Saturday, November 17th 2012 - 22:53 UTC

Mercosur condemns “disproportionate use of force” in Gaza; calls for immediate cease fire

Mercosur condemned the “disproportionate use of force” in Gaza and called on Israel and Palestinians for an immediate cease fire of the conflict that has already left al least forty people killed, mostly civilians.

The Mercosur text was released by Brazil which holds the rotating chair

In the release Mercosur leaders expressed their “strongest condemnation of the violence unleashed between Israel and Palestine” and “deeply regret the loss of lives and expresses its concern with the disproportionate use of force” said the text released by the Brazilian government.

They call on both sides “to an immediate end to violence and to the UN Security Council to fully assume its responsibilities. The path for overcoming the current crisis is through diplomacy and dialogue”, continues the text.

Mercosur members, Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, Venezuela and Paraguay (suspended) recognized the State of Palestine and last December signed a free trade agreement with the Palestinian Authority. Mercosur signed a similar agreement with Israel in 2007.

The South American block also expressed “its support to the request from the State of Palestine to obtain status of UN Observer member”.

The intense air bombardments by Israel on Gaza on Saturday killed at least ten people and destroyed the headquarters of the Hamas government.

Since the launching by Israel last Wednesday of the military operation “Defence Pillar” 43 people have been killed (40 Palestinians and 3 Israelis) and another 400, mostly Palestinians have been injured.

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon will be visiting the region in coming days to try and convince Israelis and Palestinians to agree on a cease fire and truce.

Meantime the US and EU called for de-escalation of hostilities and have said to understand Israel’s reaction and blame Hamas for the current conflict.

President Barack Obama personally urged leaders in Turkey and Egypt to engage with Hamas over a “de-escalation” of hostilities in Gaza, while continuing to support Israeli strikes despite mounting Palestinian civilian casualties.

Speaking on board Air Force One en route to Asia, White House national security adviser Ben Rhodes blamed Hamas for the current round of violence, stating that the “precipitating factor” for Israeli air strikes was rockets fired into civilian territories from Gaza.

Meanwhile from Brussels it was announced that EU ministers of foreign affairs will discuss the situation and the escalating tension in the Middle East.

The EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs Catherine Ashton had previously condemned the latest violence between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza that has led to civilian deaths on both sides, and pinned the blame for the crisis on Hamas.

Ms Catherine Ashton said she was “deeply concerned at the escalating violence” and deplored the loss of civilian life.

“The rocket attacks by Hamas and other factions in Gaza which began this current crisis are totally unacceptable for any government and must stop,” Ashton said in a statement. “Israel has the right to protect its population from these kinds of attacks.” But she urged Israel to be “proportionate” in its response.
 

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1 reality check (#) Nov 17th, 2012 - 11:24 pm Report abuse
Hamas stops firing rockets, Isreal stops bombing, it's that simple.
2 British_Kirchnerist (#) Nov 17th, 2012 - 11:58 pm Report abuse
Good statement, the voice of all sane people around the world no doubt. Hopefully mercosur will revoke the agreement with Israel, Chavez may well push for that, no?
3 Pirate Love (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 01:35 am Report abuse
hamas kept poking that tiger daily, now the cage is open and hes hungry.
as the US says israel has right to self defence :)
lets just hope hamas man up and keep the civilian death to a minimum instead of using them as human shields and take on the israelis head on.

Verdict Hamas: preventable self-destruction
Israel : securing peace.
4 Forgetit86 (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 03:21 am Report abuse
Numbers 1 and 3 should rather read the news before passing judgment and justifying the bombardment of a poor people.

I've posted the following on many forums by now, but since misinformation about Israel's wars si nearly universal, here we are again:

On November 5th, Israel shot dead an unarmed young Gazan man. Prior to that, there was a two-weeks old ceasefire in force. The man was mentally ill and unarmed.

