Wednesday, September 19th 2012 - 02:00 UTC

UN calls on Argentina to stop eviction of indigenous peoples from their lands

United Nations Special Rapporteur on Indigenous Peoples, James Anaya called on Argentina to cease the eviction of indigenous communities from their lands, during the presentation of the annual report of his office before the UN Human Rights council in Geneva.

The usurpation of indigenous lands is common practice argues Special Rapporteur on Indigenous Peoples, James Anaya

The report requests “the suspension of all process and administrative actions to evict indigenous communities from their lands until a full technical-juridical procedural survey of lands occupied by the indigenous peoples is completed”.

“The grave legal insecurity in indigenous lands has been reflected in the high number of indigenous communities’ evictions” points out the report elaborated on data collected by Anaya during a mission to Argentina in 2011. Anaya and his staff besides Buenos Aires City visited ten of the 23 provinces and completed 170 testimonies.

The Argentine delegation replied that under the current Emergency Law, (26.160) evictions from these lands has been suspended until 23 November 2013, but admitted that “after verifying the absence of the requirements demanded, there have been evictions”.

Argentina’s ombudsman office supported the report saying he “continues to receive” claims from members of the “Mapuche community Lof Paichil Antriao in the province of Neuquén, the Qom people of Formosa, the Omaguaca people of Jujuy and the Wichi from Salta”. They all claim that the Emergency Law is not being complied.

The head of the Argentine NGO Human Rights Standing Assembly, Rodrigo Gomez Tortosa has been quoted saying that the emergency law has “a very low degree of compliance” and accused the authorities from the northern province of Formosa for “the threats and aggressions suffered by the indigenous leader from the Qom community, Felix Diaz, who is in litigation “over the usurpation of land by provincial officials.

According to official data the indigenous population totals 600.329, which is equivalent to 1.7% of the 42 million Argentines, although other sources mentioned by Anaya estimate the number closer to 2 million made up of 30 autochthonous peoples, settled mainly to the north and south of the country.

The problems of Argentina’s indigenous stems from the “historic de-possession of vast tracks of their lands by ranchers and the big farming, oil and mining corporations which operate in the lands claimed by these communities” which lack “a legal acknowledgement of their lands according to their forms of use and occupation” concludes the report presented by Anaya.
 

238 comments Feed

Note: Comments do not reflect MercoPress’ opinions. They are the personal view of our users. We wish to keep this as open and unregulated as possible. However, rude or foul language, discriminative comments (based on ethnicity, religion, gender, nationality, sexual orientation or the sort), spamming or any other offensive or inappropriate behaviour will not be tolerated. Please report any inadequate posts to the editor. Comments must be in English. Comments should refer to article. Thank you.

1 Boovis (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 04:54 am Report abuse
But...but...it's what the country was founded on, they can't stop now!!
2 BLACK CAT (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 05:22 am Report abuse
Guzz whats your thoughts on this story?
3 Iron Man (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 06:14 am Report abuse
Well they must do this, the UN has said they must....surely they can't ignore the UN while calling on others to comply with it? That would be double standards and Argentina doesn't have those. Does it?
4 LEPRecon (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 06:16 am Report abuse
Ah, the imperialist colonial Argentines strike again.

The Argentine government really are hypocrites, aren't they? Accusing the British of colonialism, when in fact it is them.

But I forgot. The UN fully supports Argentina, doesn't it? Or is that another Argentine government delusion.
5 Alexei (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 06:24 am Report abuse
They really should take this to Argentina's cronies at the discredited UN Decolonisation Committee, before it's scrapped.
6 Santa Fe (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 06:49 am Report abuse
RG's must stop stealing indigenous lands off the natives!!! NOW
cant see how the trolls can swamp this debate. Maybe the old distract and change the argument ruse. Dont let them!!! STOP this Colonialism now Argentina.
7 Gordo1 (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 07:06 am Report abuse
But Argentina has been practicing this since its foundation - nothing new! They want to do a similar thing with the Falklands Islands and still believe they have the right to do so! Will they never learn that their arrogance will always bring them down.
8 Orbit (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 07:57 am Report abuse
Just checking the scores ... Yes, it's confirmed, it's game set and match to the Falkland Islanders. There is no way back from this.
9 Frank (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 08:22 am Report abuse
This thieving habit is hard to break.

In Argentina we are seeing what you get when you cross a fascist with Sicilian mafia stock......

No trolls around today? funny that....
10 Britworker (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 08:59 am Report abuse
Tut tut tut, now this is colonialism!
11 malicious bloke (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 09:08 am Report abuse
It's exactly as Roger Edwards pointed out to the C24:

“do human beings not have human rights if they reside on a piece of land that Argentina wants?”

It would seem not. Thieving Argie scum gonna thieve.
12 KretinaK (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 09:12 am Report abuse
The first land that should be taken back is the land that scrotum neck CFK stole to build her disgusting and tacky hotel “Los Sauces Casa Patagonica” in the south of Argentina. I can't wait for the IMF to ban Argentina's fake statistics, Argentina is fraud, it's government is fascist and fraudulent and needs to disappear!
13 malen (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 09:18 am Report abuse
Nothing wrong...there is a law, respet it.
Indegenous, criollos, mestizos, descendientes de inmigrantes, we are all argentines, with the same rights.
Indegenous were colonized by Spain. We then mixed and so together fought for independence. We were all a new people.
We shouldnt be invaded by foreign countries, but it happened. Foreign countries never never had a right to be here.
perhaps we should tell some foreign mineras, that are taking land to exploit our resources and affecting indegenous communities, to go away (some british ones). the glaciers law is going to be implememnted. because these companies are a real bunch of robbery.
14 Zool (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 09:28 am Report abuse
Colonialism in the 21st century pure & simple. Well done UN for finally calling Argentina out & for handing the Falkland Islanders a MAJOR propaganda coup.
15 Frank (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 09:29 am Report abuse
TROLL ALERT!

Anyone care to translate that tosh for me?
16 Idlehands (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 09:35 am Report abuse
I love the way that the Argentines descendents of Spanish colonialists claim to be the exploited victims of colonialists. Get it into your heads guys that it was your forefathers that murdered their way across south america. They were not the victims. Once they's conquered the entire territory they then turned their guns on those that had paid for them to get there in the first place - ie Spain.
17 briton (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 09:46 am Report abuse
One word here,
[HYPOCRITS]

And the indocronoughts stay well away from this page and the truth.
.
18 malen (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 09:48 am Report abuse
Idlehands 300 years of colonialism and subjugation, so we were 6.000.000 of new people against thousands of realistas. It is a right you have to fight against that thast oppress you. And its so simple to understand.
And nice to see some people mixing sport with politics..you have always said that is bad.. on badminton, I dont know what it is, wouldnt care either, but Flickind or for UK?? trained by UK to play in an international competition???A laugh.
www.penguin-news.com/index.php/news/sport/item/429-falklands-badminton-players-to-brazil
19 Idlehands (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 09:56 am Report abuse
Yes it is simple to understand that you'd rather paint yourselves as the victims rather than the killers - whatever the truth of the matter. Isn't this article about the way you continue to subjugate the indigenous population? I assume you agree they have the right to fight. Maybe we should arm them.
20 briton (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 10:05 am Report abuse
Idlehands 300 years of colonialism and subjugation

you have no idea,

but then again we supose argentina could have done better...
21 David Cameron (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 10:13 am Report abuse
Is this the same UN that the Argentinians run to every time when they plead that the Falklands is theirs to plunder. seems the table has been turned on them and the UN now sees Argentina as colonists. Better keep your Muppet Ambassadors away from the UN for the time being Argys they now have your number and know what your really like
22 malen (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 10:19 am Report abuse
No. There is law, and it is not been implemented in all cases.
Implement the law again, and thats all.
Spain as a conqueror foreign country was who murdered ( and many, many) and subjugated us. do you have doubts??
23 Idlehands (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 10:20 am Report abuse
You've gotta laugh. The world is flat and the moon is made of cheese.
24 LEPRecon (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 10:25 am Report abuse
@22 - malen

The fact that the UN has noticed means this has gone way beyond not following the law to government policy.

Try to disguise this anyway you wish, but the truth is that colonialism is alive and kicking in Argentina, as you continue to steal land off the native inhabitants.

That makes your government hypocrites, and the world can see you for what you are.
25 Captain Poppy (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 10:31 am Report abuse
Where are the cyber K's and troll ????
26 malen (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 10:35 am Report abuse
no. natives have the same rights arg have.
in a colonial situation they are denied laws that protect them. the contrary happens here.
it is not a matter of colonialism this situation.
it is a matter of law.
read our constitution. their rights are there too. we are all part of the same country.
27 Frank (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 10:35 am Report abuse
It would appear that Malen is a 'free range' troll who is no longer under Campora control....
28 Zool (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 10:35 am Report abuse
Malen what happened after Argentina got it's independence, Oh that's right your ancestors carried on the slaughter of the indigenous population & continued to seize more & more of their land so stop trying to deflect what happened to the Spanish.
29 kelperabout (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 10:52 am Report abuse
At Long Last the UN has done something positave. They are now telling Argentina what the Falkand Islanders have been telling them all along that it is not right to steal anothers property. This is the start of the world seeing dictators for what they are.
30 LEPRecon (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 11:29 am Report abuse
@26 - malen

You cannot defend these actions. This is not a few people breaking the law, this is government policy.

In other words, colonialism. I mean, your ancestors stole the land that is now Argentina, and to compound matters, you continue to disposses the native Amerindians of their land. Why? Because in the eyes of the government these people are not true Argentines, so are not important, and its okay to steal their land.
31 CJvR (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 11:48 am Report abuse
Argentina never fails to live down to expectations. It seems as if imperialist colonial ambitions against the Falklands isn't enough anymore.
32 Musky (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 11:56 am Report abuse
@26 malen
So it's the argentine law to evict people who've been their in the forests and the jungle for 100,000 years before you guys passed a law. Jesus, you unjustly claim unsurpation of the falklands and carry on doing it yourselves, such a disgrace. good luck to the amerindians.
33 Room101 (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 12:07 pm Report abuse
Evicting Argentinians from their land.
34 v for victory (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 12:13 pm Report abuse
This is disgraceful after all that has been said about the people of the Falkland Islands, UK, Europe etc. I hope some of the contributors who hold the Argentine government in such high regard will now petition their government to change course!

If the UN is watching the rest of the world should be made aware at every opportunity, if the rightful people of those areas are not protected by lax argentine “laws” already in place, economic sanctions should be applied.
35 Conqueror (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 12:30 pm Report abuse
@13, 18, 22, 26 Unfortunately for your incoherent, incomprehensible, weaselly attempt at justification for your crimes, you argie scum just carried on dispossessing, killing, murdering, exterminating the indigenous people, didn't you? In fact, you've never stopped. Shall we remind you of the “First” Conquest of the Desert in 1832? Or would you prefer to gloss over that? Do you have heroes like Aldao, Huidobro, Quiroga and de Rosas? Murderers all. Using Remington rifles against native people who only had spears and bows and arrows. Then we mustn't forget your massive hero, Roca. Who instigated the “real” Conquest of the Desert and whose solution was to extinguish, subdue or expel the actual owners of the land. And even then you weren't satisfied. You've just carried on. Have you ever tried telling the truth?
36 briton (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 12:32 pm Report abuse
There is law,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

you have no idea what law is.
37 Yuleno (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 12:33 pm Report abuse
LEP.This failure to honour commitments and to condemn colonial occupation of land by the use of force in the past is hypocritical.Argentina is guilty of this form of behaviour.Every day,globally,you will hear of the dispossession of a people of their land.This is not a crime of any specific government but a crime of capitalist mode of accumulation.It will not stop until enough people object to this behaviour by their state representatives and,more importantly,endure the consequences of this curb on capitalist freedom.
We can start with Pascua Lama,Belo Monte ,and perhaps the Welsh.
38 Captain Poppy (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 12:55 pm Report abuse
Yulena where else in the world (outside of SA) is capitalism, in this day and age, evicting indigenous people from there land?
39 malen (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 12:55 pm Report abuse
35 do you want me to repost the article where many many british and from others nationalities went to Patagonia and killed many many indegenous???
Let me find it, because it was one of you that post it on this forum time ago.
40 Pete Bog (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 01:07 pm Report abuse
Where are all the Argentine trolls now?????????????

There's Malen spouting some intelligible crap, but where's the rest of his mates banging on about how the UN is on Argentina's side?

Are they eating the five tons of leftovers that Maximo the Elephant Seal leaves after every meal?

Your lying, hypocritical regime has been caught out hasn't it?

With its diapers firmly around its trembling ankles.
Like it was found out in 1982.

Like it will be everytime it spouts rubbish about having exclusive support from the world and the UN.

So the UN are REALLY cross with Argentina, but of course Argentina has its pompous, big headed, head up its jacksie colonialist, imperialist attitude that means it considers itself EXEMPT from UN pronouncements( but the UK apparently is ignoring them).

Well, you Malvanista frauds, if you are so concerned that the UK is rejecting UN non-binding resolutions naturally you will be telling that pre-madonna who dictates to you that she must obey the UN.

So before you bang on about Chagossians or your lies about pirates, Argentina needs AGAIN to sort its own problems out.

Argentina has just handed the Falkland Islands a PR gift.

Thank you CFK, may you be re-elected because you are the best chance the Falkland Islands has got to bury the fradulent Argentine claim for their country.
41 Alexei (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 01:21 pm Report abuse
Many of these same indigenous peoples were conscripted, dressed up in Argentine uniforms and sent to the firing line on the Falkland Islands to be slaughtered. Thank God most of them surrendered which at least allowed the British to disarm and peacefully repatriate them.

