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Montevideo, August 18th 2018 - 23:55 UTC

Kellogg pulls out of Venezuela. Maduro promises to hand control of the factory to workers

Wednesday, May 16th 2018 - 08:53 UTC
Full article 16 comments

The United States based cereal maker Kellogg is pulling out of Venezuela because of the economic deterioration in the country. Workers said they were prevented from entering the plant in the central city of Maracay on Tuesday. The announcement comes ahead of Sunday's presidential elections. Read full article

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  • DemonTree

    It must be difficult for Maduro. The whole 'economic war' thing would be ever so much more plausible if the factory had closed years ago instead of today, and if the USA wasn't still buying Venezuela's oil. We know what real economic war looks like; there are no Kelloggs factories in Cuba.

    May 16th, 2018 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    “President Nicolas Maduro, who is standing for re-election, told a rally that he would hand control of the factory over to the workers.”

    Typical populist BS.......can imagine what will happen after he hands over the administration to the 'highly-qualified' workers....and presumably puts a Colonel in the position of company president.

    “We've begun judicial proceedings against the business leaders of Kellogg's because their exit is unconstitutional,” Mr Maduro told cheering supporters“...

    ”unconstitutional ?” the idiot has lost all sense of reality. If he were coherent, even in the slightest sense of the word, he would have banned all US companies from VZ long ago.

    He is totally lost and just says what he thinks the people want to hear.

    May 16th, 2018 - 04:24 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • chronic

    13,000 barrels in February?

    They're not trying to starve ole Nic - are they?

    Workers paradise!

    Long live the revolution!

    May 16th, 2018 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    “”unconstitutional ?” the idiot has lost all sense of reality.”

    Agreed. Trying to prosecute them for closing their business in the country is mad enough anyway, but if he thinks there's some kind of 'economic war' against Vz, why does he want multinationals there in the first place?

    To be fair, I suppose the fact the factory was able to survive until today means the economy is still functioning in some fashion. but things may be about to get much worse if PDVSA are unable to export their oil.

    May 16th, 2018 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    that's my point.....he says he hates the US and it is the cause for VZ's misfortunes, then he criticizes the fact that an American company chooses to get out of VZ. As I mentioned, he'll say whatever he thinks the people want to hear, even it contradicts what he may have said an hour earlier..(in that sense he is the same as Lula....and why they are great 'buddies'). He sewed disaster and now is reaping its results.

    May 17th, 2018 - 02:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • chronic

    Dumbass Tree still hasn't figure out that the maracaibo oil is totally insignificant to America.

    The U.S. is drowning in oil and gas.

    May 18th, 2018 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    I agree with you about Maduro then. And Chronic has missed the point by approximately 2000 miles again.

    May 18th, 2018 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • chronic

    No the point is on Dumbass Tree's head.

    The narratives that he tries to fabricate are just that - fabrications.

    Start with facts.

    Lol.

    May 18th, 2018 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    (a continuation.. :) “USA had the same *lack* of right to force mostly-repressive military dictatorships in Latin American countries”…strictly speaking, right, but boiled down to the instinct of survival, protect your borders 'n keep the threat as far away as possible.
    In Brazil there’s not much hate rhetoric against the US…don’t know about the rest of LatAm, but get the impression the 'hate' is restricted to a political minority, which uses it to distract the population from the real problems. Don’t believe the common man cares or even has a clue what the US does. Their interests /concerns are far closer to home.

    No way is the L J the cause of instability, the more radical left is…and Lula, with his insistence that he will be a candidate, perpetuating uncertainty in the heads of many, is not helping. I’ve said this before, and will say it again : PT / Lula are rooting for total chaos so that they can resurge as saviors (of the mess they created).

    I believe that any president can only build something “solid” if the infrastructure is there to support it ; industry’s problem is the lack of investor confidence - reduces jobs & salary mass, affects consumption etc...
    The politicians only get away with doing nothing - in this case nothing good - because the majority of voters simply don’t understand they are not being represented, at all...when will they realize that most in Congress are just interested in maintaining their status quo ?

    The agribusiness is highly successful, thanks to government not interfering, and is responsible for a significant part of GDP.

    “you're not who the police would be interested in, so you haven't much to fear”…. You hit the nail on the head, only the criminals have something to fear. The ‘favela’ residents, willingly or not, provide cover for the gangs. They can snitch anonymously, and do, but the supply of bad guys is endless. Brazil's armed forces fought in Italy in WWII, more recently were peace keepers in Haiti.

    May 19th, 2018 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    “protect your borders 'n keep the threat as far away as possible.”

