MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentine teenagers travel to Falklands in high school graduation trip
Eighteen Argentine high school graduates from a Catholic institution in the port-town of Ensenada, next to La Plata should be arriving in the Falkland Islands this Saturday after connecting with the LATAM flight in Rio Gallegos. The trip was planned and agreed two years ago and since then they have been collecting funds with different activities to make possible a lifetime's dream. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesIt would be nice to think that they could come and meet the locals with an open mind however, the use of the word protagonist s slightly worrying.
Oct 14th, 2017 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse +2“It was born out of the necessity for the new generations to be protagonists...”
Keep the pot boiling !
I wonder if reality will dawn on them during their trip to the Falklands War exhibit - !1982 in our own words” - at the Museum in Stanley like it did for this lot (start watching at around 15 minutes 20 seconds in from the start of the video).
Oct 14th, 2017 - 10:36 am - Link - Report abuse +1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAtM1c1my0U
I personally think this is a wonderful opportunity for the islanders to show them a cordial welcome. Actions can wipe away years of Peronist propaganda.
Oct 14th, 2017 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Argie media version of the tale
Oct 14th, 2017 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse +5http://www.lanacion.com.ar/2072266-los-jovenes-que-eligieron-malvinas-como-viaje-de-egresados
There is a considerable difference between the two reports. In the English version here, the writer attempts to convince us that the purpose is to honour the Falklander civilians who died in the conflict (which BTW resulted from the argies violating the prohibitions about placing their command centre and armament within the civilian town). In the argie news, the purpose is more believable, and of course wholly political: they are going there to recognise the usurping argie combatants. In fact, the whole idea of the visit was a propaganda exercise fomented by former argie military.
@Chicureo
Oct 14th, 2017 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Probably, but will they? They don't exactly have a positive view of Argentine tourists in the islands.
This I mentioned to you, Demon Tree.
Oct 14th, 2017 - 10:19 pm - Link - Report abuse -5And why would that be, Demon Tree?
Oct 14th, 2017 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse +5Having flags waved under their noses perhaps, Malvinense 1833?
@RL
Oct 14th, 2017 - 11:51 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Trouble making and aggro and flags waved under their noses. Also people who come and sneakily make videos there, and the dumb ones who try to smuggle rifle shells onto flights.
But even so, these are just kids visiting. The Falklanders could make a good impression and gain their sympathy or not.
@Malvi
I did think of what you said, but weren't you talking about a group who visited last year?
This isn't described as a regular yearly visit but something this class decided to do instead of going to Bariloche, and it doesn't say they are planning to visit the school. Still there will be kids around so I guess they can try and talk to them.
They are there for a week, so we'll probably only have to wait 10 days or so before their 'stories' make a few Arg newspapers. Perhaps we'll find out something then.
Oct 15th, 2017 - 12:10 am - Link - Report abuse +6@ Hello Demon Tree: The group that I mentioned visited the islands this year, they are teenagers and I suppose they want to meet other young people of the same age so they go to schools.
Oct 15th, 2017 - 12:14 am - Link - Report abuse -5There are many young people who finish school and instead of traveling to places like Bariloche, Las Leñas, Cordoba, decide to travel to the Malvinas Islands.
@Malvi
Oct 15th, 2017 - 01:26 am - Link - Report abuse +3That probably makes it worse; I have heard from people who live in areas with lots of tourists how much they resent them for taking over their towns, beaches etc, even though the economy is usually dependent on them.
No one likes an endless flood of strangers, and Argentines who visit are the sort of nightmare tourists who literally think they own the place...
@malvado1833 “There are many young people who finish school and instead of traveling to places like Bariloche, Las Leñas, Cordoba, decide to travel to the Malvinas Islands.”
Oct 15th, 2017 - 01:48 am - Link - Report abuse +6No, not at all. There are only a handful of recent high-school graduates who visit the Falklands each year. If there actually were any significant number doing this, it would not be newsworthy. I seem to recall that in 2015 there were only about 500 or so Argentine nationals that visited the islands and the overwhelming majority were older adults. But I suppose we could add “visits by lots of school-age children” to the rather extensive list of myths that the Argentines maintain about the islands. Right up there with the imaginary 1982 sinking of the HMS Invincible.
England will return the Malvinas within 25 years.
Oct 15th, 2017 - 03:46 am - Link - Report abuse -8TWIMC...
Oct 15th, 2017 - 12:58 pm - Link - Report abuse -4The question them Kelpers should be asking themselves whilst giving those kids the cold shoulder...:
... How many lower middle class British teenagers would work hard for four years..., huddling some £2,000 each to travel to the Falkland/ Malvinas for their high school graduation trip...?
Two years, and we don't do high school graduation trips, or graduate from high school for that matter.
Oct 15th, 2017 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse +6Nor do we teach children about them at school, or show propaganda cartoons commissioned by the government on TV, or sing songs about them, or have signs at every border crossing or on the sides of buses, or streets named after them in every town, and we've never ever said they're more beloved than the whole rest of the country.
The Falklanders will just have to cope with this terrible neglect. ;)
Mr. DemonTree...
Oct 15th, 2017 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse -9You Brits don't do no high school graduation trips...?
YA MEAN..., the bell goes and that's it...? No speeches..., no farewells..., no party..., no banquet..., no graduation ceremony..., no diploma..., no trip..., no nothing...?
I didn't know that... They certainly do in the Continent... Well... That explains a hell lot...!
ANYHOW... you Engrish did all your above mentioned propaganda stuff..., and much, much more..., when the Krauts took some of your windblown islands during the roaring forties.. didn't you...?
The dinosaur wont admit it but its just a somewhat disgusting propaganda exercise where school pupils are being used as a propaganda tool for Malvinistic morons like Think to crow about. Many British kids travel to nearby countries, go on character forming Outward Bound courses or volunteer to do good works. £2000 is about 1/6 of a working class Argie salary and it will be mummy and daddy paying, kids of Cartoneros or native Indians wont be included. As all its neighbours understand well it isnt possible to have friendly relations with Argentina there are too many myopic brainwashed morons.
Oct 15th, 2017 - 02:40 pm - Link - Report abuse +2I do wonder what those kids expect to find.
Oct 15th, 2017 - 02:49 pm - Link - Report abuse +8They won't find any schools called Malvisomething. They wont see any road signs making claims to someone else's territory. Nothing much on the bus at all - maybe an advert for soap.
It'll all be a bit - foreign - to them.
Mr. Roger Lorton...
Oct 15th, 2017 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse -2You say...:
They wont see any road signs making claims to someone else's territory. Nothing much on the bus at all - maybe an advert for soap....
I say...:
An advert for soap...? Which brand...? This one...?...:
http://c7.alamy.com/comp/DGMTMK/sign-falkland-islands-british-to-the-core-with-a-coat-of-arms-and-DGMTMK.jpg
As usual, the dinosaur has no answers, just here to post tripe.
Oct 15th, 2017 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you review the locally told history behind the planning for this “post graduation trip” it may slowly dawn on you that it's another argie propaganda mission that in reality was promoted not by the pibes but by the adults with the usual political orientation. And those adults were former argie military. It's a nearly universal practice here in Argentina, for former “combatientes” to visit schools for the obligatory indoctrination.
Oct 15th, 2017 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Typical argie bus http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/argentina-message-550630.jpg
@Think
Oct 15th, 2017 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0At my high school we had some kind of ceremony where our parents were invited and they handed us our GCSE certificates. It was held in the school gym with blue plastic sheeting to protect the floor and was a very dull affair as far as I recall. There surely were speeches but I don't remember them.
More recently they have been holding 'graduation balls' after kids saw them on American TV and started demanding them.
I left school years ago, so I don't know if anything else has changed since then, but I have never heard of a graduation trip arranged by the school. What do they do about the kids who can't afford to go?
But what does it explain? And which islands are you talking about in WWII?
Mr. Roger Lorton...
Oct 15th, 2017 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse -5You say...:
They wont see any road signs making claims to someone else's territory. Nothing much on the bus at all - maybe an advert for soap....
I say...:
Or maybe this one...?... Plenty of these...:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vXTlA36VFEY/UxJMm4oLjCI/AAAAAAAAHR8/Cd_M-hVcPyQ/s1600/Falklands+-+Port+Stanley+-+British+to+the+core!+(crop+&+enhance).jpg
Mr. DemonTree...
The Channel ones... ?
Perhaps they should put up signs claiming Ushuaia?
Oct 15th, 2017 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse +1@Think
Since I wasn't around to see it, could you link some 'above mentioned propaganda stuff' about the Channel Islands?
Mr. DemonTree...
Oct 15th, 2017 - 04:45 pm - Link - Report abuse -5You could start with the (Dis)Information Minkstry “Anger Campaign”... or with this quite recent article...:
http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20161021-the-psychological-tricks-used-to-help-win-world-war-two
For more..., you will have to dig a bit through the Internet though...
The Engrish(Dis)Information Ministry airbrushed history nicely..., you are supposed to be the “Goodies”...ya know...?
For example.... Wasn't you the Engrish lad that never had heard about the Amritsar Massacre before in his life...?
