Friday, April 4th 2014 - 03:05 UTC

US Falklands' policy 'disappointing' but, one of many issues of US/UK special relationship

The United States failure to recognize the right of the Falkland Islands to national self-determination is “disappointing”, reads a British House of Commons inquiry into the health of the so-called special relationship between the UK and the US. The report was released a day after the 32nd anniversary of the Argentine invasion of the South Atlantic islands (2 April 1982) and highlights London's frustration on the issue.

The report also emphasizes the 'spirit of realism' from British PM David Cameron foreign policy

 “We are disappointed that the US administration fails to give priority to the principle of self-determination in its position on sovereignty of the Falkland Islands,” says the 67-page report by the Foreign Affairs Committee in its chapter, Case study: the Falklands.

However the report also admits that in the spirit of realism, “we recognize that the United States' position in the Western hemisphere gives it particular interests there, and that the issue of the Falklands must take its place among the many other international questions on which the US and UK are engaged”.

Despite the fact that 99.8% of voters in the Falkland Islands chose to remain a British Overseas Territory in a referendum in March last year, the US continues to remain “neutral” in the dispute, in order not to upset its relations with Argentina.

Sir Nigel Sheinwald, Britain's ambassador to Washington until 2012, admitted to the committee that US position on the Falklands had been “uncomfortable...[and] not what we wanted”.

Critics of the Obama administration argue that the current US stance does not even amount to “neutrality” since it calls for talks between Britain and Argentina in defiance of the clearly-expressed will of the Falkland Islanders.

Luke Coffey, a former adviser to Liam Fox when he was Defense Secretary and now the Margaret Thatcher Fellow at the Heritage Foundation, a Conservative think-tank in Washington, said the US had clearly “abandoned its long held position of neutrality” in the dispute.

”Negotiations over the status of the Falkland Islands is the official Argentine position. Instead of keeping quiet (neutral), under Obama's leadership, the US has started backing Argentina's calls for talks. This is a change from previous administrations and a departure from neutrality,“ he said.

However, Paragraph 31 of the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee, ”Government foreign policy towards the United States“, Eighth Report of Session
2013, is more balanced.

”We are disappointed that the US Administration fails to give priority to the principle of self-determination in its position on sovereignty of the Falkland Islands. This is particularly so given the way in which the UK allows the US to use two other UK Overseas Territories, Ascension Island and Diego Garcia, for military basing. However, in the spirit of realism which we welcome in the Government, we recognize that the United States' position in the Western hemisphere gives it particular interests there, and that the issue of the Falklands must take its place among the many other international questions on which the US and UK are engaged“.

In other key areas the report was positive, praising the PM David Cameron Coalition government for taking a less supine position towards the US that during the Tony Blair years and supporting William Hague's formulation of the relationship as ”solid not slavish“.

It also found that the Commons vote against military intervention in Syria last year had not damaged the Special Relationship instead demonstrating the underlying depth and resilience of US-UK ties - a position not universally agreed upon in the Washington foreign policy community.

Meanwhile, Argentine President Cristina Fernandez claimed on Wednesday that the Falkland Islands serve as a nuclear base for the NATO alliance in the South Atlantic.

The Islands, she said, ”constitute a NATO military nuclear base in the South Atlantic - this is the truth that they can't continue to hide“. Further on she alleged the Falklands is ”among the most militarized areas in the world,” saying some 1,500 soldiers and 2,000 civilian military personnel are stationed there amid a population of just 1,000.

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1 Marcos Alejandro (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 03:20 am Report abuse
Special relationship? Seems like the yanks didn't forget..
2 paulcedron (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 03:29 am Report abuse
“...supporting William Hague's formulation of the relationship as ”solid not slavish“.”

ha. good one
3 Marcos Alejandro (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 03:35 am Report abuse
4 Monkeymagic (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 07:30 am Report abuse
yet, when push came to shove in 1982 which side did the US come down on??

I think we all know....and when push comes to shove again....the same would happen.

Poor argies...poor marcos
5 zathras (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 07:52 am Report abuse
How can she tell such lies with a straight face.

The Islands, she said, ”constitute a NATO military nuclear base in the South Atlantic - this is the truth that they can't continue to hide“. Further on she alleged the Falklands is ”among the most militarized areas in the world,” saying some 1,500 soldiers and 2,000 civilian military personnel are stationed there amid a population of just 1,000.

1,500 soldiers...WRONG
2,000 civilian military personnel...WRONG
population of just 1,000... WRONG
NATO military nuclear base...WRONG

3000 Civies and 1060 Military personnel is closer to the mark.

And is it any wonder there is a military base there.
Argentina invaded after all in 1982.
But of course that has nothing to do with the current Argentinian population.
Yet somehow every year you celebrate the invasion, this year going so far as to issue a new peso note.
Double standards by the Argentinian people.
The more Argentina shouts about the Falklands the more stupid they sound.
But wasn't it reported recently that Russia wanted to set up bases in South America.
Finally was it not Russia that sent nuclear armed warships to Venezuela and Cuba a few years back. I don't recall Argentina complaining about that.
6 golfcronie (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 08:49 am Report abuse
It does not matter a jot whether the USA is hypocritical or not. The FALKLANDS are governed by an elected Government and long may it continue to be so. SELF DETERMINATION has been exercised.
7 Frankdrebin (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 08:54 am Report abuse
Urgh! special relationship. I hate it when that term is used to describe US - UK relations.

Not intending to offend any of the US posters on here, America is not Britain's friend and never has been. Not wanting to go down the route of a history lesson but they bled the Brits white during both world wars, especially the second where we stood alone fighting for our lives. We basically paid for the industrialisation of the US and its our money that made them the power they are now. In the 40's, aside from fighting with Germany and Japan they were also at war with the British to destroy them as a world power, and they've been the same with us ever since.

I consider the Americans to be a necessary evil, as the saying goes you keep your friends close but your enemy's even closer. I don't have anything against Americans btw, the above is historical fact.
8 CaptainSilver (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 09:10 am Report abuse
Who cares, Britain stands on its own feet. America is becoming a declining power, something Britain did with great aplomb after fighting two wars with facist dictators who wanted to take over other countries.

