Friday, June 4th 2010 - 01:26 UTC

Argentina planning to develop nuclear powered vessels for the Navy

Argentina is seriously considering incorporating nuclear powered vessels to the Navy and constructing topsides for naval ships and oil rigs. However this will have to be developed with Argentine technology, said Defence minister Nilda Garré.

Defence Secretary Nilda Garré on the path ‘back to rationality’

“We want to recover those scientific, technological and industrial capacities Argentina once had; Argentina can’t be left out of the development of technology and the technological edge we had in the region”, said Ms. Garré during a meeting with the local press.

All these projects and drafts are currently being addressed by the Scientific and Technical Defence Research Institute, Citidef and the Argentine Naval Industrial Complex, CINAR working from the Tandanor shipyards, “managed by government, but self sustainable which means they are in no way subsidized”, added Ms Garré.

The minister also went through the agenda of current projects which come under the umbrella of the Defence ministry: the Gradicom PCX missile which was recently successfully tested; the refurbishing of the TAM tanks (Medium Argentine Tanks) originally with French technology and developing nuclear powered vessels for the Navy.

Making a review of her last four years Ms Garré said the “path back to rationality” has been paved by a clear political leadership of the forces under strict civilian control and a planning phase based not on “conflict hypothesis” but rather in capacities and deployment, with the emphasis in research and developing technologies.

“When we first arrived (four years ago) we came across an anachronic and very backward scenario but on the path to rationality and political leadership of Defence I think that towards the end of the year we will have designed the medium and long term military instrument”, said Ms Garré.

Finally the Defence secretary said these policies have been defined working with a Joint Chiefs of Staff with all forces included, which means improved planning, better use of human resources both in number and qualifications, “all closely geared in support of the scientific and technological development recovery of the armed forces logistics”, which was dismantled (by military internal politics) and also exposed to the negative effects of some national policies.

Ms Garré made the statements accompanied by her ministerial cabinet and the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
 

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1 Nicholas (#) Jun 04th, 2010 - 03:17 am Report abuse
“technological and industrial capacities Argentina once had”
yes, had, and that wasn't even 100% argie technology, but from European immigrants, mainly Germans. Funny,they still failed by time...Laugh.

Can someone please tell me from where those anxients copy cats (che idiots who are getting nervous by their neighbors) are going to get the money from to develop those nucluer powered vessels? I suspect the poor argies are going to pay higher and heavy taxes in the comming years for borrowing more money to “create” nuclear vessels to invade the Falklands? Laugh...
2 jerry (#) Jun 04th, 2010 - 04:28 am Report abuse
Do not worry where the money is coming from, as this will never happen. It is a typical government “announce and talk”, but never “do”.
3 jorge! (#) Jun 04th, 2010 - 08:42 am Report abuse
1 Nicholas, you developed many things in 40's thank to germans, idiot!!!!

We have money right now. Yo should be worrying not to burn yourself in Florida with BP oil.....Laugh.....
4 Rhaurie-Craughwell (#) Jun 04th, 2010 - 10:24 am Report abuse
“Nuclear powered vessels”

If only Argentina's democratic aspirations were as advanced as it's technological ones....
5 fredbdc (#) Jun 04th, 2010 - 11:51 am Report abuse
Pipe dreams, they can't even keep the lights on in BA!
6 khh (#) Jun 04th, 2010 - 01:33 pm Report abuse
you develop those nucluer powered oil rigs then sell them to the very rich Falkland Islanders. Because they are going to need as many as they can get there hands on to get that oil out jajajajajajaja!!!!!!!!!!!!!! binx
7 Hoytred (#) Jun 04th, 2010 - 01:49 pm Report abuse
Now, KHH, I'd have thought ONE would have been enough! After all Argentine troops are not renowned for their bravery!

And with a lot of oil, the Falkland Islanders should be able to afford at least ONE !

Bye bye Argentina :-)
8 globetrotter (#) Jun 04th, 2010 - 03:27 pm Report abuse
Seems rather strange to me...economy a mess, many people on the verge of starvation, many places without clean drinking water, many places have run out of LPG, price of firewood has gone through the roof, many staple foods unavailable or disappear as soon as they are put on the supermarket shelves, in some places you are limited to the quantity you can buy, petrol prices almost unafordable, no prospects of employment- particularly for the younger generation, a health service which is just that - two words but, theres money for experiments and expansionist projects.
9 agent0060 (#) Jun 04th, 2010 - 06:07 pm Report abuse
I'm curious about the nuclear powered oil rigs!!
10 recke (#) Jun 04th, 2010 - 06:28 pm Report abuse
Just take a look: www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/may/02/nuclear-submarines-defects-valves
11 thorson (#) Jun 05th, 2010 - 01:52 am Report abuse
why would you tell the world about your military plans? correct me if im wrong but isnt that a bad millatery tactic?
12 Sean (#) Jun 05th, 2010 - 02:53 pm Report abuse
Globettroter is not seeing how argentine economy have raised at chinese levels in the last years. In che's country, you can choose between free and public education and health and a private system. Public education is ranked as the best in South America.
Many U.K citizens are studying their postgraduate programmes there without paying a penny, and the out-of-food shelves at the supermarkets, mentioned by Globetrotter, was an issue at the time of the 2001's crisis.
Now, see Spain, Ireland, Italy, Greece and of course the UK, in an economical, financial, and corruption crisis.
13 globetrotter (#) Jun 05th, 2010 - 04:04 pm Report abuse
#12. Dont know where you live but, where I live, not too far from a major city, water rationing was imposed for several months in the summer, (not for the first time) many towns had no clean drinking water and we still have no clean drinking water because the municipalidad has no money for reserve filters, or how do you explain the brackish liquid coming out of the tap ehh? Public education costs very little true, private education is beyond the means of all but a small %age of better earners, as for the public health system..there is just no comparison with european, US or even chinese standards for that matter, unless of course, youre a top earner and can afford to pay for a health insurance plan. To try and compare our economy with china is a broma macabra amigo!
14 NicoDin (#) Jun 05th, 2010 - 05:56 pm Report abuse
@globetrotter

I just wonder were you do live Globe? May be in Disneyland?

