Thursday, February 23rd 2012 - 06:33 UTC

Argentine group insists with Falklands’ self determination and sharing natural resources

A group of Argentine intellectuals, academics and free-thinkers have criticized President Cristina Fernandez government strategy of confronting the UK on the Malvinas Islands sovereignty dispute and called for dialogue that guarantees the self determination of the Falkland Islanders.

The Argentine memorial at Darwin

“It is necessary to put an end to the contradictory demand from the Argentine government to open bilateral negotiations that include the sovereignty issue and at the same time it announces that the Argentine sovereignty over the Malvinas Islands is non negotiable”, said the paper “Malvinas: an alternative view” elaborated by the group.

“It is essential to offer real dialogue instances with the British and very especially with the Islanders” emphasized the paper.

“The (Argentine soldiers) fallen in Malvinas demand above all that we don’t again fall to the temptation of ‘cheap patriotism’ which took away their lives, nor use them as an element to sacralise positions that in any democratic system are debatable”.

The group which was scheduled to give a press conference on Wednesday to present the “Malvinas: an alternative view” paper, signed by 18 Argentine personalities, suspended the event following the tragic train accident in Buenos Aires and the two-day mourning decided by the government.

However the report described as an ‘invitation to reflection’ ahead of the 2 April 2012 anniversary commemoration of the South Atlantic conflict was released in the internet.

The initiative was criticized from the Argentine government by historian Mario Pacho O’Donell who argued that self determination for the population of the Malvinas was a “false argument”, and by Senator and former cabinet chief Anibal Fernandez who was far coarser in his criticism and said that the Argentine intellectuals are moved by ‘rancour’.

However the members of the group argued that in honour to the human rights treaties incorporated to the 1994 Argentine constitution, the Falkland Islanders must be recognized as people entitled to rights, which means respecting their way of life, and as expressed in the transitory clauses from the amended constitution means abdicating to all intention of imposing on them a sovereignty, a citizenship and a government they do not wish”.

Furthermore “the obsessive repeated statement of the principle “Las Malvinas son argentines” and ignoring or despising the submission that such a statement implies debilitates a fair and peaceful claim for the UK to leave the Islands, with their military base, and makes it impossible to advance towards a management of natural resources shared between the Argentines and the Islanders”.

The group also exposed the existence, in these days of a climate of “nationalistic agitation, again thrust by both governments (Argentina and UK), which seems to have caught hold of our leaders, both from government and the opposition, who proudly exhibit what they describe as a ‘State policy’”.

Argentina needs to abandon the agitation triggered by the Malvinas cause and elaborate an alternative view that helps to overcome the conflict, underlines the paper.

“Our worst tragedies have not been caused by the loss of territories or the lack of natural resources, but rather the absence of respect for life, for human rights, for institutions and essential values of the Republic such as freedom, equality and self determination”, says the report.

“Let us hope that April 2 and the year 2012 don’t lead to the usual escalation of cheap patriotic declamations, but rather help the Argentines, (elected officials, leaders and simple citizens) to jointly reflect and with no prejudice about the relation between our own errors and the failures of our country”.

Those who wish to adhere and sign the document, “Malvinas: an alternative view” can write to alternativamalvinas@gmail.com.
 

 

146 comments Feed

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1 brit abraod (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:11 am Report abuse
This group should be the ones running Argentina. By doing so all sides would be able to benefit
2 JuanStanic (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:25 am Report abuse
Wow, wow, wow. Stop there. Did their ever proposed how to run the country? Did they helped improve the countrt? No, they didn't. Giving opinions is easy when air is free. I haven't heard or see any of them do a serious political, economical or social work to improve things.

This people only complain. Complain on water, on birthdays, on squares being that shape. People won't take this serious.
3 DanyBerger (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:29 am Report abuse
Ha ha El gordo Lanata, Pepe Eliaschev, Sarlo now loving for UK. Amazing.
4 A.J.Rimmer (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:45 am Report abuse
@2 a bit like yourself isn't it Juan, after all, you contribute nothing but complaints and hardships. I have never witnessed you do any of the things you mentioned.

I agree with #1, people like these should be running Argentina, they realise that CFK is diverting attention from your countrys own problems and failings.

A fresh start is what is needed, a total and radical reform of your current political process. Until that happens, dialogue will never happen, and Argentina will be forever doomed to be the laughing stock it is.

The USA do NOT support you, the UN does not support you, and now your trying to win votes from the Caribbean, which will never happen. Because they also believe in Self-determination.
5 Xect (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 08:19 am Report abuse
If any Argentina posters cannot see the logic in these words then I think they are truly lost causes.

The reason why the UK refuses to enter a discussion with Argentina over sovereignty is because Argentina continues to say 'it non negotiable' and also the Islanders do not want it and the land is theirs. You cannot negotiate with someone who has said they demand a fixed outcome because there can be no negotiation in those circumstances.

It should be clear to Argentina the only part the UK plays in this is defense of the islands, politically, economically and militarily. If Argentina offered a different stance then the UK would become less relevant to the situation.
6 JustinKuntz (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 08:24 am Report abuse
There is intelligent life in Argentina, given the comments on Mercopress, who would have thought it.
7 willi1 (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 09:33 am Report abuse
the new old conflict around the malvinas are created by cfk and her ministers only to divert the arg people from the bad financial situation of the country and to collect them behind the government to be prepared of foreign threads.
she opened a second front. in this situation she can cut everything. also salaries. she knows that she can´t follow her last policies of spending too expensive gifts. now she has the majority to take them back. those people who brought her to the second run, the “poor”, hoping to get even more will now be the victims. they must get another target: malvinas.
8 Frank (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 09:38 am Report abuse
@6... you reckon? I would suggest cunning rather than intelligent..... ”advance towards a management of natural resources shared between the Argentines and the Islanders”.

So they want a solution where the UK takes away their base, the islanders can do what they like, but the RGs can still steal their stuff?

What is it about dagos and thieving?????
9 Room101 (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 09:41 am Report abuse
No 5. Xect.
Add “socially” to your three factors and that makes a comprehensive UK relationship with the Islanders.
Also, it depends on whether the statements by this Argentine group are sincere. Verification of positive attitudes is paramount after the past (and continuing )vitriolic comments from so-called responsible heads of government. There's an old saying along the lines that Argentina is to be trusted less when it is being friendly. Sad, but the reality is that marriages may be made in heaven, but counselling to build trust in failing relationships still occurs here on earth.
10 Teaboy2 (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 09:45 am Report abuse
@2 - “I haven't heard or see any of them do a serious political, economical or social work to improve things.” - What and CFK and her croonies have done serious political, economical and social work? Thats funny, as i was sure CFK and her croonies were actually a comedy sketch, well atleast they are in the eyes of the rest of the world.

“This people only complain. Complain on water, on birthdays, on squares being that shape. People won't take this serious.” - Hypocrite, all you do yourself is complain about not having the falklands and about hardships you face and how you are the victims when really its the islanders that are the victims. It may not have occured to you but the authors of this “Falklands: An alternative view”, likely received a private education outside of argentina and outside of the indcotrination over the islands that you had to endure. They are for all intent and purposes far more educated then you youself are. And i find it laughable that you come on here and say people will not listen to them, when we have other argentine posters commenting on this very page that actually agree with them. Its beginning to look like you and the rest of the extremist argentines are becoming fewer and fewer in numbers everyday, with more argentines now waking up and realising what is happening to their own country and how serious the economic situation in argentina is getting, and believe me it will get a lot worser, before it gets any better.
11 Ozgood (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 09:51 am Report abuse
CLAIMS TO THE FALKLANDS/MALVINAS

On the one side you have the UK with its story.
On the other side you have Argentina with its story.

Where does the truth lie? OR Who knows the true history?

