Wednesday, March 19th 2014 - 07:21 UTC

With Malvinas in mind, Argentine diplomat calls for recreating links with UK

The recent visit to Chile and particularly Uruguay of Foreign Office minister for Latin-American Hugo Swire has triggered a barrage of comments and debate in Argentina about the Falklands/Malvinas, particularly aggressive towards the FCO official, but not surprising.

García Moritán finds praise, and a strong message, in the naming of Colin Roberts as Falklands next governor

 However in the midst of this smoke screen there have also been some interesting points of view, one of them as a contribution to Clarin by Argentine ambassador and former Deputy Foreign Affairs minister, Roberto García Moritán with a long diplomatic career.

In his column “It is time to recreate links with the UK” the Argentine ambassador suggests a more discreet policy, low key attitude, less aggressive, reestablishing traditional links, and emphasizing that a whole generation of Argentines and Brits only know of enmity and recriminations, when in actual fact there has been a long history of great affinities.

Such as “the 1968 Memorandum of Understanding which was only waiting to fix the date for the definitive transfer of Falklands/Malvinas sovereignty to Argentina”.

García Moritán begins by mentioning that the new Falkland Islands governor Colin Roberts has proven abilities in highly sensitive political affairs which gives an idea of the importance assigned by the UK to the Islands issue, but it is also a message to take into account.

To this effect he mentions that Mr. Roberts was head of the Central Europe and Central Asia desk and in 2012, head of Overseas Territories. This also reaffirms that despite greater autonomy in the Islands, the governor post is not only representative, but implies a strong presence in foreign affairs and strategy. García Moritán underlines that the recent visit of FCO Minister for Latin America Hugo Swire is further evidence.

“All this could be indicating that the UK is intent in beginning a renewed policy towards the Malvinas, more active to compensate the multilateral diplomatic action from Argentina”, a fact also to be taken into account.

This leads the Argentine diplomat to believe that confrontation for the sake of confrontation in the South Atlantic must find a more diplomatic path of action, and Buenos Aires should take advantage, and as it has been the case in Argentina diplomatic history, adopt a more persevering strategy directly with the UK.

“It is time for Argentina to change diplomatic tactic and try to recreate a link even when it is not formally a dialogue or a negotiation.

To that respect García Moritán mentions several scenarios that do not compromise political positions and could be more constructive. Likewise a silent diplomacy that avoids offences so that the substantive issues can be explored, and then suggests that the 1989 Madrid accord could be an example.

A few days away from a new anniversary, 32nd., of the Malvinas war, as the coming meeting of Pope Francis with Queen Elizabeth II, all indicate that closer links with the UK are more than needed, maybe even full reconciliation, underlines the diplomat.

Finally, ”a whole generation of Argentines and Brits only know of enmity and recriminations when there has been a long history of great affinities as was evidence, among others, the 1968 Memorandum of Understanding which only needed to fix the date for the definitive transfer of the Malvinas Islands sovereignty to Argentina”.

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1 Monkeymagic (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 08:02 am Report abuse
if he wasnt so retarded he would be on the verge of a good idea.

It is not Britain with whom Argentina has to forge better relations...we couldnt give a shit about his cesspit third world fascist shitheap of a country. A generation of Britains are unaware of Argentina except for Messi, Aguerro and Tevez.

The relationship he nees to build is with the islanders. it will take a century or more but it is possible.

Start by signing oil and fisheries agreements and send your hottest women to do the negotiations.....in a few years there would be plenty of mixing of the two peoples!.

Sadly, though these new islanders would probably see that theyve left a cesspit and live in a developed country and vote never to join Argentina too!
2 CaptainSilver (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 08:04 am Report abuse
It won't make any difference to Falklands sovereignty but a strategy of friendship and trade cooperation would be more constructive and rewarding for Argentina. Argentinas development into pariah nation is not in its own interest.
3 zathras (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 08:44 am Report abuse
The 1968 Memorandum of Understanding, is DEAD. The illegal military invasion and occupation of the Falkland Islands in April 1982., against the wishes of it's people put stake through the heart of that vampire.

Roberto García Moritán coulddo would do well by engaging with the people of the the Falklands.
The UK government has made it clear that any talks would involve direct face to face contact with the Falkland Islanders.
Why is this so scary for Argentina.
Could it be because they might mention the war, and gently tell Argentina to stop bullying them.
41 Million Argentinians v 3000 Falkland Islanders (with the support of 1060 UK troops).
Hardly seems fair does it.
4 HansNiesund (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 08:53 am Report abuse
It's brave of him to say so, but fundamentally this is just yet another attempt to turn the clock back, this time to the pre-Kirchner or even the pre-Galtieri period, as if Argentine behaviour in the interim is without consequence.

What Argentina needs to do is move on and grow up, not keep harking back to the past, whether it be 1833, 1968, 1989 or whatever. But nothing of the sort is going to happen as long as the name of the game is histrionic posturing for the domestic audience.
5 nololly (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 09:15 am Report abuse
Nine UK MPs are in Patagonia at the moment seeking out Welsh speakers to mark the 150th anniversary of the arrival of Welsh people. They are members of the Welsh affairs committee and are there at the invitation of the Argentinian government. So, there is some engagement. Why RGs just cannot see that harrasing British people on cruises and blockading the Falkland Islands will never get them anywhere is hard to understand, its ludicrous.
6 Islander1 (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 09:25 am Report abuse
An Argentine with some brain! Maybe there is the possibility of light at the end of the tunnel for all. Of course those old memorandums are dead- I think he was just pointing them out as that was a better potential path to be looking at.
7 La Patria (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 10:21 am Report abuse
There are many good brains in Argentina but somehow it's the corrupt ones that always manage to get into power and continually force the country to shoot itself in the foot. Here's hoping for a change on many fronts, not only their approach to the islands.
8 Room101 (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 10:22 am Report abuse
What the diplomat suggests in this article is some way forward, but it can't be done under the present regime, which is entrenched against those democratic international procedures that recognises peoples rights to self-determination. The present Argentine government has therefore, permanently, lost the vital basis of trust; has little understanding of creative outward-looking diplomacy, and still justifies previous military actions that tried to secure territory that is in the rights of sovereignty and historical and cultural ownership by free-will of the population. How Argentina governs itself is its own affair, but it does not govern the will of other countries or dependencies, which through properly conducted procedures, wish govern themselves.
9 Martin Woodhead (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 10:33 am Report abuse
#3 is quite right that ship has sailed and been torpedoed its never surfacing again.
long with all the other dates malvinests like to drag up.
UK has held the falklands for over a hundred years until argentina becomes a functioning country your not getting the islands and even then you probably want forget them.
10 Viscount Falkland (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 10:41 am Report abuse
Roberto García Moritán.....the smooth talking snake from the Jungle Book film !
11 Gordo1 (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 11:44 am Report abuse
In 1982 Argentina spoiled any chance of a meaningful relationship with the UK and with the Falkland Islanders. The illegal invasion of the archipelago by Argentina and all excuses/reasons for it have put Argentina in a position where there are no possibilities for progress - certainly not under the present regime.
Until such time as Argentina recognises the rights of the inhabitants of the Falklands as citizens of their land then no meaningful progress is possible.
Argentina regularly produces lies, fairy tales and myths in its efforts to convince the world that it has the right to the sovereignty of the archipelago but will not submit its claim to the International Court of Justice which is the ONLY forum with the power to adjudicate in matters of sovereignty. The UN resolutions which Argentina alleges for the basis for its claim just do not exist and therefore MUST be ignored. ¡Que dejen de joder tanto!
12 RICO (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 11:58 am Report abuse
#11 to be fair we have a pretty great relationship with Germany and Japan now despite our history with them.

Germany (ignoring a few lunatics) has rejected Naziism and is firmly on the side of good human rights, peaceful relations and liberal democracy. Japan has reformed and has a predominantly pacifist and cooperative foreign policy.