Excerpt from the BBC: “Long Live the Red Army! Greetings from the British People”. After Soviet forces recaptured Stalingrad in February 1943, the MOI organised an evening of celebration at the Royal Albert Hall with readings from Laurence Olivier and John Gielgud. The government declared a “Red Army Day”, marked in British cities with pageants and music. “Joseph Stalin, who had previously been depicted in British propaganda as a deceitful and conniving dictator, was suddenly transmogrified into an avuncular ‘Uncle Joe’,”
Oct 15th, 2017 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse +1”...Those were days my friend, we thought they'd never end...”
How about we let those young minds leave with their own conclusions, but at least treat them with a cordial visit?
Nice link THINK.
Think
Oct 15th, 2017 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse +6You really are in a fairy tale land trying to compare the mythical “usurpation” of the Falklands with the Nazi invasion of the Channel Islands.
Thousands of Soviet POW's were systematically starved and worked to death by the Nazi occupation forces. Was this British propaganda ?
How does“British propaganda” re. the Falklands compare with the Argentine variety.
Kids brainwashed at school, road signs on the Arg.mainland and the supreme joke of Ushaia being the main administrative centre for the island. Even for you, this is stretching it.
As for British “atrocities” in the long-gone days of Empire. These are easy to find and not relevant to today's country.
Mr. Roger Lorton...
Oct 15th, 2017 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse -3You say...:
They won't find any schools called Malvisomething. They wont see any road signs making claims to someone else's territory. Nothing much on the bus at all - maybe an advert for soap.
I say...:
But they could meet June.., on her weekly shopping drive to the Chandlery...!
http://1gr.cz/fotky/idnes/13/032/org/ERT49cbaf_MBH01_FALKLANDS_REFERENDUM_0311_11.JPG
@Think
Oct 15th, 2017 - 07:44 pm - Link - Report abuse +1“Wasn't you the Engrish lad that never had heard about the Amritsar Massacre before in his life...?”
Do you imagine other people my age have heard any more? But I do know something about propaganda in WWII, even if I never learned any Indian history.
There was nothing on the Channel Islands in your link, and I seriously doubt the British government made a big display about them. I thought these quotes were interesting though:
“It was agreed that, with the exception of harmful and unbelievable truths, whenever possible the truth should be told.”
Much better than the WWI propaganda. And this is still relevant today:
”the document talks about appealing to the instinct of the masses rather than to their reason, and stresses the importance of building on slogans and the need for repetition.”
Also I found this on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYdmk3GP3iM
It's awesome that they were making things like this 50 years before the internet. :)
Mr. Roger Lorton...
Oct 15th, 2017 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse -2You say...:
They won't find any schools called Malvisomething. They wont see any road signs making claims to someone else's territory. Nothing much on the bus at all - maybe an advert for soap.
I say...:
Or they could be given one of these..., just to remind them..., y know...
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/03/10/article-2291206-188D2960000005DC-541_634x362.jpg
Lovely. I suppose all these were from the referendum?
Oct 15th, 2017 - 08:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mr. Roger Lorton...
Oct 15th, 2017 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse -4You say...:
They won't find any schools called Malvisomething. They wont see any road signs making claims to someone else's territory. Nothing much on the bus at all - maybe an advert for soap.
I say...:
Or they could get their Earl Grey served in those luuuuely Island mugs....
https://images.clarin.com/2012/02/07/HJf68D-CQl_930x525.jpg
You can see the Lambeth Walk live in the weekly marching display in Bariloche. Gives you a clue to the origin of most of the locals who are squatting out of reach of Nuremberg. They dont go as far as wearing coal scuttles though.
Oct 15th, 2017 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now that was funny Think. So desperate that you have to find the signs put up by local people. - not put up by the Government. Grasping at straws old man? Yup - looks like it.
Oct 15th, 2017 - 10:54 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Indeed, it's telling that the FIG don't feel the need to employ propaganda.
Enjoy, old man - http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/argentina-message-550630.jpg
Argie road signs, claiming the property of the neighbours
Oct 15th, 2017 - 11:02 pm - Link - Report abuse +5http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/03/02/article-2109404-11D4F01B000005DC-715_468x323.jpg
Discussion of the argie law requiring public conveyances show fraudulent argie claim to the Falklands:
“ Rige ley para que transporte público lleve la leyenda ”Las Islas Malvinas son argentinas“
La ley nacional que obliga a que todos los transportes públicos de pasajeros exhiban la leyenda ”Las Islas Malvinas son argentinas“ comenzó a regir a través de su publicación en el Boletín Oficial.La norma 27.023 establece en su artículo 1° que ”todos los medios de transporte público de pasajeros, de origen nacional, que presten servicios por cualquier título dentro de la jurisdicción del Estado nacional y también fuera del mismo, están obligados a disponer en sus unidades de transporte de un espacio visible y destacado en el que deberá inscribirse la leyenda Las Islas Malvinas son argentinas” y bla bla bla
Goebbels is alive and well in Argentina.
Mr. Roger Lorton...
Oct 16th, 2017 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse -4Now that was funny Rodge.... So desperate that you have to switch from your previous...:
***“ They won't find any schools called Malvi-something. They wont see any road signs making claims to someone else's territory. Nothing much on the bus at all - maybe an advert for soap.”***
To your current...:
***“ Signs put up by local people. - not put up by the Government. ”*** ... to explain the ubiquous nationalistic propaganda present in them windblown Islands... (Including the homes, working-places and cars of most previous and current members of the FIG(leaf) and the homes, working-places and cars of most previous and current candidates to the FIG(leaf)...
Grasping at straws..., young lad...? Yup - looks like it.
Indeed..., it's telling that most of the FIG(leaf) members and candidates feel the urge to employ nationalistic propaganda.... constantly...
Squirm Think, all you like. Notices set up by private individuals can never be seen as the same as the indoctrination by governments. Road signs, bus signs, schools, stadiums, railway stations, etc, etc.
Oct 16th, 2017 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse +5And the best you have produced is a mug.
Which rather sums you up.
Mr. Roger Lorton...
Oct 16th, 2017 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse -6Squirm Rodge, all you like.... Fact is that them windblown Islands are cozily wallpapered by them Squatting Kelpers with flags & nationalistic propaganda that remind me of Helene Bertha Amalie Riefenstahl's style....
The best they have produced is a mug....
Which rather sums them up...
Hmm. So on the one hand, we have Argentina whose government literally passed laws to compel all public transport to display propaganda notices, and installed signs all over the country at taxpayer expense. And on the other some people who put up there own, rather home-made looking, posters in their private homes and cars? Yeah, that's totally equivalent.
Oct 16th, 2017 - 02:24 pm - Link - Report abuse +6Don't you feel kind of embarrassed when your government does these things, Think?
There are HUGH differences. In Argentina even the very Constitution says that it is the duty of every citizen to claim the “Malvinas”. In Tierra del Fuego province it is mandatory to play the “The Marcha de las Malvinas” EVERY day on EVERY radio station. There a numerous institutions, such as airports, sports venues, schools and whatever, even municipalities, with names such as “Malvinas Argentinas”. All this is pressed upon the population from national, regional and local governments. I do not think that there in the UK is anything like that. No government payed street signs “Falklands are British”, no mandatory playing of “The Song of the Falklands” on the BBC, no institutions called “British Falkland Stadium” or the like. On the islands themselves there are of course people putting up signs and flags. But that are private initiatives, not government sponsored propaganda.
Oct 16th, 2017 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse +8@DT “ Don't you feel kind of embarrassed when your government does these things, Think?”
Oct 16th, 2017 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse +5The word “ Argentina” comes from an indigenous term that means “ knows no shame.”
Mr. DemonTree...
Oct 16th, 2017 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse -3I didn't say nothing about it being “totally equivalent”...
I did point to the fact that nationalistic propaganda and flag waving are more than ubiquous in them Islands. Period.
By the way...
- Funny intent of you Engrishmen to diferentiate soooo sharply between the “GOVERNMENT” and the “people” of an isolated community of 2,000 inbred British subjects (with the odd Norwegian...;-)..., their time limited contracted Saint & Shilean servants... and their bought Filipino toy-girls...
To finish... The legislative, informative and propagandistic actions taken by the previous Argentinean Administration in regard of the Malvinas Issue..., not only don't embarrass me the least... but have my absolute support...
They are some of the main reasons why...,the present Argentinean Administration whose innermost Nomenklatura consists of neoliberal heirs of great fortunes who haven't had a decent workday in their lives ..., (who all happen to be Ex Alumni of Posh Engrish Schools as the Cardinal Newmann..., by the way...) hasn't sold the Malvinas cause down the river to the UK in exchange for some juicy exclusive contracts for them and their families...
In 1997 the present President of Argentina, Mauricio Macri, expressed his opinion that a sovereignty transfer of the islands would mean an additional deficit to the Argentine economy, in a country so large, which should not have any territorial disputes (Macri, 1997, cited in Perfil, 2015). Perhaps he still has the same opinion. But he of course know that it would be suicidal to admit it openly as President. But perhaps a demalvinization process could come in the future. I think the present government of Argentina is not as fanatical about that as the previous ones. But, if they could stop all this propaganda now, change the Constitution and skip all the “Malvinas laws”, after 50 years there could be normal friendly neighbor relations between Argentina and the Falklands.
