Saturday, August 23rd 2014 - 07:28 UTC

Argentina: “Cristina, share your fortune with the many impoverished in recent years”

A former cabinet minister of ex-president Nestor Kirchner said he wished that the current head of state, Cristina Fernandez would donate part of her considerable fortune so as to help all those people that have suffered impoverishment in recent years.

Jose Nun was Culture minister with president Nestor Kirchner and is a much respected intellectual and academic in Argentina

 “I am hopeful that the President, at least, in her last year in office donates part of her personal fortune among all those people that have been impoverished in recent years”, said Jose Nun who was Minister of Culture with President Kirchner but who has since taken distance from Cristina Fernandez.

Nun who is a respected intellectual in Argentina, established a difference between the political and economic course of the current administration and established a clear contrast from how Argentina was managed under Nestor Kirchner.

“He looked after the cash register numbers every day and also some other basic indicators and this is not the case now”.

However “I don't think the mandate of Cristina is going to come to an abrupt catastrophic end because Argentine is quite solid and the government is doing its utmost to keep jobs and income of the poorest, but this is becoming increasingly complicated since every day she must increase spending, threatening the treasury”.

And at the end of the day, “when she leaves we are going to have a very weakened vulnerable country and with a huge pack of bills to be addressed by the next administration”.

But Nun also pointed to the fortune amassed in these eleven years by the presidential couple and the lack of “philanthropic foundations”.

”Nobody doubts that be it by right or left (legally or illegally) the President has made a considerable fortune, even as a woman and a mother, but I don't know of a single philanthropy from her. The Uruguayan president (Jose Mujica) donates his salary because he says he can live comfortably with what his wife makes as a senator. Evita Peron started the “Evita Foundation” that helped transform Argentine politics, but there's nothing of that from Cristina”.

According to data made public in the Buenos Aires media regarding the president's declared assets, they totaled 48.2 million pesos and in one year increased 20%, which Cristina Fernandez justified with the valorization of her hotels in Santa Cruz province.

However a year earlier, 2011, in her sworn statement she had declared 40.1 million Pesos, which a year later climbed to over 48.2 million Pesos.

144 comments Feed

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1 Monkeymagic (#) Aug 23rd, 2014 - 08:05 am Report abuse
And pigs might fly....
2 Vulcanbomber (#) Aug 23rd, 2014 - 09:04 am Report abuse
and to think thats whats she's delared, so will not include everything that has been hidden in the Seychelles
3 scarfo (#) Aug 23rd, 2014 - 09:18 am Report abuse
And at the end of the day, “when she leaves we are going to have a very weakened vulnerable country and with a huge pack of bills to be addressed by the next administration”.

The CFK legacy!
4 Anglotino (#) Aug 23rd, 2014 - 09:30 am Report abuse
Perhaps a future government will “help” to share her fortune.

They could take her fortune and issue her with a bond. Then they could their intention to negotiate payment of only 30% of that bond.

If she complains then they can just call her names and drag her through the courts and even then if she wins, they can tell her they still refuse to see the issue.
5 Voice (#) Aug 23rd, 2014 - 10:09 am Report abuse
It's not really what you would call a fortune by todays standards...
3 million quid is not rich nowadays to have a million quid house is fairly common....
...besides the rich giving to the poor is always a temporary affair... as it's very soon back into the hands of the rich.....that's how economies work....
6 Conqueror (#) Aug 23rd, 2014 - 10:23 am Report abuse
I thought there was the Kirchner Foundation. Dedicated to providing extra funds for Presidents and ex-Presidents.

Always worth reading

If you take a 10% skim of all a country's income for 11 years, how much have you got?
7 Klingon (#) Aug 23rd, 2014 - 11:06 am Report abuse
And this guy didn't see Nestor's graft while he was in office?
Just more people distancing themselves from whats coming.
8 ChrisR (#) Aug 23rd, 2014 - 11:16 am Report abuse
This guy must have a death wish.
9 lornefirth (#) Aug 23rd, 2014 - 11:49 am Report abuse
CFK face lifts dont come cheap,and for a hacket old bird like her,your talking big bucks,Sorry no more bucks ,the cons been found out........
10 Cognitio (#) Aug 23rd, 2014 - 12:53 pm Report abuse
I'm not all that familiar with Argentinian politics. What's the chances of the opposition taking power and a thorough investigation being made of the Kirchner years? It would be nice to see the truth come out and TMBOA face a trial for corruption and abuse of power. Or does the nature of Argentinian politics prevent such an outcome?
11 GLADIUS1965 (#) Aug 23rd, 2014 - 01:36 pm Report abuse
Jajajajajajajajajajajajajaja..... The best joke I´ve ever heard.... Remember: Matthew 19,24: “Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle,...”
12 chronic (#) Aug 23rd, 2014 - 02:32 pm Report abuse
Mutually exclusive terms: “a respected intellectual in Argentina”

For those without experience with the territory/people: a non halfwit, who possesses at least the tiniest shred of integrity

Much could be said about this article but since a fool will beleive what he will and a dog returns to his vomit - it is enough to see it for what it is.
13 Editor56619 (#) Aug 23rd, 2014 - 02:41 pm Report abuse
What about the two Park Avenue (New York City) apartments? (Valued around US$10 MILLION ... in Pesos Argentina? Do the math!
14 rule_britannia (#) Aug 23rd, 2014 - 04:05 pm Report abuse
Enjoy this award winning documentary about the K money trail - with English subtitles:
15 ChrisR (#) Aug 23rd, 2014 - 05:01 pm Report abuse
Lanata tells a good story: watch out Cristina, you have Singer AND Lanata after you now!
16 MagnusMaster (#) Aug 23rd, 2014 - 05:19 pm Report abuse
@10 Virtually everyone who has a chance at Presidency in Argentina has either been involved with Kirchner or can be bought by them. Massa was definitely involved since it was him was who hired Boudou in the first place and was Chief of Staff under CFK so if he gets elected (very likely) he will do his best to bury everything. Scioli was also allied with the Ks, he may not have been involved but he definetely knew and turned the blind eye. Macri can be bought or threathened, IF he gets elected (that's a big if) he may put CFK in jail for a couple of years, but not enough for her to rot in jail.
No matter what happens, without American intervention the money CFK stole can't be possibly be recovered, as it most of it is in bank accounts in Seychelles and Cayman Islands, and CFK will still be able to enjoy her stolen loot.
17 Briton (#) Aug 23rd, 2014 - 06:20 pm Report abuse
Ha ha ha ,
Argentina: “Cristina, shares your fortune

