MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Lula followers anticipate “killings” if the ex president is banned from running
Brazilian Senator and president of the Workers Party, PT, Gleisi Hoffmann said that jailing ex president Lula da Silva, indicted on corruption charges, once the final ruling is known will mean “killing many people”. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesWhile The mockery is unending; of the:
Jan 18th, 2018 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse +3- Democracy [although in the name only (“so-called”)]
- Law [made absurdly convenient for the Elite]
- Order [moserably orderless]
The Well-Organized Crime Syndicates PREVAIL.
Besides:
A well-KNOWN Corrupt is better than an UNknown one!
OR
ANY corrupt is “Good Enough” & “Qualified Enough” for the Brazilians! In fact; they are so accustomed to the Overall Corruption; any attempt to govern seriously; is bound to fail! REF:
http://www.robsonpiresxerife.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/charge-do-politico-safado-e-eleitor-idem.jpg
Basically she is saying that there will be blood on the streets if Lula's second hearing goes against him.
Jan 18th, 2018 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse +1I wonder if she has picked out who will be the scapegoats who will give their life for the party or will they pick at random.
Actually I wonder if we will even notice any increase in the number of people killed every day. Probably not.
Mark, Really does it matter if a few more numpties are sacrificing their lived for politics
Jan 18th, 2018 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse +2The authoritarian, radical left is a threat to people everywhere, and it's amazing that such ideology persists despite the failures of the Soviet Union, Venezuela and even Brazil which is just coming out of a two year recession thanks to the disaster of PT overspending and squandering of the opportunity provided by the 2000s commodities boom. The centre right had to clean up the economic mess and take the brunt of the anger with unpopular spending cuts to get the house in order, and now the leftist PT wants a go at another decade of unsustainable spending... these people never learn.
Jan 18th, 2018 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Look who is shedding crock-tears [IN ADVANCE] to strategically gain public sympathy:
Jan 18th, 2018 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse +1https://br.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idBRKBN1F71OC-OBRDN
And who does Gleisi think is going to carry out the killing ? some of the PT's ignorant followers, or are they (the PT) going to kill some of these 'expendable' followers so that they can blame the government ?
Jan 18th, 2018 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Cheshire_Cat
Jan 18th, 2018 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“PT overspending and squandering of the opportunity provided by the 2000s commodities boom”
By golly gosh I have been in Brazil through out that crises. I don’t recall reading anything in the English language media that made such a claim. Perhaps you could be more specific and less general as to your claim.
@Terence Hill:
Jan 18th, 2018 - 11:38 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Here you go. This article is from the Rousseff era.
https://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21663157-government-economic-holeand-still-digging-brazil-prepares-make-grave-fiscal-error
Brazil has managed to run a soaring fiscal deficit all through the commodities boom era, from beginning to end, even as the prices of its products were skyrocketing on the world market. This caused a spike in inflation (reaching two digits in 2015) and even higher fiscal deficit levels as the commodity prices, predictably, fell.
This forced Temer, after Dilma was impeached for corruption, to carry out a spending adjustment program to lower inflation and the deficit. These programs are usually extremely unpopular for the poor sod executing them, but necessary if further economic disasters are to be prevented.
In Latin America the left spends, and the centre-right always has to clean house.
Cheshire_Cat
Jan 19th, 2018 - 01:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0“overspending and squandering of the opportunity”. What I recall is reflected in this Reuters article which doesn’t appear support your interpretation.
“Brazil’s economic success was praised as the “Lula model,” or the “Brazilian consensus.” Growth was faster than at any time in the country’s past 50 years, and inflation remained under control. … Most important was the skyrocketing demand for commodities, which Brazil exports in large quantities. China was its biggest market, with a gross national product that was exploding at 10 percent or more a year.
What went wrong with Brazil’s economy? The Lula model may bear some blame. But not because it is inherently flawed. Rather, it is a model that, while relatively easy to implement when economic conditions are favorable, demands a level of political discipline hard to sustain when conditions sour.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-latinamerica-brazil-economy-commentar/commentary-heres-what-really-went-wrong-with-brazils-economy-idUSKCN0YH08D
@MarkWhelan
Jan 19th, 2018 - 10:02 am - Link - Report abuse +2REF: “Basically she is saying that...................................”