Oct 16th, 2017 - 03:47 pm - Link - Report abuse +6@Swede
Oct 16th, 2017 - 04:24 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Certainly there is nothing like that in the UK. If those kids were going on a school trip to London they would be highly unlikely to encounter a single reference to the Falklands or to the war anywhere.
In the islands themselves it will be different though, I don't think they can expect a particularly friendly reception, unfortunately.
As for the President, from what I have seen on the internet many younger Argentines, while they agree with the claim in general, are embarrassed by all the government propaganda and associate it with CFK's government and her many other policies that they also found embarrassing. But probably they are not representative of the country as a whole.
@Think
Yes, I think there is a big difference between someone choosing to put up a poster, and the government passing a law to force people to put up a poster, even in a community of only 3,000 people. Not to mention such things as compelling all schools in TdF to play the 'Malvinas March' at every school event.
I'm really surprised you support such blatant propaganda, especially when aimed at children. And while I'm not surprised you mistrust your current government, Argentina has had an almost endless parade of bad governments, yet not one of them has managed to 'sell the Malvinas cause down the river' in a permanent way.
What I just don't understand is why it's such a big deal in Argentina.
Argentina should not “sell he Malvinas cause down the river”. They had better “flush the Malvinas cause down the toilet”, so we all could get rid of that nonsense. Best for Argentina, Britain, Falklands and the rest of the world.
Oct 16th, 2017 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse +6Malaysia..., the Philippines and Viet-Nam should not “Sell he Spratly cause down the river”. They had better “Flush the Spratly cause down the toilet”..., so we all could get rid of that nonsense. Best for Malaysia, the Philippines, Viet-Nam, China, the Spratlys and the rest of the world.... Right...?
Oct 16th, 2017 - 05:36 pm - Link - Report abuse -6@Swede
Oct 16th, 2017 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They may as well try to get some concessions out of Britain first. I can understand why Argentina makes the claim, and even why they might be angry about it; what I can't understand is the seeming obsession, even worship of a place that would be very little regarded if Argentina had had it all along.
@Think
I don't know if they should, but the Philippines seems to be doing so under their current president, for reasons of practicality. I have also heard people say that Britain sold Hong Kong down the river for increased trade with China.
DemonTree: History, history and history...
Oct 16th, 2017 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Chile has the historical right to Chabut and its surrounding territory, despite the fact one of our idiot presidents signed it over to Argentina during a time of duress. We should demand it back if were for the unfortunate opinion of the current squatters...
By the way, with all due respect, Britain did not sell Hong Kong down the river...
Hermanito Shileno...
Oct 16th, 2017 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse -3Firstly..., it's “Chupat”..., not Chabut”
Secondly..., it was not one..., but two consecutive of your idiotic presidents that sold Patagonia down the river to us Argies during a time of triumph for Shile., when they had almost won their conflicts against Chile and Peru and had no more troops to occupy any more conquered territory..., and after carefully reading Charles Darwin's papers describing the complete worthlessness of the Patagonian steppe... ;-)
Thirthly..., with all due respect..., Britain did indeed sell Hong Kong..., including its 6 million inhabitants and their Self Determination rights..., down the river.
Think,
Oct 16th, 2017 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Fact- pleanty of folks here born in St Helena or Chile who now have Permanent Right of Residence in the Islands and quite a few from both who have gone all the way and are now fully registered Falkland Islanders. Yes all come on a work permit that can be renewed with their job at the start- but those who like it here, and can show they are an asset to the place - settle and stay.
As for the 18 students - they show their naivety by all wearing their Pro Arg Tee shirts for the newspaper, with the islands coloured in Arg blue and white!
NOT a clever thing to do if they really do want to communicate with an open mind! But clearly they do not because as one says - they want to talk to our youngsters about an issue that is so important to them!!
NO mention of being interested or prepared to list to our side of the story and some current legal facts - instead of all this harping on about who did or did not do what to who 2-3 centuries ago! The whole of Europe was hell bent on grabbing bits of other places and from each other in those days - even Argentina got in on the act 160-170 yrs ago when it wiped out the indigenous folks from Patagonia and took all their lands for those of European descent. As had early day Argentines whilst still Spanish in the center and north
of Argentina.
I expect they will be largely ignored. The rusty rose will no doubt be disposed of.
Wonder what they will think of the Arg Military Cemetery - it is of course untidy still-a work site, not yet completley restored after all the exhumations last winter and will be a month or two yet before the last stages of the ICRC restoration works are complete.
Think - from Wikipedia
Oct 16th, 2017 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse +4“The Convention between the United Kingdom and China, Respecting an Extension of Hong Kong Territory, commonly known as the Convention for the Extension of Hong Kong Territory or the Second Convention of Peking, was a lease signed between Qing China and the United Kingdom in 1898. The original copy of the Convention is now kept in the National Palace Museum in Taiwan.” The lease came to an end in 1997.
I can't see any mention of “sale”!
To give away Hong Kong to the PRC without any self determination was of course not really democratic.
Oct 16th, 2017 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse +5But we must also remember that the situation was very different from the Falklands case. 1) The biggest part of HK (86%) consisted of the so called New Territories. The were leased from China to UK for 99 years. This time expired in 1997. The UK was obliged to return them to China in order to honour this agreement. It would have been almost impossible to retain the rest. 2) Most inhabitants of HK were ethnical Chineese. 3) It would have been very dangerous to seek confrontation with China. A full scale war with a country with such military power would of course have been extremely risky. So, the solution “one country, two systems” was perhaps the only possibility in this case.
None of these factors are relevant when it comes to RA/UK/FI relations. There is no lease running out of time, the “kelpers” are in no way Argentine and Argentina is not a military super-power.
Estimado THINK:
Oct 16th, 2017 - 09:58 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Firstly, the correct Chilean spelling is Chabut from the original Chabuthue, not the Argentine “Chupat”
Secondly, it does not matter how many idiotic Chilean presidents gave Patagonia away to you non deserving Argies, because we know know it's no longer worthless and we want it back. Charles Darwin owes us an apology.
“Thirthly,” (I assume you learned a different version of English spelling in your fancy school) Britain did indeed give up Hong Kong as most of the lease had already ran out and gave them a nice new airport to show no hard feelings about the former opium trade and etc....
Chicureo...
Oct 16th, 2017 - 10:10 pm - Link - Report abuse -4My comment above should of course read...: “ almost won their conflicts against BOLIVIA and Peru”
Anglo turnips Gordo1 & Swede above confirm what I wrote before...: “Britain did indeed sell Hong Kong..., including its 6 million inhabitants and their Self Determination rights..., down the river.”
Islander1...:
You say...:
“As for the 18 students - they show their naivety by all wearing their Pro Arg Tee shirts for the newspaper, with the islands coloured in Arg blue and white!”
I say...:
Most appropriate attire for visiting an occupied territory..., were folks constantly wear their red white and blue Pro Engrish mentality and that “Falk U Argie” glint in the eye...
And geeeee..., lad... You really 'ave a fixation about untidy cemeteries..., huhhh...
Are you same sort of necro neat freak or something...?
It was obviously undemocratic to hand all of HK back to China without a vote, but I don't see any practical alternative. However, I do think the UK government should have made it possible for more people to get British citizenship, so they could get out if things went badly. AFAIK the reason they took full British citizenship away from all the OTs, including the Falklands, was to stop potentially millions of Hongkongers moving to the UK before the handover.
Oct 16th, 2017 - 10:19 pm - Link - Report abuse +4@Islander1
Don't you think it's time you tried your own 'seduction policy'? You want these students to hear your side of the story, right? And then go off to university or jobs and tell all their new friends. They won't have been raised to be open minded on this, but they are at an age when people typically get their minds broadened.
Hermanito Shileno...
Oct 16th, 2017 - 10:43 pm - Link - Report abuse -5You say...:
”Thirthly,” (I assume you learned a different version of English spelling in your fancy school) “
I say...:
Firstly..., I have already said that I didn't take no Engrish at my good old school...
Secondly..., we ” KNOW KNOW ” from your wrong spelling above... that your fancy, posh and expensivo Engrish school in Santiago didn't fulfill their grammatical mission...
Thirdly..., no thirdly..., just writing down thirdly hundred times on the wall....
Thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly..., thirdly...,thirdly..., thirdly...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KAfKFKBlZbM
THINK:
Oct 16th, 2017 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse +7I ATTENDED not necessarily learned from my school.
Sadly, you poor Argentines are all brainwashed regarding history and niceties such as diplomacy. Despite what some claim on this thread, Britain didn't get paid one shilling for the territory, as most of the lease had already ran out.
The English made a pirates fortune for over a century and was lucky to get away when they did.
Have a nice evening in Chabuthue.
Lol. Tercero, ¡Romanos vayan a case!
Oct 16th, 2017 - 11:14 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Latin sounds horrible. Think, where did you learn English then?
Traveling...
Oct 16th, 2017 - 11:30 pm - Link - Report abuse -4You must have lived in Britain or some other English speaking country for a while to learn it decently, surely?
Oct 16th, 2017 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse +1And that was supposed to be 'casa', stupid typos.
@Marti Llazo
Oct 16th, 2017 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Thanx for the link to the Argie story. Indeed, a different tale...