On November 8th, IDF tanks and bulldozers invaded southern Gaza and a soldier shot dead a Gazan boy who was playing soccer outside his home.
On November 10th came the first retaliation of the PFLP against a military jeep, to which Israel responded by firing tank shells and killing 5 civilians.Since at least Operation Cast Lead, it's always the same story:

1 - Israel shells Gaza;

2 - Hamas or assorted Palestinian groups respond, in self-defense, with their primitive arsenal, which kills far less Israelis than the number of Palestinians killed by Israeli tank shells, drones and jets;

3 - Israel, then, conveniently forgets who started the provocations and its media spin doctors accuse Hamas of yet again inflaming another conflict by launching missiles. Meanwhile, Israel kills a bunch of innocent Gazans even though, to the international media, it complains about the risk of Hamas's attacks on its civilians.

Some links providing a timeline of events and challenging Israel's propaganda:

antiwar.com/blog/2012/11/11/israels-latest-assault-on-gaza-the-lie-of-who-started-it/

www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/11/201211168825952495.html

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/15/israel-gaza-obama-assassinations

www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/15/bodies-for-ballots.html

rt.com/news/peace-settlement-hamas-israel-882/

stopwar.org.uk/index.php/palestine-and-israel/2027-who-is-doing-the-killing-in-gaza-noam-chomsky-and-others-challenge-the-worlds-media

www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2012/11/16/john-mearsheimer/a-pi
5 Forgetit87 (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 03:25 am Report abuse
In sum, Israel's use of force is not only disproportionate, but also unprovoked, since it was Israel, not Hamas or any other Gazan group, who broke the ceasefire in force until then. Israel has a history of breaking ceasefires.

As even an Israeli historian, Avi Shlaim, recognized, it was the same during the Gaza War of 2008-9: Israel started the war, Hamas fired missiles in retaliation against Israel's violation of the truce, and Israel used Hamas's missiles to justify an attack against Gazans in general.

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-obama

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/03/gaza-tony-blair-betrayal
6 Ayayay (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 04:09 am Report abuse
@4 Excellent analysis.
7 reality check (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 07:24 am Report abuse
I read it.
Hamas stops firing rockets, Isreal stops the bombing, still simple.
8 Leiard (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 07:43 am Report abuse
@4
A very biased view in favour of Hamas.
9 Forgetit87 (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 07:53 am Report abuse
#7
If you read it, and don't have any counter-argument, but still cling to your talking points, then that's proof that you're an idiot, banality check. Israel started attacking during a truce and before Hamas launched its first missile, capisce? There were no Hamas missiles when Israel decided to attack. By saying that there would be no war of Hamas didn't launch missiles, you're giving evidence of such dissonance with REALITY, that I can only think you're brainwashed with so much propaganda and thus not liable to grasp the truth.

#8
It is in favour of truth and based on verifiable, widely reportyed facts. If you think I'm biased, why don't you produce a timeline consistent with your favorite version of facts and cite evidence and sources supportive of it? I did all of that and posted a number of articles written by different authors, some of them renowned Israeli academicians, that support the content of my post.
10 reality check (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 08:24 am Report abuse
Ok clever cloggs, you seem to have it all sorted out, don't you. This is all Isreals fault.
Here's another one for you, which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Simplistic solutions are often the best solutions, you want the killing to stop? so do most right minded people.
Here's another simplistic solution for you, Isreal stops bombing Hamas stops firing Rockets.
There that better, the end is still the same, a ceasefire.
11 mcarling (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 08:37 am Report abuse
Israel's use of force has been very restrained. The Gazans need to stop firing rockets at Israeli hospitals, school buses, kindergartens, etc. and stop hiding their rocket launchers in kindergartens, on hospital roofs, etc.

The Gazans are worse than the Argentines (who put an anti-aircraft gun on the hospital roof in Stanley).
12 reality check (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 08:43 am Report abuse
Sky News scrolling a banner saying that a Palestinian source states there may be a cease fire as soon as tomorrow, immediately followed by News that sirens have sounded in Tel Aviv, two explosions heard. So it goes on, boots on the ground next.
13 stick up your junta (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 10:24 am Report abuse
@ Forgetit86

I am not an apologists for the dreadful acts of the Israel's, but you as a Brazilian are a bloody hypocrite when it comes to your own country brutality

This highly disturbing video (below) has just come to light showing five Brazilian police officers pushing around a young unarmed boy. He is then shot five times, including in the cheRst.

jonathanturley.org/2011/03/25/shock-video-brazilian-police-shown-shooting-unarmed-child-in-chest/
14 LightThink (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 11:13 am Report abuse
-- 4..-- 5 ..--9..-- 13(your other nano name)

You are incompetent intelligencer on about Middle East only have copied media opinions and news..