Basically, EVERYONE is being taken for a ride and the masses are absolutely thrilled & thankful for the ride:
https://joaopaulosampaio.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/516.jpg
Cheshire_Cat
Jan 19th, 2018 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“Here you go. …” “Brazil is in an economic hole…”
I can’t read it as it’s a subscription which unless you have one, neither can you.
@Cheshire_Cat
Jan 19th, 2018 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Confirming your opinion, the Reuters article above says it all...“When President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva left office in January 2011, Brazil was widely regarded as Latin America’s gold standard for economic development and social progress. But today, with his handpicked successor, Dilma Rousseff, facing an impeachment trial, the country is widely viewed as an economic failure.”
The article goes on to talk of Lula's 'success', which in hindsight seems to have been more of a failure.....all it needed was a hiccup to derail 'Lula the magnificent' and his puppet, Dilma.
....and the article goes on, putting the last nail in Lula's coffin, “as it is a model that, while relatively easy to implement when economic conditions are favorable, demands a level of political discipline hard to sustain when conditions sour”....the result of which (the Lula model) Brazil is reaping now.
And getting back to the main topic, the fact that the President of the PT (the slut Gleisi Hoffman) is inciting violence and saying “people will be killed” (..if Lula is condemned), is much the same as when Pablo Escobar used to threaten (and kill) anyone who got in his way...Looks like the PT is evolving from a criminal organization into a terrorist group, using it's armed followers - the MST, MTST and other radical social movements - to carry out its dirty work.
How/Why “IT” functions [does not function]: EXAMPLE:
Jan 20th, 2018 - 12:31 am - Link - Report abuse +1http://claudiolessa.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/escada.jpg
What a ridiculous twisted way of reporting Gleisi's warning, clearly she doesn't want anyone to be killed, isn't threatening killings and wants to avoid the explosive situation which she is warning against. Of course a lot of people could be killed, Duterte-style, if Jair Bolsinario the “Tropical Trump”, actually more fascistic than Trump, wins, and he's running second after...Lula
Jan 21st, 2018 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse -1@BK
Jan 21st, 2018 - 11:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“What a ridiculous twisted way of reporting Gleisi's warning, clearly she doesn't want anyone to be killed, isn't threatening killings and wants to avoid the explosive situation which she is warning against.”.....
Nothing ridiculous about it....IF you had - and obviously didn't - see her saying just that on live news, you might think otherwise.....She is pretty radical in the contents her pronouncements (in Congress, and out of), and the hate that seeps through is evident. Although I agree there is a possibility she doesn't 'really' want anyone killed, nevertheless its an attempt to intimidate the judges of the TRF-4. And the irony of it is that her declarations, her constant criticism of the judicial system, trying to politicize the trial, do just the opposite of calming people down...it just makes the situation all the more inflammable....and that is her intention exactly.
As to Jair Bolsonaro, I think his 'popularity' will fade as time passes, and hopefully a candidate from neither extreme gets in.
“As to Jair Bolsonaro, I think his 'popularity' will fade as time passes”
Jan 22nd, 2018 - 09:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0We can at least both hope for that...
@BK
Jan 22nd, 2018 - 02:33 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Despite the current polls (referring to the October elections) showing a certain polarization around the two extremes, I would like to think that Brazil is fed up with corruption, no matter who practices it, and which, if true, will require a relatively independent candidate, from the centre, and who has not been accused of corruption, to appear on the scene. Possibly a problem if such a candidate appears, will be 'fake news' to discredit him/her. Politics and decency don't go hand-in-hand.
“Possibly a problem if such a candidate appears, will be 'fake news' to discredit him/her.” Which is what some people see the scandal around Lula as being. And the trouble with the centre, certainly the unideological mush that is Temer's party (and interchangable parties like it), is that its the most corrupt sector of all
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 10:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why is everyone AGAINST the politicians; just because they ARE corrupt?