Well, they can't resist, can they? Perhaps that's where the sponsoring comes from?
Mr. DemonTree...
Oct 17th, 2017 - 12:13 am - Link - Report abuse -41) Nope..., no long stays anyplace in the Anglosphere...
2) In Spanish one would say... : ”Romanos váyanse a (su) casa.“ ...
”Vayan a casa”... lacks agressivity... and could even be misinterpreted as an invitation to visit ones factual home...
One wouldn't want that...
At the end of the day, they are Argentine High School graduates visiting the Falkland Islands on a High School graduation trip. ... and these are the things that are sought to be commented on MercoPress
Oct 17th, 2017 - 01:59 am - Link - Report abuse -3Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire and mythology major
Oct 17th, 2017 - 03:37 am - Link - Report abuse +5“Or maybe this one…?.” Therein lies the difference, on the one hand government sponsored indoctrinating mythology. On the other, individual free speech reflecting self-determination.
@Patrick...
Oct 17th, 2017 - 04:09 am - Link - Report abuse +6“High school graduation trip”...... actually a propaganda exercise contrived by adults using children to disguise their villainy.
...these are the things that ought to be reported more fully and correctly in MercoPress.
Did someone call? I only graduated when I left university. Each step of the way before that I just left and waited for the results to drop through the letterbox, although we did have a school disco at 16 and went to the pub at 18.
Oct 17th, 2017 - 07:49 am - Link - Report abuse -4Think
Oct 17th, 2017 - 08:28 am - Link - Report abuse +7“Traveling” or “travelling”? So you speak American not English!
“That depends on where you are writing and who is your audience. Travelling is the preferred spelling in British English. Traveling is the preferred spelling in American English. Whether you're talking about travelled or traveled or traveller or traveler, these same preferences still apply.”
I Think someone should tell those kids they need to bring other jumpers otherwise they might find themselves stranded.
Oct 17th, 2017 - 08:36 am - Link - Report abuse +3Mr. DemonTree...
Oct 17th, 2017 - 08:52 am - Link - Report abuse -5“Latin sounds horrible”... you say...
Not when you speak it with a sweet Spanish accent..., I say...:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLfku8EBM-vSJngxGnxpiFS1t4eKPwoFG1¶ms=OAFIAVgd&v=U5G9gQdtSyY&mode=NORMAL
@Think
Oct 17th, 2017 - 08:53 am - Link - Report abuse +3So when would you use the less aggressive one? What if you were telling a bunch of kids to go home from somewhere?
And what did you find hardest when learning English?
@TV
Probably no one will see those T-shirts at all, because when will it be warm enough for them to take their jumpers off?
Perfect timing...huhhhhhhh...?
Oct 17th, 2017 - 08:59 am - Link - Report abuse -2Must be the Sapient Pearwood...;-)
What Latin really sounded like:
Oct 17th, 2017 - 09:18 am - Link - Report abuse +2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_enn7NIo-S0
wenny, weedy, weeky ;)
Being students, they've obviously gone to the Falklands to learn all about usurpation.
Oct 17th, 2017 - 09:19 am - Link - Report abuse +1Falkland Islands – The Usurpation (1 pg): https://www.academia.edu/34838377/Falkland_Islands_The_Usurpation
Think, can you speak Icelandic?
Oct 17th, 2017 - 10:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0You want my credit card number and PIN code too...?
Oct 17th, 2017 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Knowing whether you can speak Icelandic would allow me to steal your money? I thought it was a harmless enough question.
Oct 17th, 2017 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Suuuuuuuuuure....
Oct 17th, 2017 - 12:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How many State Registered Icelandic-Spanish translators do you Think they are at the CCRANC*............. huhhhhhhhhh?
*(Chubutean Chapter Registry of the Argentinean National College of Translators...;-)
Very funny conversation.
Oct 17th, 2017 - 01:01 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Would a table be possible with Roger, Think, Demon Tree and others?
By the way the adolescents choose the color of their shirts (red, blue, green) many times to differentiate themselves from other schools and they carry in the back the year of its promotion. Do not see ghosts everywhere.
@Think
Oct 17th, 2017 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Zero? If your college of translators really existed it wouldn't have an acronym based on the name in English. ;)
@Malvi
Table? Not sure what you mean.
And it looks like there is a little picture of the Falklands on those t-shirts, in light blue. I assume that is what people are complaining about.
People here seem to love bragging about what school they went to forgetting that its life, your contribution to your community and country and personal achievements that count in the end. Its quite possible to be an intelligent idiot as so many academics sadly continue to prove.
Oct 17th, 2017 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sr. Malvinense means a table..., preferently a round one..., where Sir Roger..., Sir DemonTree..., Don Think and others could air some moot....
Oct 17th, 2017 - 01:36 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Ya know... like Sir Bedivere..., Sir Gaheris..., Sir Gawain..., Sir Geraint..., Sir Lamorak... and Sir Palamedes did in ye good auld days...
Aw, The Voice, we don't think you're stupid just because you didn't go to Uni... it's because of what you say in here. ;)
Oct 17th, 2017 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse +1...sorry, I couldn't resist. But seriously, explaining that my school didn't have a leaving party is bragging? Or was it the other thread where I said that it had no sixth form?
@Think
So, like, have a discussion? I assume he doesn't mean get round a literal table, because that's hard when people are on three different continents.
What is 'air some moot' supposed to mean, by the way?
Ventilate some dissensions...?
Oct 17th, 2017 - 02:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, a table, literally, and round at the request of Sr. Think, as in the good old days, Sir Bors, Sir Galahad...
Oct 17th, 2017 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Sir Laughalot?
Oct 17th, 2017 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse +1I've missed a lot I suspect. Been blocked out from commenting for 24 hours. Another glitch perhaps? Glitches don't like me it seems.
Since the Argie claim on the Falklands is wholly based on “proximity” although they would never dare admit the truth - if I were Señor Sthink, I would refrain from mentioning the 'Îles Anglo-normandes'. Who was the last Frenchman who demanded they be “returned”? Napoleon?
Oct 17th, 2017 - 03:01 pm - Link - Report abuse +2@RL
Oct 17th, 2017 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Sir Malvihad wants to hold a Mercopress meetup, it seems.
@Malvi
If you want a literal round table, then it should be at Camelot. Unfortunately no one knows where it was. Take your pick:
http://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Camelot-Court-of-King-Arthur/
Well... if we believe them Ozzies... the safest place por a new Camelot would be Mar del Plata, Argentina...
Oct 17th, 2017 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse -2http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-16/north-korea-missile-range-map/8880894
I was going to propose Port Stanley but ... seeing the very good link of Sr. Think, it is much better Mar del Plata.
Oct 17th, 2017 - 03:55 pm - Link - Report abuse -2THINK: you need to check what brand of rock gut blended whiskey you're drinking... “Chubutean” you say... Not Chubat?.
Oct 17th, 2017 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Compatriota...
Oct 17th, 2017 - 05:03 pm - Link - Report abuse -1I'm positive... “Chubt” & “Chubutean” derives from “Chupat”... as my good friend...,actual in national television..., fellow Chupatean...and originarian connational of both of us... (you and me)... rightly calls it...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UQxjOpcuZHg
DT, actually I went to Acton Tech and got a Dip Tech with distinction. Do you know what Acton Tech later became and what a Dip Techs equivalence is? Now you have tempted me to play the same sad game .. Carry on bragging with your mate the bricklayer.
Oct 17th, 2017 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0THINK: I really can't believe I wasted part of my time listening to that woman. It's enough to drive one to drink, which reminds me I have an old Merlot to open this afternoon. You know, Chicureo is (del mapudungún chikümn rewe 'región donde se arman las lanzas')
Oct 17th, 2017 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Cumpa....
Oct 17th, 2017 - 05:57 pm - Link - Report abuse -2She is not only your connational..., hermanito...
She is also your colleague..., a Weichafe...
And a damn good one...!
@TV
Oct 17th, 2017 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, I didn't, and there is precious little on the internet about the Dip Tech, too. Do tell. And what subject did you actually study?
And although I was joking, it's true that I care a whole lot less about what what qualifications you may have than what you say on here. What someone demonstrates about their intelligence or character is ever so much more compelling than what they say about themselves.
Brunel College is the clue. There were only 20 Universities in 1960. Mechanical and Electrical Engineering. Only the very best went and for us only one in 36 passed the Civil Service Entrance Exam to get thst far..
Oct 17th, 2017 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse +2http://www.brunel.ac.uk/services/archives-management/university-collections/brunel-university-archives/memories-of-brunel/time-was-...-a-personal-memory-from-1960
..and what you say is so true from someone so dependent on the operation of Google. Lol !
shackleton - The last Frenchman to make a demand was indeed Napoleon; or at least his brother.
Oct 17th, 2017 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse +4In Sepetmber 1801 the French Government in the preliminary negotiations for a peace, demanded an establishment on the 'Malouines'. A demand made of Britain, not Spain. We declined.
In December, they repeated the demand. This was dealt with in January, 1802, at Amiens during the negotiations for the treaty that would carry that name - and again rejected.
”3dly. The Proposition respecting an Establishment in Falklands Island. This Article was likewise brought forward in the Projet of Preliminaries and likewise rejected – it cannot therefore form a part of the Definitive Treaty. ...”
