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Montevideo, September 23rd 2018 - 16:38 UTC

Brazil reacts strongly to EU ex-leaders asking for Lula to run for office

Thursday, May 17th 2018 - 08:53 UTC
Full article 36 comments

Brazil on Wednesday lashed out at a demand by former European leaders for disgraced ex-president Lula da Silva to be allowed to take part in elections this year. A group of former EU left leaning leaders, including French ex-president Francois Holland and Spanish former prime minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, called Lula's imprisonment for corruption “hurried” and said he should be “free to present himself before Brazilian voters.” Read full article

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  • :o))

    They'd obviously prefer a racketeer! It's a lot easier to do business with a corrupt and a known corrupt is even better than the unknown ones, who are queuing-up to steal!
    REF: notícias uol:
    “PF vê ”indícios muito claros“ de que dinheiro do narcotráfico foi para políticos corruptos”:
    https://noticias.uol.com.br/cotidiano/ultimas-noticias/2018/05/15/dinheiro-do-trafico-pode-ter-ido-parar-nas-maos-de-politicos-corruptos-diz-pf.htm

    May 17th, 2018 - 11:42 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Jack Bauer

    “Brazil on Wednesday lashed out at a demand by former European leaders for disgraced ex-president Lula da Silva to be allowed to take part in elections this year.I'm sure these idiots would love it if Brazil ”

    “...a demand by former European leaders...”....quite a bit of cheek really - they should mind their own business - not to mention their feigned indignance which translates into their willingness to overlook his crimes. Either they are as crooked as Lula, or are peeved at the idea that the radical left is being whipped in Brazil.

    May 17th, 2018 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    “Brazil on Wednesday lashed out at a demand by former European leaders...” Oh dear what's going to happen when the UNHRC upholds Lula's complaint. They can withdraw from their UN Human Rights treaty, close the drawbridge, tell they rest of the world they don't understand who's really running the show.

    May 17th, 2018 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Jack Bauer

    @Terry the LIAR Hill
    Still feeling sore for Lula ? tough shit. Pay him a visit to show your solidarity, numb nuts.
    Today, in keeping with his bs (for his 'red' followers), he announced he would not accept a pardon....well, well, well, and whoever offered him one ?

    May 17th, 2018 - 10:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “Still feeling sore for Lula...” Not at all as I'm not as limited as you. His is just one of many, many cases I have been involved in since 1995 of wrongful convictions in many places. There will be many more yet.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” - Edmund Burke

    May 17th, 2018 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    @TH
    That's interesting. What other suspected wrongful convictions have you been following, and what have you done for them other than post on the Internet?

    May 18th, 2018 - 11:41 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Terence Hill

    DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
    “Ignoring the essay I linked to - written by a history professor” That is so sanitised and general, with nothing germane to Brazil. I have much more material available that specifically shows what they did, than this piece of window dressing.
    “What other suspected wrongful convictions have you been following”
    Louise Woodward case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Woodward_case
    Sent money, petitioned all the US and state politicians. The jury conviction was so perverse, that while the judge couldn't overturn their verdict he released her for time served.

    May 18th, 2018 - 12:06 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    Exactly as I expected; you ignore and dismiss any evidence that didn't agree with you. You're one of the most biased people I've ever met and you can't even see it.

    I remember the Woodward case, it was all over the news. Were there any others?

    May 18th, 2018 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    Don't know why Terry the Brainless Liar even bothers to post any of his crap....does he really think that anyone, except perhaps “Brasileiro”, takes him seriously ? he is one BIIIIG bore, from beginning to end.
    Just fyi, Jose Dirceu, another of Lula's henchmen (mensalão, Petrolão) was convicted yesterday, to 30 years in jail (corruption, money laundering etc)...asa his appeals are rejected he'll go to jail.

    May 18th, 2018 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
    “You ignore and dismiss any evidence that didn't agree with you” Well the judge thought it was a miscarriage of justice, and his ruling was upheld on appeal. But, don't let the fact that you know sweet Fanny Adam about the issue prevent you from opining.

    May 18th, 2018 - 03:38 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    Some people are willing to take him seriously as long as he is telling them what they want to hear (chiefly about the Falklands). Much like how Terry himself will swallow any evidence he agrees with, instead of demanding proof and dragging out his tiresome quotes.

    @TLiarH
    The first bit of my comment was a response to the first bit of yours, ie “That is so sanitised and general...”, not the Woodward case.

    What others have you taken an interest in?

    May 18th, 2018 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Terence Hill

    DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
    “Were there any others?” There's three hundred plus convictions that were overturned on DNA evidence from Barry Scheck's 'Innocence Project' https://www.innocenceproject.org/Barry_Scheck that I follow, not that you have the slightest interest.