how else is she to pay for all the trappings of power/riches / holidays , lunches , parties , and all the rest of YOUR fortunes...
18 Voice (#) Aug 23rd, 2014 - 07:48 pm Report abuse
Yankeeboy must be least he would have us believe so.....
19 Tik Tok (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 02:00 am Report abuse
Rather give the money than be tied by a tree
20 4n conTroll (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 02:29 am Report abuse
Why doesn't Blair or Bush share some of their millions in lecture circus cash on the UK and US poor? Please don't tell me you have none.
21 imoyaro (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 02:47 am Report abuse
22 4n conTroll (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 03:01 am Report abuse
I have a feeling if CFK did the same thing as above, you guys would be accusing her of vouchsafing pittance in comparison to her total wealth.
23 imoyaro (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 03:03 am Report abuse
The point is she doesn't even do that. ;)
24 4n conTroll (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 03:10 am Report abuse
And what if she did?
25 imoyaro (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 03:19 am Report abuse
You speak in the hypothetical. ;)
26 4n conTroll (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 03:23 am Report abuse
Why is it that even the most fugacious cogitation of CFK in a positive light stultifies your “give credit to” sector of your conscience?
27 imoyaro (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 03:40 am Report abuse
Let me know when something like that happens. Then you can judge my reaction, but not until. ;)
28 4n conTroll (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 03:45 am Report abuse
Do you think you are an impartial observer, overall?
29 imoyaro (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 03:48 am Report abuse
Well as I like to say, “Dare mo muzai janai to omou ze.” The proof is in the pudding.
30 4n conTroll (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 03:51 am Report abuse
Am I allowed to enforce that adage as well?
31 imoyaro (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 03:55 am Report abuse
I'm a Free Will kinda guy. What you do is your own choice. ;)
32 gordo1 (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 07:23 am Report abuse
@20 Idiot boy

I can't speak for Bush but at least Blair “earns” his fees whereas la Kretina steals from the Argentine nation! I don't like the Blairs but if “push came to shove” I believe we would find they are charity givers in a big way.
33 ElaineB (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 09:29 am Report abuse
@32 I was going to say something similar.

TTT, the K's stole their money from the Argentine people. Blair legitimately earned his money, paid his tax on it, and is entitled to do what he wants with it. That you cannot see the difference is concerning.
34 gordo1 (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 10:13 am Report abuse
I wonder whether you surmise correctly, viz“paid his tax on it”! I also wonder whether the IOM, Bermuda, Nassau, and the Channel Islands and other offshore operations are involved.
35 ElaineB (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 10:50 am Report abuse
@34 I am sure he has the best accountants money can buy. He also has a huge ego and a bit of a messiah complex so I don't think he would run the risk of a tax scandal. JMO
36 Voice (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 10:56 am Report abuse
Amazing... first accusing one person of stealing money...without any proof.
...then another of not stealing money...without any proof...
How the feck do you know these things...?
Ahh!!...I Argentine friend told you at the airport or was it the restaurant...I forget which....
37 imoyaro (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 11:29 am Report abuse
One more time.
38 Conqueror (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 11:48 am Report abuse
@36. You seem to have lost track. Let's take CFK as a start point. According to various reports, declarations etc, she and the dead one had somewhere between US$0.5 million and US$1.5 million in 2003 when he ascended to the Throne of State. By around 2013, she declared US$16 million. According to HER, most of that money comes from a couple of hotels. According to others, those hotels are generally empty. Architects have declared that there are vaults below various properties. Ex-employees have declared that they have witnessed holdalls and suitcases full of cash being taken into and out of said vaults. Various people have stated that they have witnessed bags and cases being taken into the cabin of a certain aircraft. That then flew, with CFK, to a particular place where she had no official business to conduct. And she was seen there. Now let your imagination run riot. If the hotels are nearly always empty, i.e. no guests, where's the money coming from? Why the vaults? Most people can manage to keep their important private documents in a filing cabinet. Are they there so that she can keep her thousands of little black dresses in perfect condition? How did she know she'd need so many? And don't forget that Nestor's offspring got a slice when he snuffed it. Despite her many public appearances, how often does she take questions? Can you solve a simple equation? 2 + 2 = ? As for Blair & co, their income is fairly well known. And both have government security. Hard to hide so much from so many. Not that they aren't overpaid.
39 ElaineB (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 12:00 pm Report abuse
@36 You are a bit sensitive this morning.
40 Iron Man (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 01:14 pm Report abuse
If they pay CFK anything at all then she is overpaid.
41 Voice (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 01:25 pm Report abuse
Not at all....
I like to highlight the obvious flaws in your Argentine attacks lest folk start believing that you are a credible authority on Argentine affairs....

