MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Bolsonaro in the process of purging some 3.300 federal staff allegedly communists or socialists
The new government in Brazil, headed by President Jair Bolsonaro, has initiated the process of firing any “communists” and “socialists” working as contractors in government departments contending those holding opposition ideological views cannot properly execute its goals. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesBanana republic.
Jan 07th, 2019 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse +1...Terrence Hill assured me that this is not true...
Jan 07th, 2019 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse -5Brazil is a vibrant democratic republic that popularly elected a Nationalist with goals and objectives that are contrary to the convictions of those on the unfortunate left.
The mismanaged country is making what are hopefully positive changes that are beneficial to everyone and advancing democratic justice.
“Brasil acima de tudo, Deus acima de todos.”
Is the “process of PURGING” = “VICTIMIZATION”?
Jan 07th, 2019 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The PT has not been government since April 2016. And now they discovered 3,000 PTs in the palace?
Jan 07th, 2019 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse -1It is interesting that the governors of the Northeast will copy the initiative and also check the social networks of the employees in positions of commission. Probably they will dismiss the “Nazis” who opened their ideologies on Facebook.
Where will we stop?
“Where will we stop?”
Jan 07th, 2019 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How far do you want to go? Chavez purged his opponents from most of the institutions - and it worked, his protege is still in power.
Bolsonaro should modernize Brazilian governance by embracing a social credit system similar to China where anti-ideological citizens are rewarded with internment into re-education facilities for non-violent Nationalist reorientation.
Jan 07th, 2019 - 02:19 pm - Link - Report abuse -3https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System
In any socially equable society that has democratically embraced a majority supported populist political direction, it is essentially for strict compliance by the masses. The political objectives of the many, far outweigh the non-compliant beliefs of the few.
“Brasil acima de tudo, Deus acima de todos.”
Again
Jan 07th, 2019 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse -1While the federal government resigns X petistas, the state governments of the Northeast will dismiss X10 from the right.
Brazil is a Federation. The Federal Government does not execute social policies, only outlines general directions. Executives are the state governments.
Brasileiro
Jan 07th, 2019 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But long ago, as you earlier hysterically warned the “dangerous right-wing” candidate was making promises that ... well he's now as President is actually doing...
It seems to be that although Bolsonario does not enjoy a political majority, he does hold substantial influence to make the leftists really miserable.
Weren't you making a declaration about joining the armed resistance and fighting the Facisist? Now you're declaring that the presidency does not have the power to radically change governance?
“Brasil acima de tudo, Deus acima de todos.”
In addition to persecuting people by ideology, tell me something good that happened in the first week of the 208 week long term.
Jan 07th, 2019 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe listen to this song ...
In addition to persecuting people by ideology, tell me something good that happened in the first week of the 208 week long term.
Maybe listen to this song ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ9rUzIMcZQ&index=5&list=PLd9auH4JIHvupoMgW5YfOjqtj6Lih0MKw
I did not say anything of what you say! Show
Brasil pátria armada
Brasileiro
Jan 07th, 2019 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You constantly make absurd leftist comments, for example:
(Note the second post you made...)
http://en.mercopress.com/2018/10/29/ultra-rightist-jair-bolsonaro-president-elect-of-brazil/comments
It's ok and safe to be a Marxist Socialist in Brazil. ...Bolsonaro just doesn't want them working for his government...
I do not wish to break the tradition. Brazil is peace. If any Bolsonist wants to make war against Venezuela, let him do it alone.
Jan 07th, 2019 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If Brazil is the invader ... I enlisted in the Venezuelan army.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDe6Vvgvf44&index=2&list=FLmXPTu1f8AdGlizWNiASx2A&t=46s
Brasileiro
Jan 07th, 2019 - 04:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I truly admire your progressive ideological passion. Enthusiastic Marxists will greatly welcome you to valiantly fight as a patriotic soldier for the glorious la Bolivarian dictadura de Maduro.
“Brasil acima de tudo, Deus acima de todos.”
Thanks!
Jan 07th, 2019 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Brasil Pátria de Iguais
”Bolsonaro (is) firing any “communists” and “socialists” working as contractors in government departments...“
Jan 07th, 2019 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How do they select those to be shown the door?
