Argentine group insists with Falklands’ self determination and sharing natural resources
A group of Argentine intellectuals, academics and free-thinkers have criticized President Cristina Fernandez government strategy of confronting the UK on the Malvinas Islands sovereignty dispute and called for dialogue that guarantees the self determination of the Falkland Islanders.
“It is necessary to put an end to the contradictory demand from the Argentine government to open bilateral negotiations that include the sovereignty issue and at the same time it announces that the Argentine sovereignty over the Malvinas Islands is non negotiable”, said the paper “Malvinas: an alternative view” elaborated by the group.
“It is essential to offer real dialogue instances with the British and very especially with the Islanders” emphasized the paper.
“The (Argentine soldiers) fallen in Malvinas demand above all that we don’t again fall to the temptation of ‘cheap patriotism’ which took away their lives, nor use them as an element to sacralise positions that in any democratic system are debatable”.
The group which was scheduled to give a press conference on Wednesday to present the “Malvinas: an alternative view” paper, signed by 18 Argentine personalities, suspended the event following the tragic train accident in Buenos Aires and the two-day mourning decided by the government.
However the report described as an ‘invitation to reflection’ ahead of the 2 April 2012 anniversary commemoration of the South Atlantic conflict was released in the internet.
The initiative was criticized from the Argentine government by historian Mario Pacho O’Donell who argued that self determination for the population of the Malvinas was a “false argument”, and by Senator and former cabinet chief Anibal Fernandez who was far coarser in his criticism and said that the Argentine intellectuals are moved by ‘rancour’.
However the members of the group argued that in honour to the human rights treaties incorporated to the 1994 Argentine constitution, the Falkland Islanders must be recognized as people entitled to rights, which means respecting their way of life, and as expressed in the transitory clauses from the amended constitution means abdicating to all intention of imposing on them a sovereignty, a citizenship and a government they do not wish”.
Furthermore “the obsessive repeated statement of the principle “Las Malvinas son argentines” and ignoring or despising the submission that such a statement implies debilitates a fair and peaceful claim for the UK to leave the Islands, with their military base, and makes it impossible to advance towards a management of natural resources shared between the Argentines and the Islanders”.
The group also exposed the existence, in these days of a climate of “nationalistic agitation, again thrust by both governments (Argentina and UK), which seems to have caught hold of our leaders, both from government and the opposition, who proudly exhibit what they describe as a ‘State policy’”.
Argentina needs to abandon the agitation triggered by the Malvinas cause and elaborate an alternative view that helps to overcome the conflict, underlines the paper.
“Our worst tragedies have not been caused by the loss of territories or the lack of natural resources, but rather the absence of respect for life, for human rights, for institutions and essential values of the Republic such as freedom, equality and self determination”, says the report.
“Let us hope that April 2 and the year 2012 don’t lead to the usual escalation of cheap patriotic declamations, but rather help the Argentines, (elected officials, leaders and simple citizens) to jointly reflect and with no prejudice about the relation between our own errors and the failures of our country”.
Those who wish to adhere and sign the document, “Malvinas: an alternative view” can write to alternativamalvinas@gmail.com.
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This people only complain. Complain on water, on birthdays, on squares being that shape. People won't take this serious.
I agree with #1, people like these should be running Argentina, they realise that CFK is diverting attention from your countrys own problems and failings.
A fresh start is what is needed, a total and radical reform of your current political process. Until that happens, dialogue will never happen, and Argentina will be forever doomed to be the laughing stock it is.
The USA do NOT support you, the UN does not support you, and now your trying to win votes from the Caribbean, which will never happen. Because they also believe in Self-determination.
The reason why the UK refuses to enter a discussion with Argentina over sovereignty is because Argentina continues to say 'it non negotiable' and also the Islanders do not want it and the land is theirs. You cannot negotiate with someone who has said they demand a fixed outcome because there can be no negotiation in those circumstances.
It should be clear to Argentina the only part the UK plays in this is defense of the islands, politically, economically and militarily. If Argentina offered a different stance then the UK would become less relevant to the situation.
she opened a second front. in this situation she can cut everything. also salaries. she knows that she can´t follow her last policies of spending too expensive gifts. now she has the majority to take them back. those people who brought her to the second run, the “poor”, hoping to get even more will now be the victims. they must get another target: malvinas.
So they want a solution where the UK takes away their base, the islanders can do what they like, but the RGs can still steal their stuff?
What is it about dagos and thieving?????
Add “socially” to your three factors and that makes a comprehensive UK relationship with the Islanders.
