MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Brazil's central bank slashes rate one full percentage point to 8.25%
Brazil's central bank slashed its key interest rate this week by a full percentage point to 8.25%, the eighth consecutive cut as the country slowly exits a painful recession. The one percentage point fall in the base Selic rate had been predicted by markets and matched a previous cut in July. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesLooks like NOBODY needs money! If in NEED; just approach the World Famous Batista Brothers! After all, “borrowing” from them is less bureaucratic than the Govt. Banks.
Sep 10th, 2017 - 11:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0That's still very high if inflation has dropped to 3.38%. And I bet the banks cut interest on savings accounts immediately, but how quick are they to cut interest rates on loans?
Sep 10th, 2017 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@DT
Sep 10th, 2017 - 05:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For Brazil that rate is excellent, the acumulated rate over the last 12 months being 2,71 %,
the lowest since 1999.
You are right, interest on savings accounts and other investments based on the SELIC rate,
drop immediately, but interest charged on loans or on outstanding debt, doesn't budge (some at 450% per year).....the same as gas at the pump...everytime PB announces a cut in price at the refinery, virtually nothing happens, or a week later, the price per litre drops 2 cents, but any increase comes into effect immediately after the announcement, reflecting increases of 5 to 10%....just following a Brazilian motto, “why simplify things if you can complicate them ?”
Yeah, that inflation rate is good and also allows them to lower the interest rate, much better than having stagflation.
Sep 10th, 2017 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's exactly the same in the UK. Rates on savings accounts drop immediately, rates on mortgages follow slower and less, those on other loans don't change. But rates have been rock bottom for what feels like forever now; when we took out our mortgage, we never would have dreamed the next change would be a fall. And it's the same with gas for heating. When the price rises they raise the price, when it falls they announce record profits.
@DT
Sep 11th, 2017 - 12:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Looks like screwing the consumer is a global trend;
Taking advantage of the space, replying to story of which comments closed : “Ecuador etc”
That’s exactly what I’m getting at…the handouts in Brazil have been used wrongly. I wouldn’t worry about that happening in the UK, besides the “rules” for those eligible for handouts in the UK most likely follow a serious procedure, not just handing out money indiscriminately, in order for the PM to be seen as a personal benefactor….I’m not against the concept of ‘serious’ handouts, but when it becomes a politically motivated instrument to ‘captivate’ the minds of the poor. There’s a study by the World Wealth and Income database, signed by French economist Thomas Picketty (“The Capital in the 21st Century”, and other studies on inequality) and Marc Morgan, which states that inequality in Brazil, between 2001/15 was not reduced. It says the richest 10% increased their slice of the national income by 1% (54 to 55%), the poor increased theirs by 1% (11 to 12%), at the cost of the rest (estimated at 40% of the population), between those 2 extremes, which lost 2%. The economic growth had little impact in reducing inequality, suggesting that distribution of wealth is resilient to change, at least in the medium term. This study contradicts the Gini index, which claims there was an improvement in Brazil, due to social policies, specifically the BF and the increase of minimum wages over and above inflation. The study questions the PT claims that inequality was reduced…something I’ve said right from the start…observing today’s reality, you conclude that the net difference over those 15 years is not very perceptible.
Reducing consumption taxes would make an immediate, significant difference, leaving more cash in the pockets of the poor. The actions of the politicians have long left been ‘suspicious’…they have never put their money where their mouths are.
The Family Allowance, now Child Benefit, was given to all families with children under 16, or 18 if in full time education. In 2013 they started means-testing it but there are no other requirements unlike for the Bolsa Familia. It started in 1945, after the end of the war. The UK also has tax credits which have much more complicated rules, they were brought in by the last Labour government.
Sep 11th, 2017 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Is your problem that you don't think the rules are strict enough, or that you don't think they enforce them? I don't really understand the issue with 'captivating the minds of the poor', you think the programs basically buy votes for one politician or party? It's true there's always a risk people will vote for their own short term gain over the long term good of the country, and since the very rich have long done that in Brazil, maybe the poor will too.
Is this what you are talking about? http://wid.world/country/brazil/
Playing with the charts, it looks like income for the bottom 50% has risen since 2002, but it's come at the expense of the middle 40% and not the top 10%, who's income didn't change much at all. Considering the top 10% have over half of alll income, that not a good thing. I don't know if the income they list includes benefits like the BF though, it doesn't say.
There's also some depressing charts for the UK, eg “Top 1% net personal wealth share, United Kingdom, 1896-2011”, showing how the % of wealth owned by the 1% fell from over 70% (!) in 1900 to about 10% in the mid 1980s, but has been rising again since then.