It is interesting that the French demanded an establishment on the 'Malouines', but Britain rejected only for Falkland's Island (West Falkland). There is no record of whether France then attempted to arm-twist Spain into providing a base for its fishing fleet.
Someone is sooo...touchy about not having a degree...;-)
Oct 17th, 2017 - 11:20 pm - Link - Report abuse -1I didn't realise there's so many folk out there without one...
Must be the company I keep...
TWIMC...
Oct 17th, 2017 - 11:51 pm - Link - Report abuse -4For someone that complained about being “tempted to play the same sad game”..., Turnip “The Voice” seems quite happy to play said sad game...
Sooo......... he got a “Dip Tech with Distinction”..., which seemingly only the very best go to and only one in 36 passes....
I wonder..., if such a disinguished “Engrish Dip Test ” is necessarily taken with sour cream and chives Hula Hoops... or one can choose plain Doritos...?
Ah, raised responses from the dinosaur and bricklayer who rubs shoulders with other tradesmen ;-) A Dip Tech is a degree fyi if you wished it to be designated as such. And, the entrance exam was for the civil service not the college.
Oct 18th, 2017 - 08:13 am - Link - Report abuse -1@TV
Oct 18th, 2017 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mechanical and Electrical Engineering is about what I expected. I didn't know you had worked in the public sector though. Was that back in the days when the civil service was a job for life?
“and what you say is so true from someone so dependent on the operation of Google.”
Perhaps if I'd had a better all round education I wouldn't need to rely on google? ;)
...Nah, there's way too much information available these days for anyone to possibly learn it all. I am happy to have the whole world's knowledge at my fingertips, and not have to rely on what little I learned in school or what I can find in the local library.
All those British lies of P & P were denied, neither Bougainville in its memories nor the French Government mentions to the islands like British, never Britain proclaimed to the islands like of its property, these are the facts, everything else is pure fantasy of the Falklandist. ;-)
Oct 18th, 2017 - 11:57 am - Link - Report abuse -2Malvinense 1833
Oct 18th, 2017 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Under any and all facets of international law the Islands are British. Argentina has no longer any opportunity
to bring the issue before any competent tribunal. So she reduced to making ineffectual comments from the sidelines. As there is no legal authority to change the status quo. What was that you were saying about
fantasy?
People with degrees? I recall a former pupil of Harrow School with a good degree from Oxbridge working for a British multinational in a large Latin American city who called the fire brigade on one April 1st to report a bomb in the premises! He really though that April Fools Day was international!!!!!!!! He was on the next plane back to the UK!
Oct 18th, 2017 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Terence: I do not agree with you, but well, they are opinions.
Oct 18th, 2017 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Congratulations to the teenagers, down the walls !!
Malvi 1833 - Lies? P&P gave their honest opinions, not lies.
Oct 18th, 2017 - 01:26 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Why would Bougainville recognise a British claim? He didn't recognise a Spanish claim. he only recognised the French claim, which he promoted again in 1801.
The expert on Bougainville is an Australian, strangely enough, by the name of Dunmore. He translated Bougainville's journal for the Hakluyt Society - serious people. What he said was -
“(Bougainville) signed the formal handover document … This did not mean that he admitted the islands truly belonged to Spain – he never held that view – but it closed one chapter of his life. … ”
Have you noticed that the 'formal handover document' is actually just a receipt?
Now if you want facts, you can either await the next P&P Book which was promised in 2009 (should any of us live long enough); or you can get the real deal now - https://falklandstimeline.wordpress.com/chapter-pdfs/
Enjoy.
In the personal diary of Bougainville there is nothing that resembles a claim of sovereignty in favor of France, it is sufficient to read his personal diary.
Oct 18th, 2017 - 01:46 pm - Link - Report abuse -1You Say: “(Bougainville) signed the formal handover document.
I say: With that it reaches and somehow is recognizing it.
And most importantly, the King of France recognized it.
Another curious thing:
- Great Britain did not protest the French occupation,
- Great Britain did not protest the transfer of the islands of France to Spain.
Great Britain did not move either - which is how we got to 1770.
Oct 18th, 2017 - 02:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Remember?
As for Bougainville's 'Diary'?
“30,000 Frenchmen, established on these islands would ensure to the Metropole (Paris) a vast trade in the two oceans, and this settlement would also serve to form the training school indispensable for sailors of a navy such as the French Navy should be. No time is more suitable than now for Spain to renounce in our favour her imaginary right to these islands and for England to consent to this concession.”
Imaginary :-)
Yes, it is clear that they did not move, had arrived clandestinely and remained hidden until the Spaniards came to meet him.
Oct 18th, 2017 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Bougainville was disappointed because his colonization project was not continued. Imaginary or not he considered the islands as belonging to Spain. “No time is more suitable than now for Spain to RENOUNCE in our favour her imaginary RIGHT to these islands”
In addition it says: “in our favor”. Britain in all cases is out of play.
Curiously
Oct 18th, 2017 - 02:59 pm - Link - Report abuse +5Britain DID protest to the French in December, 1766.
Curiously,
Britain DID protest to the Spanish in September, 1770.
Hardly clandestine as Byron's voyage and intention was reported in the Gazette d'Amsterdam before he sailed.
Renounce an IMAGINARY right? And for England to CONSENT?
You need to read more Malvi - Bougainville never accepted that Spain had any right. On top of that, there is no evidence that the French Crown recognised such a right either.
Bougainville's 'receipt' only mentions the French King making a 'voluntary' cession.
Keep trying :-)
Malvinense 1833
Oct 18th, 2017 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse +2“I do not agree with you” You may not but international law does, otherwise you would be able to show that I’m incorrect.
This what you are looking for Terry?
Oct 18th, 2017 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse +4”... Between 1841 and 1849 there were spasmodic protests by the Argentine Government to Britain; protests were renewed from 1884 to 1888. From 1908 onwards there have been a series of protests. Since 1833, however, there has not been any manifestation at all of physical control by the Argentine over the Islands. The protests made by the Argentine can be described as paper protests in that they were never followed up by further positive action. Furthermore, they were punctuated by long periods of silence so far as Great Britain is concerned, during which the Argentine showed no animus either way. There was, for example, such a period of silence between 1849 and 1884 (35 years), and between 1884 and 1908 (24 years). … no positive attempt was made by the Argentine to have the matter referred to any process on international arbitration (although it is true that Dr. Ortiz suggested arbitration in 1884), even after the establishment of the League of Nations the Argentine did not bring the matter before this body. … ”
Legal advice given to the British Government in 1947
@TH
Oct 18th, 2017 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“otherwise you would be able to show that I’m incorrect.”
Haha. He could show you you're incorrect 100 times in 100 different ways, but you'd never admit it. It's pointless debating with someone who dismisses and ignores any facts he finds inconvenient.
..... Ya mean... like debating with a Turnip..?
Oct 18th, 2017 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse -3Demonstrator the slavish follower
Oct 18th, 2017 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse +1“He could show you you're incorrect 100 times “ Once would be nice from either of you but neither you can.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Christopher Hitchens
@TH
Oct 18th, 2017 - 08:08 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Neither of us can, because you refuse to recognise it. How about we ask someone neutral to judge? Unfortunately Christopher Hitchens is not available, so it would have to be someone (or a few people) here.
Also, why do you feel the need to use insulting nicknames? Do you imagine that calling me names makes your arguments any more valid?
Nop, Roger, Britain requested permission in 1749 to explore the islands, of course Spain refused.
Oct 18th, 2017 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse -1The British Ambassador in Madrid, Benjamin Keen, had to explain that the purpose of the trip was merely the discovery of new territories and not to establish any settlement therein. Following the orders given by the Duke of Bedford, who at the time was in the British Secretariat of State for the Southern Department, he stated that:
As establishing a colony in either of the two islands is not the intention and Her Majesty’s corvettes will not go ashore, they will not even get close to the Spanish coast, the King cannot understand that this plan can provoke resentment on Madrid’s part
The Spanish categorically replied in the negative. Ambassador Keen informed Bedford that the Spanish minister had told him.
In the Gazzeta of Amsterdam the news of the French establishment was published before the voyage of Byron, of course the British crown did not protest.
In 1766 in a demonstration of British arrogance and two years after the effective French occupation, the British protested in Port Louis, at no time mentioned that they were in Port Egmont.
In any case the two establishments were intruders, as recognized by Bougainville.
Everything was solved in 1774 when Spain made reservation of its sovereignty, Great Britain accepted it and soon retired of there leaving to Spain in exclusive possession of the islands.
The Roger Islands were never British. ;-)
Demonstrator the slavish follower
Oct 18th, 2017 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Neither of you can, because it has never occurred, if it had you would have so indicated. When you slavishly rush to make untruthful and unsubstantiated accusations in support of others, without them or you without meeting your burden of proofs. Seems like adequate recompense to me or any other reasonable person.
@TH
Oct 18th, 2017 - 11:14 pm - Link - Report abuse -1I didn't think you'd be brave enough to accept that challenge. It's easy enough to tell yourself that you're always right, harder to convince an impartial judge.
And you are lying; I have never made untruthful and unsubstantiated accusations in support of anyone. Since you have no evidence, and can have no evidence, your false accusations can be dismissed without evidence.
