“Self determination, only way that leads to a peaceful, permanent solution of Falklands’ dispute”
Self-determination is the only solution that will lead to a permanent, peaceful solution to the Falklands’ sovereignty dispute with Argentina said Falkland Islands lawmaker Roger Edwards addressing a regional seminar of the UN Decolonization Committee in Ecuador.
“We have no desire to become a colony of Argentina – for that is exactly what we would be if Argentina had its way” underlined the member of the Falklands Legislative Assembly adding “there can be no negotiations over the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands”.
MLA Rogers said that the Falklands are very happy with their current status emphasizing that the principle of self-determination is enshrined in Article 1, paragraph 2, of the Charter of the United Nations.
Further more UN Resolution 1514 indicates that “the subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental rights”.
And this is particularly enlightening since “Argentina has included the full transfer of sovereignty in its own Constitution as the only acceptable outcome, (in the event of negotiations) ignoring our rights and the principles of the United Nations Charter”.
MLA Rogers said that this attitude is also evident and supported by “the many aggressive attempts by the Argentine Government to impede certain sectors of our economy”, but “our approach is not to react to each and every report but to continue to develop the economy in our way, and to ensure we are not diverted by outside influences”.
The Falklands representative made a detailed account of the transformation of the Islands into a prosperous dynamic community, self sufficient with a sound economy based on fisheries, tourism and agriculture efficiently managed which has enabled the local treasury to accumulate sufficient reserves and deliver excellent education and health services to the Islanders, plus enviable infrastructure.
This has been accompanied by a new and very much post colonial constitution which is reflected in the fact that “we pass our own Legislation, issue our own licences and have our own environmental controls. We are internally totally self-governing” and self financed.
“We receive no aid from, nor pay any taxes to the UK, relying on our sovereign power only to provide advice on foreign affairs and defence, which would not be necessary it not for the belligerent stance taken by our nearest neighbour”.
MLA Rogers rebuked Argentina’s argument that the Islanders are an implanted population recalling that history tells a tale of natural immigration in much the same way as Argentina was settled but with one major difference: the Falkland Islands had no indigenous people. Likewise some families can now claim 8th and 9th generations of people born in the Falkland Islands.
Finally in his closing words MLA Rogers said that before concluding, “may I be as bold as to remind this Special Committee of the plea by the Secretary General of the United Nations on 23rd February this year “to make tangible progress in assisting those territories to achieve self-determination”
The full speech to the Pacific regional seminar of the US Special Committee of 24 follows:
Mr Chairman, distinguished delegates, Ladies and Gentlemen. I am Roger Edwards, an elected Member of the Falkland Islands Legislative Assembly. I stand before you today to demand that Falkland Islanders are accepted as a people with the very basic of human rights, the right to determine their own future, the right of self-determination.
The principle of self-determination is enshrined in Article 1, paragraph 2, of the Charter of the United Nations. Article 1 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and Article 1 of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights affirm the right of all peoples to self-determination, and lay upon States parties, including those having responsibility for the administration of Non-Self-Governing and Trust Territories, the obligation to promote the realization of that right and respect it, in conformity with the provisions of the Charter.
We would be very alarmed if the Special Committee in any way weakened its commitment to self-determination, as enshrined in Resolution 1514, the Charter of the United Nations, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, and the practice of the UN 4th Committee. In this respect we would be very concerned if General Assembly resolutions or Special Committee considerations were interpreted in any way that undermined the primacy of Resolution 1514. Special Committee consideration of the Falkland Islands currently makes no express reference to our fundamental right of self-determination, and the outdated language on which consideration is still based predates many important developments within the UN system and global international community in relation to self-determination.
Argentina has made the claim that we are an implanted population, a population held in the Islands against our will by our Colonial Masters back in the United Kingdom and as such have no access to the right of self-determination. I would suggest that our history tells a very different story.
I would say to you that history tells a tale of natural immigration in much the same way as Argentina was settled but with one major difference: the Falkland Islands had no indigenous people. Argentina claims that Britain expelled the population from the Falklands in 1833 but that is so far from the truth. The facts are that the population was encouraged to stay and most did. Records actually indicate that they appear to have looked forward to an improvement in their situation under the British flag. At that time the population of 29 was made up of 3 British, 2 German, 1 French and 23 Spanish speaking, 18 of whom came from Buenos Aires. In the 2006 census, the permanent residents shown were born in a total of 62 different countries including Chile, Argentina and Uruguay. The 2012 census is expected to show a population which has grown to over 3,000.