Palestine word derivated from Rome Empire era which used a land name for settled fractional Jews there .

Present Israel is a Confederative State which includes Jahuda Jews and Muslim Palestines.
so Palestine's independent won't be realized.

Mossad -Shimbet--and Israel State have many secret weird connections at South America/Africa/East Asia.

The last reciprocal rocketing is just distraction from Syrian Civil War where they have disappointment there.
15 mcarling (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 12:05 pm Report abuse
You're quite right that Hamas started the current skirmish on orders from Iran intended to distract the world from the genocide Iran's minions are committing against the Sunnis in the Syrian Civil Jihad.
16 Mendoza Canadian (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 12:43 pm Report abuse
Even the Palestinians don't get along. They have the terrorist group Hamas in Gaza and the “Palistinian Authority” in the west bank. How do they ever expect to have a country when they can't even like each other?? And Hamas is a terrorist group and should therefore be eliminated.
17 reality check (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 12:59 pm Report abuse
@16
Your right, not so long ago, they were doing Isrealis job for them, Hamas and PLO killing each other in droves, no mercy shown. The only thing keeping it from happening again, is the Isreali territory between them.
18 Zhivago (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 01:11 pm Report abuse
I think the main point here is who cares what Mercosur as a group thinks about anything? Talk about an irrelevant part of the world!
19 Forgetit87 (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 01:50 pm Report abuse
#10
Meaningless BS from someone who's so afraid of getting refuted again he avoids saying anything of substance.

#11
Israel's killed at least 12 children, it's attacked media centers and residential neighborhoods where no militant presence has been seen.

- antiwar.com/blog/2012/11/17/israel-bombing-residential-area-civilian-infrastructure-in-gaza/
- And a personal case: www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/11/15/the-story-behind-the-photo-journalists-11-month-old-son-killed-in-gaza-strikes/

A/b Hamas hiding behind civilians: that's the IDF excuse for its own killing of innocents. The problem is, never has this been corroborated by foreign observers of IDF-Hamas clashes. In the wake of Operation Cast Lead, both Amnesty International and the UN concluded that Israel's allegations of human shield use by Hamas couldn't be verified. Even the Israeli official emergency services body, the Magen David Adom, admitted that, contrary to IDF claims in justification for attacks on Palestinian ambulances, no case of improper use of ambulances by Hamas during Operation Cast Lead was observed.

Israel is the only one EVER caught using civilians and kids as human shields thus far:
www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/21/israeli-soldiers-human-shield-avoid-jail

#13 sticky
Have I left you traumatized or something? Because after many months never reading your idiotic copy-and-paste again, you still carry something in your heart against me and need to lash out? Poor you.

#14
English, please?

