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Holyrood will formally request Wednesday Westminster authority to hold a second independence referendum

Monday, March 20th 2017 - 08:31 UTC
Full article 20 comments

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon is to warn Prime Minister Theresa May she will “shatter beyond repair” the notion that the UK is a partnership of equals if she turns down a request from the Scottish Parliament to hold a second independence referendum. Read full article


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  • Idlehands

    The UK has never been a “union of equals” Everyone in the UK is equal under the law but to slice off a population of 5m and claim it is equal to the other 60m is ludicrous. More people live in London than they do in Scotland.

    Mar 20th, 2017 - 08:46 am - Link - Report abuse -6
  • The Voice

    Background whining from the drone. Just like the bagpipes ;-)

    Mar 20th, 2017 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Clyde15

    It should be equal in opportunities. Is it ?

    Mar 20th, 2017 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    Depends what you mean by opportunities.

    We're all equally free to move to London and live in a shoebox in order to get a good job, I suppose.

    Mar 20th, 2017 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Voice

    Stupid mistake by May denying a vote before it had been put to the Scottish Parliament...
    Now they will pass it automatically on principle...
    Also the Scottish Green Party have no mandate because they said they needed a million signatures on a petition before they would trigger a vote...

    Throw it back as a curve ball May...tell the SNP they can have a referendum if the SNP have a mandate for it by calling a Scottish General Election to see if they do have a mandate...
    Sturgeon would crap herself...

    Mar 20th, 2017 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Marcelo Kohen

    Interesting: Scotland needs authorization to hold a referendum. Ah yes, they are not holders of the right of peoples to self-determination, as enshrined in international law...

    Mar 20th, 2017 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Islander1

    MK above Theresa May has NOT refused permission- all she has said - Its a stupid time to hold it - common sense is wait until AFTER Brexit Terms all agreed and then the People of Scotland can see and decide which option suits them- eg about 2020.

    A- Leave the Union and Europe - and try to get back into Europe at a later date(Scotand will be leaving the EU anyway through Brexit and has to then reapply in their own independent name).
    Loose ALL freetrade with the rest of the UK and face border and passport and tarifff controls etc.

    b-Stay in the Union and leave the EU and be part of whatever trade/financial deal is arranged with the EU and in time with other nations.

    Scotland cannot escape going out of the EU-The EU has made that crystal clear! The EU has also made it clear that there are terms on rejoining - taking on the Euro as your currency being one of them.Most likely Spain will also vote against Scotland joining because of their internal succession problems.

    Mar 20th, 2017 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • bushpilot

    May should give it to them. Let 'em make a hasty, uninformed decision.

    Holding off until after Brexit is doing them a tremendous service allowing them make a much more informed decision. They don't deserve that service.

    If Scotland does leave the UK, the EU would likely fasttrack them back into the EU.

    Having Scotland in the EU would save those leftist animal EU bureaucrats a lot of face.

    France would love to embarrass the UK like this, so they too would support a quick reentry into the EU.

    The EU doesn't care too much about any protocols they have put in place.

    And the EU would support that poor country forever. The EU loves handing out cash.

    Mar 20th, 2017 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse -8
  • Clyde15

    Bush pilot or jungle bunny
    Apart from your obvious dislike of the Scots, why don't they deserve to make an informed decision. Is it because England made a totally uninformed decision on the Brexit referendum?
    Just because you lot screwed it, you want us to be equally dumb !

    Mar 20th, 2017 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • bushpilot


    I didn't mean it so personally, my obvious dislike is for any group of people that would want to be a part of the EU in its current Federalist/Socialist system, not only your people.

    People who actually want to be part of the EU are the ones I view as “dumb”, and not the ones who want to stay away from it.

    Your people should make an informed decision, of course. But an informed decision would happen after the Brexit negotiations, and after Brexit itself.

    A group of people is absolutely entitled to leave any union they enter. It's a little ironic that when you want to do that, it is “smart”, but when other peoples in the UK want to do that, it is “dumb”.

    That being said, your people already debated this deeply important question recently. It is your people's right, but you can't just put the other people you had a union with through this every other Sunday.

    Many of your own people might not want to go through this again so soon either. You would be in a position to gauge that, but not me.

    Also, if your people deserve to make an informed decision, and they do, why is Sturgeon trying to force them into making an early and uninformed decision? If you make that decision before Brexit pans out, you will have made an uninformed decision, and, you will deserve it.

    That is what I was meaning with my last post.

    I want to ask about something else you said:

    “Is it because England made a totally uninformed decision on the Brexit referendum?”

    A 100% totally uninformed decision? Those politicians banged on for months with those Leave and Remain campaigns!

