember how Argentina broke international law in 1982 by invading the Falkland Islands?).

So no, they are not the same thing at all.

Russia is breaking international law today, against the UN Charter. It hasn't done itself any favours and is now cast as an aggressor.

It's a pity because both Putin and Russia scored a great political victory over the US over Syria, and now it has thrown all that away.

I'm not against Crimea having a referendum, but it should've been done legally. Pointing a gun against someone's head, refusing to have independent observers, and a complete lack of consultation period, makes this referendum illegal.

So now don't you look foolish, Vestige. But then what can we expect from a Malvinista, who would happily trample all over other people's human rights to get what they want.
48 Vestige (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 05:07 pm Report abuse
Ah ... so usurping by todays definition. But fine in law in the past.
The moral aspect can be disregarded..... in one case, not the other.
Russia !! - totally immoral !!
Britain - legal in a book and therefore moral. Isn't the Koran a book too.

Ad-homs cant save you.
49 GeoffWard2 (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 05:12 pm Report abuse
China did it with Tibet ... 'annexed' it, so it is now a region (oblast) of China;
now Russia has done it (again) with The Ukraine.

See #13 and #38

It's not surprising,
given the strategic importance of the Russian Black Sea Fleet' and its base in the Ukranian Crimea.
But The Cyprus Solution might have been adopted, giving the Russian base 'sovereign territory' status, recognising it in international law for what it really already is.
There was no need whatsoever to annex all of The Crimea.

We should hope that Russia chooses to not annex and re-name as Russia
the whole of the Ukraine ... and the other East European countries.
50 sussie@usa (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 05:22 pm Report abuse
_____' the laughing stock of the world is the USA'____________

The US criminal goverment did invade countries just KILL.

US COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF OBAMA TOLD THE WHOLE WORLD....
____Ooops....
is time to turn the NEXT PAGE, PLEEEEEEEASE _____

remember South Vietnam? = USA agreed THAT belongs to North Vietnam.

remember Iraq = LOST MISSION

remember Afghanistan? = VERY EXPENSIVE TO KEEP KILLING

AZ. Sen. John MacCain = 'bomb' bomb' 'bomb Iran'.....?????????????
A SELF INFLICTED HARM TO BLOW HIS ASS!
51 the_Truth_shall_B_Trolld (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 05:24 pm Report abuse
It is a gruesomely dirty and immoral double-standard. That is beyond dispute.

Of course, I don't side with CFK because she is also not acknowledging self-determination in the Faklands in reverse.

The Europeans and Americans have now fully morphed into anti-democratic, expansionist tyrants.

THE PEOPLE IN THE F“” STREETS OF CRIMEA ARE CELEBRATING AND FULL OF JOY, ALMOST NO SIGN OF INSURRECTION (and please don't tell me its because the Russians are holding people with a gun... since WHEN has that stopped people and populations that want nothing to do with another nation from rising up? answer: NEVER), and the anti-democracy EU and North Americans want to tell them, no, you are going back to the Ukraine to be assaulted by a far right regime that was taking rights away from ethnic Russians?

The dye is cast. And I would try the West's bluff: if ANY Russian official is detained, do the same to any western diplomat in Russia!! Ban all diplomats including embassies from leaving their embassies or threaten arrest, effective immediately. They will be stuck there just like Assange.

Go all the way Russia, its time the despotic people of the west get a good lesson and a good kick in the ass.
52 FI_Frost (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 05:25 pm Report abuse
The Crimean situation is infinitely more complex than that of the Falklands. The former involves many centuries of population movement, politics, wars and boundary changes. The latter is just about the mouthings of a bitter, envious, failed state clinging on to a myth of ‘territory integrity’ and a humiliated ‘national honor’ for ownership of islands thousands of mile off the coast of the United Provinces. Pitiful.
53 Stevie (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 05:28 pm Report abuse
Lep

“I'm not against Crimea having a referendum, but it should've been done legally. Pointing a gun against someone's head, refusing to have independent observers, and a complete lack of consultation period, makes this referendum illegal.”

But you have no issues claiming legality over a nazi mob overtaking ministries, shooting democratically elected representants of the Ukranian government in what turned out to be a proper coup d'etat, of course...

Ever heard of actions and reactions?

Even so, what you regard as legal or not, is not important, nobody asked you...

Crimea is Russian and now you lot deal with the Nazis your lot imposed on the Ukranian people.
54 ElaineB (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 05:28 pm Report abuse
Re Venezuela.

Maduro is being completely controlled by Cuba now. Stevie can argue all he likes against it but it is a fact. Maduro looks so worried because he has every reason to fear for his life. He is keeping the military onside by paying for their loyalty but paid loyalty is a fickle currency.
55 Stevie (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 05:37 pm Report abuse
Well Elaine, as Europe is being completely controlled by USA “F*ck the EU”, you'd think you have other things to worry about than Venezuela...
56 the_Truth_shall_B_Trolld (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 05:44 pm Report abuse
@55

They are pitiful people. They come here trying to convince us they have no problems at home to deal with.

I watch the news. Poor things.
57 Viva Las Falklands (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 05:54 pm Report abuse
In the words of Renee “ you stupid woman”
58 reality check (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 06:14 pm Report abuse
@56

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

Been watching this have you?

www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dw7RIgs3eygo
59 paulcedron (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 06:17 pm Report abuse
now the geniuses here say that argentina´s claim is invalid because malvinas are “thousands of miles” from its coasts.
as far as i know, the isla de los estados is just 300 km from malvinas.
and lthe distance to ondon is +/- 12.700 km.

neither logic nor geography or history support the ridiculous colonialism of britain.
60 reality check (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 06:19 pm Report abuse
www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D9EH1G4EwljM
61 atk357 (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 06:28 pm Report abuse
@39. Incorrect? I don't think so. May be a different point of view! I've been involved in International Business for decades...including Ukraine and Russia.... Putin may be seen as the bad guy in the movie...but he is not too far off the mark...if we dig deep into Russian history! . As for CFK's comments, well politics is politics....but still looks like double standards for the UK.
62 Stevie (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 06:34 pm Report abuse
Oh dear, oh dear...