    May 18th, 2018 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    Your link didn't work, but I've heard of the project. It's really shocking how flimsy some of the original cases were, and how many people who plead guilty were later exonerated by DNA evidence. America is WAY too reliant on plea bargains to get convictions.

    May 18th, 2018 - 08:52 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Terence Hill

    DemonTree
    “What others have you taken an interest in?”
    Donald Marshall, Jr, Martensville satanic sex scandal, David Milgaard, Guy Paul Morin, Steven Truscott,
    “Your link didn't work” Here's an update https://www.innocenceproject.org/about/

    May 18th, 2018 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    How did this, ie., the perfect European idiots - like Francoise Hollande and a few other morons (who did no good for their own countries), demanding that the Brazilian judiciary allow Lula to run for president - become about DNA ???
    Or is Terry the Liar - who always goes off at a tangent when he sees he's lost the argument (99% of the time) - now resorting to attempt to draw an analogy between DNA evidence in murder cases and the Lavajato evidence that condemned his hero ? how thoughtful of him, but DNA does not apply in corruption.....but metaphorically speaking, I suppose Lula's rotten DNA 'is' all over Petrobras.

    May 19th, 2018 - 08:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “Resorting to attempt to draw an analogy between DNA evidence in murder cases and the Lavajato evidence. ... But DNA does not apply in corruption” But evidence does, and I certainly have more experience in reading and understanding evidence. More than that, I'm not a 'one trick pony', like yourself who is restricted to seeing only a political agenda, within the even narrower confines of Brazil. As this certainly isn't my first rodeo, while it certainly is yours, cowboy.

    May 19th, 2018 - 11:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    I thought it would be more interesting than seeing Terry repeat the same thing 20 times.

    Are you angry with them for interfering in Brazil's business? I'm sure Maduro would also like European leaders to stop telling him what to do. Even if you're right about him, Lula's conviction is just far too convenient not to raise suspicion.

    @TH
    I had never heard of any of those cases. Not surprising as they are all Canadian and many quite old. It's really disturbing just how many of those convicted are later shown to be innocent, and also how many of them spent more needless years in jail because it was so hard to get their cases reviewed.

    Reading the stories gives the impression the police were determined to convict someone - anyone - and once they had settled on a suspect were very unwilling to consider other possibilities.

    May 20th, 2018 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DemonTree
    “America is WAY too reliant on plea bargains” The flaw is even if your innocent, if you lose your going to get a long sentence. The US has the highest percentile of incarcerations in the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate
    “The police were determined to convict someone ...” I agree it's called tunnel vision, when poor investigators are guided by 'their gut feeling' There in lies the pithy saying “The constable has blundered”.

    May 20th, 2018 - 10:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • :o))

    At least ONE thing NOBODY can deny [even if it's just for a short time AND for the namesake only!]:
    https://i1.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/ze-Dirceu-e-Lula-presos.jpg?resize=580%2C414&ssl=1

    May 20th, 2018 - 11:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    The LIAR really thinks he's the bee's knees, doesn't he ? he is the self-proclaimed expert on legal matters, anywhere in the world.
    He proudly claims “this is not my first rodeo”...LOL...as what, the clown ??

    No, not angry ....just think it's a bit like the pot calling the kettle black...they did lousy jobs in their own countries and then think they can give advice to others...Maduro is definitely an exception.

    You might think Lula's conviction is “convenient” to the point of raising suspicion.....am not going to tell you what to believe, but AFAIC, the convenient part is just a by-product of a sound conviction ; to believe otherwise is to give more credit to Lula than to the Federal Police, all the federal prosecutors, all the judges (nine) in 3 different courts (Moro, TRF-4, STJ), and the majority of judges in the STF...Don't know why people insist on his popularity as a reason to ignore his crimes....or do they perhaps think he is innocent because he says he is (despite the proof) and that he must be a saint ?
    I realize that people in the UK have never experienced such huge corruption in government, and therefore, perhaps find the accusations hard to believe.
    Just fyi, will travelling day after tomorrow, for about 2 weeks.

    May 20th, 2018 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “He is the self-proclaimed expert on legal matters”
    The only claim I make is to far greater expertise than you in such matters. As I have studied them for many years without any political agenda
    “The convenient part is just a by-product of a sound conviction”
    Which is widely condemned as numerous legal writers have already stated. It would be extremely surprising if the UNHRC does not also concur.

    May 20th, 2018 - 11:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • :o))

    The ONLY thing that REALLY matters is the return of the illicitly gained wealth. As long as THAT isn't made obligatory; it's an additional waste of the public funds to keep the racketeers behind bars - and in spite of being condemned; letting them continue to enjoy their privileges + benefits; is a Legal Acceptance of corruption!