SOLO DIOS SABE
12 El Supremo (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 10:00 am Report abuse
A step in the right direction. but, the sovereignty og the Falklands is already settled under International Law and prescedent, and has been for well over 160 years. There is nothing to discus on that matter. The Islanders' wishes are already protected. So, there's nothing to discus there. The only thing to discus would be the positive benfits to all three groups for a condominium arrangement for the islands under UK sovereignty wherein the Argentine side may be invited to 'share the wealth' solely on the basis of good neighbourliness and nothing else. But, it is refreshing to hear adult voices from the great nation of Argentina, at last. We wish then well and hope their ideas gain traction and popular support. The islanders would be the great beneficiaries of having cordial and brotherly relationships with Argentina, as would the UK.
13 lsolde (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 10:00 am Report abuse
l tend to agree with Frank @#8.
They still want to “share” OUR resources.
So there is a lingering feeling that we are on “their” land.
But it is a step in the right direction.
14 J.A. Roberts (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 10:25 am Report abuse
“The only thing to discus would be the positive benfits to all three groups for a condominium arrangement for the islands under UK sovereignty wherein the Argentine side may be invited to 'share the wealth' solely on the basis of good neighbourliness and nothing else.”

About as likely as a snowball in hell. Do you really think Argentina is ever going sharing some of its resources with Chile/Uruguay/Paraguay/Bolivia simply on the basis of good neighbourliness? Highly unlikely!
15 kbec (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 10:25 am Report abuse
The whole world knows Falklands are never going to be Argentine - they can't even call them by their proper name. I only come here everyday to see what hilariously stupid things timmerman or CFk have said overnight - beats any blog site anywhere in the world.

It will never change. Argentines have been indoctrinated with their version of what is right. Chavez and a few other spanish speaking banana republics are goading them on. My respect to these people who recognise the islands are someones home - but my advice to this alternative view group is to get the hell out of South America before they disappear.
16 GreekYoghurt (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 10:50 am Report abuse
Don't ever remove your bases. South American territories have pretty much exclusively been decided by the principle of “uti possidetis” and NOT by negotiation or peaceful means. There is a huge amount of history to back this up. When Kircho says 'Falklands is not a war trophy' she's being ironic, that's how south americans define there land borders, through war.

There is no need to share resources @14 is correct. The likelihood of Argentina sharing their resources with the Islanders is zero, and shown by the fact they bring NOTHING to the negotiation table. They bring nothing and expect everything, is simply how an 'Argentinian Negotiation' works. You're not stealing anything if it was never theirs.

The principle of uti possidetis prevails, Argentinians.
17 Rufus (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 10:53 am Report abuse
Sharing their resources out of a sense of good neighbourliness? With a neighbour that is hardly a good neighbour?

Sounds more like asking for Danegeld than offering an olive branch to me.
18 GreekYoghurt (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 12:30 pm Report abuse
@17 haha, have to laugh when you hear Danegeld mentioned.

The argies being typically nonsensical think they have a big box of self-determination to give to the Islanders. And in return for a share of the resources, they'll give the Islanders that box of self-determination.

That would last for 3 years, and the mercurial argentinians would get bored and want sovereignty again, just like their poor spanish friends who seem to not understand what the term 'legally binding' means.
19 gonzo (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 12:59 pm Report abuse
Oh Dear, it took courage for this group to speak their minds and come up with their sincere thoughts in a country governed by bullying bastards....hope they are not harassed and threatened by Cristina's cronies now (will keep praying for that!!!).
20 stick up your junta (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 02:08 pm Report abuse
Have they passed Think's Spanish test?
21 Conqueror (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 02:19 pm Report abuse
To my recollection there was a period starting in the 90s when argieland appeared “friendly”. Perhaps someone can remind us all exactly when that was. One presumes it started when the agreements on fisheries and oil exploration were signed and ended when argieland tore those agreements up. As far as I can see that would be between 1995 and 2007.

Whilst we should never lose hope, great care has to be taken that this is not another argie ploy. I have said this before and I make no apology for repeating it. I see no reason for the Falklanders or Britain to trust the argies until the claim to the Islands is removed from their constitution and at least a hundred years has passed without a single incident. As an example, even when things are supposed to be “friendly”, argies don't seem to be able to control themselves. Was there not the incident in 2004 when the Almirante Irizar entered conservation zones under the jurisdiction of the Falklands and started demanding other vessels identify themselves? Hardly “friendly”.

I also mention the argie war cemetary. Has CFK not already said that the presence of argie war graves on the Islands increases argieland's claims? It might be very British and considerate but it makes no sense to put a weapon in the enemy's hands. Who controls where the argies that come to “visit the war graves” go and what they see?
22 Tobers (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 02:22 pm Report abuse
Something I have noticed here in Argentina is just how timid people are to express an alternative view to the widely held belief that - Las Malvinas son nuestras- When someone does get the rare opportunity to do so its usually almost apologetically. In this statement they criticize Argentinian politics but also are careful to appease Argentinians.

For example they also claim that the British are agitating nationalistically too? Bueno, the British have made it very clear they will -defend- the Islanders right to sd. A political stance sure. But its reactionary more than provocative and British people on the whole really dont spend too much time thinking about The FI.

Also they are saying that Argentina still deserves a share of the resources in the FI. This is very wrong. They are not in a position to make this statement.

My spanish is not perfect so I could be wrong but the only Argentine I have heard who seems to be saying wholeheartedly that Argentina has no right to claim the FI in any form and is entirely hypocritical to do so is Martin Capparos. C0rrect me if I'm wrong.

As for affecting the psyche of 80% of Argentinians this report will change absolutely nothing. Its like trying to persuade a devoutly religious person to stop believing in God.
23 egarcia1970 (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 02:37 pm Report abuse
#22: “Also they are saying that Argentina still deserves a share of the resources in the FI. This is very wrong. They are not in a position to make this statement.”

I agree with a lot of the document but have some reservations about this part too. In my view we should let the Falklanders do whatever they want with their islands and their resources.

“My spanish is not perfect so I could be wrong but the only Argentine I have heard who seems to be saying wholeheartedly that Argentina has no right to claim the FI in any form and is entirely hypocritical to do so is Martin Capparos. C0rrect me if I'm wrong.”

If you can read a little Spanish, you might find interesting this opinion piece by Argentine libertarian thinker Alberto Benegas Lynch. He advocates full-blown independence for the Falklands:

economiaparatodos.com.ar/ver_nota.php?nota=3385

Cheers.
24 GreekYoghurt (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 02:38 pm Report abuse
@21 I've already said that it's about time we repatriated the war dead. The only reason for keeping them is because it has a positive impact on tourism, however sickening that sounds. However, it is quite clear that the Argentinians are categorically NOT to be trusted. History has taught us this lesson well and we should not drop our guard. By retaining the Status-quo we can call on A
article 51 of the charter to defend the islands, and this time we should make the war-zone the whole of Argieland.

@22 The Argentinian political parties are writing yet another joint statement to say the falklands are theirs, and they want the oil from the falklands. This is all they have. The only thing they have to take to a negotiation is a cessation of whinging. I don't think anyone feels apologetic, I think they just feel it's incredibly pathetic that a country could be this lame.
25 Idlehands (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 02:44 pm Report abuse
22 Tobers (#)

Hugh Bicheno believes it is a pointless claim too.

