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Montevideo, October 22nd 2018 - 14:35 UTC

”Falklands (UK)” reference in Heineken H41 beer bottles condemned in Argentine social networks

Wednesday, April 25th 2018 - 08:39 UTC
Full article 70 comments

Heineken brewery has been caught red handed with one of its beers' label referring to the disputed South Atlantic islands as “Falklands” and in brackets saying they belong to the United Kingdom, despite the fact the Dutch company is using Patagonian yeast. Read full article

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  • Brit Bob

    '....with its label of a South American map referring to the Malvinas as Falklands and pointing out they belong to UK, '

    Is that a problem?

    Oh I forgot, the islands were usurped - 'on 3 January 1833 a British Royal Navy corvette with the support of another warship in the vicinity, threatened to use greater force and demanded the surrender and handover of the settlement.' And 'The act of force of 1833, carried out in peacetime without prior communication or declaration by a government friendly to the Argentine Republic...'

    Oh whoopie doo!

    Falkland Islands – The Usurpation (1 pg): https://www.academia.edu/34838377/Falkland_Islands_The_Usurpation

    Apr 25th, 2018 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse +4
  • James Marshall

    'Heineken brewery has been caught red handed '...only if you are Argentinian, the rest of the the world doesn't care.......where was this beer sold again......

    Hmmm Dutch company, that is in Europe isn't it. So a European non latin based country should use the name 'Malvinas' and refer to them as Argentine.....Only in your dreams, Jog on half wits, you are just embarrassing yourselves

    Apr 25th, 2018 - 12:39 pm - Link - Report abuse +6
  • Marti Llazo

    According to informed sources, baseless Argentine wingeing is up 4.7 percent so far this year.

    Apr 25th, 2018 - 01:08 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • The Voice

    Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup!!!!!!!!

    Bahahahahahahaha

    Heineken refreshes the parts that other beers cannot reach!

    The Malvinas is actually spelt Falklands… ;-))))))))))))))))))

    Chuckle chuckle

    Apr 25th, 2018 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse +5
  • bushpilot

    There was an Argentine who went to Europe and while in Europe found a beer label from there he did not like.

    When he was back home, he tweeted about it.

    And, MP finds a story in that.

    Apr 25th, 2018 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • The Voice

    Is there such a thing as Falklands Ale? Could be an export opportunity because,I dont suppose the Argies have got any proper beer only that gassy lager stuff brewed by the resident Krauts. Could be a popular choice.

    Apr 25th, 2018 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • bushpilot

    The lager yeast mentioned here is a hybrid with only half of its genetic makeup coming from Patagonia.

    But, maybe Argentina should claim that half of the yeast. Europe might be exploiting them in this case.

    Maybe make a claim to it at the next C24 meeting.

    Apr 25th, 2018 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse +5
  • Zaphod Beeblebrox

    “Heineken brewery has been caught red handed” implies they have done something wrong but the facts are that the occupants call their islands the “Falklands” and they belong to the United Kingdom so it is not a “very serious mistake, error” simply a statement of facts.

    “it immediately became a viral success in the social networks according to the Buenos Aires media” and Heineken are probably loving the free publicity! :-D I wasn't aware of this beer but now I want to try it if I ever see it!

    “Heineken has a ten year exclusive license to produce Patagonian yeast.” Does that licence have a “no-Falklands” clause? If not, so what?

    “a limited edition elaborated with a special yeast discovered in Argentine Patagonia.”

    Elaborated? I think the word is fermented.

    “The name H41 refers to the coordinates of the beech forest in Patagonia where the special yeast discovery occurred originally, and which is used in the elaboration of 95% of industrial beers in the world, underlines the Buenos Aires media.”

    Yes, but it is a wild yeast ancestor of those modern brewing yeasts. It took Heineken two years to develop it into something useful (and therefore different to the original yeast) so it is not like it is something than magically produces great beer-the opposite in fact. Wild yeasts produce horrible flavours in beer.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/26/heineken-unveils-h41-a-beer-that-puts-yeast-into-focus.html

    Apr 25th, 2018 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Think

    To bring some piss of mind to them turnips reacting about this important piss of news...