The Falkland Islands are a group of islands in the South Atlantic, some 300 miles (450 Kilometres) from the coast of Argentina. There are two main islands, East and West Falkland, and about 750 smaller islands. The total landmass is about 4700 square miles (12,713 square kilometres) making them slightly larger than Jamaica, Lebanon or Cyprus, and they are as large as the 25 smallest member states added together. The Islands rise to a maximum of 705 metres (Mt Usborne). The climate is cool temperate being somewhat muted by the influence of the cold South West Atlantic. The soil is acidic peat overlying a sandstone base. The language is English and we have our own currency on par to the pound sterling.
The Islands have been under continuous sovereignty of the United Kingdom for 179 years except for a brief period of 74 days in 1982 when they were illegally occupied by the armed forces of Argentina.
Some families can now claim 8th and 9th generations of people born in the Falkland Islands. During those 179 years the Islands have developed from being a Colony until today we are a modern Overseas Territory of the United Kingdom, internally self governing and, moreover self financing. We receive no aid from, nor pay any taxes to the UK, relying on our sovereign power only to provide advice on foreign affairs and defence, a defence which would not be necessary were it not for the belligerent stance taken by our nearest neighbour.
Since the eviction of the Argentine forces in June 1982 the Islands have moved forward with a new found energy and confidence. We have a new and very much a post colonial constitution which reflects our aspirations and determination to press forward with internal self governance.
Every four years we have open and free elections to vote Members to the Assembly. We have two constituencies, Stanley and Camp, Camp being the rest of the Islands outside Stanley, and we elect five Members for Stanley and three for Camp. We have a four year term in office. The eight Members elect annually three of their colleagues to sit on the Executive Council. Although the Governor chairs Executive Council, only the three elected Members have a vote. We pass our own Legislation, issue our own licences and have our own environmental controls. We are internally totally self governing.
We have established one of the best managed fisheries in the world where the local companies now own the resource and they are encouraged to exploit that resource to bring the best possible benefits to the Islands while maintaining stocks at levels that guarantee the fishery for future generations. Income from this fishery was used to help the Agricultural sector through a very significant downturn and now, with this investment and help, we see a very prosperous farming community producing both high grade wool and meat, from a EU approved abattoir, with both products being sold across the world.
In the late 1990s, the Falkland Islands Government issued the first exploration licences to search for hydrocarbons off the shores of our Islands in full accordance with the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. Poor results and a very low oil price brought that round to an end without conclusion. In 2010 a second round of offshore Licences was issued by the Falkland Islands Government and this time one Company claims to have found commercial, exploitable quantities of oil to the North of the islands. Exploration continues to the South of the islands.
Our children receive free education from nursery until completion of their first degree from university. Our expanding economy and exciting future prospects attract our youngsters back to the Islands where they can find interesting, worthwhile and well paid employment. Recently we have our own students returning as Vets, Doctors, Teachers and well qualified apprentices. We are actively looking at how computers can improve distance learning for our youngsters and adults alike.
We have a well run and efficiently managed health service free at the point of contact that can look after the needs of a modern society. Visiting specialists cover areas where we lack that special expertise and we can, and do, send difficult medical and surgical cases overseas for treatment. We are currently looking at ways of improving the hospital’s diagnostic procedures by linking into front line specialist hospitals in the UK by use of computers and the Internet.
Communications throughout the islands have been improved over recent years by building over 1000 kilometres of Camp Track, by introducing a ferry service between East and West Falkland, and also to the outlying islands and by using our own Islander aircraft to provide an aerial taxi service. Our population is not large enough to make these services completely viable and so the Falkland Islands Government subsidises the service in order that it is made affordable to the Islanders.
Tourism continues to grow and we now have over 60,000 cruise ship passengers visiting the islands annually. Many come just to see the wonderful wildlife on offer still in its environmental idyll. Land based tourism is steadily growing but we recognise that it still needs much investment.
Our economy is strong and we are in the most fortunate position of having two and a half times our annual operating budget in reserves, a situation many countries would fervently wish for. Our Government has made the decision that the Annual Budget is at break even or better and, as a result, any surplus can be invested in our savings to off set the ever presence of inflation.
Mr Chairman, we live in fortunate times in the Falkland Islands and our people wish for that to continue. We have no desire to become a colony of Argentina – for that is exactly what we would be if Argentina had its way. There can be no negotiations over the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands. The United Nations did not enshrine peoples’ universal rights into its Charter, only for member states to then negotiate those away. Argentina appears to have no desire to negotiate or respect the United Nations Charter. Argentina has included the full transfer of sovereignty in its own Constitution as the only acceptable outcome, ignoring our rights and the principles of the United Nations Charter. Islanders wish to retain the status quo and remain as they are, after all, as stated in Resolution 1514 “ the subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental rights”. The Special Committee should not seek to support any form of negotiations that might open the possibility of the subjugation, domination and exploitation of our people under Argentine sovereignty.
