Friday, September 13th 2013 - 01:20 UTC

Spain now disputes Portugal’s Savage Islands EEZ before the UN

Spain has quietly lodged an official request with the United Nations to have Portugal’s southern-most territory, the Savage Islands, declared as rocks and not as islands, according to a report from the Gibraltar Chronicle.

The Savage Islands are located between Madeira and the Canary Islands

According to a piece in the Portugal news the demand issued by Madrid is aimed at reducing Portugal’s exclusive economic zone (EEZ), currently the largest of any European nation, and will allow Spanish vessels from the Canary Islands to venture closer to Madeira.

Measuring a mere 2.73 square kilometres or 20 hectares, although its highest point is 165 metres high, the Savage Islands are at the centre of an international dispute which Madrid has decided to take to the highest international level and seek a UN resolution.

The islands are located between Madeira and the Canary Islands, allowing Portugal’s territorial waters to reach within 40 nautical miles of the Spanish territory. In terms of distance, the Savage Islands are substantially closer to the Canaries than they are to Madeira.

These islands have been a Portuguese territory since 1438, the same year that a human being first set foot on Madeira, unlike the Canary Islands which was colonised by the Spanish.

They are inhabited only by a small team of wardens from the Madeira Nature Park, though the Portuguese navy has seized a series of Spanish fishing vessels over the years for breaching territorial borders.

Meanwhile, the town of Olivença, located south of Elvas in the Alentejo and Badajoz across the border, has been the centre of a dispute that has lasted two centuries.

The Portuguese Defence Force’s Geographical Institute (IGE) has repeatedly declined to draw the geographical line between Portugal and Spain where this town is situated, leaving a huge void along the border which divides the two countries.

The geographical omission by the Defence Force has been justified by the fact that Olivença is a Portuguese territory occupied by the Spanish and no lines will be drawn until Portugal wins the battle the Vienna Treaty said it had in 1817. It was then that Spain’s forces, backed by Napoleon were defeated after an occupation which had lasted 16 years.

Vienna thereby cancelled the Badajoz Treaty in 1801 which saw Portugal surrender Olivença to Spain and Napoleonic forces ending more than 500 years of Portugal rule, after it was founded in 1297.

Despite diplomatic scurries, the United Nations is only expected to issue a verdict on the Savage Islands in 2015, while the issue of Olivença is set to remain undecided.
 

39 comments Feed

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1 lsolde (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 04:52 am Report abuse
Wouldn't surprise me if Spain put in a “claim”for southern France.
Well its geologically joined to them & maybe they“inherited”it from the Roman Empire.
2 Idlehands (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 04:56 am Report abuse
It's hard to explain how Spanish speaking nations lash out at those able to help when they are having a crisis. Spain seems to want to annoy everyone at the moment.
3 Brasileiro (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 07:41 am Report abuse
Olivença was, is and always will be Portuguese. Spain is an intruder!!!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzfnmFgyb8A&list=FLmXPTu1f8AdGlizWNiASx2A&index=266
4 Conqueror (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 09:30 am Report abuse
“On February 15, 1938, the Permanent Commission of International Maritime Law declared Portugal as the legitimate sovereign over the islands on February 15, legally settling the sovereignty questions for good.”

But it isn't the sovereignty of the islands, is it? Are they islands or are they rocks?

Look at this: “Spain objects on the basis that the Savage Islands do not have a separate continental shelf, maintaining that the border should consist on an equidistant line drawn halfway between Madeira and the Canaries.” Islands have their own “continental shelf”. Part of the problem with argieland's claim that the Falklands are on the argentine “continental shelf”. But it's difficult to see how something with a land area of 1.05 square miles can be just a rock. Isn't a rock something that just pokes above the water? How many “rocks” have a “high point” 535 feet above sea level? In the background it's worth noting that Spanish poachers have been arrested many times for illegal fishing in Portuguese waters. We know all about Spanish fish poachers! Why do the Spanish reckon that, if there's water, they can fish in it? Spanish imperialism! Spanish poachers have even threatened Portuguese officials with weapons on the islands! That led to the deployment of Portuguese marines. Best thing for Portugal? Sink anything Spanish in your EEZ. If such vessels never get “home”, it should send the right signals. Merlin helicopters (AgustaWestland AW101), that the Portuguese Air Force already has, are excellent for launching missiles, homing torpedoes, depth charges. Plenty of room for machine guns as well!
5 Condorito (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 10:36 am Report abuse
The Spanish do a great job of ensuring that they sabotage their stated aims by acting in a way that makes those closest to them distrust them. [Not dissimilar to Argentina]

Then they talk about an alliance of convenience with Argentina on the FI/Gib issue, the very country they are pursuing for an unpaid $10B bar bill.

