Argentine football season named ‘Crucero Belgrano’ to honour major loss in Falklands’ conflict
As tension rises over the 30th anniversary of the deadly conflict between Britain and Argentina over the Falkland Islands, the Argentine government has named the upcoming football season in honour of a naval ship sunk by British torpedoes in the conflict.
The season, which begins Friday, will be the known as the first division ”Crucero General Belgrano,'' or Cruiser General Belgrano, which was torpedoed 2 May 1982 by the Royal Navy submersible ‘Conqueror’.
Argentina lost 649 servicemen in the war, 323 of whom were crew members on the Belgrano, which was the former USS Phoenix. A controversy has surrounded the naval incident: whether the Belgrano was ousting the exclusion zone imposed by the British or actually regrouping to attack the Falklands when she was sunk.
In spite of the Argentine governments’ official version, Argentine naval officers have confirmed the regrouping plans and recently released UK documents confirm the version based on intercepted Argentine communications at the time.
The Argentine government owns the rights to Argentine first-division matches and shows all the games on free-to-air television.
Advertising time during the matches is often used to promote the accomplishments of the Argentine government, which is strongly campaigning in favour of sovereignty over the Falklands/Malvinas and other South Atlantic Islands.
The 30th anniversary of the start of the 10-week conflict is April 2 when Argentine marines first invaded the Islands. On 14 June, 74 days later the Argentine troops surrendered unconditionally to a British Task Force sent to recover the Falklands.
A year later Argentina was rapidly on its way to free elections and the recovery of the rule of the law, following the collapse of the military Junta involved in the desperate ‘adventure’ of the invasion to try and save a crumbling authoritarian regime.
The British then set up a tri-service military garrison, RAF Mount Pleasant Airport which has since been tasked with the job of defending the Falklands and preventing any repeat of the 1982 conflict.
The Argentine government was angered by the arrival in the Falklands last week of Prince William, second in line to the British throne. The prince, known in the British defence forces as Flight Lt. Wales, has been deployed to the Islands for six weeks as a search and rescue pilot.
The British government says it's a routine deployment. Argentina has called it provocative.
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Let us hope no future wars happen.
I support Argentina's right to protest even if I don't agree with it, what I will not support is Argentina's economic sanctions against the peaceful people of the Falklands Islands and it is in my view the wrong approach to trying to resolve the situation.
All Argentina does is sour its own position by seeking to economically punish the islanders.
Could you please elaborate as to which measures Argentina has adopted that you understand are economic sanctions?
You want to start a shooting war, then you have to accept the consequences.
Placing restrictions on vessels connected with the oil exploration industry is a form of 'economic sanction'.
Which restrictions has Argentina placed on vessels connected with the exploration of oil?
In terms of economic situation, I'm talking about the blocking of Falkland flagged vessels even if the blockage is easily circumvented among other things.
1) if it is easily cirumvented then it is not effective. If it is not effective then there is no economic blockade.
2) Argentina has a claim to the islands. You might disagree but it has a claim and an overwhelming majority of 40 million (the exact number is irrelevant because it is a majority) believe in that claim. Moreover, other Latin American countries also believe in that claim and support Argentina as has become evident over the last 12 months. Now, given that claim and the fact that the Gov't has made it clear it WILL NOT use overt violence in reclaiming the islands, what do you suggest Argentina do then?
It's a bit like the old argument that human rights radicals make in defence of burglars who break into the homes of people while they are sleeping. Every now and then the owner of the house wakes up and shoots the burglar in the arse as he is scurrying out the kitchen window. The radicals scream murder but the courts are increasingly seeing it differently.
If you go to a party with a gun you can't expect to make it home alive. Even if you are a peaceful nation like Argentina.
Argentina has NO claim. If she did, she could have taken it to the the ICJ or PCA decades ago!
What Latin America believes is irrelevant.
What Argentina should do, is drop its spurious and unwinable claim, and get on with dealing with its own problems !!