We currently face many aggressive attempts by the Argentine Government to impede certain sectors of our economy. Our approach is not to react to each and every report but to continue to develop the economy in our way, and to ensure we are not diverted by outside influences. We must concentrate on our goals and our agenda, not someone else’s. Falkland Islanders are resilient and resourceful. They are used to standing up for themselves and they are steadfast in their resolve.
Mr Chairman, before concluding, may I be as bold as to remind this Special Committee of the plea by the Secretary General of the United Nations on 23rd February this year “to make tangible progress in assisting those territories to achieve self-determination”. He reminds you that it is within your power to develop innovative approaches and new dynamics to achieve this goal.
Mr Chairman, every year we put forward arguments in support of our human rights, in order that this Committee will one day recognise its own obligations under the UN Charter and respect our right of self-determination. Hopefully this year, the Special Committee will recognise that the people of the Falklands will always be here, and as has been proven right across the globe many times before “self-determination” is the only solution that will lead to a permanent, peaceful solution.
Mr Chairman, thank you.
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But will The Mad Bitch of Argentina change her mind, the constitution and remove the lies from what they teach their children about the Falklands (there are no Malvinas)?
One can only hope.
I think they should be thanking us, then.
(using British logic about our junta falling after the war).
The special committee is corrupt.
Most of the countries that make up the 'special committee' have openly supported Argentina's claim on the Falkland Islands before this seminar started. Thus rendering this entire process a joke. They probably wrote their statement and recommendations out weeks ago with help from CFK.
If the special committee were to be taken seriously it would be made from neutral countries!
Here is a statement that should be a warning of there intentions.
'Ecuador's foreign minister, Ricardo Patino, advocated that the so-called “administrative powers” do not have the will of the colonized territories and criticized the euphemism called upon States occupants.
The owner stressed the importance of giving a different meaning and critical to the Seminar, a sense that challenges and question the circumstances of colonization.'
Take note of the term 'different meaning' to the seminar.
It is unfortunate that the venue does not permit the detailed exposure of the argie lies. There are, at worst, dozens. Ranging from the argie concept that they could claim a territory already claimed 55 years before, through “settling” on a territory already owned by someone else, through thinking that being an “asshole” confers rights, that being “asshole wankers” confers “rights”. Is there any intelligent (south americans need not apply) person that can believe that a British territory that existed 35 years before any south american territory existed could be “south american”? South Americans? For the most part, just a bunch of butt f*ckers and c*ck suckers!
Falkland Islands have agreed with Britain on a new Constitution to take affect by January 1 2009, replacing a charter adopted in 1985.The new document approved by Queen Elizabeth 2 ,formalizes the system of self government on the South Atlantic Archipelago while giving Britain the final say on Foreign Policy,Policing and the Administration of Justice according to a joint statement.The statement also said that the new Constitution clarifies the relationship between the Executive Council and the Islands' Governor who is appointed by the London Government.
It makes clear council members are responsible for domestic policies BUT the Governor retains VETO power that can be exercised “ in the interests of the good governance” .Britain still retains responsibility for External Affairs , Defense, Internal Security,Administration of Justice.
Max,Thank you.
'I save in dollars because I feel it's my right to do so,' Aníbal Fernández
www.buenosairesherald.com/article/102312/i-save-in-dollars-because-i-feel-its-my-right-to-do-so-aníbal-fernández
I take it you, your family and the vast majority of your countrymen will be returning to Iberia (and Italy, Germany, Wales, etc...) in order to fully realise your dreams of self-determination. Oh wait...
Shear hypocrisy Senior Alejandro, shear hypocrisy based upon greed and false sense of entitlement. Whereas the US seems to have given up on 'manefest destiny' a century ago, you and your ilk seem intent on resurecting such jingoistic ideals for Argentina. Alas, the peoples of the Falkland Islands are not so defensless as the native North Americans were.
@15 Steve-32-uk
Alas, I fear that you are correct. A statesman's elegant words of principal, recited to a mob of kangaroos, are wasted words. How the c24 has survived this long is beyond me, and why the Falkland Islands et. al. are still included on their little list when for all intents and purposes many (if not all) are self-governing is beyond me (is it because their govenor is appointed rather than directly elected? If so, shouldn't the UK itself be on that little list, we have a non-elected head of state of German ethnic origin after all).
Sunday 1 April 2012
“Any ”acceptable settlement” (The Falklands: 30 years on, 31 March) will recognise that the islands belong to Argentina, by virtue of the principle of uti possidetis juris.“
”So the islanders have the security of Mount Pleasant defence but not of international law.”
Peter Hamilton
Much Marcle, Herefordshire
www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/apr/01/falkland-islands-principle-international-law
Love the Buenos Aires Herald article above about Aníbal Fernández. Reminds me of Christine Lagarde criticising Greeks for not paying taxes when........
You'll have to re-write your speech only using words of four letters or less, then maybe they will begin to understand.
