Falklands’ referendum, a “democratic and incontestable” answer to Argentina’s ambitions
The Falkland Islands elected government has confirmed the dates and final wording of the referendum on the political status of the Islands, based on their right to self determination and to counter Argentina’s repeated calls for negotiations over sovereignty.
“The result will demonstrate in a clear, democratic and incontestable way how the people of the Falkland Islands wish to live their lives”, says the release which anticipates the presence of “a credible, international and independent observer mission to observe the referendum in order to clearly demonstrate that it has been held freely and fairly”.
Following a two-week public consultation, and having taken outside expert advice on the specific wording to be asked in the Referendum, the Falklands’ Executive Council have approved the final wording of the question, which, along with an explanatory preamble, reads as follows:
“The current political status of the Falkland Islands is that they are an Overseas Territory of the United Kingdom. The Islands are internally self-governing, with the United Kingdom being responsible for matters including defence and foreign affairs. Under the Falkland Islands Constitution the people of the Falkland Islands have the right to self-determination, which they can exercise at any time. Given that Argentina is calling for negotiations over the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands, this referendum is being undertaken to consult the people regarding their views on the political status of the Falkland Islands. Should the majority of votes cast be against the current status, the Falkland Islands Government will undertake necessary consultation and preparatory work in order to conduct a further referendum on alternative options.
Do you wish the Falkland Islands to retain their current political status as an Overseas Territory of the United Kingdom?
YES or NO”
The Executive Council has also agreed that the Referendum would be held over two days, 10-11 March, giving everyone the maximum opportunity to exercise their right to vote.
The result will demonstrate in a clear, democratic and incontestable way how the people of the Falkland Islands wish to live their lives. To that end, the Falkland Islands Government has consulted widely to identify a credible, international and independent observer mission to observe the referendum in order to clearly demonstrate that it has been held freely and fairly.
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YES or NO”
OR
Would you like to be ethnically cleansed by a mad despotic state who has invaded you in your recent history. Would you like to be thrown alive from aeroplanes and to be governed by a pschotic harridan with a Botox fetish.
What do you THINK?
I'm pretty sure the UN will have to accept that this referendum has taken place, because of their clause about 'free association' with another state. The C24 will carry on ignoring the wishes of any of the islanders though without actually having visited them.
I'm pretty sure that Brazil and Uruguay will claim it's an illegal referendum because the falklands is an implanted population, without providing a jot of evidence to say why they think it's an implanted population, because quite frankly they don't know. Then they'll sign some papers about it.
The Argies will still carry on demanding negotiations, then demanding it's undeniably theirs, then saying they just want to chat, then saying the falklanders should all be genocided, and this time the UK will have a definite answer to throw back at them.
Not much will change though.
Thieves will occupy the yard of your house and ask themselves if they want to keep the loot instead of depend on the authority of the owner of the house.
It would be like if Argentines they occupy and expel authorities Man island and then ask themselves if they want to remain Argentines having nothing to do with the authority of London.
Of course the “british” argue that were not Argentines at the time of theft, but that is against the historical evidence.
Here's a real “Malvina” Argentine born in Puerto Soledad long before the very few remaining Britons who claim a lineage “ancient” in the Malvinas Argentines Islands.
A valid test that were our for right own long before, so that a search in these conditions, is invalidated.
ar.noticias.yahoo.com/la-primera-malvina-argentina.html
You'd really think they would be more concerned in a 7.6/1 peso or the bare shelves at the grocery stores. Rgs are very strange creatures.
You have never been the owner of the house.
@4 The British are and always have been an Atlantic nation, there are many islands representing such britishness all over the atlantic from bermuda all the way down the atlantic ridge and then some at the bottom. It's you who seems to struggle with the idea of unity through similar island nation experiences.
The Atlantic is not your yard, we were in it a long time before you were ever conceived of in South America by killing all your brown folk.
We have the objective history to back up our claims, and when you started the War of Aggression in 1982 against the demands of the UN, you lost any claim you have to the islands under international law.
The falklands really are a case of 'finders keepers, losers weepers' and boy oh boy do you losers weep.
It really is like dabating with religious fundamentalists, the malvinas lie is implanted in their heads like jesus in a born-again christian.
They are truly hopless cases in their millions.
Like the implanted population of Patagonia, with a genuine displaced population perhaps?
Or
The implanted population of the entire Americas?
The big difference is the Falklands had no indigenous population, so the current inhabitants have MORE right to their land..as you do to yours.
And because your piss weak country full of cowards were unable to bully them in 1982, you come on here everyday crying about it. boo hoo give me Las Malvinas...boo hoo...nasty much more more powerful, decent, humane and respected country....boo hoo...I'm a pathetic Argie with a tiny penis!!
Yet another unattributed piece of drivel.
Don't you lot understand that picking this crap out of a paper and claiming it as the truth does nothing other than reinforce the view that you are all liars?
You LOST the islands in 1982. We kicked your arses back to the mainland.
What we SHOULD have done was to treat BsAs the way you lot treated Stanley and other areas.
But don’t worry, we will next time if TMBOA is stupid enough to try again.
So the British are occupying the garden illegally of a house which has residing in the legitimate Argentines.
Yes, just a few problems with that.
1 The Falklands were a British territory before Argentina existed.
2 So the British took up residence in the garden before the current occupants lived in the house.
3 The current occupants of the house murdered the original owner of the house in order that they could live in the said house, when the British were already living happily and peacefully in the garden and didn't murder anyone.
You Argentines are complete dicks!
More argentine bullsh*t Please!!, your flapping and panic is very re-assuring and highly amusing :)))) keep it coming.....
SELF-DETERMINATION.....Has already won, Buen Dia! :))))
YES
I would welcome their participation but I doubt they'll try it. Like you said, they'd have to admit that our government exists.
YES
Islanders will only want to become argentine when it suits them and not when some gormless president and her follows demand.
With yet more UN recognition in its cap, the falklands will become untouchable (as it always will be).
Good luck Islanders!
So he is one of those ''Thieves! Pirates!'' you and your ilk keep posting about? He must be, unless he is a descendent of the indigenous tribes.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquest_of_the_Desert
By the way, the Falkland Islands belong to the Falkland Islanders. Their British Overseas Territory status is there because those people whose islands they are, wish to have a connection with the UK. They might have liked to have had closer ties to Argentina instead. However, 1982 and CFK's attitude towards the Islanders have rather spoiled that.
Too right, anything else just isn't cricket.
www.infobae.com/notas/691998-OGlobo-La-Casa-Rosada-le-vende-al-pueblo-una-imagen-distorsionada.html
'The kelpers go to the polls in a referendum illegitimate'
www.diariopopular.com.ar/notas/143991-los-kelpers-van-las-urnas-un-referendum-ilegitimo
'Malvinas: kelpers make its referendum on 11 and 12 March'
www.clarin.com/malvinas/Malvinas-kelpers-referendum_0_849515234.html
We live in a very uncertain world,
Walk before you run, as there are bullies, conmen , violent and selfish people out their that would sell you down the drain,
I say, as long as you have an irritant bully next door,
Stay with the brits.
Your island, your choice…..
.
SELF-DETERMINATION! Tastes good!
Steve thanks for the link. Interesting article on the legitimacy of the referendum. Not suprisingly full of error and bias.
Two points in case, the Referendum is being held at the instigation of David CAMERON and the British. False, the Referendum is the Islanders answer to Argentinas UN tactics.
The UN will not recognise the result of the Referendum because the population are implanted colonists. False again, Ban Ki Moon, himself has come out and stated that the Right to Self Determination exists for all people.
Total piece of journalistic propoganda crap!
Ah. It's about Lebensraum. You never change.
Fascist yesterday, Fascists today, and I see no need to take a chance that you won't still be a fascist tomorrow.
Oh ye, I read quite a few of the comments, it gives you a flavour of the RG public
@41 slattzzz
You mean me? if you do... my answer = Hell no you cheeky tw*t. As I have pointed out previously I believe DOD is Marcos they write in the same way, and are often the first to post here. What makes you think that?
DO NOT LET THE BRITS CONTAMINATE OUR CLEAN AND HAPPY SOUTH WITH THE NUCLEAR TOYS MADE BY NEVER WIN ONE GAME MEN
THEN, YOU BELIEVE THAT LANCE AMSTRONG NEVER TOOK DRUGS!!
( Everyone Knows Lance is from the UK and CAMERON'S BIOLOGICAL SON)
Damn that's a difficult choice!
or it would be, if you were a brain dead, halfwitted, deluded moron!
Speaking of Senor BETTS, wonder how he's getting on?
THAT IS WHY YOU NEED WEAPONS TO IMPOSE TRAUMATIC LIFE
AS A SERVANT
Want want want, me me me. Thank the br lord/yahwey/brahma/ganesha they are british, people and their rights are truly respected. Life is cheap in South America. :-(
A handful of Brits living in Malvinas Argentinas need two days to answer a simple question. Are they English or dumb? :-)
PS Britain are favourites to teach Brazilian officers in submarine tactics at Faslane and the four type 22's batch 3's are earmarked for ...............................you got it Brazil to complement the four they have already bought..................fuck off losers. NO ONE LIKES YOU!!!!! Everyone pays you lip service and then laughs at you, you must be really proud of CFK as she drags you closer to the abyss. ENJOY!!!!!
@48 No they need two days to tell you to fuck off whereas it's taken you a hundred years to decide you MIGHT own the FALKLANDS ISLANDS via some cheap propoganda but then again you are a bit slow aren't you, still shit happens dipshit, have a nice wet dream it will probably involve Sussie and some drugs I dare say.
In fact team GB were by far the most successful nation in the Olympics, per capita, which goes to show how far superior a nation we are, but rather modest as we don't boast, and talk bullsiht like you do.
Also your wine tastes of piss and is full of chemicals, and I never buy it, neither do my colleagues at work because we all hate you nasty people.
The only person who thinks Argentina is great, are brain washed Argentinians, and nobody else. It's cheap to live there because it is cheap and nasty.
Argentine facts, or truthful facts,
Now who would you rather believe?
1, a country that claims things before it was born,
Or
2, a country that has legally settled their for over 200 years,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
A woman who wants to steal what she has never ruled or owned,
Or
A people that have worked very hard on their land for over 9 generations.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
A child who throws her toys out of the pram and cries,
Or
The islanders, who just want to live in peace and harmony.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Historical facts or CFK lies,
We know who we would believe,
What say you ..
[ British you know its all that matters ]
I'm seriously offended, in the past I have had 'Anbar' call me CFK's sock puppet for linking FI related articles, but to accuse me of being DOD is worse, I want an apology!
Can I ask your age and location?
Have you ever thought of a career in comedy? I was in stitches reading those three posts of yours!
If on the other hand, you really believe that what you posted, may I suggest you book a taxi to a place called ''reality''.
news to me squire.
DOD is CFKs sockpuppet... and showing a thankful absence since being well and truly outed.
AHAHAHHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Who cares about the opinion of squatters and PIRATES....What a laugh these sheeps....
Shame on you Argentina ... you act like a 3rd world nation but you are educated
I thought I finally had to add something after nobody seemed to comment on the great link that #4 Malvinero put up.
For any that didn’t bother looking, it clearly indicated that proto-Argentina/Vernet knew that the claims via Spanish inheritance and Jewett’s landing lacked any substance.
Also, the diary entry (when viewed alongside the British-issued papers for Vernet and his workers to live on the islands, and his correspondence with the UK post-1833) show Vernet to be a deceitful man, and if not for that deceit clearly he would have been removed from the Falklands as Swiftly as the Garrison in 1833.
Someone needs to get a copy of this diary before they realise this strengthens the Falklander’s case.
falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/falklands-war-the-first-400-years-pdf.pdf
There is no historical evidence that Louis Vernet ever became a citizen of las Provincias Unidas, Furthermore, there is much doubt about his place of birth - he could't have been a German because in the late eighteenth and early eighteenth centuries what is today Germany then consisted of several principalities and city states. There is some evidence that he was from Alsace-Lorraine or even from France itself.
Get your facts right!
The Yahoo article isn't the half of it.
At the C24 in June 2012, with CFK leading in a person an Argentine delegation of 90+ ministers, provincial governors. mayors, trade union leaders, etc, grandson Marcello Luis Vernet read copiously from the diary, and even quoted in written testimony the passage wherein Vernet decides to claim the Falklands for Argentina in 1829.
Not one of the ninety seems to have noticed, and Marcello's highly public undermining of the whole basis of the Argentine sovereignity claim is now firmly lodged in the records of the C24, and indeed freely available on the web site of the Argentine ambassador to the UN.
www.embajadaabierta.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/vernet.pdf
The malvinistas on here will spontainiously combust if they read any of these documented truths!!
WOOOOOMMMPH!!!!
www.falklandislands.com/?jssCart=cc473263efad634bc19085c196a40ed2
en.mercopress.com/2011/10/07/half-a-million-families-live-in-buenos-aires-slums-and-keep-expanding-vertically-and-horizontally
Let me refresh your memory, Just found the article in which you posted...
' Steve-32 is the latest “new” sock-puppet from our friends in Argentina.... using the “find a link on the Internet, regardless of authenticity or gravitas, and think that constitutes proof of something” mode of puppetry.'
en.mercopress.com/2012/12/04/falklands-lawmakers-at-bot-meeting-with-uk-ministers-in-london#comment194681
My reply is on the same link @47
www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/9808484/Falklands-cruise-row-a-lesson-in-Argentinas-English-heritage.html
La Kretina and los malvinistas should read this - thoroughly!
Seriously Marcos, give up the charade it's over mate. Also as you won't be familiar with the word 'charade', as it's not commonly used in Argentina, check the link below ;)
oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/charade?q=charade
For everyone else, a couple of interesting links...
'The mysterious presidential aircraft - Renting a jet owned by a British company renewed the Republican debate on transparency and improper use of government property'
www.lanacion.com.ar/1547155-la-misteriosa-aeronave-presidencial
'Come feasible a win against the “vultures”'
www.lanacion.com.ar/1547081-ven-factible-un-triunfo-ante-los-buitres
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/rosyln-fuller/the-falklands-british-government-hides-behind-engineered-neutrality_b_2409301.html
Please commander, could we have some crumbs? I promise we'll become suberviant and shut our mouthes if you would only give us some crumbs.
Commander my arse. The first thing you've got to do to be a good commander is command respect. There's an old saying: You can't please all the people all the time. The great naval commander royal navy retired couldn't please anybody (Argie, Brit or Falkland Islander) ANY of the time. At least the Malvinistas have ditched the pitch now; it never worked and I almost agonised for them for how long they tried to keep it up.
Argentina systematically conducts a campaign of political & economic persecution against the regional ethnic minority of the Falkland Islanders who are subject to repression of their political & economic development
Argentine authorities deliberately incite hatred against the Islanders labeling them implants, squatters, sheep-farmers, kelpers & pirates in deliberate targeted acts to dehumanize them as a collective group in a calculated effort to secure their regional ostracism through repression of transport & trade links & normal relations. The Argentine authorities deliberately scapegoat the Falkland Islander home & abroad to justify their hostile acts against them using the big lie propaganda technique & rhetoric of past dictatorships to further their political goals
The Argentine justification for doing this appears to be based on a fallacious argument that somehow the people living in the non-self-governing territory of the Falkland Islands today must be punished for actions of the British government to assert its sovereignty in the Falklands when it was first challenged by the government of Buenos Aires in 1829
It appears the Argentine government's political argument against the present-day Islanders rights is based on medieval concept in law of 'corruption of blood” which warrants extra-judicial punishment by forfeiture of their human rights under international law & property rights through illegal expropriation & escheatment to the Argentine state by their forced deportation to Britain
Argentine should ends its extra-judicial persecution of the current population the Islands & confine itself to pursuing its claim legally at the UN ICJ
60 million postal votes, mate!
@61 Who cares about the opinion of squatters and pirates?
You do.
Vernet the pirate is well documented, and the #4 link you posted shows him as a squatter too. Any document issued to him by the British that allowed him to reside on the Falklands would have been void had he been honest about his intentions with the British.
@66 Thanks for that link. I had heard this before, but without finding any evidence I had discounted it. The piece you link is clearly stonger than Malvineros link in showing Argentine acceptance of this diary.
The other week a friend was guide to a coachload of Arg tourists out to the Darwin Cemetery- on the way back they relaxed and talked - they were all anti Christina - he said surely some voted for her as she won with 54%? - They told me- “ah yes but you do not understand how elections are run and how votes are are counted in our country- it is different!!”
Says it all really.
Britain will not be able to support the Falklands indefinitely. Mrs Thatcher, the milk snatcher, let down her kith and kin in Rhodesia and a previous government saw to the dissolution of the Central African Federation. So I would say to the Falklanders: “Put notyour trust in princes nor in the son of man.....”.
You are absolutely right of course; nothing lasts forever. I'd like to think that both the UK and the Falklands will agree on moving towards cutting the umbilocal cord in a balanced way. Like a couple that just start to grow apart. No doubt the UK won't always be able to justify the expense but no doubt we'll one day be able to afford it ourselves. I doubt there'll be any radical or sudden cutting of the status quo. It will just evolve.
One thing that is absolutely constant in our world is change. One day Argentina may become a stable and mature nation. One day.
By your own logic - argentina's days are also numbered.
Am I right?
If in generations to come the people of the Falkland Islands start to grow closer to the peope of Argentina; so be it. What we will not stand for is being forced into something against our own free will.
Argentina's future is no more assured than any other nations. In fact many would argue that it is far less assured. It's not a very old country and look at the state it is currently in. In Argentina career is more a verb than a noun.
Thanks. Don't let it happen again ;)
Just waiting for yours now Anbar...
Re: Football, even Spanish wikipedia says “A finales de la Edad Media y siglos posteriores se desarrollaron en las Islas Británicas y zonas aledañas distintos juegos de equipo, a los cuales se los conocía como códigos de fútbol”.
Try a little research before you make a fool of yourself.
I forgot to say my #86 post was at #84Oz.
But I agree with what you say
www.diariopopular.com.ar/notas/144074-cristina-vietnam-solamente-la-paz-se-puede-crecer
http://wpc.4d27.edgecastcdn.net/004D27/Events/MissUniverse2012NationalCostumePart2/Great%20Britain.jpg
vs
THIS homage to Queen Malificent.
http://wpc.4d27.edgecastcdn.net/004D27/Events/MissUniverse2012NationalCostumePart2/Argentina.jpg
then that's the darkest hour for Argentina -- and the strangest moment in semi-live television since Jerry Lewis gave the telethon challenge to “all the drug dealers out there.”
(full catty goodness here: www.tomandlorenzo.com/2012/12/miss-universe-national-costume-2012-part-3.html . And yes, bee-hatches, there is a part one and part two and also one for a previous year)
If Argentina wants to claim their right to those islands, then Paraguay should be returned the lands conquered during the Triple Alliance War. But that will never happen. And note how Paraguay accepts it got the shit kicked out of it and makes no claim to its lost territory. When you lose, well you don't get to come out ahead.
So to sum it all up, if Argentina wants to claim it, go and invade again. Or else they need to shut the hell up and get on with destroying their country's economy already
Agreed.
It's like a different world in Argentina compared to the UK, the press, schools and Govt all make it up to suit themselves. The whole country has not yet accepted they lost the war.
I think that puts it rather well.
I think the Argentines took a lesson from your Chaco War with Bolivia. Bolivia claimed the whole of the Chaco and some of the lily lvered politicos were prepared to cede it to them. The man of the hour Estigarria appeared and though the Paraguayan army was ill equiped and suffered many privations by sheer guts they knocked the shit out of the Bolivians. I dont think that lesson was lost on the Argentinos
Viva Paraguay
'Mrs. Thatcher, the milk snatcher'.
FFS get over it will you? You are starting to be as obsessive with this at the Prat-Junta is 'with a nuclear bla, bla, bla - 100% made in AG.
Were you a child when she took the milk of you or a parent who could not afford a small bottle of milk?
What about the woman castrating the communist rabble within the so called 'unions' or were you one of those as well?
If only we had a similar PM now the country would not be in the fucking mess it is now, or did you vote Lib-Dem as well?
AHAHAAHa Who cares about the brits pirates opinion..uk is FINISHED,and the future is MALVINAS ARGENTINAS.....AHAHAHAHAHAJust accept it...uk is a GONNER in MALVINAS!
Re Germany - I should have said “because in the late eighteenth and early NINETEENTH centuries what is today Germany then consisted of several principalities and city states.”
A further comment about Louis Vernet - after his business failed in the Falkland Islands during the 1840s he travelled to London and made several efforts to persuade the British Government to cover his losses alleging that as he had set up his business based on the approval and support that he received from the British Consul in Buenos Aires then Britain should pay him some sort of indemnity. He did, in fact, receive some sort of compensation but it was derisory.
'Falklands’ referendum, a “democratic and incontestable” answer to Argentina’s ambitions'
Who agrees it would read better...
'Falklands’ referendum, a “democratic and incontestable” answer to Argentina’s colonial ambitions'?
@95 BAMF Paraguay
Damn right, too much emphasis is put on the history of the islands, but the FI have a bright future as a BOT then an possibly an independent nation if they so choose.
Anyway another link I plucked from the RG realm of fantasy...
'Announce controversial referendum question for the Falklands'
www.prensa-latina.cu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&idioma=1&id=1026961&Itemid=1
Do you suffer from a stutter boy? Why do you always keep saying “AHAHAHAH”?
There are speech therapy classes for that type of impediment.
Why don't you accept the fact that you are a cock?
axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_64333.shtml
www.fihplc.com/index.php?section=0
What is “VRITISH”? Before posting on this English speaking forum you must be made to realise that your post in @106 is a rant in an alien tongue - maybe you are from Mars?