What the hell is wrong with the Malvinistas? The land they've already stolen is vast, so much wasted empty territory that the bankrupt and corrupt state cannot manage or effectively use it. Yet still they want more, and they still don't care one jot about the people who live there, and have lived there for hundreds or thousands of years.
42 v for victory (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 01:25 pm Report abuse
Malen, your arguments are weak. Except that you govenment is hypocritical and do something about it. i.e. help ALL the people in SA you keep bleating on about by voting out CFK when you first get a chance. Shameful!!!
43 TipsyThink (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 01:30 pm Report abuse
UN calls on USA to stop eviction of indigenious peoples from their lands.

UN calls on AUS
44 Raul (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 01:41 pm Report abuse
26 and 39 malen

Malen is absolutely right. English is all hypocrisy.

Indigenous people have the same right that the Argentines. Also it is not a question of colonialism, is a question of law.
Furthermore ranchers and English companies collaborated with Julio A. Rock in the extermination and genocide of Indigenous in Patagonia and Chaco. Indeed applied extermination methods applied in Africa, India and Pakistan. Just read the book of Osvaldo Bayer in “Rebel Patagonia”
In 500 years of history England continues its colonialism and imperialism in the 21st century. She is the creator of white supremacy and racism.
Just observe humanitarian bombing civilians in Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan. This is easily verified by the response of victims in retaliation for the bombing of civilians carried out by Britain and France and the U.S. logistics.

Mercopress complicit silence does not publish denials of citizenship Arab embassies in the United States and England by geneocidio made ​​by these colonialist and imperialist powers.

face1354@hotmail.com
45 TipsyThink (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 01:46 pm Report abuse
UN calls on AUSTRALIA to stop eviction of indigenous peoples of their lands.
46 Captain Poppy (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 02:21 pm Report abuse
Tipsey who is USA for indigenous people are we evicting. Are you talking history or current events?
47 EnginnerAbroad (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 02:24 pm Report abuse
@44

It would seem to me that the hypocrisy runs both ways wouldnt you? Regardless of who helped who it was official government policy in Argentina to white-wash the nation and seize the resource rich Patagonian south for the white european descendents. In the same way as British collinisation siezes resource rich other nations. The big difference for me is the UK government (maybe not all the people who are ignorant of history) acknolleges its collonial past this is why the organsation known as the commonwealth exisits and the same way in which the UK pays billions of pounds in foreign aid to former collonies to assist in their economic development. The difference is that it was the Argentine government which has made the argument in front of the UN that the Falklands must belong to them because they British are collonial overlords and that all lands seized by collonial actionss should be returned to their former people, whilst not even acknollgeing that the vast majority of the nation known as Argentina was seized throught the same collonial actions. This I am afraid makes Argentina the bigger hypocrite because it refuses to even acknollege its own collonial history in an attempt to take an even decreasing moral high ground on the subject of the Falklands. I udnerstand you are saying that there is a law in place to stop this but if the government wanted to it could prosecute those responsible it chooses not to and as such it amounts to agreement in the actions of those commiting the evictions. A law is only effective if the government is willing to enforce it. I would suggets all that shouting at the UN has brought a little to much attention closer to home. Why should the UK discuss handing back the Falklands when you wont discuss handing back Patagaonia to the natives to whom it by the Argentines own UN arguments it belongs to.
48 bushpilot (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 02:45 pm Report abuse
@malen #22

“No. There is law, and it is not been implemented in all cases.
Implement the law again, and thats all. ”

I want to ask about this statement. It claims the law was created, it just wasn't implemented in all cases. Now, just implement the law.

Does this mean that the lands that were taken since the law was created, but not implemented, will be returned? Or just that no more land can be taken?

Does the land taken since the law was created have to be given back?
49 axel arg (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 02:52 pm Report abuse
I already knew about these demands, i have heard about them a few months ago, there is still a big social and moral debt with our brothers who belong to the originary populations, some of them are still victime of powerfull masters who expeal them from their lands with the purpose of planting soya. In the reform of our constitution of 1994, it was included in the chapter fourth, article 17th which refers to the duties of the congress, and signalizes as a duty of it, the fact of signalizing the preexistance of the indigenous populations, provide legal status to their lands, regulate the the giving of lands, etc etc, in fact, last year were restituted lands to the curruhinca population from neuquen, which constitutes a historic reparation by the argentine state to those populations, but there is still a lot to do for them. Many ignorant people, who publish comments here everyday, and who criticise our claim for the islands, make ignorant comparisons, emphasizing the occupation of the argentine state over the patagonia, and consider our claim like colonialism, this is evident that you don't realise about how rediculous and ignorant you seem everytime you make such a medicre analysis.
However none of you know about the fact that despite the genocide that the argentine state committed with the originary populations in patagonia, and despite there is still a lot to do for those populations, our state included their rights in our constitution, and all the governments must take note of their demands, in the last 9 years the situation of many of them improved so much, but there is still a big debt with them. Now my question is, did you do any historic reparation for arg., for having deprived it from the islands in 1833?, of course you didn't, and you won't, but unless it would be better if many of you, including your politicians study more, and search more information before making such ignorant comparisons, like what you often use to do.
50 EnginnerAbroad (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 03:03 pm Report abuse
@malen

Your argument that Spanish collonists “mixed” with the natives in order to establish an indepdent (which suggests they did for a “love” of an indepdent nation) is as nonsensical as me suggesting that the hundreds of thousands of Indian Sepoys who fought for the British Army and East Indian Company against other indian kingdoms (India was only united as a single nation under British Rule) in collonial Indian did so out of a “love” for the British. The truth is that in both cases the natives were forceabably recruited to fight for their oppresors, (By forced I mean threatened, bribed or did so due to escape the poverty of their former lives). If it was the case that they did so out of “love” why did the Nation of Argentina (founded in 1816) continue to collonise natives lands right up to the begging of the 19th Century (Conquest of the Desert 1870). In addition if there are foreign companies who are respoisbile for the evictions then why is the federal or provisonal govenments not preventing this from happending? YPF (the government owned oil compnay) are currently developing the Vaca Muerta Shale gas reserve in Southern Mendoza and Neuquen in an area only collonised by Argentina in the 1870s and therefore the rightfull propoerty of the those evicted from the land at that time (this is the same argument used by the Argentina government in the Falklands). Remember also that rights for the indiegnous people of Argentina were only incoporated into the Argentine consitution in 1994 which were based on provicinal laws dating back to 1985, prior to this they had no rights.

www.focal.ca/publications/focalpoint/413-march-2011-maria-delia-bueno-en
51 LEPRecon (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 03:17 pm Report abuse
@49 - axel

Your entire post is drivel. Argentina was created by colonialism. The native people's have no voice. The Argentine government is allowing this to happen, by ignoring the law in favour of profits.

This is now so widespread that the UN has noticed. Argentina is ignoring its own laws and denying these people their human rights.

As for the Falklands, well neither you or any other malvinista has been able to put forward a credible argument regarding Argentinas claim. And no matter how much you try to deny it, Argentina wants to colonise the Falklands, which is against the wishes of the only indigenous population the islands have ever known, and therefore illegal in international law.
52 EnginnerAbroad (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 03:31 pm Report abuse
@49

First off I appreciate the cool and rational way in which you present your argument. However, please refrain from refering to people as ignorant have having a different view to yours. It is far more likely that different view points are not being made out of ingorance but of an examiantion of different data. I would doubt you are as well informed on the British arguments and evidence in the same way i doubt I am as well informed on the Argentina evidence and arguments. It is througth an examination of the two that we reach a better understanding, an understanding that is only inhibited by calling the other part ignorant.

Whilst I agree with you the two situations are not entierly the same the point is that similarties can be drawn between the two. For example you state that the Argentine government has helped to repatriate certain indigenous people, however they have only been given their land back they are still subject to the laws, regulations and governmental systems of the Federal Republic of Argentina i.e. they have not been granted the right to truelly re establish themselves as a people in a comparaiable way to that which they enjoyed priot to Spanish collinisation. You may not be aware that the Islands also have a constitution which guarnatees the rights of all those living on them regardless of race, creeed, sex age etc etc and that Argentines are permitted to live and work on the Islands (in fact at least one Argentine citizen does) they are allowed to own land in the same way as any other islanders. In this way should those who were “evicted” in 1833 (and this is far from an established truth, with evidence existing to suggest that over 50% of the population remaining after 1833 where of Argentine descent) they can and are guanteed the same rights as British citzens, however they are required to live under the laws of the islands in the same way as the Indegnious population are required to live under the laws of Argentina.
53 Santa Fe (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 03:32 pm Report abuse
Trolls dont cloud the subject as usual. We are talking about NOW, CURRENT POLICIES...not the USA killing Indians or Australia being horrible to the Aboriginals...this is HISTORY.

This is happening NOW in RG land shame on you.
54 Yuleno (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 03:47 pm Report abuse
38#poppy you obviously know little about the situation of the indigenous people of the world since capitalism expanded.Still you will no doubt get out of your blinkered opinions and inform yourself so that you appear well read and intelligent another time.
LEP unfortunately you are more interested in defending the status quo and profiting from the gains of your country's past,than addressing the current injustices against people who interfere with nobody but get in the way of capitalism's progress.Im disappointed but not suprised.
55 LEPRecon (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 03:56 pm Report abuse
@54 - Yuleno

Please clarify what you mean in your post.

You say “LEP unfortunately you are more interested in defending the status quo and profiting from the gains of your country's past,than addressing the current injustices against people who interfere with nobody but get in the way of capitalism's progress.”

Just where do I state all these things?

Is the okay to dispossess people of their land because of capitalist progress? In fact, many Argentines are constantly criticising the former British Empire for just so acts, yet fail to connect those acts with what has happened and is happening in Argentina.

That's hypocritical, isn't it?
56 Captain Poppy (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 04:35 pm Report abuse
So no answer then yuleno? Are you an indigenous person?
57 Santa Fe (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 04:40 pm Report abuse
No spinning out of this trolls, this is the nail in your coffin
58 Pirat-Hunter (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 04:51 pm Report abuse
We have Malvinas Argentina for the mapuches it was their land before and they're still welcome to go there and set up their own community any time the UN says so. There is no natives in Argentina the only natives Americans are living in Canada and USA. Lol UN should be looking into Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan where natives are being executed with UN members weapons and terrorists. UN doesn't support Muslims women and children, but only cares for resources and land theft, UN is a mob of killers and thieves.
59 JoJo (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 04:56 pm Report abuse
Engineer abroad:
We're on the same side don't worry, but I just wish to make a small but in my view important point.

You say: “Why should the UK discuss handing back the Falklands when you wont discuss handing back Patagaonia to the natives to whom it by the Argentines own UN arguments it belongs to.”

There is nothing to discuss about “handing back”, all the historybooks tell me that the Falklands were never Argentine in the first place. Whereas discussions about handing Patagonia back is an issue between Argentina and the natives, if any are still remaining.
60 Conqueror (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 04:58 pm Report abuse
@49 You stupid, ignorant liar. I call you that for a simple reason. You appear here from time to time spouting your garbage, but you NEVER provide evidence of your assertions. Even your ridiculous “survey” is simply a re-hash of peronist propaganda. Here's a few FACTS for you. Britain landed and established settlements on the Falklands in 1690. That's provable because the Islands were named after the 5th Viscount Falkland who financed the expedition. There were no other human inhabitants. The French didn't arrive until 1764. Britain claimed the Islands in 1765 by right of prior occupation and possession. That established British SOVEREIGNTY. In 1766, Spaniards BOUGHT the French settlement. That's it. They just BOUGHT it. Next came the Falklands Crisis of 1770-1771. Spain sent FIVE frigates and 1400 troops to force the British from the Islands. Britain mobilised for war. The Spanish caved in, restored all British goods and chattels that they had seized and paid compensation. The British returned. British sovereignty re-established. In 1767, Britain evacuated its settlements for economic reasons. Sovereignty was NOT relinquished. In 1820, a bunch of colonists of the Spanish Empire, in rebellion against its lawful government, sent a pirate to the Islands. Legal? I think not. After the BRITISH government gave permission for a commercial venture on the Islands, the “businessman” became a pirate. The U.S. government sent a frigate to remove the “expedition”. Too stupid to get the point, the rebel Spanish colonists tried to start a penal settlement. But the garrison murdered its commander on arrival. And Britain returned to re-establish law, order and British rule. Only FOUR of the “settlers” left with the illegal colonial garrison. Reparations for a bunch of criminal rebellious colonial trespassers? Lucky they didn't get shot! We left that until 1982. How do you see Round 3?
61 Santa Fe (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 05:01 pm Report abuse
58.... You don't respect the UN now, thought they supported Argentina
62 EnginnerAbroad (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 05:10 pm Report abuse
@59

Well spotted you are right in that I should not of used the word “back”. I Was trying to present the argument from an Argentine point of view in order to highlight the hypocrisy of the Argentine governments position over the islands. I.e. that the Islands belong to use because they were stolen from us, the people are welcome to stay there as long as they live under our laws but that the land we stole off the indigenous population is there land but as we stole it off them they must continue to live under our law.