#16
If Israel conceded autonomy to the West Bank, wherefrom no rockets are launched at Israel, and the gov't has collaborated with it in security matters, that'd descredit the Hamas radicals. Instead, Israel occiupies the West Bank, expels Palestinians from their lands and colonizes them, thereby giving credit to radical rhetoric against Israel. IF Israel's policy aims at security, it is irrational. But most likely it's aimed at Lebensraum, not security.
20 Forgetit86 (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 01:54 pm Report abuse
#16
Disagreement between Palestinian factions -- fomented not least by the US and Israel -- is not an excuse to hold the whole of Palestine hostage to policies of blockade or colonization and apartheid. As said before, if Israel rewarded the West Bank's Palestinian authority over its collaboration with Israel in security matters by allowing it to become more autnomous and attaining statehood, that would greatly boost the moderates politically, and discredit rejectionist radical groups like Hamas. Instead, I repeat, Israel colonizes the West Bank and expels Palestinians living there from their lands. It's this sort of thing that discredits moderates and boosts Hamas.
21 Conqueror (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 02:09 pm Report abuse
@4 & 5 What a load of garbage. Typical South American. Ignore anything that doesn't suit and lie about the rest. FACT: 3,000 years ago the land belonged to the Jewish Kingdoms of Judah and Israel. FACT: Approx. 2,000 years ago many Jews were forced to flee for their lives when the Roman emperor Vespasian and his son, Titus, decided to “crush” the Jews one and for all. FACT: 1,400 years ago, an Arab fanatic, intent on a personal power cult, invaded and seized the Jewish capital, Jerusalem. FACT: 70-odd years ago, Arab collaborators of the Nazis strengthened their hold and began the propaganda effort. FACT: 65 years ago, Britain returned their homeland to the Jews. FACT: 64 years ago, the same Arab collaborators attacked the State of Israel. They have continued that war, in different forms, for 64 years. They are still losing. Israel is still unbeaten. The so-called “palestinians” should be in Jordan, where they belong.
@19 Why don't you go there and find out for yourself?
22 Forgetit86 (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 02:26 pm Report abuse
Blablablah, the house psychopath has spoken. And your plans to enslave Latin Americans and colonize our continent by sending in specimen of the 'superior', British race -- how are they going, weirdo?

It's a great argument against Israel that fanatic racists and psychos like you sympathize with it.
23 Zhivago (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 02:30 pm Report abuse
18&19 Forget it 86
Like I said, irrelevant and insignificant, please go back to licking yourself!
24 ptolemy (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 02:42 pm Report abuse
I've watched this conflict for the last twenty+ years. It's the same every time. During a lull of peace, one side provokes the other for no apparent reason. It doesn't matter which side starts it,.. because the next time the other side will start it, for no apparent reason. I believe this conflict is ancient in it's roots. And, for what ever side you are on, there is nothing fair about it.
25 Forgetit86 (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 03:18 pm Report abuse
More on Israel's “restrained” offensive: www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/18/us-palestinians-israel-gaza-house-idUSBRE8AH0AP20121118

#23
I didn't even address you, you horsy dumb thing. But I do now: if you think Mercosur is so irrelevant that its statements should always be discounted, you are on the wrong website, aren't ya, genius? Before trying to pose as superior on account of your origins, think it through and see whether your message makes any sense.
26 TipsyThink (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 04:16 pm Report abuse
Israel has been a typical térrorist staté.

You must send your Mafia mémbers,Bomb experts,some agénts to assign to Israel ambassadorship instéad of normal diplomats whích that énoúgh for it.

Jews ,..punk peoplés
they shoúld be exiled from all over the America continént countries.
better than kílling all
27 Zhivago (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 04:26 pm Report abuse
26 TipsyThunk
Some good old-fashioned Argentine Anti-semitism, typical, see you in the funny pages!
25 Forget-me not
What is a “horsy dumb thing” ?, like I said irrelevant and insignificant, have another empanada and try and convince yourself you are important!
28 Forgetit86 (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 04:40 pm Report abuse
I feel dashed now that I've failed to get you to approve of me, how did you figure out I was longing for that the whole time?
29 stick up your junta (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 04:41 pm Report abuse
@19
Have I left you traumatized or something? Because after many months never reading your idiotic copy-and-paste again, you still carry something in your heart against me and need to lash out? Poor you.

You think a lot of yourself dont ya,why all the anger? I just pointed out your hypocrisy,why dont you put all your anger in writing the wrongs of your own country BRAZIL :-)
São Paulo murder spree leaves at least 140 dead in a fortnight

Fear grips Brazil's biggest city as undeclared war between First Capital Command gang and police leads to wave of violence

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/11/sao-paulo-murder-spree-brazil