And as far as your link is concerned the possibility of Britain using nuclear arms against Argentina is “nil”. No British invasion of Argentina is contemplated - however, Britain reserves its right to strengthen its defences against an invasion of the Falkland Islands by Argentina, After all, Argentine has done it before - in 1982.
“Vritish slaves of fakland holding firm have no say in Argentina, they all have to go home one way or another,or else I will have to claim my gold mine in San Juan illegally occupied by barrick gold, end the theft of Argentine resources, pari pasuu for all or justice for none, white people think they can tell others what to do but I say execute all outside terrorists thefting resources from your land.”
ALEX VARGAS,
- thanks for the view of whatever alternate reality you live in.
- thanks too, for showing you are a RACIST.
It's quite a while since I read one of your posts because they are so full of crap but let's have a look at this post more closely.
“Vritish slaves of fakland holding firm have no say in Argentina,”
There are no slaves in the Falklands. Everyone is here of their own free will and everyone who works gets paid reasonable wages commensurate with their skills.
We don't want any say in Argentina so that's fine by us.
“they all have to go home one way or another,”
I agree. I usually drive, sometimes ride by push bike or, if I've had a few, I walk.
“or else I will have to claim my gold mine in San Juan illegally occupied by barrick gold,”
Go right ahead.
“end the theft of Argentine resources,”
That sounds like an internal Argentine issue. I suggest you speak to CFK (actually that may be a conflict of interest for her).
“pari pasuu for all or justice for none,”
Again, that's an internal Argentine issue but I agree. Your government should have to pay everyone like te courts have ruled.
“white people think they can tell others what to do but I say execute all outside terrorists thefting resources from your land.”
Black and white people think they can tell others what to do. Especially if they are leaders or managers. What's your point? A racist one? Be careful, Argentina is full of white people. Thnaks for your advice. If anyone tries to theft our resources we'll consider your advice when we convict them.
“Islands Malvinas Argentina is not negotiable,”
That's fine, we don't want your Islands Malvinas. The Falkland Islands sovereignty isn't negotiable either. How many people live on your Islands Malvinas? We have about 3,000 living on the Falkland Islands.
“we support a nuclear defence program 100% made Argentina to end the illegal occupation and theft by vritish illegal aliens.”
Who is we?
“Long live CFK down with the nuclear armed terrorist and thieves from UK.”
Why would CFK want to live down with the nuclear armed terrorists and thieves from the UK?
That's right. Britain has no intention of taking on argentina with nukes. Defence is the only action we intend.
@106 ph
With fools like you and CFK driving you to the brink, we don't need nukes we just need you boneheads to carry on in the same half-assed manner.
I do wonder, what with PH, you are not first, Nostril and Malvinero1 all making me laugh recently with their posts. :D Keep drinking the Kool aid PH et al. :D
In Uruguay and I suppose AG, when speaking Spanish the A is an E, E is an A, i is an 'ee', V is a B, the B is a B, and LL is pronounced SSHH and Y is also a SSHH.
So Devoto the supermercado (supermarket) is usually pronounced 'Deboto' though some visitors use the v as a v.
Playa (the beach) is plasshha, llamar (to call) sshhamar, etc.
So Vritish is really British. Vargas of course, is Bargas when pronounced.
Anything inconveniently critical, threatens to shatter that delusion and is a threat.
He seems to be disconnected from the society around him. Argentina, the ideal, but forever unattainable, is his beacon.
Sad, really. We should all feel sorry for ALEX VARGAS.
No, not really.
Applying the principle of Territorial Integrity to the Question of the Falkland Islands, would refer to the succession of the Falklands Islands & its effect on British territorial integrity and British national unity
Since the British first colonised Port Egmont in 1765, asserted their sovereignty rights through diplomatic protest at the critical date of 1829 when the sovereignty dispute first arose & since 1833 have exercised de facto sovereignty over the Falkland Islands for more than 180 years, received acquiesence from both Argentina in 1850 & Spain in 1865 & also defended the territory from Argentine invasion in 1982 and retained sovereignty under the international principle of uti possidetis having been victorious at the end of the conflict it is easy to see the British could be materially affected by the self-determination of the population and independence of the Falkland Islands
The population has no connection to Argentina and the Falkland Islands territory has never been under sole Argentine sovereignty, whilst the lands under the control of the Buenos Aires revolutionary government did not extend further than the 37th parallel south some 900 nautical miles north of the Falkland Islands
In these circumstances, it is not clear how the modern state of Argentina can possibly claim & prove any form of disruption to either its national unity or territorial integrity at the UN International Court of Justice
Until Argentina proves or disproves its claim at the UN ICJ, there is no legal impediment for the population who live on the listed non-self-governing territory of the Falkland Islands to continue with self-determination
Argentina terminated the negotiations under UN resolution 2065, but is free to accept FIG's UN C24 offer to enter talks in June 2012
Don't worry Joe, The more things change.....the more they stay the same.
“It's quite a while since I read one of your posts because they are so full of crap”
Nuff said........ NEXT!!!
They are immature to the fact, that they will never be great, never have an empire,
And returned ,,
Never have anyone to back them up,
They envy the British ,the charm , Swarve , sophistication , brilliance , loyalty , trusted friend ,
Just about everything really,
But hey,
If ya shut for a decade and learnt to grow up, stop threatening , abusing , intimidating , harassing ,
And act like adults instead of jerking’s,
You might, just might get something we have had for centuries,
[Respect]
Still,
Ya love ta talk, do ya not..
.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCBOKkQh4Lg&list=PLVsnqjOl38r8u8td01CEbCZQ-lMFbJHK6
abcnews.go.com/Blotter/algeria-terrorists-trade-us-hostages-blind-sheikh/story?id=18247667
#115 are you still thinking about dicks ? Lol! Give it up homo.
axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_64333.shtml
www.fihplc.com/index.php?section=0
#116 if calling yourself after a vritish firm is no problem I doubt it matters how you spell it when it can change any time, I figure we change it for you and save you the trouble of imposing your views.
www.fihplc.com/index.php?section=0
#117 I live in America and there is nothing you or any european can do about it, simple, get used to it, I don't even know what canuda is, is it another facist racist culture murderers of natives and ?
#118 I still don't like homos, seems you still have problems dealing with rejection, trust me I am not rejecting you, I just don't like homos, give it, is Alex Vargas still ignoring you? If you had a life mr Vargas existence wouldn't bother you at all. Learn from me I support a nuclear defence program 100% made in Argentina, not because of the illegal vritish occupation, but more do to security and the rights to self determination. Now about you go to a vritish news links to comment and stop trying to be Argentine. Posting in Argentine news links doesn't make you a malvinero and never will.
Or in the case of Quebracho, La Cámpora, malvinistas and other odd groups from Argentina we are, of course, just “pirates”!
Under its UN treaty obligations, the UK must implement Article 73 requirement in the listed non-self-governing territories under its administration, including the case of the Falkland Islands, to develop self-government, to take due account of the political aspirations of the peoples, & to assist them in the progressive development of their free political institutions, according to the particular circumstances of each territory
The fact is under the UN treaty regarding the Pacific Settlement of Disputes, Article 36 clearly states that legal disputes should as a general rule be referred by the parties to the International Court of Justice in accordance with the provisions of the Statute of the Court . All UN member states agree to Article 103 that in the event of a conflict between the obligations of the Members of the United Nations under the present Charter & their obligations under any other international agreement, their obligations under the present Charter shall prevail
Thus Argentina can obtain either an advisory or binding judgement on the Question of Falkland Islands regarding retroactive application of the UN Treaty to the historical Sovereignty dispute or its contemporary political aim to deny the population of the Falklands self-determination & seek their forced deportation
Once upon a time in the Kingdom of Heaven, God went missing for six days. Eventually, Michael the archangel found him, resting on the seventh day.
He inquired of God, “Where have you been?”
God sighed a deep sigh of satisfaction and proudly pointed downwards through the clouds, “Look Michael, look what I've made.”
Archangel Michael looked puzzled and said, “What is it?”
“It's a planet,” replied God, “and I've put LIFE on it. I'm going to call it Earth and it's going to be a place of great balance.”
“Balance?” inquired Michael, still confused.
God explained, pointing to different parts of Earth, “For example, Northern Europe will be a place of great opportunity and wealth while Southern Europe is going to be poor; the Middle East over there will be a hot spot. Over there I've placed a continent of white people and over there is a continent of black people,”
God continued, pointing to different countries. “This one will be extremely hot and arid while this one will be very cold and covered in ice.”
The Archangel, impressed by Gods work, then pointed to a small group of Islands in one corner and asked, “What's that one?”
“Ah,” said God. “That's The Falkland Islands, the most glorious place on Earth. There are beautiful mountains, lakes, rivers, streams and an exquisite coastline. The people from The Falkland’s are going to be modest, intelligent and humorous and they're going to be found travelling the world. They'll be extremely sociable, hard working and high achieving, and they will be known throughout the world as diplomats and carriers of peace”.
Michael gasped in wonder and admiration but then proclaimed; ”What about balance, God? You said there will be BALANCE!“
God replied wisely. ”Wait until you see the loud-mouth Wankers I'm putting next door to them in Argentina....”
Good point, well made
“porteños” you say? I'll file that one under “Useful to know”
Thanks
@125 a good assessment Domingo, but how is the average argentine going to learn about all this? They all think that there are 40 resolutions that are being ignored, and that the C24 is the special committee for lebensraum.
“#117 I live in America and there is nothing you or any european can do about it, simple, get used to it, I don't even know what canuda is, is it another facist racist culture murderers of natives and ?
ALEX VARGAS - unlike you, we are not stupid. We understand what we write about and post. We understand the difference between history and propaganda. We don't blindly repeat things we don't understand or nonsensical propaganda.
Further, we do not forget from one day to the next what we have posted. You change your stories as needed, to duck responsibility, questions, or judgements of your true character or motives.
You have boasted many times that you live in Canada, now you cryptically say you live in 'America', what's that? Do you mean the continent of North America, in a region governed by a state called Canada??
Oh, you say you don't know anything about ”Canuda“???
”I don't even know what canuda is, is it another facist racist culture murderers of natives and ?“
Well if you are Argentinian and ”love CFK 140%“ as you say, you would certainly be aware that YOU are a member of a ”fascist racist culture murderers of natives and ?” currently ongoing, today.
Since you live in Canada, you would also recognise that it is certainly NOT a fascist or racist state ( witness the rich multiculturalism). The Aboriginal people's question is openly debated by government and media and hundreds of millions of $$$ 's allotted to native groups each year for their own discretionary spending, as well as tax breaks, free education, etc etc.
Argentina allows her natives to die of Dengue or police murder them, outright.
We know that “Pirat-Hunter” is really ALEX VARGAS from Canada, you used to post the same hatred under your real name - moron!!
www.ambito.com/noticia.asp?id=672129
Surely if it's against any kind of principle laid out in the UN, they should immediately go to the ICJ, as Domingo was suggesting, and get a ruling about this before the event.