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/05/ukraine-bugged-call-catherine-ashton-urmas-paet
63 the_Truth_shall_B_Trolld (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 06:42 pm Report abuse
@4o

Like the United States then on their independence huh?

Because they wanted to deny the Canadians the right to remain British by invading; they declared blacks 3/5 “human” and made no efforts to emancipate them; they denied all rights to women, they did not allow non-land owners their democratic rights, they immediately began taxing their own citizens, they massacred natives to expand the territories of the old Northwest and Ohio, etc, etc, etc, etc...

So Americans believing their independence was some sort of light on the world is also a bunch of myths, agreed?
64 LEPRecon (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 06:47 pm Report abuse
@48 Vestige

You cannot apply laws retrospectively. That should be evident to even the most intellectually challenged person.

If you could then every non-native person in the Americas would have to pack up shop and go, wouldn't they?

@53 Stevie

Well I must've been watching a different news channel to you, because in the Ukraine the people were protesting against the government - which is their right in a democracy - when the President ordered police to open fire upon them.

That was illegal, and he was removed by Parliament - not the 'mob' (nazi or otherwise) on the streets - in line with their Constitution.

But I know people like you label anyone who doesn't agree with your viewpoint as nazi - surprising considering how many nazi's ran and hid in South America. I also notice that people like you, Stevie, do not understand about democracy, do not understand that one person cannot be given absolute power, because power always corrupts, and you do not understand that the Constitution of many countries allows for the elected legislature to remove a President who is believed to be working against the best interests of the country OR to have issued illegal orders - such as the murder of unarmed civilians.

And now, the country that is acting just like the nazi's - namely Russia - you support wholeheartedly, despite the fact that they support the UK's position over the Falklands.

It must stick in your craw when you don't know which way to turn like this.

Poor Stevie, pray there is never a revolution in Uruguay - because people like you are always the 1st against the wall.
65 Chicureo (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 06:55 pm Report abuse
Stevie, besides luxury goods like toilet paper, ”Flour, cooking oil, butter, milk, diapers, beans, rice, sugar and other basic goods are difficult to find.
I lived through a similar period in the early 70's here in Chile.

www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2014/03/16/290516431/venezuela-in-turmoil-for-lack-of-flour-milk-and-diapers
66 Stevie (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 07:08 pm Report abuse
Oh dear, oh dear...

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/05/ukraine-bugged-call-catherine-ashton-urmas-paet

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...
67 Clyde15 (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 07:15 pm Report abuse
The Crimea, like it or not is a “fait accompli” The Russians have it and will keep it. No western power is going to go to war over it. However, if the west does nothing then it may embolden Putin to bite a bit more from Ukraine in the shape of it's eastern areas. If this goes then it is Moldova next. Sanctions are just a little warning and will escalate as time goes on. Remember, Putin started with Georgia in 2008. Bit by bit the old Soviet Empire is being reclaimed. Are the Baltic states being lined up for some future adventure. Latvia has a Russian speaking minority. What if they decide they want to join Russia and Russia intervened...WW3 would be the likely outcome.
Why is it the right of a part of Ukraine ...Crimea...to break away and join Russia BUT a part of Russia...Chechnya... to be almost destroyed when it wants it's independence.
Com on Stevie, give us your Marxist spin on this one.

It is also interesting to hear what the old Eastern block countries feel about Russia's actions. They have had experience of the benevolent Russian boot on their necks. Not surprisingly they are not pro-Russian on this matter.
68 Anbar (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 07:18 pm Report abuse
I'm a bit confused by this.

So Cristina is saying that the poll in Crimea was a fair representation of self-determination... but then has her UN official support the entirety of the rest of the UN that doesn't think that.

So, erm... “OK”.

---

Ont he other hand it baffles me absolutely how the hell the current Ukrainian “Government” can be regarded as legitimate... who the hell voted for it? Certainly not Ukrainians... RUssia has always had a bloody good point in this, which is that the West, the USA in particular, stirred up dissent quite deliberately and have enacted a coup by any other name.

The UN stomping its little feet and acting enraged at the usurpation of Crimea is just one more example of utterly, morally bankrupt the organisation is and how it is riddled with double standards and stupidity.

There is no Ukrainian government other than the one ousted by force by Ukrainians supported by Western powers.... when, IF, they hold fair elections THEN, and only then, will there be an actual Ukrainian Government to talk to about anything.

The Russians are spot-on on this matter and anybody in the West that is swallowing the media pack-of-shytee that there's some brave legitimate Ukrainian government trying to fend off the nasty Russian is a bloody idiot.
69 Stevie (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 07:25 pm Report abuse
Respect Anbar

Respect for not being a sheep.
Respect for autocriticism, even if you're not the one responsible.

Such actions open doors.

Of course Russia is wrong in handling Ukraine as their backyard.

Actions and reactions.