    Firstly...:
    After being caught redhanded..., Heineken has apologized to us Argies for their grave mistakes on the labeling for the Frog market..., and promised to withdraw and change them fallacious labels immediately...
    http://www.notitdf.com/noticias/leer/28631-heineken-solicitara-que-cambien-las-etiquetas-cerveza-que-muestra-las-malvinas-como-inglesas.html

    Secondly...:
    The withdrawal of them spurious labels was also imprescindible because the Frogs got even the geographical procedence of the ancestral Patagonian mother of all yeasts wrong...
    They wrote on them delusive labels that they had found the yeast in a forest at 71°W 41°S...
    Well..., I know me Patagonia..., and there ain't no forests at 71°W 41°S..., nooo Sir...:
    confluence.org/photo.php?visitid=9843&pic=8



    Thirdly...:
    The withdrawal of them misleading labels was also essential not to offend the special sensibilities of them Engrish Kelper Falklandists..., currently squatting in Malvinas...
    If you look carefully at them spurious labels..., them Frogs didn't write “ Îles Falklands”...
    Nooooo Sir..., they wrote “ Île Falkland”...
    And what's even worse..., they draw that lonely Falkland Island as something that strongly reminded me of the cookies me grandchildren used to bake in Kindergarten...

    Chuckle..., chuckle...

    Apr 25th, 2018 - 08:08 pm - Link - Report abuse -7
  • Roger Lorton

    Île Falkland? The French do so love the old names :-)

    https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/1748-anson-map-in-gallagher-1964.jpg

    While I Think about it, this from Clayton's remarks to the Royal Society in January, 1776 regarding Falkland's Isle and the harbour of Port Egmont.

    “Falkland's Islands, or, as the Spaniards and French call them, the Malonie (sic) Islands, are situated between the latitude of 52° 26 and 51° 6 S. they are numberless, forming a mass of broken high lands, or very low sedgy keys and sunken rocks. The largest is the easternmost island, and on the eastern side the Spaniards had a settlement, which the Crown of Spain purchased of M. Bougainville, who on his private account, had formed a settlement in the year 1764,...

    Adjoining to the second large island, to the westward, lies Saunders Island, on which the English settlement was made, a blockhouse erected, several spots inclosed for gardens and three storehouses, and five dwelling-houses or huts, built at different times by the ships crews who were stationed there.

    The harbour of Port Egmont was formed by these islands, and another high, barren, rocky island, named Kepple's Island, and some lesser islands to the N.E. And eastward, and was entirely land-locked, or inclosed by the land on every point; it was very spacious; the bottom was muddy and good holding ground. From the hills through the bogs drained several runs of water, and as the landing-places were good, and a natural small cove for boats to lie in safety on the north side of Saunders Island, sheltered from the S.W. Winds, it induced Captain Macbride to make settlement on it. …”

    So, contrary to Groussac's 1910 theory, rather more than just Saunders Island was delivered up in 1771.

    Apr 25th, 2018 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse +6
  • Capt Rockhopper

    OK, where can I get a case? I am already a criminal in Argentina, I have shares in Rockhopper, bought them as soon as Kirchner decreed that it was a criminal offence to own shares in oil companies searching for oil around the Falklands. Probably the best beer in the South Atlantic.

    Apr 26th, 2018 - 01:49 am - Link - Report abuse +4
  • The Voice

    Hearing Twinkles gutteral tones and clipped vowels reminds me of those old films featuring goose stepping folk wearing coal scuttle helmets. He needs to learn to speak English proper. Have we forgotten that memorable Heineken lesson delivered so long ago? ;-)))))))) Juppppppppppp!

    https://youtu.be/u4VFqbroi1I

    Apr 26th, 2018 - 06:38 am - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Zaphod Beeblebrox

    “...piss ...turnips ...piss of news ... Frog ... imprescindible ... Frogs ... procedence ... delusive labels ... nooo ... Engrish ... Falklandists... cookies ... Chuckle..., chuckle...”

    I think that Think has overdosed on the H41.

    Apr 26th, 2018 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse +5
  • Voice

    Unless you are reading something different from me Roger...Port Egmont, Saunders Island..fort, bunkhouse gardens etc was all that was delivered up in 1771...by treaty...

    Clayton's remarks don't mean shit...
    Also...
    Found any historical evidence of any settlers from Saunders Island yet...Names from the ships logs etc...
    I don't think there ever was any...propaganda for the spies to feed on...
    There was always two ships staying there for a year...that's at least two hundred folk...
    Not enough buildings from the Spanish drawings to even house them...Not enough supplies either... zero wood and the sailors supplemented the rations with penguins eggs...
    Sailors built the town and sailors stayed there....I reckon, unless you have some proof to the contrary...
    No hundred souls...

    Apr 27th, 2018 - 11:47 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Roger Lorton

    Still in denial Voice?

    Port Egmont was more than just Saunders Island.

    As for the settlers, all reports mention 100; and I'm still researching that.

    At least Clayton was there.

    What you think or reckon also means shit ......

    Apr 27th, 2018 - 11:57 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Voice

    One report mentions 100...Fakes news along with the exaggerated defences...for a foreign audience...