Tobias - As a Falkland Island resident, and married to a Falkland islander, I would say that many Falkland Islanders would agree with you on that one point. There is no doubt that in the 60's and 70's many in the UK political world still saw things from a historical colonial viewpoint. However, the war made them realise the truth of the situation here, and things progressed, moving towards far more self-determination. So if we should be grateful to you for that, you should be grateful for our defiance of the Junta leading to democracy for you. The final part of the jigsaw is for your new-found democracy to recognise our right to self-determination............
@16 and @22 Conqueror, you occasionally write well-reasoned pieces - why do you have to sink back into foul-mouthed abuse? You are no better than the rest of the other side...........
this is getting no one, knowhere,
The truth is that Argentinian claims to the Falkland Islands are based on historical misinformation and not fact. The Argentine claims are based solely on geographical proximity and they are without any legality.
In any case the right of self-determination is of paramount importance and Argentina's claims since the 1950's have been made as a smoke-screen to cover poor governance at home and political ineptness.
The principal of uti possidetis juris is not universaly accepted and in any case it does not trump the principal of self-determination enshrined in the UN charter and various general assembly resoultions (you know, those non-binding advisory resolutions which you Malvinistas love to trot out AND violate on a whim).
In any event, as of Argentinas independence [from the Spanish empire] the Falkland Islands were a disputed territory. Both Spain and Britain had claims of the islands and neither had forfeited said claims. Thus, at best, Argentina can claim to have inhereited Spain's claim (even though Spain continued to claim the Falkland Islands for some time post independence). 180 years of unbroken British sovereignty (bar 1829-1833 and 1982) and a population who resolutely refute the Argentine claim, many of whom can trace their ancestry back 8/9 generations (to the original non-aligned Vernet settlement) rather trumps your cries of 'uti possidetis juris!' and attempts to apply it retrospectively (I doubt there was such a thing as international law in the early 19th century, much less any recognition of uti possidetis juris by the 'international community' outside of newly independent latin american colonies scrambling for territory.
Also, it may seem odd to your, but points of principal and international law aren't decided by letters to the editor. This particular chap is displaying conviction to a principal as shallow as a worms grave, based on crude notions of territorial inheritence.
The application of such shallow and ill thought out legal principals as uti possidetis juris has hardly been a great success story. In the places where it has been applied (in particular Africa and the Middle East) it has resulted in artificial nation states comprising myriad warring factions/tribes.
Long Live the Falklands.
So imaging the chaotic situation if this was allowed to happen,
By Christ you would have the argentines claim the planet .
You and Think don't have able to defend enough Argentina here.
maybe you are the same person.
“Truth can be a dangerous thing. It is quite patient and relentless”
Looks like you are having a hard time to hide the truth...
“Falkland Islanders have criticised the Government's official history of the 1982 war, claiming that it contains a series of ”serious“ errors which make it too sympathetic to Argentina's claims to the territory”
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/7331547/Official-British-history-of-the-Falklands-War-is-considered-too-pro-Argentina.html
What are you waffling on about now Senior Alejandro?
That rather pointless (strawman?) link of yours points to an entirely valid complained made against an 'official' history text. Personally, I've always though that 'official' histories were ill-advised. More a matter for propagandists than serious historians.
“I was trying to explain the nature of the arguments. I was not looking at any primary sources. I couldn't claim to be a historian of that period. My remit was to write about 1982.”
Note, Senior Alejandro, that the author of the contested history admitted to doing NO PRIMARY RESEARCH. In light of a lack of primary research, his references to the 18th and 19th century history of the Falkland Islands is so much ill sourced guff. Any reputable authory/historian writing an OFFICIAL history should know better than to repeat rhetoric and propaganda without checking primary sources.
Of course these concerns did make it into the pages of a major daily newspaper. I wonder whether similarly contentious claims against Argentinas official history would be so published? I suspect that they'd either not be published or such complaints would be shouted down by a baying mob of jingoistic shivs.
just a thought
In terms of the Argentine argument as ever its nonsensical and whimsical hence the reason why Argentina will not go to the ICJ with it because it knows it has no valid claim.
And unlike YPF Argentina can't steal the islands with the UK's might protecting it from the illogical and amoral attempts at bullying and harassment of the islanders to get a outcome.
Argentina as any bully does when it runs into someone who can easily take it down then cries wolf to anyone who will listen.
Think about it...
UN resolution 2065 states clearly that the FI could become an independent nation if they so choose. An independent nation is the permanent solution the UN wants.
www.falklands.info/history/resolution2065.html
So tell me a instance when the Falkland Islanders would choose to become part of Argentina instead of becoming an independent nation?
Duke of Wellington
John Troutbeck(British Foreign Office, 1936) branded the British takeover in 1833 as “the actions of international bandits.”
Marcos won't answer that. He can't.