140 in 2 weeks jees
30 Conqueror (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 04:41 pm Report abuse
@22 Hardly a an appropriate comment from a slave trader. Yes, Portugal wasn't so far into genocide as argieland. Rather than kill the people, they sold them! Not content with that there was large-scale importation of African slaves. More than 3 million. Notably, Brazil was the last country in the Western world to abolish slavery. 1550-1888. Did you know that you were a slaver? Yep, Brazil kept it up. 1822-1888. All down to Brazilians. Proud of that, are you? By the way, wherever practicable, Britain gave the territories of its Empire back to the indigenous people. And Portugal? Just like the argies, you are a thief. And you want to set yourself up as some sort of moral supremacist? Ever admitted your faults? How about your crimes? Not content with murder and dispossession, you turned people into animals. As little as 125 years ago. And who led the way in abolishing slavery and the slave trade? Britain. How come you were the last to feel the shame?
@25 mercosur is an illegitimate organisation. A cover for dictatorial, tyrannical, colonialist imperialism. It has interfered in the internal, domestic, constitutional affairs of a sovereign nation. I sincerely hope that it will be made to pay. I am certainly in contact with the British Government and the European Parliament on the subject.
@26 STFU, genocide.
31 TipsyThink (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 04:45 pm Report abuse
27
Who says Argentina is anti-semitist..many Jews live there..oné of them ís Foreign Minister.

I know thé Jews...Jews are shifty,sneaky,......unrelíable..
History says not me they exiled from Spain,Germany....why ?

No one can guárantee for their contrá déportation from America continént countries.
32 Forgetit86 (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 05:00 pm Report abuse
#29

Anger, me? It's you, the poor thing, who, even after months without seeing me, can't resist addressing me with your usual antics. It does seem you're holding a grudge.

You see, The Guardian story that you posted tells a story of a gang going on a rampage. The large majority of the people Brazil hates the guts of those thugs. Don't forget we're all empiriled by their actions. I have MANY, MANY relatives in São Paulo, and they are as vulnerable to the crimes of the PCC beasts as the people the group has already killed. The deeds of organized gangs do not have any legitimacy with the political class or the public -- it is therefore redundant to condemn them. The same isn't true about the massacres the IDF has been perpetrating in Gaza: the UN, most Western governments and media outlets refuse to come out to clearly condemn them as acts of unwarranted violence on innocent people; instead, the predominant narrative is that Israel is defending itself, that it isn't targeting innocent civilians even though it clearly is. That's why people should come out to point out Israel's immorality and call its war crimes for what they are -- because Israel is given a legitimacy it lacks.

Frankly, this -- the difference between the crimes of gangs and of professional armies -- is so obvious, I never imaged I had to explain this. Your stupidty never fails to disappoint me.
33 TipsyThink (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 05:04 pm Report abuse
15

why ?

Hamas is not pro Iran organization.
34 reality check (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 05:22 pm Report abuse
Forgetit86
“REFUTE!” refute what?

That was not an arguement, that was a statement of fact as I see it and as a lot of other people see it, let me state it again, just for your benefit. You seem to be struggling with the concept.

ISREAL WILL ONLY CEASE FIRE ONLY WHEN THE ROCKETS STOP FALLING !

There see? a statement, one refutes an arguement not a statement.
35 Zhivago (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 05:24 pm Report abuse
33 Tipsy
Do you have Down's Syndrome? Just curious.
36 TipsyThink (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 05:32 pm Report abuse
35

Post /31 ís not a commént júst a réality. !
37 reality check (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 05:41 pm Report abuse
@31
No the the Germans did not exile them, they Murdered them, millions of them!
Men, women and children.
The Germans also used the same words, “shifty, sneaky,” that's how it all started. That's how it always starts.
38 TipsyThink (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 05:56 pm Report abuse
37

No Jews killed in Germany ,this is(was) only dísinformation.
killed so many Jew soldiérs during the Russia wár.
according to you A.Einstein is killed in Germany not exiled ?

Why they are shifty,sneaky ...ask to Spaniards too !

If you ask me Why they are shifty ,sneaky
my résponse is that they cáuse up the Economic Income Distribution deterioration.
39 Zhivago (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 06:03 pm Report abuse
Tipsy 38
The Spaniards were murdering Jews long before the Germans, and besides nobody has cared about what the Spaniards think since the Battle of Trafalgar which, incidentally, they lost, so take another Prozac and go to bed. Google translate is not very good, it translates the words but very seldom the context and meaning.
Shifty and sneaky would also be a good description of an Argentine politician, wouldn't you Think?
40 reality check (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 06:10 pm Report abuse
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Web results. Definition of german death camps by TheFreeDictionary.
MR DENIER

Look this up.

aNazi concentration camps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediA

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps
41 TipsyThink (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 06:13 pm Report abuse
39

You are not clever

I use compact/plain English to discuss with you.
I know we can not discuss if i use Oxford English.