    Your sketchy part..selective historically biased account does you no favours...either do it properly or don't do it at all...
    If there was no settlers...there was no settlement...

    Apr 28th, 2018 - 12:09 am - Link - Report abuse -4
  • Roger Lorton

    I give you contemporaneous evidence and you tell me what you “think”.

    I produce contemporaneous charts and you tell me what you “reckon”.

    The evidence regard what constituted Port Egmont is clear enough to all but a fool.

    You waste my time boy.

    https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/detail-from-macbride-1766-pub-1773.png

    Apr 28th, 2018 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Voice

    You haven't given me anything...
    I gave you the location and the reference to historical documents that prove the matter...
    Also it wouldn't be the first time that the first voyage was confused with the second...
    One hundred souls plus at least two hundred sailors apparently left those Islands on one 14 gun sloop...I reckon not. If they did it would certainly be worth mentioning...historically...

    What do you give me...zilch...
    I'm seriously considering booking an appointment to view and dumping the information on your lazy can't be arsed, half assed laurels...

    Apr 28th, 2018 - 12:44 am - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Roger Lorton

    I give you a contemporary account.

    You give me - “Clayton's remarks don't mean shit...”

    And you believe that that is a counter argument.

    Ridiculous

    As for the settlers, as I've said - the reports (plural) said 100 and my research continues.

    You've made yourself look foolish, yet again. Perhaps Friday nights aren't your best time?

    Apr 28th, 2018 - 02:00 am - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Think

    Rodge..., me friendly Engrish copper...
    When are you going to realise that the one that is in denial is you...?

    I have been telling you for years that...: “Your selective historically biased account does you no favours...either do it properly or don't do it at all...”

    Young Engrishman Mr. DemonTree has been telling you for weeks that...: “Your selective historically biased account does you no favours...either do it properly or don't do it at all...”

    Mysterious Scottish resident Mr.Voice just told you that...: “Your selective historically biased account does you no favours...either do it properly or don't do it at all...”

    (And you certainly can't accuse the last two for Argie sympathies..., just for Thinking clearly... ;-)

    CAPISCE...?

    Apr 28th, 2018 - 11:51 am - Link - Report abuse -6
  • The Voice

    RL I dont suppose you will be acting on the advice of an Aah Gee Vegetable or a couple of supposed UK resident quislings. So just keep up the interesting (historical) work. Interesting but of no real relavence in tbe 21st Century.
    If there is ever any further official challenge from Argieland nothing will change because the interests and desires of the long term Falklands population will remain paramount.

    Apr 28th, 2018 - 01:08 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Roger Lorton

    The Voice - It is well recognised that Think ...................... doesn't.

    And you are correct that the relevance today is purely theoretical, the Islanders rights to self-determination having long ago superseded the detail of history. BUT, the alternative as a retired expat is that I spend all day in the bar ........... better to keep my mind busy.

    Apr 28th, 2018 - 11:32 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    I haven't been saying that, but I do agree that if he's going to do it, he should do it properly.

    @Voice
    Do it!

    Apr 29th, 2018 - 08:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree...
    Neither have I...
    Not in Mr. Voice's strikingly precise phrasing... that is...
    But I borrowed it because I agree with every word on it... Don't you...?

    Mr. Roger Lorton...
    What BAR...?
    Your Missus took good care of that years ago...
    You are out there in Nowhereshire..., miles away from any decent (or undecent) drinkery..., remember...;-)

    Apr 29th, 2018 - 10:03 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Roger Lorton

    DT - I am. There's just so much of 'it'. In the last 3 days, for example, I have skimmed through 7000 news reports from London & Provincial newspapers for the 18th & 19th centuries; have downloaded 370 for further examination and now need to see an optician.

    Think - As you haven't read the Timeline, how would you know? And please, before you say that you read it years ago, today's is a very different, and very much larger (detailed), beast. I even quote Argentines. Being read in Argentina I hear. Cited most recently by your very own International Law lawyers Pena y Pena. Strangely enough I find that I have also been thanked for my assistance by another author who I cannot remember at all. Bellingshausen? Not sure I could have added very much there, but grateful for the acknowledgement.

    And you are correct about the absence of bars. Fortunately, the (relatively) local Macro does a fine trade in Bombadier from the Well's Brewery. I survive.

    Apr 29th, 2018 - 10:45 am - Link - Report abuse +4
  • DemonTree

    @RL
    Lol, but you're right about keeping your mind busy, even if it's bad for your eyesight.

    Thailand must be a very different country to here, I reckon you'd struggle to get more than 10 miles from the nearest pub in England. Maybe if you went to remote parts of Scotland you could push it a bit further?

    Voice, how far away is your local?

