Wednesday, December 21st 2011 - 17:24 UTC

The Falklands are resourceful and will adapt to changing logistics say industry sources

Reacting to the news this week that all Mercosur member countries had agreed to close their ports to ships flying the Falkland Islands flag, Cheryl Roberts, chair of the Falkland Islands Fishing Companies Association, stated that: “It is still too early to say exactly what the effect might be, whilst obviously disappointing we are now working to find solutions to minimise any potential impacts, both operational and economic, of the recent decision.

Cheryl Roberts, chair of the Falkland Islands Fishing Companies Association

Logistically there are always alternative ways to operate. Access especially to Uruguayan ports has been convenient in the past but with operational planning and working together as an Association there are ways around it and solutions.”

Cheryl Roberts added that “from the earliest days of settlement the Falkland Islanders have above all been resourceful, we have overcome inconvenience and difficulties in the past and are used to dealing with extended supply lines, we certainly won’t be letting this attempted blockade effect our rights to do business and manage our own economy, fisheries or ship registry”

Councillors Jan Cheek and Richard Sawle, on Falkland Islands radio, expressed similar sentiments earlier in the week to the initial decision of Uruguay to ban Falkland flagged vessels.

MLA Jan Cheek commented: “It is extremely disappointing given the overall good relationship we’ve had with Uruguay for many, many years from the earliest days when we had the shipping link there and we have managed to retain that relationship even when there wasn’t a direct passenger or cargo link through there. It’s extremely disappointing that whatever they may say to the contrary it appears that they’ve let pressure from their neighbour influence them in this. They will be losing quite a lot of business but that will force us to bring that work, transhipping as well as the dockings, here. Whilst we can’t do the major dockings here, we could certainly do more of the work and supply here. “

MLA Richard Sawle added: “It is interesting to note that the opposition in Uruguay has been extremely critical of (President) Mujica and I think that’s absolutely right. The other interesting thing that came out of it was that Uruguay believes that it stands to lose significant business. I would say, well let’s try and bring that business here. Let’s try and make it happen fairly soon and fairly quickly. It reduces the threat to our fishing business and I think we need to try and work on that.”

Cheryl Roberts also expanded: “we will obviously have to look for different ports and we’ll have to take different routes for our vessels. There is a lot of the Falkland’s fleet, and Spanish fleet, that use the ports of Uruguay to lay up vessels in between seasons, so it is going to have some effect on the bottom line of each company because we’re going to perhaps have to travel directly back to Vigo instead of stopping in Uruguay as we do at the moment. So yes, it will have an effect but we can’t say how much at this present time, there is a balance of port costs, transit costs and fish sales that are different for each port.”

When asked on the potential to develop port facilities in the Falklands to serve the needs of industry, Cheryl Roberts commented “I think that’s something that obviously does need to be addressed and it is something that is an on-going discussion with government and with the fishing companies on new port facilities, we’ve been discussing possibilities for quite some time and yes, we do need to look into that and we will continue to look into it.”

Historically Montevideo, Uruguay, has been the main port that vessels operating in the licensed Falkland fishery have utilised and Brazil has not formerly been utilised. Facilities for transhipment of frozen cargoes already exist and are utilised in the Falkland Islands, whilst with fore-planning vessels can be re-supplied in the Islands and routine maintenance and dry-dockings can be re-scheduled elsewhere.

It would seem that the main impact would be to unforeseen damage and repairs when the unavailability of adjacent ports with ship-yard facilities could increase logistical difficulties and vessel down-time if facilities cannot be expanded locally.

By Grant Munro – SeAledPR - Stanley

 

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1 Marcos Alejandro (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 05:43 pm Report abuse
Looking at the picture of Cheryl Roberts glasses above I can clearly see why these Brits are so confused.
Dear Cheryl you are in Argentina, South America, UK is far away in Europe, 14000km to be exact.
2 saphira (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 05:48 pm Report abuse
You are a silly boy
3 Great Britain (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 05:53 pm Report abuse
Dear Argentina,

They're not yours and there's nothing you can do about it, not through the ICJ, not through this ridiculous (flawed) embargo, and not militarily.

What tends to happen in countries with a dark history of dictatorial rule is that when things go wrong economically they tend to need a scapegoat, in this case it is the huge oil reserves under the Falklands continental shelf.

There's nothing you can do about it, nothing.