Do they ask contractors to flash their Socialist / Communist membership cards?
Or do they ask coworkers?
Perhaps they'll open a hotline ”snitch-on-a-communist?”
Do they (most probably) look at workers' FBs and the like?
Do they ask Chicureo, chronic, Jack Bauer and imoyaro who is a Commie? (Now we are talking expertise).
Señor Massot
Jan 07th, 2019 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse -1But Enrique, YOU are the supreme unparalleled expert of knowing who really are your fellow Marxists. Your expertise would me invaluable in ferreting out your Socialist Revolutionary comrades.
It's your ideology that we were taught that any socially equable society that has democratically embraced a majority supported populist political direction, is essentially for strict compliance by the masses. The political objectives of the many, far outweigh the non-compliant beliefs of the few.
“Brasil acima de tudo, Deus acima de todos.”
The hat's a dead giveaway...
Jan 08th, 2019 - 02:29 am - Link - Report abuse -2I love it when personal antagonism raises it's head in these discussions.
Jan 08th, 2019 - 12:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now if we can look at the facts behind the story we will see that those who are being SACKED only got their job by political appointment. They did not do any tests to verify their qualification for the job but instead were given the job, which in some cases was made for them, due to their association with either a political party or candidate. The jobs were never open to anyone else except the person who occupies the chair.
Glad to see them go.
The career public servants are now able to get on with their work.
I luuuv it when Anglo Turnip Opinionism raises it's head in these discussions...
Jan 08th, 2019 - 01:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now if we look at the FACTS behind the Anglo Turnip Opinionist just above... we will see that he offere no FACTS about those being SACKED only got their job by political appointment..., didn't do any tests to verify their qualification..., etc..., etc... etc...
As the case was in Argentina recently... most of the fired ones were career public servants,
with decades of public service..., replaced immediately by even more people associated with the new ruling political party or candidate...
Both are clear examples of political purges..., and any intent to present them as something else just demostrates the ignorance (or intentionality) of the presenter...
@DemonTree
Jan 08th, 2019 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse +1REF: “Where will we stop?”
The flamboyant Verbal-Gas has just begun. Please DO Hold-On - for a lot more!
https://i2.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Quadros-Bolsonaro-Presidentes.jpg?resize=580%2C420&ssl=1
For the first time in my life, I must admit a totally agree with Enrique Massot. I cannot believe that in a democratic system people are fired from public entities just for their believes. What's next? Being fired for being jewist or for being a “non believer”?
Jan 08th, 2019 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse +1@Think
Please, remember that to be able to work in Public Entities (even in the lowest ranks) during J D Peron's first and second presidency people had to be member of the “Peronist Party” otherwise you were not hired or simply fired from them. In addition he organized ideological and extremenly violent purges from leftist in the Unions in order to get them aligned with his fascist ideas.
pgerman
Jan 08th, 2019 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bolsonaro is actually doing what he campaigned on.. ...purging the ideological opponents is “the only way to govern with our ideas, our concepts and to carry out what Brazil's society decided in its majority,“
Why not embrace the SAME ideology that was previously practiced by the Partido dos Trabalhadores who originally appointed the positions?
Don't you find your outrage just as hypocritical and ridiculous as Enrique's? I find it hilariously ironic.
“Brasil acima de tudo, Deus acima de todos.”
“Why not embrace the SAME ideology that was previously practiced by the Partido dos Trabalhadores... ?”
Jan 08th, 2019 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think you answered your own question. It's not pgerman who's being hypocritical here.
DemonTree
Jan 08th, 2019 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm being pragmatic. Bolsonario is just purging some Marxist apparatchiks from the government.
It goes back to the political needs of the many, far outweigh the non-compliant beliefs of the few. ...I leaned that inevitable concept around 1971...
With an attitude like that it's you who should be moving to Venezuela.
Jan 08th, 2019 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Actually, their doing the same as every new government, everywhere does. Fires the contract workers from the previous administration. Since all permanent civil servants can't be fired for their political beliefs as they were hired solely on merit, the best exam marks for the position.