Your idiotic and wholly inaccurate nicknames say a lot more about what kind of person you are than anyone else.
Marti Llazo & The voice;
Oct 18th, 2017 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse -3If what you think is the case. Then That's OK. We've been putting up with your own British propaganda involving children on our soil for over a Century and a half !! Since the day you opened your first High school academies and bloody social clubs, companies, industries, corporations and institutions !!! When it comes to promoting your culture “propagandistically” one could just as easily say, in OUR Country, Britain is at a 1000 to 1 transgressive debt. I THINK you could put up with a little of our culture ! PIGS
“Demonstrator the slavish follower
Oct 18th, 2017 - 11:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He could show you you're incorrect 100 times“ Other than YHO you proffer no proof therefore an adverse opinion can be drawn.
The Convention of Settlement, 1850. This is how legal scholars of the day and therefore nations viewed the effects of such a peace treaty : LAWS OF WAR By H. W. HALLECK, 1866, CHAPTER XXXIV, TREATIES OF PEACE.
§ 12. Principle of uti possidetes. A treaty of peace leaves every thing in the state in which it finds it, unless there be some express stipulations to the contrary. The existing state of possession is maintained, except so far as altered by the terms of the treaty. If nothing be said about the conquered country or places, they remain with the possessor, and his title cannot afterward be called in question. ... ...Treaties of peace, made by the competent authorities of such governments, are obligatory upon the whole nation, and, consequently, upon all succeeding governments, whatever may be their character.
Supported by the following international legal scholars: Grotius, Vattel, Henry Wheaton, LL.D, James Madison Cutt, T. J. Lawrence, M.A., LL.D,
George Grafton Wilson, Ph.D., LL.D, L. Oppenheim, M.A., LL.D, Hans Kelsen
Additionally supported by Argentine subsequent acquiescence. The Argentine president Domingo Sarmiento’s Message to the Argentine Congress on 1 May 1869: “The state of our foreign relations fulfils the aspirations of the country. Nothing is claimed from us by other nations; we have nothing to ask of them except that they will persevere in manifesting their sympathies, with which both Governments and peoples have honoured the Republic, both for its progress and its spirit of fairness.” (printed in: British and Foreign State Papers 1870-1871 (printed London 1877), p. 1227-1228).
@Patrick Edgar
Oct 18th, 2017 - 11:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I didn't know immigrants opening schools, clubs and businesses was propaganda. But if you object so much, perhaps Argentina should abandon anything associated with British culture, starting with football...?
@TH
I've proved you wrong on things several times, but you always refuse to admit it.
Your problem is that you don't understand logic, and without that it's impossible to prove anything. All you can do is repeat your favourite quotes, whether they are relevant or not, and them declare victory despite having lost the argument.
I suppose that is one reason you are not a lawyer, because you would have to convince a judge or jury that you were right and not just yourself.
Nope malvi 1833 - Britain did NOT request permission in 1749. In fact Spain's Minister Ensenada only requested that the plan be - “.. laid aside for the present.” As a result of that REQUEST and with a commercial treaty being negotiated, Britain agreed only to a postponement - ”... for the present, and without giving up the right to send out Ships for the discovery of unknown & unsettled Parts of the World.” [ Keene to Bedford May 21st 1749.]
Oct 19th, 2017 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse +4Britain did not protest to France before MacBride's return very simply because they had no confirmation of which islands the French had settled. By the time Britain knew, we also knew that the French were intending to leave.
What evidence do you have that MacBride did not tell the French that the British Base was at Egmont? As I understand it, he gave them the full picture.
“Captain Macbride … came to our settlement in the beginning of December … His pretension was that these lands belonged to the King of Great Britain; he threatened to make a forcible landing if continued resistance was opposed to him; paid a visit to the Commandant; and, on the same day, put to sea. .. Such was the state of the Malvina Islands when we delivered them up to the Spaniards.” [ Bougainville quoted in Moreno's Memoria and Protest to Viscount Palmerston June 17th, 1833. 'Malvina Islands' as a Spanish name for the Falklands only came into use after 1802.]
Nothing was resolved in 1774. Britain's claim was clearly stated. British sovereignty without effective challenge.
Be it known to all Nations, That Falkland's Island with this Fort, the Storehouses, Wharfs Harbours, Bays and Creeks thereunto belonging, are the sole Right and Property of his Most Sacred Majesty George the third, King of Great Britain, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, etc. In Witness whereof this Plate is set up and his Britanick Majesty's Colours left flying as a mark of possession by S. W. Clayton, commanding officer at Falkland's Island. 1774 A.D.
:-)
Soccer was no English invention. And your British institutional imports to Argentina were hardly the creation of your working immigrants ! ... And if it were up to me, I would remove EVERYTHING BRITISH from Argentina in a thousand mile radius
Oct 19th, 2017 - 12:08 am - Link - Report abuse -2“The Convention of Settlement, 1850 ”
Oct 19th, 2017 - 12:12 am - Link - Report abuse -1Convención para restablecer las perfectas relaciones de amistad entre la Confederación Argentina y Su Majestad Britanica)
That does what it says and no more...restore perfect relations of friendship between the Argentine Confederation and His Britannic Majesty)
WTF has restoring relations of friendship got to do with conquered territory...? Huh..?
Yes it was. Not the basic concept, but soccer as opposed to the several other games also called football.
Oct 19th, 2017 - 12:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0And I'm sure there were and are companies based in Britain operating in Argentina, but who started the schools and social clubs? Mostly immigrants.
Luckily it isn't up to you. Do you even live in Argentina, or within a thousand miles of it?
Well, there goes the neighbourhood. The Italian loon Pat has arrived.
Oct 19th, 2017 - 12:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Still making your parents proud Pat?
Demon Tree - reverting to an earlier conversation, a better copy is here - https://jcb.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet/detail/JCBMAPS~1~1~3464~101693:A-draught-of-Falklands-Islands-in-t
I have a few questions about authenticity owing to the inconsistent use of the letter 's' which looked more like a f back then. You had some difficulty seeing the last one I posted, so this should be better.
Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire and mythology major
Oct 19th, 2017 - 02:15 am - Link - Report abuse +1“WTF has restoring relations of friendship got to do with conquered territory…?”
Your unqualified and unsupported opinion versus the opinions of ten experts of international law. Well that’s a no brainer, blink if you can hear me.
“Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth.” Franklin D. Roosevelt
Patrick Edgar
Oct 19th, 2017 - 07:45 am - Link - Report abuse +1What a w----r!
@RL
Oct 19th, 2017 - 09:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks, that's much clearer, and I can finally see the settlements. But wow, that map is so inaccurate compared to the modern one. I tried to find the place where Stanley is now, and it basically doesn't exist.
@TH
Who's disagreeing with the experts?
“A treaty of peace leaves every thing in the state in which it finds it, unless there be some express stipulations to the contrary.”
So it did. Britain still had the islands, and Argentina still claimed them, exactly as before the treaty.
”Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth.”
Indeed, so why do you do it constantly?
P.E.
Oct 19th, 2017 - 10:08 am - Link - Report abuse +2I concur with your sentiments. The first thing removed should be the use of the English language. Then we would not have to put up with the buffoons who propagate their mistaken propaganda on this site...you included and hepatia in all her various disguises.
Lol. But no, first they must eliminate football from Argentina and a 1000 mile radius around it, which appears to include the entirety of Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay and Bolivia, and a good chunk of southern Brazil.
Oct 19th, 2017 - 10:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Then after all the wars are over, whatever is left of Argentina can start on the rest of the removal program. ;)
It's your patriotic duty, Patrick Edgar!
Demonstrator the slavish follower
Oct 19th, 2017 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse -1“Indeed, so why do you do it constantly?” If this is so how come you are unable to demonstrate any instance my untruthfulness?
In fact, your failure indicates clearly who is the only liar here. So keep doing what you do best, blowing smoke out your as…
Don't feel bad. A lot of people have no talent!
Careful now, don't let your brains go to your head!
I'm impressed; I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.
As far as I can feel for what these children think and most intelligent Argentines is that it is more convenient to go to the Falkland Islands than to go to UK, many Spanish American people have the opportunity to see and learn the English language a few miles from home and above all a British style touch and this is an opportunity for everyone !!
Oct 19th, 2017 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse +1@TH
Oct 19th, 2017 - 12:20 pm - Link - Report abuse -1ROFL. I'm sorry, but those are the lamest insults I've ever heard. Did you get them from a 50 year old jokebook or something?
Demonstrator the slavish follower
Oct 19th, 2017 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So in spite of your claim to the contrary you are unable to substantiate it. Long on blow, short on show.
“It is better to be silent and thought to be ignorant then to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.”
“Take nothing on its looks; take everything on evidence. There's no better rule,” Charles Dickens
You have delusions of adequacy.
Slavish follower of who?
Oct 19th, 2017 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse -1And unable to substantiate what? That you will never admit you are wrong? I think this thread where I patiently try to explain to you that cutting words out of your quote gives a misleading impression, while you try to deny it using a sequence of laughable arguments and ad hominem attacks, gives a good demonstration:
http://en.mercopress.com/2017/09/08/end-of-the-line-ex-minister-and-confident-claims-lula-da-silva-accepted-us-100-million-from-odebrecht/comments#comment473402
Of course, you won't admit it this time, either, thereby proving my point yet again.