Your last paragraph is spot on. It has become an article of faith/belief to Argentines
26 mollymauk (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 03:33 pm Report abuse
@ 25 -
Nice to know that he sees sense as well, but he is actually British -

“Hugh Bicheno was born in Cuba to British parents in 1948. He is a naturalised citizen of the United States, although he now lives in Cambridge, England, where he was educated”

I also had assumed he was Argentinian, until I read his book on the Falklands War, “Razor's Edge”
27 hipolyte (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 03:50 pm Report abuse
15 kbec, ( liar )

there are some other banana countries like China, did you know that ?
Brazil, Chile ( lan chile) and there is long list.

cheers mate.
28 xbarilox (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 05:17 pm Report abuse
Up your *rse Malvinists :o

@ 2 ¿Qué pasha Juanstanic, eshtash nervisho? Chupala Juan, seguila chupando. Que te regale las islas Cristina, ¿a ver? :)
29 JuanStanic (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 05:28 pm Report abuse
@4
False. I'm a active member of Movimiento Popular Fueguino, a Fuegian political party. I've been active in Jorge Garramuño's campaign for diputado(where he got elected). I take an active stance and help my party whenever I can. I have also colaborated in Sciurano's campaign “Ushuaia Magnifica” by planting trees. I also participated in the two last campaigns to clean Ushuaia's coast.

And this people shouldn't be running nothing. If they so much love their country and want to see it improve they would(anc can now anyway) acted in a proper way. Like going after a government post.

@10
So what with external education? I myself went to UAB in Barcelona under a UADE program, and I spent almost a year there. It's not like studying in another country should change your way of thinking.
And go ahead. Come here, go to the street and ask people. Ask people what they think. 50% won't care. 25% will agree. 25% will disagree. That's 75% of people who's not agreeing with it.

BTW, you got you facts wrong. Most of us know how the country is. We know inflation is 25%. Nobody denies that. Are we less capable of buying stuff? No. In fact, last year we bought a lot. This year we know economy is to grow more slowly. We may not buy as much as last year. So? Are we going to be unhappy? Maybe a bit upset but not unhappy. Is our financial system a proof that economy is not good? Maybe it is, maybe not. Corralito memories are fresh.
30 hipolyte (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 05:45 pm Report abuse
This “personalities” of Argentina are just 2 nd or 3rd line of reporters and a bunch of exocets guided by $$$$ I don't see any argentinean Nobel price inside of the group...
This guys are the comparative of the ones in London trying to abolish the Royal family...... I believe now you understand the meaning of this guys...

Democracy, is good !!! we let all the people talk, think and publish their ideas.
31 JuanStanic (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 05:56 pm Report abuse
@30
Couldn't have say it better.
The only part I disagree is maybe in freely publishing ideas, but thinking and talking is as free as breathing.
32 hipolyte (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 06:10 pm Report abuse
JuanStanic, please write me one e mail, i would like to ask you some things about your political ideals, nothing to comment on this forum.
luissuriani@hotmail.com
thanks
33 The Cestrian (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 06:12 pm Report abuse
Looks like the Argentines will predictably have something other than The Falklands to occupy their minds very shortly. The worm is turning:

www.economist.com/node/21548229
34 Ricardito (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 06:18 pm Report abuse
I have a naif question for the kelpers: if Argentina were a first world country, would you have accepted to be part of it?
I fully understand that islanders want to remain British, but why? That's just a question to understand the point of view of the Kelpers ad I thought this place could be a good place to ask. Sorry if someone feels upset for this.
35 GreekYoghurt (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 06:26 pm Report abuse
@33 That article is not only bang-on-the-money it's also got one of the best photos of KFC that I've seen in a while.

@34 You just ask yourself the same question, do you want to be a part of Spain again?
36 hipolyte (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 06:26 pm Report abuse
33 The Cestrian

unfortunately, that is our nature, we will have a crisis, then again growing 9 % per year... that is our way of doing things, unfortunately.... we are a mix of European garbage... ( there are of course some good ones) however we have a couple of state policies and the biggest is the one over Malvinas, so sooner or later, we will be there again. Best you can do is to make a great agreements based on the UN scenario having the real English as referee.

Flag over the islands 3 colors ( light blue, white and yellow), then you do what ever you want to do with that rock. be smart...
37 stillakelper (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 06:30 pm Report abuse
Brave people to stand up and be counted. I am sure there are many more, like the little group in Rosario who would like to be friends but are scared s***less to say anything in public in case the boys come round.

#21 There was indeed a period in the mid/late '90's when we talked together to find ways to get on. This resulted in the 1995 Hydrocarbons agreement which created an area of special co-operation either side of the median line in the SW area. The 1999 agreement amongst other things formalised the SWA Fisheries Commission, to work together to preserve fish stocks.

From 2003 onwards the K regime worked to dismantle all areas of co-operation and good neighbourliness, preferring a policy of harassment and intimidation to try to get the Islanders to capitulate. It was then, and is now, both an immoral and futile policy.

Hope these good people will be allowed to continue to promote reasonable behaviour and rational thinking.
38 JuanStanic (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 06:33 pm Report abuse
@33
As long as we don't get back to the 80's hyperinflation(really unlikely), and we don't see a total change on our daily lives, what are we really worrying about?
After all, we went from eating a ton of beef to eating chicken in a couple of years because of prices. Are we worrying, unhappy or sad about it? No, we just miss beef, nothing else.
39 yankeeboy (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 06:41 pm Report abuse
38. What is after Chicken? Fish? After Fish? Oats? Why do you think hyperinflation can't come back? What is hyper inflation 100% year, 200%? Because this year is going to be 35-40% but 2-3% (if they are lucky) growth.
40 hipolyte (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 06:44 pm Report abuse
35 GreekYoghurt , Ricardito ask a question, you should not be replaying with a new question, where were you educated ? in Camden town market ?

please answer the question as a educated person.
41 briton (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 06:51 pm Report abuse
It seems, as Argentina gets worse, more and more people are questioning her policy,
You just can’t get away with facts,
The islanders don’t want you,
They want nothing to do with you,
You have no rights to there island
And you will never get them,
Why does not Argentina pick on someone her own size,
In stead of a tiny little island,.
Bully .

.
42 Ricardito (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 06:52 pm Report abuse
Dear Mr. GreekYoughurt,
I think the scenarios are very differrent, that is to say Arg Malvinas/Falklands and Spain UK, and as Hipolyte said; you should not answer a question with another question. That's unpolite.
By the way, thank you Hipolyte.
43 Idlehands (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 06:58 pm Report abuse
34 Ricardito (#)
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 06:18 pm

Though not an islander I'll take a stab at answering that. For a start would you like somebody to insist that you are British rather than Argentine?

A further point is that islanders enjoyed a remote peaceful existence in the society they created but that was ruined forever in 1982. Since then they have been antagonised by Argentina and know that the life they currently lead would be changed again by Argentine sovereignty. There is no way that the islands wouldn't change if Argentina were to somehow gain sovereignty. Currently they rule themselves and create their own laws to suit their society. Why would they want to change that and become a small despised minority in a nation they have no cultural connections with and long and very bad experiences of?

It is simply too late for Argentina - they've played a poor hand badly.
44 hipolyte (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 06:58 pm Report abuse
No problem Ricardito... i was just putting a little of decency on the discussion.

in my town it is called pulling the ears...
45 Ephick (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:01 pm Report abuse
www.facebook.com/pages/Falklands-prosperous-land-argentine-and-British/388770114483548
46 Pugol-H (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:01 pm Report abuse
@40 hipolyte

“where were you educated ? in Camden town market”

You should try it before you knock it, you could learn a lot in a place like that.

Or do you just think you are so much better than some other people.
47 GreekYoghurt (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:06 pm Report abuse
@40,42 I think you'll find it's identical. Argentina is a third world country and doesn't want to be colonised by Spain. Falklands are a set of islands with a democratic government that don't want to be colonised by Argentina.

The fact you brutalised them in 1982 and continue doing so through any 'peaceful' mechanism you can think up just made it even clearer that no one wants to be a part of you.