He (and CFK) know in a 10 second soundbite that an audience will hear “British colonialism” and think “bad”.
Anyone who looks or listens for more than the sound-bite: 3000 inhabititants, 99.9% happy with the status quo. 180 years settlement. Victims of bullying by Argentina. Self-determination. No displaced civilian population ever....see through the lunacy, hypocrisy and greed of the Argentine Reich.
So...soundbite “British colonialism, poor Argentina, return las Malvinas” gets sympathy.
full story....gets ridicule and contempt for Argentina.
#40 May I suggest to read the facts from another source rather than Roger Lorton? aka in MercoP as redhoyt/hoytred/lorton, living in far away Thailand.
“May already! This occasional commentary piece has become very occasional. Of course the reason for this is that I’ve devoted rather more of my time to the Falklands History Blog and the Falklands News site.”
lordton1955.wordpress.com/2012/05/13/lets-hear-it-for-expense-accounts/#comments
General Assembly resolution 2065 of 1965 confirmed no such thing. It invited Argentina and the UK to negotiate a solution to a “dispute” on the basis of General Assembly Resolution 1514 (Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples).
A UK negotiation initiative later culminated in the Argentine invasion of 1982.
Neither resolution 2065 nor 1514 provides for the forcible transfer of population or territory, and especially not on the basis of anything as comically mendacious as the Argentinian claim to the Falklands.
Nice succinct statement
Your very many friends in the mainland UK are foursquare behind you- until Argentina changes its constitution (as alluded to by Ms Castro but then retracted), there can be no “dialogue”.
You are completely masters of your own destiny and we in the UK will support that 100%. If you decide to be ruled by another country, we will respect that too - but I think Hell will freeze over first!!! ;-) (All flames/ trolls - I invite your comments!)
the world owes the UK big. and the world just wants to forget what it owes
Will be a very sorry, violent, insecure , bloody doctorial , and barbarous place to live it ,
Unless of course you hate the British,
Then it is irrelevant
Is it not .
.
AHAHHAHAHAHHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAH!
Say Mr Martinez rogers! Oops..How did roger got there.....
”Imploring the Special Committee not to adopt the resolution as presented, Roger Edwards, an elected official of the Legislative Assembly of the Falkland Islands, and one of several petitioners to take the floor on the issue, pointed out that the text had been drafted without a reference to the wishes of the Falkland people and their fundamental right to self-determination. “Falkland Islanders do not wish to see a change from British sovereign status,” he declared. The Islands had never formed part of Argentina; they were self-sufficient, self-governing and enjoyed a high standard of living. “Please respect our people’s wishes and our right to self-determination,” he said
www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2011/gacol3225.doc.htm
Just join the crying band,roger robber!,scum!LIAR!
Pop quiz argentina the Beitish have been on the falklands since 1833 and even built and airbase and deployed aPRINCE!
what do you do.
A whine and throw an trantum obviously:)
Remember. Any text that mentions the Falkland Islands translates into Malvinistian as 'Malvinas son Argentinas'.
It doesn't matter what it really says.
:-)
They talk about “ self determination ” rights on about few soldiers settled islands.
British settlers = Imperialist colonialist pirate squatters with no rights
Spanish settlers = The rightful owners of everything (despite the genocide)
How's that work then?
The territory was under argentine administration until you invaded them in 1833.
Give one good reason why we should give it to you?
Not like your a threat
Not like you can pay us
Not like their is anything we want from argentina.
So no we will be keeping it ( actually the kelpers will but thats obviously to complicated for you to grasp)
You invaded the islands first when they were under argentine administration. The Malvinas belong to us by law. It is ridiculus to support a territory 12000 km away from UK. You need 1 soldier for each kelper.
Excuse me, I forgot to say that you use Mount pleasant to train soldiers which after go to afghanistan, irak, etc, sorry.
You always say that kelpers elect their own authorities, but democracy is far away from “falklands”, many of the legislative assemblers have interests in the fishery industry. They like Money, not UK or Britain. Do not try to say sth. against them.-
It is interesting that our Government (Argentina) is now floating the “uti possidetis” boat to see if they can legitimize their dodgy claim to the Islands. Now that has worked fairly well on the SA continent, but if the Tinman tries it on with the Islands he is going to lose hands down because WE LOST THEM IN THE 1982 WAR. Simple.
Statement By Her Excellency Mrs. Rasie Kargbo
Ambassador & Deputy Permanent Representative
Before the Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples.
The Principle of self-determination, enshrined in the United Nations Charter remains a prime factor in any consideration of the question of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas). Therefore as much as we remain committed to our mandate as member of the Special Committee on Decolonization which is clearly, “the eradication of colonialism in all its forms and manifestations”, we are not oblivious to the basic principles outlined in General Assembly Resolution 1514 of December, 1960, which forms the basis of the Committee “All peoples have the right to self determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development”.