Also, it depends on whether the statements by this Argentine group are sincere. Verification of positive attitudes is paramount after the past (and continuing )vitriolic comments from so-called responsible heads of government. There's an old saying along the lines that Argentina is to be trusted less when it is being friendly. Sad, but the reality is that marriages may be made in heaven, but counselling to build trust in failing relationships still occurs here on earth.
“This people only complain. Complain on water, on birthdays, on squares being that shape. People won't take this serious.” - Hypocrite, all you do yourself is complain about not having the falklands and about hardships you face and how you are the victims when really its the islanders that are the victims. It may not have occured to you but the authors of this “Falklands: An alternative view”, likely received a private education outside of argentina and outside of the indcotrination over the islands that you had to endure. They are for all intent and purposes far more educated then you youself are. And i find it laughable that you come on here and say people will not listen to them, when we have other argentine posters commenting on this very page that actually agree with them. Its beginning to look like you and the rest of the extremist argentines are becoming fewer and fewer in numbers everyday, with more argentines now waking up and realising what is happening to their own country and how serious the economic situation in argentina is getting, and believe me it will get a lot worser, before it gets any better.
On the one side you have the UK with its story.
On the other side you have Argentina with its story.
Where does the truth lie? OR Who knows the true history?
SOLO DIOS SABE
They still want to “share” OUR resources.
So there is a lingering feeling that we are on “their” land.
But it is a step in the right direction.
About as likely as a snowball in hell. Do you really think Argentina is ever going sharing some of its resources with Chile/Uruguay/Paraguay/Bolivia simply on the basis of good neighbourliness? Highly unlikely!
It will never change. Argentines have been indoctrinated with their version of what is right. Chavez and a few other spanish speaking banana republics are goading them on. My respect to these people who recognise the islands are someones home - but my advice to this alternative view group is to get the hell out of South America before they disappear.
There is no need to share resources @14 is correct. The likelihood of Argentina sharing their resources with the Islanders is zero, and shown by the fact they bring NOTHING to the negotiation table. They bring nothing and expect everything, is simply how an 'Argentinian Negotiation' works. You're not stealing anything if it was never theirs.
The principle of uti possidetis prevails, Argentinians.
Sounds more like asking for Danegeld than offering an olive branch to me.
The argies being typically nonsensical think they have a big box of self-determination to give to the Islanders. And in return for a share of the resources, they'll give the Islanders that box of self-determination.
That would last for 3 years, and the mercurial argentinians would get bored and want sovereignty again, just like their poor spanish friends who seem to not understand what the term 'legally binding' means.
Whilst we should never lose hope, great care has to be taken that this is not another argie ploy. I have said this before and I make no apology for repeating it. I see no reason for the Falklanders or Britain to trust the argies until the claim to the Islands is removed from their constitution and at least a hundred years has passed without a single incident. As an example, even when things are supposed to be “friendly”, argies don't seem to be able to control themselves. Was there not the incident in 2004 when the Almirante Irizar entered conservation zones under the jurisdiction of the Falklands and started demanding other vessels identify themselves? Hardly “friendly”.
I also mention the argie war cemetary. Has CFK not already said that the presence of argie war graves on the Islands increases argieland's claims? It might be very British and considerate but it makes no sense to put a weapon in the enemy's hands. Who controls where the argies that come to “visit the war graves” go and what they see?
For example they also claim that the British are agitating nationalistically too? Bueno, the British have made it very clear they will -defend- the Islanders right to sd. A political stance sure. But its reactionary more than provocative and British people on the whole really dont spend too much time thinking about The FI.
Also they are saying that Argentina still deserves a share of the resources in the FI. This is very wrong. They are not in a position to make this statement.
My spanish is not perfect so I could be wrong but the only Argentine I have heard who seems to be saying wholeheartedly that Argentina has no right to claim the FI in any form and is entirely hypocritical to do so is Martin Capparos. C0rrect me if I'm wrong.
As for affecting the psyche of 80% of Argentinians this report will change absolutely nothing. Its like trying to persuade a devoutly religious person to stop believing in God.
I agree with a lot of the document but have some reservations about this part too. In my view we should let the Falklanders do whatever they want with their islands and their resources.
“My spanish is not perfect so I could be wrong but the only Argentine I have heard who seems to be saying wholeheartedly that Argentina has no right to claim the FI in any form and is entirely hypocritical to do so is Martin Capparos. C0rrect me if I'm wrong.”