Shortage of energy and water supply is all over the world since decades ago especially in big cities due to lack of infrastructure, planning and investment.

From US to all European countries in California (US) the water coming from the tap is brown you cannot drink at all, in Italy in so many parts like Liguria has chronic shortage since ever and the water in contaminate.
US
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21494919/

www.alternet.org/water/82378/

www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/15/national/main568422.shtml

UK

business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_resources/article1813006.ece

www.farmersguardian.com/experts-warn-of-major-uk-water-shortage/24284.article

Italy

www.irc.nl/page/2177
www.progress.org/water17.htm
www.energyonline.com/Industry/News.aspx?NewsID=6503&Northern_Italy's_Water_Shortage_Threatens_Power_Supply

About health service, you don’t know other health service systems I’m sure of that in Europe you can find good health service system (free from the Estate) like in France or Switzerland (Good) and second tier system like in UK and complete free rubbish like in Italy or Spain.

Italy is ranked 2nd after France in the WHO but really sucks is full of dirties hospitals lack of infrastructure and personnel and a lot of bureaucracy And its system is based on tackle illness rather than prevention.

Italy

www.euronews.net/2007/01/08/italian-police-ordered-in-to-inspect-dirty-hospitals/
www.nytimes.com/1994/11/08/world/italy-s-public-health-care-system-is-doing-poorly.html

UK
www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/dirty-hospitals-to-be-named-and-shamed-680950.html
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-483791/Health-Secretary-Fine-dirty-hospitals-extra-midwives.html

According with you none of these countries had experienced growth since the have these issues
15 jorge! (#) Jun 05th, 2010 - 08:13 pm Report abuse
14 NicoDin, you are wasting your time, the guy who you talk to is someone who is always talking about the bad things of Argentina. He will tell you he is an argentinean and he has an apartment in Puerto Madryn, but just ask him to talk in Spanish, you'll see he is very good at it, but not too much to come across as an argentine.
16 Nicholas (#) Jun 06th, 2010 - 07:02 am Report abuse
sean che idiot,
you can choose between free and public education and health and a private system.
Nothing is free, free education or health care doesn't exist you idiot. You clowns are paying high European taxes for third world services. The private section in the socialist of che idiot republic is very small compare to other latin american nations like Brazil, Chile or even with Peru who beats you. Private schools are for the majority way to expensive.

Public education is ranked as the best in South America.
Laugh, same rhetoric you che idiots believe before the crash in 2001. Matter of fact, Argie land is worse than your small neighbor Uruguay, it's lower than Chile, and in most Brazilian States who has the best schools/universities private and public in Latin America. Second, the UN numbers are funny, because they use the numbers they get from, yes read carefully, the governments..oh yeah..they are so trustworthy..specially from Argentina. Truth is and you clowns know that, Argentina lacks the engineers, entrepreneurs (small population) and lacks government leaders who cares about the rule of law and leave the private sector alone. Protectionism/Crony Capitalism what is a reality in Argie land, destroys the country. Everyday you fall behind without seeing the truth, your neighbors are rising and taking your productive land over..mainly by Brazilian corporations who're growing faster than ever, and and and, the ones you fear the most, Corporate America. So keep up the good work, keep spending time on crazy rhetoric, soon you che idiots will fall back hard on earth and face the harsh reality, again. Argentina, the land that is rich by natural recourses, controlled by foreigners, and poor people full of hot air populist Che socialist patriotism following their corrupted leaders. Comes close to the joke I heard from the Brazilians and Uruguayans who proudly distance them from you clowns...“Argentina is a Rolls Royce driven by Egyptian cab driver”..... LAUGH :D
17 gdr (#) Jun 06th, 2010 - 10:56 am Report abuse
Argentina is like a Honda Accord driven by our higly skilful team
( their names are not known by public)...here is the reality ..

Argentina :

total external debts ..in 2002 ..152 % GDP ....in detailes ..
Banks : 13 %GDP ,, Companies : 52 % GDP ,, Public : 87 % GDP .

total external debts ... in 2009 .. 37 % GDP ... in detailes ...
Banks : 1.5 % GDP ,, Companies : 16.5 % GDP ,, Public : 19 % GDP.
---------------------------
Interest Rate Charges / GDP ..in 2002 : 3.8 % ,,,, in 2009 : 2.2%.