It seems that Argentine politicians seem to state opinions as fact without understanding that they just look pig ignorant, to everyone bar your typical argentine.
VARGAS is all over the Internet - on any wacko conspiracy or hate site dedicated to slagging the West , or many chat rooms for the “Hated, Deluded, and imagined Dispossessed”.
ALEX VARGAS features prominently. I have stumbled across him several times - and no more coherent there , either!
I didn't realise how stupid Boudou was, I can't wait see what falklandsnews.wordpress.com makes of what he has said, it's absolutely ridiculous. Anyway he is a proven liar and possibly more corrupt than CFK...
'Corruption allegations continue to dog Amado Boudou, Ms Fernández’s vice-president, who is being investigated on charges of influence peddling, money laundering and illicit enrichment.'
www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b8c8060a-504e-11e2-9b66-00144feab49a.html#axzz2ISaqmJ9w
I'm guessing they would.
Malvian Son Argentina. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Heard it all before!
Now, why would a referendum be 'a lack of respect for intelligence'? can someone tell me what this 'lack of respect for intelligence' means?
“influence peddling, money laundering, illicit enrichment, lack of respect for intelligence and argentine national law”
Sound to me like you've just listed the requirements for the office of government............
How can the Falkland Islands referendum be disrespectful to international law?
His comments are astonishing.
I caught this story early, it looks like 'Ambito' covered the story first it's starting to spread through the RG media now.
www.pagina12.com.ar/diario/ultimas/20-212201-2013-01-19.html
www.telam.com.ar/notas/201301/5124-el-referendum-en-malvinas-es-una-falta-de-respeto-al-derecho-nacional-e-internacional.html
Yeah, by March the whole world will know. They will know where the Falkland Islands are ( if they didn't know already ) and they will know what the islanders want and they will know the Argentinians for the corrupt bunch of bullies that they are!!
All this back-and-forth to the UN, the FIG couldn't have done it better, all they have to do is keep giving the spade to KFC and watch her dig her own hole........ and then fill it in after her!!
@143 They fear this referendum, just as much as they fear facts, rules and citations.
NO, that's “Stealing” plain and simple. This man Amado Boudou, is a crook. He is a part of a government that only knows how to lie and cheat and steal........ He should be shot at dawn and then p*ssed on ( along with Ol' Turkey Neck and laughing boy timerman )
So, basically he's suggesting that: a) Argentinians (settlers, no?) having a referendum is an affront to intelligence and international law; b) falkland islanders are all internet hackers.
This guy makes no sense.
@too Yes, but the Argentines love him, and the whole of the Front for Fail, which is why they keep voting for them. Bribery aside, these toads are not going away in a hurry.
The best thing the falkland islanders can do is keep playing a straight bat.
“Her Majesties Department of the Foreign and Commonwealth Land Pirates Office. Politely decline your invitation for Bilateral talks of the future of the Falklands Islands. No such talks can take place without the inclusion and at the behest of the Falkland Islands Government. the Foreign Office and Commonwealth Land Pirates Office, further wishes the Government of the Republic of Argentina to note, that they only negotiate with grown ups.”
Not sure what the 'hacker ' bit is supposed to mean maybe a translate fail? as it doesn't appear on some of the other links.
You really are a sad, jealous cow aren't you.
Reality check, she'd-time, Slatzzz, toooldtodieyoung, etc
Thanks for your continued support guys. It is much appreciated by us all. I can assure you that the atmosphere in the islands is upbeat and positive. Nobody is talking much about CFK and here gang of thugs let alone worried about them.
Our bats are wide with thick edges and we're seeing them like water melons.
Why would they need a college, when they can attend any of the impressive list below:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_in_the_Uni
I would say they are spoiled for choice.
They have the oldest and best best flying club in the world, it's called the RAF.
Why would 3000 happy and contented people need a five star hotel or a tacky shopping mall?
You really should refrain from judging people by your own lwo standards.
@153 it's funny you mention cables, because I remember the US representative to the UN during the Falklands war was adamantly pro-Argentine. She even tried to turn the president at the time onto the idea of us giving away the islands, presumably still fuelled by the history of the Monroe Doctrine.
Current president Obama has even been seen to be untypically pro-argentine, with some theories existing about them wanting to throw the relationship with the British to the wolves, in exchange for 'good boy' foreign policy credits in South America.
With this in mind, the current strategy of quiet diplomacy in Latin america is probably the best way forwards for the UK. At least we want to trade with them, unlike the Argies.
www.malvinense.com.ar/smalvi/2013/Malvinas_verdad_historica.pdf
The end of the lies of Pascoe and Pepper
The end of lies to the islander people.
It appears South American states endorse bigotry against regional ethnic minorities of non-hispanic origin as an acceptable norm in South America
It is disturbing and offensive that the Argentine state calculates to disenfranchise the Falkland Islanders and that the Argentine people have been indoctrinated by the Argentine state to prefer the ethnic cleansing of the Falkland Islands of any one of British ancestry, to strip these people of their cultural identity and to carry out their forced deportation to Britain, without regard to whether the people were born their or have been immigrants for many years and all would prefer to see that the Islanders lose their home, their possessions, livelihoods, community and way of life, irrespective of the supposed protection of the 1994 Argentine Constitution
It is worse still that South American states collude with Argentina in their odious aim, promoting their own narrow interests and perverting the just principles of the UN Charter
No, Mr Argentine official, the truth of the matter is that it is the Argentine state political and economic persecution of the Falkland Islanders that is an affront to intelligence, and a crime in nation and international law for which the Argentine state and its misguided allies are accountable
Hate it when a link fails, let's try this one shall we.
www.university-list.net/uk/universities-1000.html
nice try sussie is this the same private plane that CFK has to rent off the UK in case Tango 1 gets impounded, HALFWIT. Anyway how are you doing sponging of our US cousins still turning the odd trick or two.............numpty
#124 if the shoe fits talk about it. Lol you shouldn't be shamed by being homosexual, I am proud to be homofovic, your problem is you are too far back in the closet, step up and be gay.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCBOKkQh4Lg&list=PLVsnqjOl38r8u8td01CEbCZQ-lMFbJHK6
abcnews.go.com/Blotter/algeria-terrorists-trade-us-hostages-blind-sheikh/story?id=18247667
#128 we have the rights to self determination and build a nuclear defense program 100% made in Argentina. We also have the right to protect Argentina's territorial integrity and end the vritish illegal occupation of Isalas Malvinas Argentina.
axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_64333.shtml
#130 I though C24 was a plastic explosives, at best it sound like the name for a pack of condoms.
#131 sorry but I don't know what you are talking about isn't Canuda a vritish firm like BP?. America is a great place too bad its not for vritish turnips, Solo Hablamos ingles. Dengue ? I wasn't aware Argentina's president was God.
www.fihplc.com/index.php?section=0
Do you have a version in English?
I'm not copying and pasting to translate all day!
I guess this is why they forget they murdered all their first-nations people in well documented genocides, and why they don't consider themselves an implanted population.
They're just badly educated fools.
Usurpers take home. (your home)
You protest.
Years pass.
The usurper says: ask my children and grandchildren if they want to stay in the house. (referendum)
Argentines take Wight Island.
London protest.
Years pass.
The Argentines say we want to continue to belong to Argentina. 5th generation.
This is our country. (referendum)
Chelsea fans: want to remain Chelsea fans. (referéndum) Obviously, the answer is yes.
@166 I just read a translation of some sections of that paper he 'wrote'. The bit about the numbers of people left on the islands is quite amusing, and just summons the 73% out of the ether at the end. He has a map in it which claims the Falklands are Argentine, but all the names on the map are pretty much in English, including 'Stanley' and The straight of 'Falklands'. His choice of citations are few and far between. The discussion about the 1850 treaty of perfect friendship is diabolical. The summary at the end is just utter nonsense.
The emotionally driving pictures of the indian mutiny and the diego garcia folks, sort of show the quality of the document as a whole. Emotive opinion.
You basically just ramble on for a few pages and have a unclear maps showing where spanish people might have seen the islands. Seriously, it's low quality.
What, no answers to @131 ???
You DO live in Canada, right?!
Toronto, isn't it? Near your Mom and your Aunt? With Cristu, your baby pigeon ( named after CFK, no doubt), ugh, filthy birds they are!! I mean Cristina.
Any plans to go back to Salta, soon??
No, you can't. You could not return to Canada if you did, and you're a coward.
The people in Salta would see you as a privileged Canadian elitist snob and laugh as they overcharge you, then rob you. LOL !!
Posting on Mercopress in poor English does not make you Argentine.
I can't help, but think there must be some reason you are afraid of homosexuals. Just because your “uncle” may have put his sausage in your empanada, that doesn't mean you are homosexual.
Unless, you secretly enjoyed it, of course?
What's your link all about??
www.fihplc.com/index.php?section=0
Please explain what point you are trying to make.
Looks like some foreign investment to me.
Oh, right. Your Argentine La Campora brothers don't have much anymore, and don't understand how it works anyway. Right??
a) the clear reporting biases.
b) the fallacious nature of your arguments considering.
c) vast number of 'citations needed'
d) strawman examples (diego-garcia, etc)
d) where the hell did those conclusions come from?
You'd be getting a “Fail - rewrite” for that slab of text. You need to remember that from a psychological standpoint, only retards listen to one sided arguments, and that's all you are offering in this work.
What's all that nonsense about South Georgia anyways? It's just an orphan. Where did you summon the 73% from? You didn't even include the calculation.
repeat ad nauseum.
#138 is it correct to have the murderers of Muslim women and children in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Palestine, Lebanon, Libya and Syria point their bloody fingers to a local thieves in Argentina, What is that world coming to, where is reality check when you need him?
www.fihplc.com/index.php?section=0
www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCBOKkQh4Lg&list=PLVsnqjOl38r8u8td01CEbCZQ-lMFbJHK6
#140 no need, no body cares about the slaves, Argentines don't have to vote to be Argentine lol, you either are or not, apparently only the vrits suffer this personality crises, I think is guilt and remorse from all the lies, murder and theft they inflicted on others, not even the most hard core vrit can deny it.
axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_64333.shtml
#141 sure we can but I don't think you are mature enough to understand. Let's see if you are ready. Here is your first clue cows are not native of Islas Malvinas Argentina and name another country named after a corporation.
www.fihplc.com/index.php?section=0
#142 for the one in vritain maybe, Unless there is a united kingdom of Argentina.
#143 except they published it under Argentinas news and the Brits try selling the idea that Islas Malvinas Argentina is not Argentina. O well the actions speak for themselves. Cheers get used to being the southern Cuba.
#146 I am hoping the hole world finds out while vritish still kill innocent Muslim women and children all over Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Palestine, lebanon, Syria and now Algeria so we can blow away the smoke screen name fakland island holdings created to hide the vrits.
www.fihplc.com/index.php?section=0
#147 nothing compared with the value we give to Islas Malvinas Argentina.