If you can read a little Spanish, you might find interesting this opinion piece by Argentine libertarian thinker Alberto Benegas Lynch. He advocates full-blown independence for the Falklands:
economiaparatodos.com.ar/ver_nota.php?nota=3385
Cheers.
article 51 of the charter to defend the islands, and this time we should make the war-zone the whole of Argieland.
@22 The Argentinian political parties are writing yet another joint statement to say the falklands are theirs, and they want the oil from the falklands. This is all they have. The only thing they have to take to a negotiation is a cessation of whinging. I don't think anyone feels apologetic, I think they just feel it's incredibly pathetic that a country could be this lame.
Hugh Bicheno believes it is a pointless claim too.
Your last paragraph is spot on. It has become an article of faith/belief to Argentines
Nice to know that he sees sense as well, but he is actually British -
“Hugh Bicheno was born in Cuba to British parents in 1948. He is a naturalised citizen of the United States, although he now lives in Cambridge, England, where he was educated”
I also had assumed he was Argentinian, until I read his book on the Falklands War, “Razor's Edge”
there are some other banana countries like China, did you know that ?
Brazil, Chile ( lan chile) and there is long list.
cheers mate.
@ 2 ¿Qué pasha Juanstanic, eshtash nervisho? Chupala Juan, seguila chupando. Que te regale las islas Cristina, ¿a ver? :)
False. I'm a active member of Movimiento Popular Fueguino, a Fuegian political party. I've been active in Jorge Garramuño's campaign for diputado(where he got elected). I take an active stance and help my party whenever I can. I have also colaborated in Sciurano's campaign “Ushuaia Magnifica” by planting trees. I also participated in the two last campaigns to clean Ushuaia's coast.
And this people shouldn't be running nothing. If they so much love their country and want to see it improve they would(anc can now anyway) acted in a proper way. Like going after a government post.
@10
So what with external education? I myself went to UAB in Barcelona under a UADE program, and I spent almost a year there. It's not like studying in another country should change your way of thinking.
And go ahead. Come here, go to the street and ask people. Ask people what they think. 50% won't care. 25% will agree. 25% will disagree. That's 75% of people who's not agreeing with it.
BTW, you got you facts wrong. Most of us know how the country is. We know inflation is 25%. Nobody denies that. Are we less capable of buying stuff? No. In fact, last year we bought a lot. This year we know economy is to grow more slowly. We may not buy as much as last year. So? Are we going to be unhappy? Maybe a bit upset but not unhappy. Is our financial system a proof that economy is not good? Maybe it is, maybe not. Corralito memories are fresh.
This guys are the comparative of the ones in London trying to abolish the Royal family...... I believe now you understand the meaning of this guys...
Democracy, is good !!! we let all the people talk, think and publish their ideas.
Couldn't have say it better.
The only part I disagree is maybe in freely publishing ideas, but thinking and talking is as free as breathing.
luissuriani@hotmail.com
thanks
www.economist.com/node/21548229
I fully understand that islanders want to remain British, but why? That's just a question to understand the point of view of the Kelpers ad I thought this place could be a good place to ask. Sorry if someone feels upset for this.
@34 You just ask yourself the same question, do you want to be a part of Spain again?
unfortunately, that is our nature, we will have a crisis, then again growing 9 % per year... that is our way of doing things, unfortunately.... we are a mix of European garbage... ( there are of course some good ones) however we have a couple of state policies and the biggest is the one over Malvinas, so sooner or later, we will be there again. Best you can do is to make a great agreements based on the UN scenario having the real English as referee.
Flag over the islands 3 colors ( light blue, white and yellow), then you do what ever you want to do with that rock. be smart...
#21 There was indeed a period in the mid/late '90's when we talked together to find ways to get on. This resulted in the 1995 Hydrocarbons agreement which created an area of special co-operation either side of the median line in the SW area. The 1999 agreement amongst other things formalised the SWA Fisheries Commission, to work together to preserve fish stocks.
From 2003 onwards the K regime worked to dismantle all areas of co-operation and good neighbourliness, preferring a policy of harassment and intimidation to try to get the Islanders to capitulate. It was then, and is now, both an immoral and futile policy.
Hope these good people will be allowed to continue to promote reasonable behaviour and rational thinking.
As long as we don't get back to the 80's hyperinflation(really unlikely), and we don't see a total change on our daily lives, what are we really worrying about?
After all, we went from eating a ton of beef to eating chicken in a couple of years because of prices. Are we worrying, unhappy or sad about it? No, we just miss beef, nothing else.
please answer the question as a educated person.
You just can’t get away with facts,
The islanders don’t want you,
They want nothing to do with you,
You have no rights to there island
And you will never get them,
Why does not Argentina pick on someone her own size,
In stead of a tiny little island,.