“I was talking to some British friends in Harrods the other day and they said that Blair was using his political position to enhance his property portfolio with his wife fronting it...”
42 yankeeboy (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 01:30 pm Report abuse
She won't be able to keep her ill gotten gains after she's out of office. A year in Argentina moves much more quickly than in the civilized world. A lot can and will happen by EOY 2015.
I'll be very surprised if she doesn't end up stepping down or taken out before her term is up.
43 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 01:31 pm Report abuse
Why do you support the Kirchner government and what they have done to Argentina Voice?
44 ilsen (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 01:40 pm Report abuse
45 Voice (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 01:47 pm Report abuse
I don't support anything...I just provide a balance or a differing viewpoint from the obvious unnecessary attacks on Argentina....
Most Governments have a degree of corruption and how many Senators are using their position to line their own or their friends pockets...
Is CFK pro Argentina or pro herself....?
Was Blair pro the UK or pro himself....?
Which of the two are/were the most patriotic...?
Tony Blair was living off his wife's earnings when he began his political aspirations and much is he worth now.....
46 ElaineB (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 02:03 pm Report abuse
@45 The fact that you singled me out is very flattering. :)

I am pretty sure your friends in Harrods are correct that he and his wife have property. I am not sure what political influence they are so assured of because he is pretty unpopular in the UK. What is illegal about owning a property portfolio anyway or are you just against anyone with wealth? I don't like Blair as you will know from following my posts so closely but it is not because of his earned wealth.

Are you really the only Argentine who believes the CFK's government is not corrupt?
47 yankeeboy (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 02:06 pm Report abuse
You can't compare the looting of a country's treasury to making a fortune AFTER you leave office.

The Ks have been in politics their whole life, they started stealing gov't owned land in Santa Cruz and resold it at a tremendous profit or developed it personally as the basis of their “known” fortune. If that was done in a civilized country they both would have been in jail 2 decades ago.
There's also U$330MM in missing interest payments from a Swiss bank account of the Province Of Santa Cruz under the complete control of Nestor. That was the beginning of their hidden fortune.

The next Prez will take care of CFK and her minions and disgusting children. I have no worries about that.
Or a frenzied crowd will take care of it for him/her
48 Troy Tempest (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 02:35 pm Report abuse
45 ThinksVoice

What does Tony Blair have to do with this article? - nothing, sheer deflection.

Meanwhile, back on topic, and back in Argentina, a retired government minister,long affiliated with the K's, is speaking out publicly, that CFK's money management leaves something to be desired and she should 'give back' something to the people of Argentina.

Nun has stopped short of accusing her of “stealing” from the people, but he obviously feels she 'owes' the people something.

Lanata and others are very clear about what they know and CFK has done the best to shut down the media reporting it. No legal action, no defamation suits - obviously not wanting an investigation or scrutiny, herself.
Meanwhile, CFK cronies in the USA are being investigated for money laundering large amounts of funds taken out of Argentina.

There IS a “smoking gun”, all the indications are there, yet an otherwise cynical and snide “Voice” is defensive about a political leader being exceptionally corrupt, in a country already high on the international list of corrupt governments and politicians.

Sounds like a real British Kirchnerist, to me.
49 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 03:07 pm Report abuse
Unnecessary attacks? No one deems them necessary or unnecessary, but certainly self inflicted. compare the corruption in the UK and USA the that in Argentina? If you do than you've been to none of these countries. In they USA they ultimately get caught. New orleans mayor.....Blogovich.....traficant.......and Jersey Governor under the glass. I hardly profess the USA abstains from corruption but I will say....they go to jail.

This website is not about the USA or the is about the South Atlantic and what country do you suppose is there. Have you ever been to Argentina voice? Have to talked to the working class on the street in Argentina? Have you ever seen villa 31 on the way to Newbery airport? I is something one can never forget because the pictures online does it new justice on how god forsaken that place is and is allowed to grow. Seeing the hacked electrical wires alone is amazing. But then they are the voters the Kirchner appeals to....with handouts.
50 Troy Tempest (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 03:21 pm Report abuse
49 Capt Poppy

“ unnecessary attacks”, as ThinksVoice puts it - yeah, he would know all about unnecessary attacks.

Don't you think it's a bit ironic and more than a bit hypocritical for “Voice ” of all people, to be admonishing anyone for “unnecessary attacks”!!!

Funnier still, that he would go out on a limb to defend Argentina and CFK.

I think you are wrong though, “Voice ” has lived in Argentina, but he took the road to the airport a long time ago - before Villa 31.
51 Brasileiro (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 03:53 pm Report abuse
These shits Saxons think that their righteousness is better than ours. These idiots Saxons have lost more wars and were conquered by arms so many times they think that war and fear is the correct way to live. It is not!

Saxons GO HOME!
52 Troy Tempest (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 04:06 pm Report abuse
51 Brassiere

You're a little off topic.

Funny that a “Brazilian” is so upset about Argentina.

LOL !!!
53 yankeeboy (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 04:29 pm Report abuse
Every Brazilian I have ever met hates Argentinians.
54 Tobers (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 04:37 pm Report abuse
Troy Tempest makes a good point. Why doesnt CFK and her majority in congress who have a strong grip on the justice system sue Clarin and Lanata for defamation? If she really wanted to damage the media against her and raise her credencials with the 50/50s why not take this all the way and sort it out once and for all?
55 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 04:59 pm Report abuse
Troy Voice is one who needs his secrecy. I agree yb. And vice versa.
56 The Voice (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 05:03 pm Report abuse
Voice, have Harrods got a branch in Dunoon? Or… did you get it mixed up with Morrisons? Poser, liar probably
57 yankeeboy (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 06:41 pm Report abuse
I wonder if the estimated $200B in pesos that will be pushed into the economy by eoy includes the $ that the Fed will have to send to the Provinces to make up their huge shortfalls too??

I bet it doesn't
58 Briton (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 07:07 pm Report abuse
56--you can afford to go to Harrods ??

been past it tons, but never gone in, to posh for the likes..
still, did they have anything worth

back on topic,
using other people money seems to be the in thing with governments nowadays..
And they never
59 Troy Tempest (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 07:31 pm Report abuse
Poppy / Yankee

Ok, case closed. ThinksVoice can't refute logic
60 Clyde15 (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 07:46 pm Report abuse
I am surprised at you . You are always posting videos about Germany and what a wonderful country it is. Now you want ALL Saxons to go back to Saxony, a state in GERMANY because you think they are idiots and shits.
Dear oh dear, what happened to mummy's boy today to bring this on ?
61 imoyaro (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 07:53 pm Report abuse
About those shortfalls...
62 Voice (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 08:43 pm Report abuse
OM stupid parody!!....I wasn't at Harrods!!! It was a parody of Elaine's usual posts about Argentina....”I was speaking to some Argentine friends in....(insert location)...and they said.....blah de blah...