Jan 08th, 2019 - 05:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Terry
Jan 08th, 2019 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“...the same as every new government, everywhere does...”
“ ...everywhere...”
@Chicureo
Jan 08th, 2019 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did Piñera purge Chilean government employees when he took over?
DemonTree
Jan 08th, 2019 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You may be surprised, but since 1990 government workers have enjoyed employment stability, but that's because we've remained relatively moderate. Obviously, ministerial and political appointments change with administrations.
Brazil has made a 180 degree turn in its powerful executive republic power.
You should consult Brazilians how government positions were traditionally appointed there. Bolsonaro is purging the corrupt ideological far left because he knows they're dedicated to make his programs fail.
@Chicureo
Jan 08th, 2019 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, I was expecting you to say that. This sort of purge is an extremist position, note that centre-right Temer felt no need to do it after taking over from the PT.
Your government is moderate and has more sense. Changing ministerial and political appointments is normal, firing all contractors would be a pointless exercise in bureaucracy. Terry is being an idiot as usual.
DemonTree
Jan 08th, 2019 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Temer was a “bookmark” who wisely remained a neutral as possible and did practically nothing significant. (He's lucky so far not to be imprisoned.)
Brazil needs a 180 degree radical change, even though Bolsonaro does not have control of congress. They say “you have to break some eggs to make an omelet.”
It takes incredible mismanagement, corruption and criminally motivated politicians to squander the fabulous wealth that Brazil possesses.
:o)) provided an excellent link:
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-01-07/brazil-s-bolsonaro-brings-foreign-policy-revolution-says-araujo?utm_content=view&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&cmpid%253D=socialflow-twitter-view&utm_medium=social
TWIMC...
Jan 08th, 2019 - 09:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lets sumarize the current Brasilian political situation...
Firstly..., Jair Messias Bolsonaro has spend the last 30 years of his life being a grey corrupt politician of a grey corrupt political party on a grey corrupt poitical system... Hardly a man I would trust to give Brasil a “New start”...
In my humble opinion he will in the next four years destroy the lives of some criminals..., some lefties..., some blacks..., some indians..., some queers..., some dikes and any other weirdos he percieves as trash...
Not very much else...
Secondly..., Ex-President Lula is currently in prision because a ~U$S 600,000 apartment he...: Never owned..., never received the keys of..., never spent a night in...
https://www.businessinsider.com/ap-future-for-brazils-lula-hangs-on-apartment-in-decaying-city-2018-1?r=UK&IR=T
Thirdly..., President Bolsonaro is..., already today..., being investigated for a perfectly documented..., officially recieved and completely unexplain(able)ed ~U$D 300,000 payment made into his son's bank account...
www.france24.com/en/20181213-brazil-president-elect-bolsonaro-scrutiny-suspect-payments-family-corruption
Interesting times...
DT
Jan 08th, 2019 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Changing ministerial and political appointments is normal” Thats exactly whom I referring to, it's what their employment contract is since they're not professional Federal employees, who are protected .
“Who gets political appointments? Party loyalty and bureaucratic expertise in Brazil”
https://cienciapolitica.org.br/system/files/documentos/eventos/2017/03/who-gets-political-appointments-party-loyalty-and.pdf
The Oxford Companion to Politics of the World By Joel Krieger
@Chicureo
Jan 08th, 2019 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A 'bookmark' who did nothing significant? Now I know you haven't been paying attention. Temer changed the constitution to cap public spending for the next 20 years, and he completely overhauled employment law in Brazil. He also planned to reform the pension system, but was unable to thanks to the scandals surrounding him. Hardly a neutral placeholder!
@Think
Actually Bolsonaro has been a grey corrupt politician of 9 different grey corrupt political parties over the last 30 years. But hey, he did vote for Lula.
And I'm sure the right-wingers on here will explain how that payment is totally different and nothing like Lula's apartment, and Bolso totally doesn't belong in jail...
Thanks to Mr. DemonTree for correcting my previous simplification...:
Jan 09th, 2019 - 11:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Jair Messias Bolsonaro has spend the last (30)-thirdy years of his life being a grey corrupt politician for (9)-nine different grey corrupt political parties on a grey corrupt political system... Hardly a man I would trust to give Brasil a “New Start”...