Bully .
.
I think the scenarios are very differrent, that is to say Arg Malvinas/Falklands and Spain UK, and as Hipolyte said; you should not answer a question with another question. That's unpolite.
By the way, thank you Hipolyte.
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 06:18 pm
Though not an islander I'll take a stab at answering that. For a start would you like somebody to insist that you are British rather than Argentine?
A further point is that islanders enjoyed a remote peaceful existence in the society they created but that was ruined forever in 1982. Since then they have been antagonised by Argentina and know that the life they currently lead would be changed again by Argentine sovereignty. There is no way that the islands wouldn't change if Argentina were to somehow gain sovereignty. Currently they rule themselves and create their own laws to suit their society. Why would they want to change that and become a small despised minority in a nation they have no cultural connections with and long and very bad experiences of?
It is simply too late for Argentina - they've played a poor hand badly.
in my town it is called pulling the ears...
“where were you educated ? in Camden town market”
You should try it before you knock it, you could learn a lot in a place like that.
Or do you just think you are so much better than some other people.
The fact you brutalised them in 1982 and continue doing so through any 'peaceful' mechanism you can think up just made it even clearer that no one wants to be a part of you.
It's that simple. If you cannot see that, then it's not our issue.
I need to be honest, I wish Malvinas to be Argentinean some day and I hope we Argentines and Kelpers could be friends some day as it was before the bloody war. However, I think the position Argetina has taken towards this issue is not correct and I hope it change someday.
@Hipolite! hehe that's the kind of English phrases that I want to learn “pull the ears” :)
Thanks for you point of view.
“It's that simple. If you cannot see that, then it's not our issue.”
I know it's not your issue, however, thanks for being clear and polite on this point.
No, there is always something to eat. Potatoes, pasta, the choices are multiple. Besides, the chicken thing took like 10 years to revert the consume.
We are sure hyperinflation won't come back because back then we were either in very bad shape(I really mean very bad) or under military. We may have some troubles today, but not enough to cause it. And taking Alfonsin as an example hyperinflation isn't good for any political career.
We are talking of 200% a year or more. We are talking about prices being changed 3 times a day!
And besides, as long as soy and beef keeps money coming in, the economic won't worsen much.
“pull the ears” - is not an English expression!
@51 hipolyte
This can happen even if you don't, “walk around looking down your nose at people”(this is an English expression Ricardito)
throw me the rubber
to bury the sweet potato
it is going to rain pieces of shit in vertical position.
this is just a funny play with english language, just for fun :)
Jajaja
Throw me the rubber.
You made me laugh a lot :D
Yesterday, I wrote for an exam and
it went me like the ass..
Thanks for your comment, you have explained your idea very clearly and in a polite fashion . Regards from Buenos Aires!
If any of the Argentine posters can put themselves in the shoes of someone from the Falklands you may understand their view of Argentina.
Argentina has attacked, bullied and made their lives difficult for many years now, it is only the might of Britain that protects and supports them. It's pretty difficult to see how such a nasty aggressor would be welcomed by the Falkland people.
Argentina however could change its stance, support the islanders and then over time the Falkland people may come around to seeing Argentina in a different light.
It is really Argentina's only choice given Argentina is clearly no match for the power of the UK when it comes to politics or military power.
The world is a worse place for Argentina's behavior towards 3,000 civilians who do not deserve to be treated this way.
You should know that if the argentine government were to recognize you the so-called “self-determination” right as if you were people, these 17 clowns would have done the opposite, since they are meant to oppose everything government does.
P.S.: There are no many more clowns like these here, but I can bet there are more islanders willing to talk about sovereignty, but they don't do it because the harassment of people like you Mike.
“Camden is great - you should pay it a visit. It's not particularly good for shopping but it's a great day out to sit with a beer and watch the world go by. It's a 'weird and wonderful' place.”
Yeah, yeah especially for drug dealer, pocketing stilling and that kind of stuff.
I would like to be able to contact you or any other posible Islander as I have some questions to do regarding business in the Islands and I think this is not the place to ask.
You shuould also know that there are many Argtinean that look forward for a nice and peaceful dialogue with the Kelpers. Unfourtunately, we know that's way do far away due to the international disputes we have recently had. So sad :(
Hmm.
@68 The people of the islands are peaceful and would enjoy nothing more than friendly dialogue with the decent majority of Argentine people. I don't look badly on your people because of your despicable government. There are good people everywhere but sometimes they aren't represented by good people.
If you don't see it, that's not my issue ;)
I see your comment is very positive, that is what we all need.