Demonstrator the slavish follower
Oct 19th, 2017 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“Slavish follower of who” JB you supported anything that he posted even after it was proven to be deliberately untrue. So much that you are virtually joined at the hip.
“so if its 'truth' is unsupported, then it follows it cannot be true”
You attempted this sophism at the end of along wrangle by you in favour of JB in “Obama blasts those who build walls ..” Which was refuted at the end of “Deutsche bank in danger zone ..”
“That cutting words out of your quote gives a misleading impression” Which was answered in full. “They only possibly could be that if a citation was omitted, otherwise it’s just nit-picking as there is no requirement to include the complete citation. Anymore than the writer of the original article (does)“
Well, I said you wouldn't admit it and you just proved me right. ;)
Oct 19th, 2017 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse -1How can I be following someone who's not even here? I disagree with you because you are wrong, and I certainly don't support everything JB posts; I disagree with him on virtually every subject.
And I haven't forgotten our long debate about your absurd assertion, which anyone sane can see is false with a moment's thought.
For anyone else reading, Terence Hill said this:
“So if its 'truth' is unsupported, then it follows it cannot be true”
Yes, he is saying that if you claim something and choose not to prove it, that automatically makes it false. For example, if I claimed to be a human being and didn't prove it, that proves I am not human, according to genius Terry.
And the best part was what he said after I asked him to prove it was true:
“So while I'm unable to meet my burden, my assertion may still be the correct one, since there in no evidence too the contrary.”
Sadly he is unable to see how this totally contradicts his daft claim.
And this is why I say you can never prove anything to Terry, because he will never ever admit he is wrong, no matter how bloody obvious it is to all rational observers.
Demonstrator the slavish follower
Oct 19th, 2017 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“Well, I said you wouldn't admit it and you just proved me right.”
No I didn’t as your deceit is at http://en.mercopress.com/2016/09/21/obama-blasts-those-who-build-walls-fuelled-by-nationalism-sectarian-hatred-and-economic-inequality/comments#comment450921 and was refuted thus:
“That is all completely wrong from start to finish …It being the obligation of one person to prove something does not make it compulsory” I'm afraid the dictionary definition is not so charitable.
obligation noun an act or course of action to which a person is morally or legally bound; a duty or commitment:
compulsory, a. and n. 1. a.A.1.a Depending on or produced by compulsion; compelled, forced, enforced, OBLIGATORY.
OED v4.0.app
“Thoughts are either true or false in an absolute sense,” is also untrue,“ Not according to: Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy; States of Affairs; First published Tue Mar 27, 2012
plato.stanford.edu/entries/states-of-affairs/
”So your conclusion does not follow and is in fact false.” What an incredibly huge amount of missteps, and what an enormous amount of crow you're going to have eat in view of your errors.
Ah, Terry. I can't prove it to you because you don't know what proof is; you admitted yourself you don't understand simple logic.
Oct 19th, 2017 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is a game one can play with a dictionary: take a word and create a chain of synonyms, with the final word meaning the opposite of the one you started with. I suspect you would find this very confusing.
However, I will address this:
“Thoughts are either true or false in an absolute sense.”
This is not true, You can write a paradoxical statement, which is neither true nor false, for example:
“This statement is false.”
There are also statements that cannot be proven to be true, for example, that two parallel lines will never meet. If you assume it, you get Euclidean geometry, and if you don't, you get other geometries. Clearly it is not true in an absolute sense.
Demonstrator the slavish follower
Oct 19th, 2017 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“What he said after I asked him to prove it was true:
So while I'm unable to meet my burden, my assertion may still be the correct one, since there in no evidence too the contrary.”
You have just attempted to claim that a citation in part is misleading, and now have engaged in fraud by omission which is ‘speaking out of both sides of your mouth’ on the same issue.
The complete statement says: “So if its 'truth' is unsupported, then it follows it cannot be true” Certainly based on the following further required legal obligation. “.. Thus, who keeps silent consents; silence means consent; silent consent is same as expressed consent; consent by conduct is as good as expressed consent. This is an implied term in law....”
SOMA'S DICTIONARY OF LATIN QUOTATIONS MAXIMS AND PHRASES
Plus, links to fourth er frauds by you.
http://en.mercopress.com/2016/09/27/deutsche-bank-in-danger-zone-shares-down-50-this-year-and-sliding/comments#comment451316
What on earth are you trying to say? Please cut out the irrelevant bullshit quotes and links, and say what it is that you imagine I omitted.
Oct 19th, 2017 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Also, I did not claim that a citation in part is misleading, I claimed that a citation in part CAN BE misleading. I know you will not understand the difference, but I don't want my words misrepresented.
Demonstrator the slavish follower
Oct 19th, 2017 - 10:28 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Say what it is that … I omitted.”
It’s not a mystery. “The complete statement says”. What about this is you don’t understand?
“But your quotes are rather misleading” to which the rebuttal is, not if the original source is included.
Further to your contradictory fraud. “People call it arguing out of both sides of your mouth,“ The Purposeful Argument: A Practical Guide By Harry Phillips, Patricia Bostian.
“He is not to be heard who alleges things contradictory to each other.” This elementary rule of logic expresses, in technical language, the saying that a man shall not be permitted to “blow hot and cold” with reference to the same transaction, or insist, at different times, on the truth of each of two conflicting allegations, according to the promptings of his private interest. Says the Satyr, if you have gotten a trick of blowing hot and cold out of the same mouth, I've e'en done“ with ye.' en.wikiquote.org/wiki
Psst..I'll let you into a secret...
Oct 19th, 2017 - 10:38 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Terry doesn't know what he's trying to say...
He relies on the the same “part” quotes time and again...
I don't know how many times I've posted the other part of LAWS OF WAR By H. W. HALLECK, 1866, CHAPTER XXXIV, TREATIES OF PEACE.
The bit he always omits...
§ 11. CLAIMS UNCONNECTED WITH CAUSES OF THE WAR. A TREATY OF
PEACE DOES NOT EXTINGUISH CLAIMS UNCONNECTED WITH THE CAUSE OF
THE WAR. Debts, existing prior to the war, and injuries com-
mitted prior to the war, but which made no part of the reasons
for undertaking it, remain entire, and the remedies are revived.
...I don't think he's a full shilling
Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire and mythology major
Oct 19th, 2017 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for raising an issue in which you were previously soundly trounced. Raising an issue that you’ve previously lost is fraud in legal terms it’s estopped as being Res judicata
“The only time that S.11 was used was on behalf of British claims, not Argentina thus “...Vice-President Marcos Paz opened Congress on 1 May 1866, and in his Message mentioned some old claims for private losses by British citizens: The British Government has accepted the President of the Republic of Chile as arbitrator in the reclamation pending with the Argentine Republic, for damages suffered by English subjects in 1845. This question, which is the only one between us and the British nation, has not yet been settled. The wording of that statement is perfectly clear - apart from the question of personal claims for damages, there was no dispute between Argentina and Britain. The Falklands were no longer an issue between the two countries. ...” Getting it right: the real history of the Falklands/Malvinas by Graham Pascoe and Peter Pepper. Therefore your assertion that “...Argentina's claim was not extinguished....” Is directly refuted by two presidents and one vice-president. As well as the subsequent quiescence between 1850 and 1941, except for one protest in 1888.”
http://en.mercopress.com/2015/06/11/falklands-triggers-strong-reply-from-cameron-when-timerman-brings-up-the-issue-at-celac-eu-summit/comments#comment401624
@Voice
Oct 19th, 2017 - 11:48 pm - Link - Report abuse -1He's like a man who has gathered a huge pile of bricks and thinks he's built a house, and keeps insisting to passers by that it's a house, and starts insulting them when they point out that it's just a big pile of bricks.
Totally delusional.
I guess you'll just have to keep pointing it out when he tries to mislead people with partial quotations.
Oh I see H. W. HALLECK was specifically talking about Vice-President Marcos Paz's speech at Congress on 1 May 1866....
Oct 19th, 2017 - 11:59 pm - Link - Report abuse -1...for a moment there I thought he was talking about general Peace Treaties and how they only relate to the causes of wars and how claims, debts and injuries unconnected to the cause of the war are not extinguished...
As far as I'm aware the Argentine claim and the British claim existed before and after the treaty...
Is it a different LAWS OF WAR By H. W. HALLECK, 1866, CHAPTER XXXIV, TREATIES OF PEACE. that you are reading...?
Or perhaps you don't understand what you are reading...?
Which is it...?
Demonstrator the slavish follower
Oct 20th, 2017 - 12:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Quiet in the cheap seats. You’ve just confirmed that you have nothing of substance to contribute, and that all your nonsense has been refuted. But you’re not going to man-up, you’re going to sulk like the little bitch you really are.
DemonTree
Oct 20th, 2017 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse -1He just doesn't see when he's wrong..
He believes the Convention of Settlement (Peace Treaty) extinguishes the Argentine Claim despite never being mentioned by either party...
He “part” quotes Halleck to make his point that it is extinguished whilst Halleck specifically states the opposite...in the part he doesn't quote...