    Probably, but like I said they could have fought communism in a better and less immoral way, like they did in (Western) Europe. By helping those countries recover from the war and building up their economies, it kept them from ever wanting to try communism. It's so hypocritical of the US to claim to promote democracy and freedom and then support dictators and train their militaries in torture.

    “No way is the L J the cause of instability”

    Has the government continued awarding building contracts as usual, then? Odebrecht and OAS are still building? There is no uncertainty around the bidding process from companies who have been used to paying bribes to get the contracts?

    As for Lula, it was banning him from standing that created the uncertainty, because no one else has a clear lead. Perhaps you prefer uncertainty to another certain Lula Presdency, but that's the choice.

    “industry’s problem is the lack of investor confidence”

    You're probably right, and recession is always chicken-and-egg. One thing feeds off another. Simplifying the laws might help, but no one seems interested in that.

    Re the laws, I found an interesting site comparing business culture in different countries, and I thought this bit was particularly relevant:

    “At 76 Brazil scores high on Uncertainty Avoidance – and so do the majority of Latin American countries. These societies show a strong need for rules and elaborate legal systems in order to structure life. The individual’s need to obey these laws, however, is weak. If rules however cannot be kept, additional rules are dictated.”

    https://www.hofstede-insights.com/country-comparison/brazil,the-uk/

    “only the criminals have something to fear.”

    I disagree. Policing Rio is dangerous work; if you look suspicious the police are not likely to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will shoot first and ask qestions later.

    Re the army, exactly. How many have even been shot at?

    May 19th, 2018 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    Can’t compare how W.Eu dealt w/ communism 'n how the military did here (only threat); Re WE,not only was it alrdy installed in E.Europe, but WE culture and manner in dealing with delicate situations in no way resembles Brazil…don’t expect similar solutions for similar problems.
    Regarding the US, can’t disagree. Perhaps now, the US will feel less strongly about imposing democracy in countries which either don’t want it or have never known it.
    Most of the construction companies involved in the Lavajato which pleaded guilty 'n cooperated with Justice/ paid huge fines, have been let off the hook, under a kind of ‘parole’. But it's hardly helping, as the government is hardly in a position to start contracting big projects.
    “As for Lula, it was banning him from standing that created the uncertainty, because no one else has a clear lead “ (???). You totally ignore he is a convicted criminal…think again. Most crooks, when they go to jail, disappear - but Lula puts himself above the interests of the country.
    AFAIC, and to anyone who's informed, election-wise Lula is dead….hopefully a majority of people has learned something about most of the politicians - who pretend to help them while sticking their hands in their pockets - and don’t repeat the mistake…but my expectations are low..
    “only the criminals have something to fear.”…I was referring to the 60s, but still disagree. Eventual “mistakes” committed by the police are usually in situations of extreme suspicion…as to intentional abuses, they're against criminals caught red-handed ‘n people stupid enough to react when accosted….but what makes the police overly aggressive at times is due to what they face on a daily basis ; “they will shoot first and ask questions later”: don’t know yr sources, but IMO it requires ‘more’ than just a suspicion.
    The study on culture comparisons is extremely interesting and could see what it points out exactly…which explains the 'differences'.
    Shot at, currently none..or very few.

    May 19th, 2018 - 10:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    With communism in E Europe there was surely a risk it would spread west, but the US didn't install dictatorships in Germany or Italy to fight it. And Europe was able to elect left-leaning governments aimed at helping the poor without America panicking. So why the different treatment? I'd say America's strategy in Europe was more effective, wouldn't you?

    “the government is hardly in a position to start contracting big projects”

    I suppose that's true, though it might help with the recession if they did. If the construction companies were let of the hook, does that mean they've continued to build whatever was planned/funded before the recession as normal?

    And you may not want another Lula presidency, but if he hadn't been convicted you'd be pretty sure that was what you were getting, and you'd have a good idea what it would be like too, as he's been president before. The point is you only have uncertainty because Lula is unable to stand, and if he did renounce his candidacy it would only make a difference if all his supporters switched to some substitute he chose.

    I reckon most people have learned something about the politicians; that's why the 'mainstream' candidates have such low popularity, but probably voters don't know where to turn. How can they possibly identify someone who isn't corrupt to vote for?

    As for the police, I was talking about the present day. I admit I am judging from incidents I have seen in America, but I very much doubt the poorly trained, poorly paid Brazilian cops do any better. It's exactly because of what the police face that they are trigger-happy - very understandable, but not much comfort if you're the one getting shot because you reached for your driving licence or ran away or accidentally did something else they interpreted as a threat. And it's easy to be seen as threatening if you fit their most common profile of a criminal (poor, young, black, and male).