GAME OVER
this is the 21st century,
stop living in the past .
After signing the “Convention of Settlement in 1850” Argentina published maps in the 1870s and 1880s which showed that the Falklands DID NOT BELONG TO ARGENTINA. The 1882 Latzina map clearly indicates this fact.
It is therefore conclusive that Argentina has no legal claim to the Falkland Islands. End of argument...
www.flickr.com/photos/53629230@N02/5040513492/
In any event, the islands were not under Argentine administration until 1833. Vernet recognised UK sovereignity. Nor was there an “invasion”, there was first and foremost a policing operation triggered by piracy of American vessels and a chaotic attempt to implant a garrison which ended in murder, mutiny, and bouncers being called in from the Royal Navy.
As for the question of self-determination, it is not for Argentina to determine who has it and who doesn't, or who is party to the “dispute” and who isn't. Self-determination is a principle which the UK state allows its own citizens (so long as they keep it democratic). And as you state yourself, the islanders are UK citizens. This is probably a difficult concept to grasp for those of a more authoritarian background and/or disposition, but it seems that the UN at least is getting the hang of it.
Only a simple minded buffoon cannot understand that EVERYBODY has the right to Self Determination. That is EVERYBODY. No everybody EXCEPT the Falkland Islanders.
And only your indoctrinated brain washing teaches you that the British invaded the islands in 1833 and usurped Argentine rule. History tells a very different story. You are simply too stupid to accept that there might be a point of view that opposes the one that you have been programmed with by your government.
Try thinking for yourself for a change.
Should I trust in a story written by the legislative assemblers?
Tell me the truth story of what has happened in 1833. I listen.
YOU HAVE TOO A POINT OF VIEW PROGRAMMED BY YOUR GOVERNMENT.
You'd have thought if the Argentine claim was so 'concrete' that they would have gone to the ICJ about this, and they haven't.
Why? Because they know they're lying through their teeth and they'd be told exactly where to go.
The proof is in the blood of the Islanders, a lot of their forefathers, and mothers, were among the original settlers on the islands, the very people that Perón and his fake historians said had been chucked out by the Brits.
If the civil population was expelled in January 1833 how was there an existing civil population including 2 gauchos in March 1833 when Charles Darwin did his inicial ride through the Camp?
How come our famous, or should I say notorious “hero”, Antonio Rivero, was still on the Islands in March 1833 if the civil population was expelled in January of the same year?
Unfortunately for Argentina this business of the expulsion of the civil population does not hold up.
@52 1690, actually.
@60 Actually, the Islands have been under British administration since 1690. Isn't that 120 years before you lot existed?
@62 Shall we take your stupid comments one by one? “Why UK was about to give the Malvinas back to argentina before 1982?” That's what the Foreign Office does. It's not called the Foreign Office for nothing. “Anything to keep foreigners happy.” is their mantra. “You invaded the islands first when they were under argentine administration.” I already answered that. “The Malvinas belong to us by law.” Whose law? Not British law. Not Falklands law. “It is ridiculus to support a territory 12000 km away from UK.” We like ridiculous. In 1939-45, it was ridiculous of us to go to war against Germany, Italy, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Japan etc. Did it anyway! “You need 1 soldier for each kelper.” Sorry? Barring recent arrivals, there are 3,140 Islanders. There are 1,200 soldiers. That's more like 1 soldier for every 3 Islanders. “Excuse me, I forgot to say that you use Mount pleasant to train soldiers which after go to afghanistan, irak, etc, sorry.” I'm also sorry. What we do in OUR territory is OUR business. Not yours!
@69 The problem, for you, is that we can prove our “story”. Can you prove yours? For instance, where are the logs that should have been kept by the pirate David Jewett? What about the logs of Jose Maria Pinedo? What about his list of the “passengers” he transported from the Falklands? These are items that any ship's captain would keep. Where are they? Not enough space to tell you about 1833!
It goes without saying that Argentina has no legal rights to the Falkland Islands and their claim is based solely on proximity which has no legal basis.
As far as the UN goes, Argentina does not want to talk to the UK government on the Falkland Islands it wants to dictate. The right of self-determination is the overwhelming principle.
Its just a popularity contest to her .
The more she brings em up, the more popular she becomes,
The more she avoids tell the public what a mess the country is in,
The more the brits get the blame,
And the more popular she becomes.
Her delusional image knows no bounds .
Spot on. CFK is just using the Falklands to distract the gullible Argentine public away from her disasterous government's economic policies.
Between 1845 and 1849 Britain and France blockaded, attacked and tried to topple the Argentinean government and invaded Uruguay.
The Settlement of 1850 was signed after Britain and France failed, again to take control over our mainlan. Malvinas case has nothing to do with this.