    Apr 29th, 2018 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Don't tell him Pike...!
    He's a NAZI Quisling...
    He just wants to add you to Ze Lizt...
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G1HwKA0J-gU

    Apr 29th, 2018 - 02:09 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    ♫ Whistle while you work
    Hitler is a twerp
    he's half barmy
    so's his army
    whistle while you work ♫

    I don't have a list. Wait, what are you planning to do to the people on yours?

    Apr 29th, 2018 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. Roger Lorton...

    As to say..., I haven't looked into your biased Engish Timeline about the Falklands/Malvinas Islands history since loooooong ago...

    You tell me now that it is today a very different, and very much larger (detailed), beast. You even ***“Quote Argentines”*** on it...!!!

    Well... I suppose that ***“Quoting Argentines”*** when writing about an Anglo-Argentinean conflict must be a painful revolutionary cultural chock for you...

    Anyhow... Judging by your fresh discussion with Mr. DemonTree and humble me..., about the paramount importance of a letter “S”..., written by an Engrish tabloid as an unequivocal proof that MercoPenguin wasn't lying through is theet on yet another article..., doesn't just encourage me to give that Timeline of yours another try...

    Not to mention your ***“Jounalistic Argentine Spanish Language Primary Source”***... written in awfull Spanglish by a retired MI6 Egrishman currently pushing weapons in Colombia through a dodgy “Defence Info” website...

    Let's face it Rodge...
    Your Timeline is like those shiny Rolex's one buys for £100 quid in Pattaya...
    Nice on the outside..., but you know perfectly what's inside...
    So do I...

    Apr 29th, 2018 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse -4
  • DemonTree

    I did think it was odd Roger said that article was a Argentine source; it was obvious from the first paragraph that it wasn't.

    But I assume he puts a bit more effort into his timeline, and Think, if you haven't looked at it then you DON'T know what's inside. You just don't want to put the effort in to find out, and until you do, your opinion is not worth a whole hell of a lot.

    Apr 29th, 2018 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Roger Lorton

    I assumed that the article was Argentine without checking, which was an error, but then I did'nt believe that it was a very important story. Argentine Ministers not saying the correct things for Malvinista ears attracts relatively little attention these days. Even the TV interview didn't run. The Macri effect. Some days I do rather miss the frenetic nonsense of CFK.

    I put a great deal more effort into the Timeline than I do on these pages. Think is just making excuses as usual. As a dyed in the wool Malvinista he doesn't want to read anything that may be uncomfortable. It's a religion. To be told your God does not exist can be disturbing to the faithful.

    It is of little consequence.

    The more I dig, the more I know. In truth the picture often becomes more confused. Some of the articles I've been going through refer to the 1764 - 1771 period. Obviously in view of other conversations I've been looking out for any more information on MacBride and the supposed settlers. MacBride has proved difficult. not helped by an inability to get his name right. I searched on MacBride & McBride but only by accident spotted that a number of journals used M'Bride. Very little. Less than on Byron's voyage. Mentions of Settlement not Settlers but also 'Private Men' which is a phrase that I need to understand better. He took a party of 'Private Men'. No women. Interestingly Bougainville's French settlement is described as having 115 inhabitants AND 15 women. MacBride was introduced the King George on his return, a notable honour, but there's no indication of what he had done.

    When I get to the UK I do need to find his papers.

    What is also clear is that few people actually had any idea of where the islands were or how they were made up. Overwhelmingly the perception by both the French and the English is of one Island with broken islets around it.

    Amazing just how close we actually came to war over them in 1770.

    Apr 29th, 2018 - 10:47 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Boy....

    Fake Rolex'es have evolved exponentially in the last 10 o so years too... (as Rodge's Timeline)
    The best ones are impossible to distinguish from the outside and they even put ETA-2892's inside to give them the right precison, sound and vibration...

    But they are still false as hell and I'm not buying none..., as I'm not reading the Engrish coppers selective historically biased Timeline...

    By the way...
    I seem to remember that the copper had a candid prologue in the first versions of hs work...
    Something about he being an Engrishan feeling pissed with Argentina and wanting to put “things right” somehow....
    Wonder if those lines still pride the first page of is “Historical” work...?

    Apr 29th, 2018 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse -4
  • Roger Lorton

    You seem to remember Think? We've already established that your memory is a doubtful source. But I'm glad that you have given me the opportunity to get back.