I do wonder if the people receiving the BF would agree with your observation that it has not made much difference. But I agree reducing consumption taxes should help. They are shown in the UK statistics as making the Gini index worse, but in Britain are outweighed by other factors. I suspect this may not be the case in Brazil.
@DT
Sep 11th, 2017 - 06:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Presume application of such benefits in the UK is supervised…remember, while being given to people of an albeit lower social standing, we’re not talking of semi-illiterate people, living in wood shacks in slums, or in the middle of nowhere, miles away from the closest ‘whatever’ they call school. If the rules were as elaborate as in the UK (tax credits), BF recipients probably wouldn’t have the slightest idea what’s expected of them. Problem with the BF is there’s no supervision…hardly anyone complies with the rules, as no one bothers to supervise it ; people who entered the program over 10 years ago, are still in it…they should’ve left it after 3…reason why I say it’s become a political tool, and totally perverted…even many who now have found work, continue to collect it.
“captivating the minds of the poor'”…again you’re comparing Brazil to UK standards…the ‘poor’ here, besides being well over half the population, usually don’t have much more than very basic schooling - if that, cannot read too well - if at all, which means they cannot interpret what they read, and are at the mercy of those - good, and/or bad - who decide to either help them, or to “use” them…in Brazil’s case, these dozens of millions who can’t really think for themselves, are “used” by unscrupulous politicians (most of them). So it’s not just a case of trying to influence those who ‘can’ think for themselves, but to take advantage of those who can’t.
“wid.world”, that’s the organization…IF the poor shared the income of the middle 40% , or the top 10% and actually DID climb the ladder, that’s great, but the PT’s widespread claim of “lifting people out of poverty’, was more of a gimmick because they simply lowered the bar. These people were fooled into believing they were now middle-class, became indebted, but got a reality-check with the crisis. Difference ? take the BF away from most, and they’d have nowhere to fall dead…so what long term benefit has the BF, on its own, brought ?
”If the rules were as elaborate as in the UK (tax credits)“, BF recipients probably wouldn’t have the slightest idea what’s expected of them.”
Sep 11th, 2017 - 10:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm sure that's true. People here have enough trouble with all the forms, and many people don't even know they can claim tax credits. When I was younger I told my sister and a couple of poorly-paid friends they were eligible, they had had no idea. Not the same thing, but I had a temp job checking student loan forms one summer, and the requirements were so strict about 90% had to be sent back for correction.
I can't imagine how semi-literate people would cope with that. Of course there is some fraud in the UK, but nothing very significant. When you say people who have found work continue to collect it, I understood it was paid to those with a low income, even if in work. Do you mean people who started to earn enough to no longer be eligible, continued to claim it?
And while I'm sure politicians can manipulate them and do use them, being uneducated and even illiterate does not mean people can't think for themselves. What it does is make it hard for them to access information, limiting them to mostly TV or word of mouth.
How odd that my link didn't work. It does show the poor gained in income, not massively but somewhat, so that's progress. But if 90% of the people are sharing
@DT
Sep 12th, 2017 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The philosophy behind the BF when established as a social program (a revised combination of several previous benefits), was that it be of a high enough value to make a difference to someone in extreme poverty, but low enough, so that when the person’s situation improved, the value became insignificant. It is supposed to cover only food.
The idea was that this change occur in 2 or 3 years, but depending on where many recipients are located, in areas without jobs sufficient to incentivize people to get off their butts, or where wages are no better, many just lie back and relax.
While arranging work does not automatically exclude the person from the program, the hope was that this would occur naturally, within a reasonable time-frame - not that it would become a lifelong-benefit.
Government seems to justify the lack of decent control by claiming that as it covers millions of people, and the value is nothing to get excited over, the control might even cost more. While the BF concept is good, in many cases it ends up giving room for fraud…many who could leave it, just keep on collecting it...and with little, or no control….
Ok, being ignorant or illiterate doesn’t necessarily mean people can’t ‘think’ for themselves, but it makes them more prone to manipulation, as they most likely lack the knowledge to understand what’s really going on.
@JB
Sep 13th, 2017 - 10:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF:”in Brazil’s case, these dozens of millions who can’t really think for themselves, are “used” by unscrupulous politicians (most of them)“:
”most“ or ALL of them? I'm unable to identify any ”Honest & a Sincere Crook”; who really wants to improve the quality of lives of the millions. They are busy in improving the quality of lives of the millionaires instead!
https://i0.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Pais-da-Corrupcao.jpg?resize=466%2C338&ssl=1
@JB
Sep 13th, 2017 - 11:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's true that at some point preventing fraud costs more than the fraud itself and just isn't worth it, but how would we know if that is the case here? At least from what I have read the payments are made through the banks rather than via intermediary agencies who could skim a share from the funds and hand them out to their supporters.