In this world you have to stand up for what is right and face down bullies. No matter what anyone says Britain stands at the Falklanders shoulder. The Argentinians were beaten and humiliated in 1982. That is their problem. With respect to any Americans that dont support us, we dont care.
9 Islander1 (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 09:43 am Report abuse
Actually am not sure we have ever actually formally asked - and why should we anyway. The problem is between the FI-UK and Arg. Not a problem that concerns the rest of the world who have their own reasons for needing good relations with both UK and Arg so no need for them to actually formally piss one side or the other off by taking sides where there is no need to do so.
As said before- we all know where US would stand if there ever was a repeat invasion. Most sensible countries are neutral - even the S American ones are despite all the tripe that emits from Buenos Aires.
Falklands has good relations with Chile-Uruguay etc who all recognize and deal with the Falklands Government.
10 brucey-babe (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 10:07 am Report abuse
It's only Obummer that has a downer on the U.K. since his lying father accused us of doing him wrong during the war, (he could of only been 9 at the most) Never mind The Americans will be well shot of him at the next election.
11 Be serious (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 10:07 am Report abuse
Fair do's most Brits support Crimea's right to self determination which goes against US wishes.
12 Andy65 (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 10:26 am Report abuse
To my dear Argentine trolls,May I suggest you go away and familiarise yourself with the words and actions of LIP SERVICE and in deed even with a disappointing President like Obama when ever push comes to shove we all know where American loyalties with lie-HAVE A NICE DAY NOW
13 CabezaDura2 (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 10:42 am Report abuse
Even if the US recognizes the British historic argument and the righ of self determination, the UK would stand by as a typical in denial wife cheated and walked over by her own husband
14 DanyBerger (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 11:12 am Report abuse
Oh! poor Britons...

No support from USAMEX, no especial relationship, no wanted in SA, no wanted in Europe, no economy, no jobs, no money in short nothing to be proud off.

I’m understand now why in Europe Great Britain is called “Space Junk”...

Everyone knows that is going to fall, but none has any idea where or when...

Its not sad?
15 Vulcanbomber (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 11:30 am Report abuse
the argentines love to moan about the UK US relationship, the forget that they have a tenuous relationship with Merscur, which, correct me if I am wrong, were willing to enter into trade deals with the EU without Argentina as they are so corrupt.

Also, Argentine, in signing the deal to the EU accept the falklands, as it is a EU member as part of UK and therefore should leave the islanders alone.

And before anyone comments, if it was not part of the EU, why did the EU grant a £40 million development grant?
16 Andy65 (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 11:31 am Report abuse
@DanyBerger, Are you for foooooking real?? No jobs, No money No economy-The UK as one of the fastest growing economies in Europe unemployment is dropping month on month in reality your describing that shit hole Argentina aren't you???
17 CabezaDura2 (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 11:47 am Report abuse

Its not about that the US recognizes the islands or not, its about in the context it doesn't do so... Its about the Billions and billions of British aid spent in the Middle East proping up “aligned” gov'ts and regimes that lift up skyscrapers in Dubai and you end up expelled from these countries in the long term anyway while China walks in the backdoor, soldiers coming back in body bags, terrorist cells that are proping up in your own streets, random killings in your own streets after hering the calls of extremist clerics in your own cities that you cant get rid of, you are developing the Trident and Carriers that eclypse the Nimitz class just to keep up with the Americans little poodle status, because it doesnt even serve your interest.

You have to recognize that your time is over, your world policy is a total failure and you get nothing from it.

You talk about Argentina, but like it or not Argentina doesn't give anything to Brazil and Uruguay for free, and the Rosada so far has gotten away with everything they wanted from weak presidents like Mujica, Dilma and Lula
18 paulcedron (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 11:50 am Report abuse
“The UK as one of the fastest growing economies in Europe unemployment is dropping month on month...”

fastest growing economies? the u.k.?
sadly, it seems not.

“The Trussell Trust said 347,000 people used its foodbanks in December, compared with 26,000 a month five years ago.”
19 JollyGoodFun (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 11:52 am Report abuse
Ha ha - I think this is l smoke and mirrors. Our secret services operate as one pretty much, our armed forces integrate well because our populations get on well. I've met many Americans over the years, and I can honestly say they're a good bunch.

Obama has to say this for the dramatics. It's the ones who harp on about how they support each other and then never back it up with physical actions you want to be worried about.

Didn't Obama once give a speech about the Queen's illuminating reign as a sign of his recognition that she is the head of not only the commonwealth but many orders. Orders I'm sure you will find Obama and co are members.

Love the drama, but what the actions to gauge what's real or not.
20 Condorito (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 12:09 pm Report abuse
After criticising British hypocrisy vis-à-vis self-determination, will CFK now applaud American consistency?

@17 CD
A couple of points: Trident is a US missile; the new UK aircraft carriers will not eclipse the Nimitz class.
21 golfcronie (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 12:25 pm Report abuse
Yes you are correct, more and more people are using food banks. The main reason is , it is FREE, so more and more will be using it. Can you imagine if Argentina opened food banks in BA, every Tom ,Dick and Jose would be after FREE food. Not too hard to understand, you will always get some people wanting something for nothing.
22 CabezaDura2 (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 12:25 pm Report abuse

Yes but a US missile that will cost the Brits about 162 Billion GBP ...6,2 Billion GBP for the Carriers.
23 golfcronie (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 12:28 pm Report abuse
Think about it, if we cannot afford it we would not be purchasing them.
24 Andy65 (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 12:39 pm Report abuse

Inflation around1.7% compared to 30% in BOTOXQUEENLAND JAJAJA
25 CabezaDura2 (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 12:53 pm Report abuse

Do you need it?? What are you going to use it for??.... Think about it
26 Room101 (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 01:10 pm Report abuse
The interests of any country can supersede the basic principles of a Constitution; why not the United States. Expediency and political gamble with allies.
27 brucey-babe (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 01:14 pm Report abuse
23 CD

Si Vis Pacem Para Belum !
28 CabezaDura2 (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 01:30 pm Report abuse

Would that be an alien invasion?? You are putting all your money in conventional warfare, when most of the future conflicts seem to be about asymmetrical warfare, or at least the ones you would be fighting.
29 GFace (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 01:42 pm Report abuse
Sigh... . All this talk about a special relationship between the US and UK. Every foreign entanglement is “special” and rarely in a healthy way. The US and UK have a “special” relationship. There are funky ties between France and the UK and of course the EU. France speaking of whom as a “special” relationship with NATO, and NATO has a “special relationship” with everyone. Two words. Pacific. Rim. (oops this is a family web site) The Commonweath has its grinds and fights. And South America? Have you READ this website? The official anthem of state craft should be “I Got It From Agnes.”