Either we support democracy and condemn all those responsible for what is happening in Ukraine today, or we mereky throw pies at eachother, as usual.
70 Monty69 (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 07:28 pm Report abuse
59 paulcedron
Geography: You can't claim our country just because you have a piece of yours 300km away. That's not how it works. This isn't a colonisation by Britain any more; it's about the future of Falkland Islanders, who will not consent to be Argentines. We don't care how close you are, or how far away Britain is. This isn't a competition where the closest wins. The only 'claim' is by Falkland Islanders to be left in peace.
Logic: We are not Argentines. The few people here from Argentina don't want to be Argentines either. There is no mechanism allowed in international law or by the UN to forcefully subjugate a population against their will and interests.
History: At least 50- 50 in our favour, in which case see above. OK you had a few people here for a few weeks 200 years ago. It's a long time ago. Get over it.
71 toooldtodieyoung (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 08:49 pm Report abuse
51 the_Truth_shall_B_Trolld

“The Europeans and Americans have now fully morphed into anti-democratic, expansionist tyrants.”

Ha!!! Again with the mis-informed, half educated, whiny assed opinion. Forgetting all the while that argentina is itching to become one of those “anti-democratic, expansionist tyrants”.

You keep posting on here Tobi!!! You go for it boy!!! I have enough jokes reading your posts, you provide much comedy on this forum!!
72 BOTINHO (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 08:54 pm Report abuse
Ola Monkeymagic-

“ clearly Argentina is part Brazil....based on territorial integrity.”

A rather poisoned chalice. Thank you, but no thank you.
73 Chicureo (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 09:21 pm Report abuse
Stevie, who is NOT from Uruguay, lives with his mother and dreams of one day having his own computer. Debating with him is about as productive as teaching cats how to swim.
74 Stevie (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 09:23 pm Report abuse
Damn Chicureo.... you surely got me there...

...

...

You been to Rwanda?

...
75 Monkeymagic (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 09:47 pm Report abuse
Territorial integrity.

If a region is currently recognised as part of a nation state member of the UN then it can be considered part of the territorial integrity of said member state.

It would be possible for any region to request to cede from a member state and even join another so long as the territorial integrity is not compromised.

In all common sense it is unlikely that any region could cede if it formed an enclave within a member state or if it had a massive impact on the overall territory of a member state.

So, the Falklands have never been part of Argentinas “territorial integrity” as it has never been recognised by the UN as part of Argentina, nor does it form an enclave within Argentina.

There is no sensible claim that Crimea could not cede from Ukraine based on territorial integrity, just as Scotland can cede from the UK...however, there is also no doubt that both Russia and the Ukraine recognised Crimea as part of the Ukraine and therefore it currently is part of the Ukraines territorial integrity.

This should not be about Crimeas right to cede, but the method by which it has.
76 Stevie (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 10:07 pm Report abuse
Telephone call between Estonias Foreign Minister and EU's Ashton

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEgJ0oo3OA8

Oh dear...

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...
77 mikey48 (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 10:26 pm Report abuse
This dear lady has her wires crossed.The falkland islanders referendum to remain british,thats under the united nations charter.Crimea has 3types of populalation,Russians/Unkranians and the third type,name escapes me.But only russians voted,no others.The crimean vote was and is illegal as laid down by united charter.Crimea belongs to ukraine,crimea is ukrainian soil/land.So putin like hitler is trying expansion.Must we do like in 1938 say ok we keep peace and do nowt.so its totally wrong.
78 Vestige (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 10:27 pm Report abuse
@64 - I never suggested that laws be applied retrospectively, deceptive suggestion, moral right works differently to written books. Again, your frustrated ad-homs do nothing to help.
79 Stevie (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 10:37 pm Report abuse
Mikey
Tartars.

The opposition boycotted the election, a democratical right.
80 lsolde (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 10:41 pm Report abuse
Don't care what silly Cristina says.
l now mostly ignore the hot air from malvinistas.
lts rarely worth replying to.
Falklands belong to the Falklanders.
Get over it, malvinistas.
81 ynsere (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 10:43 pm Report abuse
Even CFK must realise that the circumstances are quite the opposite!
82 Jack Bauer (#) Mar 18th, 2014 - 11:59 pm Report abuse
I could see it coming from a mile off...it was just a amatter of time...once again, the TMBOA has shown the world how pathetic she is....the two cases, Crimea & Falklands have absolutely nothing in common.
Why doesn't she engage her brain (presuming she has one) before she puts her mouth in gear ??
83 Anglotino (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 02:09 am Report abuse
So nice to see so many people now supporting the right of self-determination. Especially Stevie and Vestige.

Don't be hypocritical now, you know you now have to do the same for Gibraltar and Falkland Islands.

I for one support Crimea leaving Ukraine. I think it should have happened differently but the result would be the same. Ukraine can now move on without the burden of a US$1 billion annual subsidy and with a much reduced Russian minority.

Indeed according to my calculations, ethnic Russians may have now dropped to only 14% of Ukraine's population. This compares to 22% in 1989.

And without Crimea and Sevastapol, the next most Russian oblast is Luhansk with about 39% ethnic Russians.

And judging by the massive weekend rally with a turnout of 2,000 in Luhansk City requesting a referendum on joining Russia; Ukraine doesn't have to worry about getting smaller.
84 Zaphod102 (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 03:15 am Report abuse
@81 ynsere “Even CFK must realise that the circumstances are quite the opposite!”

She clearly didn't realise that the pope was criticising hypocrisy, not suggesting she should continue...
85 Stevie (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 05:33 am Report abuse
Of course we do, Anglotino.

Hence the Brits should go home, as we all determinated...