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse +1If EVERYONE is indulging in corruption; surely, there MUST be something GOOD about being corrupt!
https://i0.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Collor-candidato.jpg?resize=498%2C420&ssl=1
@BK
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To discuss Lula's trial, one needs to know what the specific accusations are, what proof was presented to back them up (documents - official and private, computer files, shady receipts to justify non-existent services and/or payments, mobile phone recordings, wiretaps, testimony etc....without having a good grasp on all that, people tend to resort to the defense that the trial is political.
But that makes little sense ; when the 'lavajato' investigation started, Dilma had barely begun her 2nd term, and Lula - at least officially - had made it clear he had absolutely no intention of running again, as he, as well as the PT, were convinced they were well on the way to be able to elect whoever Lula presented as a candidate for 2018.
So at the time, the investigations just went following the money trail, which led to Lula (through contractors OAS and Odebrecht), many high-ranking 'petistas', executives from PB, and now dozens of politicians, of all parties.....so how is it possible to 'invent' so many accusations, so many intricate details, after examining tons of documents and listening to dozens of people, crossing the information collected (plenty backed up by documents), and after completing the puzzle, conclude that the result simply does not exist..........that the billions that disappeared from PB (which just about broke the company), and reappeared in the form of bribes and political campaign donations in 2014, were of licit origin ??? why would executives plead gulity, if innocent of paying and receiving bribes?
As the case progressed, and Dilma's incomPeTence caused the crisis, the PT saw their chances of electing their candidate - whoever it might be - dwindle...thus the strategy to present Lula as a candidate, to insist on it in order to try to save his ass, and politicize the whole thing.
I don't think there is much difference between the ideological trends in Congress when it comes down to corruption.
@JB:
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When was the last time; when the Facts AND the Figures were expressly acceptable to the masses?
@DT
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 07:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0have you noticed that someone on here has consistently given my recent posts - only those which mention Lula or the PT - a negative point ? Could it be TH ?....what an a**h***.
But getting back to your question, I can't remember if they ever have been....the masses are incapable of understanding them, and are easily fooled.
@ :o))
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 08:41 pm - Link - Report abuse -1I guess your cartoon is a play on words with the name 'Collor', but what does it mean?
@JB
Yeah I have, but there's no point getting upset about it. Some of my recent ones had -6 or more, and most of them appeared all at once overnight. I doubt it's TH since it only started recently.
Your argument does seem somewhat convincing. When did people start suggesting Lula might run again, or did he suggest it first?
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 11:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“following the money trail, which led to Lula“. There is no witness, no signed incriminating documentation, nor audio recording. In short, there is nothing in the allegations that would lead to a conviction under civilised jurisprudence. But I’m sure the UNHRC will address those shortcomings more thoroughly after his appeal is denied.
To all The Supporters/Followers/Sympathisers/Faithfuls:
Jan 24th, 2018 - 10:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Pl. Don't worry - the Verdict is GOING To Be “Not Guilty”
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jan 24th, 2018 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0“ My recent posts - only those which mention Lula or the PT - a negative point ? Could it be TH ?..”
No, on posting this I will click the negative sign which will now give a total of two, proving that I hadn’t previously. So you’re the only asshole here with your false accusations.
“This week, that democracy may be further eroded as a court decides whether … Lula …, will be barred from competing in the 2018 presidential election, or even jailed.
There is not much pretense that the court will be impartial. The presiding judge of the appellate has already praised the trial judge’s decision to convict Mr. da Silva for corruption as “technically irreproachable,” and the judge’s chief of staff posted on Facebook a petition calling for Mr. da Silva’s imprisonment.
The trial judge, Sérgio Moro, has demonstrated his own partisanship on numerous occasions. He had to apologize to the Supreme Court in 2016 … The evidence against Mr. da Silva is far below the standards that would be taken seriously in, the United States’ judicial system.
The bribe alleged to have been received by Mr. da Silva is an apartment owned by OAS. But there is no documentary evidence that either Mr. da Silva or his wife ever received title to, rented or even stayed in the apartment, nor that they tried to accept this gift.