As for the US/UK/FI stance, just typing what I had elsewhere:

US State Deptartment supports the “status quo”. You know, the one that leaves the Islanders rights protected by the UK as they want it and not violated by Argentina. the US does not call for “sovereignty” talks when your government lacks the guts to even sit across a table from the Islanders. The US doesn't call for a “shared” sovereingty where 6 months of the year it's a crime to get the math on inflation right and 6 months they can calculate away with impunity. In 1982 they explicitly voted in a UNSC resolution your “commemorated” Junta to GET OUT of the Islands. And to go easy on you (a mistake I think because you need an intervention on this perpetual national delusion) they don't even call for you to take your non-case to the ICJ: the ONLY people who can go over the Islanders heads as per the UN Charter and everyone knows who they'll side with (hint: it's not Buenos Aires). Visitors to the Falklalands are not even mildly reprimanded or cautioned by US authorities for entering “British Occupied Argentine East Prussia.” Status quo is diplospeak for “we're cool with this.”

Also the US Legislature is much more open in supporting the Falklanders so the three-ring circus of the US government system is not exactly calling to hand the Islanders over to the Argentines. They are good with what and WHO is there now.
30 golfcronie (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 01:49 pm Report abuse
It is a deterrent, to stop people usurping our island. If you have no defence then you are open to attack as was the FALKLANDS in 1982 Remember?
31 Conqueror (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 01:54 pm Report abuse
@10 It's a pity that you bring it down to personalities. Back in the 40s, FDR led the U.S. out of isolationism and into the fight for freedom. He didn't always feel that way. People, even presidents, can change. The U.K. doesn't always agree with the U.S. So we didn't go to Vietnam. We could probably have won it for them. But mostly for the South Koreans. The next time argieland attacks, we will see.
@11 “Fair do's most Brits support Crimea's right to self determination which goes against US wishes.” Really? I support Ukraine's right to “territorial integrity”. I support those who oppose Russia's military aggression. I support those who want to punish Putin. I think that if the Crimea wanted to join Russia, there should have been negotiations. Do the majority of those in Crimea want to leave Ukraine? Is Russia willing to take them? Why shouldn't they move instead of taking Ukraine territory? Why shouldn't those in Crimea who want to be Russian trek out and leave Ukraine its lebensraum? Why did Russia have covert troops in place? So NO, girly, MOST Brits don't feel that way. But then argies always like to claim that everyone agrees with them.
@13 Actually, the UK would stand alone. As always. And win. As always.
@14 Enough left to squash the life out of you!
@17 How you've changed your tune. Just remember, when Britain craps it will fall on you as well.
@18 In argieland, a vote can be bought for 50 pesos or a small box of groceries.
@22 Already have the missiles. Makes its own warheads. Five.....Four.....Three....
@25 YOU! Make no mistake. Around 30 million Brits see argieland as a test range. Where we can shoot, bomb and missile. There's nothing human there.
@28 How come you've forgotten annihilation? A swift warning for indigenous people to evacuate and then............
32 CabezaDura2 (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 02:24 pm Report abuse

Ok call me and point taken when Argentina has a full XXI Century operational battle group, a up to date anti submarine fleet and a 4th generation fighter on the carrier decks. Until then I dont see Argentina even thinking about the islands. That is even discounting the the QE class carriers that will come out in 2020. You guys have to get real. Seriously.

Likely those new Carriers are meant to be stationed in the Persian Gulf... Where else would they ?
33 CaptainSilver (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 03:31 pm Report abuse
Cabeza, its a very uncertain world even in these so called civilised days. Best to be prepared for any eventuality. And, one of our main industries is producing weapons, and it keeps people employed. I do agree that aircraft carriers are offensive weapons, but more often they are useful in deterring bad behavoir and humanitarian missions like the recent one in the Philipines. Your tone suggests that we are just willy waving and living past glories. There is no sense of that in Britain, the vast majority want nohing to do with any more wars. Warmongering words do occur on here but is in response to the idiotic stance of Timermans trolls. Most British people are not warmongers, its just that we have had a recent series of morons as Prime Ministers, and despite massive opposition we were dragged into conflicts that most people did not want despite the biggest street protests in British History. The last opportunity for warmongering got headed off in our parliament (Syria) and shamed the Americans into staying out of it too. There is a groundswell of opinion against aggression and war in Britain at the moment, people are looking forward to peace and progress. The only thing that would provoke action from our armed forces would be bullying action by others, like another attack on our Falkland Islands.

As for the pathetic ramblings of Dany and Marcos those visiting our food banks arent living in tin shacks and making their livings by picking up cardboard after dark. If they had ever visited our country they would know that.
34 A_Voice (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 03:39 pm Report abuse
......“the UK allows the US to use two other UK Overseas Territories, Ascension Island and Diego Garcia, for military basing.”

So grow some balls and kick them out.....
and the base in Bermuda....

Better still invade the Yanks from Canada...for the hell of it.....
on the 4th of July....
35 JollyGoodFun (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 04:19 pm Report abuse
@34 - our American friends proactively let Brits train and fight on their lands, as we do Americans, without fear of annexation. The special relationship is a politicians way of describing both nations are in fact very intertwined in past, present and future, militarily, economically, culturally, socially and politically.
36 Condorito (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 05:12 pm Report abuse
At the risk of ruining your fantasies of turning Argentina into a sheet of glass, you should be aware (and you probably are), that the UK has a 2nd strike capability. Launch protocols require there to have been a WMD attack made on the UK - something that won't be forthcoming from Argentina.

