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Montevideo, November 21st 2018 - 18:40 UTC
An Argentine federal judge ruled Wednesday that the mandate of President-elect Mauricio Macri is to begin at midnight, though he will not officially be head of state until he takes the oath of office 12 hours later. Read full article
Unbelievable! Oh… I dont know though.. Consistent childish behavoir :-)
Yes, as with the refusal to hand over the official CasaRosadaAR Twitter account that I posted about in another thread. It is not CFK's twitter account but the official account of the government of Argentina, so her changing the name is ridiculous.
#CFKVerguenzaMundial is now trending.
OK, mandate begins at midnight, head of state begins 12 hours later.
How is this ruling, or precautionary measure, related to where the investiture ceremony end up taking place? I know they each want it to happen in a different place.
I'm not able to follow this article at all, can somebody straighten me out?
How to Behave Like a Petulant 14-Year-Old for 40 Years, by Cristina Fernández de Kirchner.
Thank you for your post.
OK, Macri's mandate begins at midnight, (and his term shall last until exactly 4 years later), but he is not 'officially' President until 'sworn-in' at 10:00.
Slightly confusing, I admit, but there it is.
The Country can not be without a President, even for 12 hours, just in case something of huge magnitude should happen.
So the Head of The Senate will temporarily step-in, as confirmed by the Judge.
This is all Kristina's doing, all silly game-playing because she can't bear to relinquish power.
The silly, self-entitled little madam... but there it is.
I recently talked about this in another thread stating there is no power vacuum and also listing the leader of the Senate as a possible acting head of state.
Bushpilot, the whole saga began as CFK was attempting to dictate the ceremony for handing over of the presidential baton and sash. Mere symbols of power.
The actual swearing in ceremony must take place in Congress. This is when Macri officially becomes the Argentinean president. As he will be president, he won't have to follow the dictates of the previous president. This is a logical part of a democracy where the executive or legislative cannot limit a future officer holder from making the same decision.
So Macri was always in control of where and when he was to receive the baton and sash. But CFK dug her heels in.
If there is one thing we can be thankful for, it is CFK's constant desire to be in control and her intolerance of dissent that has now clarified the entire process more cleary.
Future Argentinean presidents will now be operating under clearer and more explicit conditions than Macri is.
Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if the swearing in ceremony in Congress is moved to midnight in the future to minimise potential constitutional issues. The fact the country hasn't had to deal with this issue is because the peaceful transfer of power (outside of crisis) to a president from a different party is so rare.
The US once had a similar problem and rectified it with the 20th Amendment. There, their president leaves office at 11.59am and 59 seconds and the president-elect takes office at 12.00pm and 00 seconds. The oath or affirmation is only needed before a president can execute any duties. But he/she is still president at that exact moment.
Macri is president at midnight but won't be able to execute the office until he is sworn in 12 hours later.
Thank you Cristina.
Thank You for the more in-depth explanation.
Your statement, The actual swearing in ceremony must take place in Congress. is correct.
However, previous Presidents have taken the Baton/Sash in the La Casa Rosada and this is exactly the confusion that CFK is trying to exploit, by confusing the two.
The constitution establishes that the incoming president’s swearing-in take place in Congress, but does not specify where ceremonial items such as batons or sashes should be handed over.
While Fernandez received the baton and sash in Congress, other new presidents have received them at the Casa Rosada.
It is traditional that the incoming President bows to receive the Sash from the outgoing one.
Quite simply CFK wished to denigrate Macri by putting him in a subservient whilst her supporters jeered and heckled, in Congress. Something not possible in La Casa Rosada.
So she has thrown her rattle out of the pram and fucked off home in an almighty sulk.
Macri wins again.
(no wonder bushpilot is confused, all this far from normal behaviour in mature democracies)
Well I think we all agree she is Argentina's worst president ever.
Horrible old bitch right to the end.
Hopefully there is a swarm of prosecutors going after her and her cronies.
The baton and sash are quite meaningless. They are nothing more than decoration. They do not denote power nor does the president need them to wield power. They will look great in his official portrait and that is all.
Indeed, while I am a staunch monarchist, I find these baubles quite jarring for a republic. Other than a regal coronation, the installation of our executive, the Governor-General and the Prime Minister, is quite a plain affair. Look at any official portraits going back 50 years and they are usually just wear a suit without decoration.
CFK not attending any of these events will merely be a footnote in history eventually and will not elevate her to some tragic heroine. She was the president and then wasn't. There is nothing more to it than that. Hundreds of countries have done this thousands of times without drama.
However Argentina's democracy is not as deeply rooted as it is in other countries so small spats such as this could be considered growing pains.
As I said, she has done Argentina a great service by clarifying the law on succession and transfer of power. It wasn't what she was aiming or hoping for but she has actually strengthened Macri's mandate because there will now be no dispute over his inauguration.