    May 21st, 2018 - 10:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @Terry the Brainless Liar Hill
    You are very vain, numb nuts....but don't break your elbow trying to pat yourself on the back...

    May 21st, 2018 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @TH
    “The flaw is even if your innocent, if you lose your going to get a long sentence.”

    Yes, they are asking you to take a huge risk in order to prove your innocence. In cases of murder a defendant may have to risk their life to get justice, whereas if they plead guilty they'll be guarenteed not to get the death sentence. And for minor crimes, you could be stuck in jail for months waiting for your trial if you can't afford bail, whereas taking the deal could get you out quicker. It's a huge incentive for anyone to plead guilty, whether they are or not.

    “The police were determined to convict someone ...”

    I think it's probably some kind of congnitive bias; once you are considering a theory, you start looking for evidence to fit it instead of keeping an open mind and looking at the big picture.

    @JB
    AFAIK they didn't do any worse than other governments in those countries. And the convenience isn't to do with the evidence really, it's the timing that gets him out of the way before the election, when others accused earlier are still awaiting their trials (even in the lower courts). Probably they either think he's innocent, or no worse than the other candidates who are being allowed to stand. One triplex flat is pretty cheap for someone who was supposedly head of a giant corruption empire.

    Are you going somewhere nice?

    May 21st, 2018 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “You are very vain” Looking at the source of that personal attack, from one with the well deserved sobriquet. So your unable to refute that what I claim is at least factually correct, whereas your title says all that is needed.
    DT
    Exactly

    May 21st, 2018 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    There was no 'timing', his conviction has nothing to do with the election; dates of events prove that, as I've already pointed out in previous exchanges w/ EM....but to refresh your memory, soon after Dilma was elected Oct 2014, Lula declared he would never again be a candidate.

    And :
    1) even well before that, the Lavajato investigation - which was only “officially” announced 03/2014 - alrdy had Lula under suspicion of involvement in the Odebrecht/OAS/PB corruption; but back then, he was still confident nothing would happen.
    2) Oct 2014, (a) Lula had just got Dilma re-elected (b) this boosted his confidence that the Law couldn't touch him, (c) so he announced his intention to retire for good.
    3) Immy after, the Lavajato announced their suspicions rgdng the “triplex”, obliging him to go public, Nov 2014, and say he “would no longer keep it”.
    4) Dilma's imminent impeachment - which occurred end 08/ 2016 - started shattering his plans to elect another PT president after Dilma's term would end, 12/2018 ;
    5) his worst fears came true when Dilma “was” eventually impeached, end 08/2016;
    6) only then did Lula realize that in order to protect himself, he would have to run for president again.

    Therefore, in 2014 while the Lavajato investigation was already under way (with evidence against Lula), he had no intention whatsoever of being a candidate ; only after Dilma's impeachment (more than 2 years later) did he go back on his word.
    He was being investigated long before he decided to run, and only after it dawned on him that he might be jailed after Dilma was kicked out, so the PT came up with the theory that they “wanted him out way”.

    Most of the others accused earlier - abt 140 - have been condemned in the 1st lower court, and some, having been condemned also in the 2nd, are alrdy in jail. Lula is not a target, or a victim. He's one of many crooks. The “triplex” is just the top of the iceberg.

    Going to Miami to attend a wedding, then off to NYC.

    May 21st, 2018 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    ”Nov 2014, and say he “would no longer keep it”.
    You must indeed enjoy priviliged sources to receive such information, but unless you can provide a citation then its just another one of your porkies. Just like everything else that is unsupported.

    May 21st, 2018 - 11:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    The timing is no coincidence. Even if you don't believe anyone concerned had any dubious motives, there's still a reason for them to hurry, because if he became president again the cases would be sent to the higher court and go nowhere - just like Temer's are doing now. If they believe him guilty, and they've been working hard to gather evidence, they won't want to see that.

    I know the investigation began well before Lula said he intended to run, but consider he was charged with 5 or 6 different crimes, and still is as far as I know. Why has only one progressed and come to trial, and not only that but gone through all the appeals in time to bar him from running? Because the people concerned wanted to stop him standing, so the investigators pushed to get together enough evidence (still not enough in the NYT and others' opinion) for one case, and the judge scheduled the trial as early as possible. If they'd taken as long over the triplex case as the other 5 he'd be out campaigning right now.

    But there's no hurry to prosecute those other cases, because one is enough to stop him running. It's quite easy for judges to speed up or delay a case, no? All the papers said Lula's appeal was heard in record time, and compare the time it took the STF to rule on his habeus corpus with basically anything else they have to deal with. Didn't you tell me it took years for cases to be heard in the STF, so that crimes often prescribe?