It is not really joined up policy is it. They are coming a close second to CFK in the headless chicken race.
6 GeoffWard2 (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 11:40 am Report abuse
'... Islands have their own “continental shelf”' Conq #4

So, the UK becomes a rock, and Rockall becomes an island ... seems to me this line of argument is worth rockall.
....

All Brasilians know (or should know) that these islands were Portuguese since before white faces appeared in the Americas.
7 Brasileiro (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 11:48 am Report abuse
Long live Portugal!

Your fight is mine!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVY2GNfKD7E&list=FLmXPTu1f8AdGlizWNiASx2A
8 GeoffWard2 (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 12:18 pm Report abuse
Nice link, Bras.;

but when they said “Your fight is mine” in the Spanish Civil War, they really meant it; the International Brigades, etc, really DID fight and die.

Be careful for what you wish, we have enough 'interesting times' of our own.
9 Brasileiro (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 12:25 pm Report abuse
@ Geoff

Thank you and sorry, advisor.
10 Conqueror (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 12:27 pm Report abuse
@6 Then you should read UNCLOS III. Improve your education! If any.
11 Brasileiro (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 12:34 pm Report abuse
Conqueror is a comedian, idiot too!
12 Condorito (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 01:15 pm Report abuse
The Spanish are going to have to explain why they have been calling these islands “Islas Salvajes” for centuries if they are only rocks.
13 Think (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 01:32 pm Report abuse
TWIMC......

“Islands” or “Rocks”, I “Think” that this MercoPress article about the “Savage Islands” would be best served with an authentic picture of the aforementioned islands.....

(The above picture is certainly NOT from the “Savage Islands”)
14 A_Voice (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 01:35 pm Report abuse
The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea states, “Rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf.”
Does it sustain the wardens or are they sustained by supplies.... even so no economic life.
15 Monkeymagic (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 01:52 pm Report abuse
Lol...A-hole

What a ridiculous comment...

So, if the wardens decided to grow a few veggies, and eat the local bird life...rather than ship in their favourite delicacies...the status dispute would be over.

Tell me, are you sustained by supplies from other countries or is everything you eat from whichever country you are pretending to be from this week?

The Savage Islands could, and have sustained human habitation...they are islands.

please keep your hilarious bullshit coming though, the EEz of Portugal should change because the scientific wardens ship in a few cans of Coke...pmsl
16 A_Voice (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 02:04 pm Report abuse
Is it stupid or are you stupid fucking monkey?.....

”The self-sustaining status of the islands is disputed by Spain.
Their habitability determines whether they should be seen as islands or rocks,☚ which has strong consequences for the definition of the southernmost border of the Portuguese EEZ (with Spain), currently under evaluation by the United Nations' Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf.”

Yep a stupis monkey alrighty!
17 Brasileiro (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 02:15 pm Report abuse
Spain please, leave in peace Portugal. Fight against us, Brazilians!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QZ5epCDhWE
18 A_Voice (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 02:29 pm Report abuse
17
“The Final Countdown” .....by that well known Brazilian/ Swedish band..... “Europe”
:-)))))
19 Brasileiro (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 02:32 pm Report abuse
Asim es la muerte!

Thanks
20 Briton (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 02:35 pm Report abuse
We mentioned this, the other day, about Spain,
She is in such a mess and going down faster than the belgrano,

So she has decided to take that advice that CFK is telling everyone,
And is going to claim everything it can, in the hope someone may pay them to shut up,

, cities of Ceuta and Melilla, Spanish exclaves located on the northern coast of Africa,
the Balearic Islands and the Canary Islands

This is a list of the main islands of Spain.