Considering the Great Pirate Outrage of 1833, you'd think it would be prudent, a mere 17 years later, to specifically exclude the Falklands, if no settlement were intended.
So this guy is using aneye patch like a pirat (cuac) because he only says a part of the UN resolutions 1514 but it seems he didnt read it all...
They say they are self-sufficient but to get self determination it cannot violate territorial integrity right which is the supreme right which says every nations is equal to the Law...
thats why the UN resolution 2065 was made, to put it in clear that the solution are negotiations between argentina and UK not the islanders...
the islanders said the same in all descolonization committee and they always lose, at least change the strategy, you seems to be parrots (cuac again) LOL
Where exactly does resolution 1514 say that?
en.wikisource.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_1514
Come here you English pig dog and I will show you how much Brazilian chorizo you can really take.
My mum made me a homosexual.
Send her the wool, she will make you one too!
@82 “This guy is a lawmaker and still does not realize that the UN resolution 1514 that mentions self determination says it cannot violate partially or totally the territorial integrity of nations...” you have answered your own question kind of lol 82. remind us was this before or after Argentina thrown the UN rule book out the window by invading the Falklands. Cause if there set before it kind of wipes the slate... just a thought
even so the Falklands have never really been Argentina bar the few years they “claim” to have been there pre 1833 though from sources i have read that complicated ( does 33 men, women and children really constitute a thriving colony?) and the few weeks the invaded in 1982
@84 British bulldog, no pig dogs here. though if your looking for pigs i hear Argentina has a few
CFK is using it to distract from Argentina's real problems. for most brits it mildly entertaining at best
personally i believe the islanders would much rather independence then coveting to an Argentine colony. im certain the could come to some arrangement with a major power for military support. i would think the US would like to have a military base in the south Atlantic but im sure they would prefer to keep the British armed forces and the general pubic would prob agree
It will never happens with the current population....keep dreaming ex empires..
@84 British bulldog, no pig dogs here. though if your looking for pigs i hear Argentina has a few
Really PUNK trabuco???You are vomitive! hooligan unemployed!
:-)
im only here because its mildly entertaining watching you people bark up the wrong trees and shoot yourself in the feet. well the government anyway. its fun to watch the defenders of the government come out declaring there vague claims and resolutions. Why is it you want the islands? Because there yours? because we took them from you? Why?
The Falklanders obviously know how to run a first-class-kick-ass operation; I'm sure they could kick RG's butt into shape too - given the chance and about 200 years.
Running argentina like the old joke I wouldnt start from here.
There decision will be final.
Out of interest, I got this of my other blogg/sites,
BOSSANO REMINDS C24 ECUADOR SEMINAR OF SPAIN’S COLONIAL HISTORY
www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=25058
it may well concern the falklands .
UK when Argentine let's this pirats do as they wish in our oceanp and land???? In any case the fakland island company is not a country but a company who thefted Argentine governor luis vernet's land including his cattle ranch. Get a life british loosers. www.the-falkland-islands-co.com/index.php?section=0
you do not own the oceans .
6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.
7. All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non- interference in the internal affairs of all States, and respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial integrity.
we all agree then
[you first]
British ownership of the Falklands is no more a violation of Argentine's territorial integrity than British ownership of the Isle of Wight is.
The islands are well outside Argentine territorial limits and have never been Argentine.
However, it was Argentina that disrupted The territorial integrity of the Falkland Islands by illegally invading it.
This incidentally was counter to UN resolution 2065, which did not prescribe that invading the Falkland Islands was a solution that the UN approved of.
The subsequent Argentine refusal to follow UN resolution 502 means that Resolution 2065,( which only came about because the Argentines innacurately portrayed past history to the UN), died in 1982.
Can you tell us @99, why you place so much account on UN resolutions, when Argentina ignores UN resolutions itself?
= Pot-kettle-black.
UN Resolution 2065 (XX) of 16 December 1965, calls on Argentina and Britain to seek a peaceful solution to the Falklands issue within the framework of UN Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960. Section 2 of Resolution 1514 is clear: “all peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development”.
The above is also reason the UN will never quote self-determination for the Falkland Islanders under the current set-up. As for the FI to be on the De-colonization list mean the UN see the FI as a colony.
UN Resolution 1514 (XV)
'Recognising that the peoples of the world ardently desire the end of colonialism in all its manifestations,'
If the C24 were to quote self-determination it would effectively give their blessing for the FI to remain a BOT, (under Section 2 of Resolution 1514) which the UN doesn't want. The UN want the FI to be an independent nation as they know the Falkland Islanders don't want to be part of Argentina.
Hence Resolution 2065 (XX) noting the word 'objectives'.