PMSL....Any slower and you will be going backwards.....

Speaking of Dunoon have you seen the New British postage right...

Take no notice of that poor copy...he's still sore at me for leaving him in the lurch...
63 Troy Tempest (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 09:01 pm Report abuse
Forget the Trolls.

Back on topic:

In the past, CFK has done well be identifying herself with Evita.

Evita, the extroverted philanthropist, won the peoples' hearts, rightly or wrongly.

CFK wants to trade on that image, but doesn't seem to be willing to sacrifice any of. “her” money to do it.

Too bad her pride (obstinance/entitlement) will force her to stay on until there's gunfire in the lobby of the Casa Rosada.

Doesn't she have most of her US $$ out of there by now ?
64 yankeeboy (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 09:06 pm Report abuse
63. Dictators never know when enough is enough and they always overstay their welcome.
65 chronic (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 09:12 pm Report abuse
62. Smeagol, a lot of people seem to be confused about the purpose of the comment section on Enmercopress. They think it is to discuss matters related to South America - but we (that is, I andVoice/Think/ncontrl/etc., hereinafter referred to collectively and severaly as “Smeagol”) know the true purpose. It serves only as a forum for the self aggrandizement of your ego.

Smeagol, your Yankee Amigos salute you for the successful hijacking of this soapbox. And no matter how modest the ransom, it is too expensive.
66 Voice (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 09:41 pm Report abuse
What is... chronic, is your punctuation! Do you just hazard a guess at where it's supposed to be....?
Did you graduate from High School...?
...and your purpose on here is...?

67 Troy Tempest (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 10:05 pm Report abuse
65 chronic

You just called Voice out as a useless knob, and he tries to duck it by criticising your spelling and punctuation???

good job

68 yankeeboy (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 10:13 pm Report abuse
67. We've all been there.
Next thing you'll know he'll be talking about the sun coming up at 2am
69 Voice (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 10:23 pm Report abuse
Here come the troops...sycophant Tempest...
....and Mystic Meg Yankee....“I predict the sun will rise”......and other predictions of that ilk.....
70 HansNiesund (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 10:40 pm Report abuse

When did Brits ever “graduate from High School”?
71 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 10:52 pm Report abuse
Have you guys ever noticed that when a animal gets pinned, its defensive mode is to operate in what it knows best.........for some that is focusing on details; form over function. I agree Troy.

Voice about a year ago you and me had an argument over an American historical figures speech and what it meant. I was trying to recall who that you recall?
72 Voice (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 10:57 pm Report abuse
They don't...but Yanks do....on the other thread I reckoned he was a southern Yank...
Although in Scotland, one technically graduates from high school, as pupils take highers (closer to A levels) there.
There is no break from high school to college like in England, so it is closer to Yankee schools...but not a High School diploma....
73 yankeeboy (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 10:59 pm Report abuse
69. You may want to go back over the last few years and see where your buddy Think and his ilk disagreed with me on 100s ( 1000s?) of occasions so its not so obvious to some.

You both have the unique ability to be wrong on every post every time.

And you obviously like humiliation
one might call it a perversion
74 Voice (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 11:06 pm Report abuse
You little tinker Pops.....;-)))
You know fine well who it are testing me to see if I'm A_Voice....
Benjamin Franklin....Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither...
...and I mentioned there was a version of the quote below the statue of Liberty...I think....
75 ilsen (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 11:12 pm Report abuse
Cup of tea anyone? Same argument, different day.

Yankeeboy has,on the whole, been correct in his economic predictions.
I congratulate him but must disagree with his calls for some form of dictatorship.
Cultural change is needed, and whilst a difficult and slow process, I believe it to be the only way forward for Argentina.
76 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 11:13 pm Report abuse
Not at all. I am old. Memory fading. 50s does that.....but thanks for the recall as I thought it was Adams.... being in Massachusetts.
Great quote btw...alone sounds so powerful.
77 yankeeboy (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 11:23 pm Report abuse
75. They basically have a dictator now, just a stupid one.

Lots of chatter about Crissy almost in tears and a bit, shall we say, confused on her last broadcast.

tick tock tick tock
78 Voice (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 11:40 pm Report abuse
Yeah predictions like...Inflation is going to rise....
The judge is going to rule against Argentina....
There's going to be blackouts....
...If you stand in the rain you are liable to get wet....'s scary stuff....goosebumps just thinking about them...

...and my personal favourite....Singer is going to intercept the Gas Tanker in Uruguayan waters.....
79 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 24th, 2014 - 11:49 pm Report abuse
I would not have called them predictions as much as saying he was refuting kirchner's unorthodox policies. Her trolls were claiming her would do this and he merely refuted them. The only predictions per say that I recall is the peso.....and SCOTUS. I actually thought they may well act being international politics.
80 Voice (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 12:36 am Report abuse
Defend him all you want Pops, but remember he wishes all Argentines nothing but ill..he would like to see them freeze, starve and suffer.... have a wife and extended Argentine family...I wouldn't give him the time of day....
Blind and illogical hate needs to be countered and I'm happy to oblige....
BTW I do have a defensive's called attack....
It's past my bed time...I'm off to dream of Electric Sheep....
81 Troy Tempest (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 01:58 am Report abuse
Capt and YB

Did Voice actually make a POINT, after the multiple posts since his weak excuse for his “High School” gaffe?

Just empty insults and provocation... a useless bore.