• Balearic Islands
o Majorca
o Minorca
o Ibiza
o Formentera
o Cabrera
o Tremac
o And several smaller islands including Illa dels Conills (Conejera), Dragonera, Illa des Penjats, S'Espalmador and Es Vedra
• Canary Islands
o Gran Canaria
o Tenerife
o La Palma
o Lanzarote
o Fuerteventura
o La Gomera
o El Hierro
o And the two small islands of Alegranza and Graciosa, plus the tiny islet of Lobos
• Islands in the Strait of Gibraltar
o Island of Alborán, which belongs to the province or Almería
o The small archipelago of the Chafarinas islands, one of the so-called Plazas Menores de Soberanía, close to the Morocco coast line
o Peñón de Alhucemas, also a Plaza Menor de Soberanía
o Spain also claims the sovereignty over the islet of Perejil
• And some coastal islands, belonging to provinces of mainland Spain such as
o Islas Cíes in the province of Pontevedra in Galicia
o Isla de Arosa in Galicia
o Isla de Ons in Galicia
o Isla de Tarifa, the southernmost point of Western Europe
o Tabarca off the coast of Alicante, Spain's smallest inhabited island
o Columbretes Islands
o Illes Medes off the Costa Brava
• Guadalquivir river
o Isla de la Cartuja
• Bidasoa river
o Pheasant Island (Isla de los Faisanes), shared with France
o /////////////////////////
Territorial disputes of Spain”
Some settled, some not, but Spain did have a claim on a part of the united states..
C
• Ceuta
• Chafarinas Islands
• Couto Misto
D
• Disputed status of Gibraltar
• Disputed status of Olivenza
M
• Melilla
N
• Nadim al-Maghrebi
• Neutral Ground (Louisiana)
O
21 A_Voice (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 02:43 pm Report abuse
19
No ...that would be the “Final Curtain!”
22 Briton (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 02:49 pm Report abuse
We mentioned this, the other day, about Spain,
She is in such a mess and going down faster than the belgrano,

They really need to get their own house in order.

Territorial disputes of Spain”
Some settled, some not, but Spain did have a claim on a part of the united states..
• Ceuta
• Chafarinas Islands
• Couto Misto
• Disputed status of Gibraltar
• Disputed status of Olivenza
• Melilla
• Nadim al-Maghrebi
• Neutral Ground (Louisiana)
• Olivenza
• Peñón de Alhucemas
.
• Perejil Island
• Perejil Island crisis
• Places of sovereignty (Spain)
• Táliga

o en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain
• And they complain about the British possessions. B.O.T.
Spanish Empire
And she would like to re-claim all this,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Empire
IF SHE COULD ….

.
23 GeoffWard2 (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 03:27 pm Report abuse
Offshore islands seem to be somewhat at risk of being taken over by mainland states. Sometimes it becomes fixed in history; sometimes the islands get taken over by a variety of mainland states. The 'British' have had much experience of this.

Occasionally the island attacks and takes over for a time swathes of the mainland ... English kings liked doing this.

But the most successful way was to marry off your surplus princes (or kings) to surplus princesses (or queens) on the other side of the water. The Europeans have been stabilising their states this way for centuries.

With this in mind, would anybody on the Islands sacrifice themselves by marrying a Kirchner?
24 Briton (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 03:29 pm Report abuse
mmmmmmmmmmmm nope..lol
25 lsolde (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 05:13 pm Report abuse
@23 Geoff Ward2,
Well Geoff, you first brought it to everyone's attention so we expect you to set the example. lol.
l suppose you'll have to be VERY drunk on your wedding night.
26 Brasileiro (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 05:51 pm Report abuse
Geoff, brother, I understand you, and whatever you say, always be on your side, I love geoff, and drinking help me be like you, i want to always be drunk.

Long live GeoffWard2!
27 rupertbrooks0 (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 09:30 pm Report abuse
23 GeoffWard2 (#)

Strange you should make such an excellent suggestion. After the “Conquest of the Desert” the first Governor of the new province of Santa Cruz; a certain Carlos Maria Moyano, a friend of Francisco Moreno (the explorer), eager to populate his new realm, travelled frequently to the Falkland’s to encourage the local sheep barons to migrate to Patagonia. He ended up marrying a local Falklands girl, Ethel Turner.

At this time the town of Rio Gallegos (founded 1885) was essentially English (or Falkland’s town) Everything apart from the few officials were English, as was the money, the sheep, the drinks, the banks and the men and woman. They even had an English pub: the White Elephant. Furthermore they even founded a club: The British Club of Rio Gallegos in 1911, which still exists today and retains the original snooker table, the only one in the whole of Patagonia. The historic British connection in the region is retained in the many British names and faces of the people.