The evidence. José Aldemário Pinheiro Filho, who had his prison sentence reduced in exchange for turning state’s evidence., He was blocked from plea bargaining when he originally told the same story as Lula about the apartment. He also spent about six months in pretrial detention. ”
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/opinion/brazil-lula-democracy-
Due to the profound respect for the masses and an unshakable belief in the democracy; SOME of the Next Probable Steps could be:
Jan 24th, 2018 - 11:52 am - Link - Report abuse +1- Shelving/Shredding of ALL investigations
- Prosecution [Man-Hunt] of the Investigators, Judges, Promoters, Whistle-Blowers, Witnesses + ALL The Others who are even slightly suspected to be involved in accusing the “corrupt-innocent”
- Repentance of a few of the aforesaid accusors
- Freedom to The “corrupt-innocent”
- Compensations to the “corrupt-innocent” for being wrongly accused and for their unjust imprisonment
- Return of the respectability to the “corrupt-innocent”
- The sophistication [legalization] of corruption.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jan 24th, 2018 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse -1It is really gratifying when I have done my own legal analysis. Then find, that a reputable journalist from the esteemed NY Times echoes exactly what I’ve stated. Proving, that you who holds nothing but malice toward Lula, is shown for the second time to be an absolute liar. Thanks, for fashioning your own demise. Give them enough rope!
I really hope Hoffmann was wrong. Lula lost the appeal.
Jan 24th, 2018 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@DT:
Jan 24th, 2018 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse +2REF: Collor
Depending upon the point of view as The Best/Worst case scenario, Lula just MAY be behind the bars [or kicked out of politics] for a number of years. And while the blame gets gradually reduced with the passing of time; lo & behold - he'll be back on the streets, campaigning for the next election - just like Collor.
@DT
Jan 25th, 2018 - 02:46 am - Link - Report abuse -1Rest assured I'm not upset about the points...just mentioned it to register TH’s stupidity....his allegation “...there is no documentary evidence...”, shows how ignorant he is.
Lula only 'reinstated' his intention to run after Dilma was impeached...which was when he realized there was no more chance of halting the 'lavajato' investigation and that he’d better come up with some strategy to save himself.
Today, spent 9 hours glued to the TV, watching Lula's trial, live. The 3 judges presented their arguments impecably, citing the proof, item by item...one of them read a list of 20 items, from “A” to “T”, outlining the pieces of evidence. The trial moved a bit slowly at first, but it was presented in an orderly fashion, so that even TH should have been able to understand it...that is, if he is able to understand Portuguese, and if he accompanied the live transmission.
But of course, we must remember that TH is more familiar with the case than Judge Moro and the three collegiate judges from the TRF-4, and that if he, TH, had defended Lula, he would now be a free man.....but as it is, Lula now condemned 3 x 0, can still appeal, to the same group of judges from the TRF-4, who are unlikely to change their decisions ; so once the 2nd appeal is thrown out, if the letter of the law is to be respected, Lula 'could' go to prison - they might let him off, due to his age, but even if incarcerated, he can keep on appealing, until his case reaches the SC - but by then he will also have been declared inelegible by the TSE (Supreme Electoral Ct), based on the “Lei da Ficha Limpa” (Law of unblemished reputation), which states that no person who has been accused of corruption, and has been condemned by a collegiate court (2nd instance), can run for elective office.
BTW, at this writing my 'last' post has only ONE 'negative sign'....where's the 2nd one that TH said he'd give me, to PROVE he hadn't been the first ?? Careful Terry 'Pinocchio' Hillbilly.
@TH:
Jan 25th, 2018 - 10:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0FORGET the past - better days are AHEAD:
http://assets.izap.com.br/fetivestmg.com.br/uploads/noticias/cache/600-450-resize/Temerpontepalhaco.jpg
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jan 25th, 2018 - 11:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0“BTW, at this writing my 'last' post has only ONE 'negative sign’…”
At the time of that post I had so confirmed. Since they are now zero it now can only be because a couple of your slavish followers have nullified them by hitting the + twice. Since, I have never posted a deliberate untruth while yours are consistently untrue. It shows how totally how amoral you are in your attempt to place your unprincipled behaviour on others, Which is what someone whom is well versed in viveza criolla would practise when the truth overwhelms their sorry-assed opinions.