It's that simple. If you cannot see that, then it's not our issue.
48 ynsere (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:07 pm Report abuse
I was in BA in 1982. I don't believe dissent such as today's still timid instances would have been published at that time and if it were, the authors would have been beaten up by the mob. Much as I detest the two K govt's, they do allow at least some internal criticism. Not too much mind you, they're trying to gain control of paper for newspapers.
49 Ricardito (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:10 pm Report abuse
Mr Idlehands, thanks for your answer. In fact, that's the kind of information I was looking for. The thing is that during all this time here in Argentina we just talk about the dispute between Buenos Aires and Londong. However, I haven't hear anything from a Kelper. I knew they want to remain British but I did not know why they did not want to be Argentine.
I need to be honest, I wish Malvinas to be Argentinean some day and I hope we Argentines and Kelpers could be friends some day as it was before the bloody war. However, I think the position Argetina has taken towards this issue is not correct and I hope it change someday.

@Hipolite! hehe that's the kind of English phrases that I want to learn “pull the ears” :)
50 Idlehands (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:14 pm Report abuse
Camden is great - you should pay it a visit. It's not particularly good for shopping but it's a great day out to sit with a beer and watch the world go by. It's a 'weird and wonderful' place.
51 hipolyte (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:15 pm Report abuse
oohhh yes I was punched in the nose by a couple of drog addicts ....nice place !! I loved the HITLER T shirts !! .....
52 GreekYoghurt (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:17 pm Report abuse
@51 you shouldn't go out in Buenes Aires then. If you cannot take the heat...
53 Ricardito (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:18 pm Report abuse
@47 Mr Greekyoughurt,
Thanks for you point of view.
“It's that simple. If you cannot see that, then it's not our issue.”
I know it's not your issue, however, thanks for being clear and polite on this point.
54 hipolyte (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:22 pm Report abuse
52 GreekYoghurt mate, I live in Lima Perú, and I love the wines and the air of the Andes of Mendoza.... i love it !!!!, Buenos Aires it is too much for me... as well as Sao Paulo, too big cities.... where do you live ? just asking...
55 Idlehands (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:24 pm Report abuse
I think “pulling the ears” must be an English translation of an Argentine expression as it doesn't really mean anything in English.
56 Ricardito (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:25 pm Report abuse
I live in Buenos Aires, so far. It's too bigand because of that I'm looking for moving to other place....
57 JuanStanic (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:26 pm Report abuse
@39
No, there is always something to eat. Potatoes, pasta, the choices are multiple. Besides, the chicken thing took like 10 years to revert the consume.
We are sure hyperinflation won't come back because back then we were either in very bad shape(I really mean very bad) or under military. We may have some troubles today, but not enough to cause it. And taking Alfonsin as an example hyperinflation isn't good for any political career.
We are talking of 200% a year or more. We are talking about prices being changed 3 times a day!
And besides, as long as soy and beef keeps money coming in, the economic won't worsen much.
58 Pugol-H (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:28 pm Report abuse
@49 Ricardito
“pull the ears” - is not an English expression!

@51 hipolyte
This can happen even if you don't, “walk around looking down your nose at people”(this is an English expression Ricardito)
59 JuanStanic (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:31 pm Report abuse
pull the ears, tirar de las orejas. It's making you to notice that you are doing something wrong. Like to correct yourself.
60 hipolyte (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:35 pm Report abuse
55 idlehands yes, it is an Argentinean slang, the right translation will be something like //slap on the wrist/// there are many others, like this ones:
throw me the rubber
to bury the sweet potato
it is going to rain pieces of shit in vertical position.

this is just a funny play with english language, just for fun :)
61 JuanStanic (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:40 pm Report abuse
@60
Jajaja
Throw me the rubber.
You made me laugh a lot :D
62 Ricardito (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:41 pm Report abuse
@60
Yesterday, I wrote for an exam and
it went me like the ass..
63 gonzo (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:41 pm Report abuse
@37 (stillakelper)

Thanks for your comment, you have explained your idea very clearly and in a polite fashion . Regards from Buenos Aires!
64 Xect (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:42 pm Report abuse
I like the fact there are some moderate and decent Argentinian folk posting in here. We may not agree but we can be respectful of each others point of view.

If any of the Argentine posters can put themselves in the shoes of someone from the Falklands you may understand their view of Argentina.

Argentina has attacked, bullied and made their lives difficult for many years now, it is only the might of Britain that protects and supports them. It's pretty difficult to see how such a nasty aggressor would be welcomed by the Falkland people.

Argentina however could change its stance, support the islanders and then over time the Falkland people may come around to seeing Argentina in a different light.

It is really Argentina's only choice given Argentina is clearly no match for the power of the UK when it comes to politics or military power.

The world is a worse place for Argentina's behavior towards 3,000 civilians who do not deserve to be treated this way.
65 JORGE1982 (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:43 pm Report abuse
@Stillakelper (Mike Summers) If you can understand spanich, I invite you to surf argentine media and see what the people reaction was to these clowns' statementes. Are you happy because an ex-lawmaker and femenim voleyball trainer speak in your favour?

You should know that if the argentine government were to recognize you the so-called “self-determination” right as if you were people, these 17 clowns would have done the opposite, since they are meant to oppose everything government does.

P.S.: There are no many more clowns like these here, but I can bet there are more islanders willing to talk about sovereignty, but they don't do it because the harassment of people like you Mike.
66 DanyBerger (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:51 pm Report abuse
@ Idlehands

“Camden is great - you should pay it a visit. It's not particularly good for shopping but it's a great day out to sit with a beer and watch the world go by. It's a 'weird and wonderful' place.”

Yeah, yeah especially for drug dealer, pocketing stilling and that kind of stuff.
67 JuanStanic (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:53 pm Report abuse
Stillakelper
I would like to be able to contact you or any other posible Islander as I have some questions to do regarding business in the Islands and I think this is not the place to ask.
68 Ricardito (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:55 pm Report abuse
@64 Thank you for your answer.
You shuould also know that there are many Argtinean that look forward for a nice and peaceful dialogue with the Kelpers. Unfourtunately, we know that's way do far away due to the international disputes we have recently had. So sad :(
69 GreekYoghurt (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:59 pm Report abuse
This is hilarious. Bullying Argentinians trying to enchant the Falklanders with what a friendly bunch they are.

Hmm.
70 Xect (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 08:03 pm Report abuse
@66 Ah Danny, I see you still have no class or integrity.

@68 The people of the islands are peaceful and would enjoy nothing more than friendly dialogue with the decent majority of Argentine people. I don't look badly on your people because of your despicable government. There are good people everywhere but sometimes they aren't represented by good people.
71 Ricardito (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 08:04 pm Report abuse
Yes, Mr GreekYoghurt, that is true. I am transparent and polite...You can't put an entire nation “in the same bag”.
If you don't see it, that's not my issue ;)
72 gonzo (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 08:10 pm Report abuse
@64 (Xect) Good point. I am one of the ever-growing number of “clowns” (so called by Jorge82-line 65) who understands the fair position of the kelpers. Unfortunately the whimsical stance from Argentina will go on for years and years, but rest assured that there are many argentinians (and hopefully there will be more and more over time- unlike told by some of my compatriots in this form) who are willing to build a more friendly and honest relationship with the people from the Falklands. Having said that, we have to embrace ourselves for awkward times ahead as Cristina and her hard-core supporters will try to use the issue (up to an abusive point actually) and will talk a load of rubbish in every public speech she makes in the coming months/year...personally, I will try to turn a deaf ear as often as I can (actually turning the TV off or switching the tv channel will be a saner option). Have a great weekend !
73 hipolyte (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 08:13 pm Report abuse
64 Xect (#)

I see your comment is very positive, that is what we all need.