Appologise if this didnt get put across in a clear way.
63 Pirat-Hunter (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 05:28 pm Report abuse
Malvinas Argentina has always being set aside for the Mapuches to set their own community there, UN should be more worried about Libyans, Afghanistan and Iraqis as well as muslim women and children who are being executed and their land is thefted by enlish speaking terrorists and UN members weapons. Isn't the UN responsible for the execution of Muslim children all over the globe?? We have to give credit where credit is due and Argentina is far from all this claims made by UN if there is any true in UN claims is that UN is in fact guilty of the extermination of Muslims everywhere. The day UN stops killing Muslims to theft oil we will let mapuches legally occupy malvinas Argentina. Untill then we can play the blaming game for ever since UN kills muslim people all over the globe every day. Notice all the supporters of UN statement in this blogs are English terrorists, there is nothing to learn here. It's all the same UN and british rhetoric. British couldn't make this statement themselves because of illegal aliens in Malvinas Argentina and UN thinks they have a higher moral ground when in fact killing Muslims is not legal even if UN executes muslims every day, they're still guiktynof murder. So is a murder going to tell Argentina whatnot do???? I don't think so.
64 EnginnerAbroad (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 05:31 pm Report abuse
@ All

Please ignore Pirat-Hunter it is quite obvious that because no one replied to his first post he is now posting it again and will continue to do so untill someone satisfies his need for attention.
65 stick up your junta (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 05:42 pm Report abuse
@64
Make you right
66 LightThink (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 05:43 pm Report abuse
53
Did you ever hear “” Aborigins and Torres Straight Islanders “” ?
i bet ...NO !

Did you ever hear “” Fremontle ../1830 “”
I bet ...NO !

Did you ever hear “” Convincing Ground / 1833-34 “”
I bet ..NO !

Did you ever hear “” Coniston 1928 “”
I bet ...NO !

do i continue !

-----------------

64
i am still waiting your meal/restaurant advice from San Juan/Sarmiento Street !

dont say us
yesterday “” i was from Chubut....“”
nowadays “” i am from San Juan....“”
maybe
tomorrow you'll say “” i am from Chaco “”
maybe with
“” Fortune Teller “” comment name !
67 Pirat-Hunter (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 05:45 pm Report abuse
Need for attention lol the true will always hurt liars and be ignored by cowards, mapuches have their land in malvinas Argentina and UK is illegally occupying them. UN is actively executing Muslims women and children with UN members weapons and UN is telling Argentine not to respect their own laws lol, I say we ask UN to stop killing muslim women and children and to stop thefting oil, resources and land and maybe just mabe Argentina will listen, Untill then we can't be listening to murderers, it is bad enough we are being accused by murderers, Argentina should expose Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya's war to kill Muslims and theft their resources for the english community. Other then that this report is hypocritical and bias.
68 ElaineB (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 05:48 pm Report abuse
@64 OK, I was going to have a little fun with him as it is International Speak Like A Pirate Day but ...........
69 EnginnerAbroad (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 05:49 pm Report abuse
@66

I have never once stated I am from Chubut! I have worked down there and visted Comadora a few times on buisness but I do live in San Juan. By resturant on Sarmiento do you mean Remolacha (on Sarimento and De la Roza). its a very nice Parilla which brings you a puree made of beatroot with your bread, they have a fake fountain outside located on the west side of the dining area. Also they do very good Empanadas which you can get to take away. I will even tell you daily specils tommorow if you like as i cycle past there on my way home.

That ok for you?
70 Pete Bog (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 05:50 pm Report abuse
@49
“and consider our claim like colonialism”

That's because Argentina's claim IS colonialisation.

It is the planned subjugation of people who do not want to be Argentinian= colonialism.

That's why all the people's of countries colonised by Great Britain were given independence because they did not want GB ruling their countries.
But Argentina colonialised Patagonia and stole it from the native Indians.
Britain has surrendered its colonies to the native people it has colonialised, Argentina has not returned the land to the indigenous natives who still inhabit Argentina.

Argentina has NO strong claim to the Falkland Islands and it cannot have been dispossessed as Great Britain claimed the Falklands from 1690 and settled in 1765.

You have never, ever, proved that the events in January 1833 were other than a British re-affirmation of sovereignty and you continually deny (though this is proved by documents from the era) that half of the settlers allowed to stay were from what is now Argentina.

Argentina or the United Provinces of the River Plate were not in existence in 1765.

However Argentina has an option. It can try to colonise the Falklands by force with help from that muppet Chav, and loose its navy , airforce and airfields in the south during the attempt.
71 LightThink (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 05:54 pm Report abuse
69
Are you certain there are a restaurant named “” Remolacha “” at Sarmiento street ?
I dont want to eat “” parilla “”
would you advice another meals /restaurants there ?
72 Pirat-Hunter (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 05:59 pm Report abuse
What about killing Muslim women and children isn't that illegal??? How come killing Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya doesn't seem to bother UN or about the illegal occupation of Islas Malvinas Argentine? This report proves that UN has a bias agenda and racist agenda, killing Muslims women and children for the english is okay to UN, thefting resources from Latin America and Africa is okay by UN, making up lies about Argentina to divide Argentina is okay. I think we should start a war against UN who keep pushing for more war, let's turn the guns against UN terrorists members. For UN even civilian members of other nations are a target we should repay in kind.
73 GeoffWard2 (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 06:01 pm Report abuse
“Do human beings not have human rights if they reside on a piece of land that Argentina wants?” #11
How did the UN Committee on Decolonisation respond to that?

..........................

Does this Committee have any remit for matters WITHIN a nation?

For instance, would it have been able to manage
the partition of India,
the racial segregations of Yugoslavia, of Iraq, of Turkey,
of greater Israel,
the de-whitening of Zimbabwe, of South Africa,
the reservationisati0n of the USA,
the russification of the Baltic States,
the displacements in Argentina?

Now a Committee that had handled the big world re-distributions - instead of the world's tiniest island communities - would be a UN Committee with REAL cojones.
74 EnginnerAbroad (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 06:02 pm Report abuse
@71 I am absoutly possitive of the fact. What food would you like? They also do pasta and Pizza if that is more to your liking? A few doors down (De La Roza) is the only vegitarion resturant in San Juan. Might be easier if you cook for yourself and pick up some grocciers from the Vea on Acha and Laprida or the bigger Vea near my office on jujuy and 25 de majo.

I missed where it was you are from?
75 Pirat-Hunter (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 06:10 pm Report abuse
Isn't malvinas, Argentina occupation important to UN, isn't The execution of Muslims women and children illegal to UN?? I guess Muslims children aren't as important as Argentina's land and Islas malvinas illegal occupation. I think Argentina should tell UN we will give Islas malvinas Argentina to the mapuches as soon as the UK ends the illegal occupation of mapuches land Untill then we are more worried about the poor Muslim children in war torn land like Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya I am sure they will understand.
76 briton (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 06:27 pm Report abuse
This seems to be an internal problem, caused by external forces.

In other words, it’s not argentines fault,

Is this not so [argie bloggers]

Your problem,
Your shame
Your disgrace,
Deal with it,
[please] >>..
.
77 v for victory (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 06:52 pm Report abuse
@76 completely agree.

I'd like one of the Argentine contributors to actually say how/when they are going to protest to their gov to actually apply the law they have in place to help the amerindians. The REAL owners of Argentina.
78 LightThink (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 06:56 pm Report abuse
74
you do live in San Juan,but your office in Jujuy !?

what food would i like ?
my favorites are “” Pukero “” ,“” Torrijas“”,“” Tortilla paisana“” ,“” Menestra de verduras “” ,“” Cordero a la cazuela “”“” Judias en aceite de oliva “”,

where it was i am from ?
maybe i am from your close environment .!
79 Yuleno (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 07:01 pm Report abuse
Poppy!what is the question I haven't answered.
LEP.I like how you want to be seen as supporting the injustice that the indigenous people endure in Argentina but this discriminatory practise is not confined to Argentina.In England there is plenty of it.Do you forget Dale farm last year was it.I know you can dress up the way gypsy and other groups are treated in England as something that is legal but you must justify,in a multicultural country,why these laws exist and why there aren't laws to protect minority groups.
If you check back,I have never tried to justify the dispossession of any persons traditional lands.There is no colonial issue in Argentina but there are international laws written by the gainers of the colonialist past among others.
Where then am I hypocritical.I asked you if you have a view on Pascua lama,Belo Monte,and Wales.I could have asked many more questions on India and its treatment of its citizens,but you are only interested and how this article impacts on the Malvinas question in your response.
80 LightThink (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 07:06 pm Report abuse
79
great comment !
dont forget the Jamaicans in England.
81 EnginnerAbroad (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 07:10 pm Report abuse
@78

Now you have either misunderstood or are trying to twist my words. In San Juan there is a street called Jujuy (like in many Argentine cities) I said “near my office on Jujuy and 25 de Majo” I didnt not say in Jujuy. It is very common in the English tongue to refer to a location at the corner of two streets i.e. on 4th ann Pine meaninng at the corner of 4th Avenue and Pine street.
82 LightThink (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 07:31 pm Report abuse
81
i said for Jujuy which is a notorious street .
what about your office ?
83 2012 (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 07:39 pm Report abuse
@ 25 @35 Captain Poppy//Conqueror= wimp arse
The “indians” needs to accept the argentine culture and learn to live like argentinians.
They can work, save money and buy any property they want, attend school, travel, and enjoy a good life.
But, instead of accepting civilization they prefer they uncivilized life style and wants everything free!
Is time for them to move on.
84 EnginnerAbroad (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 07:41 pm Report abuse
@82

Where is my office?

Maybe it is in your close environment.

jajajajaja
85 LightThink (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 07:47 pm Report abuse
Captain Popy argues he is from USA
first he should explain his own country 's defects.

for example ........

US has most post modern discimination tools that one of them is ;

Real Median Incomes by races in US :

Whites ( non Hispanics) : $ 56.320
Hispanics : $ 38.120
Blacks : $ 32.250

What a poverty. !
86 Musky (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 07:51 pm Report abuse
@62 EA
Thanks for pointing out about the word 'back', because the phrase 'giving the falklands back to argentina' (or thereabouts) is an oxymoron, whereas giving patagonia (etc) back to the original owners is not. Such an activity should not be going on in this modern world in this day and age.
@49 malen
Total hogwash, you compare your seriously impaired view of history from 200 years ago with things happening now and think it acceptable because your constitution gives the indian's rights which you subsequently ignore. Might as well grant them all a million dollars each... to be paid in 10,000 years , totally pointless!
87 EnginnerAbroad (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 07:52 pm Report abuse
@85

Pot, Kettle, Black.

www.iiuedu.eu/press/journals/sds/SDS_2010/SSc_Article3.pdf

Latin American has the highest levels of inequality in the World.
88 ProRG_American (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 08:00 pm Report abuse
This is total nonsense. The are no such evictions taking place. The indigenous peoples of Argentina have been recovering lands since 1996, started by Carlos Menem and based on a reparations plan envisioned by Juan Peron in the 1050's. A plan that he was not able to implement since he was overthrown. The last major recovery was that of the Wichi people of the Chaco under the Kirchner Adm. They received land, a home, and a tractor to work the land, including free advise on farming from INTA.
Yet another desperate stunt to intimidate Argentina back into “the world order”. It will not work. The progressive people of the world know better
89 LEPRecon (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 08:03 pm Report abuse
@79 - Yuleno

Does these words mean anything to you?

Straws - grasping.

Dale farm! People illegally squatting on someone elses's land, and breaking the law by refusing to obey a court order. These very same people who refused to pay rent to the owners of the land, despite the fact that THEY owned huge tracts of land in Eire and didn't need to be in England.

Not dispossessed of their land, as it wasn't theirs to begin with. Definitely not native to the land either since they were Irish and not English.

The comparison is therefore meaningless.

I have many views on Wales, my paternal great grandfather came from Abergavenny, just as my mother came from Eire, but you'll have to put your mentioning of Wales into context by actually making a point.

The other two you mention are in South America and will directly affect indigenous populations, which is why I'm against them, and donate to organisations like Greenpeace, WWF, Amnesty international etc...

I'm not against progress, it's the fact that the views of the native populations are continuously ignored and sidelined, and they are robbed and given little or no compensation.

So again, I trying to understand just what point you are trying to make here? And why you believe that these 'examples' somehow negate the deliberate eviction of native Amerindians by the consent and/or inaction of the Argentine authorities?
90 LightThink (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 08:04 pm Report abuse
87
The “” Inequality “” is very different technical definition which can cover
multi races/ethnic groups,in Latin America almost all Economies have ~more than 30% GDP Informal Sectors, so we cant know Real Incomes Levels diversifications what they are.
but,the US has Race Base categorisied discrimination levels.
91 Conqueror (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 08:26 pm Report abuse
@63, 67, 72, 75 You're a joke. Probably a druggie as well!
@83 And who would listen to an expat slag? Here's some news for you, slut. They were there first. They have no need to accept “the culture” of their exterminators. And what “culture” would have an argie have anyway. Argies are all benders and suckers!
@88 Sod off! You know nothing. You don't even lie well! After selling the Wichi land to two private companies, the National Parks Administration and the government of Salta signed an agreement to create a new national protected area in General Pizarro. Of the approximately 213 km² comprised by the new reserve, the Wichí will have the right of use of 22 km², and they will own 8 km². Big deal! Or perhaps you didn't know that there are at least 165 Wichi communities? In Chaco, Formosa, Jujuy as well as in Salta!
92 Pirat-Hunter (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 08:32 pm Report abuse
Mapuches belong to Malvinas Argentina, or better yet malvinas Argentina belong to the mapuches we demand UN and UK to meet over the mapuches land in Islas malvinas Argentina. Argentina granted mapuches rights to self determination in Islas Malvinas Argentina we want the mapuches back in the island ASAP and UN should confront UK, Argentina doesn't deserve the bias and racist attitudes from UN and UK. We are all watching UN stand on the execution of Muslims women and children around the globe and come to realize UN is a racist entity. For this reason theybturned libya, Afghanistan and Iraq into a terror training camp, people in those nations should destroy anything made in USA or UK, the US embassy was a good start, but what about all their businesses.
93 ProRG_American (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 08:39 pm Report abuse
91 Conqueror (#)
If you are so anti Argentine, why do you spendi so much time investigating it? What do you care
94 Santa Fe (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 08:42 pm Report abuse
UN calls on Argentina to stop eviction of indiginous peoples from their land.