#148 ask reality check lol but start here
www.fihplc.com/index.php?section=0
#150 more like keep playing with themselves after all threat all vrits and cheer for vrits.
What crime you wanted for back home? must be the only reason why a dipshit like you spouts such crap from the safety of Canada. Your lucky they can not afford the fuel, or they would have applied for your extradition by now.
My guess is you blew up some national monument. Probably trying to split the atom with your junior chemistry set, in the cellar of the Brothel, where Eva Peron plied her trade! That would be my guess.
Rubbish,
A Sommali
There is a little thing called the saltwater rule that the UN applies to these Island populations, and even if that did not exist there is a little thing of history on the UK's side (real history, not the stuff Argentina comes up with).
Maybe Argentina should invade the Faroe Islands, that is closer to distances we are really talking about. Just make sure you get papers of residence off the controlling government first (just like Vernet got papers off the British), and don't try to land any soldiers.
”Chelsea fans: want to remain Chelsea fans. (referéndum) Obviously, the answer is yes.”
The Spanish around the River Plate want to remain Spanish around the River Plate. (referéndum) Obviously, the answer is yes. Or maybe history suggests otherwise.
Maybe you, can process that info and see where your logic falls apart.
remember, parasite,
“Posting on Mercopress in poor English does not make you Argentine.”
It's the same old same old. Interestingly enough, they still don't seem to have that the entire Jewett/Areguati/Vernet part of the case has now been officially negated by their own government at the UN (see @66). Interesting also that the stats given for the 1833 expulsion that never was appear to be those being pushed by Think on the other thread. All part of the anti-referendum campaign, no doubt.
I do love the claim of “In 2012 we received 28,743,971 hits”
(Actual hits approx 300 per day)
But what would you expect from a site that publishes so many untruths and misconceptions.
Falkland Islands - stay resolute! All democratic nations stand behind you!
Rex Hunt 'provoked' the 1982 invasion!!! Nearly fell off me perch laughing at that one!!!!
LMFAO!!
don't forget “malvinense.com.ar” is just another government sponsored site.
www.presidencia.gov.ar/
Thanks. When you think about it, it really is despicable what their government is doing to people, feeding them false, erronious information in that blatent manner.
Awful.
Patricio Mendiondo who runs the site has definitely been indoctrinated from an early age.
I get that the Islanders may not feel ready for that and indeed may not want that, but it would shut Argentina up for ever. Between UK and the Falklands however with Special Relationship Treaties in place it can be business as usual for as long as the Islanders want it: Queen still Head of State; Can even keep the flag as it is (Fiji did). In other words our relationship can be as it is now; but to the outside world The Falklands Sovereignty claim would be ended.
Perhaps that is too simple asolution in the real world. Joe & co has it been considered ?
Of course many have been indoctrinated from an early age
I too was left rolling on the floor at the breath taking lies and false information on this site ( malvinense.com.ar ).......
but, as Escoses Doido points out at 188, Argentinian's who know no better, actually believe this sh*t, this rubbish, these lies that their government put out.
It is really, really dangerous.
The only 'immediate' way to stop the Argentines is to either get Brazil to sit on them economically, or to defeat them in war so routinesly and so significantly that the pavlovian effect is to make them cringe at the idea of another war about the falklands.
... or just ignore them and wait for their society to implode.
Best treat Argentina as mad dog then, keeping distanced but prepared to fight it off.
I believe Ted is right full independence is the solution, the FIG need to make it clear at EVERY opportunity that full independence is the future goal, even if it doesn't happen for another 100+ years. It would help the islanders cause greatly. Most people don't realise its an option! As we all know without Britain in Argentina's sovereignty argument they don't have one.
@193 Shed-time
The FI is much higher profile than Belize, Argentina would have to drop their claim, they wouldn't have a choice. The other South American countries have nothing against the people of the FI and look forward to the day Argentina quits whining.
One glaring flaw in this “paper” , It was written by an Argentinian so it follows that it must be a pack of lies from start to finish,
It is full of the usual lies, half truths and fairy stories to which we have become accustomed. It, of course, starts with the usual BS about the Borgia Pope Alejandro “ceding ” the New World to Spain and Portugal and even establishing borders between the “territory” of each without having the authority so to do - not even by Divine Right.
They all support Venezuela with regards to it demanding 2/3 of Guyana (as if no one lives there) and half of the Caribbean (as if no one lives there), they all support Argentina with its demands to own everything in the South Atlantic (as if no one lives there). Challenging the voice of Venezuela or its pet Argentina is unheard of in Latin america, as they prefer to look like they're political dead fish.
So, no... not naïve.
@195 They have nothing against the peoples of the Falkland islands, just as they have nothing against the people of Guyana or Belize... but if the belligerent power stole what it wanted, they'd essentially look to their leader Venezuela for moral guidance on what they should do.
Then the head of the Peruvian people would get more medals for supporting a war that was started by a junta that no one supported, even though they were all out in the streets in celebration and support. Hmm...
@196 The traditionalist viewpoint typically follows the 'history favours the winner' stand, the revisionist viewpoint typically follows the 'sore loser' standpoint, and the post-revisionist typically tries to find some kind of objective truth, with discussed biases of course.
My issue with the paper is simply that it is badly-written uncited dross. Whosoever wrote it has clearly never engaged in any kind of academic activity above the age of 16, as it would get a fail at GCSE
'Cuba has been swept by a new craze - the red, white and blue of the UK's flag.
The Union flag is now all the rage, sported by young Cubans on their clothes, nails - and even spotted as tattoos, and shaved into the back of people's heads.
While for some it is just another fashion symbol, others say the trend began with the London Olympics, which were followed avidly in Cuba and hugely popular'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21082793
Would increase tourism, trade, cultural exchange.
Geography favors us all. It only takes half an hour by plane.
Use your head, not hate.
No the only thing that's going to get AR off the FI's back is for a majority of Argentine to put in an adult and responsible government that understands that AR will be far better off with the FI as a prosperous neighbor, trading partner and a mutually collegial, if not 100% friendly neighbor, rather than a Emmanuel Goldstein to distract from domestic problems when things go pear-shaped at home whenever they need a two-minute hate.
What it WILL do is take them off the C24 list (and if it doesn't then the C24 isn't even the joke that it is now). And that's about it. And even there some of the idiot Campora and Malvanistas won't even recognize Commonwealth countries as sovereign -- so their Sudetenland will always belong to the Fatherland, and they promise, they will be nice to the “pirats” and “squatters” or whatever they call the untermensch who have lived there since before the pure and perfect Argentines were Argentine.
Pity it can never happen with countries. What a relief for the Falklands if the Argies all moved out one day and say the Canadians moved in. The Argies could move to Canada and be right next door to the USA. They would even have some Islands to covet, St Pierre & Miquelon. Let France put up with their whinging for a while and give us a break.
Isn't one of the mad bunch of Malvinistas already there ? Maybe the move has already started.
“Instead of thinking about wars, look for ways to partner with Argentina.
Would increase tourism, trade, cultural exchange.
Geography favors us all. It only takes half an hour by plane.
Use your head, not hate.”
What a good idea, you put away your guns, we will re-call our troops and then we will try killing each other in a civilised way....
Your last line, that should have been aimed fairly and squarely at your president. I am sure, in fact, I am quite certain that the Falkland Islanders would LOVE to work in partnership with Argentina on such things as tourism and trade.
But your leader seems to want to hate a people that she has never even met, doesn't even recognise. So there can be agreements, no cultural exchange until she learns to live in peace with her next door neighbour.
So, who precisely do you think is hating? I'd be interested to know, because you seem to think it's the FIG who is causing pain to Argentina.
And you share a goodly part of the fault as a citizen of AR and Malvanista for continuing to enable it.
@203. Uh Ted? Given our collegial and friendly standoffs w.r.t. the our current border disputes with our northern neighbor, I'd prefer it if they stay in the southern hemisphere, thankyverymuch...
“Instead of thinking about wars, look for ways to partner with Argentina.
Would increase tourism, trade, cultural exchange.”
A very strange comment especially after your post:-
157 Malvinense 1833
The British fallacies exposed.
www.malvinense.com.ar/smalvi/2013/Malvinas_verdad_historica.pdf
The end of the lies of Pascoe and Pepper
The end of lies to the islander people.
I was just thinking that the U.S. would enjoy putting the Argentinians cap on straight.
The islands were taken over by the British.
Pascoe and Pepper lie, making a play on words of the treaty of 1850.
However, I am convinced that there can be a better relationship between the people and perhaps reach some agreement.
Leave aside the governments, people begin to interact and get to know.
Is there any way of getting to know you? there a way to write? is there any way of knowing their homes? is there a way to know their dreams?
Pascal and Pepper are not liars, as you are calling them.
Shame on you.
You sound like a 'young earth creationist' your mind set is identical.
They believe this planet was created by god around six thousand years ago, - And you believe your country has a legitamate claim ofer the Falkland Islands.
If you leave aside Governments, people the world over would generally get on a whole load better. Lots of wars have been started by them through the centuries. Mind you, I am also reminded of the fact that if everyone sat down at the same time and had a 'Smoke', there would be world peace for one and a half hours...
I could only suggest to you to go there. If I wanted to find out what the FI really are like, then I'd go there, same for Bs As. If you have a genuine desire to find out what the Falkland Islands are like, and how the people live their lives, then you can only do that by being there in person. If you don't go around planting flags on Stanley Racecourse and saying 'Las Malvinas son Argentinas'', then I'm sure you would be fine. I.E. Keep politics out.
The fact is, you as a Malvanista are scared of the 1850 treaty because it exposes you as being the liars, cheats and backbone-less weasels that you are.
Even your language now 'pretends' that the falkland islanders caused this strife.
The only outcome of any talks, as far as Argentina is concerned, is the date of the return of the Islands to Argentina.
Who has sovereignty of the Islands is not up for debate as far as Argentina is concerned, n wonder there have been no further talks
The Argentine Nation ratifies its legitimate and non-prescribing sovereignty over the Malvinas, Georgias del Sur and Sandwich del Sur Islands and over the corresponding maritime and insular zones, as they are an integral part of the National territory. The recovery of these territories and the full exercise of sovereignty, respecting the way of life for its inhabitants and according to the principles of international law, constitute a permanent and unwavering goal of the Argentine people.
These people cannot even pay their debts, they ignore treaties, negotiate through war, bring nothing to the table and walk out of 'discussions'. It's utter nonsense that they even consider anyone would negotiate with them.
She is going to beat the islanders to it, by having their OWN referendum,
All argentines can vote if they wish to remain argentine,
Very stupid it may be,
But very effective,
Lolololololol.cough, cough ..
penclied in for April the 1st..
Dude, 999 is with us on this.
They attempted to sieze a country by force of arms and failed. Three decades later, they think that failure can be put right by diplomatic negotiations!