    A page from a 1770 paper gives a flavour of the war preparations once news of the Spanish attack reached London. So I've posted it for those that do actually like to know about these details.

    https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/oxford-journal-saturday-29-september-1770.pdf

    Apr 29th, 2018 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Voice

    There's no flies on me Mr. Think...;-)

    DemonTree

    I read Roger's Timeline and the embellishments...yes there have been more details added, there are still many links to the older versions floating about too...
    There is never anything new included that is contrary to his point of view though...
    He is an armchair historian sourcing from the internet...
    That military base was no settlement, certainly not like the French one, The Royal Navy controlled and supplied it...two ships always stationed there for a year at a time. The Master sent requisitions and reports back to Blighty...
    The Royal Navy kept meticulous records, names numbers, dates, supplies who arrived who left...all those records still exist and are archived and referenced and most are not available online...
    Roger's settlement is pure propaganda, Jasons Town was nothing more than a facade built by the Navy and used by the Navy to give the appearance of a settlement...
    No settlers left because no settlers were there... only sailors and Royal Marines...

    Prove me wrong Roger...

    Apr 29th, 2018 - 11:11 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Roger Lorton

    Still in your cups Voice? I have no idea whether I can prove your conjecture wrong, my research continues.

    All those records still exist? Do they? If so, they are proving damned hard to track down. But please, if you feel you can do better, go do the research and let me know. I rather suspect that even if I can prove you wrong, you - like Think - will simply not accept it. You are blinded by your dislike of the English. It affects your thinking. Sad really.

    I'll let you know what I find, obviously.

    Apr 29th, 2018 - 11:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Voice

    I gave you the reference of the log of the Sloop Favourite the very ship and journals mentioned in your linked article above...
    They are in the National Maritime museum...
    You need to book to view they are not available online...
    No mention of settlers in your link either...so none on the Favourite...
    Did they leave with Hunt...?
    Certainly not the store Ship Florida...too small...
    I bet Byrons voyage has been confused with McBrides...

    Apr 29th, 2018 - 11:32 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    You're perfectly entitled not to read it, and I'm perfectly entitled to think your opinion is worth exactly the number of pages you've read: zero.

    I don't see any prologue like you describe, although there is a picture of a medal he got from the Falklanders. If that was why he started researching I suspect he's gone well beyond that now.

    @RL
    It wasn't a very important story, but even there I think if you're going to comment you should do it right. The way the article you linked to was written certainly didn't make it sound like an Argentine publication, so I'm surprised you didn't check. As for CFK, she certainly had more entertainment value, but I guess it's worth losing that in order to have better relations.

    “In truth the picture often becomes more confused.”

    Indeed. Seems odd they would think it was one island though, when Falkland sound seems to be pretty much the only feature shown on some of the early maps.

    How much of your timeline is sourced from the internet?

    @Voice
    There's quite a few things in there contrary to his point of view, don't know whether they're new or not. Apparently there was enough for those Argentine lawyers to use it as a source for their book.

    You're claiming the settlement was propaganda at the time, aimed at who, the French? Why wouldn't they take a few settlers with them, then?

    Apr 29th, 2018 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    DemonTree

    Yes the French... they knew fine well the French had establised a settlement there...
    The expedition was clandestine and in haste to get establish a “settlement” before the French knew...
    Where would they find settlers so quickly and who would volunteer to go...it wasn't exactly the Caribbean...

    btw...Roger I love the English...so I'm not blinded, if you get the proof before me I will accept it fine...

    Apr 29th, 2018 - 11:47 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Roger Lorton

    DT - I use both primary and secondary resources, the latter being all I can obtain while out of the UK. When I am in England, I spend a lot of time at Kew and the British Library. My documentary sources are identified in the (extensive) footnotes in the timeline. Archive reference numbers are identified. I have a huge collection of photographed records. Slowly I am trying to place the most relevant up onto the website. The lists under each page grow longer. The newspaper page I link to above can also be found there.

    My secondary resources are listed here - https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/bibliography.pdf

    Voice - Byron had sailed before news of Bougainville's voyage came out, so no, the evidence suggests that the Admiralty did not know the French were there. Byron was only informed when he met the storeship at the Magellan Strait after he had left the islands. 'Settlers' is an interesting word. The French used it in much the same way we do now. We know from Kohen & Rodriguez that they considered the 1832 Argentine garrison also to be 'settlers'. When Spain took over at Port Louis they adopted a few of Bougainville's settlers although all had left within 3 years. Spain did not allow women in its garrisons, so they only had a military base.

    The question of 'Private Men' is intriguing. I shall see if I can find an expert to talk to from the Navy. Clayton's records contain a receipt for monies paid to 'Private Men' for work taking apart the shallop Penguin. It may be that these non-naval (?) people were either viewed as settlers or they have later been mistaken for them.

    Admiralty records are not easy. Listing can be under a Captain's name, or that of a vessel. Some records are grouped together to cover an event, letters can be found either under the sender or the receivers name. Or that of a Department. Trying to find the right words for the search engines is a pain.