@Think
Jan 09th, 2019 - 12:45 pm - Link - Report abuse +1REF: Hardly a man I'd trust to give Brasil a “New Start”:
- With your reasoning; one can't trust ANY politician!
On the other hand:
- If they are not in politics for stealing public funds; why on earth should they waste their time in politics?
- If the population is ignorant enough to elect them; why shouldn't the politicians exploit the masses?
THINK:
http://prosaepolitica.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/charge-otario-eleitor.jpg
TWIMC...
Jan 09th, 2019 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Usually..., I try to avoid any interaction with Turnips as Brasilian poster ”:o))” just above...
Just want to express me deep wish that he would avoid referring to me and clarify that that unreasonable reasonament about politicians is his..., not mine...
@Think
Jan 09th, 2019 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Is it up to everyone to trust [believe in] each & every politician - judging from what you imply? :o))
“Bolsonaro in the process of purging some 3.300 federal staff allegedly communists or socialists”
Jan 11th, 2019 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Brazilian Constitution
“viii – no one shall be deprived of any rights by reason of religious belief or philosophical or political conviction, unless he invokes it to exempt himself from a legal obligation required of all and refuses to perform an alternative obligation established by law”
http://english.tse.jus.br/arquivos/federal-constitution
Terrence Hill
Jan 11th, 2019 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Hey, but did you not indeed earlier say that the Bolsonaro government was doing a perfectly normal change of appointed positions. Minority opinion means nothing when the the ruling government CAN fire appointed Marxist-Socialists correct?
BTW: Did you by chance see the news about Supreme Court Justice Ruth Ginsburg... also Amy Coney Barrett... ...interesting times!
Chicureo the flamer
Jan 11th, 2019 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“Hey, but did you not indeed earlier..” That is correct as is shown in “Who gets political appointments? Party loyalty and bureaucratic expertise in Brazil”
If he attempts to purge the permanent bureaucracy, then in theory, they should be protected.
Though the abridgement of Lula's Constitutional rights was permitted. Which is why the UNHRC has issued it's findings.
”former President Lula da Silva, recognised internationally as a political prisoner”
http://www.brasilwire.com/army-high-command-meets-lula-stays-in-jail-who-is-running-brasil/
- Lula rots in prison.
Jan 12th, 2019 - 02:00 am - Link - Report abuse -1- Bolsonaro is legally and Internationally recognized President of Brazil
- Marxists are frightened as they should be
- Brasilwire is a Communist propaganda site
Chicureo the flamer
Jan 12th, 2019 - 03:17 am - Link - Report abuse -1“Brasilwire is a Communist propaganda site” Says one of the 2% of the populace that own 65% of arable land. Who as a class engages in the reactionary practise of “indirect vote buying, which usually takes the form of employers selling the votes of their employees. This can occur when the employment relationship involves rents since employers can use the threat of withdrawal of these rents to control the political behaviour of their workers. This increases the demand for labor and generates an added incentive to own land, increasing the price of land. ... Nowhere is the evidence about landlord control of elections so conclusive as in Latin America. .. In Chile the control of voting by landowners was very frankly discussed in the debate ”
Land and Power: Theory and Evidence from Chile Jean-Marie Balandy, James A. Robinson
https://eml.berkeley.edu/~webfac/emiguel/e271_s06/baland.pdf
Whereas, Brazil Wire's own declaration.
“We are progressives and, although we have no direct connections, we generally support all left-of-center Brazilian political parties, including the PT, PC do B, PSOL and PCB. More important is our solidarity with the “Popular” or “Poor People’s” social movements such as the MST, CMP, FLM, UNMP, MTST and MNLM, and the Brazilian labor unions and labor union federations such as CUT, CTB, UGT and CONLUTAS. We also support feminism, GLBTI, Indigenous and Afro-Brazilian rights.”
Terry
Jan 12th, 2019 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse -1First, you attach a bullsh*t Berkeley University leftist outdated paper that's full of bullsh*t slanted and erroneous information. In short, a dog's breakfast.
Secondly, you clearly show Brasilwire's “about” statement that clearly proves its a. Communist rag.