total Public Debts / GDP ... in 2002 : 167% ,,,,, in 2009 : 49 %

total external Debts/ exports ...in 2002 : 300 % ,,,,, in 2009 : 82%.
-------------------------
we would teach anythings... not free ...!!
18 fredbdc (#) Jun 06th, 2010 - 11:49 am Report abuse
gdr, Defaulting on debt doesn't mean your economy is getting better, are you that stupid? Plus all of your debt numbers are growing again, you learned no lessons and the 30%+ inflation will doom your economy. CFK has stolen all of the hard cash in the country and is desperate for more external loans to fund next years campaign. You must be brainwashed to think living in a country that has 10% unemployment, 30%+ inflation, price controls and import/export restrictions is somehow a model to emulate. Can you even afford an Asado today?
19 gdr (#) Jun 06th, 2010 - 01:24 pm Report abuse
fredy ! your comment is not true ( 30%.. CFK ....etc) at your opinion !
my advice for you that don't read misleading media news much,
be more deeply data hunger please !
20 fredbdc (#) Jun 06th, 2010 - 02:01 pm Report abuse
gdr, You are right the international media has it all wrong and the government of Argentina is telling the truth. You are embarrassing yourself.
21 gdr (#) Jun 06th, 2010 - 02:27 pm Report abuse
fredy ! calm down please ..

i had said all about media which national + international...
i am not for Government(s)...i don't vote ( never voted for anyone)..!

Economy ,as a science contains datas basis not any making gossips...!!
but you can interpret on indicators...
22 globetrotter (#) Jun 06th, 2010 - 03:26 pm Report abuse
For the first 3 years of her education, I sent my daughter to a convent school. It cost me 300ARS each month. The standard of education was dismal. Now she attends an English college where I pay 1700ARS per month. The standards of education, and school facilities, are comparable to any middle school in Europe. I made the choice to give her the benefit of good education against state education offering nothing. Last week, went to the local supermarket with my wife. Among other things on the shopping list was milk...on the shelves, no milk. Wanted some yoghurt...2 choices available take it or leave it. At the meat counter wanted a joint of beef...50ARS / kilo and limited to 5kg per sale. Also last week, got 4 tons of firewood delivered- price? 2000ARS. Needed a replacement 35kg gas bottle for the stove...none available until some time next week maybe...went around trying to find someone who could deliver gas. After driving around for 200km finally found someone to deliver gas. Strangely enough, they did deliver the next day. Running a car means you need insurance. Price of insurance premiums=same as Europe. Wife went to her local bank to make enquiries re a small business bank loan. After a lot of hmms and haaas the best offer was 14,7%APR...Thank you, I will not bother. Medical insurance / obras social costs 1.5% of declared earnings. Better not get ill. Thankfully, were insured by different means. If you take into consideration a well above average salary of 5-6000ARS /month, you live within your own 4 walls as a family of 3, run a car, you need: approx 3000ARS/month for food, 900ARS to run the car,500ARS medical, education, another 300ARS taxes doesnt leave a lot for anything else. Consider the average wage of 2-3oooARSfor a reasonably skilled person with the same outgoings. Consider those who work on a 30ARS /day basis. This is a large number of people with no prospects of any sort. These people are on the verge of starvation who suffer poverty...
23 agent0060 (#) Jun 06th, 2010 - 04:28 pm Report abuse
I'm still waiting for a response about nuclear-powered oil rigs!!!!!!!!!!!

See, I can use multiple exclamation marks as well.
24 arquero (#) Jun 06th, 2010 - 06:30 pm Report abuse
globetrotter ## I'm from Turkey
you declared the living standart numbers are almost same as in
Turkey , all Europe , USA,......

here in Turkey ; --think it has the World's 12.biggest economy --,
meat/kilo = 15- 18 US $ , per litre oil(car) 18 US $- half of tax-,
private schools (annual) = 10000 - 15000 $... expensive prv.hospitals....

do you like yoghurt ? it is Turkish origin food ..Yoghurt=Yoğurt
in Turkish ; yoğurmak =to kneading.

We eat it in everyday ,I would suggest how to eat it healthy .;
- you may prefer to eat with any sweets to avoid gas,
- you may drink by mixing water ( ayran) then it makes relax sleeping.

Saludos...
25 NicoDin (#) Jun 06th, 2010 - 10:16 pm Report abuse
@Nicholas & globetrotter

You live in the countryside do you?

So compare the same services with Europe and US countryside.

To make an example you should compare where you live with places like this in UK or Europe not with Paris, London, NY, or whatever.

UK
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/7273516.stm
www.countrysidematters.org.uk/countryside/rural_poverty.html

These places in Europe and US are very, very poor, luck of education, infrastructure and you cannot choose nothing at all.

So please tell me where are you living so we can make a fair comparison against similar places in Europe and US or whatever you want.

And by the way I will tell you something that my fellow European mates told me when I was complaining about so many things in Europe. “If you are not happy here why you don’t go back to Argentina” thing that of course I did and I’m very happy now.

Being an immigrant is always a quite difficult task to accomplish. Ask the Mexican in US or the African in Europe you should compare your situation with them so you can have a fair picture.

Think about it.

Regards,
26 Rhaurie-Craughwell (#) Jun 06th, 2010 - 11:18 pm Report abuse
So Nicotine rather than face an intriguing other side of Argentina painted by Globetrotter you immediatley go on the offensive and start using negatives examples from the UK and US (surprise surprise!).

Just come out with it man, is there any substance to what Globetrotter states?
27 NicoDin (#) Jun 07th, 2010 - 12:41 am Report abuse
@Rhaurie-Craughwell

Of course there is. Make a fair comparison and you will see.
Has an African or Mexican in US or UK in the countryside access to the same level of life than Globetrotter & co in Argentina?

This is the comparison where is the “offensive and start using negatives examples from the UK”

You should compare potatoes with potatoes and not with kiwis. Do you understand the concept? I hope so.