I ask you, what's the point?
82 Marcos Alejandro (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 02:28 am
Comment removed by the editor.
83 chronic (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 03:44 am Report abuse

Rotting roadkill and its citizenery are about to once more reap what they have sown. They deserve and own all the misery that acrues from having elected and relected Cretina. Enjoy!

You Yankee Amigos wish you bon appetite.
84 imoyaro (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 03:54 am Report abuse
And in other news, Carlos Telleldin is still being protected by the current Peronist/Kleptocratic government of Argentina. ;)
85 gordo1 (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 06:05 am Report abuse
@82 relevance to this thread? Marquitos Alejandrito and his juvenile mindset!
86 reality check (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 06:42 am Report abuse

He lives in the UK. Posting links to terrorism from here.

That's how intelligent he is!
87 gordo1 (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 08:30 am Report abuse
@ 85 So he may have read the Sunday Times yesterday which is quoted in several Latin American newspapers today viz:

“En declaraciones a ese mismo dominical, el ministro de Asuntos Exteriores, Philip Hammond, afirma que el supuesto origen británico del yihadista que presuntamente asesinó a Foley supone una ”absoluta traición“ a los valores del país.”
88 Clyde15 (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 08:52 am Report abuse
So THAT'S what you look like. You are not much of a singer, are you !
89 The Voice (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 08:59 am Report abuse
A_Voice's contribution to the discussion. As usual, big fat zero. Just like him really…. A bag full of wind.
90 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 09:24 am Report abuse
I wouldn't call it defending him Voice. It is what it is. I think he gets blinded by his disdain of Kirchner as do I. I do generally point out his broad strokes when he does. But that fact remains regardless of my wife and in laws that the vast majority of Argentines are Peronistas or Kirchnerites and not capitalists or open market based thinkers.....that is a fact.
He also may be more conservative than I but as an American, I've bled so he can disagree so I also have no problem with the fact of different opinions. Where we do agree is freedoms, markets and Kirchners. And.....I vehemently want to see Kirchner seriously pay for her dead, rotten road kill( I love that phrase......if they must use Vultures, they must be roadkill) husbands actions and hers. If they hung her ass and left her decaying body on the Oblisk............I would visit just for the smell of her decay.
91 yankeeboy (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 12:05 pm Report abuse
I don't need anyone to defend me but thanks to all that do. I stand by every post I've ever made.
Voice/Think and their ilk come to troll. They rarely post anything related to the articles or Argentina as a whole.
Voice thinks he comes here to offer a differing side, hmm, would that be by pointing out grammar and spelling mistakes? Talking about Scotland? Imaginary road trips?
Think, tries to be clever but alas he's not smart enough. It usually comes off as greasy and sickening. Lots of his posts actually turn my stomach.

I have made my viewpoints very clear, I would love to see every Marxist/Socialist/Communist put up against a wall and be taken out for the false hope they promote to the unwashed uneducated masses. They've caused more misery and death in the world than every war we've had in the last 100 years.

As for the Argentinians, the reason I want the Peronists to suffer, and suffer greatly, is so that they finally learn that you don't deserve to live well without being productive. These Rgs need something drastic to change their mindset, to finally see corruption is bad and must not be tolerated. My thinking is that they need to suffer greatly before they realize these facts. The slow grueling descent into abject poverty is insidious and deliberate by the Peronist Pigs.
Slowly taking away their riches, hope and dignity year after year, decade after decade, little by little so nobody notices until it is too late.
Its evil incarnate and the only people that can change it are the Rgs themselves.
Let's hope someday they wake up.
92 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 12:38 pm Report abuse
State-run Argentine energy firm YPF is now buying on the open market a significant portion of its diesel and fuel oil needed for power generation, tender documents show. That has raised the cost of electricity subsidies even as the country again fell into a debt default last month.
“Argentina has agreed to pay this year up to US$20 per million BTU for LNG imports versus an international price of US$16-18,” a trader said. “But consumers don’t notice it because of the subsidies.”
A YPF spokesman, when asked about Venezuelan supplies, said that domestic price increases are a result of higher costs, but he declined to elaborate.
93 yankeeboy (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 12:54 pm Report abuse
YPF shelved a bond float of U$5B ( I think). My guess is CFK will bankrupt YPF, she'll use up what little U$ they have buying fuel and giving it away cheaply to the peasants.
I wonder what will happen if Chevron loses in CA this week?
That may throw a wrench in the gears.

I've always thought fuel would be their ultimate downfall.

We shall soon see if I was right.
94 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 01:09 pm Report abuse
I think Argentina missed a close one with a mild winter for energy. However know what their summers are like........this is where the black outs will spike in the demand for AC.
95 yankeeboy (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 01:16 pm Report abuse
94. Yes they did, they are using a lot of diesel fuel to power large portable generators for sections of the city when it goes down. They can no longer afford to import the parts to fix the grid.
It is very short sighted but they don't have any other alternatives.

The BCRA float is almost gone, they were barely scraping by with the Soy sales and those ended last month. Its all down hill from here until next summer. Funny thing is, nobody thought 2014 was going to be the bad year for outgoing payments, everyone thought if there was going to be an issue it'll be 2015. They have something like U$16B due next year. Which is way more than they could ever hope to have.
The USA really pulled one over on them with the Paris Club and ICSID payments.
My guess is they'll get booted out of IMF next year too, which mean bye bye to the rest of the Int'l bank memberships.
96 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 01:50 pm Report abuse
I see they are now deflecting questions about China not giving loans due to the default. This default is like their Waterloo for those Argentines who accept reality.
97 chronic (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 02:13 pm Report abuse
90. “vast majority of Argentines are Peronistas or Kirchnerites and not capitalists or open market based thinkers.....that is a fact.”

This reflects my observation as well.

91. “I would love to see every Marxist/Socialist/Communist put up against a wall and be taken out for the false hope they promote to the unwashed uneducated masses. They've caused more misery and death in the world than every war we've had in the last 100 years.”