The UK requires their aircraft carriers for two reasons:
1) to remain relevant in NATO
2) protect their own interests independently

Abandoning a nuclear deterrent and conventional power (like carriers) just because recent conflicts have been partially asymmetric would be foolish.

I agree. Anyone thinking the UK “allows” the US to use Ascension Island and Diego Garcia is slightly naive.
37 LEPRecon (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 05:50 pm Report abuse
@33 CaptainSilver

Agreed. Only fools and profiteers want wars.

Yet to let down your defences is something that should be avoided too. Best to prepare for the worst, but hope for the best.

Prior to 1938 we let our defence down (after all we'd just fought the war to end all wars so why would we need weapons of defence?), only to have a war of aggression thrust upon us.

In 1982 we let down our defences again, and the Argentine Military Junta decided to invade the Falklands.

That is something that no one in Britain wants to happen again, so we'll keep the minimum amount of military there to defend the place against Argentina's colonial ambitions.

As for the US position regarding the Falklands, there are a lot of US citizens, including Congressmen and Senators, who aren't happy with the current administration.

Prior to the Falklands referendum, a US reporter asked a representative from the White House about whether the US government would support the Falkland Islanders if they voted to remain as they are. How that White House official danced around like a flea on a griddle, especially when the reporter pressed her further, with the whole self-determination, democracy, and mainly about how the UK was the US's main ally, and were currently fighting and dying besides US troops in Afghanistan. He further mentioned that the UK was the ONLY European country in NATO to immediately and unwaveringly offer support to the US after 9/11. She danced about some more and then made some lame comments about neutrality.

One day though, the American people themselves will get fed up of this current administration, and others will push for siding with the Falkland Islanders, seeing as the US likes to pride itself on being all about freedom and democracy.

But time will tell, I suppose.
38 Briton (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 07:31 pm Report abuse
just an opinion.

We will never truly know the extent of exchange between the brits and the yanks,
But from my point of view, I find our governments over reliance of the Americans a bit troublesome,

I also think that our politician are hiding things from us, and hiding behind the Americans,

We British, rightly or wrongly should be able to stand on our own two feet, against anyone who threatens our country,
We should also be able to extend our power [even for a limited time] to overseas problems, if required,
And we should also be in a position to aid or help our allies when required.

Any other help we receive from our allies, when WE require it, should be extras, back up,
And support,

Now if we can fully do that, then that’s ok, but in many areas we do not have the facilities , Equipment , technology , or this , back up, without relying on others,

Yes we are a powerful country in part, but our politicians have a lot to answer for,
And what has this to do with the American non support over the Falklands,
In 1982, they said and stated to the world of military, that we could not do it alone,
And we did, proving when the chips are down; we can and will defend what is ours, with or without support from our so called friends,
2014, the politicians say we can do it again, ??Can we..
[ 37 LEPRecon
Very good points
39 reality check (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 07:45 pm Report abuse
I once holidayed in Devon near Slapton Sands, naturally visited the place.
Slapton was the scene of a disastrous rehersal for the D Day Landings. German E Boats happened upon them torpedoed five LCT's. Seven hundred young Americans died that night.

In the village his a tea shop, during the war the Yanks were billeted there. They carved their names and where they were from in the putty and word work around the windows.

I was struck by how similiar the names of them were to ours, Italian and East European names were there too. I could not help wondering how many of them made it back home and did any of them die that night.

Special relationship? you could call it that.
40 CabezaDura2 (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 07:48 pm Report abuse
Thats very theoretical, it would apply urgently to a country like Argentina that hasn't even got enough bullet rounds for two hours. The borders are not even protected since all the border patrol has being sent to control the streets of the interior of the country, ships sink at port and fighters drop dead from the sky... You guys are a island and have a continent of 500 million people as a buffer with Russia.

What interests?? And what are you going to do about them if they are threatened ?? Look at it this way; Spain could have sent Principe de Asturias to the River Plate and demand a full compensation or re instatement of YPF to Repsol in 2012 before the carrier was decomissioned. It didn't do so because not only its illegal, expensive its also politically incorrect. Only Putin can do that and make it look cool.
And it would ended up compromissing Spanish assets and interests in the entire region.
There was nothing that the Spanish could have done after the wave of nationalizations in Latam

You would be in the exact same situation.

There might be a war in the Middle east eventually and no more oil will flow, setting the prices at ridiculous high and forcing the world into recession. But the important thing you are forgetting is that many countries in the world would do too. And there is nothing they can do about it. Many countries are energy dependent from abroad. Even Argentina is nowdays. You are putting too money and effort in stabilizing the Middle East, too much of a world service and for free and get all the hardships, terror attacks, political costs is no good deal. Take it as my advice.

You cant afford to play this game any longer
41 reality check (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 08:00 pm Report abuse
Another amusinf anecdote.

I was once in a pub near RAF Sculthorpe, then a USAF base in Norfolk/

Every couple of years the Air National Guard held Nato Reinforcement Excercise, Operation Flintlock, at the base.

Three Yanks came into the pub and stood at the bar. Sitting on a table were an elderly couple, she the housekeeper, he the butler at a local big house, no names, someone one here may have knpwn them.

She said, to them, “You will be Yanks then?”
A polite young guardsman replied, “Yes Ma'm.”
She then said, “My word but your an ansome bugger.”
Same young lad replied, “Why thank you Ma'm.”

I swear by on the lives of everyone I have ever loved. she then said to him, “Spect I slept with your grandfather!” Poor lad nearly choked on his beer.