So, if it were up to you Argentina should use overt violence (i agree with this), no diplomacy, and just drop it's claim.
Thank you for your kind words but why don't you go and get F@#ked?
1994 – Argentina's Defence Ministry drop their claim that the sinking of the ARA Belgrano was a 'war crime', and accept that it was a 'legal act of war'.
2000 – March 14th, in a case seeking to indict Margaret Thatcher for war crimes relating to the sinking of the ARA Belgrano, the Supreme Court in Buenos Aires rules that the acts, if illegal, cannot be prosecuted before an Argentine court.
2007 - May 2nd, in an interview with the Clarin newspaper, Hector Bonzo, Captain of the Belgrano in 1982, denies that the sinking of his vessel was a war crime; “
It was an act of war. The acts of those who are at war, like the submarine's attack, are not a crime ... The crime is the war. We were on the front line and suffered the consequences. On April 30, we were authorised to open fire, and if the submarine had surfaced in front of me I would have opened fire with all our 15 guns until it sank.”
The Belgrano was a legitimate target. It was a vessel of war. The Exclusion zone was stipulated for the protection of civil and neutral vessals only. A vessel of war no matter it's position or heading is a legitmate target when a state of war exists between two parties.
The Captain of the Belgrano has himself said his ship was a legitimate target.
The Belgrano was steaming in a holding pattern awaiting orders to sail on the Royal Navy Task force in conjuntion with another Argentine task force South of the Islands, and with the Argentine Air Force from the Argentine mainland.
And Helter - why should I 'get' when I can give to you :-)
If Argentina had won the war they would have been heroic men who sacrificed themselves for the glory of the Malvinas.
Of course since you lost the war in a humiliating fashion and have never quite grown a pair over this fact, it is of course a “war crime”.
This renaming of a football league of all things is just another in a long line of hysterical victimhood hand wringing enacted by the Argentine govt to distract attention from the fact the country is drowning in inflation and the massive surplus was decimated to allow Empress Kirchners coronation, happy times :)
There was no ”war zone“ Helber. Any Argentine warship was fair game anywhere in the world steaming in any direction.
The ”exclusion zone” was for the benefit of neutral shipping and nothing else.
The argies are such hypocrite's
Operation Algeciras was an ill-fated Argentine plan to sabotage a Royal Navy warship in Gibraltar during the Falklands War. The Argentine assumption was that if the British military felt vulnerable in Europe, they would decide to keep some vessels in European waters rather than send them to the Falklands.
A commando team observed British naval traffic in the area from Spain during 1982, waiting to attack a target of opportunity when ordered, using frogmen and Italian limpet mines.
The plan was to launch divers from Algeciras, have them swim across the bay, to Gibraltar, under cover of darkness, attach the mines to a British naval ship and swim back to Algeciras. The timed detonators would cause the mines to explode after the divers had time to safely swim back across the bay. The plan was foiled when the Spanish police became suspicious of their behavior and arrested them before any attack could be mounted.
Helber is proved wrong, tries to gloss over the facts on and when taken to task gets abusive.
Now isn't that just typical Argentine behaviour?
No wonder the hard working and peaceful Islanders want nothing to do with him or his impertinent Country.
I guarantee that more than 40 million people believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. I never supposed that made it true.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9064697/Britain-had-to-plead-with-US-to-take-part-in-Iran-flotilla.html
This has nothing to do with military capability and all to do with the hugely amusing game that is politics.
Helber, no matter where the Belgrano was.
lt was an armed enemy ship proceding to give battle & thus was fair game.
Of course it was torpedoed.
What did you expect us to do?
Surface & invite the crew to play tennis, perhaps?
And as stick up your junta has pointed out, what about the Argentine attempt to destroy our ships in Gibraltar?
Now that is a long, long way from the exclusion zone, no?