What was not achieved by force, can retrospectively be achieved through diplomacy.
Is it me, or is there something slightly bizare in that?
They and the UN should be told in no uncertain terms., that following 1982, there will never be any negotiations, over anything to do with Falkland Islands.
that's one of the problems here, no edit button.
many a time have I wanted to edit what I posted
.
I should have added more context to my post
and ignore democracy,
CFK can never ever be trusted,
only a fool would let the wolfe come to tea..
VII. Under this Convention perfect friendship between Her Britannic Majesty's Government and the Government of the Confederation, is restored to its former state of good understanding and cordiality.
Art. VII Mediante esta convención, queda restablecida la perfecta amistad entre el Gobierno de la Confederación y el de S. M. Británica, a su anterior estado de buena inteligencia y cordialidad.
There is no mention of the Falklands or of las Malvinas in the this treaty. Had there been any outstanding item to impede “ the state of good understanding and cordiality” then this would have been mentioned.
david run away after...
David, queres presentar un caso de uti possidetis con el tratado Arana-Southern, el cual no tiene nada que ver con Malvinas, colocando a las islas como territorio de conquista, lo irónico es que según ustedes no es un botín de guerra, y solo basta remontarse a Parish que en 1831 al elevar la protesta formal a Guido habla de los derechos de soberanía de su majestad Británica.
¿Entendes el significado implícito de lo que estas citando?
Nada más ni nada menos estas diciendo que el titulo presentado por Gran Bretaña en la ocupación de las islas es simplemente la conquista y el uso de la fuerza sobre el vencido.
También me gustaría saber y dado que es el punto central de lo que planteas ¿que tiene que ver el conflicto que dio origen al bloqueo anglo-francés con las islas?
Porque las islas no fueron la causa o parte del bloqueo como ni siquiera estaban en manos argentinas para ser usurpadas por la infantería de marina británica en ese tiempo.
Estaban ocupadas por los británicos desde 1833 ¿o no?
Entonces…
¿Qué tratado de paz se firmo por la ocupación británica de las islas Malvinas?
Te recuerdo que ya el 17 de junio de ese año Manuel Moreno presento una protesta escrita en idioma ingles y francés, y otra el 29 de diciembre de 1834.
Vuelvo a preguntar ¿cuando se firmo un tratado por las islas?
Explica Rudolf Dolzer:
“Los británicos se fueron de las islas en 1774 y dejaron una placa diciendo que eran propias. Pero no regresaron hasta 1833 y recién hicieron su primer reclamo en 1828.
Los argentinos estaban entonces en el terreno, reclamando las islas jurídica y físicamente. Según la teoría del siglo XIX, estaba permitido el uso de la fuerza pero el hecho de que hayan dejado una placa, no les da derechos, sobre el territorio a los británicos, después de haberlo abandonado.
www.topix.com/forum/world/falkland-islands/TR0KI67QOU0O96MB3/p4
that made as much sense as when you post in English
This cause will have a true incontestable answer, the day that the u. k. decides to respect the resolutions from the u. n., and resume the negotiations with arg., in order to find a negotiated solution for this conflict, as the u. n. asks both nations.
The chair of the decolonizaton committee considered this refedendum like a politic ploy of the the u. k., so, i don't think it changes it's considerations regarding this cause, after the result of that so called referendum.
There is something that the islanders will have to understand someday, if the u. n has never asked the u. k. to return the islands to arg., and although that institution has never invoked the right to self determination for this cause, like it did for others colonial situations, or although the case has always been considered like a special colonial situation by the u. n., and never included the islanders as a third part of the conflict, due to all the resolutions just asked arg. and the u. k. to resume the negotiations in order to find a solution for this cause, in fact, if you get into the website of the u. n., you won't find any resolution which says, application of the right to self determination for the population from the malvinas-falkland islands, like there are for most cases of populations who live in territories which are non-self governing territories.
Despite all these considerations, if the u. n has never asked the u. k. to return the islands to arg., it means that in some way, the wishes of the islanders must be taken into account, and i have always supported it.
In fact, although the u. k. decides to resume the dialogue with arg. for the sovereignty of the islands, if the islanders manifest that they want to remain under british govt., arg. won't be able to force them to accept our sovereignty only. However it's not imposible to find a fair solution, like the secret proposal of 1974 that c. f. k. read before the u. n.
“In fact, although the u. k. decides to resume the dialogue with arg. for the sovereignty of the islands, if the islanders manifest that they want to remain under british govt., arg. won't be able to force them to accept our sovereignty only. However it's not imposible to find a fair solution, like the secret proposal of 1974 that c. f. k. read before the u. n.”
Sorry, Axel. Any proposals prior to 1982, “1974”, “secret” or otherwise, are no longer valid, and OFF THE TABLE.
Any offer of hand-off is WITHDRAWN, due to a change of circumstances - an invasion in 1982, and now a change of government that has stated that any negotiation MUST end in complete Argentine sovereignty over the Islands.
The decolonisation process is between the administering state and the administered territory. This process has got nothing to do with vulturous greedy hitlerist states wanting more land, and the whole decolonisation process was started by self-determination of peoples, and ends when the falkland islanders choose to be a BOT through 'free association' as laid out by the UN.
Any 'secret' proposals ended when you took negotiations to military action and started the highly popular War of Aggression in 1982. Losing this war meant that you lost any claims to the islands under international law.
If you don't understand this, then it's your tough titties.
I still don't get it . What is it you want ? Rather than waffle about “we just want to talk”.
If you want sovereignty, the answer is a resounding no !!!!!
I think that is the incontestable ANSWER.
If you don't want sovereignty then what is there to talk about ?
Joint sovereignty is a non starter. It would not work between two nations who violently distrust each other.
Please spell out your proposals and solution for us in simple language so that there can be no misunderstanding.
We realise, of course that you do NOT speak for the Argentine administration, but only for yourself, as do all others in this forum.
I didn't think delusions could be projected onto 40mil people without the use of quite strong psychoactive drugs, but apparently it can.
But they had nothing to do with the invasion, it was the junta that was responsible for the invasion
I don't think any decent person who saw his little fascist diatribe at the Falklands delegation could care less about the opinion of that horrible scumbag Ecuadorian excuse for a diplomat.
Who can trust the botox queen?
@240 Does Ecuadorian Julian Assange support the head of the C24 in his campaign to force small countries to live under the power of foreign oppressive states?
www.fihplc.com/index.php?section=0
UK has said many many times- it will sit down and negotiate with Argentina if WE - the people wish.
We have made it very very clear - and are likley to do so again on 10th March - that we do NOT want and Sovereignty Negotiations with Argentina.
UK accepts and respects this - Therefore there are NONE.
Now you say that Arg will have to accept our wishes on this if there were any talks.
Please explain to me the POINT of any talks when we have already said we do not want any changes to our Sovereignty and you claim that Arg would have to accept this position anyway.
Can you explain to me whay the Arg Govt has refused to even reply to the offer made to it by the elected Islands Govt for both sides to sit and start to talk about peacefull possibilities and mending the mistrust on mutual subjects outside the Sovereignty issues.
As a logical means of calming issues and lowering temperatures.
Why has your Govt refused to acknowledge or reply to the offer?
Argentina needs an external enemy and problem to distract the population.
Should they start believing that the Islands are indeed a self governing territory in free association with the UK as proven by this referendum then CFK will lose one of her best tools to distract..... well the tools I suppose.
It's not as if she can invade or pick a fight with any of the 5 countries they have a land border with.
Julian looked a bit pale at his latest book release - not to mention, frustrated and touchy.
Perhaps, but C24 is far too corrupt to do the right thing so there is little need for KFC to worry.
“...when two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one side to be simply wrong.”
― Richard Dawkins
Dr Shadow attempts to give a measured and learned response but his reply is not valid as it based on assumptions not on facts. In a court of law his theories would be dismissed as totally trivial.
@157 Malvinense1833 This response to the academics Pascoe and Pepper is, of course, also flawed. Unlike Pascoe and Pepper, who had access to official documents in Argentina and Spain, the author apparently never bothered to research historical documents in the UK - his work it totally irrelevant whilst that of Pascoe and Pepper is well researched and could be used in a court of law.
Argentina wants to talk about sovereignty,
We do not,
They say, ah, just because you say, does not mean no,
We said no sovereignty, can you understand that,
Ah, but we want to get sovereignty, can we have it please,
NO ,
Does that mean, no you don’t want it, or no the islanders don’t want it,
Please can we have sovereignty..
Shit Harry take the bloody batteries out of his brain,
CFK yes sir , no sir , yes sir, no sir,
Still,
If you don’t understand [NO ]
Then you must be indoctrinated,
[can we have sovereignty now ]
ahhhhhhhhhhhh
.
Everything is answered in books by authors Argentines and foreigners.
Starting with the 1850 treaty.
If true what they say then so why the UK would do not use it as evidence.
So why the UK negotiated part of the twentieth century with Argentina?
This shows the lies of these two authors.
Art 1: ...to end the differences that have disrupted POLITICAL and COMMERCIAL relations.
These relationships were discontinued in 1845.
The dispute over the islands continued, as demonstrated during the 19th century, 20, and 21.
Can you provide us with a legal judgement that rules the 1850 Treaty of Perfect Friendship to: a) be nullified at some point after 1850; b) has an amendment NOT including the Falkland islands in the treaty; and c) was worded in any way ambiguously.
Can you provide us with citations to articles that show that Argentina didn't lose the 1982 war of aggression, thereby losing any rights it has to the islands under international law?
Many thanks, and can you do it rapidly as we're all waiting.
Pascoe and Pepper have never been discredited every thing is properly cited. If you want to tilt at them you have to be specific. Vagaries and humble opinions don't count. Now you want to run that 1850 Convention of Settlement argument by me, because I have at least eight historical legal experts that say with its signing Argentina had lost the islands.
Why would the the UK have to make any claim they enjoy possession. I ts whining, wanting Argentina that is the claimant. The burden was on Argentina to have instigated litigation. But opportunity is now lost to her through her own negligence. What are you talking about the dispute continued etc. Argentina after 1850 made no official claims until 1941, with possibly some muttering in 1884.
In his Message at the opening of the Argentine Congress on 1 May 1865, President Bartolomé Mitre said that Argentina had scrupulously fulfilled undertakings with Britain and France, so “there was nothing to prevent the consolidation of friendly relations between this country and those Governments.”6 If there had been a dispute between Britain and Argentina over the Falklands, there would have been something to prevent that consolidation. P&P
With all due respect, can you tell me in that article, Argentina renunciation of sovereignty of the islands?
Tratado Arana - Southern
www.elhistoriador.com.ar/documentos/epoca_de_rosas/acuerdo_con_gran_bretana_tras_el_enfrentamiento_en_la_vuelta_de_obligado.php
A committee chaired by Mitre ordered the inclusion of the Malvinas Islands on a map of Argentina. It was approved by Congress.
P & P's said to you?