    I'll keep working on it. I'd like to know the truth - despite Think's notions

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 12:01 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Mr. Voice...

    Thanks for the concise update about our friendly Engrish copper's “Timeline”...:

    ***“ I read Roger's Timeline and the embellishments...yes there have been more details added, there are still many links to the older versions floating about too...
    There is never anything new included that is contrary to his point of view though...”***

    Nothing new..., I see...

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 12:06 am - Link - Report abuse -4
  • Voice

    The truth is out there....;-)

    ADM/L/F59 Log of William Maltby, HM sloop Favourite 1770
    That reference was quoted in a book, but it is proving elusive, but there are two others that I quoted previously for the return voyage of the Favourite...
    The other Master of the ship that sank..I forget his name was court marshalled so his accounts are also available...

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 12:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Roger Lorton

    As usual Think, you see what you want to see, but yet again, I thank you for the opportunity to get in. Not enough space for an old windbag.

    Bougainville's expedition, with Acadian settlers, had also been commenced with great secrecy, and rather more effective secrecy than that achieved by Byron whose voyage was all over the foreign press. MacBride's voyage was also a secret but, I suspect, for a very different reason. The Navy was experimenting with plating ships' hulls with copper, and MacBrides two principle ships were coppered. How long that process takes isn't clear to me but I doubt that the word 'haste' can be associated with MacBride's voyage. These were military secrets so perhaps it is hardly surprising that little news of MacBrides' trip got out, even after his return.

    The other issue is that Bougainville was credited with 'discovering' a new Island. Described in one report as lying 80 miles from the coast of South America. By the time MacBride sailed, the Admiralty knew that the French were somewhere in the South Atlantic but there was no understanding of exactly where. MacBride only confirmed on his return in 1767 that the French were in the Falklands.

    One Island. Frezier's 1707 chart showed one island, and despite the sound, that appears to be the way the archipelago was viewed then. Pena y Pena in their new book also note that the Falklands were treated as one by the French and the English. They say the same for the Spanish but it was Spain that identified two main islands in their 1771 declaration.

    As I said, and DT noted, the picture is often confused. Not helped by us now failing to understand how little was known about the world 250 years ago.

    I better go read some more papers. TTFN

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 12:18 am - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Yaigulah3x

    England will return the Malvinas within 25 years.

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 03:43 am - Link - Report abuse -4
  • Roger Lorton

    Voice - we crossed.

    Sadly, not all references are published accurately. Jamie Trinidad's recent book contained an interesting reference and a National Archive reference number. Couldn't find it. Spoke to Jamie & he accepted that somewhere between the writing and the publication an error had occurred. It happens. Also, in some cases the references have changed. In other cases it looks as though they've been made up.

    There's no great problem with 1770. Prospect of war brings about a great deal of comment and the more papers there are, the more are likely to survive. I have quite a lot on the sinking of Swift at Puerto Deseado. Don't recall its commander being court martialed though.

    Have seen a little on the return of the Favourite but only about it encountering a Spanish frigate and considering attacking it.

    Came across a strange reference to the Spanish taking prisoner a “few” women and a “stout” marine in their attack on Egmont in 1770. Repeated in three journals giving the source as the “War Office” but it makes little sense.

    I'm over in July, albeit with the missus which will slow me down, but I'll find a chance to get to Kew I'm sure.

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 04:02 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • The Voice

    Nice civilized academic discussion…. ;-)

    Now the Falklands have the Yanqui spin doctor on board the C24 will get a right old ear bashing.

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 10:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. Lorton...

    Firstly...:
    ***“When Spain took over at Port Louis they adopted a few of Bougainville's settlers although all had left within 3 years.”***..., you write...
    Do you have any “real documentation” about the above...?
    I have an Acadian Malouiner aquaintance down here... (who has an humonguous hatred against them Engrish for what they did against his family in Canada)..., who surely would like to see it...

    Secondly...:
    You complain above about people in the XVIII century misspelling names and making your life as a Biased Amateur Engrish Historian difficult...
    Yet here you are..., misspelling yourself...
    Twice above you mention some ***“ Pena y Pena ”*** Argie lawyers that wrote a book...
    You must be referring to...:
    Peña, Manuel P.
    Malvnas Mito & Realidad
    ISBN...: ISBN: 978-9870289760

    There's only one “PEÑA”..., copper...
    And it is spelt with a Spanish “Ñ”..., copper...
    The only Spanish letter that differs fom the Engrish alphabet..., copper...
    Of course, we wouldn't expect an Engrish copper to care about such Dago things..., copper...
    But we certainly would expect even a Based Amateur Engrish Historian to try a bit harder..., copper...