Concur. The Lefty Roosevelt should have been impeached and tried for war crimes and the cross dressing Churchill should have been horse whipped - wait he might have like that. Their actions at Yalta condemned millions of Allies to 45 years of suffering and oppression behind the Iron Curtain. The Poles fought as bravely as any and deserved far better. This explains much of the lingering mistrust and resentment towards the west. Patton and MacArthur had it right.

“As for the Argentinians, the reason I want the Peronists to suffer, and suffer greatly, is so that they finally learn that you don't deserve to live well without being productive. These Rgs need something drastic to change their mindset, to finally see corruption is bad and must not be tolerated. My thinking is that they need to suffer greatly before they realize these facts. The slow grueling descent into abject poverty is insidious and deliberate by the Peronist Pigs.
Slowly taking away their riches, hope and dignity year after year, decade after decade, little by little so nobody notices until it is too late.
Its evil incarnate and the only people that can change it are the Rgs themselves.
Let's hope someday they wake up.”

I perceive no schadenfreude in this statement. This is a lesson that needs to be imprinted in DNA and hardwired into the pysche of future generations.
98 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 04:04 pm Report abuse
Don't tip your hand too far....some already know, some will see a card or two and some never will.
99 yankeeboy (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 04:27 pm Report abuse
So now everyone who is against the govt is sided with Singer.

With all of this paranoia how do they even get out of bed?
100 bushpilot (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 04:39 pm Report abuse
@97 “is so that they finally learn you don't deserve to live well without being productive. ”

Everyone in the world that doesn't get this ought to pay by suffering to understand this. Not only Argentinians but freeloaders everywhere.

In the United States too.
101 yankeeboy (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 04:53 pm Report abuse
100. I agree.
102 Chicureo (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 05:21 pm Report abuse
You say: “I would love to see every Marxist/Socialist/Communist put up against a wall and be taken out for the false...”
We tried that in Chile, as well as other Latin contries and it didn't seem to work.
I think the best solution is to let them live in a Marxist/Socialist/Communist society's utopia for a year, such as the DPRK.
103 yankeeboy (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 06:27 pm Report abuse
102. Because you didn't get every, but your solution works too.
104 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 06:36 pm Report abuse
I am against the government but I would hardly consider my self siding with Singer.

#97 BTW missing over that ”don't deserve to live well without being productive. ”

I know many brothers with shrapnel on the spine, paralyzed neck down....waste down and they are hardly productive. You should really define your broad strokes when you define road kill.
105 yankeeboy (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 06:40 pm Report abuse
No I was talking about the Old Drag Queen saying the unions threatening to strike are helping Singer.
That guy gets dumber with every morning's press conference.

If they were injured while supporting their country they deserve to be well compensated for the rest of their lives.

Also there are people who are not qualified to work. I do believe in charity if it is needed. But if you can work you must work or starve. I have no sympathy for freeloaders or people trying to beat the system.
106 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 06:43 pm Report abuse
Yes.....Though I have to admit I am enjoying Singer's MO and the show he is putting. As I said I would literally applaud watching her die a slow and painful death.

And I totally agree Capitanich is SA's Baghdad Bob.
107 Britworker (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 06:46 pm Report abuse
Oh haha, not been on here for a few days, just seen this story, pissed myself laughing.
When the Spanish conquistadors arrived in South America they took all the Incas gold, they stripped their sacred places and monuments of all their gold and they took it back to Spain and melted it down. That gold was their soul and their spiritual identity, they ceased to be a society and a people when they took it from them.

If the Argentines have been stripped of their wealth by a greedy unscrupulous leader and left them with nothing when she departs for safety on foreign shores next year, they will have have some idea of what the indigenous people of South America had to go through and they deserve no sympathy and no help from anyone.
108 MagnusMaster (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 07:23 pm Report abuse
@105 What if there isn't enough work for everyone though? Argentina is an agrarian country and most agriculture isn't labor intensive anymore. When robots and computers replace most of the service sector it will get even worse. Unfortunately it is not easy to distinguish between those who need help and the freeloaders, and usually the freeloaders actually NEED help.
And why did the USA hint at the Ks that if they paid the Paris Club and Repsol they would get loans? It's unusually clever intervention for the Americans, that's for sure, but if you are right and the Peronists find out about this it will eventually backfire on you...
109 ChrisR (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 07:40 pm Report abuse
@ 108 MagnusMaster
“but if you are right and the Peronists find out about this it will eventually backfire on you...”


Is TMBOA going to scrweem and scrweem until she makes herself throw up?

Are the military going to suddenly find new hardware that actually floats, flies or goes BANG?

Or are they going to expropriate ALL the US firms dollars and chuck them out of the country? THAT I would like to see and especially what happens next. Ha, ha, ha.

Come on, you are one of the few on here with a brain and don’t usually post rubbish like this.
110 yankeeboy (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 08:40 pm Report abuse
There was a wink and a nod from the USA reps at IDB/WB etc that said IF you pay off PC and ICSID we'll stop voting against your disbursements.


You've got to be kidding about being Agrarian so there nothing for most of the population to do. What about software? Inventing something? Come up with the new ipad or iphone? Do you really think your too stupid to do nothing? Too lazy? Should the farmers invest all their capital to feed, cloth and house the masses?
Up against the wall please.
111 MagnusMaster (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 08:59 pm Report abuse
@109 Well, I don't think the Americans want the government to expropiate their corporations.
@110 What I was asking is, why the wink and a nod? Did they just wanted the Paris Club and Repsol to get paid or was it part of a plan to get rid of CFK?

Most people in Argentina are too uneducated to code software (you need very good thinking skills to do that) and you can't really invent the new iPhone without a strong manufacturing sector or technology you control so you can outsource it and still get rich. Poor peasants usually aren't inventors.
The farmers (and the rich in general) don't need to invest all their capital to feed, cloth and house the masses, just to invest in manufacturing, technology and research. But it seems they don't want to do even that.
112 ilsen (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 09:00 pm Report abuse
An excellent and most relevant post.
I thank you.

