The other side of the Rattenbach report on Malvinas war praises Argentine forces
The Rattenbach report on the performance of the Argentine armed forces during the 1982 invasion followed by the Malvinas war has been officially de-classified and Rosendo Fraga, an outstanding Argentine historian and political analyst reveals some details, which contrary to popular belief, far from condemning praise the performance of Argentine forces.
The report was ordered by the outgoing military Junta and was ready for its release before the first elected democratic government of then President Raul Alfonsin who took office in late 1983. However since some chapters were particularly damning of the ruling Junta as commanders of the conflict, allegedly it was rapidly classified and expected to be kept secret for 50 years.
Nevertheless Fraga points out that at the time (1983) a copy of the main body of the report was filtered to the press by one of the officers involved, General Tomas Sanchez de Bustamante with the purpose of helping the incoming weak civilian government as well as trying to upgrade the credibility of the Argentine armed forces.
General Benjamin Rattenbach who led the group of six officers, (two from each service), because of his seniority, as so many young officers of his generation (including General Juan Peron) was an admirer of the Axis and had pictures taken in Germany with Hitler.
Fraga points out that the main text does not include two attachments longer than the one leaked to the press. In effect the harsh criticism of military leadership of the Malvinas war is well known and clearly identifies the officers involved, even suggesting the firing squad in some cases.
The whole report has four main parts, in fifteen chapters with almost 900 parts and Fraga reveals some of those he considers most relevant.
Chapter VII, Part III (Assessment and Critical analysis) after strongly criticizing the Commander in Chief of the Argentine Army, nevertheless indicates in points 605 to 609 that field and air defence artillery, commando companies, cavalry exploration squadron, helicopters support and some elements from Infantry regiment 25 displayed a high degree of “training and professionalism, as well as an adequate commando action which was evident during the defence of Puerto Argentino (Stanley) where they had an outstanding performance”.
In other words, says Fraga, the report clearly praises the performance of the majority of the Army units involved in the fight in the Falklands.
The actions of the Commander in Chief of the Navy are extremely criticized and addressed in points 611 to 614 but in 615 it refers to the Navy’s air force.
“The A4Q operated from the continent and together with the recently incorporated Super Etendard inflicted damages out of all proportion in respect to previous analysis of relative power taking into account elements such as own means, opposition means and the operational environment influence”.
There is a special mention in point 616 to the Marines Battalion, which was involved in ground fighting during the defence of Puerto Argentino (Stanley) with ‘outstanding performance’.
The commander of the Air Force is addressed in points 617 to 619, and contrary to his peers there is acknowledgement of his procedure.
Further on point 620 says that the training of combat personnel was in line with the demands of war. Pilots had to experience and take to practice unprecedented attacks on surface war vessels; however the lack of specific training for this kind of combat together with the great technological capacity and dimension of the enemy force, caused many losses of lives and equipment.
Point 622 says that in spite of these limitations to adequately sustain a conflict in a sea-air theatre, when fighting broke out the Air Force commander accepted the disadvantages and risks and sent all his resources into battle.
Finally Chapter XV with the conclusions states in point 882 that there were numerous acts of extraordinary valour both in the Armed Forces and Security Forces in the theatre of operations giving evidence of the plenitude of the best Argentine military traditions.
“We must be proud of the nobility with which the Armed Forces of the Motherland acted, which in no moment infringed the rules of war by participating in actions contrary to the ethics of troops in combat such as attacking troops, vessels or aircraft involved in rescue operations.
Point 884, leaving aside the outcome of the war conflict “our Armed Forces can be satisfied of their actions during the combat since they faced a first rate world magnitude supported politically and logistically by the United States”.
Finally 885, if in such conditions “our Armed Forces were able to inflict damages out of all proportion to the UK Joint Task Force, to the point it was forced to display most of its amphibious forces, we can affirm that they have gracefully accomplished with their duty”.
Historian Fraga ends his analysis saying that the Rattenbach report praises the actions of the Argentine Armed Forces as such, leaving aside the errors of military command, which have been the most publicly known side so far.
“On the 30th anniversary of the beginning of the South Atlantic war it is fair to remember this side normally hidden of the Rattenbach report”.
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So not only did they deploy their best troops, planes etc. they also had the advantage of holding the islands and still they got their arses smacked.
Just shows you what crack troops the UK forces are. Proud of each and every one of the British troops who forced a colonial power from our sovereign territory.
If Argentina was 90% German ethnic origin Britain/the Falklanders would have something real to worry about.
*facepalm*
of course, given the Germans sounding success in not only one but two world wars.
Its not very often in history that a nation has been able to fight two major wars on multiple fronts and comprehensively wipe the floor with the opposition, the fact that we had to gang up on Germany to eventually win speaks words for the martial prowess of the German army and people in both wars.