And if an American or British is not happy with our style of life, economy, health service, political system or whatever, etc. They always can go back home, as far I know none is keeping them here by force. Do we?

And again from your delirious of persecution “negatives examples from the UK and US”, well this is the path you take for comparison mate, not me.

I don’t know why you point as “offensive” since when the truth is “Offensive” mate?

I don’t feel offended because you post all that crap about Argentina so why you feel offended when I post true facts about UK and US?

In fact I would be glad you post more crap so we can compare with UK and US would be fantastic I have a lot to show you. Like this

www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkXXwq0h6qc&feature=related
www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqyU2z-FJr8&feature=fvw
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md85Pr68ctQ&feature=related

This is what your wonderful education, economic system and society is best good making, lets say young criminals is not wonderful?

By the way their English is not quite good at all. Your education system has something to do with that?

Regards,
28 Nicholas (#) Jun 07th, 2010 - 06:18 am Report abuse
”Argentina is like a Honda Accord driven by our higly skilful team
( their names are not known by public)“

Laugh, argies here are truly che idiots. Hey gdr, those ”highly skillful team” are sooo secret that they don't exist...mmm..i suspect they ar illegal aliens from mexico (they look like che) or the Kirchners them self with their magic wand and a Honda civic made in Argentina or a cheap copy from china, ..LAUGH.
29 arquero (#) Jun 07th, 2010 - 07:39 am Report abuse
globetrotter ## correction ...(18 US $ is meat price)
perlitre oil ( 95 octane) -> 3.62 TL = 2.40 US$ =9.6ARS
price = rafinery price 31% + company share 7% +
consumption tax 46% + VAT 15 %

I buy at cool time ( mornings or nights) to have more density
in the same volume .

Nicholas ## do you live in this planet ?
of course secret teams steer almost everythings.
Honda is more qualified car than American ones.
30 gdr (#) Jun 07th, 2010 - 10:02 am Report abuse
www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/5148
31 Rhaurie-Craughwell (#) Jun 07th, 2010 - 10:20 am Report abuse
So nicotine I ask again is there any substance to Globetrotter's claims?

And here's my personal two pence about Argentina's economy and development the normal international definition for poverty or state of economy is the infant mortality rate Argentina's is nearly three times larger than the UK's? How do you explain and how does that? It's even lower than the US's. That would imply Nicotine that money is not going were it should do, or that the money just isn't there?

Ps thanks for the religious link about countryside first? perhaps you should check your sources before picking and choosing the ones from google which support your pre disposition bias and dislike of any British and American?

To emphasise my above point: I typed poverty in Argentina, It came up with www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW8TBKZws04
www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDKeQ4IACJ4
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV5OGsyOcPw&feature=channel (the old indigenous question rears it's head again)

and 291 other hits, I am sure If I typed it in Castillian I would get alot more.

I don't know about you, but I don't remember seeing a Argentine gap year project come and build a well my back of beyond residence in rural invernesshire?
32 fredbdc (#) Jun 07th, 2010 - 11:00 am Report abuse
gdr: That is one very small indicator and not it doesn't prove that your economy is getting better. All it proves is that through government redistribution of wealth that the poor are slightly closer to the wages of the lower middle class. Redistribution of wealth doesn't mean anyone is getting richer it mean everyone is getting poorer, that is what Socialists don't understand, and is why Argentina a has gone from 1st World to 4th World in 2 generations.
33 agent0060 (#) Jun 07th, 2010 - 10:38 pm Report abuse
STILL waiting for an answer about nuclear-powered oil rigs.

No response from khh. Has he gone away or just died of embarrassment?
34 NicoDin (#) Jun 08th, 2010 - 12:12 am Report abuse
@ Rhaurie

Fine Rhaurie you still appealing to image from 9 year ago but what amaze me is who the American girl is so shocking “to see this kids this time” in I don’t know here while she cannot see the 3er world in US close to her nose.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnnOOo6tRs8

www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8mCPNhEjEs

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zDtajMzH9w&feature=related

About you death rate “development the normal international definition for poverty or state of economy is the infant mortality rate”:

This show nothing as I can say the same for mortality birth rates

UK birth rate 10 deaths/1,000 population (July 2010 est.)

Argentina 7.39 deaths/1,000 population (July 2010 est.)

So UK is less developed because has more deaths in births due to poverty issues like low health service quality or whatever I can make up like you do.

UK has the highest rate in the world of child in poverty more than 3.5million at the moment.

My dear friend I know UK and I see a lot of poverty like in Perú in some places especially in northern England child prostitution, crime, drug abuse and despair is the most common thing you can find there.

You are like these people calling George Galloway denying poverty because the are clean.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjHuhgY-AcQ&feature=related
35 stick up your junta (#) Jun 08th, 2010 - 06:12 am Report abuse
The fact remains nicotine,that your army cant fight its way out of a paper bag,and that mate is why you will never set foot on the falklands
36 gdr (#) Jun 08th, 2010 - 10:18 am Report abuse
fredy(32) !!

let's look at USA example :

Average Personel Income gains in between 2002--2009 in US :

Bottom 90%.....$ 1.490......increase rate : 4.7%
Next 9% ........$ 15.122.....increase rate : 10 %
Elite 1% .........$ 352.652....increase rate : 42%
Most Elite 0.1 %.....$ 2.115.834.....increase rate : 58%
----------------------------------------------------
per capita National Income growth rate in between 2002--2009 :

Bottom 90% of Households .....10%
Elite 1 % of Households......232 %.
----------------------------------------------------
US Households' Personel Savings :
in 1982 : 12% GDP............in 2009 : 1% GDP

US Households' Debts :
in 1982 : 60% GDP............in 2009 : 138 % GDP.
37 LegionNi (#) Jun 08th, 2010 - 10:33 am Report abuse
34 NicoDin “My dear friend I know UK and I see a lot of poverty like in Perú in some places especially in northern England child prostitution, crime, drug abuse and despair is the most common thing you can find there.”