What Lord Ton said @ post # 9 is perfectly sensible & that is what Argentina should do.
l know its hard(especially for a man!)to admit you are wrong, but the truth is, you ARE wrong.
Argentina has NEVER owned the Falklands despite all you were taught at school.
Don't get snarky, mate. Just move on. Drop your ridiculous claims & we can all be friends again.
You want to be peaceful, don't you Helber?♥
It was france and other EU countires that begged to have their navy ships involved after the USA originally planned to go it alone, it was as a result of the french and other EU nations being allowed to have their ships take part that britian also decided to sent a ship, after originally accepted the USA original plan to go it alone, so really it was Sarkorsy (or however to spell the frogs name) that begged to be allowed to have a ship take part, not the UK, and the USA had originally planned to do it alone. Which means they did not tell “UK that they can not contribute to the dispute with iran as it has not military capability” at all. Only that there was no need as they purely plan to go it alone. It was only when the french begged to be allowed to have a ship join that the USA relented and agreed to other nations ships to take part in what they had planned to be a USA only excercise, which by the way was rountine deployment maneuvers by the USA anyway.
As for using sport to promote a political agenda, well all i can say is its clear it is the argentine government that are the ones trying to deflect attention of their population from the real national issues and economic problems argentina is facing not the UK, to say the UK is doing so is laughable to say the least lol.
Here is a quote:
”Though the ship was outside the 200-mile (370 km) exclusion zone, both sides understood that this was no longer the limit of British action—on 23 April a message was passed via the Swiss Embassy in Buenos Aires to the Argentine government, it read:
In announcing the establishment of a Maritime Exclusion Zone around the Falkland Islands, Her Majesty's Government made it clear that this measure was without prejudice to the right of the United Kingdom to take whatever additional measures may be needed in the exercise of its right of self-defence under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. In this connection Her Majesty's Government now wishes to make clear that any approach on the part of Argentine warships, including submarines, naval auxiliaries or military aircraft, which could amount to a threat to interfere with the mission of British Forces in the South Atlantic will encounter the appropriate response. All Argentine aircraft, including civil aircraft engaged in surveillance of these British forces, will be regarded as hostile and are liable to be dealt with accordingly.
Interviews conducted by Martin Middlebrook for his book, The Fight For The Malvinas, indicated that Argentine Naval officers understood the intent of the message was to indicate that any ships operating near the exclusion zone could be attacked. Argentine Rear Admiral Allara, who was in charge of the task force that the Belgrano was part of, said “After that message of 23 April, the entire South Atlantic was an operational theatre for both sides. We, as professionals, said it was just too bad that we lost the Belgrano”
That's the way it was and is. You can't change it.
It is however totally distasteful to the memory of the dead to name a football season after the sunken ship. Argentina has recently professed that the war was started by a dictatorship and not Argentina yet now glorifies a cruiser of that dictatorship. Another example of why the word of an Argentine government, dictatorship or otherwise cannot be trusted.
This thought entered my mind. Why do Argentines verbally distance themselves from the Falklands War but their actions only glorify and play up the event....once again Argentine hypocrisy is on show.
The Argentines are not a real nation, their country has only existed for about 175 years. Most Argentines trace their family history to Italy, Spain, Germany and the British Isles. The only real Argentines are the Amerindians and their nation is the entire continent of America.
The Argentines I know have Italian mothers, English father, Spanish grandfathers, German grandmothers, Welsh great great uncles. It's technically impossible to claim Argentines are a nation.
They also have the most comically fascist like government on the entire continent. Their entire policy agenda revolves around a group of islands they work 24/7 to alienate the population of. While spreading lies and peddling rants about “the British” that make Mugabe look normal by comparison.
Latin Americans find Argentina an alien culture, its a colonial relic, a piece of Europe transplanted onto a continent thousands of miles away. The culture is Latin European, with a touch of English and Welsh. It certainly bears no resemblance to its neighbors in Paraguay, Bolivia, Venezuela, or Peru.