TROLLS stop flooding the forum with crap , standard Le Campora ruse.

STOP EVICTING INDIGINOUS PEOPLE ARGENTINA....jajajajajajaj
95 2012 (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 08:43 pm Report abuse
@ 91 Conqueror/Captain Poppy (Patrick Deval?...jejeje)
The indians..... what they had?
Fights between tribes! and the desire of continuing killing!
Thanks to the Spaniards they accepted everything: food, clothes and religion=civilization.
Is time for them to move on and accept modernization.
96 Santa Fe (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 08:47 pm Report abuse
95... Thank you Spain and then Argentina for stealing my lands raping murdering my people... Signed the Native People of What is now Argenweena

this is happening now, not 200 years ago NOW shame on Argentina
97 2012 (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 09:17 pm Report abuse
@ 96
Come on! Lo pasado, pisado!
Move on!
The “indians” are argentinians citizens and better off residing in towns with schools, hospitals, apartments, houses, hotels, restaurants, transportation, shopping malls, airports, swimming pools, jacuzzi, steam room, exercise rooms, ravioli, churros, cafecito con leche, helados, etc.
signed:
Miss Patagonia
98 Yuleno (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 09:50 pm Report abuse
LEP .you are wrong about Dale farm.They had bought the land and only lacked planning consent for the buildings and such.Like I predicted you hide behind laws that in other examples that could be raised discriminate against gypsies and others.Instead of giving your support to the vast amounts of charities you support,why don't you address the actions of your state against these people.
In the case of indigenous people in Argentina,there is an organisation in Bristol that represents the Mapuche nation where it is possible.You could donate to them.Or are you determined to give a lesser amount of help to every organisation.Incidentally LEP,what kind of organisations are Greenpeace,Anmesty and world wildlife fund,and in what way do they address the situation of the indigenous people of the world.I suppose you are going to tell me that the etc in your comment included Survival and the American Indian Movement.
99 Islander1 (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 09:51 pm Report abuse
Axel - Why woul UK need to pay any compensation for events of 1833? Ok we will disagree on who owns/owned what - but the simple fact is that NO Population was forced off its land in 1833!
A recently arrived militia group only were ordered to leave, all the others were invited to stay - and all did so apart from 2 couples - who left volutarily- brazilian and Uruguyan - none where even Argentine origen anyway!
100 Pirat-Hunter (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 10:31 pm Report abuse
Islas malvinas Argentina has being set aside for the mapuches to have their self determination allowed in their land as it shows in the old maps held by UK we will like the mapuches to have Islas malvinas Argentina ASAP hopefully UN can get UK to give the mapuches their land back. Come on UN we know UK is racist do we have to assume UN is too??? Actions mean more then words, if UN had fixed Islas malvinas sooner today they could actually be heard and help mapuches, but racist attitudes made UN irrelevant thus far.
101 Captain Poppy (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 11:10 pm Report abuse
Conqueror....get use to sussie calling you Captain Poppy, she thinks we are the seem. I believe you are British and I a Yank......go figure. She or it is due for a thorazene shot.
102 kelperabout (#) Sep 19th, 2012 - 11:40 pm Report abuse
26 malen
I wonder just what constitution you are talking about is it the Argentine one where they say we will remove all indigenous people , take the Falkland islands from it's rightfull owners because that is all we know. Or is it more likely the one that CFK thinks she invented. Either way it can't be all that good when the UN does no longer buy it.
What does amaze me is the time it has taken the UN to recognise the wrong doings of Argentina. We Falklanders have been shouting from the roof tops long enough and according to the Argies critics on this site they believe we have no education just a simple people. Well looks like we may be making some important inroads at last.
103 malen (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 12:02 am Report abuse
what does amaze me is the long time (centuries) it takes the UN to recoignise the wrong doings of UK, never desisted of killing, fleeing people of its own countries, like in Malvinas, India, Africa, USA, Afghanistan, Libya, Irak, etc, etc.
104 Conor J (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 01:39 am Report abuse
And the penny drops, I've said it before and I'll say it again, any colonially created country complaining about Colonialism ids Naive, ignorant and hypocritical. This pretty sums up Argentine's position in the world.
105 brit abroad (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 04:37 am Report abuse
Hehe, all the RG,s have become very sensitive!

Malen and pirate hunter are the best! Poor little bitter and twisted losers, who.......................

are still no closer to getting their dream come true!
106 LEPRecon (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 06:33 am Report abuse
@98 - Yuleno

No they had not bought the farm, they had been given permission by the owners to camp on the land temporarily whilst they were in the area. These travellers then decided to stay and they put up illegal structures, which is against the law without planning permission from the local government. The owner asked them to take them down and move on, they refused, so he took them to court. Hence why they were evicted.

You cannot be evicted from your own property. These travellers, by the way, we're very rich and own huge amounts of land in Eire, that they could've settled on, if they so desired, and built as many structures as the local government in Eire would give them permission to.

You accuse me of discriminating against gypsies!?! That's a lot to glean from one post, isn't it? You must be really knowledgeable, all those books you have read by merely looking at their covers.

Gypsies, new age travellers and the like are welcome in the UK. Most councils put aside land that they can camp on while they are temporarily in the area. However, they are still subject to the same laws as everybody else, not above them.

Anyway, nice try at deflecting the thread. Back to the topic at hand. Argentina abusing the human rights of native Amerindians, by dispossessing them of the small amount of land that they were allowed.

Do you actually have an opinion on that, or are you going to keep spouting completely unrelated drivel?
107 Santa Fe (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 07:02 am Report abuse
UN calls on Argentina to stop eviction of indigenous peoples from their lands

SHAME ON RG's
108 Musky (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 07:14 am Report abuse
@104 CJ
Very true.
@106 LEP
Indeed. A typical britain has to apply for planning permission from a household extension above a certain size, to a house, to a factory, or offices. People do not have free reign to build what they like where they like, pandamonium would be caused if this happened. The Dale gypsies that no pemission.
The amerindians have lived in the forests for countless centries and that is their way of life. If they choose to move out then that is up to them but they should not be shunted around and denied their heritage, any comparison with Dale farm is laughable.
109 ElaineB (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 08:42 am Report abuse
I don't know if planning permission exists in Argentina, maybe someone can tell me. I was having dinner with a wealthy Argentine at his estancia. It was a beautiful building, old colonial style but new. He told me he did not have planning permission to build but 'you just had to know the right people'. An interesting system.
110 Martin Woodhead (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 09:08 am Report abuse
Dale farm is in essex a very crowded bit of land.
We have quite a tight planning regime building an extension to a house can be fraught with difficulty.
So putting up thirty or so chalets with no permission and then think you can do what you like was always going to end in disaster.
Land is very expensive in england Land that you can legally build on is outrageous. Gypsys buy land that has no planning permission build on it then cry discrimination when the law falls on them from a great height.
111 Zhivago (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 09:48 am Report abuse
109 Elaine
Corruption is very rampant in Argentina as you know. I own property on the Parana River and if I ever decide to sell it I will have to pay as we have added a few additions without securing permission or submitting plans, it goes with the territory! Here in Canada we need permission to cut down a tree in the back yard or plant a hedge near the sidewalk!
112 Clyde15 (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 10:15 am Report abuse
#72
Is not Argentina a member of the United Nations ? So you advocate turning guns on the UN. This also means turning the guns on your self.
So, in addition to wiping out the world population, you want suicide for the Argentine people. An interesting point of view !!
Had you actually thought your premise to it's logical conclusion ?
113 EnginnerAbroad (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 11:40 am Report abuse
@90

You didnt read the article did you? Because you obviosuly missed the whole section on pages 169,170 and 171 which talks about “Roles of Race, Ethnicity and Gender in Income Disparities” in which it states

“Among 6 Latin American and Caribbean countries indigenous men earn 40-65% less than non-indigenous men”. If we therefore take your own figures from the US and chnage them to percentage change we get:

Whites ( non Hispanics) : +/- 0%
Hispanics : -32%
Blacks : $ -43%

Where as in Latin America the same stats would be:
Non-indigenous: +/- 0%
Indigenous: Min -40% max -65%. mean 52.5%.

The figures quite clearly show Latin American has a greater degree on inequality in incomes based on ethninticty than the USA.

Not saying the USA is perfect far from it, buy you really should do a little bit more reserch before you make unsupportive statements.

Once again please actualy read the WHOLE article before you comment again.
www.iiuedu.eu/press/journals/sds/SDS_2010/SSc_Article3.pdf
114 briton (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 01:00 pm Report abuse
As CFK would say,
We have done nothing wrong, we are innocent,
And its everybody else’s fault, but never ours.

And will defend this liar,
Why her blind deluded supporters, who else.

.
115 Yuleno (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 01:54 pm Report abuse
LEP I believe you are wrong and that the rich Irish (foreigners is what is really being said) had bought the land.And their money was good enough.They didn't have planning permission but there you go.You should divert your charitable efforts to sending them all back instead of them taking state handouts,don't you think?
You ought to read posts more carefully.I have written twice that I criticise all the governments of Argentina for their treatment of indigeous people(a description which is not the best description),but I do not feel you have much sympathy for the issue.You are merely posturing for your own purpose.
110# Martin refers to the fact that they buy the land if you are disputing that it is not simply the planning permission that is the issue(and their being wealthy from state handouts and untaxed earnings and foreign)
116 Captain Poppy (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 01:57 pm Report abuse
But she loves the UN.....the UN is her closet allie.
117 Musky (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 02:40 pm Report abuse
@115 Yuleno
In the UK there are rules which we all abide by, namely planning permission must be acquired. In Wales the Billionaire Terry Matthews, owner of the Celtic Manor Resort, location of the wettest ever Ryder cup competition, in 2010 got very upset as he wanted to demolish a 350 year old barn within the grounds of his golf course, he had no permission and so the building was protected. Permission works on all levels from gypsy to billionaire. We have laws and clearly they are better policed in this country than in yours.
We brits find it incredulous that you seek to compare your governments lack of active protection of its indigenous people with british planning law. Strewth, if I lived in a grade I listed building, I'd have to get the council's permission to change the letter box.
Your government's failure is effectively an open door for further evictions and the UN has shown its extreme displeasure at this odious activity and we have every sympathy for the indians who are being shafted by the very people that should be protecting them.
118 ElaineB (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 02:45 pm Report abuse
@111 Thanks. Yes, I was given the impression the owner's close friendship with the local mayor/official was key. The place was huge.
119 Yuleno (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 03:39 pm Report abuse
Goodness me Muskey did I not know that? Now that is protecting the well to do not the poor isn't it?
120 Simon68 (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 03:53 pm Report abuse
119 Yuleno (#)
Sep 20th, 2012 - 03:39 pm

However much you try to change the subject, Yuleno, doesn't detract from the fact that our government is “desalojando” Amerindians in order to give a profit to the soy producers, this is a fact.
Your efforts to hide this fact make you an accomplice to what is, quite simply, DAYLIGHT ROBBERY!!!!!
121 2012 (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 04:20 pm Report abuse
@ 120 Simon68/Zhivago/Chinese Tierra del Fuego resident

The “indians” are argentinians and have all the opportunity to accept civilization by residing cities. The “indians” needs to move on.
122 Simon68 (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 04:28 pm Report abuse
121 2012 (#)
Sep 20th, 2012 - 04:20 pm

Why?
123 Santa Fe (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 04:52 pm Report abuse
Stop stealing the natives lands Argentina, do as the UN says. I thought they were you friends????
124 LEPRecon (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 05:13 pm Report abuse
@115 -Yuleno

Whatever. But what has any of this to do with the fact that Argentina is dispossessing native Amerindians from their land?