I wonder if there are any stats on how many people have stopped claiming the BF because they were earning too much? I couldn't find anything in English, but there must have been some back when the economy was growing quickly. I did find a report suggesting there should be a bonus for success in school, rather than simply attendance.
Not sure what happened to the end of my last comment, but I think I was saying that if 90% of the people share less than 50% of the wealth then none of them are going to be too comfortable, no matter how you slice it.
I wonder if the 'ignorant and illiterate' really are easier to fool, or if they just don't care since they haven't much stake in society?
Seriously speaking; a part of history about the Fight to Change the Brazilian Power Structure:
Sep 13th, 2017 - 11:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.brasildefato.com.br/2017/09/11/mst-and-the-fight-to-change-the-brazilian-power-structure/
@DT
Sep 13th, 2017 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The government's justification came out after several cases of fraud were uncovered ....people who had no need for it, sharing the 'booty' with those supposed to supervise it...so, besides requiring the recipient's cooperation, it requires the involvement of corrupt, local politicians...the unfortunate fact is that WHEREVER there are public funds, there is bound to be corruption, to a higher or a lower degree.
Don't know where such stats could be found, or even if they exist, but based on the principle that control is rather precarious, I seriously doubt that any other info about the program, if available, would be reliable....to get an idea to what extent it managed to attain its objective, one would need to know how many entered, how many left, and when...and where they are concentrated, in order to pinpoint areas that need more development.
I would think that most “normal” people don't approve the concentration of wealth, to the point of 10% (or less) owning 90% (or more) of it, especially when the gap between the two extremes is so great.
Generally speaking, with regards to the 'ignorant and illiterate', I'd say both...if they are unable to participate in society as functioning citizens, this implies they are “out” of a lot of it, which in turn limits their ambition...
@JB: “...if they are unable to participate in society as functioning citizens, this implies they are “out” of a lot of it, which in turn limits their ambition...”: True!
Sep 13th, 2017 - 08:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's why they are fully explored:
https://i1.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/para-que-serve-o-trabalhador.jpg?w=650&ssl=1
@ :o))
Sep 13th, 2017 - 08:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ew.
I didn't know about large landowners forging documents to grab all the land. It's not surprising a lot of people left and moved to the cities. This agrarian reform sounds like a good idea if it was implemented sensibly, but I don't see why it has to be a socialist movement. There's nothing socialist about owning your own land, and later he complains the family farmers lack access to credit and investment which are definitely capitalist things. I wonder if they have tried setting up cooperatives to provide credit?
@JB
I suppose since everything else involves fraud in Brazil, it was inevitable. And the government have to rely on someone to gather the information, and check who is eligible.
The study I found did pinpoint some areas in need of development, although the census could do that. I remember when I was dealing with the Brazilian census data there were questions about things like whether they had a toilet, or running water in the house, and whether any adults in the household were illiterate. I guess if you had access to the data you could cross-check the census figures with the number of BF claimants in each area and look for anomalies, then you could investigate anything suspicious. I wish it was available, I'd have a go.
Regarding concentration of wealth, I think the guy in the article had a point when he said the way employment is structured is changing, and the old tools employees used to improve their pay and conditions (collective bargaining and strikes) are no longer effective. Perhaps that is the main reason inequality has been increasing in most developed countries.
And yeah, if people have no opportunity to participate in society they are not going to be invested in it. Even a manual job would be fine if they were paid enough to live on, but if the jobs available require education, the government needs to make sure everyone is educated.
That phrase you used earlier: “they’d have nowhere to fall dead”, is that a saying in Brazil?
@DT:
Sep 14th, 2017 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “large landowners forging documents to grab all the land”:
- This is the most COMMON practice!
- Almost ALL of the Landowners are either the politicians themselves or are a “front” of one politician or another.
- The “Agrarian Reform” - under the garb of socialism - is linked to the Landless Group & the Roofless Group and their movements. They are used by the landowners to grab more “FREE” land; just like they are used for creating “Organized Rallies” pro or against other associations, movements, government, opposition, etc.
- The “Agrarian Reform” - under the garb of socialism - is readily acceptable by the ignorant masses. So any politician who is “sympathetic” to them, attracts crowds and earns votes.