All Argentina has to do is follow the example set
- renounce facism, political violence and oppression of their people and their neighbours.
- take more positive cooperative foreign policy stance
- recognise the human rights of minorities in the region including South Americans and the Falkland Islanders.

People will not forget the things they have done but as has been shown in Europe people can move on where it is recognised that it is in everyone's best interest and one country doesn't throw its weight around trying to suppress the rights of another.
13 Briton (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 12:03 pm Report abuse
WOAH BOY WOAH.

The 1968 Memorandum of Understanding which was only waiting to fix the date for the definitive transfer of Falklands/ sovereignty to Argentina”.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Well they fxcked that up,
But hang on a mo, don’t jump the gun, and think what they are say for a mo,

I think they are grasping at the wrong end of the stick here, and it could well back fire,
They seems to think that better relations / collaboration, friends, pals, mates, buddy buddies, will have sovereignty transferred by next year,

I think either they are reading to far into this rubbish, or the trustworthy loyal honest British government has a surprise in store for someone,
Now don’t get me wrong here, but one must explain to these Argies, now and the future governments that SOVERINGHNTY is a no, no full stop,
Now when they understand and accept this point,
Then you can be great friends as you wish to be,
But if they in any way,
Thinks all this talk of new friendship means return of sovereignty
Then the islanders need to put this little acorn to rest , now..
just a futuristic thought..

.
14 ChrisR (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 12:07 pm Report abuse
NOBODY CAN TRUST THESE BASTARDS!
15 Viscount Falkland (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 12:09 pm Report abuse
#6 Have you learnt nothing from history and Argentine conduct towards your islands and you are wanting to encourage more of the same ? ?
16 FI_Frost (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 01:07 pm Report abuse
It will take many generations and an end to state indoctrinated fairy tales told to children in school, but Argentina needs to make a full and formal apology to FI and the UK for the 1982 invasion.

Currently she is still in a state of schizophrenia about this shameful episode and all the needless deaths caused. One minute they want to celebrate it, the next feel ashamed of it, blame anyone but themselves for it and finally avenge it. Argentina is an exceedingly immature nation state and utterly unfit to have the slightest influence in what goes on in the Falkland Islands.
17 GFace (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 01:19 pm Report abuse
Nixon went to China. As good as Argentina are ever going to get are thawing civil relations with a neighbor that they will never control with their jackboot (or childish passive aggression) again. But any talk of discussions that involve the Falklands that don't directly involve the Falklanders as leaders in those discussion are empty lip service cynically designed to get a rejection from the Falklanders and out of respect for the Islanders, the UK will reject them as well.
18 Conqueror (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 01:31 pm Report abuse
Let's be quite clear. After the '82 war, argieland embarked on a period of “co-operation and friendship”. It meant nothing. It was a ploy. It was abandoned after about 10 years when the argies realised they were getting no closer to sovereignty. This is the first thing that everyone should be thinking of. The second thing is tinboy's statement that the Falkland Islands will belong to argieland inside 20 years. BEWARE THE ARGIES BRINGING “GIFTS”. To any Islanders reading this, I would recommend no change in the suspicion with which you view argies. Except that you should now be MORE suspicious. You might think that if it removes “that” provision from its constitution, it marks a change. Remember that it could be put back in a couple of hours. Recall that the first hard runway was installed by the argie air force. Wonder why? Remember that the argie meaning of the word “co-operation” is “stealing with the unwitting assistance of the owner”. Notice that Garcia Moritan only refers to a change in “tactic”. One changes tactics on the battlefield. When head-on confrontation has failed, one changes to flank attacks or subterfuge. Leopards and spots. Can anyone actually imagine argieland being co-operative, friendly, honest, responsible, genuine? Why wouldn't Garcia Moritan suggest a complete change in attitude toward every country that argieland has dealings with? It could pay off its debts. It could comply with international law. It could publicly renounce its “claims” to the Islands. It won't do any of those things because it only believes in trickery!
19 Briton (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 01:50 pm Report abuse
As some here have rightly said,
You cannot trust them, just because they get a new government or leader it does not mean they will change,

They have ignored all UN requests against them,
They have for years now continuously abused , threatened , intimidated , blockaded, and slagged them off, they refuse to talk to the islanders , they treat them like dirt, they ignore their wishes , rights , and freedom to choose,

They changed there constitution to make sure they never talk, but demand,
And remember that even if they turned into angels overnight, another leader can and will alter it back again, you cannot ever trust these people to agree and abide on anything but there own agender,

Talk to them by all means, do business with them, trade with them, but as Falkland islanders, not argentine property.

Now if they at first changed their constitution to remove the Falklands bit, swore never to invade or threaten or intimidate the islanders, and give up there stupid none existent claim,
And enshrines it in law, it would be a start,
Then again so would flying pigs, but one can hope..

.
20 the_Truth_shall_B_Trolld (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 01:54 pm Report abuse
That man is dreaming. He is an anachronism of his time. Argentina is not the same country it was when it had good relations with the UK. Nor is the world the same.

If you asked 100 argentines under the age of 100 for one reason why it is important to have good relations with the UK, they could not name one.

The UK has never held any agreements it has signed with non-Europeans, has broken each and every single one of them. They are part of an entity, the EU, bent on expansionism at any costs (look at the EU shoving its way east). They have never apologized for colonialism around the world. Never handed reparations to slaves or natives. Never apologized for being directly responsible for the extinction of dozens of sea and land mammals and bird species.

Be a positive force for good in the world, and not a the source of division and arrogance they stand for today. Made all the worse by their steady decline which makes such behavior even more out of place.

Only after all those things would Argentines begin to warm up to the idea of friendship with the UK, and as long as they stop whinging about signing agreements with them or the islanders. There is nothing to sign regarding the the ocean, the fisheries, or the rest. They have their waters, we have ours. It would be a good start if they also referred to us by name and not “a certain country not far from here”.

But since none of the above will happen, it is relieving to know we are permanently free from the entangling of their grip. Any nation that has ever been friends with the UK has regretted it, they always get dragged into the mud the UK has created throughout its history.
21 JollyGoodFun (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 02:29 pm Report abuse
Argentine attempt at a psy-ops. The dude looks like the Mad Hatter from Alice in Wonderland.

His suggestion at subtlety is from wonderland too.

Argentina, you have three options.

1 - recognise the Falkland Islanders, trade with them, and hope they choose to become Argentine rather than independent.
2 - recognise the Falkland Islanders, trade with them and the Uk, leading to great economic benefit, and hope they vote to join Argentina rather than becoming independence.
3 - invade (again) and hope and pray the repercussions do not spread to Argentina, then decide whether you want to remain an overseas territory of the Falkland Islands or one day become an independent nation called Lo siento me hablar y comprende es muy poco espanol.

All in favour of 3 say aye (in true pirating fashion)
22 golfcronie (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 02:31 pm Report abuse
@20
Your history is not so rosy, but you Argentines can blame the Spanish. Who colonised South America again? The Spanish and Portuguese
23 the_Truth_shall_B_Trolld (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 02:58 pm Report abuse
@22

The problem is not the history, the problem is how you deal with it afterwards.

As basically everyone here has stated, German, Japan, and all other nations have apologized for their worst transgressions. The UK has not, and it has a similar development as those countries.

Notice how in all the commentaries above, it is everyone that must apologize to the UK, and never the UK to others.

Rather twisted narcissism?
24 JollyGoodFun (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 03:05 pm Report abuse
Come on, we all know that only the British colonised. Those evil baby eating devils.

They dressed up as and put on pretend accents to make people think they were Portuguese and Spanish.

I went to school in Argentina by the way!

Good old Argentine foreign policy (or lack of). My poor education was the fault of the British too, dam those usurping pirates. We Argentines have owned the Falklands cough, errr make believe Malvinas for over 500 years.

The whole world supports our (fake) claim, including all future space colonies, who by the way are also Argentinas. These were given to us by the Spanish recorded in a document that doesn't exist, but it is real I promise. We never lie......ever..... And I never lie about such serious things.