I can't believe how they maintain this attitude of 'never my fault'.
113 yankeeboy (#) Aug 25th, 2014 - 09:07 pm Report abuse
111. What companies are left to expropriate? Anything of value has long left the country.

I don't think they cared about the PC but they did care about the ICSID judgement getting paid. My guess it was a way to stop Axel from crying and banging on the table at the last IDB meeting. They said IF you do this We will maybe stop voting against the U$6B in disbursements. Maybe was the key word but he probably didn't hear it.

The farmers owe the peasants nothing. There is no incentive to keep the money in the country where it can be stolen on the whim of the President. Maybe someday when people believe private property is sacrosanct. It will change. Probably not in any of our lifetimes though.
114 4n conTroll (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 12:05 am Report abuse
OH OH... MAJOR TROUBLE all over the place!!

From that FAR LEFT Marxist outfit, the CATO INSTITUTE:

“There are many signs that the world may be headed for a new economic slump, or worse. Which countries are best positioned to weather such a downturn and which are not?”

“For most of the major countries, their deficits were greater than their rate of economic growth, giving them a net negative number”

“However, with China, there are always questions about continued political stability. At the moment, the country is dealing with a debt bubble, which could greatly depress economic growth.Russia is too dependent on natural resources, and a big decline in oil and gas prices and exports could cause a sharp drop in growth. As with China, there is political risk, as well as an unstable Ukraine next door.”

“The Canadians always suffer from weakness in the U.S. economy, and the Germans are being pulled down by their fellow Europeans and a disastrous foray into green energy that caused energy prices to soar.”

“The United States, United Kingdom, France, Italy, Japan and Spain are in deep trouble. They all have way too much government and debt — and crony capitalism — and their debt burdens as a percentage of GDP continue to grow. This means slower growth, or worse, over the longer run.”


“Italy, Spain and Japan have a demographic crisis, where the elderly, dependent population is rapidly outgrowing the number of workers. As a result, their economies are in a slow death spiral.”

“Chile retail sales stall, car sales tumble, investment down”

115 Troy Tempest (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 12:21 am Report abuse
110, 111, 113, Gents

interesting posts.
116 Voice (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 12:37 am Report abuse
Sycophant alert......Sycophant alert......
117 4n conTroll (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 12:44 am Report abuse
These last two above are more concerned about Argentina than about their crippled economes. WTFF??
118 Voice (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 12:49 am Report abuse
Wait let me just look out of the window....nope looks the same..don't see any drastic changes...
I reckon I'll survive another day.....
119 4n conTroll (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 01:05 am Report abuse

And you think it's not the same view from my Mendoza window??

You people have predicted Armageddon for 2 months now (since the default, and I'm being extremely generous there, since we know you all have been screaming for years), and I look out the windows and the street is still paved, the cars are still running, the lampposts still have light, and people are going and coming from work and kids are playing in the street...

120 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 01:10 am Report abuse
Cuntina's favorite charity is her own corrupt pathetic self. I hope bugged nasty nestor's grave gets defiled and they line up to piss on all things kirchner.
And I was outside enjoying a partagas and it all looks the same to me.
121 Voice (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 01:11 am Report abuse
Moi...? Finger pointing at myself....
You do realise who you are talking to...?
I have been predicting what...? Have you ever read any of my posts..?

Show me just one post where I have said any such thing.....or...STFU...
122 Anglotino (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 01:40 am Report abuse
Nostrils at 114 never learns. From his link: he drew this conclusion: ”(SOUND THE FIRE ALARMS, THE NON-ARGENTINA ECONOMIES ARE CRUMBLING)“

From that report I got these quotes:
”China, South Korea, Chile, Switzerland, Russia and AUSTRALIA are all in good fiscal shape“
”Chile, Switzerland and AUSTRALIA are solid democracies under the rule of law“
”The Swiss and the AUSTRALIAS are both rich and sensible, and hence, even though they cannot avoid being harmed by a new global recession, they almost certainly will do better than most other countries.”

So I turned off the alarm bells.

Nostrils can't deny that Argentina is in recession with sky high inflation, a high budget deficit, declining reserves, a tanking currency and lack of investment.

So he is forced to deflect to every other problem he can find elsewhere..... anything to not actually face up to and verbalise what is going on in his own country.

If only Argentina had continued to be economicall equal to Australia as it once was. Its economy would have been US$2.8 trillion and the fifth largest in the world in front of France, the UK, Brazil and Russia. The opportunities available to someone like Nostrils would have been so much more than selling trinkets.

Indeed it would probably have attracted more immigrants than currently losing people to emigration and could have been just behind the US, China and Japan.

From a potential world power to a regional laughing stock. Argentina has been reduced to begging at every fora for the return of a couple of islands and relief from paying debt.
123 4n conTroll (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 01:56 am Report abuse

I think I have made it clear that basically every country in the world has a better economy than Argentina.

It still does not mean their way of living is better. There is more to life than just making money, but you probably have still not figured that one out.

You probably need to grow up some more.
124 chronic (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 02:36 am Report abuse
Buenos Aires, Argentina. IG, its only 200 miles over there. You need to get your handsome Texican self and your poke and row over there and settle with ole Jose. Punta del Este isn't that big a place is it?
125 Anglotino (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 03:40 am Report abuse
“I think I have made it clear that basically every country in the world has a better economy than Argentina.”

Nostrils you are too embarrassed to find out why. You just offer platitudes to divert the need to talk about why or to even discover the truth for yourself.

There is more to life than earning money. However you seem to make out that this is a path that Argentina has chosen to follow.

It isn't.

Argentina has not chosen a path of fulfillment of quality for its citizens. Nor has it chosen to invest in social indicators.