Strategicus makes a good point, the Argentine military had a startling contempt and lack of urgency for the threat posed by their British adversaries in 1982, their intelligence and threat assessments were lazy, their preparations were lazy, even the defence of the islands was fought in a lazy manner, Mendez seeming content to leave troops in strategically vulnerable positions doing very little accept waiting for the enemy, even the FAA was lazy in its actions, attacking the first ships it could find as opposed to hitting the ones that mattered i.e supply/troop ships, most reports from UK troops about the conscripts and officers pointed to a force which apparently just really couldn't be bothered to do anything right, the mine legacy is one such example....the order of the day being to toss them out from helicopters whenever they felt like it.
What next praise for exterminating 100,000 children and young people after raping and torturing them?
Fucking NAZIS
History is about documents and artifacts, not events.
The events are inaccessible. So everything is subject to interpretation and interpretation is inherently unstable.
An Historian works in the present. He just puts his verbs in the past.
“was”, “were”, etc.
But he doesn't link language to reality. He links language to more language.
This, ladies and gentlemen, is the key for understanding what is about to unfold in the 21st century.
That's why E.O. Wilson the great biologist often referred to as the Darwin of today, said that the great divide in the world now is NOT between rich and poor, or between the races or sexes. It's between those who know science and those who don't.
Why? Because science links language (theory) to reality (data).
Argentinians do not link language very well.
By the time they can, and it's unlikely they will, the demographic will have changed so much it won't matter anymore.
In any event, in terms of history, though it is about documents in the present and not the past, there is still such a thing as a responsibility toward those documents and the historical narrative one creates. In short, there is such a thing as intellectual honesty.
But not in Argentina. Why? Because there's no such thing as honesty period in Argentina.
They don't have a disciplined intellect. They don't have disciplined emotions.
They are a child-people who refuse to grow up. And that is why they are so xenophobic. Because closed-minded, narrow-hearted people fear one thing above all else - Exposure. They have no boundaries among themselves and rigid boundaries with outsiders.
Fraga's version of events is glorified gossip.
Besides no country of Mama's Boys could ever have a military that can do anything more than play dress up, like the children they are.
In Argentina, they are socialized so that the men are boys and the women are men.
How could they possibly have an army that can fight?
“the mine legacy is one such example....the order of the day being to toss them out from helicopters whenever they felt like it.”
Their pilots had be training for the previous 15 years chucking children and teenagers out of their aircraft the same way... after they had tortured and raped them!!!!
And you can expect more of the same, whenever and wherever it's needed. The US are our kin and it was their Admirals and Generals pushing out stockpiles in 82 without approval. While Regan offered us an aircraft carrier battle group. Which we turned down.
Fact is McClick all your country is good for is raping, torturing and murdering left wing children and mounting fascist coups. Keep sucking that corporate cock boy, you know they love you.
God forbid !
I am not from Argentina ....
I am from Northern Hemisphere....!
The only difference is that now we know there is no blood in their lies system, and we'd be prepared and ready.
BECOUSE
This conflict derived from 1850 treaty between Argentina--UK had made
which says (Convention and Settlement Agreement ) settled all differences and created perfect relations between these two nations and the islands remain British control.the Argentina Government in 1888
protesting this treaty and offering to take the matter to arbitration.Of course Britain refused and considered matter was closed.Argentina Governments did not protest British until 1941.
Both are right.....their perspectives are different...seems unsoluable...
Argentine Army - P*ss poor
Argentine Navy - Cowards
Argentine Airforce - Courageous
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/9155011/Peru-cancels-visit-by-British-frigate-over-Falkland-Islands.html
He likes to pretend to be a westerner but is from Argentina and if there was any doubt his language skills are clearly those of someone who has learned English as a 2nd language.
I have to say I have respect for the Argentine armed forces, not because they are good at what they do but because they stuck it out against the vastly superior British armed forces even if they massively out-numbered the British. The fact they knew there was a crushing defeat coming and they stayed there takes some bravery in my opinion.
And the Argentine Air Force did extremely well.
Anyway RIP all armed forces servicemen who lost their lives on both sides.
Aussie Sunshine is another one and there's a fair few others pretending to not be from Argentina on here too.
Maybe they are ashamed of where they are from?
Never heard of that country.
.
When they thought Britain was finished. Oops backed the wrong side :))
Sadly they're totally disconnected with the people on the ground, and end up becoming the voice of the media, which they can read from abroad. They end up feeling even more guilty, never becoming a part of their new nation and end up depressed.
This is typically for lots of migrants.
Mar 25th, 2012 - 07:55 pm
Ooh. Well spotted that blogger.
in 41' they were on the wrong side and nothing has changed
About me, I live in Argentina, and I am not a fan of my country. It is just not difficult for me to choose between supporting media corporations that sell lies (to argentinians, to me, to you, to everybody) and transparent information. It is not even a matter of ideology, it is a matter of accessing serious information to start a debate.
Most debates in Mercopress start with news that do not tell the whole story of a topic or start with headlines that are complete lies sometimes.
I know you will say that I am a person brainwashed or something like that, but well... I have no choice to go on telling the side of the story I believe in and to support democracy, human rights, peace... I do not like playing the game corporations like, that game's name is fascism.