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse -4
  • Roger Lorton

    Think - still raving I see. My keyboard can do many things, but it don't do N with a squiggle over the top. But you are correct in one regard, I don't usually care (enough) about such “dago things” (your words) to find a suitable character for these pages.

    “Falklands or Malvinas: Myths & Facts” (Kindle Edition) by Manuel Pedro Pena &‎ Juan Ángel Pena.

    The paperback edition only lists the one author - showing Juan as a 'Contributor'.

    So what was your point, old man?

    As for the 37 of Bougainville's Settlers that remained ......... it's all in the Timeline.

    https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/1748-to-1774.pdf

    Enjoy :-)

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • The Voice

    Having been to Lafayette LA many times and attended the Acadian Music Festival there many times I can assure the Twinkle Vegetable that there is no residual British hating amongst the populace whatsoever. So, your so called Acadian amigo is just like Twinkle… a SA squatting racist. To hold supposed grievances against the present British populace is just a form of brainless virtue signalling by uneducated racist fools.

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse +5
  • Think

    Mr. Lorton...

    ***“My keyboard can do many things, but it don't do N with a squiggle over the top.”***... you say...

    The “N with a squiggle over the top” is not a hardware question...., it is a software question...
    http://www.spanishdict.com/answers/282262/how-to-type-spanish-letters-and-accents-from-paralee

    Unless you still are using an Underwood typewriter...
    Then you just have to press the “squiggle” key before pressing the “N” key...

    I know that it is hard for a copper to Think in innovative ways...
    But just give it a try...
    it does not hurt...
    Honest Guv'...
    ;-)))

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 12:29 pm - Link - Report abuse -4
  • Roger Lorton

    The Voice - Acadians were not our greatest fans back then.

    I was a little flippant with the 3 years remark, there were some 'others' listed as at Port Louis in 1777, so a few may have survived longer. Hard to tell with any certainty.

    Of course, if Think had been a little less Think, I may have provided my sources. As he wasn't, I'll let him look them up.

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Think

    Well..., Rodge...

    You are quite “flippant” with a lot of things in your Timeline...
    Not strangely..., you always “flip” to the same side...

    Soooo.., your previous asseveration about all Acadians leaving them Islands within three years is as well documented as most of the rest of your Timeline...

    I told you many years ago..., laddie...
    You could have compiled a respectable and useful historical document...
    Instead you compiled an easily rebukable pile of biased Engrish Colonialist Justifications...

    Pity...

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse -6
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    He wouldn't want to make things too easy for the amateur historians of the future. :)

    But seriously, the BBC leaves the tildes off people's names too, and it's really annoying because it changes the pronunciation so much. I think there should be a convention that if you can't use the 'ñ' then you write 'ny' instead. 

    I wanted to find out if you practice what you preach, and turns out you do:

    “João Camponês assimilated...” you wrote to me over a year ago. Do you have a 'ã' key on your keyboard?

    PS. I wrote this on my phone because it fills them in for me. The method you linked to only works in Office, otherwise you have to memorise some numeric code which is a right pain.

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 01:03 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • The Voice

    Roger, I am well aware of Le Grand Dérangement. I have Acadian friends in LA and ME. Maurice in Maine is married to a lady of Hugenot heritage whose family fled Francophone persecution and via England landed up in the New World.
    People in SA like the Twinkle Vegetable and his so called Acadian amigo who bear racist grudges against the British or anyone else hundreds of years after long forgotten events should be locked up IMO. Whether in a jail or an asylum doesnt really matter. They are a stain on peace and fraternity.

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Think

    Boy...
    In the Lords year of 2018..., there ain't no more excuses for not using the right letters and symbols anymore...

    There are several easy ways in Windows...

    And..., in IOS or Android..., you just have to long press the corresponding letter and wuptiii..., a pop up menu with all the possible alternatives appears...

    No reason whatsoewer for the BBC to wish us all 400,000,000 Spanish speakers a...:
    ***“ Feliz Ano Nuevo”*** ...,this year...
    We are quite happy with the one we got at birth..., thanks...

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 01:35 pm - Link - Report abuse -7
  • DemonTree

    I know it's easy in Android, that's exactly how I wrote those letters on my phone. But it doesn't work on the keyboard, and if there's a way that isn't long and tiresome I'd really like to know it. Life's too short to be looking up alt-codes and pressing 5 different keys to type one character. In Duolingo they give you buttons to press on screen for all the accented characters and upside down question marks and stuff.

    Also, the BBC wouldn't be doing that. BBC Mundo has all the proper accents and stuff, it's just they have a style of leaving the accents off foreign names when writing in English.