How many thousands where there demonstating in Kiev, by the way?
86 downunder (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 06:15 am Report abuse
“Double Standards”
Argentina voted with Britain on the Crimea referendum at the UN. So what is her problem?
One expects simplistic arguments based on twisted logic and sheer misrepresentation of the facts from the trolls on this site. But when the President of Argentina indulges in the same self-serving rhetoric and stinking thinking it really shows that they have a serious problem when it comes to diplomacy. And these people currently occupy a non-permanent seat on the UN Security Council. What and embarrassment for the world body.
In 1982 the argentines knew so little about the Falklands; they had to use British sourced maps to complete their illegal occupation of the Islands. Their knowledge of local conditions was that sparse that when the ‘heroic’ marines staged a triumphal flag raising in Port Stanley, the strong winds, which are a natural phenomenon in the Islands blew the flag pole over and the Argentine flag finished up lying in the mud. But she insists that these Islands really 'belonga Argentina' !

Falklands and Crimea, chalk and cheese.
87 Monkeymagic (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 06:58 am Report abuse
The “Brits” on the Falklands are “home” Stevie. The islands have been their and their ancestors home for centuries.

In fact, it is just as much their home as Uruguay is yours, or Argentina is Vestiges...except their ancestors didn't commit genocide to obtain it.

So, there can be no doubt as to the question of where home is.

Of course, we would all love to see the British military come “home”. But sadly, as you, Vestige, CFK, Dany Berger and others prove....there is still a real threat to the Falkland islanders “homes”.

A threat which cost 255 British lives in 1982....and which is celebrated with medals and ceremonies in Argtardtina on a regular basis.

So, those Brits will come home when we (not you) deem it safe for them to do so.

Their presence is for your benefit Stevie. Whilst they are there Argtardtina won't attack. They are too terrified.

If they were removed, and Argentina did attack, Britain wouldn't be as generous in 1982, maybe you'd get caught in the crossfire.
88 Gordo1 (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 07:01 am Report abuse
Where does paulcedron get his facts, sorry fictions, from?
89 Anglotino (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 07:32 am Report abuse
Sorry Stevie bit you have to support the Falkland Islanders rights to be British. By your own words to do otherwise would be hypocritical and denying self-determination is what fascists do.

Are you a fascist?

You don't get to decide for the Falklands. Unless you think ALL Ukrainians should have a say in Crimea.

Some demonstrations in Kiev reached 800,000.

How many people have demonstrated for Russia outside of Crimea? I can't find more than 20,000 at any one rally. I know 50,000 Russians demonstrated AGAINST Russia in Moscow recently.

I know it upsets you no end that reality in Ukraine isn't matching your claims.
90 La Patria (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 10:30 am Report abuse
The only thing Crimea and Falklands have in common is that Britain were victorious in both wars.
91 Briton (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 11:48 am Report abuse
Cristina Fernandez blasts UK ,

Well, it had to happen, another mistake by the masterful European twits inviting this deluded goddess over for a chat,

we reap what we sow, or they do,
they are turning CFK into a roving empress, or a deluded twit,

why oh why do they take the road to stupidity,
now CFK will enter European politics and be the expert on the Ukraine and Europe and the Falkland's, why do they pamper this deluded woman,
still,
as comedy shows go, it could turn out to be quite hilarious...lol

just a laughing thought..
92 Troy Tempest (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 01:00 pm Report abuse
88 Gordo1

Gordo,
Paul has already tacitly agreed that he is a teenager living at home, “but that's better than being old!!”

Enough said .
93 Briton (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 02:02 pm Report abuse
Her glasses gives the impression of a mafia godmother,
she seems to suggest that Britain is wrong, forgetting to mention that its most of the civilised world,

Russia wants only peace, he just said so,
-so he walks into the Crimea,
Argentina too only wants peace, they did walk into the Falkland's, or flew and went by ship,
so Putin and CFK have much in common,
both wants peace, and both took what was not theirs to take,

the main difference, is the Ukraine is a different kettle of fish,
and these ethnics of the east are a very confusing complex people,
but the Falkland's are British and the argies just want to steal them..

still,
as long as CFK looking like the godmother with the pope behind her, she can do miracles, can she not..lol
94 paulcedron (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 03:36 pm Report abuse
92
troy tem-pestilent.
lol
better than being a sad, lonely, bitter, hopeless old fart like you and your beloved friend.
95 Rick from Maryland (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 04:11 pm Report abuse
Wait! Is “Kelpers” a pejoritive?

She just call them that?!
96 Stevie (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 04:33 pm Report abuse
Anglolatino
If so many people demonstrated in Kiev, why did the coup makers feel the need to hire snipers to kill people and create an international opinion?
97 Islander1 (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 05:12 pm Report abuse
Maybe I am ming something- butrimea as part of Russia.
Look at a post WW2 map and it shows Ukraine and Crimnea as on “state” under Russian oviet control.
Then the old Soviet Empire on collapse allowed Ukraine to seperate itself off - along with Crimea as a part of.
Now ussia has taken it back by force.

To me it is simple- The Russians B**** up in the first place by making it part of Soviet controlled Ukraine.
What they should do - is hand it back to Ukraine and at the same time bring in the UN or other independent body to fully supervised a free referendum properly worded and carried out with no intimidation.

Then we can have a fair and just decision of their future.which both Kiev and Moscow will have to accept.
98 Stevie (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 05:17 pm Report abuse
Read history, Islander.

Crimea was part of Russia up until 1954, where the Soviet leader (can't remember his name, but he was Ukranian) gave Crimea to Ukraine as a gift.
Nobody protested as nobody thought that the Union would cease to exist back then.
1992 I think it was, after the disintegration of the Union, a treaty was signed between Russia and Ukraine where Crimea got more control of its own policy making and the Russians were allowed to have up until a limited amount of troops in the place.
99 Gordo1 (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 06:00 pm Report abuse
@92 Troy Temptest

Who's old?
100 BOTINHO (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 06:57 pm Report abuse
Ola Stevie-

That was Nikita Khrushchev
.
You are quite correct that o one could have foreseen the break-up of the former Soviet Union at that time, which would have included the Ukraine.
101 HansNiesund (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 07:48 pm Report abuse
@96

This is a conspiracy theory with no more evidence behind it than an overheard conversation reporting an overheard conversation. That's enough, though, for those who have no more thought in their head than confirming their own bigotry.
102 Stevie (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 07:54 pm Report abuse
Then why, oh why, dear Hans, did the coup makers decide not to investigate further?