Oh.... how's that..... it's midnight in BsAs so CFK is no longer president.
May I be the first to welcome President Macri!
@6 Skip, Thank you.
I think I get it now. The court ruled Macri will be the president.
Therefore everyone can assume he is the one who decides where the baton and sash ceremony takes place. And CFK will not be the president as of midnight the night before.
About this inauguration ceremony that CFK decided not to attend. Is that the investiture ceremony where the baton and sash are handed over, or something else?
Is the investiture ceremony the swearing in at congr
You seem to have been cutoff so hopefully this helps you complete your comment.
However, CFK is now no longer president. Macri is currently the president of Argentina.
However he cannot exercise any executive power until he is sworn in in front of Congress. This is planned for midday. He must be sworn in in front of Congress, it is in the constitution and he has no ability to alter the location.
CFK is no longer needed to do anything for Macri to take office. Her job and time is finished and she can leave.
She currently (as of 30 minutes ago) holds no office within Argentina.
The baton and sash are unimportant. They are not mentioned in the constitution and are merely a ceremony that places no legal condition on the new president. He could go his entire tenure without ever receiving this items and he would not be any less the president than before.
One hour now, Congratulations, Mr. President.
oh, and Ding Dong, the Witch is Dead!!”
Skip, I'd still be properly confused by this article without your help, thanks.
I see what you mean that the baton and sash have no legal/constitutional standing.
The article seems to say that Cambiemos asked for the ruling because they wanted clarification on the Investiture Ceremony (which I might wrongly be assuming is the baton and sash ceremony). From a paragraph above:
The measure was requested by Cambiemos to resolve the open feud between the outgoing and incoming governments over where the investiture ceremony - and the passing on of the symbols of power, namely the presidential sash and baton - would take place.
The ruling it seems indirectly settled the Investiture Dispute, by directly settling a more important constitutional question of transfer of office.
Sorry I'm so confused by this one. It is probably a good thing CFK won't be elected to a third term. But she was quite crazy down to the last minute of her term.
The people have spoken. The sons-of-bitches.
12 Troy Tempest
“Ding Dong, the Witch is Dead!!”
Bahhhh! Beat me to it!
anyhoo... here's a link for some light entertainment...
Please, no disrespectful comments about the Argentine Military featuring in said video....
rottingroadkill: Pay your debts.
Macri and Pratt-Gay first needed to see if there is any money left....
You have it exact!
There was never any doubt nor any disagreement on the location of the oath:
Section 93.- On assuming office, the President and Vice-President shall take oath before the President of the Senate and before Congress assembled, respecting their religious beliefs, to: ”perform with loyalty and patriotism the office of President (or Vice-President) of the Nation, and to faithfully observe the Constitution of the Argentine Nation, and to cause it to be observed.
It does not require a quorom or the previous president to be present.
There is nothing in the constitution about the baton and sash.
It was merely CFK grandstanding and wanting to belittle Macri by making him bow before her in front of a chamber dominated by Victory Front members. By holding it in the Casa Rosada without such a biased audience, CFK would have been the one on the outer and in the minority.
The entire episode is extremely facile and juvenile and not worthy of any head of state, either incoming or outgoing. CFK has belittle the office of presidency without any real return to her. She has already given Macri ammunition to use when difficulties are found in initially governing as her actions can be construed as obstructionism.
When Macri leaves office, whether in 4 or 8 years, he will be much more regal and mature about the transfer of power. Comparisons will be made with CFK's departure and they won't be favourable to her.
Did you see my link on another thread about this?
Maduro’s Sisters Hold Secret Meeting with Kirchner in Buenos Aires
- Clarín Journalist Reveals Private Encounter with Outgoing Argentinean President
“On Friday, Maduro’s two sisters arrived [in Buenos Aires]. They visited Kirchner in Olivos [her residency] and left on Saturday in the Embraer Conviasa YV 3016 [plane]. They were carrying ‘things,’” Bracesco wrote.
The journalist, who writes for Clarín newspaper and is very active on social media, added that these two women did not go through customs, neither as they entered the country nor as they left.
I haven't heard much more about it, although I have asked around. All very clandestine, it seems.
Meanwhile in Mendoza,
Yet another peaceful transfer of power between governors of different parties.
Everyone in Argentina knows Mendoza has had the best history of good governors, alternation of power between parties, and has never had caudillos.
And one day it will be so common place in your country that you won't even feel the need to remark on it.
That doesn't seem to have stopped you on remarking how amazing Ozzer is. I guess amazing over there isn't as common place as you have claimed...
Oh, I agree Australia is amazing.
#20 Nostrils are you still taking that angle of trying to convince people that you are in Mendoza? I told you, hung up your skates the ice melted.
Have you ever found a google hit to ID that intersection of the farmers striking? I suggest you visit the country your parents originally immigrated from.