Answer that, stop prevaricating.
125 Yuleno (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 05:25 pm Report abuse
120#you are quite right but you are not right that I am trying to change the subject.I have said that Argentina has and is dispossesing the indigenous people.In the case of Pascua Lama they are doing so for minerals.In response to this action people on here claim it is necessary for the mineral and progress.The people on this post that criticise Argentina for these actions,defend the forced removal of people in England because of planning laws.And without going into the normal treatment of gypsies and travellers,among others,why can't England accommodated their way of life.I am not convinced that you would agree that Pascua lama,Belo Monte and other projects should not happen.Tell me are you in favour of the Belo Monte project and do you believe there are alternatives to the continued destruction of traditional lands of the people who benefit the least from the loss of their traditional lands.
126 axel arg (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 05:39 pm Report abuse
ENGINNER ABROAD. ISLANDER1.
Maybe with you both i can have a mature debate, unfortunatelly, i don't think it happens with all the rest of the people who answered my comment, i already wasted so much time with them in others oportunities.
ISLANDER1: You are right, civilian population wasn't expealed, in fact they were invited to stay, perhaps there are people now in the islands whose ancestors were argentine people who used to live in the islands in 1833. However what you don't say, is that the united provinces were deprived of exercising it's rights over the islands, i know that there is a big controversy with the historic aspects, that's why i have always said that the best that we can do, is to investigate, because both parts omit information, not only in the bibliographies, but at the u. n too. In my two investigations i tell what is omitted by both, but i am cheking it all again because i realised i committed some mistakes when i translated it, beside, i realisedd also that i haven't dated completly some of the sources, thats' why, when i finish cheking, i will offer it again to everyone, and i'll send it again to all the people who already has it.
ENGINNER: The fairest fact, would be to give the originary populations all the lands that were stolen to them, but maybe thats' imposible, for being honest, i dont know. But unless our constitution includes their rights and demands. Respecting the historic facts that involve the malvinas question, read what i typed for islander1.
127 Pirat-Hunter (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 06:19 pm Report abuse
UN bias stand is shameful, the KKK was at least consistent. I guess if Argentina had a nuclear defense program dropping bombs on Libyan muslim civilians would be okay. CFK is an excellent leader UN needs to check the war mongers before trashing a democracy. Then again what can we expect from a UN dictatorship.
www.asteriscos.tv/noticia-43472.html
Israeli War against Palestinian Children
by DR. ELIAS AKLEH on 09/19/2012
The Israelis were not satisfied with the mere occupation of Palestine, the evictions of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians out of their country, the annihilation of Gaza Palestinians through a choking economic siege and frequent aerial bombardments, and the continuous confiscations of Palestinian land and the demolitions of their homes in the West Bank, so they had developed a very oppressive anti-Palestinian children policies, that are aimed at intimidating, terrorizing and traumatizing Palestinian children, whose families dared to stay in the country. These policies, that seem to be part and parcel of the racist expansionist ideology of the state of Israel and of its army, aim primarily at driving Palestinian families out of the country for the sake of their children's future, and secondary to traumatize and terrorize Palestinian children while very young so that they would not dare grow up into revolting young men.
sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2012/09/19/israeli-war-against-palestinian-children/
Mass Gypsy eviction looms in Essex
Dale Farm residents warn of “ethnic cleansing”.
According to the travellers, although the land is classed as green belt, it was a concreted scrapyard before they moved on to it. They say they each pay on average £950 in council tax per year, and allege that the refusal to grant them planning permission, far from being anything to do with the green belt, is driven by an undercurrent of prejudice from local politicians
www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/06/dale-farm-council-eviction
128 Santa Fe (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 06:50 pm Report abuse
Stick to the subject in hand trolls this won't go away,

UN calls on Argentina to stop eviction of native peoples from their land.

this is how you stole your country and your still doing it SHAME on Argentina the modern coloniser.
129 malen (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 06:58 pm Report abuse
128...perhaps you need to know that indegenous couldnt get independence by themselves, it was all a new people and effort to fight against spaniards...
...so get facts right we, indegenous and not indegenous are all argentines, with the same rights, the ones that stole here were the europeans that invade us, and never never had a right to do that and to be here. europeans in europe, southamerica in southamerica.
130 Santa Fe (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 07:03 pm Report abuse
129... The UN seems to think they are indiginous natives and Argentina is stealing their land. Stop stealing natives land NOW
131 Yuleno (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 07:05 pm Report abuse
Go back to colonial days if you want trolling.128# or have you a point to make.Do you think there should be an apology to the Kivu tribe for the execution of so many of their young men after their corrupt trials by British judges.
132 Santa Fe (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 07:09 pm Report abuse
131... We are talking about 2012.. Not history...the modern developed cyber age of human rights and the UN. This stealing of land is happening NOW.s top changing the subject, discuss the article the the UN says that Argentina is stealing indiginous natives lands...discuss don't rake up historical cases, this is now!!! Shame on Argentina this sickens me.
133 briton (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 07:40 pm Report abuse
you are living in the past,
just like CFK .
2012 is a bad year for all of you,
better luck next year,

in the mean time, in the british falklands,
they are a great people, dont you think,

unlike the nasty argies.
134 LightThink (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 08:26 pm Report abuse
113
i looked at your article,which has well known points.

my point is that ;

“” First comers almost take it all or majority “”

unlike in Northern (Anglo)America,land in almost all south America countries was not widely distributed to individual landowners,elsewhere in Latin America ,countries began with an “” oligarchic landholder system “” that left most of the population economically depend on small,wealthy Europe origin elites.Eventually this structure produced many populist regimes around,an example is Peronism ( a succesful backlash to this structure came in the form of labour unrest that propelled the populist Peron regime to the power.... Populist demands have overpowered more conventional policies for decades on and ends,resulting in Argentina's slow and irregular decline for nearly a century ..let alone to solve income inequalities ..--- similar scenarios had been seen elsewere in Latin America countries...)

“” First comers almost take it all or majority“”

but,in Northern America, the structure quicly jumped on to industrial movement and following financial accumulation that owning from Europe origin elites.
A member from lower “” later comers “” races/ethnics must have qualified education to jump into upper class ,must go to Ivy League colleges ,should pay ~ $50.000 ...but how ? by $ 30.000......$ 50.000 median incomes ?..not possible.!..then well come to the Indian style “” caste system “” !

now,
which structure is more easier to climb in society and jump up the upper social class for a member from “” later comers “” races/ethnic origins ?

of course that
it is more easier ad softer in Latin structure than northern.
135 GeoffWard2 (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 09:04 pm Report abuse
You're right, this issue is so current and important that it needs serious discussion in its own right, now; not by reference to history.
Lets have a go at picking up the issues and finding a way forward.

I am wrestling with the same issues with Brasil's Belo Monte.
136 briton (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 09:17 pm Report abuse
Argentina could drop its none existent claim to the Falklands,
That would be a great leap forwards,
Would it not.
.
137 Musky (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 09:52 pm Report abuse
@119 yuleno
The law protects neighbours from poorly thought out developmemt and it protects uk heritage. Rich neighbours or neighbours, it makes no difference.

UN C24 stop disgraceful anti-falklands behavoir and protect the indians grom
138 Yuleno (#) Sep 20th, 2012 - 10:05 pm Report abuse
Santa fe-are you not listening to this thread.It seems like you are only picking out the parts you want to.I think,for the fourth time of saying,I have already criticised Argentina for these actions.You are not following this thread or you are stupid.The reason I have got on to gypsies and other groups,is to highlight the fact that is a global issue.Europe is only 70 years from standing by and watching the systematic extermination of gypsies.Do they show the lessons learned or do they continue to perpetuate discrimination.
The question of Belo Monte is not only applicable to Brazil.At least not while Eurocentric people moralise from the comfort of their wealth.Its fine for you to condemn Argentina,but one minute Argentina is in the global economy,the next it is not a part of the global economy.Condemn the corporations,such as Barrick of Canada,in the same breath as condemning Argentina.And then make your mobile phone last until it breaks on not a better model comes out.
You can't have it both ways,or can you,you always have in the past.Forked tongue have you?
139 Santa Fe (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 06:45 am Report abuse
138... I am listening but your point on gypsies is totally incorrect. all regions and counties in the uk now have to provide gypsie and traveller camps to provide facilities. the Dale farm news article that you put forward as a similar
Occurrence to the stealing of natives land in Argentina is laughable. dale farm was a planning breach, simple as that. you cannot develop /build on agricultural land or green belt designated areas. gypsy travellers buy agricultural land which as you would understand is extremely cheap compared to developable land. They the start building without planning permission.

second point and one you may of missed is these are not indiginous natives and are as the name suggests travellers, most being from ireland the accent gives it away. anyone in the uk can buy agricultural land but nobody can build houses on it unless they have gained planning permission.

This article doesn't mention gypsy planning breaches in uk it mentions Argentina stealing native land!! So iam discussing the subject, you in a standard troll google search have feverishly surfed the web to gain evidence of a British angle. And this is the best you can find Jajajajajajaja a planning dispute
140 agent999 (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 07:44 am Report abuse
@139

As they are travellers, why to they need permanent homes ?
141 briton (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 11:18 am Report abuse
Meanwhile back on blogg,

UN calls on Argentina to stop eviction of indigenous peoples from their lands
So please stop moaning and do as your told..
.
142 Santa Fe (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 11:52 am Report abuse
140... The travel around the country but have permanent winter quarters usually a small bungalow sized property, also properties in Ireland. it's their culture to travel, so every council has to provide facilities for them along with liaison officers and numerous support services.
143 GeoffWard2 (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 12:32 pm Report abuse
This issue is so current and important that it needs serious discussion in its own right, now; not by reference to history. Gypsies in the UK is off topic.
Lets have a go at picking up the issues and finding a way forward.

The topic is:
“UN calls on Argentina to stop eviction of indigenous peoples from their lands”
144 Yuleno (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 01:55 pm Report abuse
The article is the result of a visit to Argentina by theUN rapporteur which said that Argentina had taken significant steps to recognise the rights of indigenous people.However there are still major(major) short comings.In the 2011 annual report Anaya said that one of the major issues facing indigenous people were the extractive industries.Argentina has mineral resources and is therefore more visible in putting the needs of capitalism to satisfy its resources needs than the UK.However this does not mean that Argentina is a significant abuser of indigenous people.It means that it is an abuser.
There is a need I think to understand what is being said by Anaya.There is also a need to come up with some solutions.Is Barricks correct to continue to pursue its intentions on Pascua Lama or not.It is inescapable that indigenous people who occupy a remote and harsh environment will have to suffer the greatest deprivation for this project to go head.But,just like Brazil needs it's hydroelectricity to power it's productive units,Capitalist corporations needs its mineral component to produce its profitable goods.
It is all good to highlight Argentina,and ignore what is happening globally.I'm sure the slag heats of Wales were a consequence of the need for coal.Pascua lama is to have its major impact in Chile.The Maori of new Zealand are subject to marginalization.The native Americans are subjected to marginalization,poor health care,educational deprivation and discrimination.The traveller community of England suffer the same negative treatments there.
If the traveller people set-up homes and their children live there and attend school,isn't that a good thing from the settled communiy's point of view?Are they not to be allowed a decent education?Why is the situation of the gypsy and travelling people off limits in this current thread?Is it because the posters on it are mainly English and they don't want to discuss what their wealthy country can do for its people
145 Simon68 (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 02:47 pm Report abuse
144 Yuleno (#)
Sep 21st, 2012 - 01:55 pm

There are several fallacies in your post:

1) Not all the evictions of indigenous peoples in Argentina are due to mining, most are due to taking land to pland soy. These are all backed by the Argentine Government.

2) Pascua Lama. Barrick BOUGHT a consession from the San Juan Government, backed by the Argentine Government, to exploit the minerals in the Pascua Lama area, the two Governments involved should have dealt with the affected indigenous peoples before SELLING the consession.

3) The Moari peoples of New Zealand are NOT subject to marginalization, they have the same rights and obligations as the immigrant population.

4) Native Americans in North America have the same health care as all North Americans, the same access to education and are no more discriminated against than any other minority.

5) The Gypsies and travellers in Brittain recieve pretty good treatment because all Local Councils are obliged to provide camping areas for them.

The UN found that the Federal Government and many Provincial Governments have been infringing the law (26.160) by allowing evictions of indigenous peoples from their ancestral lands. The evictions are for the use of the lands either as agricultral or mining/oil/gas production. This COLONIALISM!!!!!!
146 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 03:03 pm Report abuse
Hahahaha, and what will the UN do about it? What will the Brits do about it?

jiijijijiji

empty words.
147 LEPRecon (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 04:00 pm Report abuse
@146 - Tobias

So you support the colonial attitude of the Argentine government. Why does that not surprise me.

You are always screaming about the 'Europeans' and blame them for everything. But this is pure Argentina. And people like you, who blindly support the government, are party to all that they do.

You ask what the UN can do. Well the UN could impose sanctions against Argentina until the evictions stop.

I know what you're going to say. Argentina doesn't need anyone. You always say this, then a few posts later you contradict yourself.

But however you look at this, Argentina is showing the world that it is an aspiring colonial power, ignoring the rights of natives, stealing their land etc.

You always like to bring up how the 'evil' European colonists did this kind of thing in the past. What do you say now that is your beloved Argentina doing it? Still blame Europe for your own countries failings?
148 Yuleno (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 04:09 pm Report abuse
145#
Do you think the UN has got this all wrong or that I've got it all wrong.I know about the soy business and other projects not related to mineral extraction that impact on indigenous people.
149 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 04:12 pm Report abuse
@147

I think you will be hard pressed to find anywhere where I DENIED Argentina did not do wrongs against the natives.

The question is not my hypocricy, but yours:

1. you know very well every single lonely country in this part of the world (anything west of the Azores), commited the same crimes you seem to accuse Argentina of being unique in dong.

2. you also know very well Europeans have never actually apologized for their colonialism, and actually defend it with outrageous logic like “well, we brought you railroads and perfume”, as if a minor right justifies a cyclopean wrong.

3. The UN has no sovereignty whatsoever on Argentine soil, and we can do what the fuck we want. And you can't do shit about it.

To use “simple” language to understand. Whether what goes on is right or wrong is another matter, but in terms of the UN, no they can't impose sanctions because there is no evidence of human rights violations, and even if there were, they are on a very minor scale and commited by private or non-government entities (ranchers, corporations, an occassional municipal authority). Since it is not a national policy, the UN can't do squat about it.
150 Conor J (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 04:35 pm Report abuse
@149

1. So? I don't think that Mr LEPrecon was actually saying that I believe he was pointing out your hypocrisy when you insult Europe, despite forgetting that it was European colonialism that created Argentina.

2. We may have brought you railroads but more importantly we gave your Spanish speaking republic the gift of life.

3. I have to agree with you on that one.
151 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 05:39 pm Report abuse
@150

So? All countries in the new world were created from a massive wrong. But you don't blame the child of the rapist, you blame the rapist.
152 St.John (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 06:02 pm Report abuse
Pirat-Hunter keeps blabbering about “Islas malvinas Argentina has being set aside for the mapuches”

So Pirat-Hunter wants to deport the few surviving Mapuches.

As has been documented umpteen times, the Falkland Islands never had an indigenous population. The French settlers were the first ever to live there.
153 Santa Fe (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 06:03 pm Report abuse
146... What will the UN do about it what with the Brits do about it!