In 1882 the Foreign Ministry of Argentina, and not of some other country, produced a map called the Latzina Map. It clearly shows the Falkland Islands as non-Argentine land by the fact that it was coloured without shaded relief of any features just as Chile was.
120,000 copies of this map were produced and some are still in existence now. They were distributed to Argentinean embassies around the world as part of the drive for immigrants.
Why is this map important? It was used by Chile at the ICJ to prove its claim to 3 Beagle Channel islands. The judges ruled in 1977 that one of the reasons they believed Chile was because of this map produced by the Argentinean government.
Please now try to unprove history. Your own government in 1882 clearly did not believe the Falklands were Argentine.
This isn't 1833, this is 1882. Almost 50 years after Argentina's garrison was booted out.
Please try to explain away the inconvenience of your own government in 1882….. I dare you!
I dare you to do a little research and rebut this point and this point only...... don't deflect. Just concentrate on this map produced by your government and nothing else.
Bet you can't!
Where do you expect Britain to use it as evidence? I am not aware of any current litigation in the International Court of Justice or, indeed, any other court. So, plea, do tell us where you expect it to be used.
You don't have a leg to stand on!
Nothing wrong with having a drink while relaxing.
l often do it! well not that often! lol.
@234 Axel,
How often do you have to be told, Axel baby?
There will be NO NEGOTIATIONS on SOVEREIGNTY.
Would you like me to remind you every day, señor?
l can, if you like.
l think that you have the attention span of a retarded goldfish.
Poltroon
Where are the resolutions specifically applying the right to self determination to the other overseas territories?
I have looked on the UN website and I can't find any.
What I can see is the Falkland Islands listed as one of the 16 territories yet to gain independence. It doesn't say anything about Argentina.
What has the 'secret proposal' got to do with anything? That was 40 years ago, and it didn't have anything to do with Islanders' wishes. The days when the UK could even think about signing away the rights of Islanders without asking them are long gone.
You need to get this clear in your mind; there will never be a time when it is in our interest to live under the Argentine flag or to speak Spanish, and there is no way, practically, that you can make us do it. You might think it is 'fair', to you, but it isn't fair to us, and it isn't going to happen.
Secret proposal. No such thing. Ministers and civil servants tasked to deal with such matters, followed several approaches and did not sit at desks twiddling their thumbs. The brits followed UN resolution 2065 which set down the reasoning for the negotiation. The proposal included the term “interests of the population of the Falkland Islands” and any outcome would require their agreement as it is quite obviousily a case of self determination, as in the UN charter. Britain negotiated, the falklanders considered and rejected the suggestion, as is their right. Do you think Argentina would be a good bet for the islanders? Certainly not then, certainly not now.
Colonist should all be murdered and their busyness burned to the ground to stop their nuclear armament. We Argentine support a nuclear defense program to end the illegal occupation of Islas Malvinas Argentina that's all, simple. No war no blood, but we Argentine can deal with them at their level and for that reason we demand CFK to build a nuclear defence program 100% made in Argentina.
axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_64333.shtml
www.fihplc.com/index.php?section=0
www.globalresearch.ca/mi6-sas-cia-western-troops-in-syria/5302879
www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/07/19/251720/uks-mi6-behind-syria-bomb-attack/
www.people.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2012/03/18/sas-in-syria-to-guard-mi6-spies-on-missions-102039-23792367/
I stand for Argentinas territorial integrity and the end of vritish illegal occupation of Islas Malvinas Argentina. Let execute all the terrorists, thieves, child molesters and perverts of international laws.
Poster (257), “Anglotino” seems to “Think” that he has found a valuable piece of information on the Internet.......
The “Latzina” map....
www.flickr.com/photos/53629230@N02/5040513492/
A pity for him that what he found is just a fake....
Herewith the “non modified” 1882 Stiller & Laass map.
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Map.rep.arg.1883.jpg
1) Please note that them Islands are called “Islas Malvinas”.
2) Please note that them Islands Malvinas are the same color as the rest of Patagonia*
* (Tierras incultas = Non Cultivated Land)
Poor little Ozzie sausage....
He got all excited, daring people to do a little research....
Brainwash anybody?
You are a bit hard on the Argentine colonists by saying that they should all be murdered and their businesses burned to the ground. However, if you say so it must come to pass.
I notice you have gone all Germanic in your posts. ”Ve hav vays of making you talk. I always thought that Canadian education was rather good but I suppose even they cannot teach THICKOS >
Interesting map that set me thinking. In 1882 those uncultivated lands (Patagonia, Tierra Del Fuego, Islas Malvinas) were collective possessions of the Provinces that made up the State of Argentina, is that not right? Sort of Argentinian Continental and Maritime Territories. Colonies if you will, which were decolonised by their incorporation into the Argentinian State. This was done through the creation of more Provinces spasmodically until completed in 1990 with the inclusion of TdF, the South Atlantic Islands and Antarctica in the Provincial fold. Until 1990 the Falkland Islands were a twice dispossessed colony of Argentina, I suppose. So Argentinian territorial integrity has been compromised since 1990. Prior to that it was an argument over the right to colonise a possession in the southern hemisphere between a southern hemisphere State and a northern hemisphere State. Pretty clear that being in the same hemisphere is the clinching argument for Argentina.
Am I on message?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du0JDfaT4_w ???
This thread is funny.
On the other thread “Think” has admitted the only “argentines” ever removed from the islands had only been there 10 weeks, and had already murdered and raped.
Apparently this is in the “argentine national archives”
So, that's it boys and girls.
10 weeks of murders and rapes (currently being called the indigenous population by the Argie vice president), versus 180 years of peaceful civilisation of the current population.
Hmm...it's a toughie!!
Here's a dialogue for you.
1) get out of Patagonia and return it to the indigenous
2) return the remainder of “current” stolen Argentine land post 1833
3) stop brainwashing your children
4) sort out your own countries mess
Then, perhaps, we will let you refine some of the Falklands oil in your refineries and pay you the market rate for the service.
“A pity for him that what he found is just a fake....”
So a fake?
Did Francisco Latzina exist? Yes!
In charge of the National Bureau of Statistics? Yes from 1880 to 1916.
Know a lot about Argentine geography? Yes, he published:
Géographie de la Repúblique Argentine in 1890
L'agriculture et l'élevage dans la République Argentine also in 1889
Diccionario geográfico argentino in 1899
Suplemento al Diccionario geográfico argentino in 1908.
Does the map exist? Yes. Recognised by the UN actually.
untreaty.un.org/cod/riaa/cases/vol_XXI/53-264.pdf
Carefully read paragraphs 126-128.
Bernardo de Irigoyen, the Argentine Interior Minister ordered it drawn up. Latzina produced it and the Argentine government published it in 1833 as a pamphlet “The Argentine Republic as a field for European Immigration”.
It's inconvenience is now trying to be downplayed.
As the maps you linked showed:
1/ there are no terrain markings or features in the islands or Chile as opposed to Argentina
2/ the islands are not in the bottom left hand box entitled “Situacion de la República Argentina en la América del Sud”
3/ The islands themselves are called “Falkland Oriental” and “Falkland Occidental” and not “Isla Soledad” and “Isla Gran Malvina”
“Please note that them Islands are called “Islas Malvinas””
Common occurrence on maps to name any features in the language the map is produced in. The name “Océano Atlántico Austral” doesn't mean it is owned by Argentina. Calling Deutschland Germany on English maps does not denote territorial ownership. Weak!
“Please note that them Islands Malvinas are the same color as the rest of Patagonia”
Aah not. Get someone younger who doesn't need glasses to have a look at them again mate. Either way the original copies and not Internet copies are the clincher-I hear the colour in real life 'pops'. Weak!
“Poor little Ozzie sausage.... He got all excited”
It's hard to get excited on here when you're the calibre of opposition on here.
Now while some people on here don't like Argentina very much, I think most on here would think it is going a bit far for you to say 97% of Argentina's population should be killed.
You are assuming that ARS HAS working refineries.
Whilst that MAY be the case at present, with the starving of resources to YPF that may NOT be the case in the near future (shades of Venezuela).
And, would you trust them or their process volume meters?
Oh very well played, that man.
Loved your reasoned answers.
lsn't it fun to put sr Think in his place, the hypocritical old windbag, that he is!
So much and yet so easy. I'm sure there's a law against taking this much pleasure with old people.
Where are the challenging intelligent Argentineans?
A poor attempt to blur your turnipidity…
You found a copy of an existent map on Internet, evidently forged by a Brutish Turnip with a felt pen in his hand….
You were so naïve that you even copied the counterfeiter text on his crude falsification…
www.flickr.com/photos/53629230@N02/5040513492/
Fakers text:
“Published in 120,000 copies, distributed to Argentine consulates all over the world to attract immigrants to Argentina.”
What is so important about this map, is that this is the very map that played a significant role in the territorial dispute over the Beagle Channel Islands between Argentina and Chile.
In 1977 a court of arbitration consisting of judges from The International Court of Justice ruled that they belonged to Chile, pointing out that they are marked on the 1882 Latzina map as if they were outside Argentina.”
Anglotino's text:
“120,000 copies of this map were produced and some are still in existence now. They were distributed to Argentinean embassies around the world as part of the drive for immigrants.
Why is this map important? It was used by Chile at the ICJ to prove its claim to 3 Beagle Channel islands. The judges ruled in 1977 that one of the reasons they believed Chile was because of this map produced by the Argentinean government.”
Anyhow…. The non-tampered map, I linked from Wikipedia, shows:
1) There are neither terrain markings or features at the north or south of the rio Chubut, where most of my Au placers are situated ;-)
2) Them Islands are not in the bottom left hand box entitled “Situacion de la República Argentina en la América del Sud”……... because they are covered by the above mentioned text-box.
3) The color of Patagonia and them Islands IS the same.
The only place where the color ”Pops” is in your fake map.
Color blindness (and turnipidity) have nothing to do with age, laddie…..
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Map.rep.arg.1883.jpg
Get a life, matey
Chuckle chuckle©
The maps presented by P & P are not official.
Please read chapter 22:
www.malvinense.com.ar/smalvi/2013/Malvinas_verdad_historica.pdf
Thank you, Think:
www.flickr.com/photos/53629230 @ N02/5040513492 /
please read post nº 1:
Begin to answer this by saying that this map was not developed by any official body of the Argentina Republic.
But suppose, just suppose, it was an official map of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Government of General Roca. If this map was used to inform immigrants “can show how a territory which can be reached to ” colonize ”a territory over which sovereignty is not exercised effectively?
I also ask, Is there, at the same time, a map of Britain showing to the Malvinas Islands as their own territory
In 1833 the Malvinas Islands were inhabited and governed by Argentine (depending on the Province of Buenos Aires) What rights, argues the UK to claim possession beyond the right of conquest
Does not matter, at that time, the interest of the people?.
The Malvinas are India, Hong Kong or Pakistan, the people are a population established after forcibly evict the villagers previous.
Again, P & P have been exposed.