I am also very critic of Argentina, we had a very awful military junta and it is something to be really ashamed, that is why I support a lot of decisions taken by CFKs Government nowadays, because they take Argentina into a deep and organic democracy. I know some of you believe the opposite, it is a shame really, because you are giving credit to corporations that give a sh?t about you or about me or about any nation, they just love money.
Apart from Malvinas, UK, Argentina or whatever. Can we at least agree that the last thing that will make the world a more SECURE place is WAR??
Look at this image:
www.borderexplorer.org/2009/07/4th-of-july-quotes-from-howard-zinn.html
Argentina or the UK may be discussing about these islands, but it is really nothing that involves the massive killing of people, another societies really suffer the WARS, in the US a lot of ex-soldiers commit suicide very day.
Simply put they are cowards. There is no other word for it.
Be care on my comment writing time is not from Argentina where 05.38 right now.
“” Murray's Future Fund brace is broken “”
www.cis.org.au/
end of,,,,
Yes, The Argentine Airforce were a long way from the Falklands and it was a long round trip. It was dangerous and no one would say that the pilots were not courageous. However, the Sea Harrier pilots had to take off and attack often in atrocious weather and then find their way back to their carrier and then land on a pitching deck - even more difficult than heading for your own country and safety. For them it was find your ship or ditch in the sea.
Because of the R.N.'s missile systems, the Argentine Airforce had to attack at low level. The bombs were fused to allow the aircraft to escape before they detonated. Attacking as they did, the bombs in many cases had not enough time to arm and so failed to go off. Was this a thought out strategy by our naval commanders ? Ship losses were expected - even the loss of a carrier.
Critics wrote off the Sea Harrier as no match against its supersonic rivals.
However, they were proved totally wrong. I can remember an US Airforce General commenting on the possible outcome of the air war. He had seen and witnessed the Sea Harriers performance against the best NATO fighters.
His quote was “It will be like hawks against chickens”
No doubt , we will get postings from The Argentinians saying “if we had moved our best fighters to Stanley then things would have been different” Possibly so.
If the RN had kept its proper carriers with Phantoms, Buccaneers and Gannet AEW then the invasion would never have taken place.
You refer my name ?
The only thing we cannot agree on is whether Argentina will cause another one, because lets face it, they will.
You say :
I am Doctor Don.......
I say :
I know “” Doctrine of Lapse “”.....!
( 32 )
You refer my name ?
Ah ,an intelligent think, we thinks ?
.
Say no more, Thank you !! :-))
Doctor Don .....
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctrine_of_lapse
unless one is refering to the new evolved version, by CFK .
now thats recent .lol.
Tell you what, one way or another, we are going to DESTROY you gangsters. Just give us an excuse. I don't think you understand what you could face. British forces, ex-forces and innumerable ordinary people would gladly travel to the South Atlantic to turn you lot into MUSH!
You don't want a WAR? That's fine. There's a bunch of Islands. I forget the names. They BELONG to US. BACK OFF!
@30 You are having a problem with your keyboard. But we understood anyway. You said “I'm Queer and take suppositories all over the world!”
@39 There hasn't been a “brain” on Cuba in the last hundred years.
MistyThink + TipsyThink = PissedThink.
If I recall it gets its anticapitalist stance from a blend of Bolshevism and gets its ultranationalist stance from a type of neo-Fascism called Strasserism which was popular in Germany. That was itself a common component of German Nazism.
So you can hardly call them “populist lefties with a strong social agenda” well, that's only a part of the story, but you can also call them a bunch of anticapitalist fascists, and you'd still be right.
Gin mixed with White Wine + Chocolate = What a wonderful world !
Oh, I almost forgot, they had to go back to the mainland for a rest and will be back soon. They wish.
Political analyst Rosendo Fraga reminds me of Ian Richardson in the brilliant 'House of Cards' programme, only he lacks the intellect of the 'Francis Urquhart' character but retains all the smarmy looks:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylu3x72WHTs
But are you sure Mrs. Tatcher didn't want a war? It was what she needed indeed... And war was the perfect excuse... The UK knew it couldn't go too far claiming the sovereignty of the Islands through diplomacy...
And please be sure that some corporative groups in the UK are always happy to celebrate wars, it is their business.
45 Conqueror@ HAHA please! you are not helping the side you support showing that xenophobic attitude. Your words sound like a character from a movie really. This is my favorite part of your comment: “we are going to DESTROY you gangsters” HAHAHA. I really don't know if you are really serious or if you are just trying to bring some humor to these discussions.
Maybe typing these authoritarian paragraphs is your way of feeling masculine or brave or smth like that?
I will leave the image again:
Look at this image:
www.borderexplorer.org/2009/07/4th-of-july-quotes-from-howard-zinn.html
For all those little-minded people that thinks war defend their rights and little lives.... how silly, soldiers work for corporations and many of them die thinking they do it for their flag...
Malvinas vs Falklands: Negotiations with the U.N.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vys78sGB7Y
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