Nostrils capitulation can be quite a liberating experience. And read carefully Tobi, not all of us who post here are a jingoist. So get your shit together and go visit Argentina......even the USA. Either country is not like what a two week tourist will tell you or a blogger from here who never seen either posts about. Like every country on this planet, both have good and bad. Go visit either country Tobi.
Tobi? Tobi Pratt? He does make great curtains.
Travel is unnecesary in the age of the internet. Multibillion transactions are now done between two CEOs without each other ever meeting. If it works for that, it certainly works to just do some google imaging or read the latest Reuters wire to see what a country like Ozzer or NorthAmoland is like.
Apples and oranges tobi. What you're saying is that sex is also not needed when you have two hands.
Travel is unnecesary in the age of the internet.
That by far is the saddest statement a human being can possibly EVER utter. Oh......and you spelled unnecessary incorrectly.
Two CEO's are saying the most valuable thing anyone possesses....time. However, when humans take take they travel to experience (at least the enlightened) diversity. That statement actually made me feel sorry and pity on you to think so .....cloistered.
Do you think a picture of the pyramids is the same as being in them?
Do you think an IMAX of climbing Everest is the same as standing on it's peak?
Do you think watching a porn video and jerking off is the same as touching the soft, smooth and warm flesh of a women.......and not being able to inhale her scent?
You really have no live Tobi. Are you that poor that you must justify not being able to travel as .....unnecessary?
You have my condolences regardless whether you care or want them because of your apathy.
No, Through, your hyperbole on Multibillion transactions are now done between two CEOs without each other ever meeting is just more chamullo. Or perhaps you'd like to cite an example?
My life is not a business and my experiences are not quantifiable as a commercial transaction.
Nostrils, if you choose to experience life through such a narrow lense as other people's experiences then it is only you that is restricted. I, on the other hand, realise how valuable my life is and how short. I also know that life isn't anything but a series of experiences that change and shape you until you die.
I look forward to visiting Argentina one day. I prefer to experience it with my own eyes than through the dull ones you provide.
And those experiences are based on human interaction, good or bad. However nostrils seems to think little of humanity.
As an American Skip, I can assure you that you will enjoy the visit despite what others may have you believe. Most of the people are generally respectful. I would suggest to find an Argentine friend and get to their Sunday assado. Like an America 4th cookout....every Sunday. Yeah, Tobi, you can't experience assado over the internet.
I let the Invisible Hand decide people's actions.
Ultimately, every decision you make is based on how much money it makes you (making money in this case also applies to losing as little as possible in expenses)
So, you two can do as you please. I have never here stated someone can't do something else.
You are as irrelevant as this thread is, now
Moderator please close this thread after you ban Semper Incontinentia.
#19 Ilsen...a few years ago Chavez met with cfk in her hotel in Santa Cruz...no public announcements of what they talked about. It was all a big secret. He came in, stayed a few days, and then left. Very cozy...
#32 Nostrils de Tobi, are you talking to me? Please, substantiate that statement if you can.
34 Mendoza Canadian
Don't forget the suitcase full of Chavista U$ cash sent to Kristina...
'Chávez and the Cash-Filled Suitcase - Wednesday, Sept. 03, 2008'
Sitting in a Florida steakhouse a year ago this month , millionaire Venezuelan oilman Frank Duran allegedly gave his friend Guido Antonini Wilson a dark warning. A moment might come, Duran said, when nobody can save Antonini's skin.
Antonini, a Venezuelan businessman with U.S. citizenship, was indeed in a jam. A month earlier, he'd arrived in Buenos Aires on a chartered flight with Argentine energy officials and executives of Venezuela's state-run oil company, Petroleos de Venezuela (PDVSA). Argentine customs agents then caught him with a suitcase stuffed with $800,000 in cash. Antonini was allowed to return to the U.S. — but it seemed the entire hemisphere wanted to know if he'd been carrying the money for Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez as some sort of bribe for the Argentine government.
Today, however, it's Duran whose legal skin that needs saving. Last December he and four other men, three Venezuelans and an Uruguayan, were charged in Miami with failing to register as foreign government agents. U.S. prosecutors say the men, at the behest of high-level Venezuelan government officials, cajoled and even threatened Antonini to keep mum about the real purpose of all that cash: an illegal contribution from Venezuela to the presidential campaign of then Argentine Senator and First Lady Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner, a Chavez ally. One of the men, Moises Maionica, pleaded guilty in January; one is at large and another — Carlos Kauffman, a close Duran pal — pleaded guilty in March, leaving Duran all but alone to face trial in Miami that began this week.
There is no mention that the $800,000 in cash was also returned...
No noble causes here - the SA Brotherhood and Bolivarian Revolution was bankrolled in each country by Chavez. Is that right?
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