I do offer you to go to my house in Mendoza and to taste my wines ( I go there 4 times a year) I hope you can have a summer house in Patagonia or in Mar del Plata... I would love to take you to our ski center and have a great friendship, I hope you can do the same with me, however if you don't, no worries, i understand you.... there is a 40 million country trying to get your house, your job, your school, your everything..., well, the thing is that if you are very smart you will just keep all of it, and you will gain a better position as a SPECIAL province administrated by the UK or better than that, by the ENGLISH ISLANDERS, please understand sovereignty is something over the soil, not on our house, your life.... if you have the Argentinean flag over there, and you KEEP your citizenship as English, and you KEEP your driving way by left and you KEEP your economy and currency, there is nothing to loose for you, you will just have a closer university, a closer hospital and a closer friendly country, you just need to put effort on the agreement and keeping our argentine police ,argentine “language” off of the islands, you will have all you need, just be sure my government put IT''S SIGNATURE on the UN. and then keep your islands, we don't want to go there to do anything, we know it is very hard to live there and we are lazy, we just need our flag over the islands, you can keep the buildings, language, style of life etc. as simple as this... We have a democracy, take advantage of it.

sovereignty is something and THE ONLY THING we will not negotiate with you, the rest is yours.

My invitation to Mendoza is real, and I know you know about our wines, because you can find them in any store in London.

Come to Mendoza and see how we are, you have the perception of Cristina and the war, well believe me that is not the truth.
74 Academik (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 08:29 pm Report abuse
I only feel sorry for the poor arguments of the inhabitants of the Falklands for JOINING only wealth that belongs to Argentina. Hopefully the law will prevail not only the strongest will prevail but also history, geographical reasons and international law only reason to give the Argentine claim. And the ground made ​​the bogus self-determination. (this right is only when you're a native, is not the case invaded the islands in 1833 and the English settlers brought)
75 STRATEGICUS (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 08:45 pm Report abuse
I notice that dickhead Sean Penn is spouting again calling for unrestricted Argentine immigration to the Falklands and sharing of the resources.(The Grauniad -23 February )
The Falklanders should ask him if they can immigrate to his Malibu mansion and share his $150 million.
76 JORGE1982 (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 08:47 pm Report abuse
@72. Yes, you are one of those clowns, but you are not a “growing” number. There you are wrong. You are just a constant minority doing just noise.
77 zulu99 (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 08:48 pm Report abuse
I do find it interesting that one of the arguments used by the Argentino government and the supporters of the government's claims on the Falklands is “geography, the islands are closer to Argentina and they're so far from the UK, etc.” This is such a lame argument as there are many islands and territories of countries that are hell and gone from their governing countries yet the residents of those islands and territories are happy to be part of their governing country and countries that happen to be closer to them make no claim over them. Have you CFK supporters ever heard of St. Pierre and Miquelon? Those are islands that are right next to Canada where the closest point is only 20 KM from Canadian territory. But, the Canadians aren't sitting around bitching and moaning about getting those islands and the residents of those islands are happy to be part of France. I understand that the situation isn't exactly the same as the Falklands, but I'm speaking of the “geography” argument being about as lame as you can get.
78 xbarilox (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 08:50 pm Report abuse
@ 73 Cristina is the most miserable person in this world, who are you trying to convince of your lies? Comete un asadito el domingo con un buen vinito mendocino y dejá de hacerte el buenito :)
79 JuanStanic (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 08:52 pm Report abuse
@77
Most don't use it anyway. In high school we are teached the historical claim. At most the geographic claim is teached in primary school.
80 GreekYoghurt (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 09:05 pm Report abuse
@73 Argfag, the UN doesn't recognise your sovereignty and you don't have anything to negotiate. So you bring nothing to the negotiation table, unless you want to enlighten us?
@79 Doesn't matter what you teach in school, they're not your islands; never were, never will be.

You people don't seem to understand basic property rights, history or reality.
81 Stefan (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 09:10 pm Report abuse
@79

Which historical claim? The claim that although Argentina never had a real administrative body on the islands, at one time, some people who would eventually become Argentine, were there, therefore the islands are yours?

That's not a historical claim. It's “brainwashing for dummies”.
82 axel arg (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 09:11 pm Report abuse
Alternative view?, are you sure, what's the deference betwen the british posture, and the arguments of this so called alternative view for malvinas?.
like i said in another comment, all the opinions are respectable, but what is really shamefull, are the terrible omitions that all those so called intellectuals do.
Fisrtly, they should know that actulay it's the u. n the one that never invoked the right to self determination for the this case, in none of the resolutions that were expressed for the malvinas-falkand cause, like it did with others colonial situations. Beside, what is interesting is that there is not any critic by them respecting the rejection by the u. k. to resume the negotiations, all they do is to criticicise the policies of the argentine government, i think that this omitions show clearly what's actualy what they deffend.
On the other hand, there is something important that you must know, all those intellectuals, or unless most them, are antikirchnerist, and the giornal were the alternative was published, was in la nación, one the most antikirchnerist newspapers of the country, they talk about human rights, and they publish the aternative in a giornal which has supported all the dictatorships, and still criticises the trials agains the criminals of the militar regimen, isn't contradictory and hipocrite?, the only one good aspects that la nación has, is that a few of it's giornalists are exelent, i have a friend who works there.
If they want to talk about self determination for the islanders, they should propose in the alternative, to take the dispute to the i. c. j, that's the only one way to know if that principle is really applicable or not for this cause. However, if none of the two parts proposes it, it's because both aren't sure that they can win theacse. So, beyond the fact that this kind of article must be a placer for most you, you must know others issues which are behind this so called alternative.
83 Xect (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 09:12 pm Report abuse
@Gonzo - Good post my friend.

@Hypolyte, thank you very much for the kind offer, I appreciate it and would not mind talking to you more!

In terms of sovereignty I do understand the Argentine position but you need to also understand the Falklander's position. Argentina has done many nasty things to the islanders and they are skeptical of anything Argentina offers but if Argentina can prove over some years its open, supportive and friendly then maybe this view set will change.

This is the only way the situation will change as the UK is far, far too strong for Argentina in any sense and as it stands the islanders fear Argentina and its tactics so right now there is zero chance of them being willing to talk about sovereignty however like I said if Argentina can show itself to be trustworthy and friendly this view may change and the islanders could in the distant future (30+ years would be my guess) to review their allegiance to the UK since the UK does support self-determination as it has proven time and time again since the Empire was dismantled.

It was good talking to you gentlemen anyway and enjoy the weekend!
84 lsolde (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 09:15 pm Report abuse
@76JORGE1982,
So anyone who disagrees with you is a “clown”?
Argentine “democracy” in action.
@72hipolyte,
Unfortunately for you, we don't want your flag flying over OUR lslands.
You will have to find somewhere else to colonise.
85 Malvinero1 (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 09:17 pm Report abuse
73 Argfag, the UN doesn't recognise your sovereignty and you don't have anything to negotiate. So you bring nothing to the negotiation table, unless you want to enlighten us?
@79 Doesn't matter what you teach in school, they're not your islands; never were, never will be.

You people don't seem to understand basic property rights, history or reality.
AHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHh
yoghurt.....MAlvinas will be brits until you can defend it........When the balance will be the other side....uk dominance is over.
Brazil(6 th economy,Uruguay,Argentina,Paraguay and Chile) wants the S Atlantic for us,the people who lives in the area..We do not want somebody living at 14000 km to upset us...Down with the brits imperialist!
86 GreekYoghurt (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 09:32 pm Report abuse
@85 “Malvinas will be brits until you can defend it' .... Hmm, overt underlying Argentinian need to invade the islands again.

I'm impressed that you are all able to leech onto brazil so successfully, and you manage to do so without having any pride whatsoever. Sadly brazil will drop you like a hot rock when it finds out you're in a state of hyperinflation again, regardless of how much you massage the figures.