Viva las Diego Maradona!
25 the_Truth_shall_B_Trolld (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 03:09 pm Report abuse
Oh so that's excempts you from guilt or apology, because everyone else “didit”?

Is that another example of the sublime British morale vs other cultures I hear all of you blathering about?
26 CabezaDura2 (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 03:10 pm Report abuse
I dont see any point in pressuring the islanders, it would be better to just leave them alone.

I think Argentina must re establish good and decent relations with the UK. The UK is still a far too big country and actually quite easy going in the world still and a major overseas investor. That is what is really important.
27 Monkeymagic (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 03:10 pm Report abuse
Trolley

A quick few examples of UK apologies....

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9853263/David-Cameron-a-history-of-political-apologies.html

Please can you find similar Argentine apologies to the Falkland Islanders for 1982....or shut your ridiculous lying bitter pathetic little gob...!
28 FI_Frost (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 03:15 pm Report abuse
@23

Tell me, what on earth should the UK apologise to Argentina for (in living memory)? Helping to restore democracy to Argentina in 83 perhaps?
29 JollyGoodFun (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 03:16 pm Report abuse
No come on now. No one else has done it, and no one else still is doing it.

Only Britain is evil. The whole world knows this.

If you travel their they sacrifice small albino babies at stone henge while chanting colonise, colonise!

It is real I can assure you. When they're not sacrificing, Brits are making bomb vests and lively knitwear.

Never trust a Brit, they will borrow your money and never pay it back. They also blame everyone else for their problems.

Evil Britain, they even invented cricket to enslave the masses. Cricket is Evil!

Viva las Michelangelo's Arse!
30 the_Truth_shall_B_Trolld (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 03:28 pm Report abuse
@27

Argentina is not developed like the UK, Germany, Japan, the others in the EU, etc. So it has no reason to apologize, as the standards are not the same.

@28

Where did I say you had to apologize to Argentina? I clearly mentioned the things the UK must apologize for, to OTHERS. Sure they apologized to India, but what about the others?
31 JollyGoodFun (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 03:38 pm Report abuse
@30 - the UK is sorry for any past transgressions to other nations but thankful for all the excellent progress their national institutions have made and the infrastructure development.

Argentina - apologise for you current actions, come on now, surely the whole world doesn't support your imperialist agenda and thievery...... Let's not ask your Government aye!
32 paulcedron (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 04:00 pm Report abuse
neither argentina nor the uk are important players in the current world.
so nobody cares too much if they improve their relationship, commerce, future business, etc.

about malvinas, sadly it is a lost cause.
commercially, they are insignificant for the rest of the world, except maybe for the uk.

guess things will remain the same, probably the latin american countries will try a bit more to isolate the islets as a way to reject colonialism in south america.

the only thing i hope is that those 3rd class oil companies, rockhopper and premier oil, do not cause a new enviromental disaster like the rest of the british oil companies.
33 Porkchop (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 04:08 pm Report abuse
@30

“Argentina is not developed like the UK, Germany, Japan, the others in the EU, etc. So it has no reason to apologize, as the standards are not the same.”

Are you for real, sheight for brains? You're arguing that since Argentina remains undeveloped, it can do what it wants & not have the decency to apologise?

An 8 year old child is 'undeveloped' but if it was to kick a ball through my window, I'd expect an apology because you know, it's just good manners. But evidently good manners are hard to go by with Argentina. Burning tyres is far easier so I guess just stick to doing that.
34 the_Truth_shall_B_Trolld (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 04:19 pm Report abuse
Right because Argentina is supposed to behave like a developed country but get none of the benefits.

You get real!
35 A_Voice (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 04:25 pm Report abuse
29
....“Viva las Michelangelo's Arse!”..??

Michelangelo was gay...what are you trying to tell us...?
36 ynsere (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 04:43 pm Report abuse
García Moritán is the voice of reason. As compared to the members of CFK's administration, that is.
37 the_Truth_shall_B_Trolld (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 04:44 pm Report abuse
THe problem is the other side is devoid of reason, they have no interest in good relations with Argentina. His suggestion is to be forgotten. Things will stay as they are today forever.
38 yankeeboy (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 04:52 pm Report abuse
Today they're talking about keeping Bread at $18/kilo and I have to laugh because it reminds me of the 1700s when the peasants revolted because bread was too high.

Psst that's an 80% increase yoy. Theres no wonder the teachers aren't going to accept 30%.

What a crazy place Argentina is...

cat food para todos (right around the corner)
39 the_Truth_shall_B_Trolld (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 04:57 pm Report abuse
descrier.co.uk/uk/2014/03/britains-five-richest-families-worth-poorest-20-uk-population/

So 20 people in the UK have more money than 16 million.
And 4 people hold more wealth than 6.5 million.

First world? Looks like Brazil or Chile to me.

“Britain is becoming a deeply divided nation, with a wealthy elite who are seeing their incomes spiral up, while millions of families are struggling to make ends meet.

Increasing inequality is a sign of economic failure rather than success. It’s far from inevitable – a result of political choices that can be reversed. It’s time for our leaders to stand up and be counted on this issue.”

descrier.co.uk/uk/2014/03/britains-five-richest-families-worth-poorest-20-uk-population/
40 GFace (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 05:01 pm Report abuse
@32 “guess things will remain the same, probably the latin american countries will try a bit more to isolate the islets as a way to reject colonialism in south america.”

You mean impose racist colonialist fascism on the islets against their will. Which is ok I guess if you speak Spanish or Portuguese and the other people well... don't. Do you have ANY clue how bad Argentina looks outside of your fashionably racist identify politics bubble on this?
41 HansNiesund (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 05:04 pm Report abuse
@33

Tobias has a diploma in Anglo-Satanic Studies from Mendoza Clown College. There's no point in arguing with him. He knows that history consists of a list of bad things done by Brits, and nobody much else was involved.
42 the_Truth_shall_B_Trolld (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 05:09 pm Report abuse
@41

Wrong, if most people here were Germans, or Spanish, or Italians, I would be educating them on THEIR crimes.

The truth shall be trolld.
43 knarfw (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 05:09 pm Report abuse
@ 39 No surprises there, the same can be said for almost any country. In fact the 85 wealthiest people in the World have more combined assets that half the entire population of the planet. I'm betting that it would take several million of the poorest Argentineans to equal CFK and her family's assets.

Also, just beacuse the article states 'poorest' doesn't necessarily mean that they are poor.
44 GFace (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 05:12 pm Report abuse
@41 Brownshirt Bait prides himself on his “mastery” of foreign languages which is coupled with his wilful total ignorance of the cultures that speak them. It's like someone claiming to have a doctorate in literature having only read the cliffs notes and seen the movie. Too smart to study. Too dumb to learn.
45 Condorito (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 05:43 pm Report abuse
@42 toby
What about the French?

If they weren't the nasty enough already, surely they must be now that they are helping Argentina on her European begging tour. Helping Arg open the door to more borrowing, the horror, the horror.
46 paulcedron (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 05:49 pm Report abuse
it is a bit sad that many here could not differentiate between a former colony (australia, argentina, brazil, u.s., uruguay, nz, etc.), and the anachronic colonies of the 21st century (malvinas, gibraltar, bermuda, etc)

it has nothing to do with “racism” that the rest of latin america reject them.

those colonies are parasite territories, in most of the cases they are also tax havens and smugglers paradises.

so, any attempt to do business with malvinas, gibraltar, etc is a complete waste of time and resources.
47 Gordo1 (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 05:55 pm Report abuse
@20 the_Truth_shall_B_Trolld

“The UK has never held any agreements it has signed with non-Europeans, has broken each and every single one of them.” This statement is untrue as in 1850 Britain and Argentina celebrated the Arana Southern Treaty which celebrated friendship between the two nations and in which Argentina clearly stated that there were no outstanding matters between them thus tacitly accepting that they had forsaken their claims to the Falklands/Malvinas.
48 rupertbrooks0 (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 06:00 pm Report abuse
The 1968 memorandum of understanding was largely written by Argentina and partially agreed to by officials at the FCO (Foreign and Commonwealth Office). It was never official government policy, nor was a final draft ever agreed. It essentially agreed to hand over the islands to Argentina, with some, unstated provisions, regarding the islanders “interests”.