Thats true that the Argentine politicians are sneaky,shifty which indicates us how H.Timmerman became a Foreign Minister easily.
42 Zhivago (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 06:18 pm Report abuse
41 Tipsy
I am far more clever than a retard such as yourself, its just not nice to point out other people's shortcomings. You have been using Google Translate, don't lie!!! Now go get your shine box!!
43 TipsyThink (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 06:30 pm Report abuse
42

no, i do not use any translations.

if you meet a guy who uses íntérnet translation don't you wánt to díscuss wíth him(her) ?
44 Zhivago (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 06:53 pm Report abuse
43 Tipsy
You are a liar!
45 briton (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 09:14 pm Report abuse
Perhaps the mighty convincible indoctrinated controller [ CFK ]should be sent,

Seriously she loves to talk,
And listeners love to agree anything to get rid of her,
She could tell both nations to stop and have peace,
Or she will stay there until they do,

Hey come on, it’s the thought that counts,
And we thought about it,
Not much, but thought we did..
Still
Mr Blair is floating nearby.

.
46 Fido Dido (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 09:31 pm Report abuse
A (corrupt) government of nation that faces economic trouble will look for a war to divert it's problem from the masses. Ben Netanyahu the psychopath needs a war since he's facing re-election and is desperate to hide the nation's problem behind a war. Many imbeciles who continue to watch CNN (international), Fox or BBC won't know that info..to damn brainwashed and incompetent to think for themself.
47 Ayayay (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 09:41 pm Report abuse
abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/11/israels-netanyahu-takes-heat-after-obama-victory/

That said, Al Jazeera reports that this whole thing started after a Palestinian started shooting his gun. They're both crazy over there, and I'm glad Palestine has an advocate with Egypt now.
48 Forgetit86 (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 10:57 pm Report abuse
#47
Can you actually tell where on Al Jazeera did you see that? The Belén Fernandez article syndicated on Al Jazeera, which I posted above, makes precisely the opposite case: that the timeline of the escalation shows that it was Israel who broke the ceasefire on November 5th and again 3 days later.

#46
That's perceptive. Wasn't it also in election season that Israel's government launched Operation Cast Lead on December 2008? In most countries, politicians appeal to voters by improving employment rates and increasing income; in Israel, it is by increasing Arab body count. The Light Unto the Nations. As for Egypt, it has so far been a complete disappointment in regards to its Gazan policies.
49 Ayayay (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 11:29 pm Report abuse
@48 found.
I love Al Jazeera, btw.

www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/11/2012111874429224963.html?utm_content=automate&utm_campaign=Trial6&utm_source=NewSocialFlow&utm_term=plustweets&utm_medium=MasterAccount

Al Jazeera correspondent's Reddit discussion today: complex & not one-sided.

I am a full 100% supporter of a Palestine state. U.N. acceptance. A Jerusalem shared by all.

Remember that though Israel crappily grabbed land AFTER being invaded, (as a STUPID strategy to exchange it for a peace agreement) in the 6 days war, the by far LARGEST Palestine diaspora happened because Muslim countries seized their land in the 1940s and wouldn't accept Palestinians in.

http://t.co/c9zw3wz3
50 Idlehands (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 09:26 am Report abuse
Interesting to see posters rowing about something other than the Falklands.
51 TipsyThink (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 10:36 am Report abuse
British tool Al Jazeera....laugh ...