A PUZZLE which even the Brazilians don't know; how to solve:
http://www.otempo.com.br/polopoly_fs/1.1519646.1505342201!image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/main-charges-resize_620/image.jpg
@DT
Sep 14th, 2017 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If even today, govt has little control over these faraway locations, imagine how easy it was to grab land 60 years ago. Sarney’s grandfather was notorious for grabbing land/ enslaving its occupants. That’s how most northeastern oligarchs originated, and explains why the NE group in Congress is so powerful ; their main interest is to perpetuate the status quo in their home states.
The various attempts at agrarian reform (to attend small farmers) have not been too successful. There is plenty of land to be shared between these small landowners and the gigantic agribusiness, the problem is that the MST - meant to represent these farmers - eventually grew into a political movement - and found an easier way to survive than to actually work the plots of land that were distributed ; instead, they went to the cities to attract the unemployed - people who’d never even seen a garden hoe in their lives - and after receiving the plots, would either sell them or abandon them (prohibited for 10 years after receiving the title), and then protest for more; Then they started to invade productive land…with the advent of the PT, and the gradual shift to the left by the unions – 'generously' financed by the workers (contribuição sindical) – it became a way of life for the MST, not to mention huge handouts (100's of millions p/ year) they received from Lula and Dilma (until she screwed the pooch).
It was common to see them rolling up for protests in Brasilia, in their new cars, sporting the latest video cameras etc…many of the original leaders of the MST are now retired & well-off, without ever having worked.
The privately set up agricultural coops, (mainly in the south), have been in most cases, very successful, but …and there’s always a ‘but’ : the MST is not interested in serious work.
One of the objectives of the labor reform, was to make the previous rules more flexible, to include/ protect all forms of work. “Nowhere to fall dead”: yes, meaning totally destitute.
Actually, there is NO need to worry; since everyone is innocent even after being proven REPEATEDLY, that they ARE guilty.
Sep 15th, 2017 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Wow, you two are a right pair of downers. It seems that every time someone tries to improve things, the project just gets taken over by those who want to steal.
Sep 16th, 2017 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If those oligarchs are so powerful in government, they must be buying votes, right? Is there nothing that can be done about that? It must be hard to pass reforms when they are such a powerful block, even if the rest of the country is in favour.
@DT
Sep 16th, 2017 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's matter of being realistic...being that politics in Brazil attracts mainly those who are looking to preserve their own privileges, why d'you find it so hard to accept the fact that 1) change, under these conditions is hard, and 2) those who need to vote the changes are exactly those who have something to lose by it ?? And as I've said many times...the population, as a whole, is not particularly intelligent, in that it is unable to see through the mess, and demand changes....it's starting but it's a slow process. What can you expect from people who even after having seen all the sh*t on Lula been rubbed in their faces, still stand up for him ?
@JB:
Sep 18th, 2017 - 11:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Q - [a good one]:
“What can you expect from people who even after having seen all the shit on Lula been rubbed in their faces, still stand up for him?”
A: [one of it]:
https://i2.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Temer-Organizacao-Criminosa.jpg?w=640&ssl=1
@JB
Sep 18th, 2017 - 11:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't find it hard to accept those things exactly, but I wonder how these people manage to stay in power in a democracy. Surely they are not exactly popular with most voters?
RE End of the line: ex minister and confident:
I've never known lawyers be reluctant to take seemingly hopeless cases, and sometimes they win them too. But it's Lula's business. I wonder if he would still be blaming things on his wife if she was still alive? He must be pretty desperate after already being convicted once, and with so many other cases coming.
What I mean about languages is probably more obvious in the countries where they evolved. For English, there was a different dialect in each area, and each had some different vocabulary, its own accent and slightly different grammatical rules. None of them was 'right' or 'wrong', any more than American English is wrong now. But to have a common version of a language, with standardised spelling and rules, you have to pick one of these dialects and decide it is the correct one. It's usually the one used by rich people in the capital, so in Britain we have 'the Queen's English' or RP. And according to Wikipedia: “Modern Standard European Portuguese is based on the Portuguese spoken in the area including and surrounding the cities of Coimbra and Lisbon, in central Portugal.”
I'm guessing it works a bit differently in the Americas; the 'standard' dialect in the US seems to mostly depend on who is on TV, but they also look down on certain accents/dialects.
You get shows from all over the world, but not particularly from Portugal? Seems like it would be easier to show a programme in the same language. I wonder if you did, would they beep out the words that are rude in Brazil? ;) We have started to get shows from Brazil now, there was one called Merciless (Dupla Identidade according to Wiki).
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