Good work Terry boy!
Chicureo the flamer
Jan 12th, 2019 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse -1It's duly noted noted that you fail to deny the truth of the assertions, just a measly complaint that the source is biased. So you stand revealed as what they claim such a person as you are. A reactionary exploiter, and denier of your fellow citizens human rights, thanks for the confirmation.
Terryboy
Jan 12th, 2019 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Meanwhile while my family exploit our fellow citizens with decent jobs with good benefits:
- Criminally convicted Lula rots in prison.
- Bolsonaro is legally and Internationally recognized President of Brazil
- Marxists, like you are frightened as they should be
- Brasilwire and all the other crap you link are from Communist propaganda sites
By the way, Justice Ruthie still in the news, along with her replacement Amy...
Chicureo the flamer
Jan 12th, 2019 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“Meanwhile while my family..” A self serving statement or the academic findings as shown by Berkeley University, Chilean government studies and many contributors? “.. at APSA, Yale, Boston University, the Universidad de Los Andes, LSE, MIT, Montreal ... and Stanford, particularly ... the CRED for financial support and the Belgian Program on Inter-University Poles of Attraction initiated by the Belgian State, Prime Minister's office, Science Policy Programming. C.R.E.D., Facultes Universitaires Notre-Dame de la Paix, Belgium. Harvard University, Department of Government,”
“Criminally convicted ...” Which is why the UNHRC has issued it's findings.
Sarah Cleveland, vice-president of the UN Human Rights Commission, has condemned statements made by Brazilian officials following the UN's determination that the state should “take all necessary measures” to allow Brazilian presidential candidate Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva to “exercise his political rights” as a candidate in the October presidential elections. Speaking in an interview with swissinfo.ch Cleveland said the measures put forward by the Committee are “legally binding.” “The precautionary measures issued are not recommendations, they are legally binding and impose an international legal obligation on Brazil to fulfil them,” she said.
Cleveland went on to say that the Geneva-based commission “has no interest in the results of the elections, only in the right of everyone to participate.” But warned that “failure to comply with the precautionary measures would mean that Brazil would be violating” international treaties to which it is a signatory. The UN Human Rights Commission issued the decision on August 17,2018.
”The evidence ..is far below the standards that would be taken seriously in the US”
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/opinion/brazil-lula-democracy-corruption.html
Terry
Jan 12th, 2019 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse -1You are your own worst enemy...
...your “facts”are completely ridiculous...
Your government and university studies are bullsh*t also.
-The UNHRC issued it's laughable non-enforceable findings.
...Meanwhile...
- Criminally convicted Lula is rotting in prison.
- Bolsonaro is legally and United Nations recognized President of Brazil.
- Supreme Court Justice Ruth Ginsburg is taking time off for Olympic training.
Chicureo the flamer
Jan 13th, 2019 - 12:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0“You are your own worst enemy...” Every study, governmental or academic refutes your self-serving opinion. The facts tend to support that you and your ilk's contribution to “50% of children 15 and under suffering from malnutrition”
Lula is now, because of his human rights violation, both a 'prisoner of conscience', and a 'cause célèbre' in the world at large. Brazil is just another banana republic human rights violator.
According to some nutcase ignorant village idiots...
Jan 13th, 2019 - 01:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Chicureo the flamer
Jan 13th, 2019 - 02:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0“According to some nutcase ignorant village idiots.”
That is only true if your existence is in a rural environment, the old yokel locals.
Whereas, those apposing your interpretation are urban sophisticates from some top rate universities.
They are experts while you are a bona fide rube.
@Brasshole
Jan 14th, 2019 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“PT has not been govt since April 2016. And now they discovered 3,000 PTs ?”
Not exactly...everyone knew they were there....just couldn't fire them...until now..
@EM
“How do they select those to be shown the door?” EASY...get the non-petistas to indicate who the commies are. Like the commies would if the shoe was on the other foot.
@MarkWhelan
“Now if we can look at the facts behind the story we will see those being SACKED only got their job by political appointment..” Exactly. A bunch of highly-paid petistas who “donated” 10% of their paychecks to the PT....parasites.