The fact you play stupid doesn't make you one....
103 HansNiesund (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 08:33 pm Report abuse
@102

Evidence. Look it up if you don't know what it means.
104 Stevie (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 08:38 pm Report abuse
You mean they dropped the investigations of the murdering of 90 people the same day they got into power because of lack of evidence?

Do you believe that yourself?
105 HansNiesund (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 09:08 pm Report abuse
@104

It's because everybody knows it was really US Special Forces, the SAS, the Rothschilds, and the blood sucking lizards from outer space.

And Russia has no interest in putting about black propaganda of this nature, and even of it did, is far too nice to do it.
106 Stevie (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 09:48 pm Report abuse
Hans, lets try again...

Why do you think the coup makers dropped the investigations on the murdering of 90 civilians/police officers the same day they got into power, something that was described as “worrying” in the leaked conversation between the Estonian foreign minister and EU's Catherine Ashton?
A conversation that by the way has been confirmed by the minister...

Care to answer without pointing at extra-terrestials?
107 HansNiesund (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 10:11 pm Report abuse
@106

In the leaked conversation, Paet claims the new authorities don't want to investigate. Ashton counters that she thinks they do. Paet's claims, are purely hearsay, i.e he is reporting what he says someone else has told him. Hearsay does not constitute evidence in any sane legal system. Paet's claims, moreover, have been repudiated by his own government.

If you're the Ukrainian authorities, having part of your country annexed by Russia, as further unrest is fomented in the East in another rerun of the Sudetenland playbook, might mean you have other things on your mind than an entirely unfounded conspiracy theory put about mostly by Russia Today.

But believe what you like, Stevie, your belief system clearly isn't grounded in anything more substantive.
108 Stevie (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 10:17 pm Report abuse
Why is it they dropped investigated then, dear Hans?

We are, after all talking about the murdering of 90 civilians and police officers and it's not like Ukraine is preparing for war against Russia and surely they have enough law enforcement to deal with both cases. Or are you trying to convince me they are sending the regular police to the Crimean front?
109 HansNiesund (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 10:18 pm Report abuse
@108

Show me a credible reference that an investigation has been dropped.
110 Stevie (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 10:44 pm Report abuse
Just wait and see.

How long time do you reckon it takes to compare the bullets in the bodies of both the dead civilians and the dead police officers?

I'm not saying they should find the ones guilty, merely compare the bullets in the dead bodies.

How long time would you say that would take.

It happened a month ago and western media is not really stressing the news, are they?
111 HansNiesund (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 11:28 pm Report abuse
@110

So you have nothing more than Paet's reported conversation with Doctor Bogomolets? Are you aware of what Dr Bogomlets subsequently told the Western media, who are supposedly uninterested in the matter?

“Ms Bogomolets said she had not told Mr Paet that policemen and protesters had been killed in the same manner. ”Myself I saw only protesters. I do not know the type of wounds suffered by military people,“ she told The Telegraph. ”I have no access to those people.“

She said finding out who was responsible for the deaths could only be determined by ”fact“, and that she had been assured by the new Ukrainian government that an investigation was underway.”

www.channel4.com/news/ukraine-catherine-ashton-phone-shoot-maidan-bugged-leaked

Grow up, Stevie. You have nothing to support this contention except your own hatreds.
112 Troy Tempest (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 11:50 pm Report abuse
99 Gordo1

“Who's old?”

Well, Paul is calling me and several other posters “old” etc., as I had affirmed that he was a teenager still living at home with his parents - without a concept of real life.
113 Stevie (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 11:55 pm Report abuse
111
She was also offered a post in the government, which she refused, stating she could not Work in those conditions...

No investigations will be made. Wanna bet?

;)
114 HansNiesund (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 12:07 am Report abuse
@113

If she rejected a post in the government, then why would she now be speaking out in support of them?

So what we have now is

a) no evidence whatsoever that the same bullets were used to shoot both policemen and protesters, the only alleged witness having denies ever saying any such thing.
b) not that the use of the same bullets proves anything in a context where everybody and their dog has access to an AK-47 anyway
c) no evidence whatsoever of any cancelled investigation, and both Ashton and Bogomolets stating the exact opposite

Not, of course, that probability will ever outweigh prejudice in your mind.

One of these days, Stevie, if it hasn't happened already somebody is going to sell you a bridge. All they will have to do is put an anti-imperialist, anti Western label on it, and you will impoverish yourself.
115 Stevie (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 12:54 am Report abuse
No evidence.... Well, of course there is no evidence!
Western media it awkwardly silent on the matter, especially regarding the fact they were so interested in backing Nazis into power...
Those very same Nazis that dropped the inestigations to indeed find any evidence.

How long does it take to compare bullets from the bodies?

Didn't Ashton say she indeed was interested in investigating the matter in the phone call? Do you reckon this will happen?
116 Dr. Jeorbbels (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 03:11 am Report abuse
Did this woman get past year 7?
Her ignorance is astounding....there again perhaps not!
117 HansNiesund (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 07:46 am Report abuse
@115

You're right. There is no evidence whatsoever. There isn't even a case to answer, since the supposed accuser has now denied ever having made the accusation in the first place. Nor is there any trace of any investigation being dropped.