What a statement, your gloating at suppressing /stealing natives lands in 2012
SHAMEFUL statement.

What will Argentina do, carry on stealing native lands????? No reply needed you sicken me
154 Conor J (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 06:03 pm Report abuse
@151
What kind of an excuse is that? Rape and colonialism are two fundamentally different things and you know that. You also know that I have no regrets as regards the colonialism that we Europeans carried out, as the modern world including Argentina was created by it.

However you as a colonially implanted individual, living in a colonially created country have no right to complain about it. I mean ask yourself, were did this Spanish speaking, oriented and cultured nation that is Argentina come from? Did it perhaps fall from the fucking sky? NO it was us Europeans who settled that land and you as our decedents still hold the same legacy of that colonialism. Be fucking grateful.
155 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 06:09 pm Report abuse
@153

Will you say the same to Conor J who just said he has no regrets whatsoever of his country's involvement in the original suppressing and stealing of native lands?

@154

I'm not a colonial nor a European (umpteenth time)
156 Santa Fe (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 06:11 pm Report abuse
146... What will the UN do about it what with the Brits do about it!

What a statement, your gloating at suppressing /stealing natives lands in 2012
SHAMEFUL statement.

What will Argentina do, carry on stealing native lands????? No reply needed you sicken me
157 St.John (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 06:19 pm Report abuse
@ 11 Captain Poppy

Captain Poppy: “I do not believe that all the Argentines can be lumped into that category.” (in answer to 10 Conqueror: They have brought it all on themselves and have no-one else to blame)

You are absolutely right, Cap. Poppy, la presidenta received 54% of the votes. In spite of voting is mandatory in Argentina, only 70% voted, so that gives less than 38% of the Argentino voters in favor of the pres.

The remaining 62% - which options did they have? Argentine politicians in general are not worth voting for.
158 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 06:20 pm Report abuse
@156

Wow I shut you up quick.
159 Conor J (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 06:29 pm Report abuse
@158
I think he has the same attitude that I have, he's just pointing out Argentinas hypocrisy when it comes to colonialism and the Falklands.
160 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 06:32 pm Report abuse
@159

The issue here is not the Falklands, it is internal matters.
161 Yuleno (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 06:40 pm Report abuse
154#You are a great example of a child of a colonialist country.Who are you grateful to for opinions and thoughts?Surely not the wonderful education that Europe gives its people.Did you miss that gift.
162 Conor J (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 06:40 pm Report abuse
@160
Maybe so but for the Argentines like yourself who try to defend yourselves when you are rightly accused of being a colonial country it does shine light on your predicament: Colonially created and therefore complaining about European colonialism is pathetic, ignorant and hypocritical.

Oh and FYI you yourself may claim that you are not of European decent but you most likely are and if not European then your family will originate from somewhere else in the world but still brought to Latam by colonialism. And if by some chance you are 100% native South American then you should still be thankful for European and in particular Spanish colonialism as you seem to cling to your Argie identity quite a lot.
163 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 06:52 pm Report abuse
Argentina is not a colonial country, it never held any colonies. That's just a romantic self-dilusion here at Mercopress.

Ask in the real world and approximately 0% of the world's population will label Argentina as a colonialist country.

Oh really? The natives thankful to Europe. I hope you have the balls to tell that to their faces at a Navajo, Maya, Amazonian, or Mapuche reservation. See how they respond... lol
164 Conor J (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 07:02 pm Report abuse
@163
Once again Mr TTT you have been defeated, you could of tried to admit that I'm right in this situation. Argentina may not have possessed any genuine colonies but it did conquer large tracks of land that would have belonged to Chile, Brazil, Uruguay etc. Argentina is a colonial country as it was founded by colonialism. And there is no escaping that. The Natives? You sir as an Argentine the product of colonialism have no right to speak on behalf of the natives. You are of European decent and you cant deny it. Genetically related to us Europeans Mr TTT. Stop complaining about Europe and or colonial history as we brought you and your country into the world. Now if you'll excuse me its my tea time.
165 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 07:18 pm Report abuse
We took land from other countries through war, coercion, treaty, and purchase.

And no I'm not European no matter how hard you or anyone here cries about it.
166 briton (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 07:47 pm Report abuse
146 Truth_Telling_Troll
Just like CFKs threats,
[Nothing ]
>>>>>>>>>>
What will the Brits do about it
[Nothing]
Its not our shame,….
////////////////////
Is it not you guys who keep telling us to enforce none existent UN treaties,
[When it suits you]

Just do as they require you,
Stop the shame,
And take responsibility,
Instead of avoiding the questions and blaming everybody else,
Please……

.
167 Captain Poppy (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 07:51 pm Report abuse
Coner J don't waste your time on the TiT, it's a kid that is not even an argentine.
168 HansNiesund (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 07:53 pm Report abuse
@163
So it's only colonialism if you went over the sea to take somebody else's territory. But if you went over land to do it, that's all right.

That's one of the few things the Russians and Americans ever agreed on, although they did take umbrage when the Germans thought they would have a shot at it too.
169 Santa Fe (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 07:55 pm Report abuse
A disruptive troll whos only job in life is to wake up in his BA shanty town, log onto the tenter web and troll for food parcels. disrupt a forum and the facts will all go away. not this time chum, GIVE THE LANDS BACK
170 Conor J (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 07:58 pm Report abuse
@165
You can deny that your European but you know as well as me that genetically you are our biological descendants.
@167
I haven't wasted my time Mr Poppy as I have defeated him, if you take note of his usual comments he replies with long well formed sentences but in this case he replies with a small and simple denial without providing any reason or explanation. He knows he is genetically of European decent and yet he denies it without any proof.
171 Santa Fe (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 08:22 pm Report abuse
Don't let him or her disrupt the article, that's what they do. Smoke and mirrors the facts are the Rgs have been finally unmasked we all knew it but now the world knows.
172 briton (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 08:37 pm Report abuse
Everybody descends from Africa,

Is this not true...
173 2012 (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 09:06 pm Report abuse
@145 Simon68=Zhivago=pretending be a chinese residing in Tierra del Fuego
see the Economist on “Argentina cooking books”..

Re: 4.- The USA goverment has returned the lands to the “indians”;
provided funds for them to have medical clinics, education, transportation, etc. plus Casinos to obtain more “revenues” for them to “survive”.
But, as of TODAY these “indians” in the USA cannot advance in society because they want to remain “uncivilized” living in their “lands”.
Rather than to advance and move on like the rest of other minorities these indians wants to remain “uncivilized” .
Who understand them?
NOBODY.
174 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 09:25 pm Report abuse
Everyone does realize that the word “colonization” is derived from “colony”, which in turn comes from Spanish “colonia”, which in turn was as a coined term taken from Colon (the Spanish last name for Columbus), to describe any settlement OVERSEAS (term also coined in the European genocidal era).

@170

“He knows he is genetically of European decent and yet he denies it without any proof.”

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

So let me get this straight, in your culture, when you accuse someone of something, it is the ACCUSED who must disprove the accusation?? No wonder you anglo-saxons gave us such wonderful people like the puritans, the witch trials, the weird sects and all that other bizarro. hahahahahaha

So if I accuse you of bestiality, in your culture, it is up to you to have to disprove you are not shagging sheep!?

How backwards.
175 Yuleno (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 09:27 pm Report abuse
We'll see what the report says after Anaya's visit to the USA.In the meantime 2012# you believe what you believe.
176 Conor J (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 09:37 pm Report abuse
@174
Genocidal era? Again you have missed the fucking point! We created you! Your very existence is a result of our genocide!! You bloody fool!

Accused? I didn't accuse you of anything! Its a fact that the vast majority of all Americans are of European decent! How can you deny this? Sheep shagging? Thats a piss poor stereotype for the Welsh yet we all know that it is a piss take. And once again you completely dodged the argument I put forward: How can you as an Argentina hate Europe when we were the ones who put you on the map?
177 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 10:26 pm Report abuse
@176

If your mother or father is a prostitute, a murderer, a rapist, a thief, a con artist, a person that breaks all her contracts, a manipulator, and a racist, would you love your parents?

Europe:
prostitute: would get in bed with anyone in order to gain an advantage
murderer: genocides left and right around the globe
rapist: forced local women to shag because they coudn't bring their own along
thief: stole, shipped so much wealth, treasure, and art (check your museums)
con arist: deceitfully promised to be friendly to natives in exchange for peace
breaking contracts: signed thousands of treaties with natives then broke them
manipulator: pitted groups of people against each other to divide an conquer
racist: they saw all natives as either needing civilization, or racially inferior

Pretty nasty stuff.
178 Conor J (#) Sep 21st, 2012 - 10:47 pm Report abuse
@177
I ve heard this one before but it fails as an argument. You cant use these examples that relate to the actions of a single individual when compared to a whole question.
Prostitute: Brought you into existance
Murderer: Removed the natives so that you could have a life in a continent that you did not originally belong to.
Rapist: Same as above, it created you.
Thief: Your living on the lands we stole, hypocrite.
Con artist: This is coming from an Argie? Did you read the article?
Breaking contracts: Oh an Argentina hasn't? Especially when it comes to the indigenous?
Manipulator: Again your country hasn't has it?
Racist: Hypocrite, every nation on Earth has racists you yourself are one for example, with your anti-everything rants.

So all in all you colonials living in your colonially created countries need to keep your mouths shut when it comes to this issue as anything you say is hypocritical. If you don't like our 'crimes' then surrender your property to a native and sod off out of South America.

And so I shall state my point again:How can you hate us when the nation you love the most is one of our many inventions? Is it envy Mr TTT? Or do you feel annoyed in the knowledge that your anti European rants mean little when most of the colonial “crimes” that we carried out are manifested into your daily life as an Argentine living in a colonially created country? Maybe I should say it again: Were did this European oriented, cultured and languaged country come from? Did it full from the Sky?
179 St.John (#) Sep 22nd, 2012 - 02:07 am Report abuse
@ 174 Truth_Telling_Troll

”Everyone does realize that the word “colonization” is derived from “colony”, which in turn comes from Spanish “colonia”, which in turn was as a coined term taken from Colon (the Spanish last name for Columbus), to describe any settlement OVERSEAS (term also coined in the European genocidal era).“

Then I am not a member of ”Everyone“.

The word ”colony“ is derived from latin ”colonia“ = ”farm“ which in itself comes from ”colonus“ = ”farmer”.

Later (still latin) it became the word for a settlement created by people migrating from a home territory.

The first Roman colonies were located on the Italian peninsula, same as Rome, on land that been conquered by the Roman as early as the 3rd century BC.
The first Roman colonies we know for sure were in Latium, very close to Rome, next came Ostia (today a suburb of the city of Rome), Antium (about 56 km south of Rome), and Tarracina (about 56 km southeast of Rome).

So much for Columbus and Xxxxx_Telling_Troll's knowledge of “colony”.
180 briton (#) Sep 22nd, 2012 - 10:39 am Report abuse
TTT
you really do deserve everything you get,

T T T ..V..2012, no contest.
181 RICO (#) Sep 22nd, 2012 - 11:00 am Report abuse
Presumably as Argentina beleives a dispute over the sovereignty of land means that economic development by the controlling party should be stopped they will now stop all economic devlopment in the 10 disputed provinces.
182 Conor J (#) Sep 22nd, 2012 - 03:16 pm Report abuse
I think I pissed off Mr TTT.
183 KretinaK (#) Sep 22nd, 2012 - 03:20 pm Report abuse
Thursday Sept. 27th scrotum neck is going to give a speech at Harvard University!! Argentine and pr0-democratic students have totally trashed her on the website announcing her appearance and are planning a protest - bananas in hand - when she speaks.......forum.iop.harvard.edu/content/public-address-her-excellency-cristina-fern%C3%A1ndez-de-kirchner-president-argentina
184 LEPRecon (#) Sep 22nd, 2012 - 07:36 pm Report abuse
@179 - St John

Don't tell me TTT was wrong. How can that be? He's a genius. He told me so himself. LOL

I doubt he'll be back on this thread, as he has a complete inability to man up and admit that he is wrong. A bit like the Argentine government. :0D
185 Moriety (#) Sep 22nd, 2012 - 08:24 pm Report abuse
@183 KretinsK,

Well said, please let us know how she fares, I hope she gets roasted.

For your miserable Argentinians wallowing in your mistake of electing her, here are two British songs to put a smile on your faces:

Jake Budd- “Two fingers” (he's as miserable as your leader have made you)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4cKnY87_qI

Frank Turner - “Wessex Boy”

On why belonging to a good nation rather than a shitty one is great:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNHcS0Bic78

Enjoy and smile you miserable little............
186 Yuleno (#) Sep 22nd, 2012 - 09:25 pm Report abuse
185#tell us something you know.Your age for example or can't you count to 7.
187 Clyde15 (#) Sep 22nd, 2012 - 09:35 pm Report abuse
#177
And their successors live on in Argentina !!
188 Moriety (#) Sep 22nd, 2012 - 09:42 pm Report abuse
@ 188 Yuleno

I'm in my fourties and an ex punk. Sadly watching your nation doing a “crash and burn” session.

Wake up Argentina!
189 Yuleno (#) Sep 23rd, 2012 - 11:21 am Report abuse
188# As I said,can't you count to 7.Waiting for you to count and more support for the indigenous people's rights to be respected worldwide and for discrimination against all people to become a thing of the past.Like slavery.
190 Falkland Islands (#) Sep 23rd, 2012 - 12:18 pm Report abuse
@188 we have been trying to wake them to reality and the truth for years, but they always stick their heads in the sand, someday someone with shoot them in the arse and then for them it will be too late, no more Argentina.
191 LEPRecon (#) Sep 23rd, 2012 - 12:59 pm Report abuse
@189 - Yuleno

Well why doesn't Argentina show the rest of the world the way. Start respecting the human rights of the indigenous people of Argentina instead of supporting a government that is stealing their land, and disavowing them of their rights.