The memorandum contradicted a statement made by the then Labour Foreign Secretary Michael Stewart, to parliament in April 1965, namely that in any negotiations with Argentina, the wishes of the islanders would be paramount.

Once the islanders got wind of the governments intentions, they contacted their friends in the UK House of Commons, who raised an almighty fuss.

Michael Stewart warned the Argentine Foreign Minister Costa Mendez at the UN in October 1968 that political trouble was brewing in London and the chances of fulfilling the memorandum were slim.

Lord Chalfont, the minister of State for Latin American affairs was sent to the Falklands in October 1968 to “sell” the idea to the islanders. He totally failed, generating nothing but fear and hostility. The reaction in the British media was equally hostile. The then Labour Government abandoned the memorandum in early December.

A few days later on 11th December 1968 Foreign Secretary Stewart in a statement to parliament said....

“In no circumstances would the UK put itself in a position in which it would be required to surrender sovereignty against the wishes of the islanders”

This has remained official government policy ever since.

It is therefore totally false for Ambassador Roberto García Moritán to claim that the memorandum was:

........ “only waiting to fix the date for the definitive transfer of Falklands/Malvinas sovereignty to Argentina”.

It wasn’t. It had been abandoned by the UK government because it did not have the support of the Falkland islanders, nor the UK cabinet, nor the British press and nor Parliament eithe
49 GFace (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 06:04 pm Report abuse
@46. So when Latin Americans don't want non-latin americans around that's not racism.... Right. You are very outward with your nationalist inspired bigotry that you've been spoon feed. You talk of anachronistic colonization but want to colonize and oppress people against their will who aren't like you. You dehumanize the Falklanders and criminialze them like the rest (Smugglers? Tax Cheats? In STANLEY? Right.). You've already laid your anti-british prejudices here on the floor here more than once. You've got racism problems Paul against “not-your-kind-of-people” living next door to you free, happy and striving to be better and doing NOTHING to hurt you -- other than saying “no” to you over and over and over. Join the 21st century and stop whining about your lost East Prussia. The Islanders belong to the Islanders. Full. Stop.
50 Condorito (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 06:09 pm Report abuse
@48
Very informative post.
51 sussie@usa (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 06:15 pm Report abuse
”argentine and brits'..????????????????????

This Garcia Moritan is out of this world!

Islands or no islands

CFK or no CFK

Argentina is ANTI-BRITISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AFUERA DE MI PAIS, INGLESES ODIOSOS!
52 paulcedron (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 06:31 pm Report abuse
49
again, it has nothing to do with racism,with being anti british or whatever you want to call it.
it is against 21st century colonialism.
and it is not my personal opinion, but the opinion of most of the latin american leaders and govts.

about the islands, again, it is a lost cause.

just do not contaminate the atlantic.
you know, british + oil = monkeys + machineguns
53 rupertbrooks0 (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 06:35 pm Report abuse
50 Condorito

Thanks. The full text of the (6 paragraph) memorandum of understanding can be found on pages 130-131 of:

Roberto C. Laver ; The Falklands/Malvinas Case: Breaking the Deadlock in the Anglo-Argentine sovereignty dispute (pub 2001) The Hague.

The memorandum was effectively derailed by “The Falklands lobby”. This was a group of mostly Conservative MP’s who had a particular interest in the Falklands. Whenever the Falklands government got wind of a Foreign Office plot to “sell them out” to Argentina against their wishes, they would write to these MP’s and who would therefore raise questions on their behalf in Parliament.

Just doing their job really: protecting the rights and liberties of British subjects against the executive.
54 Conqueror (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 06:48 pm
Comment removed by the editor.
55 GFace (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 06:50 pm Report abuse
@52 Most of Europe hated the Jews before the Shoah. That made it right I guess based on what passes for your argument. Just like resenting people who live in the falklands, which will eventually become independent regardless of your fascist colonialist lust. And right now they are a BOT/NGST for TWO reasons. Right now they are not secure enough militarily or politically to be fully independent and TWO they know enough of your governments and past treatment (i.e. 1982) to want nothing to do with their nearest “neighbor.” Nothing more. That tipping point where they will be sufficient and secure enough for independence is coming. Aren;t you seeing how your neighbors are secretly talking to them already? No longer a “colony.” No excuses. They'll be just like you, except not siting on a mass grave of first nations people. THEN what will “no-racist” “anti-colonialists” like you do to justify your need to step on their necks?

oh... and ... Contaminating? Monkeys? Not racist? Boy this just ISN'T your day.
56 La Patria (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 07:00 pm Report abuse
@51 no estan en tu pais querida!
57 paulcedron (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 07:02 pm Report abuse
55
my neighbours?
you mean the govts of my neighbor countries?
nothing has changed regarding malvinas.

as for contaminating the ocean, have you ever heard about deepwater horizon and many disasters more provoked by british oil companies?

what has racism got to do with that?

are you sure you know what racism is?
58 golfcronie (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 07:13 pm Report abuse
@32
You obviously have not been to Neuquen Province, the oil is mainly on the surface next to the nodding donkeys. YPF is causing an environmental problem. I once rescued a fox that was covered in oil.
59 Faz (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 07:18 pm Report abuse
Paul @57 Yes, we are absolutely committed to surrounding Argentina by a gigantic oil slick. Spot on!

And, you seem to be the epitome of racists in Argentina, - the way you treated your surviving indigenous indians (the ones you didn't murder), and, the way you treat black people, and the way you seek to deny Falkland Islanders of human rights. Perhaps we can take lessons from you - lol, NOT!
60 Jack Bauer (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 07:29 pm Report abuse
@20 Truth TellingTroll - “If you asked 100 argentines under the age of 100 for one reason why it is important to have good relations with the UK, they could not name one”
This is not surprising, because they are either ignorant or brainwashed.
@23 - “As basically everyone here has stated, German, Japan, and all other nations have apologized for their worst transgressions”“
Well, Germany & Japan started the f**king war, then lost it....Apologizing to the world is the least they could do. But that is now ancient history....But tell me, what OTHER nations ”apologized“ and what were ”their worst transgressions“ ?

@51 Sussie the Pussie :”AFUERA DE MI PAIS, INGLESES ODIOSOS!“
the Yanks could - and should - give YOU the same ultimatum, ”ARGENTINO PELOTUDO !!
61 paulcedron (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 07:31 pm Report abuse
58
i worked in the loma de la lata area for 9 months, the problem there is nothing when you compare it with all the mess british petrol, shell, etc did and still do around the world.

59
what black people?
have you ever been here?
no?
black people, indigenous people from bolivia, perú, paraguay, etc, come here as migrants cause they know they will be accepted and not jailed and deported like in the u.s.or u.k.

you treat the immigrants (legal or ilegal) as if they were criminals.
and you talk about racism?
funny
62 yankeeboy (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 07:38 pm Report abuse
Is Argentina Paying For Amicus Briefs In Foreign Debt Case Before U.S. Supreme Court?
www.forbes.com/sites/wlf/2014/03/19/is-argentina-paying-for-amicus-briefs-in-foreign-debt-case-before-u-s-supreme-court/

Tsk Tsk

What a bunch of losers. They have no idea how things work in civilized countries and only make themselves look foolish and like the filthy thugs they really are.
63 the_Truth_shall_B_Trolld (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 07:47 pm Report abuse
British born in Knightsbridge: life expectancy 97 years
British born in outskirts of Liverpool: 65 years (less than in Bangladesh!)

:o
64 yankeeboy (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 07:52 pm Report abuse
OMG I love Knightsbridge! What a gorgeous place, great shopping, hotels, restaurants!
That's where I stay every time I visit London.