So instead of finding scapegoats how about focusing on your domestic problems, that way you won't waste your time.
4 O gara (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 06:13 pm Report abuse
3“what tends to happen in countries with a dark history”
Well amigo none has a darker one than yours centuries of genocide of native peoples in the four corners of the planet.The hypocrisy of the English on here with their bull...t about caring for self determination when they spent centuries pissing on peoples rights to exactly that
5 jerry (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 06:15 pm Report abuse
Maybe MERCOSUR would accept ships flying the Jolly Roger; these countries seem well acquainted with that.
6 geo (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 06:16 pm Report abuse
** 3 Greed Britain

this fishing boats embargo could be startpoint !!.....who knows ..!!

---------------

Lady Cheryl Roberts ?
is she a relative of our J.A.ROBERTS ...??
7 Great Britain (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 06:21 pm Report abuse
O gara

Actually, compared to the Spanish, Portuguese, French, Belgians our colonial history was (relatively) patriarchal, that is not to excuse the many abuses but prevailing attitudes existed everywhere.

For example, how did Argentina treat its natives?

But more recently, Argentina has been a fascist hellhole for most of the last 100 years while we have not.

Again, this has nothing to do with right and wrong, it's just that Argentina needs a) a scapegoat and b) oil/fishing revenue - the two fit together nicely.

There's nothing Argentina can do other than posture. The ICJ are the legal authority so go to them, but then you'd lose.

Legally and militarily there's better things for the Argentines to be devoting their time to...
8 O gara (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 06:35 pm Report abuse
Compared to the other European colonalists you were no better or worse.
The record of your co0untry over centuries is one of mass murder and genocide on an enormous scale.Your crimes are od Hitlerite standards.
Argentina in the 1880 treated the Indian peoples of the Pampas apallingly slaugthering them in many cases so “British” immigrants would farm the land.
Argentina had a fascist dictatorship from 1976 to 1983.In the 28 years since it has been a democracy quite similar in time to Spain.I hardly imagine you going on about this to any Spaniard.
The current Argentine president suffered at the hands of this dictatorship and far from needing excuses for anything Argentinas economy is doing extremely well unlike Londons
9 bloporta (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 06:35 pm Report abuse
It is one more little step along the very long controvertial issue, but indeed like a drop plus drop will get an effect for sure.
Is funny see how brits critic argentineans with the same matter that anyone could critic them. Like the president of Argentina, is posh and arrogant....what about all your royal family, are they so humble arent they? They use Malvinas to diverse the attention on others real problems , in other newspaper the author, describe all the points for which UK defend the island for, avoiding to say to the british readers, that when UK took over the island expel all the argentinean inhabitants at the time, which for us is the same like for you deffend the current kelpers.
If UK doesnt want to negociate, should know that for ever will have a sleeping problem which could arise at some point. If for you is valued that attitude is up to you....
10 Great Britain (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 06:43 pm Report abuse
On the contrary, the Falklands get absolutely no coverage in the UK media except when the Argentines throw tantrums or there are significant finds of delicious oil.

Get over this, it's nearly 2 centuries since you had any claim whatsoever and even that claim is highly dubious.

The ICJ verdict would come down unanimously on the British/Falklander's side, that is your ONLY legal recourse and the fact that you refuse to take that step indicates that your politicians are well-aware of this.

As I said, there is nothing you can do, get over it.
11 jerry (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 06:44 pm Report abuse
# - “The current Argentine president suffered at the hands of this dictatorship”? Don´t make me laugh; she and her husband were sitting pretty in Patagonia, making oodles of money. The were not suffering in any way.
12 O gara (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 06:46 pm Report abuse
You can educate some of the people some of the time but Jerry well lets say you dont have much hope do you
13 Great Britain (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 06:47 pm Report abuse
How many potatoes does it take to kill an Irishman?
14 Beef (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 06:48 pm Report abuse
If this ban on FI flagged vessels is actually implemented (and I have doubts about whether it actually will be (keep an eye on that AIS info) then all that Argentina will gain is another insight into the Dunkirk spirit which Brits are well know for.

Not really a move forward for Argentina, in fact it has made any agreement in any economic collaboration even more distant. Another rig is on the way and we will see a finalising of plans for oil production conning to fruition in 2012 :-)
15 Great Britain (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 06:50 pm Report abuse
@14 Huzzah!!!!