Of course neither Ethel nor Carlos were Royal Prince or Princesses so not Even Presdident Kirchner can claim the Islands of the Falklands as a royal dowery
28 Brasileiro (#) Sep 13th, 2013 - 09:56 pm Report abuse
For you Mister Rupert

www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzdOlC8_Jec&list=FLmXPTu1f8AdGlizWNiASx2A
29 rupertbrooks0 (#) Sep 14th, 2013 - 12:59 am Report abuse
Thanks Mr Brasileiro

My fav Pink Floyd song. I wish I was here to. Hackney is grey and wet today.
30 Britworker (#) Sep 14th, 2013 - 05:06 am Report abuse
I can see a British/Portuguese alliance coming on, won't be the first time in history this has happened.
31 GeoffWard2 (#) Sep 14th, 2013 - 05:57 am Report abuse
Floyd version is MUCH better.
Seek out Clare Torry's *amazing* vocals on Great Gig in the Sky.

Also off-topic:
While on this YouTube site I spotted a video-posting of everybody's memories of Rio 2008, and later at Rocina.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOYOKM8b8K4&list=FLmXPTu1f8AdGlizWNiASx2A

The favelas are identical all over Brasil, and point up the problems the military police and BOPE have in rooting out the (drug)gangs. When you have seen this a few times you know to stay out of the many 'controlled' areas.
32 rupertbrooks0 (#) Sep 14th, 2013 - 08:15 am Report abuse
Agreed, the Pink Floyd original is much better, more hauntingly poignant and Dave Gilmour signs it so well. . Was never a great fan of the Floyd, or Fink Plyod as we used to call them, but I did/do like “wIsh you were here”

Anyone ever been to Rio Gallegos?
33 A_Voice (#) Sep 14th, 2013 - 08:33 am Report abuse
Excuse me for interrupting the music club...but who gives a crap about Spain or Portugal...both are just tourist resorts! As long as it doesn't interrupt their ability to wait on tables...keep the beer flowing...not rip you off too much.
Then they can squabble all they like...two greasy waiters fighting over a tip!
34 rupertbrooks0 (#) Sep 14th, 2013 - 09:22 am Report abuse
33 A_Voice

I think thats a bit harsh. I always found Spain a very cultured place, Madrid is a wonderful city with some of the worlds great art galleries. True it does seem a rather petty squabble, but each is going through a tough time and I think the stress is begining to tell on their respective governments.
35 lsolde (#) Sep 14th, 2013 - 03:06 pm Report abuse
@33 A_Voice,
What a stirring Philistine you are.
@32 rupertbrooks0,
Pray continue evaluating the music, rupert,l am interested.
lgnore sr Think's understudy.
merci
36 rupertbrooks0 (#) Sep 14th, 2013 - 08:07 pm Report abuse
35 lsolde

Thanks. Our Brazilian friend has a taste for combining Pink Floyd with Gregorian chant. I prefer to stick with the unadulterated originals. Are you familiar with Thomas Tallis? And his 40 part motet “Spem in Alium”? Try

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Cn7ZW8ts3Y

Legend has it that is was composed to celebrate Queen Elizabeths 40th birthday in 1573. I heard the piece live in St Alfrege’s church in Greenwich, where Thomas Tallis is buried. I think the word ethereal was invented to describe it. Enjoy.
37 lsolde (#) Sep 15th, 2013 - 06:07 am Report abuse
@36 rupertbrooks0,
l have an old LP record called “Greensleeves” with Thomas Tallis.
lts mainly old English folk music.
Very haunting music, but l like it.
38 Pete Bog (#) Sep 15th, 2013 - 11:06 am Report abuse
@23 Geoff
“With this in mind, would anybody on the Islands sacrifice themselves by marrying a Kirchner?”

CFK could get Maximo divorced, and a female Elephant Seal could be 'disguised' as a large lady and married to Maximo before he found out on his wedding night that his bride had rather fishy breath.

The Falklands could, through Queen Botox's Royal Command, gain Rio Gallegos or Ushuaia, and Prince William could grant all the Falkland Islands minefield areas to Argentina.
39 rupertbrooks0 (#) Sep 15th, 2013 - 12:06 pm Report abuse
38 Pete Bog

Well indeed. The town of Ushuaia was founded by British Christian missionaries in the 1860’s. The first house ever constructed in Ushuaia was built by the Reverend Thomas Bridges in 1873 (an English emigrant to the Falklands) who arrived there at least 10 years before the Argentines. He was later made an honorary Argentine citizen and was granted land; Estancia Harberton, which is still there and is an Argentine historic monument.

Perhaps the Falklands could make a claim of sovereignty on the area.

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