”Down with the brits imperialist!”
87 lsolde (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 10:21 pm Report abuse
@85Malvinero1,
Now Malvin, don't start being silly again.
l thought that we'd cured you of AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHH. Or whatever.
Calm down mate.
88 The Falklands are British (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 10:31 pm Report abuse
87 Isolde

Malv's due his injection.
89 JORGE1982 (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 10:35 pm Report abuse
being friendly? We were very friendly with squatters during many decades, especially in the 70's. They got here free medical treatment, free education, we invested in the islands (YPF-LADE) for the well being of squatter providing them oil. We built a small airport because UK did nothing on the islands.

These are the most ungrateful “people” in the world.

P.S.: I just don't wanna think how much money we wsted on them!
90 shb (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 10:46 pm Report abuse
@malvinero 01
Ahaahahahaahahhaahahahaahahahhhahahahahahahah jajajajajak...........was probably the most intelligable part of your post. “well said insectosaurus”. From the rest of your rambling it looks like your meds have changed.

@academic - I bet you would like self detemination if some hostile foreign country wanted to occupy your land and haul its flag up over your home. I think that your claim to soverignty is A) full of holes B) based on half truths C) about 180 years behind the times.

What would you do if the Paraguayans demand back the land you annexed after the War of the triple alliance? I bet you would tell them to get lost. Thats the answer we offer you.

@hipolyte - we are'nt going to negoitiate soverignty with you. Ever.

When a foreign flag flies over your home, you are under occupation, armed or otherwise. you live at the wim of an alien government and people with motivations that may not gel with your way of doing things.

You can't surely be so naive as to believe your own post can you?

You know full well that there would be massive changes for the islanders.
91 Idlehands (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 10:55 pm Report abuse
89 JORGE1982

That's a bit like plying your neighbour with gifts and then complaining when he doesn't give you his home out of gratitude.
92 GreekYoghurt (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 11:07 pm Report abuse
@91 I still don't understand how legal systems work in South Argentina. It seems to involve demanding things and then just trying to take them. Morality seems to have nothing to do with any of it.

Savages.
93 JuanStanic (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 11:32 pm Report abuse
@80
You are right. What are school for after all? I mean. How can an Argentine decide which position he thinks it's better if he doesn't learn neither of them at school.

If anything they would be more easibly manipulable by propaganda.
94 briton (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 11:56 pm Report abuse
It seems CFK is the one in a minority, and its getting smaller,
Your glorious leader has taken her funny children’s case to the top of the world,
And it has got you precisely nothing,
So what else can she possibly do, she needs a quick victory or she may be finished,
Who is next on her list of conquests?
Because she will never get the British Falklands .
.
95 kbec (#) Feb 23rd, 2012 - 11:58 pm Report abuse
89 JORGE. Free education, free airport, but then you sent thousands of troops, made the islanders drive on the right and call the Falklands by the M word. After several attempts you gave their hometown a new (and I must say extremely silly) name. You used the post office as a toilet (which in our English speaking culture is downright uncivilised - post office for posting letters, public toilet for shitting in). Then after getting a thorough arse kicking you somehow send schoolchildren to comment on Mercopress arguing that you somehow wow the war. Yep, quite justified to be rather ungrateful. OK to remember 180 years ago, but don't like it when we remember 30 years.

92# Legal system also involves shouting a lot (presumably waving hands about) and using the word pirate.
96 GreekYoghurt (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 12:07 am Report abuse
@95 apparently all their senators are getting together on Saturday to say exactly...the...same...thing...again...They're reiterating the same 10 points again...as...if..no..one...knows...them... bringing.... nothing...to ...the ...table...just....demands.

It's no wonder that Argentinians never get anywhere in negotiations. They just bring nothing to negotiate, they must be utterly sh!t at business, which is why their economy is inflating quicker than my underpants.

Christina will say 1) Falklands is their's 2) about 50 hitleresqe slogans, like 'give peace a chance' 3) china supports us 4) economic sanctions... and at this point no one will be listening.

and yet, there will still be nothing to negotiate... just demands from the Argfags and more whinging.
97 briton (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 12:28 am Report abuse
and where should you put whining irritating things,
in the dusty bin, or the asylum .
98 Frank (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 12:41 am Report abuse
@91....

“That's a bit like plying your neighbour with gifts, --- then dropping in uninvited and crapping on the living room carpet --- and then complaining when he doesn't give you his home out of gratitude --- or even share a cabbage or two out of his garden.......”
99 JORGE1982 (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 12:50 am Report abuse
@95 You are totally wrong when blaming us for that. We (argentines) were the main victims of the dictatorship. We had dead, tortured and desapeared people and you come up with a shitted post office? Really?
100 briton (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 12:54 am Report abuse
no disrespect my friend,
but if that is [was ] the case,
then you should no better then, should you not, when it comes to the falklands , no exuses .
101 Lord Ton (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 01:12 am Report abuse
US support

falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/02/24/sensenbrenner-addresses-the-fig/
102 brit abroad (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 01:25 am Report abuse
EEEEEK!

Malv you wrote:
”Brazil(6 th economy,Uruguay,Argentina,Paraguay and Chile) wants the S Atlantic for us,the people who lives in the area..We do not want somebody living at 14000 km to upset us“

Do you have a swazstika tattoed on your forehead??? ”Us” meaning people of Southern European ancestry? The falklanders have done nothing to upset you and they are not 14000km away, and have as much of a right to live where they do as you do to live in Argentina. Has britain upset you? How? By whipping your ar%# in the 80's? It is the Argentinians who keep barking up the same tree and upsetting not only those people who live on the Falklands, but also British who really wish you guys would give it a rest! Come on, be fair! Us brits are busy enough without having to come to impliment displinary action for your school yard bully antics!

Concentrate on your football - you're good at that!
103 kbec (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 01:26 am Report abuse
#99 Blue on Blue mate. Argentines killing Argentines. Sorry to say this and nothing personal to you but it's in your countries culture - I hope for your sake the junta really is past history but there's no way you can guarantee it will never happen again - especially when you look at the aggression towards the islanders. Look at how close your president is with China, North Korea, Chavez, Syria, Iran all have shocking human rights records - yet you vote for her.
No doubt someone will now bring up Diego Garcia which personally i think was disgusting and am not proud of, but at least we re-housed them properly, didn't throw them from planes.
If you feel I am being racist or xenaphobic, I'm just trying to show you how Falkland Islanders feel about their aggressive neighbour. There has never been an apology from Argentina to the Islanders for the junta. The bullying is worse now than under the junta.
As for shitting in a post office, if you were British you would appreciate how shocking this really is. When I heard of this behaviour I had to sit down with a cup of tea (and one extra sugar). Post office is for sending letters, toilets are for shitting in.
104 tigre (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 02:15 am Report abuse
hello, we are all South American truth, that one you must not forget, today his beloved queen and a group of entrepreneur gets the oil and other renewable and non renewable in 50 years, no more oil Habera, the water and contaminated land and will be a population three times larger. a population that eats, it needs water, medicine and clothing,,, that the time that it will want to give Argentina that are spending,,,, acuerdesen that britain is ultracapitalista,, which no money is useless. knows that .... and Argentina should not accept it, bye South America
105 Malvinero1 (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 02:18 am Report abuse
US support

sensebrenner..AHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
That idiot of unsenses....He is an animal not even the conservatives likes him...Whatan IDIOT my God....lordy: ULTRA-IDIOT!!
106 tigre (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 02:40 am Report abuse
must learn to listen to your neighbor, you may have another point of view, and not attacking and insulting ..... a sign of his education, his words, bye American
107 brit abroad (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 03:24 am Report abuse
Ok who's with me here (i know Malv and Jorge wont be so neither of you need to respond)!!

SUPPORT THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLES OF ARGENTINA PARTY
(we could call it STIPOAP which i thinks got a good ring to it!)