    I hope you have fun in America. I've got a wedding to go to later this year, but nowhere nearly so exciting as Miami.

    May 22nd, 2018 - 12:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    For a moment, I was worried.

    Former European leaders are publicly requesting that Lula da Silva be allowed to run in the election later this year?

    Yes they were. As reported by Telesur, “former Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero and former French Prime Minister Francois Hollande, have released a manifesto…in support of former Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva.”

    The “Call of European Leaders in Support of Lula,” also signed by former Italian Prime Ministers Massimo D'Alema, Romano Prodi, Enrico Letta and former Belgian Prime Minister Elio di Rupo, criticized Lula’s imprisonment and requested that he be allowed to “freely run” for president in the October election.

    “The precipitated imprisonment of President Lula, a tireless journeyman in the reduction of inequalities in Brazil and a defender of the poor, can only incite our commotion,” the statement noted. “The legitimate and necessary struggle against corruption cannot justify an operation (in reference to the Car Wash investigation) that questions the principles of democracy and the right of people to choose their governments.”

    But further reading reassured me.

    As dear MP informs us, the signatories are “a group of former EU left leaning leaders” who are advocating for “disgraced ex-president Lula da Silva.”

    Isn’t reassuring to get the right, unbiased information allowing us to make informed decisions?

    https://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Ex-European-Leaders-Rally-Behind-Lula-Defender-of-the-Poor-20180516-0022.html

    May 22nd, 2018 - 01:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    “It's a huge incentive for anyone to plead guilty, whether they are or not.”
    I'm watching a series on Netflix called 'I am Innocent' produced in New Zealand. One of episodes involves a so called 'recovered memory of childhood sexual abuse' which like the N. American experience. Was shown the manipulation of disturbed persons by unqualified pseudo therapists and the laying of bogus criminal charges. It took awhile, but these charlatans and their junk science was eventually legally discredited. As in 'The McMartin and Wee Care Nursery cases' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4409058/

    May 24th, 2018 - 12:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    I remember reading about those cases when I was in school, and the experiments that demonstrated how unreliable memory could be. Shows how important science is to evidence in courts, and how important it is that ordinary people understand it so that trials can be fair.

    May 25th, 2018 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    “How important science is to evidence in courts”
    I agree

    May 25th, 2018 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • :o))

    Doomsday is just around the corner - agree or not - the return of hyperinflation is about to show its ominous signs.

    May 26th, 2018 - 01:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    “The Lava Jato investigation has come under sharp criticism for its apparent refusal to prosecute any politician from the conservative PSDB party, despite mountains of material evidence showing tens of millions of dollars in bribes, while ex-President Lula languishes in solitary confinement for the crime of “undetermined acts” with no evidence beyond a single plea bargain testimony. The fact that lead Lava Jato prosecutor and judge Sergio Moro’s wife used to work as a legal adviser for the Paraná Governor’s Office during a PSDB administration has added to the suspicion that there is conflict of interest.”
    http://www.brasilwire.com/conflict-of-interest-motion-filed-against-sergio-moro/

    May 26th, 2018 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • :o))

    REF: “Dilma Rousseff Leads Polls”:
    https://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Brazil-Dilma-Rousseff-Leads-Polls-Ahead-of-Senatorial-Race--20180526-0006.html?utm_source=planisys&utm_medium=NewsletterIngles&utm_campaign=NewsletterIngles&utm_content=9

    There is only ONE reason why the politicians want to grab seats, so desperately and at ALL costs:
    - To Steal The Taxpayers' Money - LEGALLY!

    May 26th, 2018 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Bonehead, you couldn't have picked a worse example to try and make your point.
    “Dilma Rousseff Leads Polls: reason why the politicians want to grab seats, To Steal The Taxpayers' Money -“
    ”Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff, who was impeached last August in what many described as a legislative coup. Her impeachment came as Brazil was engulfed in a major corruption scandal, but Rousseff herself was never accused of any financial impropriety“
    h ttps://www.democracynow.org/2017/5/26/glenn_greenwald_ousting_brazilian_president_dilma
    ”Ms. Rousseff, as it happens, is one of the few ranking political leaders who is not accused of graft. ...For Brazil’s army of dirty politicians, impeaching a weak and unpopular president offers a fortuitous distraction from their own crimes. It provides a scapegoat to quench the public’s thirst for justice, for a big name to take the fall for the country’s woes and shift the focus away from corrupt lawmakers.
    Ms. Rousseff may be guilty of mismanaging the economy, but her hands are clean in the graft and corruption scandal.”
    http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/editorials/article73445397.html

    May 26th, 2018 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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