Until you start doing this, every time Argentina mentions the words 'human rights', 'colonialism', and 'imperialist'; the world will look at you and say 'hypocrites'.

Put your own house in order first before dictating to others.

P.S. you mention slavery. Now human trafficking is a worldwide problem, and there are many laws, and interpol operations to try and disrupt their networks. Tell me. How is this relevant to the fact that the colonial Argentinian government continuing to disposses the indigenous population of Argentina of their lands and their rights?
192 Yuleno (#) Sep 23rd, 2012 - 01:48 pm Report abuse
Welcome back LEP.Have you been changing the charities (how many,more than 4),and are now contributing much need donations to survival?
As much as Argentina would like to have more influence in the position it finds itself in,it doesn't.You people want your gold plated HDMI leads as you want the best you can get.Where it comes from and what the costs are you are not bothered about.Only it's price.
I am reminded of the silverback gorilla that where protected in Rawanda as they were of interested to Europeans and people of the USA.Rawandan people were forced by their gvt,to give up their land for this.Its a pity that the kind of concern is not expressed toward indigenous people globally.
Why doesn't Europe stop trading with Argentina,and what would Barrick of Canada say about their investment.
Be careful when you throw stones LEP,they might be thrown back at you.
193 LEPRecon (#) Sep 23rd, 2012 - 04:32 pm Report abuse
@192 - Yuleno

As always you bring up the past. What is happening in Argentina is the present, right now, at this moment, not something from 30, 40 or 50 years or more ago. So how can you blindly defend a government that is doing these things? And doing these things in YOUR name?

But carry on denying the indigenous population their rights. It shows the world just how hypocritical Argentina is.

You mock me for caring about and supporting organisations that try to protect the world, the environment and the rights of human beings around the globe.

What do you do by comparison to help your fellow man? Do you help the poor? Do you give to charity? I'd be interested to know why you feel so 'superior' to mock my small contribution to helping the world.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Or for the biblical version, let he who is without sin cast the 1st stone.

We all have sinned, and will continue to sin, that's human nature. But Yuleno, are you so pure that you can cast that 1st stone? I doubt it very much.
194 GeoffWard2 (#) Sep 23rd, 2012 - 05:35 pm Report abuse
Both you Yul and you Lep know what's wrong and what's right, but you both have a very limited ability to do more than talk about it. But good, considered discussion helps not only you but also the rest of us interested readers. Keep up the good work. G.
195 briton (#) Sep 23rd, 2012 - 06:00 pm Report abuse
Until Argentina fully understands what it has done wrong,

It will never be able to put things right,

That’s the real problem,
They are being reared and educated to believe they are in the right, and have done nothing wrong, therefore no need to say sorry,

And who do you blame for this,

Well,
Its defiantly not the fault of the British...
196 Rosarino (#) Sep 23rd, 2012 - 06:27 pm Report abuse
Is incredible how you want to support your accusations of “colonialism” to my country-

Please try whit Roca-Runciman agreement........ your ancestor eat our cows for years, and the cows eat from the land of indigenous......why you think we move the indigenous? Only because we want?
Or because you need cheap foods for support your economy?
Mapuches are originals from Chile, not Patagonia, and is a chilean subject-

How you think someone give´s you rigth´s to accuse us as colonialist?

Indigenous have rigths same as any argentine-
197 briton (#) Sep 23rd, 2012 - 06:39 pm Report abuse
ah
A new disc on the blobb...lol.
198 LEPRecon (#) Sep 23rd, 2012 - 06:48 pm Report abuse
@196 -Rosarino

Your agrument doesn't make sense. I think you'll find that the Mapuches owned the land before Argentina, Chile or any other South American country existed. Your colonial ancestors turned up, committed acts of ethnic cleansing and stole their land.

And the descendants of those colonists want to steal what little land the descendants of the survivors of that ethnic cleansing have left.
199 Yuleno (#) Sep 23rd, 2012 - 07:08 pm Report abuse
LEP.You pick out what you want from what I say.Why does your country trade with countries that have indigenous people,because every country with an indigenous population moves that population if it needs to.Generally it is for the land they occupy for one reason or another.It is because they can sell the wood from the trees grown, that the Mapuche people in Chile are protesting at present(present you know).In Argentina indigenous people successfully repulsed a second mining company from invading their land.And in the case of Pascua Lama,with the support of environmentalist who are also concerned about the continuous consumption of the earths resources,the struggle continues,currently.
If you take the trouble you will find plenty of opportunities to join in the struggle,not only in Argentina,but in many places throughout the globe.
Now please don't try and determine what I can say in my post.If you think I go off subject,direct your comments to those who stay on subject.That is if you can and can resist the chance to pontificate,my child.
200 Rosarino (#) Sep 23rd, 2012 - 07:35 pm Report abuse
197- briton: if you have the honesty to read more about my country you will find we are the most close to UK culture-
Even my english friend (who live´s here) said I can believed how many constructions , bridges, and lot of pieces of english culture we have here-

In UNLZ (Universidad Nacional de Lomas de Zamora) we have a monolit remembering the foundation of the first colony of Scottish people in Argentina: the first manufacturer of butter was there (now in a museum); in the same way, Parish Robertson College, Canning (City) or Saint George School, even Saint Marks School, all in the same place (south of Buenos Aires)

When Industrial Revolution expulse Scottish, Welsh, etc.....where you think you were? To Brazil? Chile?

They came here- and we receive lot of english people....same as today-
Remember: always receive english people, even in the worsth days of your history as a country-

Regards.
201 Troy Tempest (#) Sep 23rd, 2012 - 07:58 pm Report abuse
@196 Rosarino


Please try whit Roca-Runciman agreement........ your ancestor eat our cows for years, and the cows eat from the land of indigenous......why you think we move the indigenous? Only because we want?
Or because you need cheap foods for support your economy?
Mapuches are originals from Chile, not Patagonia, and is a chilean subject-”

So you conclude that it is acceptable for Argentinians, like yourself, to steal from, and exploit Indigenous people's because:

- you are obligated to grow food and sell it a profit (yours, not Indians) in order to supply the UK (foreigners, enemies?) and other countries?

- these people are not 'your' indigenous people, even though they live there, and you have said they have the rights of all Argentinians, and you have no moral or legal responsibility towards them and their welfare?

- you are forced to do things that are not your fault and out of your control???

Your argument does not make sense - “we do terrible things, but other people make us do it , we are not responsible for our actions”

Is that the selfish way of all the Argentinian people???
202 Rosarino (#) Sep 23rd, 2012 - 08:42 pm Report abuse
@198 Leprecon: Please don´t be ignorat and read more history-
Our original people in Patagoniawas the TEHUELCHES. NOT Mapuches-
They cross Andes close to 1830 to conquest Thehuelches-
We declare our independence in 1816...they know about us ;) as argentines-
es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calfucur%C3%A1

201: Troy:
I can´t conclude nothing, because i´m just 42 years old-
And if is acceptable or not, is not my problem TODAY, because that agreement doesn´t exist .......And what they to what they do in the past-

Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, and Chile, was support the Industrial Revolution of UK, accepting to sell cheapest raw materials, and import expensive goods.... if you read a litlle beat, you can see all the RAILWAYS from BSAS , to places like Paraguay, Bolivia, Uruguay....because it was made in that way for sale our raw materials to Europe.....not for develop local industries-

Any people who lives in Argentina has rigths same as we have; only can´t vote if your not a citizen-
But for defend your rigths OVER YOUR LAND you need a PROPERTY certificate...and the indigenas has not any paper to justify they rigths...even whitout, government protect their rigths to STAY in their land-
Example: Mr. Benneton has 500.ooo ha in Patagonia, and of course has perfect titles...but part are claim by mapuches....try to convence Mr. Benneton to give for free 200.000 ha of their own land -

We are not force to do nothing; we support the claim of our indigenas, maybe not in the perfect way they want -

The other problem is SOJA: because the land is very expensive rigth know. no one claim cheapest lands-

My arguments has too much sense: I invited you to read history; whe are not VICTIMS, we agree whit british policy for years, and today we paid the consecuences-
Is our fouls, not british fouls....they play their gamevery well-

For example, we provide to UK in the 2WW lot of thing, and UK NEVER PAY- how they “pay”.... we bougth the railways......
203 LEPRecon (#) Sep 23rd, 2012 - 08:53 pm Report abuse
@202 - Rosarino

Your ancestors still stole the land from the natives, and the Argentine government is still stealing their land. The natives didn't have borders, there was no Chile, Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil or Venezula, these countries are inventions of the colonists, not the natives.

As for Britain owing Argentina for world war 2, don't make me laugh. The UK paid for meat and other produce, and Argentina profited hugely from it. Argentina also profited from the Germans, and gave many Nazi's refuge after the war, being paid for in stolen money, stolen from the people they murdered.

As for owning money. Argentina still owes the UK a lot of money. No sign of Argentina honouring any of it's international debt though is there?
204 Yuleno (#) Sep 23rd, 2012 - 09:35 pm Report abuse
Now now LEP.Are you throwing stones going off the subject.You are miserable because you are not living in a powerful country that could impose its will on other countries,as it once did. Do not forget that your country was very influential in Argentina in the Roca times.Also your countryman Darwin recommended 'dealing' with the 'Indians'.Do you not know LEP,when you are throwing stones.PASCUA LAMA calls for your attention.Get on the subject,we understand the sins of your ancestors should not be visited on you.Help to change the way the indigenous people are treated in Argentina and everywhere in the world.Dont waste your effort defending your country's legacy,good and bad.
205 LEPRecon (#) Sep 23rd, 2012 - 09:57 pm Report abuse
@204 -.Yuleno

Why would I want to live in the past? Why would I want to impose my will on anybody?

You're right about one thing.nwe are not living in the past, and the children shouldn't be blamed for the sins of the father. But what is happening in Argentina is current, not history.

If the government of Argentina won't protect the native Amerindians then who will?

People like you Yuleno should be campaigning to stop these human rights abuses that are occurring right under your nose.

If all you show is indifference, then the government will continue to treat these people as sub-human, not worthy of the same rights of other Argentinians.
206 Anbar (#) Sep 23rd, 2012 - 10:03 pm Report abuse
So, having read through much of the post here the Argentine Defence against accusations of colonialism is:

“You all did it once, so its only fair we get a crack at it!”

And, as an alternative:

“It wasn't us who did it! It was those naughty Europeans and especially the British”

What I would like to know though is; how can the current situation, condemned by the UN, be the fault of the British?

.....just asking a simple question....
207 briton (#) Sep 23rd, 2012 - 11:25 pm Report abuse
200 Rosarino (
197- Briton: if you have the honesty to read more about my country ,

Tell me something,
What Assumes did you note, that one was replying to you,

One merely made a comment abt a new disc,
Nothing more
Nothing less,
But as for your question,
If indeed you Argies read more about my country,
You would not be acting aggressively against a tiny little defenceless unarmed island would you?
Knowing full well we [Great Britain] also a little island, 10 times smaller than argentina, would indeed fight to protect these islanders,
You are the aggressor are you not?
Still,
Don’t take thing personally, its only a blogg..

p/ss
if you like the british so much, might we suggest you have a word with some of your less than polite countrymen, for their abhorrent abuse,
like 2012, malen , axel pirate hunter, ect ect,
then we can all live in peace,
can we not .......
208 Yuleno (#) Sep 24th, 2012 - 11:12 am Report abuse
LEP the campaign to protect the indigenous people is global.You can be involved if you so care.But you are not are you.You are only concerned with how the issue assist you in your prejudices.There are no indigenous people on the Malvinas.They are colonisers.The indigenous people of Argentina have no concerns with the issue of the Malvinas.What the indigenous people of Argentina want,is to preserve the traditional lands and thereby preserve their culture.Sometimes these needs come into confrontation with other people who want to use this land.Sometimes the laws of Argentina are used to take these lands from indigenous people legally.Sometimes illegally thru intimidation and harassment.
Are you against both processes and what will you do about it.Dont forget to check your food labels and what 'British' companies are doing while you moralise on a very narrow area of an important issue.
209 Zhivago (#) Sep 24th, 2012 - 11:36 am Report abuse
202 Rosarino
You should never bring up Argentina's actions over WW2, they were disgraceful and your national shame. You should all be paying the holocaust tax as they do in Germany, but alas, Germans pay their taxes, Argentines don't. There's a new coin for you to commemorate, a ten (10) peso coin, on one side you could have the face of Adolph Eichmann and on the other side you could have the ElAL plane that spirited him out of there, right under your noses I might add. There should be a lot of swastikas carved into your foreheads.
210 kelperabout (#) Sep 24th, 2012 - 12:14 pm Report abuse
Argentina neither has the military might nor the will, or money for that matter to even contemplate another war over the Islands. They know that they blew their chance before 1982 when they tried to suck up to us with false promises and we Islanders saw them then for what they were for and rejected them.
CFK does not have the support any longer in Argentina and it is only a matter of time before she is just another piece of History. Argentina will then elect a new presidant who I feel will be more democratic this time round. The Argentine people have had enough of isolation and will soon stand up again. One day Argentina will be a respected nation but untill they remove all the dictators it is not going to happen for a long time. Now is the time for the real people of Argentina to start telling their next generations the truth. Stop the propoganda they enforce on their people and start acting like they are a people that the world can once again live alongside. If they don't they will sink deeper into isolation. I am sure that is not the desire of the vast majority of decent Argentines.