Nicodin the above statement is laughable. Where in the North of England have you actually been?

Oh and please don't tell me you can only back up this laughable claim with YouTube videos.
38 fredbdc (#) Jun 08th, 2010 - 11:03 am Report abuse
gdr, what is your point? How does US wage growth have anything to do with Argentina falling apart?

Nico: Take a stroll next to Retiro and see the poverty in ARG, there is nothing like those slums anywhere in the US or Europe. Please stop using You Tube to try to prove your point, it just shows how ridiculous you are and 3/4 of the time the videos have nothing to do with the conversation.
39 Rhaurie-Craughwell (#) Jun 08th, 2010 - 11:06 am Report abuse
Nicotine thank you for proving my above point, I wasn't trying to make a point about poverty in Argentina, merly fishing around and proving and how easy it is for anyone like yourself blinded by unfortunate bias to selectively pick and choose which material you want to use and discard which material is uncomfortable for you to view, as demonstrated by your already defensive manner when confronted

And stop pulling infant mortality rates out of your arse mate! HAhaha never seen such bull in my life, I know you practice selective information to appease your pre-dipositioned bias but that has to take the biscuit! Here are the REAL figures as set out by the UN and the CIA world factbook: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate

Do you see were Argentina is? somewhere at 70 with a figure almost double to what you stated!

Are you sure your not comparing the UK's figures from the 1990's and what you wish to believe is Argentina's figures?

As for child poverty in the UK being the highest in the world? What rubbish what figures? Is this worldwide, in europe, developed countries? or compared to developing countries are you describing real or actual poverty? Come on mate a bit more accuracy, or are you again selecting and editing figures to suit your arguments?

As for Northern England tis poor, but as poor as some of your poorest areas? I think not, the poor of northern England are comparable to your middle classes in terms of income and everyday items, in fact probably more.

Now back to the original question does Globetrotters claims that water sanitation is bad and that it is a struggle to find even the most basic goods and taht hospitals are in shit state and the education system is medicocre, have any substance? Yes or No answer please no squirming!
40 zethe (#) Jun 08th, 2010 - 02:29 pm Report abuse
Rhaurie-Craughwell has a point here. What we might class as poverty would seem middle class in most country's.

My mother can't work because she has a very bad back and chromes, so she's on disability benefit. She has a 2 bedroom house in a nice area with Cable TV internet and a wide screen tv. She is still classed as “poor”.

I very much doubt that poverty in Argentina is comparable to it is in Britain.
41 NicoDin (#) Jun 08th, 2010 - 02:53 pm Report abuse
@LegionNi

Well I was in Manchester and Birmingham, among other Is that not the north? Or you would prefer North west, West Midlands, etc?

Well research on your own statistics and you will find the level of child in some places like M&B range from 33% to 40% www.communities.gov.uk/corporate/researchandstatistics/statistics/

And here a person in complete denial like you that says that he can feed 5 kids with 30/40 pound a month ($199 pesos arg). And he believes that there is not poverty, is not amazing? In Argentina poor receive $180 for each kid what would be $900 for 5 kids at month (160 pound a month) as extra income. Can you explain me that please?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZxK89nYByw dear George will answer for me, haha

@ fredbdc

US has the level of poverty like Africa just 15 blocks outside of New York, LA, Chicago, etc. where do you live in a burble? How do you call this people living like dogs outside LA? Rich?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGfHyOg4eVo&feature=related

You live in a complete state of denial as I showed you before when you said that Argentina did not helped US and didn’t send food medicines and our “White Helmets” to US soil. Do you remember? Just in case here last post en.mercopress.com/2010/05/15/brazil-furious-with-argentine-scare-practices-threatens-trade-retaliation#comment8795

US has 60m people living under the line of poverty, people that cannot afford basic needs like health service, food, potable water, education, etc.

So according with the manipulates figures of the US Census Bureau people under line of poverty is 13.2% and guess what is exactly the same as Argentina 13.2% so mate or we are both rich or we are equal poor. What fit best for you? I choose the second with is more realistic.

BTW welcome to the 3er world mate lovely you joint us.

See you later.

@Rhaurie
Read it again I said mortality rates 7,39 Arg. 10 UK
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_death_rate
And yes they are..
42 zethe (#) Jun 08th, 2010 - 03:17 pm Report abuse
This where i again say, there is a difference between what poverty means in your country compared to the UK.

Just a simple google check shows the dramatic differences, People who work and still have to go to a homeless shelter to eat every nigh, people eating out of trash:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vJLrvGpJjg
www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_q-7ilLgF8

I'm not debating the levels and percentages of Poverty in each country. What i'm saying in different country's poverty is different. Some places poverty means not being able to eat, have somewhere to live or have your children in education. In the UK This is not usually the case. “Poor” People are given houses, Money to live, free health care and education up to college level.