Even Mercopress is more free than it.
52 Idlehands (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 10:40 am Report abuse
This is the funniest article in relation to this entire story:

www.buenosairesherald.com/article/117160/egypt-calls-argentina-to-help-stop-israel-gaza-violence

I wonder if Morsi rang the manager of my local KFC for support too? Maybe he intended to and got mixed up?
53 cornelius (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 11:53 am Report abuse
Mercosur Chavez is issuing a stamen (Of course the idiot of Patriota follow the lefties murderers what about Syria’s condemnation?) this shows that Brazil is incapable of assuming the new roll of a mayor economy)
About the conflict since when the Mercosucio is a political organization (Paraguay stay out of the Mercosucio.)
The Mercosur countries have another agenda and are not improving the lives of their citizen trough free trade.
54 Zhivago (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 12:35 pm Report abuse
51 Tipsy
“Even Mercopress is more free than it.”
And you still claim you don't use Google translate?
Hang your head in shame.
55 wangito (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 01:04 pm Report abuse
Thank you, Mr. President.
I am the former commander of the British forces in Afghanistan. I served with NATO and the United Nations; commanded troops in Northern Ireland, Bosnia and Macedonia; and participated in the Gulf War. I spent considerable time in Iraq since the 2003 invasion, and worked on international terrorism for the UK Government’s Joint Intelligence Committee.

Mr. President, based on my knowledge and experience, I can say this: During Operation Cast Lead, the Israeli Defense Forces did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare.

Israel did so while facing an enemy that deliberately positioned its military capability behind the human shield of the civilian population.

Hamas, like Hizballah, are expert at driving the media agenda. Both will always have people ready to give interviews condemning Israeli forces for war crimes. They are adept at staging and distorting incidents.

The IDF faces a challenge that we British do not have to face to the same extent. It is the automatic, Pavlovian presumption by many in the international media, and international human rights groups, that the IDF are in the wrong, that they are abusing human rights.

The truth is that the IDF took extraordinary measures to give Gaza civilians notice of targeted areas, dropping over 2 million leaflets, and making over 100,000 phone calls. Many missions that could have taken out Hamas military capability were aborted to prevent civilian casualties. During the conflict, the IDF allowed huge amounts of humanitarian aid into Gaza. To deliver aid virtually into your enemy's hands is, to the military tactician, normally quite unthinkable. But the IDF took on those risks.

Despite all of this, of course innocent civilians were killed. War is chaos and full of mistakes. There have been mistakes by the British, American and other forces in Afghanistan and in Iraq, many of which can be put down to human error.
56 Leiard (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 01:04 pm Report abuse
NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen urges Israel to show “restraint” in its defense against attacks from Gaza. “Of course Israel has the right to self-defense, and attacks against Israel must end. But the international community would also expect Israel to show restraint”
57 wangito (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 01:41 pm Report abuse
#55 is a speech made by Col. Kemp, the commanding officer of the British forces in Aphganistan. So HE KNOWS what he is talking about.
But the real problem is that some posters i.e # 4, Forget it... Keeps forgetting that the problem did not start on November 8th. It started at San Remo 1922 where the league of Nations (Predecessor to the UN) decided on Palestine as a home to the Jewish people. Since then Israel faced a continues assaults against both Civilians and the IDF. The so called “the occupied territories” were taken back by Israel during the Six Days War, a war that was declared by 5 Arab nations that LOST that war. Hundreds of suicide human bomb were sent into Israel to target ONLY civilians. Gaza is only a symptom not the disease. What would YOU, the reader do if someone was openly calling for your elimination and destruction? Wouldn't you do all in your power to fight for your existance?
Look at what Arabs are doing to each other, (Syria for one), What would have they done to Israel if they only could. This is the reason for the “excessive” force Israel needs to use in order to avoide “Blood Shed” as the Syrian deligate to the UN promissed on 29 Nov 1949, when the UN Voted AGAIN That Palestine now torn into pieces, IS the Home of the jews.
Do Plestinian deserve to have a home? Absulutely YES. Where is Palestine then?
JORDAN IS PALESTINE, This was also decided in San Remo 1922.
Live and let live, seems we all forgot this including including you Forgetit86
58 TipsyThink (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 02:17 pm Report abuse
54

Evèrybody need to hàve Google Translàtíon to listen Al Jazeera.
59 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 04:30 pm Report abuse
There is nothing, absolutley nothing simple about the middle east, reasd the cultures of the three peoples of the middle east....the Turks, Perisans and Arabs...those are the three main players and they've been at it for 5,ooo years.
The only way there will start to be a peace in the middle east is when the rest of the middle east accepts the fact the Israel is there to stay.
60 mcarling (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 06:38 pm Report abuse
I assume most readers here have seen The Terminator movie starring Arnold Schwarzeneggar. Hamas is just about as committed to killing every Jew in Israel as the terminator was to killing Sarah Conner. For Israel to negotiate with Hamas would be about as sensible as Sarah Conner agreeing to “peace talks” with the terminator.