So telling someone to grow up because you can't form a coherent argument is in itself juvenile.

I hate to tell you, but people do live better off in Australia. This isn't just because of money or the economy but the rule of law, social protection and stability. A larger economy enables Australia to improve and deepen these things and to protect and project our interest on the world stage.

Longevity, crime, income redistribution, education, inventiveness..... Australia blitzes Argentina on all these measures.

You country has been going down the wrong path for so long and you think you are being faithful to it by ignoring this and refusing to criticise that you can save losing face.

The fact is that too many of your compatriots think this way and so there will be no change.
126 4n conTroll (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 03:52 am Report abuse
I'm not interested in the “why”.

Ever heard of the saying “If life gives you lemons...”

So are you saying I should not make lemonade?

Why would I burden myself with things that won't change? I have said for even longer that Argentina is at the end of its history and its not coming back. I don't see how that is ignoring the truth. It is the ultimate acceptance: because I could see the truth and naively pretend I could do something to change it, but I can't. That's more of a truthful mindset than pretending I have the power to do anything.

What I have also said is that the end is not here yet.
127 chronic (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 04:14 am Report abuse
126 Smeagol, are we a bit grammatically challenged? lol
128 Troy Tempest (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 04:29 am Report abuse
127 Chronic

@126 Nostrils said

“ I have said for even longer that Argentina is at the end of its history and its not coming back.”

Nostrils is right, dead right. He admits it. It's inevitable, a steep decline...

Give up, Nostrils.
You are right - crawl under the house to die.
129 Marcos Alejandro (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 04:35 am Report abuse
91 yankeeboy
I don't understand your hate for Argentina, I know I know about your expensive watch(sorry) but please read what are the British Embassy in your beloved Washington were celebrating a few hours ago...the White House burning of 1814 with cake included!

British Embassy
”Commemorating the 200th anniversary of burning the White House. Only sparklers this time!
130 4n conTroll (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 05:11 am Report abuse

Only a fool would do what you suggest just because some human-made political entity is at the end of its life cycle.

So I guess all of Europe should have crawled under their dwellings and died when Rome was about to fall.
131 gordo1 (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 05:52 am Report abuse
Marcitos Alejandrito - ¡nene idiota!

Did you not read also that this silliness by the British Embassy in Washington led to an apology for its bad taste?
132 Troy Tempest (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 06:27 am Report abuse

133 Clyde15 (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 08:25 am Report abuse
I don't understand your analogy. Another equally valid way of looking at it was that when Roman rule was removed it allowed their “vassal” states to develop in their own way. Many of the peoples subjugated by Roman might were more civilized than Rome.

Equally I don't understand your hatred of Britain. What personally has it done to so upset you ?
134 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 12:51 pm Report abuse
#126 the problem is Argentina was given lemons and trying to make a chocotorta.
135 yankeeboy (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 12:55 pm Report abuse
130. It is plain to see why you are so nutty. Watching those kinds of videos is warping your tiny tiny brain.
136 gordo1 (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 01:20 pm Report abuse
I woke very early today - my 131 was, of course, directed to Marquitos Alejandrito.
137 chronic (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 02:10 pm Report abuse
130. From the lips of Smeagol, “Only a fool would do what you suggest just because some human-made political entity is at the end of its life cycle.”

There you have it. It is official. Rotting roadkill - as we know - is at its EOL.

Hey Smeagol, if every single one of these experiments ends in failure - what does that indicate about the proposition in general?
138 ilsen (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 07:35 pm Report abuse
'Ultimate acceptance'

Cop out and cowardice more likely. You prefer to live on your knees until someone ends your life for you?

Urrgg hh! You make my skin itch.
139 Troy Tempest (#) Aug 26th, 2014 - 10:30 pm Report abuse

Nostrils @126
“...I can't do anything about... ”

so, I guess he's saying, “ therefore, why try?”

and... “ why let it bother me, living in a failed state - make the best of it”

Now that I've paraphrased it, he'll argue about it, just as he did @130, in answer to my paraphrasing him @128.

Meanwhile, we'll all endure the histrionics, “ we're doomed! Why should we care ? You hate us... ” etc. etc. etc.
140 4n conTroll (#) Aug 27th, 2014 - 03:44 am Report abuse

My analogy is that life goes on. If Argentina ceases to exist big deal. I won't like it at first, having all my life sworn alliegence to it, but I will move on soon enough. I can't do anything to change the eventual death of Argentina, so I might as well concentrate my efforts elsewhere.


And your point is?


Well guess what... that “nut” is a prominent police chief of a major city in YOUR COUNTRY! And he just happened to be on youtube. Imagine the many more under the radar (pun intended).

Then you wonder why you live in a police state where your police treats you the citizen like wounded dogs??? That's the people policing you. Scary place NorthAmoland.


What Experiments are you referring to?


What cowardice? So if a train is about to hit a schoolbus, do you jump in front of it to show everyone “you tried to stop it”???? YOU FOOL!!!


Last response applies here.
141 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 27th, 2014 - 09:13 am Report abuse
If that was too complex for you you are too stupid to know.
142 yankeeboy (#) Aug 27th, 2014 - 12:09 pm Report abuse
Toby, Why do you posts lies? Are you too stupid to research something prior to posting? Or do you think the rest of us are?

NPD and Arrested Development is a dangerous and sad combination.

At some point very soon you'll be choosing between internet and food. It may have already happened.
Inflation is going to skyrocket as more businesses fail and unemployment massively increases.
I am waiting for the 1st auto mfg to pull out.
It can't be long now.
143 4n conTroll (#) Aug 27th, 2014 - 08:54 pm Report abuse
Blah blah blah
144 Troy Tempest (#) Aug 27th, 2014 - 10:14 pm Report abuse
142 YB

“...Internet or food...”
Thanks for that prediction, YB.

He must realise it is true, he's stopped arguing.

Sad for him. Sadder got his overworked and abused mother.

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