You can EASILY see the difference between a poor person in the UK and Argentina from these documentary's.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rmaEW3qIU0
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsLH2HUS1e8

LOL @ Your last post. You said CHILD Mortality rates. Lmao, just...lmao, Classic.
43 LegionNi (#) Jun 08th, 2010 - 03:32 pm Report abuse
41 Nicodin “Well I was in Manchester and Birmingham, among other Is that not the north? Or you would prefer North west, West Midlands, etc?”

Manchester is the North, Birmingham isn't.

So what you are saying is thay you have been to one Northern city and you feel that makes you expert enough to say that child prostition, crime, drug abuse and despair is the most common thing you can find there?

Having been to both Manchester and Birmingham on many occasions I can safely say you are talking out of your arse.
44 globetrotter (#) Jun 08th, 2010 - 04:11 pm Report abuse
#25 does valle de punilla in the province of córdoba tell you anything? Córdoba is argentinas second largest city, within its industrial base, there is a gas liquification plant but, for the love of money, you cant get LPG anywhere. Considering that the vast majority of households use LPG for heating water, and/or cooking, there are a hell of a lot of rural and small town people cooking in their gardens...just like 3 of my sisters in law do. By the way, theres no sugar in the supermarkets either.
45 fredbdc (#) Jun 08th, 2010 - 04:48 pm Report abuse
Nico: Why would we have 250K ILLEGAL Argentinians living in the US if it wasn't a much better place to live? I am glad the Argentinians are here to wait on us, clean up after us and mow our lawns we need them.
I never said we don't have poor people, we do, they live much better than the poor in the Argentina but who cares? I love our capitalist society and it allows for and requires a bell curve strata of society.
Also as I said before about the UN vs Argentinian forces is the same as in the last msg. You understand the difference right?
46 NicoDin (#) Jun 08th, 2010 - 06:33 pm Report abuse
@ zethe

The poverty is not the difference else is the press you hide what you do don’t want to see.

I saw with my own eyes, kids begging on the streets and in the hard winter sleeping on the streets Rough Sleeping you call.

I can see how marbles is in UK
www.youtube.com/watch?v=gO7ZGUWQsGI&feature=related
www.youtube.com/watch?v=tliZvDUhCa8&feature=related
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpk8IKHFiEQ&feature=related
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U2dqF07qVM&feature=related

The fact that you don’t see them is not equal to that they don’t exist.
I have to agree something with you, you are better organized because you have several crisis 70. 80. 90, etc.
In Argentina is something relative new from the 90 and the collapse of 2001 but you will see how UK will end up like a large Shantytown in the coming years.

@ LegionNi

You are blind of you should get your head from the box, mate.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR5o1-KeGq4&feature=related
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzJeWAX6ydk&feature=related

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IZ-z3ZS_qI&feature=related

Dugs
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBjI0iRY1cw

I’m and expert? Certainly not, but you sure live in fantasyland.
SYL.

@fredbdc

You stupid question has a stupid answer like: And why there is so many American living illegally in Argentina crossing to Uruguay each 6 month? And they are doing jobs we don’t want to do.
Do you live in burble?

I understand you don't, they are Argentinean peace keeping forces that collaborated with UN with Headquarter in Buenos Aires, and paid buy us, leading by us, etc. Even Mr. Bush understand that why you don’t? He congratulated Mr. K for the help not UN are we the UN?
montevideo.usembassy.gov/usaweb/paginas/598-00EN.shtml
www.cascosblancos.gov.ar/autoridades/index.htm cascos blancos = white helmets
SYL
47 Rhaurie-Craughwell (#) Jun 08th, 2010 - 08:53 pm Report abuse
HAHAhaha Nicotine fail! I said said child mortality rates, the annual populations death rate is hardly an indicator of anything!

So were agreed then the child mortality rates of Argentina are an indicator that in your fluffy world nothing is quite what it seems?

Back to the original question does Globetrotters allegations have any substance to them, pleae nico yes or no and without the fanatical need to use Youtube every second sentence!
48 fredbdc (#) Jun 08th, 2010 - 09:24 pm Report abuse
Nico: No I don't live in a burble don't know what that is. Anyway if you know the difference between the UN and Argentinian forces you know that there have never been Argentinian flagged soldiers in the USA.
Also there are estimated 35K LEGAL US citizens living in Argentina but I doubt there are there waiting on tables or cleaning pools. Doesn't really make much sense when our our poverty wages are equivalent to your doctor wages does it? Ig uess that is why we have Argentinian doctors working as janitors here.
49 zethe (#) Jun 09th, 2010 - 12:16 am Report abuse
I lived in Birmingham for two years, wales for a year and a few other smaller city around the midland areas, as well as London for 15 years. And i have never seen a child begging for money on the streets..

Most of the people(This will sound a tad racist, but it's bloody true) who come and beg for money seem to be Arabic looking women who usually have about 4 kids with them.

Granted i do see the odd homeless guy but it's not often for me personally(i don't know about other Britons, and i don't live in a nice area). The thing about homeless people is they usually end up on drugs, and the moment you get a drug or alcahol habit in the UK, they give you a house(in fact, quicker than someone without a drug problem.)

In fact, I've never even heard of a child sleeping rough. I myself have been made homeless on three occasions(when i was younger, and lost jobs. Couldn't afford rent.) And each time i was given accommodation the day i went into the center(Hostels). Under 25 you are usually given instant accommodation.

“but you will see how UK will end up like a large Shantytown in the coming years.”
What gives you that impression? I just can't see it. There is no evidence to make anyone except an idiot(you) think that. The homelessness we have currently is just what all country's have nowhere is pefect, it is not a result of our country taking a bad turn(Like Argentina, as you said.).
50 NicoDin (#) Jun 09th, 2010 - 06:00 am Report abuse
@ zethe

Wow mate, a lot of explanation to show what?