“That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.” -- Sgt. Kyle Reese explaining the terminator to Sarah Connor.
61 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 07:14 pm Report abuse
No idea what that analogy means. But the concept of not stopping until all are dead is like the Al Qaeda tenet for everyone in the world that is not a Muslim.
62 MurkyThink (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 08:17 pm Report abuse
The chiefly cognizant country is Britain in the world who knows Israel is terrorist.
63 Leiard (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 08:51 pm Report abuse
A few points on Hamas

The Hamas charter begins with the ominous warning that “Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it”

Hamad, a senior member of Hamas, stated in 2008 that “for the Palestinian people, death became an industry, at which women and children excel. Accordingly we created a human shield of women, children and elderly. We seek death as you [Israelis] desire life.”

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/19/hamas-leaves-israel-no-choice
64 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 09:02 pm Report abuse
I wonder is a people who were expelled from there land 3000 years ago have the rightful claim to retake it? At this point it does not matter as Israel is a state that is not going away. One thing is certain, the Middle East and Africa have been one fuck hole mess for quite some time. There must be some common thread to all the unreat there............ah yes....religion!
65 wangito (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 09:10 pm Report abuse
An addition to your user name...
Not only murkyThink but Shallowthink or no thinking at all.
Phrases like yours show total ignorance and understanding of the problem. And for your information, Palestine including Jordan were given to the Jews under the Balfour declaration by the British Government in 1922, and again by the UN security council in 1947.
66 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 09:56 pm Report abuse
“Palestine including Jordan were given to the Jews under the Balfour declaration by the British Government in 1922, and again by the UN security council in 1947.”

These two actions in itself are a major part of the problem. Palestine was a country until these actions. Though I thought Belfour's letter was 1917. Palestinians lost their homeland and I really can't blame them for not being too happy about. Apparently if you jsut a buch of nomads, what does it matter is your country is taken from you?
Whatever happens, Israel is not leaving and peace will never be acheve without a nation for the Palestians.
67 Elena (#) Nov 20th, 2012 - 05:18 am Report abuse
66 Captain Poppy

Completely agree, even when both Palestina and Israel have been hostil at each other at one point or another, the UN can´t argue being fair or neutral to any of them while Palestina isn´t allowed their own voice at UN as a recognized nation with a right to international representation. The UN owns Palestines at least that given their part in the birth of this.

This conflict will never cease just blaming one or another supported by the interests of their respective allies, in fact this just makes their conflict worse.

Israel may have historical rights to part of the actual Palestine territory, but I dont think is fair to blame modern Palestines of something the Romans or the Nazis did. Modern Palestines are to blame from their part in this conflict, but not of something that was beyond their control and happened 60 or even thousand years ago IMO.
68 mcarling (#) Nov 20th, 2012 - 06:11 am Report abuse
#65: In 1947, the UNSC was not involved. In 1947, the UNGA _proposed_ yet another partitioning of the Land of Israel (80% had already been illegally given by the British to the Hashemites in 1921-22). The UNGA had no authority to divide the remaining part of the Land of Israel and so mere made a proposal. The Jews were willing to accept the proposal; the Arabs refused. So Israel declared independence the day before the expiration of the Mandate on _all_ of the 20% of the Land of Israel that had not been given to the Hashemites in violation of British and international principles of trusteeship.
69 cornelius (#) Nov 25th, 2012 - 02:36 am Report abuse
since when the Mercosucio is invoved in SOUTH AMERICA INTERNAL AFAIRS
70 wangito (#) Nov 25th, 2012 - 04:16 pm Report abuse
@68, Sorry for the typographical error. It was in fact as you say the UNGA

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