Again, thank you Think.
Malvi, what your guy has actually done is to confirm the Pepper and Pascoe version of the map story, not contradict it.
In 1884, the Argentine Geographic Institute produced a NEW map as part of the claim to the Falklands it intended to 'revive'. The Latzina map cited by Anglotino dates from two years BEFORE that.
Your guy just attempts to skirt round the absence of the Falklands on the Latzina map by claiming that the the Latzina maps was not official, but does not deny the content or existence of the map. He even credits Latzina as being a member of the Argentine Geographical Institute, which is the official source of maps.
“Respecto al Sr. Ricardo Latzina, miembro del Instituto Geográfico Argentino al igual que miembro honorario de la “Royal Statistical Society” de Londres, realizó diversas publicaciones particulares
con resultados cartográficos “ambiguos” ”
Which is more or less exactly what P&P said.
Not that any of this matters much in 2013, but I do enjoy how you systematically post Argentine documents that undermine the Argentine case. Thus we have been able to confirm recently, and purely from Argentine sources, that :
- there was no claim to the Falklands before August 1829
- only the garrison was expelled in 1833
- Argentine maps did not include the Falklands until 1888.
Do keep it up.
you keep thanking “Think”, but he has betrayed you key argument
”In 1833 the Malvinas Islands were inhabited and governed by Argentine (depending on the Province of Buenos Aires)“
Think has admitted that this is wholly untrue. not only is it wholly untrue it is confirmed in the ”Argentine National Archives“
The Vernet community was not Argentine nor governed from Buenos Aires.
The militia certainly were not inhabitants, they only been there 10 weeks, and already murdered and raped.
Without there being any ”inhabitants“, there was no usurption...
Thanks ”Think” chuckle chuckle.....
Nice try at an arrogance. First you can't argue and secondly you aren't eloquent enough to beat me for arrogance so its fruitless to even try.
Fail!
We agree the map exists. There are plenty of the 9 page booklets with the 89x58cms map in existence. So let's concentrate on the “non-tampered map, [you] linked from Wikipedia”.
Your whole argument hinges on the colouring. So let's leave this aside, for as you argued, this can be altered and faked. I will accept this as a possibility.
Let's concentrate on the other features. The ones that can't be altered. The points you ignored.
Terrain Markings or Hachures:
Clearly limited to Argentina. You may concentrate on the paucity around the Rio Chubut but I am looking at the whole map. Chile has no hachures and neither do the Islands. By their very definition they are not accurate but they still clearly outline the ENTIRE Argentine coast including Isla de los Estados (at 534 km2 - 13% the size of East Falkland). No hills or coast outlined on the Falklands.
Naming or Exonyms and Endonym:
The islands are entitled Islas Malvinas, a case of an exonym. However the individual islands are entitled using Falkland, a case of an endonym and recognition that the islands were named by the British.
Marginalia and Insets:
You agree with me that the Islands are covered by the title in the inset. Interesting because it was possible to place this title in a manner so the Islands weren't covered. Along the top, to the left in the Pacific or even further to the right with an expansion of the entire inset to cover more of Chile. Countries don't delete parts of their territory in this manner.
Ignoring colour I could still easily make my point.
These are not the mistakes a country advertising itself around the world and trying to reclaim land lost 50 years earlier would make.
Thanks for your help. You are what is commonly called a “prop”, you just proved MY point.
I'm too disdainful to chuckle at you.
SCREENNAME. MONTY69. MUSKY.
Sorry for my dely, but i had no time to check my i mails.
Accept it or not, the invasion of 1982 doesen't represent any end for this dispute, due to despite that war, the u. n has always continued calling arg. and the u. k. to resume the negotiations and find a solution.
Respecting the wishes of the islanders, the solution for this dispute can't depend mostly on their will, specially if the u. n has never included them as a third part of the conflict, if you don't believe what i say, just get into the website of the u. n. and you'll see that there is not any resolution which says, applicaton of the right to self determination for the population form the islands, while it is true that the islands are considered like a non-self governing territory, it is also true that this cause has always been considered like a special colonial situation, beside, the u. n has never invoked that right for this cause, like it did for others colonial situations. In fact, i recommend you to search in the news archive of this website, what the president from the decolonization committe said about that so called referendum, self determination etc, it's very interesting, the date s june 15th or 16th, 2012. If you don't agree with his analysis, sorry.
In the same way that i have always criticised the fact that our govt. doesn't include the govt. from the islands in the proposal of dialogue that it asks the u. k., the govt. from the islands is not acting correcty either, because it has never accepted to discuss about the sovereignty which is the main rpoblem. The secret proposal of 1974 was based basicly on a shared sovereignty, c. f. k. read them before the u. n. in june 14th 2012.
The day you learn to have intellectual honesty, in order to debate about politic and leave your hipocresy behind, you'll realise that actually the 3 parts arent' acting correctly, not just arg.
Sorry Axel, but the only possible replies to this stupid nonsense end in “.. off!”
While you're doing that, please note that :
- the UN has never once supported the Argentine claim
- the UN has never once mandated negotiations about sovereignity
- the UN has never once stated a derogation, in this case or any other, from its founding principle of self-determination
- the Secretary General of the UN does not believe Britain is in breach of any resolution.
-the president of the C24 is a stooge and an asshole.
- the secret proposal of 1974 was never a secret. It is no longer a practical option since the Argentine invasion of 1982, and the resulting 1000 deaths.
- you never had a case to begin with anyway.
All wrong Axel, in fact a complete load of drivel.
The only ones not acting correctly Axel, are the Argentine government & you.
You are an idiot.
The amount of times Deigo Garcia gets dragged into Falklands debates with cries of racism, but lo and behold, the British government were going to shit on the Falkland Islanders at around the same era.
In the UK attitudes change, and 2013 is not the same as 1974. While Argentinas government still acts as though it is the Imperialist 19th century, the UK government is clearly less authoritarian than 40 years ago.
The president from the decolonization committe's comments: Any decent human being would find his actions disgusting, so he has probably done the Falklanders a favour as long as they can get the video out into the wider media.
In short……...............:
An Argentinean map of 1883 calling the Islas Malvinas for…: “Islas Malvinas” makes you “Think” that the Islas Malvinas are not Argentinean…..
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Map.rep.arg.1883.jpg
An Argentinean map of 1883 depicting the Islas Malvinas in the same color than the rest of Continental Argentina makes you “Think” that the Islas Malvinas are not Argentinean…..
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Map.rep.arg.1883.jpg
Mate… you better keep discussing Malvinas with that young deranged Argentinean: Mr. Pirathunter.
You are in the same “Think” league…
Chuckle chuckle©
That was EXACTLY the calibre of the reply I expected!
The lighter color for the Falkland Islands may mean missing data or that Argentina is not in actual possession.
Anyway the map is not official.
At the time of an official map including islands, London protested:
Ortiz Response to Monson: “The Government of His Britannic Majesty should not find probable motive in this protest, since such inclusion does not alter the state have always been considered the Falklands, whose issue, as Your Excellency has had manifestármelo's deference, is pending and subject to the resolution of the governments.
Respuesta de Ortiz a Monson: ”El Gobierno de su Majestad Británica no debería hallar en esto motivo fundado de protesta, desde que esa inclusión no modifica en nada el estado en que siempre se han considerado las Malvinas, cuya cuestión, como Vuestra Excelencia ha tenido la deferencia de manifestármelo, se halla pendiente y sujeta a la solución de los Gobiernos.”
It seems strange that P & P shows a map and conceal the existence of the other map?
View map hidden by P & P in the link of Think post 287
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Map.rep.arg.1883.jpg
I see. So :
- maps produced by the Argentine Geographic Institute in 1884 are 'official'
- maps produced by the Argentine Geographic Institute before 1884 are not 'official'
- but Think's map produced by one Curt Stiller in 1883 is 'official'
Is that it?
Alternatively, maybe your guy is dead right when he talks about 'cartográficos “ambiguos”' prior to 1884. (nice euphemism there)
But that would make P&P right too. Which brings us right back to the start again, as usual.
Mate you are so far behind everyone else that you actually think you are the one in front.
So short version:
The map was produced by the Argentine government, is official and copies still exist.
So so hard to argue with physical evidence.
Jan 25th, 2013 - 02:06 am
The Letzina map was correct enough for the ICJ to arbitrate in favour of Chile over Islas PNL!!!!!!!
The United Kingdom has been united under Union Jack for thousands of years.
The Romans never invaded, they came to stay in the south as tourists.
The Anglo-Saxons never invaded, they werer also tourists.
East Anglia, Essex, Kent, Mercia, Northumbria, Sussex and Wessex were not separate states, but provinces in the United Kingdom.
Danelagen (the Danelaw) was a tourist resort.
The vikings never invaded, they came as tourists and Knud (Cnut) was kind of UK citizen even before he arrived.
The Norman conquest never happened, the Normans they came as tourists and William was also a kind of UK citizen even before he arrived.
Etc.
In short........................:
1875
An Argentinean map of 1875 calling the Islas Malvinas...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Seelstrang.1875.jpg
Two maps ambiguous Latzina makes you think to P & P Argentina renunciation of sovereignty.
definition ambiguous: www.thefreedictionary.com/ambiguous
Cleverly hide the map in which the islands have the same color as the rest of Argentina.
1882
An Argentinean map of 1882 calling the Islas Malvinas...
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Map.rep.arg.1883.jpg
These maps are particular publications, unofficial.
1885
An Argentinean map of 1885 calling the Islas Malvinas...
www.antiguospobladores.org/1800-1899/367-mapa-de-1886-del-instituto-geografico-argentino.html
Before and after Laztina maps, exist Argentine maps including islands as Argentine.
Where is the resignation?
Again P & P are unmasked.
And the island people know the truth.
I hope to discuss these issues sometime, sharing a meal :-))
Regards.
Who cares what some mouldy old maps say?
This has always been our land & it is now.
l have listened to your feeble evidence, malvinistas, & its mostly irrelevant.
You have no case & you know it.
Go & claim someone elses land if you want an empire.
There is nothing here for you.
“Who cares what some mouldy old maps say?”
Maybe Pascoe and Pepper, who present false evidence.
“This has always been our land & it is now.”
I agree.
“There is nothing here for you.”
His words left me sad.
However, I have something for you:
www.fondoswiki.com/fondos/rosas-rojas-8-4-jpg
Kisses, Isolde.
“Kisses, Isolde.”
You have given yourself away Think, you stalker.
Thank you Malvi, but l am happily married.
@298 Troy Tempest,
Malvinense has been on here before, l could be wrong but l don't think that it's our Chubut Squatter, Think.
However l have noticed that Malvinense's English has vastly improved.
Maybe someone else is writing for him/her.
Ahhh, thx Isolde.
Monty69 had been telling Think off for making slimy advances - looked like a characteristic of his.
Now, the newly-eloquent Malvinese is doing the same thing.
I expect that these socially maladjusted trolls don't meet women often.
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