None of this, however, has prevented you from reaching a conclusion.

But this isn't surprising, we've seen time and again that you are incapable of processing information that contradicts your many prejudices.
118 Stevie (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 08:06 am Report abuse
The accuser denied according to YOUR media, the same one that hailed the installment of Nazis in the Ukranian government.

I haven't heard Olga say anythng else than the fact that people were killed.
119 HansNiesund (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 08:55 am Report abuse
I must have missed our media applauding the installment of Nazis in the Ukrainian government. Can you provide me a link?

The only thing you had to back up your conspiracy theory was an overheard conversation in which one participant reported statements by Olga, which Olga emphatically denies ever having made.

All you have left now is prejudice.
120 Stevie (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 09:51 am Report abuse
Svoboda, a Nazi party, or extreme right wing as they prefer to call it, has taken 4 out of 20 ministries in the “interim government”, a government backup by the EU and the US.

You really need a link? Do you even read news?

Olga denies nothing, Olga says people has been shot.
The only ones to claim Olga says otherwise is your source... Telegraph?
121 HansNiesund (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 10:03 am Report abuse
@119

Please provide any link that supports your original contention, namely that the Western media has been applauding the installment of Nazis in the Ukrainian government. If you've got a recording of David Cameron singing the Horst Wessel song on Newsnight, for example, I would accept that as evidence.

Please also provide any evidence that supports your contention not that that people were shot, which everybody knows, but that people were shot by the Ukrainian opposition in some kind of false flag operation. Bearing in mind, of course, that the supposed original source of that story, namely Olga, denies ever having suggested any such thing.

Or keep on exposing your irrationality, if you prefer, it's all the same to me.
122 Stevie (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 10:09 am Report abuse
They put them there themselves, Hans.

You provide me a link where Olga says what you claim she does.
And spare me your media, Anglolatino and I already sorted that bit...
123 HansNiesund (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 10:42 am Report abuse
@122

I already did provide you the link.

Now are you going to put up anything at all that supports any of your claims?
124 Stevie (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 10:47 am Report abuse
Did you?
I didn't see any video of Olga saying anything on that link....

I did put up the leaked video.
You really need me to put up proof of the Estonian minister confirming the telephone call? You want “my” media, or “yours”?
125 HansNiesund (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 10:53 am Report abuse
Are you telling me now you can't even grasp chronology?

The leaked video has been discredited by Olga, who explicitly denies saying what she is reported by Paet to have said. Paet has been repudiated by his own government. Not even Paet ever claimed that an investigation had been dropped. Both Ashton and Olga stated that there would be an investigation.

But it's no surprise that your belief survives in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. We see that quite a lot around here.
126 Stevie (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 10:55 am Report abuse
Then post a link where Olga discredits the claim

Not a Channel 4 claim. (By the way, isn't Channel 4 most knows for Big Brother and Gypsy weddings?)

Olga claims.

Not Channel 4 claim.

Spot the difference?
127 Troy Tempest (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 12:41 pm Report abuse
Since when has “Stevie ” held back on “evidence” if he had it??

Stevie is like A _Voice - he makes an UNSUBSTANTIATED statement and then when it is rebutted, he DEMANDS proof to back it up.

We all know how that worked out.
128 GeoffWard2 (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 01:03 pm Report abuse
I think I have found out what Stevie is getting wrong -
he doesn't know that people like to dress up - even the royals!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16141392
Can't really blame him for being 'foreign', can we?
129 A_Voice (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 02:35 pm Report abuse
“Stevie is like A _Voice - he makes an UNSUBSTANTIATED statement ”
I state historical facts to rebut...opinions...
If it's an opinion....I say....in my opinion....etc.
130 yankeeboy (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 02:42 pm Report abuse
129. No you don't . You can't even read a map for gosh sakes!
131 Stevie (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 02:53 pm Report abuse
Lets try Again

The leaked phone call between Catherine Ashton and Estonias foreign minister:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEgJ0oo3OA8

The confirmation of the autheticity on the phone call:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2573923/Estonian-Foreign-Ministry-confirms-authenticity-leaked-phone-call-discussing-Kiev-snipers-shot-protesters-possibly-hired-Ukraines-new-leaders.html

rt.com/news/estonia-confirm-leaked-tape-970/

(you'll get both sides, so you're not in doubt)

That's my proof.

Hans, present your proof of Olga denying anything.
And I mean proof, not British propaganda from a media outlet whose main expertice is Big Brother and Gypsy weddings...
132 yankeeboy (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 03:00 pm Report abuse
Stevie, Still support the Chavistas??

Intelligence agents arrested the mayor of San Cristobal, a city of 250,000 near the Colombian border, for aiding a “civil rebellion”

Venezuelan intelligence agents arrested the mayor of San Cristobal on Wednesday, while another opposition mayor was sentenced to 10 months in jail for dereliction of duties.

According to Reuters, both mayors stand accused of allowing protesters to barricade city streets, and in the case of the arrested mayor, supporting “irrational violence.”

At least 31 people have died in clashes between protesters demanding the resignation of President Nicolas Maduro and police trying to reestablish control over opposition strongholds.

time.com/31385/venezuela-san-cristobal-mayor-arrested/
133 Stevie (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 03:03 pm Report abuse
Indeed, seeing what your lot has done in Ukraine, hiring snipers to murder people and create and opinion in order to impose a Nazi regime, I think there no other way...
134 Troy Tempest (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 03:09 pm Report abuse
Grow up Stevie,

You say you are Uruguayan, but it sounds like any Anti- West cause will do.

Your rhetoric and choice of terminology gives you away.
You read too many Leftist websites.