    @TV
    You wanna lock them up for thought crime? Nice.

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Its not just thought crime is it? Continuous racist remarks from the Vegetable. Thats a crime that can get you locked up in the UK but not the US.

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Roger Lorton

    Think (sorry for the delay, but my wife insists on some attention occasionally) Can't help yourself, can you. You Think you're witty, but mostly you are just a sad case old man.

    My keyboard can give a ~ with a shift but shift + ~ + n = ~n so maybe I have the wrong keyboard. I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

    Problem for the Acadians is that those that stayed became 'others' to the Spanish. 37 remained behind in 1767. How long they stayed is not clear. The Spanish were a garrison, not a settlement. The Spanish relied on stores being sent out to them and didn't do much in the way of cultivation. Hardly an environment for Acadian farmers. Perhaps one day, someone will do some digging in the BA archives. In 1777 49 'others' were noted. Were they Acadians? Nobody knows for sure.

    However, if your friend wants to do some research I suggest:

    a) Dunmore J. - Storms and Dreams: Louis De Bougainville: Soldier, Explorer, Statesman 2005

    b) Scavennec G. - Racines & Rameaux Francais d’Acadaie: Recherche Genealogique et Histoire de l’Acadie 2005

    The latter was an on-line publication, I have no idea whether it is still available. Some of my information also came from a Canadian friend, who sadly died suddenly just when he was getting into some research of his own with regard to the Acadians. A loss.

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • DemonTree

    @TV
    I don't think it's a crime in the UK and I don't think it should be. These hate speech laws are dodgy as hell, they're a threat to free speech.

    @RL
    In Word, hold control and shift and press the key with the ~, then release them all and press 'n'. Gives me the 'ñ'. Not particularly straightforward, but easier than the alt-code method.

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • The Voice

    In Britain hate speech is a crime. You can get up to 7 years. The Think Vegetable constantly spews out anti British anti Falkland Islander lies and propaganda. If he is in Britain he is a criminal at risk of arrest and prosecution.

    As for the Acadians I assumed that the Twinkle Vegetable's amigo was smarting from the ejection of the original Acadians from Canada after some of them had been covertly working against the British settlers. Most went to Louisiana where they still have a very vibrant community.

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Roger Lorton

    DT - Thank you. I use OpenOffice but I'll give it a try.

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    How to insert symbols or special characters in OpenOffice...:
    https://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000886.htm
    Simples...

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Roger Lorton

    DT - didn't work.

    Think - thank you, but I did know about the 'Special Character' option in OpenOfficeWriter. Typing this, of course, I am not in OpenOffice and if it aint on the keyboard, then there is no option of a squiggly N. You'll have to live with it. I can ;-)

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    @TV
    I'm sure nothing Think has said is even close to being a crime, but I suppose you'd like to see him locked up anyway.

    @RL
    Doesn't look like it works in OpenOffice, unfortunately. And now I'm on my laptop at home I don't have a number pad so there is NO way to type that character. It really is annoying that there is no easy way like there is for the accent characters.

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Voice

    Can't they just select the “United States-International ” keyboard and then use the right Alt key plus the letter to get the Spanish accents...
    https://www.thoughtco.com/spanish-accents-and-punctuation-in-windows-3080315

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 10:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Not for me, the US keyboard screws up half the punctuation marks and doesn't have a £ key which I need vastly more often than a ñ. I think it's really pointless that there's a different UK and US keyboard layout, but there you go. I guess there isn't a similar thing for the UK keyboard?

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 10:58 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Voice

    Did you try it...? I thought the “United States-International” keyboard was different to the US standard keyboard...
    Or just switch to the Mac and use the Emoji & symbols option...

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 11:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    For your sporadic need of typing the letter “Ñ”... you Engrish should consider the use of the auld ..., proven & highly efficient “cut and paste” system..., common since the MS-DOS Word Perfect days...

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 11:30 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    Just tried it and it didn't change the punctuation keys but it didn't work either. Maybe it has to be on the US keyboard layout?

    Apr 30th, 2018 - 11:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Someone here used to refer to jibber jabber. Apart from imported foreign words there is no need for any accents in English. If I am wrong please give examples.

    I wonder how you write that Namibian language with the clicks?

    May 01st, 2018 - 08:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    ChrisR, what a charmer he was...

    All the examples would be borrowed foreign words, and they usually lose the accents after a while. As to whether we need accents, there's like 12 vowels in English - not even counting diphthongs - and only 5 letters to write them with, so accents would have come in handy.

    Dunno about the click languages, presumably they use letters for the different clicks or make up their own symbols?

    May 01st, 2018 - 08:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0

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