    Do you think the description of Brazil on the site is accurate, then?

    May 19th, 2018 - 11:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    Don't think there was much risk ocommunism spreading to WE - the Russians were satisfied with what they took. Besides, US military presence in WE kept them in check. The left-leaning governments in WE were not communist - they focused on improving conditions, without restricting freedom.

    The govt's alrdy cut investments to keep basic services functioning, so no money (until the economy picks up, generating taxes), no projects - other than maintaining popular housing ones, as they solve the lack of housing 'n produce jobs for the less skilled.
    Most people know exactly what to expect from Lula - IF he ran - and that's exactly why he's in jail. Acting as he does, he's a destabilizing factor, not because of the 'uncertainty' whether he can run or not (in the heads of some), but the fact that his followers are intent on keeping the status quo...promoting chaos whenever they can, plus the fact Congress has all but stopped (elections). According to polls where Lula is excluded (the real situation) his possible substitutes are near to last (1% or 2% of the popular preference).

    “...identify someone who isn't corrupt to vote for?”.....1st, eliminate all the 'mainstream' candidates that are under suspicion or being investigated ; 2nd, check the history of those that are left, and/or the less known candidates - but there aren't many of the latter as most parties are pushing their mainsteam candidates ; the problem : the vote should be the result of a conscious choice, after checking the candidates' backgrounds 'n what they stand for...difficult, given the fact that most Brazilians are not conscious voters.

    The police in Brazil - present day, generally speaking - are the product of the social class they come from - they know they have to be every bit as bad as whom they are facing...the “trigger-happiness”, is a result of the perception that they can't wait to see what happens, to act. Think the US incidents are a bit different.
    The site's analysis is right on.

    May 20th, 2018 - 10:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    There wasn't much risk once the US military presence was in, and those countries had started recovering from the war with US aid. Immediately after WWII there was a civil war in Greece between the communists and government forces supported by Britain and later the US, and that was definitely a risk. Since the anti-communist side won, it stopped there, which probably helped convince the US of their 'domino theory'.

    And no, those governments weren't communist, though many were pretty socialist and nationalised lots of industries.

    “Most people know exactly what to expect from Lula - IF he ran - and that's exactly why he's in jail.”

    Presume you don't mean to imply he's in jail BECAUSE people know what to expect from him? What are his followers doing to promote chaos, anyway?

    And didn't you say there are 13 candidates for President already? That's a lot of people to investigate, and there's no point picking someone unless they are reasonably popular, or they won't stand a chance. Plus I presume you also elect congress at the same time?

    Who do you reckon is least likely to be corrupt, and who can be crossed off immediately?

    RE the police, I think the US is somewhat similar because everyone is armed, and the police have the same feeling that they have to shoot first or risk death themselves. They are even trained that way and told how quickly someone can pull a gun, and how fast someone can reach them with a knife, which just makes them more paranoid. In Brazil not everyone is armed, but the gangs sure are; they have better weapons than the police from what I hear.

    As I said, it's understandable why the police are trigger happy, but it means anyone who looks suspicious has something to fear, even if they are totally innocent, and petty criminals are at as much risk as the violent ones.

    I was surprised at some of the scores on the site, but the descriptions make sense. I tried comparing Brazil and Portugal, Portugal has even higher Uncertainty Avoidance!

    May 21st, 2018 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    “Presume you don't mean to imply he's in jail BECAUSE people know what to expect from him? What are his followers doing to promote chaos, anyway?”

    Of course not....his followers, mainly the MST (Lula's red army that followed him around to make up numbers at his rallys), go to the streets to protest anything that the PT might not like....not to mention the camp set up infront of the Federal Police building in Curitiba (which started with 500 when Lula was jailed, now only about 40)...they march down main avenues, blocking traffic and eventually breaking public and private property, block highways with trash and burning tyres, invade public buildings to disrupt govt work....

    I think there are 17 candidates, or 15, since Barbosa has given up...the election covers Congress as well. The only one, at the moment, that seems to be reasonably honest, is SPs ex-governor, Alckmin...but don't think he has much of a national backing...in SP, and probably in the South, he'll win ; up in the NE, it'll probably be some candidate from that region...

    DT , must close, the taxi has arrived (to go to airport)...see you....

    May 22nd, 2018 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Not much point replying, hope you have a good trip!

    May 23rd, 2018 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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