Still it's not all bad news for rubberface, maybe some will wash up on Argentine beaches...
16 O gara (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 06:53 pm Report abuse
13 the tolerance dissapears and the true racist appears.Fascisms founders were indeed Saxon but the Anglo variety.
Well done your true colours appear.But ill tell you one thing pal it takes a lot of Englishmen to kill a Paddy because we have had always had a lot more cojones than you lot and dont you know it only too well
17 geo (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 06:54 pm Report abuse
** 9 blop

you written is well known by everybody..

tell us anything that what the Brits want to make ...
by not making distraction....
warning (!) our discussion is not related on colonialism/history...
just real politic...
18 Wireless (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 06:54 pm Report abuse
The 'problem' can sleep forever as far as we're concerned, your mickey mouse tin pot shit hole of a country can do fcuk all about it, and won't dare attempt to wake us up, because we'll fcuk you up properly next time, the kid gloves will be off, it will be open season, and you lot will be running away as fast as your little legs will carry you, making as much whining and moaning noises as possible, which will do you no good at all, you'll be chased down and given a really good hiding.

You no better than children fighting over smarties.
19 cLOHO (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 06:56 pm Report abuse
A few historical facts. Argentina did NOT exist when UK first claimed the Falklands. Argentina is a colony itself it population not native to south america. Argentina wants to colonise the falkland islands so what makes this different? Argentina planned to remove the inhabitants after the 1981 war...ethnic cleansing a population and replacing with argentines..colonisation i would say. So recap argentina didnt exist when UK first claimed the Falklands. Its spurious link is that their former masters spain claimed the islands (which was in turn a colonial land grab). The islands are well defended and with a nuke sube stationed at all times safe from attack. tomahawk cruise missle can hit a target anywhere within a 1000 mile range. Try it
20 Great Britain (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 06:59 pm Report abuse
“But ill tell you one thing pal it takes a lot of Englishmen to kill a Paddy because we have had always had a lot more cojones than you lot and dont you know it only too well”

The correct answer was zero potatoes but thanks for playing : D
21 Marcos Alejandro (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 07:00 pm Report abuse
BBC
21 December 2011

“South American states ban Falklands vessels from ports”

“The Labour MP said: ”South American leaders know that Britain has fewer friends than ever before because of David Cameron's isolationist approach in Europe and the indifference to the Obama administration as most cabinet members are close to US neo-Cons.”

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16280613
22 Great Britain (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 07:03 pm Report abuse
No way? An opposition MP criticises the government?

What ever next?
23 O gara (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 07:24 pm Report abuse
20 Well i see you admit you havent the balls for a mano a mano
22 I see some of the people with real power in London have begun to demand negotiations.As i say with the English make the city pay and the peripeherals and planters become quickly redundant
24 ElaineB (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 07:31 pm Report abuse
A Labour MP making labour even more unpopular with the voting public.
25 Great Britain (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 07:32 pm Report abuse
Er, no they haven't demanded negotiations at all, they are criticizing the government for not giving away our sovereignty to the EU (you know, the same EU that has just crippled Ireland's economy and forced you to beg on your knees for the UK to loan you money (we did).

If you expect anything to happen you're delusional, I'll bet you any amount of money.
26 ChrisR (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 08:01 pm Report abuse
16 Ogaga
”But ill (sic) tell you one thing pal it takes a lot of Englishmen to kill a Paddy because we have had always had a lot more cojones than you lot and dont you know it only too well”
Are these the skulking, vermious Paddies of the IRA and then the Real IRA and whatever the cowards call themselves now?
The British Government gave in to these bastards because they did not want to do what it would take to finish them off. I remember at one time there were thought to be less than 800 activists of every filthy 'army' in the north.
Getting rid of them and if necessary their families would have stopped it dead, literally. Another missed opportunity.
But perhaps that would have made us like the Argentinos? :o)
27 O gara (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 08:17 pm Report abuse
Christy your lot has more blood on its hands than any other nation on earth.You invented ethnic cleansing.
But you right about one thing a very few IRA volunteers brought the English to the negotiating table and brought the City to its knees by determination and ruthlessness.Exactkly what CFK must continue with make them pay and they talk,
Christy isnt it lovely to see Martin Mcguiness deputy first minister its not a bad consolation for missing Thatcher by a metre or so
28 cLOHO (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 08:34 pm Report abuse
I think other countries have a lot more blood on their hands than UK. German final solution was a country wide plot to destroy a race how many millions? Old pal stalin dod for a good few million in his day. And dont roll out the old ''uk invented concentration camps thread'' yes during the boer war camps to concentrate a population where used but dont remember any gas chambers and mass graves. UK bankrupted itself fighting two world wars. Dont remember seeing any argentine help apart for providing a safe haven for ex murdering ss soldiers. Its easy to mock bit these are only words. The troubles where resolved and hopefully can start to build bridges. The argentine government murdered thousands in living memory. The islands are in better shape than ever, a nice new air bridge to st helena will help. Look how cut off the islands where after the 1981 invasion. This sabre rattling is hollow the argentine armed forces are in worse shape than 81. Again repeat..argentina didnt exist when uk claimed falklands FACT.
29 Beef (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 08:42 pm Report abuse
Errrr, I thought FI flagged vessels were banned from Uruguay ports. Clearly not this one:

www.marinetraffic.com/ais/shipdetails.aspx?MMSI=740352000
30 Great Britain (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 08:48 pm Report abuse
Well, think about it like this.

In a few thousand years time, historians will document the important events and empires throughout history, The Greeks, the Romans, the Egyptians.

Britain will be there for two reasons, for having the largest empire in human history and for inventing the industrial era (which is a more significant development as making bronze or Iron was.)

Ireland will be a vague memory of a small and largely irrelevant nation state, a footnote made primarily due to proximity with Britain, and I doubt argentina will even be mentioned except in reference to some of the war criminals they helped evade justice.

Both countries of course had no problems appeasing Hitler which is why it is fitting that Ireland is now going to be de-facto run by the Germans.
31 M_of_FI (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 09:16 pm Report abuse
@1...your stupidity constantly leaves me speechless.

@8...so Britain has a dark past, you mention genocides etc, which occurred hundreds of years ago. Lets talk about Argentina's present, what your country is doing right now. You are the aggressor of 3,000 people. You are trying to cleanse 3,000 people from their home. You are now what you believe Britain was hundreds of years ago, that is how backward your despicable country is. If you have such a problem with Britain, bully Britain. Ban their ships. Try and blockade them. Ah thats right, you cant bully Britain they are too powerful, so you will be cowardly and pick on a country of 3,000. And what is worse, you are proud of the fact that your country tries to bully a country of 3,000. And what is even worse than that (!) you believe you have the moral high ground to ethnically cleanse or colonise 3,000 people!
32 Great Britain (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 09:35 pm Report abuse
Yeah apparently having families who've lived there for 6 generations is less important than a bullshit claim that goes back nearly 200 years and was awarded by a colonial power that itself had no right.

These people are pathetic.
33 livin' in argentina (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 09:50 pm Report abuse
20 Great Britain (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 06:59 pm Report abuse
“But ill tell you one thing pal it takes a lot of Englishmen to kill a Paddy because we have had always had a lot more cojones than you lot and dont you know it only too well”

The correct answer was zero potatoes but thanks for playing : D

I'm trying not laugh!
34 Kipling (#) Dec 21st, 2011 - 11:56 pm Report abuse
It is the similar to Hong Kong, do you remmeber?
35 xbarilox (#) Dec 22nd, 2011 - 12:25 am Report abuse
and yet another London's puppet playing its part. If everything is ok, then lady stop complaining or go to bed. sleep tight :)
36 Kipling (#) Dec 22nd, 2011 - 12:46 am Report abuse
Go Home Kelpers!
37 briton (#) Dec 22nd, 2011 - 01:06 am Report abuse
O.G
sometimes you come out with such crap,
we only learned most of that crap from the europeans,
remember, the same ones you lot decent from.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
38 xbarilox (#) Dec 22nd, 2011 - 01:16 am Report abuse
@ 37 Santa will bring gifts to you :)
39 briton (#) Dec 22nd, 2011 - 01:27 am Report abuse
but not you
40 lsolde (#) Dec 22nd, 2011 - 10:47 am Report abuse
l sense a mood of frustration amongst the Argentines.
Could it be that they finally realise that they are NOT going to get their thieving paws on the Falklands?
They crowed when early reports suggested no oil. Now there is oil, they feel that it's theirs! ln your dreams comrades.
@31 M_of_FI,
Thats what the Cretins had planned alright. Ethnic cleansing.
They should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.
But l suppose that people who murder 30,000 of their own citizens would have no qualms about getting rid of 3,000 Falklanders.
Hey, O'Gara, get this up ya, ya loony article.
There will be NO NEGOTIATIONS ON SOVEREIGNTY.
Suck it up, baby.
41 M_of_FI (#) Dec 22nd, 2011 - 11:53 am Report abuse
@35...Xbox, your comment only proves how little you know about the Falklands and its people. But keep it coming, I do enjoy your baseless, incorrect and ignorant logic. It just proves to me how incompetent you, your fellow Argentines and your Government are.