Too bad you'll never see it Toby.
The avg hotel room per night is more than your parents make in a month or two.
65 GFace (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 07:53 pm Report abuse
@57 DUDE! BRO! Come ON! Pull the other one. Your government's just fine with oil shale (FREAKING SHALE!!) and offshore drilling when THEY do it! Your government can be politically described unfavorably as red and/or brown but like most other governments in the world, they can never be called “green.”

As for the rest of Latin America being behind the sovereignty claim, in “solidarity” mode and “let's yes-yes to our passive aggressive mentally unhinged neighbor to the south” mode maybe... BUT... whenever a Falkland visits them they are not arrested and extradited to Buenos Aires or deported to London but leave home for Stanley. They are fine talking with them on the QT. And when the oil pans out guess what. They will be talking to them more....

...Which brings us to the big question that you dodged. When the Islands are independent, THEN what trope will you jump on to object to non-Argentine non-Spanish and to make it worse ENGLISH speakers living free from you on the middle of the South Atlantic? Can't claim colonialism. Can't claim imperialism. That's ok. You will always have your bigotry that you have openly put on display here more than once. To be sure, you're not at the level of Toby Brownshirt Bait who recently let his little antisemitism out of the closet when he couldn't being himself to identify with the AIMA victims as *Argentine* victims of Terrorism but you are showing more than a little internalized bigotry.
66 BOTINHO (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 08:33 pm Report abuse
I agree with Roberto García Moritán

He is of course, addressing his own government in his rather brave statements , and his challenging ideas make sense. He is telling those without homes apparently at the Casa Rosada to cut the finger-pointing, screaming, shouting, and petulant accusations, as they have achieved nothing except to polarize both sides, without results.

Argentina had a good relationship in the past with other countries, including the United Kingdom. The current group of misfits, malcontents, and novice-Marxists are so ill-prepared to govern and manage Argentina that the have resorted to a sort of face-saving with the Argentine citizens, with the repetitive demonizing of the British over the Falkland Islands.

We are all tired of seeing and hearing the same thing, by the most dull, dim-witted, and unimaginative people. Before Ms. Castro, Mr. Rossi, or Mr. Timmerman utter yet another tired word of the same false anger and worn-out propaganda, my ears start curling over.

Drop the empty threats, change the broken record, retire some if not all of the cast, and return to meaningful diplomatic dialogue
67 GFace (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 08:45 pm Report abuse
And Look Paul.

I know you don't think you're racist and I know you’re just a naive kid brought up in a bubble where anti-Falklander bigotry is part of establishing your identity as a citizen. But I've worked with people like the one you’re turning into. I had to keep someone from quitting because of such people. I’ve had to “contain” such folk, and otherwise, I’ve had to make sure that my organization is a safe and productive workplace for a diverse cosmopolitan workforce even though it’s not in my job description because of “just one” a__hole.

And each one makes it clear. None of the people like the one you’re turning into is “racist.” No. They have a problem with ‘their’ “culture.” “They steal.” “They cheat.” “They have a hygiene problem.” “‘My people’ have difficulty interacting with them.” That’s my favorite!” “But they say that too when they’re with their own people.”

Some subconsciously internalize that bigotry they hold inside and others shockingly flaunt it. “He’s not a European, he’s a Jew.” (No really!) And then there are people who are shocked at how they’ve behaved and change.

So yes, you have a problem with “colonialism” sitting in the western hemisphere as an “implant” in a westernized christian-oriented democracy. And it really IS about “oil” when your country drills and shovels it out of the ground like everyone else when they find it under their feet. It's about warmongering when you have a coin celebrating illegally invading the Islanders' lives by force (and don’t EVER pretend that it’s about supporting the conscripts). And of course whatever the it-du-jour is, it’s always someone else fault — namely the big bad English-speaking (of course) Norte up there and not the Spanish conquistadores and Argentine gauchos that ethically cleaned and involuntarily subdued the natives on whose homes you now live while objecting to a few thousand people who want to live and let live in the south atlantic.

And you STILL just don’t get it, do you?
68 Klingon (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 09:04 pm Report abuse
Argentina will give up it's claim to the Falkland's if they promise to recall all their junk with full repayment + interest.
I am talking Ford Taurus, Morris , Vauxhall and other piles of doom laying around on front lawns across Argentina.
69 rupertbrooks0 (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 09:16 pm Report abuse
64 yankeeboy

Ah Knightsbridge. Lunch at Hestons in the Mandarin, wonderful views over Hyde Park, and the food! Classic British recipes, many dating from the 15th and 16th centurys. The spiced pigeon was stunning. And then afterwards pop in to Harrods across the street.

They had a branch in Buenos Aires once upon a time, back in the good old days, all gone now of course. Such a pity.

For my afternoon refreshments I like to drop into Ca’puccinos on the Kings road. Wonderful Italian coffee and pastries. I love to sit outside and watch the world go by. At least that part of the world which finds itself strolling through Chelsea of a Spring afternoon.

Then there's the V & A down the road. Well Knightsbridge, I can talk all day.
70 toooldtodieyoung (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 09:22 pm Report abuse
52 paulcedron

“and it is not my personal opinion, but the opinion of most of the latin american leaders and govts.”

So, by your own admission, most of the latin american leaders and govts are racist.

Thank you for clearing that one up for us.
71 Jack Bauer (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 09:44 pm Report abuse
I would like to be able to believe Roberto G. Moritán's sincerity, but coming from an Argie, makes you stop and think. But regardless of what he thinks, If Argentina wants to mend the bridge to the UK - and NOT the other way around - CFK, or whoever succeeds her , needs to change Argentine foreign policy by 180 degrees. And looking into the future, assuming that the Argentine and the UK finally get to a point where they decide to sit down and improve bilateral relations, one thing is sacred - the future of the Falklands MUST be left up to the islanders to decide, through self-determination....even if they decide to maintain their link with the UK (or not - which I doubt)...but anyway, while I'm sure that the UK would agree to this, not so sure about the tricky Argies...
72 Faz (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 10:09 pm Report abuse
Yes Paul, I have been there many times and seen the racism at first hand. Why are all the Cartoneros Indians? Have you ever been to the Falklands or England and wondered why our environment and lives are so much better than yours? Its very simple, our hero isnt Peron, Castro or Chavez and we innovate and work hard.
73 sussie@usa (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 10:43 pm Report abuse
@60 Jack FELCH

Ninguna persona de este pais (usa) la palabra ''''''''yankee''''''''

Keep your Bell End for the british men....Asqueroso!
74 A_Voice (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 11:11 pm Report abuse
69
...and a branch in Manchester....I read it in the 1895 Harrods catalogue....of which I have in my possession, apparently it is the only one left in existence.
Harrods did have one but it disappeared...I'm considering loaning it to them so they can reprint it.
They have done with later editions...
Your comment reminded me...
75 puerto argentino (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 11:33 pm Report abuse
27 monkeymagic,
It is just for you! www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/10706185/Falkland-Islands-will-be-ours-says-Argentinas-new-minister.html

So , We are waiting for an apology from the, Uk by the expulsion of our people and our Governor , Luis Vernet of The Argentina Malvinas Islands
76 JollyGoodFun (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 11:40 pm Report abuse
@35 - I didn't know that about Michaelangilo. It does make me a little worried about what you're typing into Google.
77 paulcedron (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 11:44 pm Report abuse
65
gface
“ To be sure, you're not at the level of Toby Brownshirt Bait who recently let his little antisemitism out of the closet when he couldn't being himself to identify with the AIMA victims as *Argentine* victims of Terrorism but you are showing more than a little internalized bigotry.”
dont know who toby blablabla is, but he is right in one thing.
all the victims of amia were argentinian except two workers from bolivia.
so where is the antisemitism there?

“ I know you’re just a naive kid brought up in a bubble where anti-Falklander bigotry is part of establishing your identity as a citizen. But I've worked with people like the one you’re turning into.”

no, don't give yourself too much credit.
you know nothing.