I suppose that's cool, though.
135 A_Voice (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 03:10 pm Report abuse
130
I proved for an absolute fact using Google times and distances that it was you that can't comprehend a map.....
...but you do have an excuse....you're a Yank....
That has never been to Europe....Knightsbridge indeed....
Where?......you make stuff up....
Go on I dare you....try and pull a hotel off Google and claim you stay in Knightsbridge and are familiar with it....and I'll soon catch you out.....
Liar......
136 yankeeboy (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 03:14 pm Report abuse
Voice, You didn't ever prove anything to anyone. You just make a fool out of yourself, changing the starting points and any other input data after we point out your lies.
You are a liar and not even a good one.
137 Troy Tempest (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 03:18 pm Report abuse
Stevie,

“Nazi Regime” - do you seriously believe that? ( rhetorical question)

You seem to pride yourself jumping on the most current propaganda bandwagon.

Do you ever think for yourself ? Again, that's only a rhetorical question.
138 Stevie (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 03:27 pm Report abuse
Anti-West cause?
Hiring snipers to kill people in order to create an opinon and imposing a Nazi regime, like in Ukraine and most surely like in Venezuela, is a human cause to combat.

In Venezuela the ones protesting are the wealthy ones, the same ones that ownes the production sector. These poor rich ones are the ones to complain about shortages of daily products. At the same time the contraband to Colombia is rocketing. Everything from meat to gas is illegally being taken from Venezuela into Colombia.
The poor rich ones also control most part of the media (yes, the majority of Venezuelan media is privately owned, and not by the poor masses, for obvious reasons). This media blames the FARC for the contraband. That makes sense. The poor rich ones produce and somehow it ends up in the hands of the FARC, who then take the goods into Colombia in order to sell it there...

Luckily, in Venezuela, the grand majority of the population will not grant the poor rich ones access to power again. Mainly because...

Nunca más!
139 yankeeboy (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 03:30 pm Report abuse
138. You are brain damaged. Your parents ruined you. I seriously hope you don't have kids.
140 HansNiesund (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 06:28 pm Report abuse
@131

Sorry Stevie, I hate to disillusion you, but endless repetition of what has already been repudiated multiple times, does not constitute proof, it constitutes idiocy.
141 Stevie (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 08:09 pm Report abuse
So, you have no other source than the experts in Gypsy weddings and Big Brother then?
142 HansNiesund (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 08:17 pm Report abuse
@141

See @140.
143 Stevie (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 08:17 pm Report abuse
@142

See 141...
144 HansNiesund (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 09:06 pm Report abuse
Stevie, I know this is hard for you, but let me try to help you again.

It is you that is levelling the accusation, and therefore it is up to you to justify it. Your only justification so far is a telephone conversation between Paet and Ashton, in which Paet claims to have been told certain things by Olga.

However, Ashton contest the claims made by Paet, the Estonian government refutes the claim made by Paet, and Dr Olga reportedly denies ever having said any such thing. Paet, meanwhile, has gone quiet.

Now, if it is indeed true that the evil Western media has just made up Olga's denial (as opposed for example to the ever credible Russia Today), then why don't you find yourself a direct statement by Olga herself supporting the accusation, instead of the discredited one emanating from a third party?

You could try, for example, Olga's own web site, on which she has quite a lot to say about shootings, and where I imagine she would express herself is she thought she was being misrepresented by the evil express. I am sure you can find it for yourself very easily.

Otherwise, if you can't come up with anything new, I'd suggest we stop boring any other readers to death with repeated demonstrations of your intellectual deficiencies.
145 Stevie (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 10:10 pm Report abuse
The ONLY place where Olga denies the information is on the British Channel 4. How very conenient.

The ONLY thing that has gone quiet, is the investigation.

Paet never meant for it to go public, as Estonia is part of NATO.

Continue backing Nazis (yes, 20% of the “interim government” in Ukraine are Nazis. That's 20% too much) and continue backing the hiring of snipers to kill civilians.

Nobody expects anything less of you.
146 Troy Tempest (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 10:30 pm Report abuse
Stevie,

You are a numbskull.

Why would the “poor rich” very privileged few, protest ??

If they are “rich”, it is only because they are thriving under Maduro's corrupt system.
After a decade or so of Chavez, and now Maduro, the only ones left that are rich, must be the pals of the government. They wouldn't want change.

On the other hand, the middle class are now poor, and the poor are numerous, more numerous than ever before, and frustrated, and hungry...

You defy logic.

As to calling people “Nazi's” - that's a real “hot-button”
Term they've been dubbed with, to discredit legitimate protest.
How do you justify it?

Your version of the sniper conspiracy has already been found to be trumped up. In fact, there are more compelling indications that the pro-Russian faction and the ousted President were complicit in killing protestors, with protest leaders singled out in the crowd.

The pro-Russian, Stevie-Hero, side was very highly organised, funded, uniformed and deployed - everything was well-orchestrated.

Hardly sounds like a civilian “grassroots” militia that “sprung up” independently and of their own initiative.

Grow up. Do you even think?
147 Stevie (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 11:06 pm Report abuse
Here they are the ones you lot defend

www.euronews.com/2014/03/19/ukranian-tv-boss-assaulted-and-forced-to-resign-by-far-right-svoboda-mps/

The man with the ponytail is nobody else than Igor Mirosjnitjenko, vice chairman of the commitee of freedom of opinion.

You bunch of Nazi lovers...
148 HansNiesund (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 11:13 pm Report abuse
@147

Distraction, distraction, distraction, Godwin fail.
149 Stevie (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 11:16 pm Report abuse
Nazi lover.
150 Troy Tempest (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 11:32 pm Report abuse
Best you can do, Stevie, a childish taunt??