Why does he think he is right...
He will wait another couple of months and quote it again..guaranteed....;-)
Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire and mythology majorare.
Oct 20th, 2017 - 12:29 am - Link - Report abuse -1“Debts and injuries unconnected to the cause of the war are not extinguished…” Quite true as civil liabilities go, the only ones were British and Argentina paid them. According to your own congressional records. Argentina had no such claims. “He just doesn't see when he's wrong.” “Your unqualified and unsupported opinion versus the opinions of ten experts of international law. Well! that’s a no brainer, blink if you can hear me..”
So give it as your BS as per usual, has been thoroughly discredited yet again.
§ 11. CLAIMS UNCONNECTED WITH CAUSES OF THE WAR
Oct 20th, 2017 - 12:34 am - Link - Report abuse -1..is the title
not civil liabilities unconnected with the causes of war....
You are still part quoting only the bits you like....;-))
It's not my opinion it's what he wrote...
@Voice
Oct 20th, 2017 - 12:41 am - Link - Report abuse -3I'm sure you are right. I know it can't possibly be as clear cut as people here make out, because otherwise the UK government wouldn't rely on self-determination so much. But then what is the real truth?
Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire and mythology majorare.
Oct 20th, 2017 - 12:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Debts and injuries are civil liabilities which were paid to British citizens. Hmm! 10 experts versus the opinion of a confirmed liar. Well! That’s a no brainer, blink if you can hear me..
I always think it's funny when British people talk about other countries' state political matters and legalities in their government with the self vested authority of interpretation! As if they created that country and now talk about its performance ! lol (I know some of you are right now thinking “Well , .... ”)
Oct 20th, 2017 - 01:46 pm - Link - Report abuse -1We know why the Constitution needed to be amended regarding Malvinas, it's more fundamental reasons precede its wording. So don't worry, we are still the owners of our own Constitution and can proceed with our own interpretation and changes, if that is what we need to do.
On the next issue, Swede; How we live our patriotism is our own business and not so different at all to how British students chant “Britannia rule the waves”. To clarify, we sing about Malvinas, because it is invasive matter of British belligerence important to our hearts in the same way that America's anthem speaks of defeating the invasive British as well. You're country is one of the biggest bullies on the planet. You're record stands alone, if yet seemingly passive and slow to act, it uses its military force or suggestion to win disputes over matters than could easily be resolved diplomatically. For this reason, the only ones in this picture that have been severely brainwashed and whose spirit of freedom has been diffused nearly entirely, are the Islanders themselves.
Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire and mythology major.
Oct 20th, 2017 - 02:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hmm! 10 international law experts versus the opinion of one who can’t even put a reasoned argument forward. Whom engages in specious reasoning, with a familiarity of a viveza criolla user. Well, That’s a no brainer, blink if you can hear me..
Demonstrator the slavish follower
“..it can't possibly be as clear cut as people here make out, because otherwise the UK government wouldn't rely on self-determination so much” Whats that slavish sucking sound?
“I doubt you can understand the magnitude of the stupidity in your statement” Robert Jordan.
Why wouldn’t they? When legally, it is the ‘ace in the hole’ as it trumps any and all other legal considerations.
“I always think it's funny when British people talk about other countries' state political matters and legalities in their government...”
Oct 20th, 2017 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Why? People all over the world think themselves qualified to discuss US politics and policies, or to say they think swearing allegiance to a flag is weird and fascistic. British students don't chant “Britannia rule the waves” (though well done for getting the name right). Overt displays of patriotism are more an American thing, apparently South American as well as North American.
But the difference to me is this: if America had lost their Revolutionary war, their country may well not exist today, certainly not in its present form. Whereas, if the 'Malvinas' had always been Argentine, the biggest difference is that most people would not care about them very much. If I zapped you to that alternate universe, what you'd notice is the lack of signs everywhere, the islands probably wouldn't be on the money, and school children would not be singing songs about them.
(And by the way, in 1776 the Americans were 'invasive British' themselves, as the Argentines were 'invasive Spanish' in 1810. Each is now a separate and unique country and people.)
“For this reason, the only ones in this picture that have been severely brainwashed and whose spirit of freedom has been diffused nearly entirely, are the Islanders themselves.”
After complaining about British people discussing other countries' political matters, you think it's fine to declare that a group of people you have never met are all brainwashed? Have you gone there, have you talked to them? Do you understand why they think as they do?
@TH
Voice is quoting from the same book as you, relying on the same legal experts. If you disagree, it is YOU who is against 10 law experts, and I prefer the experts.
“Why wouldn’t they?” (Rely on self-determination.)
Because Argentina does not accept it, and the C24 has never accepted it. If they could instead rely on a treaty then they would have.
uhu .. ya sure
Oct 20th, 2017 - 03:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Demon Tree: There are the teenagers, trying to tear down walls. They come back this Saturday.
Oct 20th, 2017 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse -1@Patrick Edgar
Oct 20th, 2017 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you disagree with anything in particular?
@Malvi
I hope they are having a good trip and enjoy themselves. I don't expect them to tear down any walls in a week, but hopefully they will learn something and understand the history better.
Yes. The stupidity of British policy and Falklander attitude . It's not good for the future children who may want to continue seeing the islands as their home country. But then again... that's not the easiest thing to imagine. It's easier to imagine it will continue being a British outpost with a military expansionist purpose.
Oct 20th, 2017 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire and mythology major.
Oct 20th, 2017 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hmm! 10 international law experts versus the opinion of one who can’t even put a reasoned argument forward. Whom engages in specious reasoning, with a familiarity of a viveza criolla user. Well, That’s a no brainer, blink if you can hear me..
Demonstrator the slavish follower
“..it can't possibly be as clear cut as people here make out, because otherwise the UK government wouldn't rely on self-determination so much” Whats that slavish sucking sound?
“I doubt you can understand the magnitude of the stupidity in your statement” Robert Jordan.
Why wouldn’t they? When legally, it is the ‘ace in the hole’ as it trumps any and all other legal considerations.
Patrick E, the Falklands will be British long after you and Argentina have turned to dust and been appropriately forgotten.
Oct 20th, 2017 - 05:52 pm - Link - Report abuse +1@Patrick Edgar
Oct 20th, 2017 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse +1So two things I said nothing about? It's not a surprise you didn't reply with specifics then.
And it must be you who thinks Mount Pleasant is a NATO base designed to invade Argentina. But then what is so stupid about British policy? If the point is to have a military base there, it seems to be working.
You can always tell when Terry feels he's lost an argument, (without of course admitting it), he repeatedly addresses me even though I have ceased replying...;-)
Oct 20th, 2017 - 05:57 pm - Link - Report abuse -1DemonTree
There is an exception...every year one will hear Students singing Rule Britannia....
Last Night of the Proms...;-)
...love it...
Mr. Voice...
Oct 20th, 2017 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse -1And you can always tell when Terry feels he's lost an argument, (without of course admitting it), he repeatedly addresses me even though I never even replied... ;-)
Demonstrator the slavish follower
Oct 20th, 2017 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Voice is engaging in sophism using the same book. You obviously either can’t comprehend you’re being conned, or don’t care as you seem to be blindingly indifferent. § 11 and 12 are not interdependent on one another. They are separate entities, the former relates to private losses, and the latter is the legally binding constraints on nations, as to their post treaty entitlements.
“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” Harlan Ellison
So enjoy your obvious limitations, but don’t try foist your ignorance on me. As I’ve spent too many years dealing with such matters as ‘statuary interpretation’.
Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire and mythology major
“You can always tell when Terry feels he's lost an argument” In your humbly biased subjective opinion, give your head a shake.
Mr. Think...
Oct 20th, 2017 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse -1....good one ;-)
@Voice
Oct 20th, 2017 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Fair enough, I have never watched it.
It's ironic that Terry's quotes describe himself and his arguments so perfectly. If only he'd take his own advice.
Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire and mythology major
Oct 20th, 2017 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Surely a person, such as yourself who has to engage in sock-puppetry must have serious doubts about the merits of their position. Otherwise, why would they rely on such fraudulent practises?
P.E.
Oct 20th, 2017 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse +1“British outpost with a military expansionist purpose.”
Please expand on this ludicrous statement. Are we going to enslave the penguin colonies or corral the whales with our nuclear subs. acting as sheepdogs.
Or maybe we are going to invade Argentina and make it into a British colony....might be good for you but not for us.
Malvi 1833 - those teenagers asked that the Argentine flag be allowed to fly over the Darwin Cemetery. That's wall building.
Oct 20th, 2017 - 10:59 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Demonstrator the slavish follower
Oct 21st, 2017 - 03:40 am - Link - Report abuse +2“It's ironic that..” Stated by one whom is driven only by his own personal agenda. Who hasn’t got the faintest inkling of subject he makes pronouncements on. Thereby, displaying the most appalling ignorance. I can only hope that this record is maintained so future researchers can see that homo neanderthalensis had survived as far as this late date.
It will be interesting to see if any of the students is permitted to write about and share their experiences (students that is, not the minders and puppeteers). I have no doubt some of them will have a view that is different to the one they arrived with.........but dare they say anything ??
Oct 21st, 2017 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse +2Commenting for this story is now closed.
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