72
most of the cartoneros are bolivian, peruvian or paraguayan, who emigrated in the last 5 years +/-.

now if you talk about england you have a similar problem with romanians

“Shanty town on a suburban London street: Romanians scrape a living amid squalor of dump”

“Suburban slumdogs: Scores of desperate migrants crammed into a shanty town of sheds and garages by ruthless landlords. No, not Mumbai... London!”

but what i liked the most of british solidarity with immigrants was the “go home” vans campaign.
78 A_Voice (#) Mar 19th, 2014 - 11:47 pm Report abuse
76
Not Google.....Studied knowledge.....Art is one of my main interests and was part of my Uni education...
....read some of his poetry and sonnets....then you will know...
79 golfcronie (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 12:12 am Report abuse
@61
At least you do not deny the oil spills in Loma de la Lata then. A first for an Argentinian admitting the truth.
80 yankeeboy (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 12:27 am Report abuse
There's a perception in Argentina that all the people who live in the slums or the indigent that goes through the mounds of garbage every night are “others” it is a lie they are mostly Rgs.
Also Rgs are extremely prejudiced against Jews and dark skinned people. The way they treat them is flabbergasting. I tell my black friends not to go to Argentina since they will be treated terribly and most likely not let in to the discos or the nice restaurants.
It is shameful and embarrassing in this day and age.
81 puerto argentino (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 12:36 am Report abuse
80 @ just this perception in Uk!!!
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10701826/Scottish-yes-vote-will-force-Britain-to-abandon-nuclear-weapons.html
82 GFace (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 12:48 am Report abuse
@77 Way off, Paul: Brownshirt Bait didn't consider the AIMA bombing, the murder of argentine Jews in Argentina as an attach on Argentina per se whereas, oddly enough, the 7/7 bombings in London attacking only people using mass transit was an attack on the UK and 9/11 attacking American Airlines and passengers, United Airlines and passengers, WTC workers and Pentagon Workers. The AIMA folk just aren't his kind of Argentines it seems. So much for national, let alone Argentine solidarity.

And then there's you.. You still dodge the question of how you would cope with an independent Falklands as they are slowly evolving into, each day further and further away from your governments grasp. Or will you will still be screaming hypocritical cries of “colonialism” from your own ex-colony into which your family implanted itself (by your own admission) atop land that was stolen by force from the indigenous people. Just admit your bigotry against the british and falklanders that you have pretty much already directly admitted to having. Face it, you've been obediantly conditioned to be unable to cope with english-speaking non-Spanish/Portuguese people living peacefully without your “permission” near the southern cone for nearly two centuries (gee, as since the same era as Argentina's formation and no one is complaining about THAT). And they will still be living there whether you like it or not when they are no longer a “BOT” or “NGST”.
83 JollyGoodFun (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 12:50 am Report abuse
@78 - I might read one at some point. Unfortunately I don't have much free time on my hands at the minute, apart from the occasional posting on here :-)

You seem somewhat calmer today, which is a good thing.

So what are your genuine thoughts on the article?
84 rupertbrooks0 (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 01:32 am Report abuse
74 A_Voice

A Harrods in Manchester! I didn't know that. I've never even been to Manchester. Although I have plans to this summer.

I heard a rumour somewhere that there are plans to re-open the Buenos Aires branch.

Harrods really is an impressive shop. The largest in Europe. You really can buy anything and everything there. There are 28 cafes, bars and restaurants within this single shop. Thats more than some small towns.
85 paulcedron (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 01:42 am Report abuse
“how you would cope with an independent Falklands as they are slowly evolving into, each day further and further away from your governments grasp.”

my personal opinion is that an independent falklands would be accepted by the rest of latin america, including argentina.
maybe not by this government.
but let´s talk about the real thing.
they are not independent and clearly they want to remain as a british colony.

about all that no sense of being unable to cope with english-speaking non-Spanish/Portuguese people, most of my ancestors were also english speaking non spanish portuguese people.

you want to make it appear as a racist issue when it is a question of sovereignity , territorial dispute.
86 A_Voice (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 01:43 am Report abuse
83
The guy is living in the past....the world has moved on, even the Russians are using the self-determination card...it's like the new trump card...can't be beaten...
Of course with the Russians it helps having a large military, Argentina don't have that power so it's talks or nothing....until the balance of power changes....
87 GFace (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 02:07 am Report abuse
@85 A territorial despite that your government has vacated at every opportunity just as its had with the resolutions where it must explicitly accept and recognize the islanders. No trip to the ICJ == No dispute. And they know they would never win in the 21st century especially when the Islanders have been so vocal in expressing their basic human right to say “NO!”.

As for them wanting to “stay” a colony for now, listen to the Falklanders who post here. Currently they want the status quo just as the people in other NGSTs protected by other countries have voted (to the humiliation of the Great Blue Fathers of the C24 who still don't get it). But they have also explicitly and organismically self-identified here as a Nation to themselves. A british nation but apart for the UK proper. They will be independent. They already run the game in all but “Foreign Policy” (which London pretty much lets them lead) and Defense which can be handled by the same arrangement that Micronesia has with the US for example). The anti-colinialist in me would rather it be sooner following models like the Commonwealth or that US-Micronesia relationship but the model is theirs to chose, and your governments childish backwad-thinking fascistic colonialist stance against them doesn't help. And Argentina is NOT going to be part of the formula. A trade partner would be nice and as good as you'll get but never “shared sovereignty” or other comedy gold. As for your country (as opposed to government) supporting their independence. Good luck. No really. I mean it. Good luck with that.
88 paulcedron (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 02:28 am Report abuse
“And Argentina is NOT going to be part of the formula.”

well, that would not be a problem neither for argentina nor for the islands.
guess argentina is more interested in trading with brazil, mexico or china.
and the islands are interested in trading with... britain? chile maybe?

the truth is that none of the current governments of latin america (except chile maybe) are interested in the islands, their oil (if there is oil there), their fish or sheep.

all those commodities/ products exist in latin america at a lot larger scale.
89 JollyGoodFun (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 03:49 am Report abuse
@86 - So do you see Crimea and Russia, as the same as Argentina and Falkland Islands?

As i see it, the only identical part is the use of the word self-determination (but not it's meaning on context).

One is situation is backed by historical and legal fact, not to mention the moral implications.

The other violates a signed agreement between Russia and the Ukraine, completely ignores the Ukrainian constitution.

Imagine in this day and age that because people speak the same language you can invade a country, hold a referendum and then claim that country as your own.

That means that the UK can invade Argentina due to the number of British Expats and then hold a referendum ignoring Argentine law.

It's a pretty dangerous precedence to set by Russia.

That's my 5p worth. Now i'm off to read about Michelangelo's homosexual tendencies (just pulling your chain, oh wait, that might not be the best term to use here lol)
90 the_Truth_shall_B_Trolld (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 03:55 am Report abuse
@80

How would you know they are mostly argies? Of course you don't just another pathetic statement without any substantiation. What is your fucking problem really with Argentina? You are a dirty oily fat American worry about your pile.

An American talking about how they treat blacks. Simply shameless.
91 LEPRecon (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 06:46 am Report abuse
@90 Tobias

Did Yankeeboy hit a nerve?

Fancy swearing like that! Tut, tut, an intellectual resorting to swearing! Where have all your outdated phrases gone?

But he was telling the truth.

Argentines refuse to accept the truth.

1. Argentina started the Falklands War - except that people like you say it wasn't it was the 'Junta' and talk about them like they were invaders from another planet.

2. Argentina committed acts of genocide against the indigenous populations in Patagonia and other regions - except that people like you say that you didn't, and it was only a few thousand anyway, and those indigenous people actually came from Chile. Oh the excuses we've heard regarding that.

3. Argentina isn't a tolerant society - you say it is the most progressive society in the world, unless you are black, jewish, or any other that you deem inappropriate.

The real problem with Argentina, Tobias, is people like you.