Manifesto:
Reclaim the country that is rightfully theirs
I call on all, Mapuche, Kolla, Toba, Guaraní, Wichi, Diaguita-Calchaquí , Mocoví , Huarpe, Comechingón, Tehuelche, Quechua, Charrúa, Pilagá, Chané, Chorote, and the Selknam (Ona) people (who are now virtually extinct in their pure form) to get the ball rolling.

Get rid of (in Jorges words) hispanic squatters.
108 tigre (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 03:48 am Report abuse
them lived ones en las islas malvinas
109 hipolyte (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 03:58 am Report abuse
83 Xect (#) I believe we can be friends, luissuriani@hotmail.com

78 xbarilox (#) que te fumaste pibe ?? estás intolerante hoy ??
110 brit abroad (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 04:23 am Report abuse
tigre....

which indiginous people lived in the falklands?
All of them?

Come on! Pull the other one!

Outside of some small stone impliments found, there is no archeological evidence of any peoples living on the Falklands for a permenant (meaning settlement) period of time untill France established de facto control in the Falkland Islands, with the foundation of Port Saint Louis in East Falkland, in 1764.

Now if there were a people living there around this time it would have been the French who displaced them as it is fact, that outside of perhaps fishermen and traders from various countries world wide who used the islands as stop overs, there was NO peoples there at all!

I am not speaking for those people who live in the Falklands, but I would wager that they wou
111 tigre (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 04:47 am Report abuse
for brit abroad,,,, I will study the issue more, now I have to sleep, soon I have to get up for work, bye bye brit and for all the South American
112 brit abroad (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 05:39 am Report abuse
I didnt finish my point by hitting submit too quick, but i cant be a#$ed now!

You may say that I am a dreamer, but I think all of us should listen to a bit of J. lennon's “imagine” before we go to bed!
113 GreekYoghurt (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 07:58 am Report abuse
@102 “Do you have a swazstika tattoed on your forehead???”, No most Argentinians have their swazstika tattooed under the left foot. It's the same jackbooted foot that they keep the indigenous population and jewish people under.
114 lsolde (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 09:58 am Report abuse
@105Malvinero1,
Malvin, stop being so silly & childish.
The real reason that Congressman Sensenbrenner(now there's a mouthful!) is here is to offer us a deal on OUR oil.
Didn't you know?
You know, Malvin, Argentina could have, would have had a share in this RICH bonanza.
However, your hero, Nestór, tore up the agreement, like a spoiled child.
Now, me bucko, you'll get SFA, Zero/Cero, Zilch, Nada,Nuzzing, Rien, Null!
Lets hear it from you:- AAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHARRRRRRRRRRRGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
l think that l'll have 2 Mercedes-Benz. A pearl coloured one to drop the kids off at school & go shopping in & a bright red one so l can go uptown for coffee.
Bon Chance Malvinero1, you're going to need it when Argentina goes into meltdown.♥
115 GreekYoghurt (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 10:18 am Report abuse
@114 you cannot call the Dear Eternal Leader a spoiled Child. He is resting for the right time to regain his strength and lead Argentina into a period of global domination under Peronism.

In the meantime, why doesn't the falklands make itself a nice railway? Then people could go around the islands on the railway and have a cup of tea with those cake-tiers and maybe a slice of Battenburg cake? You could have a station closest to Argentina so you can stop and listen to them screaming with hunger once their hyperinflation is recognised globally.
116 malen (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 11:28 am Report abuse
82 I agree they are supporting br
and they call themselves intelectuals, when we are all born with intelecto, those who think different are not emotional only, can think also.
they can join a political party that expresses their point of view (they are ex progres). Menem has had another political on Malvinas, with people on favour and others not.
We dont need intelectuals to say that arg and br are using this subject with other purposes of distraction. we know that. But Malvinas is a complicated matter that needs to be studied a little. Recommend reading biased articles of MP, resolutions, etc.
The british are so innocent people...
117 lsolde (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 11:34 am Report abuse
........compared to the Argentines.
118 malen (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 11:41 am Report abuse
have you ever not been in war????
119 GreekYoghurt (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 01:34 pm Report abuse
Well to be honest, I think the falkland islanders are in a perpetual war with 9 invasions from Argentina in the recent past, it's difficult to put a time on when they weren't technically being invaded by their neighbour, therefore technically at war.

The only reason the Argies cannot declare war on the Falklands is because that would involve accepting they exist, which is against the constitution. Puts them into a fun stalemate.
120 Pugol-H (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 03:30 pm Report abuse
@118 malen

Have you?

There has never been a time when the British are not at war somewhere or other.
121 Idlehands (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 04:32 pm Report abuse
We do have rather a lot of experience. However from memory there were a couple of months in 1982 when there was nothing going on. Some foreigners were making a racket about something or other but a couple of marines with a tickle stick sorted them out.
122 briton (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 05:40 pm Report abuse
malen (#
The British are so innocent people, loveable honest considerate and happy,
Yes we are,
Swarve companionate determined robust, diligent sophisticated, charming brave much charisma,
Yes we are, British, and the best, are we not,
Now then abt how great Argentina is, ??????????
I thought so .lol.

.
123 malen (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 07:21 pm Report abuse
the british interests are always so innocent.....
124 GreekYoghurt (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 07:45 pm Report abuse
the argfags sleep on beds of lies...
125 reality check (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 08:05 pm Report abuse
What happened to my last message?
126 GreekYoghurt (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 09:38 pm Report abuse
@125 an argfag ate it for a snack on their bed of lies.
127 reality check (#) Feb 24th, 2012 - 11:16 pm Report abuse
hate to say this you may be right, last posting disappeared again!!!!!!!!
128 tigre (#) Feb 25th, 2012 - 01:33 am Report abuse
many Argentine and English are not going to like that I'll tell you, (I consider the Falklands to British or British) English when the Spanish colony we were still trying to invade us in 1806 and 1808 to obtain cheap raw material for so bourgeois was enriched more,,, since they could not by force, thought another strategy was associated with a few of the bourgeoisie, and exploited the country for several decade,, taking with natural resources and impoverishing its citizens, is that some not like cristina fernandez, but there is stability, many Argentines came out of poverty, some still in poverty. a part that does not have his chance and the other party will not work,
129 reality check (#) Feb 25th, 2012 - 02:02 am Report abuse
This is all bollocks (for you argentines reading this, its a british way of saying this is rubbish). Yesteday on Sky News, I watched a YOUTUBE video of a two year old baby boy dying, right in front of me on the TV screen, from shrapnel that pierced him under the arm. I watched a baby die! right in front of me. Thanks to the same technology that allows me to write this,and you to read it, in whatever the part of the world you live. Is any body out there getting my point. Please, whoever or whatever your god is. Lets get our priorities right, Malvinas?Falklands so fucking what! There are far worse and more pressing things going on in this sad world that we live in, that we should be commenting on and demanding action on. Who gives a fuck whether it is an Gaucho or a Tommy, who puts a stop to this, all that matters is that it is stopped. Please people all I'm asking is that we put our disagreements in perspective and agree that there are far more worse things in the world that unite us than seperate us. Why not take this opportunity to stand together and say, we argies and we brits agree we have problems, but they are nothing as compared to others, stand together , sort them out. Then come back as friends and visit our problems. I do not wan't to turn Sky News on again tomorrow and see the same. Yet my heart tells me it's inevitable because we are such shallow beings and none of us will stand for what we know is right, so next time I log on I''ll read more of the same crap. Shame!
130 JORGE1982 (#) Feb 25th, 2012 - 02:41 am Report abuse
Of course there are a lot of thing worse than Malvinas issue in the world, but we can't do anything to solve them, can we?