Now that's what I call a special relationship!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For anyone who knows the area, the pub was The Rampant Horse, in Fakenham.
42 GFace (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 08:46 pm Report abuse
@41, And who in any special relationship could resist a Rampant Horse!
43 reality check (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 08:55 pm Report abuse
44 CaptainSilver (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 09:24 pm Report abuse
#40 Cabeza, thanks for your concern but we are managing nicely. It will take more than a few grizzly terror attacks to deflect Britain. We dont run away. Unfortunately GW stuck a stick in a hornets nest. If he had listened to our Camel Corps (the old diplomats that knew the middle east backwards), he would have left well alone. But, we had Bliar in charge and no-one understood how far the moronic criminally inept fool would go to be an American poodle. Thus we joined in the redneck revenge for 9/11 which we all knew was against thw wrong target. The Americans had no knowledge of the arabs and dont seem to have learned hardly anything since. Now, the genie is out of the bottle and we have to live with the consequences. But we are well versed in intelligence and counter terrorism through our experiences in Northern Ireland. Yet another piece of expertise we can sell abroad.
45 Rich_Martin (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 10:21 pm Report abuse
46 Anglotino (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 10:33 pm Report abuse
It does make me laugh to see so many comments on here about the UK's growing irrelevance and decline in power without any ability to back them up.

Name any important global forum and the UK will be there.
While not a super power, it is one of a handful of global powers.
Its military is more powerful than all but a few countries.
Its economy is one of the ten largest and will not leave this category for decades if at all.
And while countries such as South Korea, Turkey, Mexico, Germany, Russia, China, Japan and Brazil deal with population decline, the UK will still have a growing population.

Talk is cheap and wishful thinking about the UK's absolute decline is even cheaper. But still funny to read.
47 reality check (#) Apr 04th, 2014 - 10:56 pm Report abuse
As a Brit I for one do not give a fig about my countries apparent growing irrelevance around the world.

I do however care about the future of the Falkland Islanders.

I take solace in the fact, that at no time since the end of the second world war have we possessed a more deadlier, more experienced, more highly trained and highly motivated military capability.
48 LEPRecon (#) Apr 05th, 2014 - 09:13 am Report abuse
@47 RC


However, what I find most amusing is the Argentine trolls yelling about Britain's decline (UK is finished..blah...blah...blah), yet despite our being 'finished' they are still afraid of just over 1,000 military personnel and 4 fighter aircraft!

Of course they do remember 1982. 2 April was a close run thing. The Royal Marines put up huge resistance - only 80 of them too.

Imagine the resistance 1,000 military personnel would put up! I think if Argentina tried to invade again, they'd end up surrendering by the end of the day.

However, what most of our Argentine posters don't want to admit is the fact that the UK is 1 of only 3 countries that can project it's military capability well beyond it's own borders. The other 2 are the USA and France.

Russia used to have that ability, but it's navy has declined quite significantly over the years, although their army is still quite big and has some good equipment. It's airforce has some good fighter aircraft and bombers, but transport aircraft are generally good too. So why can't they project themselves as the USA, UK or France can?

It's because it lacks the allies it requires. Flying personnel and equipment through other countries airspace requires a lot of diplomacy (and no small amount of money). Most of the Russian allies tend to be dictatorships (that should tell us something of Russian mentality), and don't like the thought of foreigners (even allies) flying over their airspace. It's a matter of trust. They ally themselves with the Russians (for whatever reason) but they don't trust the Russians.

China would have a similar problem, except that China has never really shown any desire to project itself militarily beyond what it sees as it's own sphere of influence. However, defence experts believe that China's attempts to build aircraft carriers (they stole plans off Russia who weren't happy) was an attempt to spread their influence further. Fortunately they didn't have the expertise to build them.
49 ChrisR (#) Apr 05th, 2014 - 11:40 am
Comment removed by the editor.
50 CabezaDura2 (#) Apr 05th, 2014 - 01:43 pm Report abuse
So why dont Brazil, Russia, India, Germany, Italy or China dont have the ability to project power far beyond their shere of influence....


I'll give you guys a clue...Because it costs money and they dont need to do so ????
51 ChrisR (#) Apr 05th, 2014 - 04:53 pm Report abuse
@ 50 CabezaDura2

So when and why the “2”?

But instead of a “clue”, what about sensible reasons:

Brazil can’t do a thing except local “warfare” in SA. I know this is like two drunken scouse tarts at Aintree hitting each other with handbags, but in reality WGAF?

Russia: read and understand @ 48 LEPRecon above.

India: shit scared of Pakistan, they are not bothered about anything else other than insurrection within India due mainly to political corruption.

Germany: quite rightly has extreme limits on waht they will allow their military to get involved with after WW2.

Italy: pissed and broke and the navy at Naples have gorgeous uniforms but never see action.

China: No navy of any merit, just staring to learn about aircraft carriers, cannot even manufacture their own jet engines (in common with The Dark Country). Another bunch of commie bastards pretending to be commercially minded until Tiananmen square crops up again.
52 Liberato (#) Apr 05th, 2014 - 05:05 pm Report abuse
Quote: “We are disappointed that the US Administration fails to give priority to the principle of self-determination in its position on sovereignty of the Falkland Islands. This is particularly so given the way in which the UK allows the US to use two other UK Overseas Territories, Ascension Island and Diego Garcia, for military basing”

So its not that the british consider the US should turn its opinion towards self-determination in a legal basis or becouse the british consider the law is not their side, but becouse they use other british colonies as military bases.
Its like saying, we helped you in wars, we let you have military bases in our colonies so you should be on our side of the dispute.
Pretty arrogant, pretty empty of sovereignty rights. As always the british giving the hit in arrogance.
53 Briton (#) Apr 05th, 2014 - 07:21 pm Report abuse
52 Liberato
tis not what they say,
but how one interprets it,
The USA may not 100/% back us,
but the Falkland's are the very least of Americas problems,
and she has much bigger fish to worry abt,

the only time you argies should read anything other ?
is when the Americans send the 1st//2nd//and 3rd fleets to defend CFKs interest and kick us of,

and to be totally honest with you guys, if you ever, ever think that would happen, then believe me when I tell you, our allies from the planet orian, and our space corps would destroy them.........

don't read to much of a badly written comic..
54 CabezaDura2 (#) Apr 05th, 2014 - 08:13 pm Report abuse

You are so wrong and have so little understanding about strategy and geo-politics that I dont know where to start from.

Only true powers that know what they want, where they are going and for what they are arming for will go into such a extend of militarization over its GDP. You are simply arming to feel good about yourselves and feel like Daddy's little poodle.
I hope you live long enough to see why you are wrong.
55 LEPRecon (#) Apr 05th, 2014 - 08:26 pm Report abuse
@54 CD2

Actually ChrisR has got a pretty good handle about strategy and geo-politics.