@TH
Jan 25th, 2018 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse -1What you disrespectfully - an attitude to be expected from you - call 'slavish followers' - are no more, no less, people with the capability of logical reasoning....something you have shown to be seriously lacking. “Pinochioooooo....”
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jan 25th, 2018 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Unlike you I respectively don’t have to lie or cheat to make my point which is the absolute essence of logic.
“The process is marked by “serious violations of the defendant’s rights.” Lawyer Cristiano Zanin Martins. “The prosecution has failed to prove a direct relation between Lula and any act benefiting OAS. Furthermore, the acts attributed to him occurred after 2010, when he left office – and Brazilian law states that corruption crimes require one party to be in the public administration… Federal Judge Sérgio Moro, responsible for the first conviction, shouldn’t have tried the case in the first place. Trials in Brazil happen in the city where the crime was committed – with some exceptions. All Operation Car Wash-related crimes are centralized with Moro, who claimed that that was Lula’s case. But during his decision, Moro himself said that the bribes didn’t necessarily come from Petrobras. “If the case doesn’t involve Petrobras, then Moro has no business judging it,” said Martins during a conference call.”
“The investigators have not made many mistakes during the almost four years since the operation was launched. However, most of the critical mistakes have occurred with the cases of Lula and his allies,” comments Mohallem
https://brazilian.report/2018/01/23/lula-trial-2018-election-sentence/
@JB
Jan 26th, 2018 - 12:33 am - Link - Report abuse +1Right now your posts are on zero again since I voted them up, but who knows what will happen by morning. I have seen my most innocuous posts get voted down and controversial ones voted up, so who knows.
“Unlike you I respectively don’t have to lie or cheat to make my point which is the absolute essence of logic.”
Confirming TH has no idea about logic at all.
His first link is broken also, I believe this is the correct version:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/opinion/brazil-lula-democracy-corruption.html
But is it true that:
“The evidence against Mr. da Silva is based on the testimony of one convicted OAS executive, José Aldemário Pinheiro Filho, who had his prison sentence reduced in exchange for turning state’s evidence. According to reporting by the prominent Brazilian newspaper Folha de São Paulo, Mr. Pinheiro was blocked from plea bargaining when he originally told the same story as Mr. da Silva about the apartment. He also spent about six months in pretrial detention.”
Demonstrator the slavish follower
Jan 26th, 2018 - 02:22 am - Link - Report abuse -2“Confirming TH has no idea about logic at all.” So it is your claim that to lie or cheat is the absolute essence of logic.. in YHO.
Philosophers connect sentences with various items, such as thoughts, facts and states of affairs. Thoughts are either true or false in an absolute sense, never both or neither.
Did you fail kindergarten 101?
“Children sometimes reason that if they can lie, they might as well cheat and steal too, and then lie about cheating and stealing. …” h ttps://www.loveandlogic.com/childhood-lying-stealing-and-cheating
“There's a Hole in my Logic, Dear Liza, Dear Liza Lyrics: … / I can lie just like you do / I can cheat just like.”
https://genius.com › C › Coleman Hell
@TH the ignorantly illogical
Jan 26th, 2018 - 12:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“So it is your claim that to lie or cheat is the absolute essence of logic”
Of course it's not, idiot. That's a false dilemma or fallacy of the excluded middle. I'm claiming that the essence of logic has nothing to do with lying and cheating at all. And as usual, your quotes have nothing to do with anything either. You've fallen to the point of quoting song lyrics as if they prove anything - talk about juvenile.
Demonstrator the slavish follower
Jan 26th, 2018 - 01:00 pm - Link - Report abuse -1You claim much but are more little shy evidentiary.