A poor Briton doesn’t count because he/she does not qualify to your preferred ethnic group?

Well UK is full of African, Asian and Amerindian groups what can we do about it? We don’t count them?
They are Britons and you have to count them as we do with the illegal immigrants.
May be I’m an Idiot as you said but that will not change the outcome of Britain, you don’t realize the real state of your country. Do you?

How will afford UK to keep all benefits for housing, income support, unemployment benefits, etc. and pay the huge debt in the same time? Cut is equal to less benefits, less jobs, less everything, etc.

In some regions of UK especially in north, west, east of England govt. expending counts for 50 to 60% of the economy. Can you imagine what would happen when MR. Cameron starts to make big cuts?

Of course you don’t feel the pain now you will see it in the comings years.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLweYa0TaPI&NR=1
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDVG64fAcdM&feature=related

www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXTEe63BVEg&feature=related

And of course I’m an Idiot and you are so smart. But the time will prove how much idiot I’m and how smart are you.

SYL

@ fredbdc

Argentina is not like your country to be a doctor, lawyer, architect, engineer or white is not a premium or guaranty that you will end in a job with a high salary. Argentina is full of doctors, architects and lawyers.
A forklift or truck driver earns more than a new received doctor, lawyer or architect.

We have 1 doctor in medicine for every 193 inhabitant.
1 lawyer every 200 inhabitants
In Buenos Aires there is 1 dentist every 121 inhabitant
Forecast for 2013 will give 1 Architect for every 500 Inhabitants higher rate in the world.
51 stick up your junta (#) Jun 09th, 2010 - 06:40 am Report abuse
And no doubt nicotine one to one psychiatrists
52 LegionNi (#) Jun 09th, 2010 - 07:39 am Report abuse
Nicodin - Every time you post something from YouTube you just weaken any arguement you come up with. Anyone with a video camera can post on YouTube, which means they can be selective about what they film. The do not show the whole picture.

If you think YouTube can be used to show an accurate representation of anywhere in the UK or for that matter Argentina than you are a fool.
53 Rhaurie-Craughwell (#) Jun 09th, 2010 - 10:54 am Report abuse
That great academic resource called Youtube? nay Nicotine uses it because it gives him what he wants! The inherent psychological need to believe the worst about the country that has his beloved Falklands!

All his videos tell us so far is that there are about 4 homeless people in London, and a cannabis farm in Birmingham and Manchester, by god the chickens are coming home to roost! we must be a third world country

What wonders is he next going to show us next George Galloway the man who took oil money from Saddam Hussein as a factual resource?

You still haven't answered my question, does Globetrotters allegations have any factual basis, yes or no Nicotine it's not that hard is it?
54 zethe (#) Jun 09th, 2010 - 01:35 pm Report abuse
I know, it took him four videos to show four homeless people in the UK

The two videos i found show people who aren't even classed as poverty stricken, They were classed as MIDDLE CLASS. All working with full time jobs and yet they still have to go to a homeless shelter to eat. Because the inflation on food makes it impossible for a middle class family to cook more than three meals a week.

Heck, with my current wage i'm classed as working class and never miss a meal, i've been on two holidays this year.

About the immigration, people complain about it a lot, but it's not really much of a problem 91% of the UK's population are from the UK.
“How will afford UK to keep all benefits for housing, income support, unemployment benefits, etc. and pay the huge debt in the same time? Cut is equal to less benefits, less jobs, less everything, etc.”
Because the united kingdom is a multi trillion pound economy, and we've been in more debt than this before? We'll just cut back a bit on a few things, it's not that much of a problem. We can still afford most things all which will happen is each area will receive a small cut which will total up to a lot, and we will use this to pay the debt.
55 gdr (#) Jun 09th, 2010 - 06:52 pm Report abuse
Zethe !!!
-----------------------------------
all are in 2009 numbers :
--------------------------------------------------
UK -- GDP-- : 1.828 billions Euro.
France -- GDP -- : 1.986 billions Euro.
Germany -- GDP -- : 2.538 billions Euro.
--------------------------------------------------
GDP per capita :
UK : 29.000 Euro.
France : 30.200 Euro.
Germany: 30.500 Euro.
--------------------------------------------------
Industry Value Added Rates :
UK : 23.4 %
France : 20.4 %
Germany : 30.1 %
--------------------------------------------------
Annual Unit Labour Costs Increasing Rates :
UK : 3.8 %
France : 1.1 %
Germany : 1.9 %
---------------------------------------------------
Competitiveness Index :
UK : 78.3
France : 99.4
Germany : 95.4
----------------------------------------------------
Annual Employment Change Rate ..2008--2009
UK : -- 1.4 %
France : -- 1.3 %
Germany : -- 0.9 %
------------------------------------------------------
General Government Deficit Rates :
UK : -- 5.6 % GDP
France : -- 3.5 % GDP
Germany : -- 1 %GDP.
56 stick up your junta (#) Jun 09th, 2010 - 07:50 pm Report abuse
Sovereignty of the Falklands by % 1833 to date
UK 100%
Argentina a big fat 0
57 NicoDin (#) Jun 09th, 2010 - 09:04 pm Report abuse
@stick up your junta

Do you mean “Psychologist” what is a different thing from “Psychiatrists”.
If so, you are right there is 1 Psychologist every 649 inhabitant the higher rate in the world.
And we will need more to cure some Argentineans living in an Island that gone crazy and they think they are British. Imagine the big problem are facing this fellow.