In a real democracy it is not only the right of the people to criticise the government it is the DUTY of the people to criticise the government. But people like YOU Tobias cannot understand that you can be both critical AND patriotic at the same time.

In your indoctrinated 'view' to criticise the government, the history or any facet of Argentine politics or society is basically treasonous.

This is very childish thinking - not intellectual at all.

But you can overcome it. First you need to acknowledge responsibility for things that happened in the past. Responsibility doesn't mean it was your fault personally, but the fault of past generations. Acknowledging it allows you and your country - plus any others that were affected by those actions - to move on.

You could even try reparations to those you have harmed. Like the indigenous populations of South America and the indigenous population of the Falkland Islands.

Apologising is a start. Perhaps one day Argentina will be grown up enough, and man enough, to admit that you were wrong.
92 BOTINHO (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 06:48 am Report abuse
I read that “ a free election ” was held in the Crimea, but I cannot see any evidence of one.

Nor do I even see any evidence of a free referendum having taken place.

What I do see is a major power (Russia) admitting that a number of armed balaklava-hooded “tourists” (Soviet military) moving into a nearby country, by land , see, and air ( also piloted by tourists apparently), taking control of military, governmental, and police locations by force.

Then under the gun of the masked, and armed “ tourists, ” a hurriedly-organized referendum was held, without the input of the Ukrainian government. This was then broadcast around the world as so sort of triumphal vote to return to the waiting arms of Mother Russia.

RT and other sources now feel free to bring up the “plight” of the other poor victimized Russians in Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Belarus, and other countries, reserving “ the right ” to protect Russian citizens.

No one would accept this as either free or fair, but it does ring a familiar bell, and not only in 1939 with Nazi Germany.

Back in 1958 Fidel Castro, among other things, promised free and fair elections after he took power. Today in 2014, the Cubans are still waiting.

Looking at the results, I can see why some in Argentina and Venezuela instead of condemning it, find this action in the Crimea most appealing.
93 Porkchop (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 08:41 am Report abuse
@34 So called truth patrol...

Personal responsiblity has nothing to do with any rewards or benefits, sheight for brains. When you do something wrong, you appoligise - you are not rewarded for doing the right thing.

When the child who kicks a ball through my window appoligises, I don't reward it by handing out sweets.

Stop creating alternate accounts, stop pretending you're in a position to educate anybody and get a fecking life.

FOOL.
94 lsolde (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 10:43 am Report abuse
@88 paulcedron,
We will trade with anyone.
lts really no problem.
They'll be lining up to buy OUR oil.
Super tankers that will sail direct to the markets, wherever that may be.
We don't need Argentina.
But they could have been part of it,
Sad.
95 golfcronie (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 10:49 am Report abuse
@85
You still don't get it do you. THE FALKLANDS are a BOT ( British Overseas Territory ) not a so called colony. Seriously, who in their right mind would anyone want anything to do with the Government of Argentina, just a bunch of liars and hypocrites.
96 paulcedron (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 11:59 am Report abuse
isolde
“But they could have been part of it,”

isolde,
about petrol, argentina has to concentrate in the new 150 conventional oil wells in patagonia plus the shale oil field of vaca muerta.
i guess argentina would have never been part of it.

sadly the opportunity of trading / having better relations with the islands was lost +/- 20 years ago.

cisneros (not di tella) did a good job in those days, but having menem on one hand, blair on the other and kirchner after that, all finished in nothing.
97 yankeeboy (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 12:37 pm Report abuse
96. 150 new oil wells! Wow Gosh Unbelievable!
Its not near enough to make up for the HUGE decrease in the dying fields.

At some point very soon, I give it 5 months, if o/g companies don't flood into VM to explore they aren't going to. It is now or never.
Rumor is VM is not profitable.
and nobody is going to drill unprofitable wells

You are spending all of your SOY U$ importing fuel. The avg U$10B a year you've had for the last decade is gone. Car sales will be waaaay down and even a large grain crop won't make up for its loss.
98 lsolde (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 12:46 pm Report abuse
@96 paulcedron,
We had an agreement with Argentina about the oil.
Nestor tore it up because we refused to talk about our Sovereignty.
The two were not linked but he tried to make it so.
Also you have to realise that Argentina would have benefited in so many ways.
1)
Providing workers for the oilfields(their wages going to their families in Argentina).
2)
Providing fuels, spare parts, food, clothing, medical supplies etc.
3)
Refining the crude oil
4)
Transport.
5)
Agreements about the oil(l don't know the details).
Many more, but as l said, one deluded individual lost all that for Argentina because he wanted to own our land & our souls.
Now Argentina gets nothing.
As l said, you could have been part of it.
Sad.
99 CabezaDura2 (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 12:51 pm Report abuse
97

Yep, as I have already predicted Argentine middle class is going to be desperate to get rid of its used cars... The market is going to get stuffed with offers of used cars at any moment.

www.diariopopular.com.ar/notas/186391-record-venta-autos-usados-el-primer-bimestre-del-ano
100 Briton (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 07:42 pm Report abuse
You argies will do anything to save grace,

lets face it, you lost, and it hurts,
the islanders choose to be British, and it hurts,
CFK cant rule the Falkland's, and it hurts,
CFK wont get her Falkland's victory and it hurts,
Argentine will never get them, and it hurts

Our Advice to you all,
shut up , grow up , and put a plaster on it, then it may not hurt [ So Much lolol.]
101 RICO (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 07:44 pm Report abuse
# so Argentina had signed hydrocarbon and fisheries treaties with the UK and the islanders but unilaterally tore them up. They signed the Southern-Arana treaty and then launched a surprise attack with 8,000 troops against an island with just 60 military personnel.

Meanwhile Britain is criticised for not abiding by a Memorandum of Understanding that they did not prepare, did not sign or ratify and breaks a number of UN resolutions.

Ah yes it is Britain that doesn't keep its treaties and contracts with non European countries and not Argentina that breaks its treaties and contracts with everyone.

Ohh perfidious Albion.
102 Briton (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 07:58 pm Report abuse
If Argentine breaks into a couple of different countries, the world would be better of,
and the UN will get some peace.lol
103 lsolde (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 09:41 pm Report abuse
Agreed, Briton.
Maybe we then could come to some arrangement with one of the “new”countries.
Of course, even then, we will NOT discuss Sovereignty.
104 Jack Bauer (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 10:15 pm Report abuse
Sussie the pussie, yr #73 : ”Ninguna persona de este pais (usa) la palabra ''''''''yankee''''''''...Since when ?? so you think you are a scholar of the English language, do you, “cabeza de poronga ”??

And as for bell ends, I'm sure that they are your specialty and that you've sat on quite a lot of them....
105 Conqueror (#) Mar 20th, 2014 - 11:23 pm Report abuse
@52 I'm so glad you brought up “21st century colonialism” and patagonia. This may come as a surprise to you but the Falkland Islands were first “colonised” in the 17th century. And Gibraltar in the 18th century.

Now I'd like you to take a look at a map. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquest_of_the_Desert
Can you see the map alongside the section on “Alsina's campaign”? Note the dates? Now what gave you the right to spread west and south? And you hadn't even reached patagonia then! It's not as though the land was unoccupied. Can you see the similarity? 18th and 19th century and you were killing and colonising. A few miles away, Britain was only colonising. You even kept going until 1902. Tell us about Tierra del Fuego. That took you up to 1909. Then there was the Picton, Lennox and Nueva Islands. All the way from 1904 until 1984. Let's call that attempted colonialism.

So there's no “21st century colonialism”. Except insofar as maintaining an existing situation. And argieland is far more guilty than Britain. How many did you murder? There weren't any murders on the Falkland Islands until argies got there!

So when will you be giving Tierra del Fuego and Patagonia back to the Araucanians? Won't that sort of put paid to your oil wells?

Have you ever heard of the word “hypocrisy”? What it means is that some place with a long history of criminality, double-dealing, genocide, larceny and mendacity points at another place for doing less.