@Stink
“we will see that he offers no FACTS abt those being SACKED only got their job by political appointment”...Stink, it's a notorious fact. Look it up. Under Dilma these “comissionados” (political appointees or contract workers) numbered 100,000 (in Ministries/other govt agencies)..they can be fired because they did not qualify for the civil service by passing competitive aptitude exams, through which they (“concursados”) acquire stability 'n cannot be summarily dismissed...only if accused/convicted of a crime...But tell me Stink, what would you do as director, knowing several of yr 'unqualified' employees were trying to screw you ? ah, of course, YOU'd promote them.
Yr Brzln summary is somewhat innacurate, as is yr link of a R$ 1.2 million payment to Flavio Bolsonaro....
@:o))
These 100,000 jobs, (not all occupied by petistas, but most totally unnecessary) still cost US$ 3.5 billion/year...there were 20,000 under FHC, which doubled in Lula's 2nd term, 'n under Dilma increased to 100,000. In 5 yrs Lula created a dozen govt agencies, to accomodate friends 'n supporters, not to mention the tithe collected by the PT. Sounds political to me.
@DT
Asa he took over, Temer DID get rid of petistas appointed by Dilma. Stink's link to an alleged payment of R$ 1.2 million to B's son, isn't true. Afaik, it's R$ 600,000, 'n refers to Flavio's ex-aide's (Queiroz) biz movement. Slightly fake.
@JB
Jan 14th, 2019 - 07:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As announced, B is firing people solely for their political beliefs, Not because they aren't needed, not because of their job performance. He's not getting rid of all contract workers, just the ones who support the opposition. Firing people on the basis of beliefs rather than competence is bad management, and purging state employees is the sort of shitty thing wannabe despots do (compare Chavez).
@DT
Jan 15th, 2019 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“As announced, B is firing people 'solely for their political beliefs' ”......well that is “literally” what the left would like people to believe...“just” because of their 'political beliefs', altho relevant in a way, is not 'entirely' correct.
First - be honest - how 'cooperative' d'you think a civil servant would be if the new govt philosophy goes against everything he believes in ? a 'clean-out' is essential to remove those who don't share the same views.
Second, these civil servants, were (politically) indicated by the PT, to create 'n fulfill (1000s of) positions where support of the PT ideology 'and its projects were important - which today are contrary to govt interests. Not to mention they were an essential part of the PT's elaborate structure to turn a blind eye to, or to facilitate corruption.
Third, if they were 'political' indications, not only but mainly to favour friends of the PT ('n other left-wing parties) 'n to collect 10% of their salary mass for the Party (tithe), 'n in the majority of cases unqualified (or not necessarily qualified) to do the job, why d'you think their being fired is “Not because they aren't needed” ? These “comissionados” increased five-fold from FHC to Dilma, 'n you still think they were /are essential to make govt run efficiently ? Not by a long shot, as proved.
Don't you think that the billions spent on these parasites could be put to better use ? (i/o favouring the party, used for education, healthcare ?)
Call it what you want : purge, unfair, anti-left, bad management.... but the fact is these “comissionados” in the Fed govt form part of the corrupt govt elite, who are taken on by the 1000s only to ensure that 'Party' objectives are met. They ARE unnecry, unless of course, you consider the PT's tithe.
Trying to compare this to what happened under Chavez, is unrealistic. And just fyg, that is exactly what Lula did when he succeeded FHC in 2003, only difference being there were far less to get rid of.
“how 'cooperative' d'you think a civil servant would be if the new govt philosophy goes against everything he believes in ?”
Jan 15th, 2019 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think most people would do their jobs, just like we do in the private sector. That's the whole point of having a civil service; the ministers decide policy and the civil servants implement it. If they didn't do their jobs it would be worse for the country than nearly any policy a sane government would propose, and also *then* they'd be at risk of firing.
All the other issues you mentioned would be better addressed directly. If staff are unqualified fire them for that, if there are more than needed then have each department make some redundant based on who is most useful. Or if they were taken on for projects the new government doesn't approve, then end the projects and lay off all the staff.