Here we go again with you unable and unwilling to entertain any view that isn't in line with your view.

I'm beginning to get to know what kind of person you are. You cannot imagine why someone would have all that military power and hardware and not use it, constantly, so weaker people and countries would stand in awe and fear of you.

On another thread you basically said that the UK had the biggest gun but didn't know how to use it. I responded that the UK knows how to use the biggest gun, but they chose not to.

It appears to be an alien concept to you. For someone to have power but not constantly show off that power to all and sundry.

It is you that doesn't understand about diplomacy, international politics, international law and you certainly have NO IDEA about strategy and tactics.

You only believe that you understand why countries act the way they do, but you really have no idea, you just try to fit how they act into the way you believe they should act.

Your knowledge of geo-politics is so flawed and so biased by your obvious hatred for the US and UK. You don't look at things independently. You want everything to fit into your world view.

And when it doesn't, you ignore it. And when someone contradicts you, you tell them they are wrong (your arrogance is astounding), and then if that doesn't work you'll resort to insults.

Must be an Argentine trait. If people won't agree with you, insult them.
56 CabezaDura2 (#) Apr 05th, 2014 - 08:32 pm Report abuse
Right.... I have already dealt with you and you chickened out on the other thread. Remember?? So Don't come along to me now with your silly excusses, victimization and your own flawed opinions, its you that cant stand nor tolerate what Im saying nor my view, not my problem do you know . I did not insult ChrisR...

And I rest my case
57 ChrisR (#) Apr 05th, 2014 - 08:49 pm Report abuse
@ 54 & CabezaDura2
“ I did not insult ChrisR... “

Well, to be frank it felt like an insult because you ignored my comments completely, starting with the first question:
“So when and why the “2”?”

Taking China. You do agree, surely, that:
“China: No navy of any merit, just starting to learn about aircraft carriers, cannot even manufacture their own jet engines (in common with The Dark Country who are desperate to do so).”
58 CabezaDura2 (#) Apr 05th, 2014 - 09:02 pm Report abuse

No I dont agree AT ALL with the that nor anything else you and Lep say to say the least... I agree with proper strategic expert like Robert Kaplan.

You need to read and learn far more, idependent mind not affected by chauvinism not just come along with me with wishful thinking and delusions of long gone past grandeur
59 LEPRecon (#) Apr 05th, 2014 - 09:32 pm Report abuse
@56 CD

No I didn't chicken out, I left that thread because you were becoming more and more unstable, your constant insults just made you appear childish, and it is apparent that your entire knowledge of the UK comes from reading the Daily Mail - a paper that is so right wing it should have a swastika in the heading!

You got angrier and angrier because I didn't agree with you. You 1st said that the French didn't need anyone's help in Mali, then I pointed out that they were getting British help in Mali, and then you said that they didn't need the help of the British because they were getting help from the African Union! And you completely contradicted yourself.

At one point I thought that you were going to have a coronary. Your typing, spelling and grammar became worse, and your insults came thick and fast.

So I left. I never went back onto that thread, not even to read, your no doubt gloating, next post. You have very low self-esteem, and because of that you feel that the only way you can feel good about yourself is for everyone to agree with you.

Then, as I said earlier, when they don't you get angry, you tell them they are wrong for not agreeing with you 100%, and if that doesn't work you resort to insults.

You need to grow up and accept that not everyone will see the world the way you do. You need to grow up and learn that adults can agree to disagree on issues that are, basically, subjective.

As for you accusing others of being affected by chauvinism, when with practically every post you spew forth your bile at the US and UK, showing how your own prejudices have affected your views.

There is no such thing as a totally independent person. Everyone has some sort of bias, but they also have knowledge and experience to back it up to.

You refuse to admit your biased, and your knowledge of the world appears to be limited to those publications that support YOUR theories. You're experience of the world appears none existent, you're not independent minded at all.
60 CabezaDura2 (#) Apr 05th, 2014 - 09:54 pm Report abuse

LOL You chickened out completaly you dont fool me!!
Of course I get fed up with people who lie and distort as you are know doing AGAIN...LIARecon

“You got angrier and angrier because I didn't agree with you. You 1st said that the French didn't need anyone's help in Mali, then I pointed out that they were getting British help in Mali, and then you said that they didn't need the help of the British because they were getting help from the African Union! And you completely contradicted yourself.”

That is a complete LIE of the actual conversations. Just as I know that you read my last post.

Your entire comment is aimed at me and not discussing the issues. You are a lie and a contradiction after another. You preffeer to victimize and claim my supposed authoritarianism (When you are the real one here)

The Daily Mail is the same tabloid you have sourced links. LOL!!

Anyway you are retarded and dull, You remind me of Stevie a lot.
You are obviously still but hurt about your retractation that France was dependent on the UK to be in Mali.. And In your own link to support this it said Britain only helped with “one or two C-17” and a Merchant ferry... LOL, FAIL

You cant stand what I think of your paper tiger country... You cant accept that I say that France is independent and succesful where it goes and what it is doing... You cant accept that I say the UK is a poodle dog of the US.

And for all these things I have presented hard facts evidence, post, opinions of life long journalists on the matter like Max Hastings. You have NEVER answered any single, NO I mean not one reason or benefit the UK has got out of this “special relation” with the US.

You are an idiot.... But Dont worry about my health Im having a cup of coffe and a croissant covered with Dulce de Leche as Im posting you.

Learn how to debate, be honest and stick to the argument next time you come along to talk to me.
61 Anbar (#) Apr 05th, 2014 - 10:07 pm Report abuse
“”“”Better still invade the Yanks from Canada...for the hell of it.....
on the 4th of July....“”“”

No need, we invaded them culturally years ago and more recently wave III via Hollywood.

Its far less hassle than economic blockades or trying to persuade the UN to “force” people into things they dont want - just convince them they do want it.

It amazes me that Argentina ahs proven incapable of convincing 3000 people that their way isnt better than the UKs way when there is, supposedly, so much going for Argentina and so little for the UK.