“Thoughts are either true or false in an absolute sense, never both or neither”
Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy; States of Affairs; First published Tue Mar 27, 2012
“Logic • the quality of being justifiable by reason: there seemed to be a lack of logic in his remarks.”
My comment is completely in accord with the dictionary’s ordinary accepted meaning. You can attempt all the esoteric head stands you wish.
You little liar. It doesn't mention lying or cheating at all in that definition; it supports what I said.
Jan 26th, 2018 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Go on, waste your time scouring the internet for a definition of logic that talks about those things. Even if you find one you'll have to ignore the other 99% that don't mention them and then twist its meaning to pretend to say what you want, but that is the kind of dishonest argument we've come to expect from you.
Demonstrator the slavish follower
Jan 26th, 2018 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“It doesn't mention lying or cheating at all in that definition”
That was my point that they were the antitheses of logic. “Logic • the quality of being justifiable by reason“ “I respectively don’t have to lie or cheat to make my point which is the absolute essence of logic.” So now you’ve just contradicted yourself.
That's the stupidest argument I've ever heard. You're literally claiming they must be the essence of logic because they are NOT mentioned in the definition. Well, it also doesn't mention painting yourself luminous pink or stabbing yourself in the eye, so according to your 'logic', they are also the antithesis of logic and not doing them is the absolute essence of logic.
Jan 26th, 2018 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is pointless. Either you're sadly too dumb to learn any logic or you're too arrogant bother, but either way it's a total waste of time to argue with someone who doesn't understand argument.
Demonstrator the slavish follower
Jan 26th, 2018 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“You're literally claiming they must be the essence of logic because they are NOT mentioned in the definition”
No! I’m not I stated absolutely that lying and cheating ARE NOT PART OF LOGIC. So You can be obtuse as you want in your slavish haste to support of an admired fascist.
More blatant lies. Your quote is right there above: “Unlike you I respectively don’t have to lie or cheat to make my point which is the absolute essence of logic.” You said not lying and cheating was the absolute essence of logic; obvious nonsense. That they are not part of logic is a very different statement, and actually true.
Jan 26th, 2018 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why don't you go and learn something about logic, then there is a small chance you might be capable of a sensible conversation about it.
PS. Who is your 'admired fascist'? I don't admire any, do you?
Demonstrator the slavish follower
Jan 26th, 2018 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Thats your sophism at work I have clearly stated that “I ‘DON’T’ have to lie and cheat as to make my point which is the absolute essence of logic.” Meaning it’s a prerequisite not to, as such conduct is both amoral, illogical and is something I have never done, or ever will
“Who is your 'admired fascist'? I don't admire any” Well you certainly do Jack Bauer as you have directly interceded on his behalf in an exchange between he and I.
Brazil's corruption scandals reach Lula da Silva: ...
12 Jack Bauer; “..'Military dictatorship', ..history is showing,.. that it was good for Brazil
Brazil supportive of Mercosur ...
14 Jack Bauer; ”.....but there is still one thing that can save Brazil...the Military..
Brazil waiting for 50bn dollars …
50 Jack Bauer; “Military taking over again, ….. they did it to prevent Brazil from being handed over to the communists. ... the Military , I hope, would be there again to save Brazil
Brazil remembers the 50th anniversary of the coupe…
15 Jack Bauer; “..Am pretty sure that military are accompanying all this … I hope they DO take over...”
So just keep slavishly sucking up as it’s your only contribution.
I hate to say it, but lying and cheating are not illogical at all - if you can get away with them. Just look at the politicians we've been discussing. Lying isn't even always immoral, if the question is “tell me where your friends are so I can shoot them.”
Jan 26th, 2018 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As to the rest, you are the only sophist around here Terence, pretending you didn't say what we all saw you say and that your quotes mean something they clearly don't. And I didn't 'intercede on behalf of Jack Bauer', I was just pointing out your usual stupid and contradictory statements, because I happen to care about truth and logic.
@TH
Jan 26th, 2018 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why do I 'have' to lie ? the facts, if not ignored, speak for themselves. If you are in denial because you love Lula, it's your personal problem.