Even the Argentine honour guards wear colonial uniforms copied from the British and Spanish Imperial era.
They are a throwback to another age. An age of fascism.
I have been in Sea Cadets and Marine Detachment since I was 8. I plan to join the Defence Force as soon as I finish 6th form. Maybe to you I'm just a girl but I tell you now, come and see how straight I shoot. Come and find out!
There are hundreds more just like me, waiting. We've heard all the talk now come on! Lets see how far you get!
Thank you xbarilox :)
It was outside the 200 ml Total Exclusion Zone for all foreign forces, well inside the war zone for all Argentinian forces.
The rules of war only require it to be a beligerant warship and it can be attacked, tied up in port if nessecary.
@33 suzy
Keep your powder dry against the day you may need it, train hard and if that day comes and you will know what to do.
Meanwhile do not let anything get to you, learn to win the waiting game. It may not happen.
35 xbarilox
Ola Compadre, how was your vacation?
Glad you enjoyed yourself, English holidays usually involve alchol large.
Don't quite understand Susana & bowling alleys, but Hey if it floats your boat!
53 xbarilox (#)Nov 14th, 2010 As Marcos Alejandro has stated before, Britain must go, and in the end it will have to go; the issue is one of how and when.
Malvinas Argentinas.
77 xbarilox Brits are so used to steal things from people, that believe they have some kind of authority to tell people what to do, what to think, what to say, what to believe lol
102 xbarilox
Don't get scared people, get the facts, the islandars can't decide anything,
en.mercopress.com/2010/11/12/second-oil-rig-to-join-falklands-oil-exploration-round-next-year
Go, girl go.!
Loooove your attitude.
We can't fail.
Hey, Think, look how the policies of your malvinista president have bourne fruit
The Troll from the other side of the Andes
Argentina must go, and in the end it will have to go; the issue is one of how and when/. Long live the Falklands ..
[the argentines are so used to steal things from people, that believe they have some kind of authority to tell people what to do, what to think, what to say, what to believe and they do not .
Don't get scared people, get the facts, the islander’s can decide anything they want,
[we thank you Marcos] a true Argentina patriot with a British rule of ethics .]lol
.
77 xbarilox Brits are so used to steal things from people
You are confused Marcos, that would be the Argentines. The Argentines invaded our islands in 1982, no one invited you in. You came in all guns blazing. I'd call that stealing.
I suggest you visit us. I'll even invite you over for tea in my house, in the spirit of friendship. You can learn that we really don't want to be Argentine and we really don't appreciate all the lies, insults, racial slurs and the aggressive threats that your government encourages in you.
Sorry but that is not true, you must be talking about your friends at Victory bar...Please see mug, picture#2
www.clarin.com/politica/fotos_5_641985796.html
You tell 'em.......
I really hope your marksmanship skills never have to be used in anger. My thoughts are with you and all the other Falklanders. It must be very frustrating seeing the Argentinians threatening your family and home the way they they do.
You're a very brave young lady.
@Andy mac
I think you're very generous to your foes.
@helber and the other malvinistas: if you had wanted the crew of the Belgrano to survive, you should never have invaded the Flaklands. Your warship was a legitimate target, if we had let her go she would have been in position to attack any shipping we had in the area. You would have done exactly the same.
@xbarilox 21! I wish I was still that young! Seriously, all the best to you if you are in studies or looking for/in a job. These times are'nt easy for anyone and I hope that you do well for yourself.
Are we intimidating you Marcos? Do I feel you quaking in your boots at the thought of being invaded by the Falklands?
Stop spreading the lies and stop spreading the hate.
If you are really that worked up about us why not come over here and I fight you man to man :) we'll have it go live on webcam and everyone in Argentina can watch.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_akFekhmm1E
The Guerra Sucia First Division, say.