Crikey, beaches, babes, weather, football.... and you cant convince a measly 3000 people to sign up?

Sure sign that something is horribly awry....
62 CabezaDura2 (#) Apr 05th, 2014 - 10:15 pm Report abuse

No, No, No you see we preffer uneducated peruvians, paraguayans and bolivians. Especially when they came with 8 kids and one extra inside of their belly. We are so open and friendly to them they can take any public land they want and set up their dope selling kiosks. If they go into jail they have a door open to leave at the moment they come in...They can double the slums in x2 size and charge rent for their shacks too...
Its all fine with them but we will not even allow the islanders to fish and live peacefully if we had the power to do so of course....
63 Rich_Martin (#) Apr 05th, 2014 - 10:22 pm Report abuse
PIRATES GO HOME !!!!!!!!!!!!
END OF COLONY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2014 !!!
64 Vulcanbomber (#) Apr 05th, 2014 - 11:06 pm Report abuse
its been a while since we have seen this gem
65 LEPRecon (#) Apr 06th, 2014 - 08:26 am Report abuse
@59 - CD

I thought you'd come back with something like this.

Of course people are free to go onto that thread and read the comments for themselves, and make their own minds up.

Unlike you I don't try to represent my opinions as facts. I don't try to force my pseudo facts down people's throats, and I don't throw a hissy fit when people don't agree with me.

It is you that is misrepresenting the what was discussed, so if anyone is bothered (which to be honest why would they?), we talked about it on this thread:

By the way calling someone a liar when all they've done is disagree with your point of view is infantile.

I haven't lied.

As for Max Hastings - he is a columnist for the Daily Mail - a paper so far to the right it should have a swastika in its headline.

Not one of his points were anything BUT his opinion. So there is no need to answer them. It was bad enough having to wade through his bile.

Oh, and you did get angrier and angrier, hence why you started insulting me.

Calm and clear thinking people don't usually insult people.

Never mind, one day you'll grow up and then you'll realise that reasoned debate doesn't have to have an actual conclusion. Agree to disagree. That's what grown up people do.

I don't care what you think of the UK, you have the right to think what you like, just like I have the right to think what I like. Your problem is that you, like your hero Max Hastings, put forth your opinions as facts. Well they aren't facts, they are opinions. You have the right to your opinions, but it is you that cannot stand the fact that everyone doesn't agree with what you post.

Then you get angry. Then you get rude.

The proof of that is on the thread of our previous debate.
66 CabezaDura2 (#) Apr 06th, 2014 - 11:50 am Report abuse
It’s useless. You are just running around in circles LIARecon and avoiding all the matters…
Max Hastings is not my hero, but I respect the man that has made his career since he landed in San Carlos to this day past Kuwait, Iraq 1998, Kosovo the Iraq invasion 2003, Afghanistan 2001, Helmand 2006.
I can’t simply dismiss how to extract blood do an enema as simply “your opinion”. You are an expert and have being doing so your entire life.
Now you dismiss not only his opinion as just that (not addressing any of the actual facts and points he raises) but now you have it against the Daily Mail.

The problem is there is a BBC documentary in which he is saying the same thing basically. Now you wouldn’t say the BBC is right wing would you?? From his very British point of view yes, but it’s still valid none the less. From 41:10 he says everything on that is relevant to the matter.

You keep on making you responses about me or the way I behave, giving “Daddy talks” to divert from what I’m actually saying. Rest assured if I say you are an idiot or any other insult, its not because I have run out of arguments, trying to impose my view on yours or anything else, I simply believe you are an idiot.
67 LEPRecon (#) Apr 06th, 2014 - 12:57 pm Report abuse
@66 CD

Again back with the insults. Thank you for proving my point.

It must be very frustrating for you to not have everyone fall over themselves to agree with you.
68 CabezaDura2 (#) Apr 06th, 2014 - 01:13 pm Report abuse

More victimization....yawn
I dont care... Buy yourself a brain
69 LEPRecon (#) Apr 06th, 2014 - 01:37 pm Report abuse
@68 CD2

You see you are missing the point. The point is your intolerant attitude towards others who don't agree with you.

In short, you are trying to bully people into accepting your opinions as fact. When they don't agree with you, you at 1st try to put your point across in a sensible manner, and when they still don't agree, you try to intimidate them.

Your problem is that it is difficult to intimidate people over the internet. So all you have left is name calling. It makes you look very immature.

You come across as a bully. You want to have power over others, and you cannot understand why those people who do have power, don't constantly assert that power and abuse it.

Maybe that line of thinking is a product of your upbringing. I mean in Argentina those with power quite often assert it overtly and abuse it. Maybe you think that is the norm everywhere.

p.s. you do care, hence why you cannot let go and MUST try to have the last word, because in that way you can somehow convince yourself that you've won.
70 DanyBerger (#) Apr 06th, 2014 - 01:48 pm Report abuse
Excuse me please but I have more bad news from the Dark Kingdom...

“David Cameron's religious adviser is descended from founders of the 'terrorist' Muslim Brotherhood

PM facing embarrassment over links between adviser and Islamist group”

can anyone be so stupid?
71 CabezaDura2 (#) Apr 06th, 2014 - 01:55 pm Report abuse
Ohh so you want to have the last word? Is this is what it is about?? Be my guest then, I won’t reply please if that makes you believe otherwise.

“Maybe that line of thinking is a product of your upbringing. I mean in Argentina those with power quite often assert it overtly and abuse it. Maybe you think that is the norm everywhere”
I have explained my position ad naseum, and you still fail to understand it or pretend to do so and no it hasn't got anything to do with me country of origin,

Again 100% of your comments are about me, not the issue in itself. Its all generic nonsense. Other than that what else have you being able to offer so far..?? Nothing
72 LEPRecon (#) Apr 06th, 2014 - 02:07 pm Report abuse
@71 CD2

I don't want or need to have the last word.

Yes my comments have been about you.

You have explained your position regarding a subject repeatedly, but you just repeat the same points over and over. If I didn't agree with you the 1st time, why would you believe that a) repeating it would change my mind, b) insulting me would get me to change my mind?

As for the subject of the thread I covered my points about this at post 48. Then I commented upon your rudeness to ChrisR in post 55.