I do offer you to go to my house in Mendoza and to taste my wines ( I go there 4 times a year) I hope you can have a summer house in Patagonia or in Mar del Plata... I would love to take you to our ski center and have a great friendship, I hope you can do the same with me, however if you don't, no worries, i understand you.... there is a 40 million country trying to get your house, your job, your school, your everything..., well, the thing is that if you are very smart you will just keep all of it, and you will gain a better position as a SPECIAL province administrated by the UK or better than that, by the ENGLISH ISLANDERS, please understand sovereignty is something over the soil, not on our house, your life.... if you have the Argentinean flag over there, and you KEEP your citizenship as English, and you KEEP your driving way by left and you KEEP your economy and currency, there is nothing to loose for you, you will just have a closer university, a closer hospital and a closer friendly country, you just need to put effort on the agreement and keeping our argentine police ,argentine “language” off of the islands, you will have all you need, just be sure my government put IT''S SIGNATURE on the UN. and then keep your islands, we don't want to go there to do anything, we know it is very hard to live there and we are lazy, we just need our flag over the islands, you can keep the buildings, language, style of life etc. as simple as this... We have a democracy, take advantage of it.
sovereignty is something and THE ONLY THING we will not negotiate with you, the rest is yours.
My invitation to Mendoza is real, and I know you know about our wines, because you can find them in any store in London.
Come to Mendoza and see how we are, you have the perception of Cristina and the war, well believe me that is not the truth.
The Falklanders should ask him if they can immigrate to his Malibu mansion and share his $150 million.
Most don't use it anyway. In high school we are teached the historical claim. At most the geographic claim is teached in primary school.
@79 Doesn't matter what you teach in school, they're not your islands; never were, never will be.
You people don't seem to understand basic property rights, history or reality.
Which historical claim? The claim that although Argentina never had a real administrative body on the islands, at one time, some people who would eventually become Argentine, were there, therefore the islands are yours?
That's not a historical claim. It's “brainwashing for dummies”.
like i said in another comment, all the opinions are respectable, but what is really shamefull, are the terrible omitions that all those so called intellectuals do.
Fisrtly, they should know that actulay it's the u. n the one that never invoked the right to self determination for the this case, in none of the resolutions that were expressed for the malvinas-falkand cause, like it did with others colonial situations. Beside, what is interesting is that there is not any critic by them respecting the rejection by the u. k. to resume the negotiations, all they do is to criticicise the policies of the argentine government, i think that this omitions show clearly what's actualy what they deffend.
On the other hand, there is something important that you must know, all those intellectuals, or unless most them, are antikirchnerist, and the giornal were the alternative was published, was in la nación, one the most antikirchnerist newspapers of the country, they talk about human rights, and they publish the aternative in a giornal which has supported all the dictatorships, and still criticises the trials agains the criminals of the militar regimen, isn't contradictory and hipocrite?, the only one good aspects that la nación has, is that a few of it's giornalists are exelent, i have a friend who works there.
If they want to talk about self determination for the islanders, they should propose in the alternative, to take the dispute to the i. c. j, that's the only one way to know if that principle is really applicable or not for this cause. However, if none of the two parts proposes it, it's because both aren't sure that they can win theacse. So, beyond the fact that this kind of article must be a placer for most you, you must know others issues which are behind this so called alternative.
@Hypolyte, thank you very much for the kind offer, I appreciate it and would not mind talking to you more!
In terms of sovereignty I do understand the Argentine position but you need to also understand the Falklander's position. Argentina has done many nasty things to the islanders and they are skeptical of anything Argentina offers but if Argentina can prove over some years its open, supportive and friendly then maybe this view set will change.
This is the only way the situation will change as the UK is far, far too strong for Argentina in any sense and as it stands the islanders fear Argentina and its tactics so right now there is zero chance of them being willing to talk about sovereignty however like I said if Argentina can show itself to be trustworthy and friendly this view may change and the islanders could in the distant future (30+ years would be my guess) to review their allegiance to the UK since the UK does support self-determination as it has proven time and time again since the Empire was dismantled.
It was good talking to you gentlemen anyway and enjoy the weekend!
So anyone who disagrees with you is a “clown”?
Argentine “democracy” in action.
@72hipolyte,
Unfortunately for you, we don't want your flag flying over OUR lslands.
You will have to find somewhere else to colonise.
@79 Doesn't matter what you teach in school, they're not your islands; never were, never will be.
You people don't seem to understand basic property rights, history or reality.
AHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHh
yoghurt.....MAlvinas will be brits until you can defend it........When the balance will be the other side....uk dominance is over.