@DT
Thanks for anulling TH's noxious opinions by voting 'up'. TH once gain, has to resort - unsuccessfully - to other people's quotes and dictionary definitions to defend what his imagination tells him must be true. Laughable. He loves to take phrases out of context, as if they proved his point....That only proves that he is arrogant and dumb - one of the worst combinations possible - and that you can't teach old 'idiots', new tricks.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jan 26th, 2018 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse -2“It is impossible for any defendant to conclusively prove that he does not have assets somewhere. Even if he were to succeed, a cynical prosecutor might say that this still does not prove that the defendant has not buried a parcel of cash or gold in the woods.”
Andrew Bodnar – Hidden Assets Talk
h ttp://www.matrixlaw.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/25_06_2010_12_47_15_HIDDENASSETStalk.16.10.08.pdf
“But what evidence did Lula's defence produce to prove he is not the hidden owner of the 'triplex’?”
“New Testimonies Confirm That Three-Story Apartment Is Not Lula’s”
h ttp://www.averdadedelula.com.br/en/2017/02/13/new-testimonies-confirm-that-three-story-apartment-is-not-lulas/
“Why do I 'have' to lie ? the facts, if not ignored, speak for themselves” You must be Argentinian since you’ve been proved a liar innumerable times by me. Why because your an unethical person. “Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Demonstrator the slavish follower
“Lying and cheating are not illogical at all” Speak for yourself since they are as far as I’m concerned.
“That your quotes mean something they clearly don’t” Thats merely your sophistic interpretation which doesn’t mean a hill of beans.
Like when showed the sum total of a prior ‘interpretation’ of yours: ”Your done like dinner revealed in your true capacity, devoid of any moral standing. A pathetic lying little troll.” http://en.mercopress.com/2017/11/30/ara-san-juan-since-falklands-conflict-buenos-aires-and-london-have-never-been-closer/comments#comment478590 The thread shows you in all your glory.
@TH the deeply deluded
Jan 26th, 2018 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +1“Speak for yourself since they are as far as I’m concerned.”
That just shows again that you don't understand what logic is. Cheating and lying are immoral except in a few rare cases, but they can still be perfectly logical. Go and look up logic instead of talking about something you don't understand.
And the only bad thing that thread says about me is that I'm a fool to have tried for so long to teach you anything. You're deluded and can't see the truth, and your insults are hilariously old-timey.
@JB
“That only proves that he is arrogant and dumb - one of the worst combinations possible”
Agreed.
Demonstrator the slavish follower
Jan 26th, 2018 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“You don't understand what logic is … Cheating and lying they can still be perfectly logical. Go and look up logic”
I did in my dictionary and it states: “Logic • the quality of being justifiable by reason” which by extension means the “cause of being right and reasonable” Which is the correct interpretation of logic as I had used it. So your sorry-assed misinterpretations are clearly revealed to all and sundry.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
“That he is arrogant and dumb” If that were true what does that make you as I’ve cleaned your clock. Shown your real political motives, proved over and over again that you are an abject liar.
Good lord, looking up logic up in the dictionary won't help. Find a manual and learn how to use it, because your 'arguments' are sorely lacking in both sense and logic. Have you heard of the Dunning-Kruger effect, Terence? You are too ignorant to understand that you are wrong, and too arrogant to listen to anyone who tries to explain it to you.
Jan 27th, 2018 - 01:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Demonstrator the slavish follower
Jan 27th, 2018 - 01:29 am - Link - Report abuse -1“Looking up logic up in the dictionary won't help” It certainly doesn’t you as it destroys your claim. These threads are all about the correct use of words. Words with their ordinary meanings are all the sufficiency I need.
You can stay with your whining and complaints as you can’t win on issues relying on sophism.
Stupid and arrogant, the worst combination. It's like arguing with a five year old.
Jan 27th, 2018 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Demonstrator the slavish follower
Jan 27th, 2018 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Stupid and arrogant, the worst combination. It's like arguing with a five year old.”