You got upset with my comments, and like a child resorted to insults.

We are all a product of our country of origin, shaped by it and it's culture, to deny that is to deny yourself.

That is how we got here.

It's annoying when people don't stick to the subject of the thread, isn't it? Something I mentioned to you repeatedly on another thread, when you went off on one of your little tangents. But it's okay when you do it, but not when others do it.

Anyway, I won't bother you anymore. I'll stick to the thread, unless you come over all childish again and start insulting people.
73 CabezaDura2 (#) Apr 06th, 2014 - 02:25 pm Report abuse
I will give you some advice.
When you have a debate you have to have a point and a line of argument you have DEFAULTED your line of argument and abandoned it for over the last threads.

When you resort to moving and mudding the ground of it I do often over explain myself in order to keep an argumentative line. I do so because my point is not understood or at least its being blurred deliberately.

That you believe and understand that I think or I stand by the concept that powers need to abuse military power to its weaker peers is a complete failure of you to grasp what I have being trying to say so far... And why does this happen??
Because you are DISHONEST.
1) When you victimize
2) When you Ignore the line of Argumentation
3) When you indulge in talking about me extensively
4) When keep on with random generic nonsense
5) And lie outrageously in a clear contradiction of a few posts earlier

This is what happens when you don’t think, don’t analyze, nor accept what the other guy is saying. I have analyzed at first your point of view, I have put forward legitimate questions and points and you have ever since refused to answer.
74 Anbar (#) Apr 06th, 2014 - 06:04 pm Report abuse
ah dont ya just love the internet, if ya cant make a sound argument at least blame somebody else for doing the same - that way you can at least FEEL as though you've achieved something other than make yourself look an idiot.

“”“can anyone be so stupid?”“”

as...? You maybe?

Is the point of the article to highlight that people have kids and grand-kids, or is it suggesting that every child and grandchild holds identical beliefs to their predecessors?

Or are you suggesting that having somebody who knows something about the religion is in some way “bad” as an adviser, should he perhaps take on a far right KKK adviser to discuss Muslim issue with him or her?

You really are a berk DanyBerger... only out-berked by the likes of the Daily Mail mind you....(which is saying something).

Cameron has an excellent track record of picking nobody but the very best advisers in any case... ¬_¬
75 Briton (#) Apr 06th, 2014 - 07:02 pm Report abuse
Come on Guys,
he Insults are unnecessary and not helpful..
76 Rich_Martin (#) Apr 06th, 2014 - 11:02 pm Report abuse
PIRATES GO HOME !!!!!!!!!!!!
END OF COLONY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2014 !!
77 DanyBerger (#) Apr 07th, 2014 - 03:56 am Report abuse

I guess you are not convinced yet...

“Aide to UK's David Cameron arrested by police investigating possible child porn offenses”

Ok! You don’t like the Daily Mail because according with your is so right-wing orientated.

Of course you will argue the same about Fox

Here you have something more lefty...

Now what are you gonna say?

That you don’t like lefty either?

Can you see why in Europe Britain is being calling “Space Junk”?
78 Hepatia (#) Apr 09th, 2014 - 03:11 pm Report abuse But of course! The destruction of the European empires, most particularly the British and French Empires, had been the policy of the US since the 19th century. The failure to achieve this as a consequence of WWI, and the incompetence of the British and the French, was part of the cause of the hatred directed towards Europe by Americans following that war. And the destruction of the British Empire was the key aim of the Atlantic Charter.

The “special relationship” was invented in the US as a vehicle to explain to the US population why we were fighting on the side of our former rivals. It was extended after WWII to serve the needs of the cold war. But the USSR is now defunct. As a result of this and the Pivot to Asia the US will be reverting to a policy towards Europe which will be closer to its traditional position than has been the case in the last 75 years.

None of this is helpful to the British desire to maintain their colony in the Malvinas and they can be expected to return the islands to Argentina within the next 25 years.

Incidentally, I have been hearing that the UK is talking of executing its very own “pivot to Asia” - presumably so as not to be left out in the cold by the US. Apparently they are talking about occupying military bases there and so on. This is generating a certain amount of mirth in diplomatic circles. I find it sad myself. How can the British have such a clouded view of themselves so as to believe that they have any relevance at all.
79 Clyde15 (#) Apr 11th, 2014 - 11:57 am Report abuse
You heard it here...straight from the horse's arse.
Someone close to diplomatic circles has briefed her off -record so it must be true. I see the movable 25 years is surfacing again. Will it be the same in 2015, 2016 ?
Are you actually Alicia talk about as much sense !

Overseas military bases ? Where did you hear this fairy tale. The only one I have heard about is a facility in Australia for the R.N.
As one of our oldest and trusted allies. is this surprising ?

As someone who obviously has an inherent dislike of the British, why bother posting here ?
80 Shana (#) Apr 13th, 2014 - 12:10 pm Report abuse
This is terrible, as I am, admittedly, a-shocked-and-saddened-to-read-all-this, American. There is a level of blame, as we know, to be placed upon Obama in not respecting a long and treasured (at least in the American heart) relationship between our nations. He has been horrifying us with these antics for years. And perhaps it is too late to remind you that, through it all, the closest he came to getting “smacked” by the American people was over his disrespect of Britain. I'm sorry for this fellow's poor taste in this regard, but he is who he is and he'll be gone in two years.

But from what I'm hearing here, the issues between us are larger. I don't disagree with your reasons or logic, but hope to work it out someday. A lot of us really love England, but as it stands, I would not feel comfortable even visiting there, now. It would feel too much like making a fool out of “friendship” in the presence of something or someone that is, actually, more like a nasty stranger. I'm sorry that you feel the way you do and it's all together apparent that this “love affair” has been more in the American heart than Britain. I hope one day, we can pick whatever it was we thought we had back up and have something that does not draw up unsettled issues and deeply buried hatred.

Till then, God be with you. I, humbly, will leave England out of any places that I'd feel welcome to visit. This is just sad.
81 Clyde15 (#) Apr 13th, 2014 - 03:39 pm Report abuse
In that case try Scotland or Ireland !

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