But you're in Latin America, where the common pattern is to fire supporters of the old government and then install your own loyalists in their place. B has done step one, whether he continue with step two remains to be seen.
BTW, do you have a link to Temer or Lula firing supporters of the previous government? I googled but couldn't find anything. May be impossible for Lula due to lack of internet in 2003, but there should be something about Temer.
@DT
Jan 15th, 2019 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Be realistic....first, but not my point, is that many civil servants here only go into the service because of stability, full pension etc, they aren't known to be as 'dedicated' as those in the private sector, who can easily be fired. My point is that these people were appointed for political reasons, which are contrary to the interests of the new govt. These people, mostly petistas, 'would keep on doing their jobs', almost certainly sabotaging Bolsonaro.
The objective of the UK civil service is to attend the population, not party interests - but not here. Am not discussing this from a point of view of 'good' or 'bad' for Brazil, but of what is real. When will you realize this ?
As to the other issues : if appointed to a newly created, or an existing job, in order to attend Party objectives (support the party, pay the tithe), how qualified do they have to be ? Things here, work VERY differently to our private sector, and also to the UK.
And why did Dilma need 5 x as many “commissioned” workers as FHC ? No need to reply, the answer is obvious.
This practise, good or bad, necry or not, is bound to happen when ideological differences are so great, to the point of influencing the way people do their jobs....
I asked Stink what he would do - I know he won't answer, but if he does it'll only be to contradict me - but what would you do, if elected to Congress, 'n all the “commissioned” workers in your cabinet, appointed (politically) by your predecessor ('n not career employees), were right-wing 'n did not like the left ? you can be honest....
Re Temer, google “Temer terá 10 mil cargos ocupados por petistas para oferecer a aliados”
Didn't find anything on Lula firing FHC's commissioned workers - probably didn't have to, as comparatively very few, 'n FHC was also left-wing - but you can google “Folha de S.Paulo - Dispara criação de cargos de confiança no governo”, to see how he expanded their numbers during his govt.
As THINK says:
Jan 15th, 2019 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“...in the next four years destroy the lives of some criminals..., some lefties..., some blacks..., some indians..., some queers..., some dikes and any other weirdos he percieves as trash...”
I don't believe (with the exception of some criminals) he will destroy the lives of anyone. They will however need to seek new employment.
@JB
Jan 15th, 2019 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”what would you do, if elected to Congress, 'n all the “commissioned” workers in your cabinet, appointed (politically) by your predecessor ('n not career employees), were right-wing 'n did not like the left ?”
To be honest, you'd be better off asking Think, since the presidential system of government is very different to the parliamentary in this area. From the news, I gather that many jobs that would be done by career civil servants (promoted on merit) in the UK, are political appointments in the US, who are always, or almost always replaced with a change in president. Sounds like a bad idea to me, but whatever. So my answer depends on if you mean this politically appointed staff, or ordinary lower level workers who happen to lean right or left. From the article I understood B is planning to fire the latter, probably based on such things as social media profiles.
The article on Temer was very informative. Assuming the translation was accurate, it was the PT who told their members to quit rather than work for an 'illegitimate government', not Temer who fired them. And Temer was expected to hand the jobs out to his allies in order to ensure support, instead of making cuts. So there's an answer to your question: Dilma created those jobs to hand out to other parties in order to gain their support in Congress, as well as to benefit her own party. FHC was centre-left so had more natural allies among the many centrist parties, and anyway didn't try too hard to implement the social programs he promised.
And obviously, if the PT workers had all obeyed this instruction, or Temer had fired them all, then there would be none left for B to get rid of (reason I was sure Temer had not purged every PT supporter working for the gvmt).
The remaining question is whether B really plans to make cuts, or to do the same as Temer and hand the jobs out to his allies. Hopefully the press will report on this, despite his threat to withdraw advertising from those who criticise him.
@JB
Jan 16th, 2019 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “These 100,000 jobs.......... Sounds political to me”:
Precisely THAT's why I was told that:
- If they are not in politics for stealing public funds; why on earth should they waste their time in politics?
- If the population is ignorant enough to elect them; why shouldn't the politicians plunder the masses?:
# 1: The masses - ignorant, illiterate + of easily malleable mental disposition - are a huge blessing from The Almighty; to the politicians!