@LegionNi

The only one who is weakening his argument is you Mr. LegionNI.
Even though is true that anyone can upload content to Youtube that doesn’t mean that they are false or untrue.
The fragments of my links are from well known and reputable journalists and media sources like BBC, Bloomberg, Sky news, and independent journalist.

These links:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLweYa0TaPI&NR=1
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDVG64fAcdM&feature=related

www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXTEe63BVEg&feature=related

Are from BBC program and Bloomberg.

If you don’t know who is Andrew Neil, please let me introduce him to you. BBC (UK)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Neil

I hope you don’t need to know what is Bloomberg. Do you?

You can agree or not with the content but by questioning the source you and your mates only show that have not any arguments to rebate what is happening in UK now.

So as in the media is tell 1 image is like 1000 words as a have only 2000 as limit here youtube in very useful. Don’t you think so?

I cannot post my cable tv, Newspaper, Economist Magazine, etc. on this forum. Do you?

Any way everyone is aware that UK is going to end like Greece but you guys.

What can I do? Keep denying is free, easy to do and will not harm you until the irrefutable reality reckon.

Time to wake up guys (ZZZZzzzzzz). Riiiiinnnng, Riiiiinnnng, Riiiiinnnng, Riiiiinnnng

regards,
58 LegionNi (#) Jun 09th, 2010 - 09:30 pm Report abuse
The YouTube links you attach are about the economy. How do these relate to the supposed crime, child prostitution etc you claim are the norm in the North of England.

Not only do you use YouTube to back up your arguments but you can't even stick to the point!

Wether the videos are true or not is irrelevant. The point is you are being selective of the videos you are selecting. Typical Argentine trick really. Look for everything that makes your argument look good and ignore everything else.

If life in the UK was so bad why do so many immigrants risk everything to get to the UK? Actions speak loader then words or your YouTube rubbish. The area in which I live has one of the largest Polish communities in the UK. They come here to work and have a better quality of life. Again actions Nicodin speak loader than words.

Now as to the UK economy, yes its bad, but hey it has been before. We have always paid our debts back and we will again.

We will not pull an Argentina and default on our debt to get us out of trouble.
59 NicoDin (#) Jun 09th, 2010 - 11:10 pm Report abuse
@LegionNi

First at all, as you can see, here the topics are very diverse, right?
If you referrer to this video www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR5o1-KeGq4&feature=related

I have the same answer, is BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation) so please be coherent Mr. Rhaurie accused me before of not using reputable source as BBC. When I post from BBC you don’t like it .
“I am selective” you said?

Please you have to admit that you are in a complete state of denial.
What source do you like?

“If life in the UK was so bad why do so many immigrants risk everything to get to the UK?”

And what kind of economic indicator is that? Argentina has received 5 millions immigrants from the 90 until now and we default in 2001 and had the worst economy calamity ever saw on Argentina’s soil.

As you can see this proves nothing but even though you are wrong even with that.

“A news report released by a UK think tank, the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR), finds that migrants who moved to Britain from countries that joined the European Union on 01 May 2004 are leaving in greater numbers than ever before.”
www.workpermit.com/news/2008-05-05/uk/eastern-european-immigration-decreases-britain.htm

The only one that cans think to go to UK to find a better way of life is a stupid or someone with mental problems.

And that you always pay is another lie you have defaulted before several times your sovereign debt before in history 1932 during the great depression for example. We were net creditor of UK and we wave you 1bn Pound and like that was not enough Peron agree to take your railways companies and arms as compensation for the rest.

“In 1932, the British Government effectively defaulted by converting its 5% War Loan Bonds into new 3½ % bonds on terms that were unfavourable to their holders”

You are in the same path now.
regards,
60 Rhaurie-Craughwell (#) Jun 10th, 2010 - 01:35 am Report abuse
Zethe I would imagine the UK will still pay for the welfare state in the same manner that countless other countries through the decades have restructured their economies? Stimulate the private sector by cutting the public one? More private sector more profit= More Tax less state expenditure = Budget deficit solved, if a country as small as Hong Kong and Singapore achieved it in the 60's and 70's then why shouldn't the UK we did it in the 80's?.

Nicotine isn't bloomberg that hated institute of Americanism which I recall not a few months back you accused of lying about Argentina's economy because they are from Yankistan? I thought the BBC I quote from you is “A Royal Run Institution by prince Philip so I cannot trust it because it is Bias?”

All that Youtube video told us is there is a defecit and it needs to be curtailed, this happens every 30 years or so with every country that has a high market capitalist economy by god dear fellow my parents remember the last time in the 70's when it truly was dire and we had these IRA nutters blowing people up left right and centre and the collapse of empire, and you lot playing war games in the south Atlantic.

My since departed grand generation also recalled the crisis's of the 30's. and up until I was 7 my great Grandma recalling the crisis's of the 1900's and 1920's.

You follow a pattern here? Crisis's come and go it's as simple as that.

What other groundbreaking Youtube video's do you have in store? That they're may in fact be 5 homeless people London?

Oh look here Nicotine, apparently there are at least 20 shanty huts in Argentina?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO65PRu6rjU

Now you still haven't answered my question yes or No?
61 stick up your junta (#) Jun 10th, 2010 - 06:39 am Report abuse
57 NicoDin
Troops per 1,000 capita
UK 7
Argentina 3

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