What a great idea,
Simple , easy , peaceful , and democratic,
But sadly the others will feel left out, and think that you are being favourer full to the brits ,
And thus Argentina would have to remove all European born/decent from those South American shores, the only ones left would be the Amerindians,
Good idea through .
Filippo
Great film
[they call him flipper,, flipper , a fish at the filippo,]
Yep great film .
You say about (33) suzy :
”Go, girl go! Looove your attitude. We can't fail.
Hey, Think, look how the policies of your malvinista president have bourne fruit”
I say:
Hmmmmmm…….
It seems that, suddenly, we have got a veritable “surge” of enthusiastic Kelper posters…..
Let´s look first at Mr. AndyMac´s invitation to tea, at post (45), when visiting “His” Islands…..:
“45 AndyMac Feb 07th, 2012
The Argentines invaded our islands in 1982, no one invited you in. You came in all guns blazing. I'd call that stealing.
I suggest you visit us. I'll even invite you over for tea in my house, in the spirit of friendship. You can learn that we really don't want to be Argentine and we really don't appreciate all the lies, insults, racial slurs and the aggressive threats that your government encourages in you.”
Strange…………….As you can see below, short four months ago he was inviting others to visit “His” Scotland…
”15 AndyMac Sep 26th, 2011
14 Kiwisarg …You need to get out more, come to Scotland we have some nice women here.”
en.mercopress.com/2011/09/22/cfk-agrees-to-visit-chile-after-october-23-presidential-election
What a Turnip……….....................
Now……. Back to young Squatterette “Ms. Suzy” who seems to have a dangerously high degree of testosterone on her adolescent body…… and, as you can read on her comment below, a disturbing interest in “Fisting” ….
Hope this alarming interest doesn’t originates from family inner-circle experiences……..
“14 suzy Feb 07th, 2012
How is the Argentine Secret Police, are they treating you well with that hand stuck upside your backside? It must hurt but you seem happy.”
en.mercopress.com/2012/02/07/there-is-a-point-where-islanders-will-say-to-the-argentines-to-hell-with-you.
(52) Tobias
You say:
”The best solution would be kick out all Argies from the UK, kick out all Britt’s from ARG.”
I say:
Bad idea……
Who am I supposed to play Bridge then? Or my ocassional game of Crocket?
Bad; baaaad idea!
Have some decorum when addressing a woman. You don't need to use sexual language to show you don't agree. You're English is perfectly good enough for you to understand what I mean.
Silly me.................
It´s Croquet, not Crocket.....
I propose an economic and shipping blockade by Latin America, Royal Navy harassment of Argentine shipping, the suspension of air links and constant ratcheting up of the rhetoric and tension, followed by a claim that Argentina is militarising itself in defence. And a call on the UN Security Council to take action against them.
There we go. I am sure you can see our claim is as relevant as theirs
today died Spinetta, a great artist. one of our really great artists. all my condolations.
That's the best idea that l have heard for a long, long time.
There will of course be a lot of disappointed people on both sides (& l wouldn't be able to stir Think up, either! pity)
Excellent idea.
We will all have a glitches adjusting to it, but l'd be interested to know how Argentina is going to “de-malvinst” its schoolchildren & everyone else that has been “malvisterised” since the 1930's.
Only interested, as its your problem.
Great idea, hey Think? You won't be branded a squatter anymore(even though you are one!). ♥♥♥♥
The Falklands were also a place outside a war zone, before Argentina made one of it!
The logic some Argentines apply here is really bizarre, as it reflects a big aspect of their idionsicracy. They are really convinced, that they impose the rules and are the upholders of moral standards... tsssss
The party who starts a war, always have to have in mind the risk, that the war might expand to it's own zone of comfort. That's the GOOD thing about it, that keeps most agressive nations back from starting one.
Showing definate Nonce tendencies now.
lf you were an Argentine submarine commander & you had a British warship in your sights, what would you have done?
Let it pass?
Yeah, right.
C'est la guerre.
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