Brazil(6 th economy,Uruguay,Argentina,Paraguay and Chile) wants the S Atlantic for us,the people who lives in the area..We do not want somebody living at 14000 km to upset us...Down with the brits imperialist!
I'm impressed that you are all able to leech onto brazil so successfully, and you manage to do so without having any pride whatsoever. Sadly brazil will drop you like a hot rock when it finds out you're in a state of hyperinflation again, regardless of how much you massage the figures.
”Down with the brits imperialist!”
Now Malvin, don't start being silly again.
l thought that we'd cured you of AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHH. Or whatever.
Calm down mate.
Malv's due his injection.
These are the most ungrateful “people” in the world.
P.S.: I just don't wanna think how much money we wsted on them!
Ahaahahahaahahhaahahahaahahahhhahahahahahahah jajajajajak...........was probably the most intelligable part of your post. “well said insectosaurus”. From the rest of your rambling it looks like your meds have changed.
@academic - I bet you would like self detemination if some hostile foreign country wanted to occupy your land and haul its flag up over your home. I think that your claim to soverignty is A) full of holes B) based on half truths C) about 180 years behind the times.
What would you do if the Paraguayans demand back the land you annexed after the War of the triple alliance? I bet you would tell them to get lost. Thats the answer we offer you.
@hipolyte - we are'nt going to negoitiate soverignty with you. Ever.
When a foreign flag flies over your home, you are under occupation, armed or otherwise. you live at the wim of an alien government and people with motivations that may not gel with your way of doing things.
You can't surely be so naive as to believe your own post can you?
You know full well that there would be massive changes for the islanders.
That's a bit like plying your neighbour with gifts and then complaining when he doesn't give you his home out of gratitude.
Savages.
You are right. What are school for after all? I mean. How can an Argentine decide which position he thinks it's better if he doesn't learn neither of them at school.
If anything they would be more easibly manipulable by propaganda.
Your glorious leader has taken her funny children’s case to the top of the world,
And it has got you precisely nothing,
So what else can she possibly do, she needs a quick victory or she may be finished,
Who is next on her list of conquests?
Because she will never get the British Falklands .
.
92# Legal system also involves shouting a lot (presumably waving hands about) and using the word pirate.
It's no wonder that Argentinians never get anywhere in negotiations. They just bring nothing to negotiate, they must be utterly sh!t at business, which is why their economy is inflating quicker than my underpants.
Christina will say 1) Falklands is their's 2) about 50 hitleresqe slogans, like 'give peace a chance' 3) china supports us 4) economic sanctions... and at this point no one will be listening.
and yet, there will still be nothing to negotiate... just demands from the Argfags and more whinging.
in the dusty bin, or the asylum .
“That's a bit like plying your neighbour with gifts, --- then dropping in uninvited and crapping on the living room carpet --- and then complaining when he doesn't give you his home out of gratitude --- or even share a cabbage or two out of his garden.......”
but if that is [was ] the case,
then you should no better then, should you not, when it comes to the falklands , no exuses .
falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/02/24/sensenbrenner-addresses-the-fig/
Malv you wrote:
”Brazil(6 th economy,Uruguay,Argentina,Paraguay and Chile) wants the S Atlantic for us,the people who lives in the area..We do not want somebody living at 14000 km to upset us“
Do you have a swazstika tattoed on your forehead??? ”Us” meaning people of Southern European ancestry? The falklanders have done nothing to upset you and they are not 14000km away, and have as much of a right to live where they do as you do to live in Argentina. Has britain upset you? How? By whipping your ar%# in the 80's? It is the Argentinians who keep barking up the same tree and upsetting not only those people who live on the Falklands, but also British who really wish you guys would give it a rest! Come on, be fair! Us brits are busy enough without having to come to impliment displinary action for your school yard bully antics!
Concentrate on your football - you're good at that!
No doubt someone will now bring up Diego Garcia which personally i think was disgusting and am not proud of, but at least we re-housed them properly, didn't throw them from planes.
If you feel I am being racist or xenaphobic, I'm just trying to show you how Falkland Islanders feel about their aggressive neighbour. There has never been an apology from Argentina to the Islanders for the junta. The bullying is worse now than under the junta.
As for shitting in a post office, if you were British you would appreciate how shocking this really is. When I heard of this behaviour I had to sit down with a cup of tea (and one extra sugar). Post office is for sending letters, toilets are for shitting in.
sensebrenner..AHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
That idiot of unsenses....He is an animal not even the conservatives likes him...Whatan IDIOT my God....lordy: ULTRA-IDIOT!!