When logic and reasoning fail you I guess, fall back on what you know best... Supa Tupa wannabe. :-/
151 Stevie (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 11:47 pm Report abuse
Nah, the best I can do is to visually show you why you lot are a bunch of Nazi lovers...

;)
152 HansNiesund (#) Mar 21st, 2014 - 04:57 am Report abuse
@151

Perhaps you should try and do that, then, for all you've shown so far is an inability to assess the information in front of you.
153 yankeeboy (#) Mar 21st, 2014 - 11:34 am Report abuse
Stevie reminds me of a religious fanatic that stands on a street corner repeats craziness over and over hoping someone else will believe him.

BTW Stevie, You might want to come up with another term Nazis are National Socialists like you want every country to be.

Psst few more deaths in Venezuela and a severe drug shortage so where are those deaths counted? Sounds like a human rights issue to me. Maduro should be concerned but I bet he's not.
154 JollyGoodFun (#) Mar 21st, 2014 - 12:06 pm Report abuse
@151 - come on now Nazi loving is a bit harsh. Just because you people like some of the BBCs documentaries doesn't make us all Jimmy Saville loving pedos.

There will always be different ideologies in any movement.

The EU would not allow a Nazi movement to gain any strength. However it would be interesting to understand what you define as a Nazi movement, as it seems as though you're a nazi if you oppose Putin and communism.

Sounds like a propaganda assault..... Ww2 tried and tested mind bogglingness.

The next we'll here is that Ukrainians are slaves of the EU
155 Troy Tempest (#) Mar 21st, 2014 - 01:00 pm Report abuse
Stevie is not using his own assessment of the Ukranians - he is simply echoing the terminology and labels affixed by the Russians and Leftist propaganda news sites.

I heard a report on the radio, “from the region” that defined the Ukranians as “Nazis”.

Don't believe that Stevie thinks for himself, he just willfully, I should say “gleefully” repeats the dogma on the Anti-West websites.

Ever notice that “Stevie” does not stand for anything, he only takes the negative stance that's currently in fashion, against any Western cause, whether it be Syria, Libya, the Ukraine, etc.

Our pal “Pirat- Hunter”, did the same thing. A quick look at his FB site ( as ALEX VARGAS) showed all the anti-West, Pro-Gad-Daffy and fanatical terrorist online sources - very prominent was La Campora's.
156 HansNiesund (#) Mar 21st, 2014 - 02:02 pm Report abuse
@149 et al

Frankly, I enjoy the irony of being called a Nazi by an unwitting little fascist, for objecting to Putin's Anschluss of the Crimea via the Sudetenland playbook.
157 toooldtodieyoung (#) Mar 21st, 2014 - 08:53 pm Report abuse
155 Troy Tempest

“Don't believe that Stevie thinks for himself”

Really? You know, I knew there was something wrong with him but I couldn't quite put my finger on it.........

Poor robot Stevie, just another mouthpiece for La campora.
158 Troy Tempest (#) Mar 21st, 2014 - 10:36 pm Report abuse
156, 157 Hans, Too Old

Odd that Stevie's high- minded idealism doesn't contain any compassion for the “people”, his masters just use class warfare as a pretext to take what they want from others, rich or poor. “Rich” have more...
159 HansNiesund (#) Mar 21st, 2014 - 11:06 pm Report abuse
@158

Stevie inhabits that weird zone where the extreme left meets the extreme right, and it's exceedingly difficult to tell the difference between them.
160 Stevie (#) Mar 22nd, 2014 - 04:51 am Report abuse
... says he who backs Nazis in Ukraine...
161 toooldtodieyoung (#) Mar 22nd, 2014 - 06:58 am Report abuse
160 Stevie

Yes, yes, yes stevie, that's right. One thought at a time...............
162 Stevie (#) Mar 22nd, 2014 - 07:13 am Report abuse
Is that your doctor's order?
163 GeoffWard2 (#) Mar 22nd, 2014 - 09:30 am Report abuse
Putin has just given 'observers' permission to 'observe' in The Ukraine.

But they cannot 'observe' in The Crimea ... because that is part of Russia.

Nice of him, eh? I think I'll give the Welsh the right to 'observe' in North Korea - oh, sorry, I don't own North Korea.
164 Stevie (#) Mar 22nd, 2014 - 09:35 am Report abuse
Geoff, I think it's the veto right that is to blame.

Try lobbying against the countries with veto right...

;)
165 malen (#) Mar 22nd, 2014 - 05:52 pm Report abuse
Islander for you
www.perfil.com/internacional/Los-kelpers-defienden-su-plebiscito-pero-cuestionan-el-que-hizo-Crimea-20140322.html
An anti k newspaper, but more objetives than others. Also:
www.perfil.com/columnistas/La-otra-diplomacia-20140321-0072.html
166 GeoffWard2 (#) Mar 22nd, 2014 - 07:03 pm Report abuse
#164

'I will say this only once' (look it up) ...
The head of any foreign country has no right of veto over a different sovereign country.
I think you're getting a little mixed up because of the way the Bolivarian Mercosur countries 'vetoed' Paraguay. The good sense of Paraguay is now clear to everybody.
167 Jack Bauer (#) Mar 22nd, 2014 - 07:59 pm Report abuse
@166, You are 100% right.
And unfortunately, Brazil sided with VZ against Paraguay because Hugo Chavez and Lula were the best of pals.....and in total disrespect of the statutes of the Mercosur agreement....it's hightime Brazil disassociated itself from Maduro, but I can't see that happening as long as Dilma is Lula's sock puppet.
168 JohnN (#) Mar 24th, 2014 - 02:23 pm Report abuse
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- Main Phase Of Landmark Reindeer Eradication Project Over
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