# 2: Why shouldn't they explore & enjoy such a great opportunity, specifically when the miserable ignorants themselves on their own, are begging and imploring to be exploited [raped - economically]
http://prosaepolitica.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/charge-otario-eleitor.jpg
@Chicureo
Jan 16th, 2019 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Those who've had their prospects in life suddenly snatched away can just join the navy, right? (Assuming they're not banned.)
@DT
Jan 16th, 2019 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Forget Think, he's not interested in anything except stirring up the shit.
What you call “ordinary lower level workers who happen to lean right or left”, are NOT political appointments - but career workers who entered the service based on merit (passing exams), have stability, 'n are relatively 'untouchable'.
The “political appointees” - indicated by party leaders to favor friends/ parties - occupy higher echelons of govt ('n State-owned cos), are not necrly qualified, which isn't important as what counts is party loyalty. These parasites can, 'n will be fired.
”...understood B is planning to fire the latter (lower level worker)...” No. Besides being UNable to (simply) fire them (remember their 'stability' ?), they don't participate in decision making, 'n only look after daily bureaucracy.
Re the Temer link, says he was replacing the key-positions with people he could trust (which excludes all petistas) ; By crossing information fm TSE registers 'n the Govt's “Portal of Transparence”, those affiliated to the PT were easily identified ; PT's nat'l leadership recommended that 'petistas ' who remained in higher positions (mostly political indications) leave the Temer administration, which they considered 'illegitimate'.
“Dilma created those jobs to hand out to other parties in order to gain their support in Congress, as well as benefit her own party.”....'n you think that's correct ? BUY support, using OUR money ? corruption ?
Replacement of key-positions in the top echelons of government (just below the Ministers) always occurs, people form their own teams, with those they trust, but when govt becomes bloated with parasites, to attend mainly party interests, something is seriously wrong.
Think B will fire all petistas who were politically appointed, including those in 2nd/3rd echelon posts, specially the left-overs fm PT admins (only appointed to gtee party interests), then fill the 'essential' positions, with people he can trust.
The article said only contract workers will be affected, since career workers can't be easily fired. So it depends what contract workers means; in my previous team some people were employed on fixed term contracts rather than permanent, it's common enough here, done by companies and the public sector for flexibility - so that is what I was imagining. Not political appointees involved in decision making.
Jan 16th, 2019 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But it sounds like you agree with Terry(!), he said firing workers appointed by the previous government is normal in America. But then, why do they need to look them up in this transparency portal, rather than just firing anyone appointed by Dilma? And why didn't Temer do it already? Shouldn't B be getting rid of Temer's appointees? Or was it because Temer took over as VP and was meant to be a continuation of the previous government?
Besides which, how can 107,121 employees possibly be political appointments? The US has 4,000 according to Wikipedia, of which 1,200 require senate confirmation, and that's already ridiculous! What a waste of time and talent, throwing everyone out of their jobs after 4 or 8 years and then having to find and interview new people. I don't see why it's necessary for a presidential system to do things this way.
And as far as I can see, the article didn't say Temer was replacing Petistas with people he could trust, but handing the 'positions of trust' out to allies to ensure their support:
“At first, Mr Temer said that if he took over the Presidency, he would cut the number of ministries considerably. Today the conversation is another, because he knows that he will need to accommodate all those who are supporting him in these folders, in positions of trust.”
“'n you think that's correct ? BUY support, using OUR money ?”
No, but it's a fault of the system, and you'll need to reform it to solve the problem. Otherwise why is B only firing 'socialists and communists', instead of getting rid of ALL the extra jobs created by Dilma?
DemonTree
Jan 16th, 2019 - 11:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Chicureo
“can just join the navy, right”
No, because the Brazilian Navy is strictly a merit based organization predicated on sailors/cadets to enter young in training.
If Bolsonaro however reinvigorates the economy, jobs will be available for many.
The Usual Bullsh*t from the WHO which Bolso refuses to believe in:
Jan 16th, 2019 - 11:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2019/01/16/air-pollution-the-greatest-environmental-risks-to-health-says-who
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