The Falklands Issue is only causing more grief for themselves and at the end of the day is such a small group of islands worth destroying what they have. We Islanders will still be progressing through time with or without the unfriendly attitude of the Argentine government.
211 LEPRecon (#) Sep 24th, 2012 - 03:16 pm Report abuse
@208 - Yuleno

As I have said previously I donate money to various organisations who campaign to protect the rights of native peoples whose very way of life are in danger of bein destroyed by 'commercial' interests.

But these particular human rights abuses are happening right now in YOUR country, by YOUR 'democratically' elected government in YOUR name.

Yet you don't address this situation, you just try to divert attention away from it, because in your mind Argentina CANNOT be criticised, because Argentina is PERFECT, and anyway other countries are doing things like this too, or have done things like this in the past, so it's okay for Argentina to do it.

Pathetic, Yuleno.
212 Yuleno (#) Sep 24th, 2012 - 03:49 pm Report abuse
Pascua Lama?gypsies and travellers.Laws of the land.UN is important.
Consistency would better.Gold plated gadgets.You have some,don't you.
213 LEPRecon (#) Sep 24th, 2012 - 04:52 pm Report abuse
@212

And yet again you try to deflect what this article is about. Yet again you refuse to accept that the Argentine government is in the wrong. And as the UN has noticed, which makes this a routine occurrence, not an isolated event.

Every response is more pathetic than the last, because you know that Argentina is in the wrong, but you have an inability to admit it.
214 Yuleno (#) Sep 24th, 2012 - 06:47 pm Report abuse
LEP.From post 37-
LEP.This failure to honour commitments and to condemn colonial occupation of land by the use of force in the past is hypocritical.Argentina is guilty of this form of behaviour
Now where are you missing something.Are you off your tracks.I have ask you many times about what you can do about this but you have never answered.
The report from Anaya follows from a visit to Argentina.The report does not condemn Argentina it says it should do better.There is no question that the projects which require making traditional lands available for exploitation.It is the process of consultation that draws the criticism and not the fact that indigenous people are moved from their traditional homes.You however harp on about colonialism.I think you will find that there is no accusation of colonialism from the UN.
The report requests “the suspension of all process and administrative actions to evict indigenous communities from their lands until a full technical-juridical procedural survey of lands occupied by the indigenous peoples is completed”.
That's what the article says that the UN says.
No big objection,if you like,just a could do better.What can be done,do you think,so that eviction can be stopped.As an Irishman you must know about evictions.
215 LEPRecon (#) Sep 24th, 2012 - 07:36 pm Report abuse
@214 - Yuleno

It's your country, what are YOU going to do about it?

Nothing because you support the very thing that you are always blaming others of doing.

Is the Argentine government going to listen to the UN? Is the Argentine government going to follow its own laws?

It hasn't so far, has it?
216 Captain Poppy (#) Sep 24th, 2012 - 09:23 pm Report abuse
yuleno elieves what he wants. He ignoired a dozen questions I've asked him and just goes by them. He is not even worth responding to. The la campora trolls are dead.....only they do not know it.
IMF told argentina point blank today that to continue as a member, reform to the standards that 188 natiuons use or sanctions. Snactions mean good bye international trade with U$ dollars.
217 Yuleno (#) Sep 24th, 2012 - 10:05 pm Report abuse
Poppy.What questions.Ive already asked you that.Are you drinking today.Enjoy it if you are because you are getting incoherent.
LEP.Are you only prepared to give to charity and trust them to do your bidding.Will you not do anything about Rio Tinto and their activities which causes the displacement of indigenous people.Could you have done something about the hillsborough scandal.
In Argentina,various groups fight to defend indigenous people and these groups link up with groups from Europe,Australia,The USA ,Canada and with indigenous groups in other countries.Why,if you understand the injustice that indigenous people endure,in Argentina and elsewhere are you unable to include your voice in support of these struggles.Money facilitates but voice demonstrates.
Do you think that it doesn't warrant your effort and it is the problem of the people of Argentina?
218 Troy Tempest (#) Sep 24th, 2012 - 10:10 pm Report abuse
Yuleno

@216 Poppy
Seems very clear to everyone else .

Argentina understands, but does not want to hear.
219 KretinaK (#) Sep 25th, 2012 - 02:02 am Report abuse
Here in Argentina we are heavily protesting the Kirchner administration, their endless corruption in every corner of the government, stealing of public funds, outright lies to the public about everything from security to the economy to official inflation figures.
Today we start a new protest in Argentina - it's called the “ANTI-KK campaña”. In our language “KK” is pronounced KaKa, and that is what we think of the Kirchner administration.
We ask all citizens against the Kirchner “KK” regime to leave a bag of excrement or bring your dog to defecate on the steps of Congress, on the steps of the Casa Rosada, or in front of the door of any office of “La Cámpora” or another militant organization of this joke of a president called “Kolina”.
Leave bags of excrement, or garbage or any other repulsive, non-dangerous item that stinks on the steps of or in front of any of these government related places. This is a peaceful protest, non-violent, and will send a strong message to the “KaKa” government that is destroying lives in Argentina.
KK para todos en el gobierno!.......
Harvard forum where CFK (ka ka queen) will give a speech on Thursday.......
forum.iop.harvard.edu/content/public-address-her-excellency-cristina-fern%C3%A1ndez-de-kirchner-president-argentina.......
This is how much her own people HATE her.......
www.facebook.com/RepudioACFKEnNuevaYork#!
And how turkey scrotum neck stays in power.......
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyPC0SD0PGw
220 Pete Bog (#) Sep 25th, 2012 - 01:40 pm Report abuse
@217
“In Argentina,various groups fight to defend indigenous people and these groups link up with groups from Europe,Australia,The USA ,Canada and with indigenous groups in other countries”

This is to be commended and these groups are doing a great job. Thanks for this information Yuleno.

However the Argentine government should be protecting these people instead of wasting their time bullying the Falkland Islanders.
221 Yuleno (#) Sep 25th, 2012 - 02:45 pm Report abuse
It does not take much time to bully people occupying the Malvinas.They're so jittery that if anyone says boo they get frightened.They bully themselves.Argentina is addressing the situation of the indigenous people.Read the report and come out of your bog.
222 Conor J (#) Sep 25th, 2012 - 03:31 pm Report abuse
@221Bullying us? Ha ha ha ha You tried it in 1982 and your head was driven so far down the toilet you didn't and wont try it again.
223 Yuleno (#) Sep 25th, 2012 - 03:48 pm Report abuse
Check out post 220 and make your own comments.Dont but into a conversation with rantings.Its not the best way to be.
But maybe you didn't know that.
224 Troy Tempest (#) Sep 25th, 2012 - 04:07 pm Report abuse
@223 yahoo

You pompous twit.
Argentina has sneak attacked before, when they thought they had a chance.
Currently, they are conducting a war of propaganda against the civilian inhabitants of the Falklands.
CFk is at the UN bleating to them to put political pressure on the UK and Falklands.
Additionally, they are imposing their own economic sanctions on the FI and encouraging others to do the same.
Further, they now claim the oil and fishing resources of the FI, as their own, and Argentina's navy has harassed fishing vessels within FI fishing grounds.

That would look to anyone like bullying and sabre-rattling.
225 GeoffWard2 (#) Sep 25th, 2012 - 04:31 pm Report abuse
Yul #208

just a thought, but surely the 'colonisers' of TFI are identical in status to the 'indigenous' peoples of the Continent. Both were/are the first people to inhabit their landmass.
The UN Committee on Colonisation would have a real problem treating both groups even-handedly!

I guess all those that destroyed the original populations are watertight and unable to be criticised by the said Committee.
226 Yuleno (#) Sep 25th, 2012 - 05:41 pm Report abuse
No Geoff they are not the same.The Malvinas is occupied by non-traditional people.They occupied the land under the protection of a colonising nation.
That doesn't mean that after so long an occupation,179years,that they do not have a claim to remain on the Malvinas,but the land or islands,whichever you wish to call it,belong to Argentina.
227 HansNiesund (#) Sep 25th, 2012 - 06:02 pm Report abuse
@226

That's at least 179 years you've had to learn the basic elements of logical consistency, but you obviously still have some way to go.

In the same way as the Falklands Islands, Argentina is also occupied by non-traditional people who occupied the land under the protection of a colonising nation. The difference is that the Argentine non-traditional people drove out or otherwise suppressed the traditional people who were already there.

And as we all know well here, the land or islands, whichever you wish to call it, have ever belonged to Argentina, and almost certainly never will as long as you are completely incapable of developing a consistent rationale for acquiring them.
228 Yuleno (#) Sep 25th, 2012 - 06:17 pm Report abuse
227#
Unfortunately for you,Argentina did,and you are inaccurate to say they never did.Aren't you.Yes you are.
229 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Sep 25th, 2012 - 06:36 pm Report abuse
@191

“Put your own house in order first before dictating to others.”

Mighty words from an Englishman whose country has never actually followed the above.

A hypocritical nation accusing another of being hypocrite, isn't that double hypocrisy?
230 HansNiesund (#) Sep 25th, 2012 - 06:51 pm Report abuse
@227

All we've ever heard here is a claim based on an inheritance from Spain that was never left to you, and an expulsion of civilians that never happened.

You went to war over this in 1982, and lost.

Now in 2012 you aim to deny the islanders a voice in their own future and call it decolonization, and demand negotiations on sovereignity while declaring that sovereignity isn't negotiable.

The only possible answers to this all end in “....off!”.
231 LEPRecon (#) Sep 25th, 2012 - 07:01 pm Report abuse
@229 - Tobias

Lame.

What are you going to do about defending the rights of the native amerindians? You are a native Amerindian today, aren't you? Or are you now descended from european colonists? It's difficult to tell with you Tobias, as you change 'your allegiance' depending on which insane Argentine policy you are trying to defend.

@228 - Yuleno

Still trying to derail the topic whilst your government still abuses the native Amerindians?

Your government that still denies basic human rights to these natives. The same government that want to steal the land off the Falklanders and deny them their basic human rights.

Pathetic.
232 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Sep 25th, 2012 - 07:11 pm Report abuse
@231

Why are you changing the topic your brought up? Does the UK do, act, and behave the way it bosses around others to do yes or no (hint: I have a bunch of links to post here to disprove should you say “yes”)

As for my background I have said it a million times I'm not European. Otherwise I would have killed myself long ago from disgust and gag of such filthy genetics.

I'm not here to debate the policy, I'm here to remind everyone Argentina can do what the fk it wants within its territory. And there is not a quark any of you can do about it.

The policy itself is a matter I discuss internally, not with outsiders.

Besides, discussing protection of natives with a Brit renders me into uncontrollable laughter within seconds.
233 Yuleno (#) Sep 25th, 2012 - 08:08 pm Report abuse
232#I have to agree with your laughter when the subject of human rights comes up with a Brit.But LEP is Irish.Well by birth he is,and he knows about the famine,but since he join the British army,he doesn't know what he is, immigrant or native.
LEP it's a bit stupid to keep saying what is Argentina doing about the indigenous people.Its what the article is about-
The problems of Argentina’s indigenous stems from the “historic de-possession of vast tracks of their lands by ranchers and the big farming, oil and mining corporations which operate in the lands claimed by these communities” which lack “a legal acknowledgement of their lands according to their forms of use and occupation” concludes the report presented by Anaya.
That's from the article.Theres no question that nothing is being done.As you know laws and regulations have force.When the owner of the land is evicted because the neighbours don't like them that is a bad thing,and Catholics in ulster know all about that.But in Argentina the situation is not that problem and it is a question of taking cognisance of the situation of the indigenous people.
234 Troy Tempest (#) Sep 25th, 2012 - 08:40 pm Report abuse
@232 233

Did you two rehearse this “dog & pony show”?!

Perhaps there is only one of you, a professional La Campora troll writing with 2 identities, perhaps ? LOL

“Yuleno” - great pantomime “explaining” to “TTT”.

Or was it the other way around? You are so interchangeable and you follow the same script!! :-D

Anyway, the Brit part is irrelevant.

The UN is telling YOU,Argentina, to address their human-rights issues, TODAY.

It is in your power, you have agreed displacement of indigenous people's is immoral, yet you are trying to ignore the UN.

Now that you are in the world spotlight, can Argentina wriggle out of fulfilling their moral duty???

Hypocrites.
235 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Sep 25th, 2012 - 08:42 pm Report abuse
The UN is not telling us anything. The UN is a puppet of the UK so of course they don't say anything about the abuses of the UK.

No one here takes the UN seriously.
236 Yuleno (#) Sep 25th, 2012 - 09:05 pm Report abuse
234#
Pure misinterpretation .As usual.
The UN is telling YOU,Argentina, to address their human-rights issues, TODAY.
Where is it saying that?
It is in your power, you have agreed displacement of indigenous people's is immoral, yet you are trying to ignore the UN.
Who agreed it was immoral?
Now that you are in the world spotlight,
Not in the world,maybe in your world.Keep a sense of proportion about things instead of getting things wrong.
Argentina must address this matter and it is doing.Quicker would be better,but we will and not because of anything Brits say.Since you gave up your empire your significance has declined.Did you not know that.
237 Zhivago (#) Sep 25th, 2012 - 11:09 pm Report abuse
235 troll
Then why is Cristina on her knees performing fellatio on the UN as we write?
238 Troy Tempest (#) Sep 25th, 2012 - 11:42 pm Report abuse
@235 troll

“No one here takes the UN seriously.”

Thanks for that. I guess you are conceding that the UN recommendation that UK “negotiate” with Argentina for Falklands sovereignty is not something to “take seriously ”either. LOL

Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!

Advertisement

Get Email News Reports!

Get our news right on your inbox.
Subscribe Now!

Advertisement