You brainwashed cretin!
106 GFace (#) Mar 21st, 2014 - 12:49 am Report abuse
@104, Ya know Jack, there are days where you just want to get to know Sussie a little bit better so you can get the name of her dealer -- because somedays a pharmaceutical vacation is just too good an idea to pass up.
107 ynsere (#) Mar 21st, 2014 - 01:58 am Report abuse
Conks @ 105

Good post. Keep it up. True and relevant info is so much more effective than invective.
108 paulcedron (#) Mar 21st, 2014 - 11:27 am Report abuse
105
“How many did you murder? ”
a lot less than the british empire. read your own history.

“So when will you be giving Tierra del Fuego and Patagonia back to the Araucanians?”

araucanian?
you don´t read too much history, do you?
araucanians are from chile, you brainwashed, ignorant cretin.

go back to primary school, retard.
109 JollyGoodFun (#) Mar 21st, 2014 - 11:51 am Report abuse
@108 - bless you Paul, you're a real charmer (sarcasm alert). 105's point is relevant in that Argentine history is far more bloody and genocidal.

Your ancestors were the bloody butchers of South America. Current events just might be Karma.

Queue the abuse lol
110 CabezaDura2 (#) Mar 21st, 2014 - 02:23 pm Report abuse
Aparently Argentina was supposed to let the indians attack raid, rape, burn and pillage cattle. The Araucans could also take part in Argentine politics and civil wars and choose sides. yep.........
111 golfcronie (#) Mar 21st, 2014 - 02:39 pm Report abuse
Who attacked who? Were the Araucans not protecting their traditional lands? I thought it was Roca that annexed Patagonia for the Argentine Confederation.
112 paulcedron (#) Mar 21st, 2014 - 03:02 pm Report abuse
108
my ancestors were immigrants, mostly from ireland.
what butchers are you talking about, you halfwit?
and neither portugal, spain, france nor any other powerhouse of that time can be compared with britain in terms of genocide, massive killings, enslavement, etc.
your ancestors were a real jewel.

111
why you insist in opining when you know nothing about argentina?
the local indigenous of those lands were the onas, tehuelches, pampas, etc.
the araucanians (from the arauco region, chile) were from... chile, you genius.
they were the first in invading and killing the local indians, and they advanced to the north to the buenos aires province.
113 Jack Bauer (#) Mar 21st, 2014 - 03:06 pm Report abuse
Conq@105 : INTERESTING reading. tks..
Paul@108 : regardless of the tribe(s) that occupied Patagonia, the Argentine Republic did a good job at eliminating the indians....no matter what the historians like to call the military campaign - annexation of a new land or pacification - the net result was the same....thousands of indians dead, or captive. The fact is that most European colonial history - AND that of the newly formed republics in S.America - records events of extermination of the indigenous peoples.....but you've got to remember that in the 17th and 18th centuries that was how things were done .....TODAY, is slightly diferent, or at least, supposed to be.
114 golfcronie (#) Mar 21st, 2014 - 05:18 pm Report abuse
@112
Genius, thanks paul, I have been called many things in life , but genius no, thanks so much.
115 CabezaDura2 (#) Mar 21st, 2014 - 06:49 pm Report abuse
111

NO, they were from the western side of the Andes and migrated AFTER the Spanish had already established in the River Plate. The Vice royalty marked a frontier territory with the indians that would remain pretty much the same for next 400 years along what is today the Argentine national 8 rute (W-E).
116 Briton (#) Mar 21st, 2014 - 07:48 pm Report abuse
As every argie schoolboy knows, the South Americans begged them to come,
Suggesting their Spanish forefathers were invited to South America,
Invited to spread disease and bloodshed,

To believe the Argies were anything other than gentlemen is absurd, surley.lol
According to CFK in every person, there is a new argie waiting to get out..
Unless you are a nasty British pirate…lol
.
117 CabezaDura2 (#) Mar 21st, 2014 - 07:59 pm Report abuse
116

Now you are just being stupid.

You will never see me attack Britain's past for it gave humanity many great things too and I understand the empire in the context of its times. I do however expect the same kind of understanding for XIX Century Argentina.
You are completaly wrong in fact its quite the opposite. The Ks are having Christopher Columbus statue removed from the city of Buenos Aires due to this indianism and politically correct ideology and place a statue of Juana Azurduy or some indian fighter, They also tried to take down Roca from Bariloche and out of the 100 peso notes.
118 Briton (#) Mar 21st, 2014 - 08:14 pm Report abuse
Well to think that Empress CFK was ever in the wrong was silly thing,

everyone knows the nasty British are holding the islanders hostage,
and refusing to let them become Argentinians...lol
119 paulcedron (#) Mar 21st, 2014 - 10:08 pm Report abuse
115
western side of los andes = chile
120 JollyGoodFun (#) Mar 22nd, 2014 - 12:05 am Report abuse
@112 - we will just have to agree to disagree.

What part of Ireland is your family from?

Britain's distant past may not be the cleanest of clean, yet the world's most desired destinations of immigrants are intact those nations seeded by British principles of law, governance and infrastructures. Quite a positive end result, just not the cleanest way of getting there.

Argentina's attempts at colonialism is going on in 2014. Scary thought.
121 paulcedron (#) Mar 22nd, 2014 - 02:33 am Report abuse
120
galway.
considering the good number of british who emigrated to spain, france, italy during the last 10 /20 years and the ones that emigrated to argentina +/- 100 years ago, it seems that even your countrymen prefer latin countries.

now get a map and try to use a bit of logic,
the only one colonialist here is britain, in the 21st century or in the century you want.
122 JollyGoodFun (#) Mar 22nd, 2014 - 09:14 am Report abuse
@120 - Galway, nice part of Ireland.

In all honesty you can't believe the UK is the colonialist here. It's a statement very much with blinkers on.

Did you study in Argentina? I mean that genuinely and not taking the pee.
123 Briton (#) Mar 22nd, 2014 - 06:45 pm Report abuse
121 what a load of sausages,
your inglorious empress stated only yesterday how many argentine emigrated to Europe in the 60,70,80s,

glad to escape your so called governments..
124 toooldtodieyoung (#) Mar 23rd, 2014 - 01:37 pm Report abuse
112 paulcedron

I notice that at no point in your post did you say that you didn't slaughter those tribes to take their land away from them.

Your argument seems to be:-

“We did do it yeah? so what, you did as well”

which is, if I might say so, pathetic.
125 paulcedron (#) Mar 23rd, 2014 - 02:18 pm Report abuse
124
no, you halfwit.
we are the first in recognize all the crimes committed during the campaña del desierto or during el proceso.
the responsibles of el proceso were judged and jailed.

now, what has britain done with their war criminals?
this?

“Time to properly investigate UK war crimes in Iraq
The British military justice system has shown itself unfit for purpose in handling war crimes committed outside the country, says Human Rights Watch's senior legal advisor”

“Hague rejects call for prosecutions over alleged Iraq war crimes”
126 toooldtodieyoung (#) Mar 23rd, 2014 - 07:59 pm Report abuse
125 paulcedron

“we are the first in recognize all the crimes committed during the campaña del desierto or during el proceso the responsibles of el proceso were judged and jailed”

........and the laying of uncharted minefields, the placing of hand grenades in school CHRILDREN's desks.....The placing of red crosses on ammo dumps

Have they been “judged and jailed” yet?

Like I said:- Pathetic.

As for the “Human Rights Watch's senior legal advisor” Is this the same one that hasn't raised concerns over Iraq's use of chemical weapons on it's own people? or the fate of the kidnapped children forced to fight for the war lords in the Mozambique?

I'll say it again :- Pathetic
127 Briton (#) Mar 24th, 2014 - 08:27 pm Report abuse
Time to properly investigate UK war crimes in Iraq

And the case has just collapsed , after 26 million rich corrupt lawyers , and greedy Iraqis, they accept the British soldier was honest in doing his/hers duty.

so another false claim rejected, just like the argies claim on the Falkland's, false , corrupt , and rejected..

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