    Was it just the majority that voted to leave that, after those months of loud campaigning, came out of it with not one shred of good information and thinking?

    It just doesn't seem likely that, after all that campaigning from both sides, their final opinion on what they thought was best for the UK had not an ounce of foundation under it.

    Mar 20th, 2017 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse -6
  • DemonTree

    So you dislike 48% of the voters in the referendum, including me and my friends? Good to know.

    And given that both the Leave and Remain campaigns were full of exaggerations and over-the-top scare stories, while being distinctly short of facts, I think it's fair to say that NO ONE made a well-informed choice. It scares me that such a drastic and irreversible decision was made based on those campaigns.

    Mar 20th, 2017 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Clyde15

    The leave people conned the public about vast amounts of money paid into the EU that would now be available to shore up the NHS. Oh, really ? Not much sign of THAT happening.

    Mar 21st, 2017 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • ElaineB

    @DT and Clyde15

    You both make excellent points. It is such a shame that fear and nationalist campaigns were run instead of giving good and honest facts. The majority of old people living abroad that voted for Brexit are now experiencing much reduced incomes because of the falling pound and that is likely to fall even further. Some may even be kicked out of EU countries and I doubt they could get back into the UK property market.

    If we are so silly as to stop EU workers in our NHS the system would shut down. It is such a shame that all the benefits of being part of a large free market was not explained to people. Instead we had people imagining some non-existent glory days of the British Empire. I liken it to the way Enrique talks about his version of Argentina - it is a mythical country that doesn't exist in reality.

    Whilst I have no doubt the UK will survive as a rich nation I think the days of such high standards of living will not be something our children or children's children will experience. They will look at history and wonder why we threw it all away.

    Mar 21st, 2017 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Clyde15

    Probably correct but I don't think the EU is going to be any better than us.

    Mar 21st, 2017 - 05:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Don Alberto

    UKIP and the rest of the exit propagandists owe the people of the UK £353 million a week.

    Where have these thieves hidden all that money?

    Mar 22nd, 2017 - 12:58 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    Yeah, the Remain campaign was mostly fear mongering about the economy and didn't explain the benefits of the EU and why we might want a more united Europe. And the Leave campaign was mostly fear mongering about immigration and had no coherent plan for how we would survive outside the EU, something that has come back to bite us since.

    I don't know how well the EU is going to do after Brexit, but I guess that is up to them. The EU has plenty of problems, it will depend if they can pull together and overcome them or not. I don't think any other countries want to leave though.

    And for the UK, I think the signs are not good, because the people who voted for Brexit say they want to trade with the rest of the world, but in practice object to the kind of compromises that are necessary for trade deals. I can only hope that once Brexit is done the government starts doing what the country needs rather than trying to please the xenophobic element.

    Mar 22nd, 2017 - 08:33 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • ElaineB

    @ DT

    You make some good points again. The people who voted for Brexit seem to have forgotten that our wealth was built on trade and often with countries that were suspect. We don't have to like a country to trade with it, we just need to make money. Imagine if you ran a business but would only serve customers you liked, and the people you actually liked were few in numbers?

    Looking beyond the U.K., Brexit is not good on a global scale. A divided Europe, a madman in the White House threatening Germany, Sweden preparing for a Russian invasion (not imminent but they like to be prepared), North Korea threatening the mentally unstable Trump, we could be facing more than just a poorer future. Being part of the EU was so much more than a trade.

    Mar 22nd, 2017 - 09:08 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • The Voice

    Yeah, 'ain't it awful'. I'm OK, You're OK... The world's going to the dogs.

    Mar 22nd, 2017 - 10:51 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    I'm sure our government understand that we need to trade with as many countries as possible. At least it's not like America where the inmates are running the asylum. But I hope they also understand that they need to sort out the internal problems in the UK which they have been ignoring for far too long.

    Agree about the state of the world, until recently it seemed that things were gradually improving, now they are falling apart. Trollboy's blathering about WWIII no longer seems quite so funny.

    Mar 22nd, 2017 - 01:21 pm - Link - Report abuse -4
  • ElaineB

    @ DT

    The continuing divisiveness will do nothing to address the internal problems of the U.K. It is weakening us. In the way that the people wishing to remain have accepted it and now comment on how best to move forward, we have the Brexit voters acting paranoid and defensive as if it will be snatched away at any moment. It won't and they should change their stance because the Brexit has to be in the interests of everyone, not just the people who voted for it.

    Just as a talking point: If Scotland can have a second 'one in a generation' referendum two years later, could we have a second 'once in a generation referendum on the EU membership just two years later? My opinion is no to both.

    Mar 22nd, 2017 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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