@36...we are home and we are not leaving.

@40...Isolde, it is quite strange that Argentines seem to hold Britain up to a high standard and are critical of Britain's past. But Argentines don’t seem to hold their own country to those same high standards and actually rationalise Argentina’s despicable actions, which are equivalent to what they criticise Britain for doing!
42 Marcos Alejandro (#) Dec 22nd, 2011 - 03:12 pm Report abuse
40 lsolde
l sense a mood of frustration amongst the Brutish :-)
43 Yuleno (#) Dec 22nd, 2011 - 04:54 pm Report abuse
#31 Living your just trying!!!!! I think? um.Yes.
#41 I don't think anyone but the brutish hold themselves in high regard.But what is the reason.What good have they done.1.2.3. in order of preference the top three things of what good they have done.No silly ones now,like occupied the malvinas.
44 M_of_FI (#) Dec 22nd, 2011 - 05:50 pm Report abuse
@43...

You have completely missed the point of my comment (41). I shall spell it out for you. Argentines on here criticise Britain for a “dark” past, but Argentina are currently doing something very similar to what Argentines criticise Britain for doing in its “dark” past. Therefore, Argentines hold Britain to a high standard of conduct, but do not apply the same standards to the actions of their own country. Either that Argentines are illogical, incoherent or hypocrits - if not all.

Top 3:
1. Industrial Revolution
2. Played a major role in defeating the Fascists in WW2
3. And in the present the UK encourages self-determination, human rights and the freedom to all peoples

Now your turn with Argentina Yuleno. What has Argentina provided the world? You cant count dancing, beef, fascists or a fat midget drug addicted footballers.
45 ChrisR (#) Dec 22nd, 2011 - 06:26 pm Report abuse
27 Ogaga
The difference now, is that McGuiness and company had to join the political process or be ostracised by the poor, long-suffering Northern Ireland, BRITISH people.
46 GeoffWard2 (#) Dec 22nd, 2011 - 09:23 pm Report abuse
O'G #4, #8
”none (Great Britain) has a darker one than yours centuries of genocide of native peoples in the four corners of the planet.”

O'G, I have informed you about this many times. You know very well that what you say is ill-founded and grossly over-stated.

I have cited Tasmania as the only case where 19th century people of British origin have done this thing by having different disease tolerance and by killings.
Australians of British ancestory undertook the 20th century 'stolen generation' christianising of aboriginal children - by no means a genocide. And in Ireland, the potato famine was a quarantine-based policy from which many people died, but again no killing.

As terrible as these things were, these are such small beer compared to the *killing* genocides of South America.