I can't solve middle east problems, I can't solve hunger in Africa, I can't solve any problem of this world.
131 reality check (#) Feb 25th, 2012 - 03:17 am Report abuse
Jorge
No you can't man,none of it. Nor would anyone expect you to, Least here you are discussing it with a brit. What I'm trying to say is that we have bigger problems to solve than the Malvinas/Falklands problem. It's all about priorities, what our two nations can try and I do mean try about them. Shit man, were talking! Not insulting each other, got to be good.
132 lsolde (#) Feb 25th, 2012 - 05:32 am Report abuse
@131 reality check,
The guts of the problem is mate, that the Argentines want OUR land, that is rightfully & legitimately ours.
We of course will not give it to them as they have absolutely no legitimate right to it.
We can prove that its our land while they cannot prove that its theirs & they invent all these myths & lies(which they really believe)to justify their ridiculous “claims”.
They refuse to go to the ICJ, as they know their “claims” would be laughed out of court.
They've invaded us a few times & been eventually ejected each time.
Now they have no military to speak of so can't try again, YET.
Because they cannot get what they want(complete surrender on our part!), they go crying to the UN & anyone else that will listen, spreading lies & insults.
Your second last sentence is what we won't do.
We will not talk to them as there is nothing to talk about.
Their idea of “negotiations” is merely a timeframe for the handover of our lslands & that is something that we will not do.
133 GreekYoghurt (#) Feb 25th, 2012 - 10:18 am Report abuse
The Argfags refused to go to the ICJ or Court of Arbitration many many many times... Argfags, they don't like the clarity that legal judgements bring.
134 Pirat-Hunter (#) Feb 25th, 2012 - 10:40 pm Report abuse
great! get all this supporters on a boat to UK and see if they UK will give this idiots passports or visa's to visit Islas Malvinas Argenmtina, they might as well sign slave trade and petition to becoming the new class of negro's in America.
”In 2005, Australia put in place a National Plan of Action against illegal fishing (pdf). Rear Admiral Tim Barrett, Commander of Border Protection says, “In 2006/07 specific funding was given to Customs and Border Protection and AFMA to deter illegal foreign fishing in northern waters.” The impetus for funding was propelled out of concern for protection of our own fish stocks, but also by a UN International Plan of Action, signed by 110 nations in 2001.

Between July 2007 and July 2008, 186 boats were apprehended, 141 of these were Indonesian-owned boats. The entire crews were arrested and transferred to immigration detention centres, their boats towed to the nearest port - most often Darwin - and burnt.”
www.abc.net.au/environment/articles/2011/12/13/3389001.htm
135 briton (#) Feb 25th, 2012 - 10:54 pm Report abuse
5 years 4 years and ten years out of date .
136 GreekYoghurt (#) Feb 26th, 2012 - 12:34 am Report abuse
Old news is old. Argfag faggotry is faggotry.

Have they learned how to negotiate yet? No, oh well. I guess we can just leave them alone then.
137 DanyBerger (#) Feb 26th, 2012 - 03:32 am Report abuse
@lsolde

It’s not what some UK politician think I guess.

www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=nRgRh6qjSs8
138 downunder (#) Feb 26th, 2012 - 06:07 am Report abuse
Its good to read some sensible ideas on the way forward for the Falkland Islands. Some altered attitudes are required.

By banning flights and other links from Argentina to and from the islands, Argentina is just perpetuating the old ways and reinforcing the mistrust and fear in the minds of the Falkland Islanders.

Argentina should formqlly abandon its soverenity claim to the Islands and, instead, embrace trade, communication and cultural links with the islands.

Eventually, these links will become strong and replave the old fears and mistrusts and both countries will benefit.

Any chance of that ever happening?
139 lsolde (#) Feb 26th, 2012 - 07:47 am Report abuse
@137 DanyBurger,
You'll have to do better than that Danyboy.
George Galloway is a discredited nutcase.
He snivelled to Saddam Hussein, who was guilty of mass murder.
Maybe thats why you malvinistas like him!
@138 downunder,
lts far, far too late for that now, mate.
lf they had done what you said many years ago then maybe we could have had a decent relationship with them.
lt will take many generations of them acting like good neighbours until we even talk to them.
Maybe in 200 years time, there again, maybe not!
140 shb (#) Feb 26th, 2012 - 10:01 am Report abuse
Hi downunder.

I agree with your sentiments - both sides would benefit from better realtions, however it's not going to happen.

The Argentines want us to unconditionally surrender our people who live there to their control. I have used the analogy before that its' a bit like giving the Germans control of the channel islands, then running up a swastika flag just to rub it in to the locals.

They are a nasty, land grabbing bunch that remind me of the Nazis - claiming their bit of lebensraum.

The Argentines are quite prepared to lie outrageously and shamelessly on the world stage to back up their demands, the big lie was another nazi tactic used to smear targets for conquest, just as the denial of self determination (by classifying target nations as inferiors undeserving of a voice) was another.

Actions speak louder than words - those people are trying to squeeze the economic life out the islanders and basically isoalte them from the outside world. They are not to be trusted. They would invade the Falklands again in a heartbeat if they thought they would get away with it.

They have gone out of their way to destroy any good faith we have in their intentions.
141 Ozgood (#) Feb 26th, 2012 - 12:52 pm Report abuse
@shb Someone is lying. There are always two sides to a story. The legal tenet is AUDI ALTEREM PARTEM

In this case I think that there are probably three sides - Argentina's, Britain's and the truth which lies somewhere in between.

Argentina is in no position to invade the islands. There is no opportunistic military junta in charge. The Argentines themselves chose the Kirchner government, CFK is simply a puppet or front woman for some clique
142 shb (#) Feb 26th, 2012 - 11:22 pm Report abuse
@Ozgood.

You have to look at some of the claims that the Argentines have made recently.

They humiliated themselves at the UN by trying to claim that we were militarizing the dispute and by claiming that the Falklands were more heavily defended than they are.

The claims about us deploying a trident sub to the area were frankly hilarious.

Don't be too sure about democracies not being prepared to launch wars of aggression.

I don't trust this CFK woman any further than I could throw a double decker bus. I hope they won't attack and believe it likely that they won't as long as we maintain adequate forces to repel them.

You are correct about their lack of ability to launch the same kind of invasion as 1982, they lack the amphibious capability as far as I can make out. However, never underestimate a determined foe.

Those people mean my country harm, and we must be eternally vigilant against them.

If we show weakness they'll go for it.
143 Ozgood (#) Feb 27th, 2012 - 04:37 am Report abuse
@shb
The following article on www.politics.co.uk/

Comment: Britain and Argentina's claims to the Falklands are equally meaningless

may be of interest to you and other readers

The Argentine writer Borges likens the conflict to two bald men fighting over a comb.
144 downunder (#) Feb 27th, 2012 - 08:26 am Report abuse
“Two bald men fighting over a comb” is not an apt description of what is going on between Argentina and the Falkland Islands.

Britain has a reponsibility to protect the Falkland Islands. I am sure that they would be more than happy to give the Islands self determination but unfortunately, they can't do this while the Argentine continues to agiitate for Britain to hand the Islands over to them. Their actions in blocking commercial and trade links is tantamount to a blockade.
If the UN was in any way partial it would be demanding an explantion from Argentina why it continues to behave in this way.
But it is good to read that not everybody in Argentina supports government policy on this issue, these people are offering a ray of hope and perhaps, point to a better future for the Islands.

The Falkland Islands will grow, despite Argentina's obstruction, and one day it will be in a position to join the other countries in the region as an independemt nation. Argentina may live to regret its belligerent behaviour towards the Islanders.
145 lsolde (#) Feb 27th, 2012 - 09:40 am Report abuse
Oh, they'll live to regret it alright.
The black stream will pass them by.
We don't & won't need them.
And we will never forget what they've done.
146 GreekYoghurt (#) Feb 27th, 2012 - 12:17 pm Report abuse
@144 sadly, one of the bald men is wearing an SS cap and the comb doesn't belong to him.

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