Fits you to a T, when you attempt to impose your own personal interpretation onto my post. Even when confronted with evidence of a dictionary definition that clearly shows you’re wrong and exposes your sophistry. It’s not the first time you’ve pulled this stunt, so I’ll keep on schooling you and exposing for what you are. http://en.mercopress.com/2017/11/30/ara-san-juan-since-falklands-conflict-buenos-aires-and-london-have-never-been-closer/comments#comment478590
@TH
Jan 27th, 2018 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Aside from all your other BS, “It is impossible for any defendant to conclusively prove that he does not have assets somewhere”, takes the prize. Is THAT your weak reason all you have to defend Lula ? the fact Lula can't conclusively prove anything is no surprise, as neither is the fact that it was easy to prove he does have “assets somewhere”...Guarujá, Atibaia....(and maybe even Punta del Este...where there is a mansion that “belongs to a friend of his”).
You base your arguments to deny the proof, on Lula's very own PT site...what do you expect those criminals to say ? not particularly credible.
And why refuse to believe the President of OAS ? or is he someone who has no clue what he's talking about, or that he wasn't the man who agreed to repay Lula for previous favours, with regards to getting 'lucrative' PRETOBAIZ contracts for OAS?
And then there is the Odebrecht testimony....and even that of ex-buddies of Lula's....but of course, the dozens of witnesses are all lying, only the 'toad' is telling the truth.
YOU never present facts. You present quotes, definitions and a lot of BS. But it's no use numbnuts, they won't change anything.
Just fyi, a rather 'awkward' situation caused by one of Lula's most fanatical supporters : Jose Guimarães, the PT congressman who a few years back was arrested at the airport with dozens of thousands of dollars stuffed into his underwear, published a photo in his blog, claiming that the hundreds of buses shown, lined up on a highway, were carrying PT followers, waiting to enter Porto Alegre, to give their support to Lula on the 24th January. As it happens, the OESP (serious, large circulation newspaper in Brazil), saw the photo and said it was taken (by them) over a year ago,showing the buses hired by thousands of “sacoleiros” on their way to Ciudad del Este.
Caught in a nasty little lie, Guimarães was forced to retract. You see, to defend Lula, the PT publishes only fake news. The same kind of $h*t you lap up.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-les
Jan 27th, 2018 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“It is impossible for any defendant to conclusively prove that he does not have assets somewhere” Doesn’t originate with me it is the opinion of an expert. He is just reiterating who bears the burden. Otherwise, Jack you’re an alien from Mars, you can’t refute it so you must be.
“Why refuse to believe the President of OAS?”
“It belongs to OAS Empreendimentos S/A that pledged, not only apartment 164 A but also other units of Solaris Building, as security for several financial transactions they made … The Guarantee Fund for Length of Service (FGTS) was the final payee of the transaction, which was managed by Caixa, in a transaction involving the purchase of bonds by said fund. Therefore, FGTS has bought OAS’s debt and one of the securities they received involved receivables resulting from a future sale of the three-story apartment.”
http://www.averdadedelula.com.br/en/2017/06/26/defense-reaffirms-oas-owns-three-story-apartment/
“There is the Odebrecht testimony”
“Marcelo Odebrecht, after acknowledging that official donations made to Lula Institute on which tax was collected, now wants to transform the same donations into illicit acts in order to compromise former President Lula.”
h ttp://www.averdadedelula.com.br/?s=Odebrecht&x=0&y=0
@TH
Jan 27th, 2018 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ah yes, I must be an alien from Mars.....stop embarrassing yourself....using Lula's 'fake news' site on which to base your silly arguments just shows what an idiot you are. I rest my case.
Perhaps Terry is an alien from Uranus?
Jan 27th, 2018 - 11:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0More seriously, I learned about Piaget's stages of development at university, and it is almost like Terence is stuck in an earlier stage with the way he always argues from authority and is unable to think for himself. The way he believes facts are something you look up in books is an example; it's how a child would understand it. An adult would know that someone wrote the book, and if they bother to learn enough about the subject should be able to understand how the author determined what the facts are in order to include them.
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