Please *learn* when people try to inform you. In this instance, spend an hour *learning* about the genocides across the world since the times of the neanderthals.
Diamond is my usual reference, but it is easier here to refer you to:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history
or
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history#Argentina
47 lsolde (#) Dec 23rd, 2011 - 09:33 am Report abuse
@42Marcos,
No, its the Arguetineans who are frustrated. Whats the matter, lads?
Don't your women or boyfriends look after you?
48 briton (#) Dec 23rd, 2011 - 01:56 pm Report abuse
42 Marcos Alejandro (#)
40 lsolde
l sense a mood of frustration amongst the Brutish :-)
but sadly we are not the desperate ones, trying to get, what it cant have,
and this time next year, you will still be desperate and talking .
49 Yuleno (#) Dec 23rd, 2011 - 04:03 pm Report abuse
#46 Must correct you on the famine.The potato blight was an European wide infestation.What the brutish did was,because imports had to be landed in England, they failed to send Indian corn gifted to Ireland to Ireland.They have excuses for this,as usual,but they only wash with Protestants.
#44-1/liberated the territory from Spanish exploitation
2/lead resistance to yanqui imperialism and supported south American unity
3/che Guevara .
Besides the four ones you want to exclude.
Response- Industrial revolution includes the robbery of materials for countries that were occupied in order to do that.Germany did the same
2/This is one of the problems of patriotic history.Check out the contributions of the USSR compared to the UK and if you wish,the USA
3/This one is obviously a contentious ne and probably(probably) meant to be provocative.Get out of the Malvinas or don't give it full self-determination and make a mutual support agreement between yourselves and the occupiers
Human rights -Maradona and your description does not contravened human rights but does contravene common decency.He isn't involved in this site.
50 cLOHO (#) Dec 23rd, 2011 - 04:20 pm Report abuse
49 - This is typical rant..the islands never belonged to Argentina so how can we give them back?? its a fact debate facts dont roll other facts from history that dont relate. Every counrty has been a bad boy in the past knowone disputes that. Regarding USA and Russia during WW2...read your history USA was standing by before pearl harbour didnt offer us any help during battle of britain or potential invasion. We paid for all our goods fro US up to lend lease (look it up). USSR had at this time signed a pact with germany and was ready to carve up europe.
51 lsolde (#) Dec 23rd, 2011 - 11:14 pm Report abuse
@49Yuleno,
More lies from Yuleno.
What world do you live in mate?
l would be interested to know who“gifted”the lndian corn to lreland?
Perhaps it was big-hearted Argentina? No?
We can't get out of the mal-something or other because we are not there & we have no intention of leaving the Falklands as they are our lslands & most definitely NOT yours.
How about you get out of Argentina & go back to Europe? lmplants.
52 briton (#) Dec 23rd, 2011 - 11:42 pm Report abuse
seems fair .
53 Yuleno (#) Dec 24th, 2011 - 05:36 pm Report abuse
#51 try www. Irishcentral for a commentary on the Irish famine.
But don't do it from the Malvinas,do it from England
54 GeoffWard2 (#) Dec 25th, 2011 - 11:44 am Report abuse
”Re. #46.
Must correct you on the famine.
The potato blight was an European wide infestation.
What the brutish (sic.) did was,because imports had to be landed in England, they failed to send Indian corn gifted to Ireland to Ireland.
They have excuses for this,as usual,but they only wash with Protestants.”

Interesting comment, Yul, showing a bit of research.

Your source is ( the arguably partisan) Irish: www. IrishCentral.com and it is good on aspects of private/overseas donations of support. The foodship came from Boston, Mass., and financial donations came from India (where the colonial presence was majority Irish). Queen Victoria gave the largest donation, along with the Turkish leader and many secular and religious others. There continues to be argument as to whether the potato blight was the proximal or the ultimate cause of the mortalities and social dislocations.
The Irish/Irish-ancestored researchers tend to be more forceful on the issue and – understandably - use most frequently the word 'genocide'. Using their definition, the term should apply equally to the Enclosures Act of England and the Highland Clearances of Scotland.

I tend to the interpretation of historian Cormac Ó Gráda, who disagrees that the famine was genocide: “genocide includes murderous intent and it must be said that not even the most bigoted and racist commentators of the day sought the extermination of the Irish”; though Peter Duffy writes that “The government's crime, was rooted in the effort to regenerate Ireland through ”landlord-engineered replacement of (too small (my words)) tillage plots with (beef (my words)) grazing lands”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)#Suggestions_of_genocide
55 Yuleno (#) Dec 25th, 2011 - 06:05 pm Report abuse
Uuc/multitext project in Irish history,might be a better site for serious research of this matter.
Queen Victoria donated 2.000 from memory.The first donation was from India 14.000,from Irish(not English) soldiers based there and others including rich Hindus.The money was for famine relief ie to buy corn,which was landed in England and had to be cleared for transshipment there.
All this is subject to interpretation of course,but what happened,happened.Just yesterday I read an article on the question of food and free trade in central America today.Now if some lesson were learned from events like the famine in Ireland I would be less inclined to view it as genocide but they haven't been learnt.
Have an enjoyable holiday Geoff
Incidentally,the Choctaw donated 12years after the trail of tears.700 compared to the queen's 2000,that's in money terms.I'll leave you to convert it into terms of gesture,Geoff.Hopefully others might also contribute their views!

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