SUPPORT THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLES OF ARGENTINA PARTY
(we could call it STIPOAP which i thinks got a good ring to it!)
Manifesto:
Reclaim the country that is rightfully theirs
I call on all, Mapuche, Kolla, Toba, Guaraní, Wichi, Diaguita-Calchaquí , Mocoví , Huarpe, Comechingón, Tehuelche, Quechua, Charrúa, Pilagá, Chané, Chorote, and the Selknam (Ona) people (who are now virtually extinct in their pure form) to get the ball rolling.
Get rid of (in Jorges words) hispanic squatters.
78 xbarilox (#) que te fumaste pibe ?? estás intolerante hoy ??
which indiginous people lived in the falklands?
All of them?
Come on! Pull the other one!
Outside of some small stone impliments found, there is no archeological evidence of any peoples living on the Falklands for a permenant (meaning settlement) period of time untill France established de facto control in the Falkland Islands, with the foundation of Port Saint Louis in East Falkland, in 1764.
Now if there were a people living there around this time it would have been the French who displaced them as it is fact, that outside of perhaps fishermen and traders from various countries world wide who used the islands as stop overs, there was NO peoples there at all!
I am not speaking for those people who live in the Falklands, but I would wager that they wou
You may say that I am a dreamer, but I think all of us should listen to a bit of J. lennon's “imagine” before we go to bed!
Malvin, stop being so silly & childish.
The real reason that Congressman Sensenbrenner(now there's a mouthful!) is here is to offer us a deal on OUR oil.
Didn't you know?
You know, Malvin, Argentina could have, would have had a share in this RICH bonanza.
However, your hero, Nestór, tore up the agreement, like a spoiled child.
Now, me bucko, you'll get SFA, Zero/Cero, Zilch, Nada,Nuzzing, Rien, Null!
Lets hear it from you:- AAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHARRRRRRRRRRRGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
l think that l'll have 2 Mercedes-Benz. A pearl coloured one to drop the kids off at school & go shopping in & a bright red one so l can go uptown for coffee.
Bon Chance Malvinero1, you're going to need it when Argentina goes into meltdown.♥
In the meantime, why doesn't the falklands make itself a nice railway? Then people could go around the islands on the railway and have a cup of tea with those cake-tiers and maybe a slice of Battenburg cake? You could have a station closest to Argentina so you can stop and listen to them screaming with hunger once their hyperinflation is recognised globally.
and they call themselves intelectuals, when we are all born with intelecto, those who think different are not emotional only, can think also.
they can join a political party that expresses their point of view (they are ex progres). Menem has had another political on Malvinas, with people on favour and others not.
We dont need intelectuals to say that arg and br are using this subject with other purposes of distraction. we know that. But Malvinas is a complicated matter that needs to be studied a little. Recommend reading biased articles of MP, resolutions, etc.
The british are so innocent people...
The only reason the Argies cannot declare war on the Falklands is because that would involve accepting they exist, which is against the constitution. Puts them into a fun stalemate.
Have you?
There has never been a time when the British are not at war somewhere or other.
The British are so innocent people, loveable honest considerate and happy,
Yes we are,
Swarve companionate determined robust, diligent sophisticated, charming brave much charisma,
Yes we are, British, and the best, are we not,
Now then abt how great Argentina is, ??????????
I thought so .lol.
.
I can't solve middle east problems, I can't solve hunger in Africa, I can't solve any problem of this world.
No you can't man,none of it. Nor would anyone expect you to, Least here you are discussing it with a brit. What I'm trying to say is that we have bigger problems to solve than the Malvinas/Falklands problem. It's all about priorities, what our two nations can try and I do mean try about them. Shit man, were talking! Not insulting each other, got to be good.
The guts of the problem is mate, that the Argentines want OUR land, that is rightfully & legitimately ours.
We of course will not give it to them as they have absolutely no legitimate right to it.
We can prove that its our land while they cannot prove that its theirs & they invent all these myths & lies(which they really believe)to justify their ridiculous “claims”.
They refuse to go to the ICJ, as they know their “claims” would be laughed out of court.
They've invaded us a few times & been eventually ejected each time.
Now they have no military to speak of so can't try again, YET.
Because they cannot get what they want(complete surrender on our part!), they go crying to the UN & anyone else that will listen, spreading lies & insults.
Your second last sentence is what we won't do.
We will not talk to them as there is nothing to talk about.
Their idea of “negotiations” is merely a timeframe for the handover of our lslands & that is something that we will not do.
”In 2005, Australia put in place a National Plan of Action against illegal fishing (pdf). Rear Admiral Tim Barrett, Commander of Border Protection says, “In 2006/07 specific funding was given to Customs and Border Protection and AFMA to deter illegal foreign fishing in northern waters.” The impetus for funding was propelled out of concern for protection of our own fish stocks, but also by a UN International Plan of Action, signed by 110 nations in 2001.
Between July 2007 and July 2008, 186 boats were apprehended, 141 of these were Indonesian-owned boats. The entire crews were arrested and transferred to immigration detention centres, their boats towed to the nearest port - most often Darwin - and burnt.”
www.abc.net.au/environment/articles/2011/12/13/3389001.htm
Have they learned how to negotiate yet? No, oh well. I guess we can just leave them alone then.
It’s not what some UK politician think I guess.
www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=nRgRh6qjSs8
By banning flights and other links from Argentina to and from the islands, Argentina is just perpetuating the old ways and reinforcing the mistrust and fear in the minds of the Falkland Islanders.
Argentina should formqlly abandon its soverenity claim to the Islands and, instead, embrace trade, communication and cultural links with the islands.
Eventually, these links will become strong and replave the old fears and mistrusts and both countries will benefit.
Any chance of that ever happening?
You'll have to do better than that Danyboy.
George Galloway is a discredited nutcase.
He snivelled to Saddam Hussein, who was guilty of mass murder.
Maybe thats why you malvinistas like him!
@138 downunder,
lts far, far too late for that now, mate.
lf they had done what you said many years ago then maybe we could have had a decent relationship with them.
lt will take many generations of them acting like good neighbours until we even talk to them.
Maybe in 200 years time, there again, maybe not!
I agree with your sentiments - both sides would benefit from better realtions, however it's not going to happen.
The Argentines want us to unconditionally surrender our people who live there to their control. I have used the analogy before that its' a bit like giving the Germans control of the channel islands, then running up a swastika flag just to rub it in to the locals.
They are a nasty, land grabbing bunch that remind me of the Nazis - claiming their bit of lebensraum.
The Argentines are quite prepared to lie outrageously and shamelessly on the world stage to back up their demands, the big lie was another nazi tactic used to smear targets for conquest, just as the denial of self determination (by classifying target nations as inferiors undeserving of a voice) was another.
Actions speak louder than words - those people are trying to squeeze the economic life out the islanders and basically isoalte them from the outside world. They are not to be trusted. They would invade the Falklands again in a heartbeat if they thought they would get away with it.
They have gone out of their way to destroy any good faith we have in their intentions.
In this case I think that there are probably three sides - Argentina's, Britain's and the truth which lies somewhere in between.
Argentina is in no position to invade the islands. There is no opportunistic military junta in charge. The Argentines themselves chose the Kirchner government, CFK is simply a puppet or front woman for some clique
You have to look at some of the claims that the Argentines have made recently.
They humiliated themselves at the UN by trying to claim that we were militarizing the dispute and by claiming that the Falklands were more heavily defended than they are.
The claims about us deploying a trident sub to the area were frankly hilarious.
Don't be too sure about democracies not being prepared to launch wars of aggression.
I don't trust this CFK woman any further than I could throw a double decker bus. I hope they won't attack and believe it likely that they won't as long as we maintain adequate forces to repel them.
You are correct about their lack of ability to launch the same kind of invasion as 1982, they lack the amphibious capability as far as I can make out. However, never underestimate a determined foe.
Those people mean my country harm, and we must be eternally vigilant against them.
If we show weakness they'll go for it.
The following article on www.politics.co.uk/
Comment: Britain and Argentina's claims to the Falklands are equally meaningless
may be of interest to you and other readers
The Argentine writer Borges likens the conflict to two bald men fighting over a comb.
Britain has a reponsibility to protect the Falkland Islands. I am sure that they would be more than happy to give the Islands self determination but unfortunately, they can't do this while the Argentine continues to agiitate for Britain to hand the Islands over to them. Their actions in blocking commercial and trade links is tantamount to a blockade.
If the UN was in any way partial it would be demanding an explantion from Argentina why it continues to behave in this way.
But it is good to read that not everybody in Argentina supports government policy on this issue, these people are offering a ray of hope and perhaps, point to a better future for the Islands.
The Falkland Islands will grow, despite Argentina's obstruction, and one day it will be in a position to join the other countries in the region as an independemt nation. Argentina may live to regret its belligerent behaviour towards the Islanders.
The black stream will pass them by.
We don't & won't need them.
And we will never forget what they've done.
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