'with a view to finding a peaceful solution to the problem, bearing in mind the provisions and objectives of the Charter of the United Nations and of General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV)'
Its easier to have a look at the below link regard a similar case Gibraltar, Note that they also use the term 'interests of the people'.
en.wikisource.org/wiki/Consensus_on_Gibraltar_by_the_UN_Committee_of_24_in_1964
58 years later and there is still no outcome on Gibraltar !
Has the C24 actually achieved anything in the last 20 years ?
To be fair, let's wind everybody's clock back to 1713.
to send everybody back, to where they came from,
then one must be a example for others to follow,
so=you first , argentines 2nd ,
I'm guessing you finally understand my points @40 & @104.
Self-determination is applicable, but will not be applied by the C24 unless the FI become an independent nation.
Effectively meaning that Argentina will never gain sovereignty of the FI, using diplomacy... most of us know this anyhow.
Common sense tell us - Argentina is an implanted population (fact) and they have the right to self-determination. Why should it be different for the FI, even if any of the 29 civilians were forcibly removed, 180 years ago, which is very doubtful.
Also, an apology is required from yourself to the good people of Gibraltar for that pathetic comment.
“send the gibraltar people packing to britain and give it back to spain.”
- and send the murderous invaders packing to Europe and give South America back to the indigenous people who lived there before 1500.
Exactly right. The simplest and easiest solution to the problem is for the Falkland Islands to officially become an independent state and a member of the UN. Then the UN would back the Falklands if Argentina's aggression were to continue. Argentina's neighbors would immediately stop all support for Argentina's claims. UK forces could remain to protect the Falklands exactly as now. Britain could maintain the UK citizenship of Falkland Islanders who are now British citizens.
1) There was no breach of Argentine territorial integrity in 1833 because Argentina had not yet established sovereignty over the Falklands.
2) UNGA resolutions are not retroactive to situations that happened before the UN was founded and the wording of article 6 makes it clear that it is aimed at future breaches of territorial integrity, not past ones.
3) The territorial integrity article in 1514 was replaced by another one in UNGA resolution 2625(XXV)
Nothing in the foregoing paragraphs shall be construed as authorizing or encouraging any action which would dismember or impair, totally or in part, the territorial integrity or political unity of sovereign and independent States conducting themselves in compliance with the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples as described above and thus possessed of a government representing the whole people belonging to the territory without distinction as to race, creed or colour.
Argentina is not possessed of a government representing the Falkland Islanders.
104 Steve-32-uk & 111 mcarling
As per Resolution 2625(XXV) there are 4 ways in which a territory can be decolonised
1-The establishment of a sovereign and independent State, 2-the free association or 3-integration with an independent State or 4-the emergence into any other political status freely determined by a people constitute modes of implementing the right of self-determination by that people.
The UN did not insist that several Australian, French, Dutch, Danish, New Zealand, and US territories had to become independent to be decolonised. It accepted the arrangements they had made with their metropolitan states and that was good enough. The UK has complied with the UN decolonisation requirements by applying option 4 to its remaining territories, so the C24 has no business treating British territories any differently to other states' territories. The C24 is failing to fulfil its obligations, not the UK.
- and send the murderous invaders packing to Europe and give South America back to the indigenous people who lived there before 1500.
We took it fair and square as you say. The people are now Argentine. Not at all the same thing.
Argentina has only 1 territory dispute but the UK and USA has plenty....who is right and who is wrong here? No one hates Argentina but plenty of country's hate the USA and the UK...who is right and who is wrong?
Fair and square,
They invited you in for tea,
committed suicide in front of you, and those that were left, all agreed to give there Spanish friend, all there wealth , money , gold , land , property,
And all agreed to be come subservient to you,
Oh and you forgot, the alien came down and signed a letter stating Spain owned everything,
[But sadly you lost it]
mmmmmm
“We took it fair and square as you say. The people are now Argentine.”
They hardly exist, they were butchered in repeated genocides, one of the last of which were 'la Conquista del Desierto' when thousands were killed, following which many of the men were forced to 6 years of military service while other men were isolated on an island where they perished from starvation and deseases.
The women were held as house slaves in Buenos Aires. They were separated to ensure they did not have offspring.
From a speach in the Argentine congress “exterminar a los indios salvajes y bárbaros de Pampa y Patagonia”
If you have your information about “El blancheado” from Argentine history books, you have been severely misinformed and I recommend e.g. this monografía: www.monografias.com/trabajos/indigenas/indigenas.shtml - search ANEXO I named “UN MODELO DE GENOCIDIO: ARGENTINA-LA CONQUISTA DEL DESIERTO.”
A contemporary source also has a different story to tell:
La Nación del 21 January 1879:
“Llegan los indios prisioneros con sus familias a los cuales los trajeron caminando en su mayor parte o en carros, la desesperación, el llanto no cesa, se les quita a las madres sus hijos para en su presencia regalarlos a pesar de los gritos, los alaridos y las súplicas que con los brazos al cielo dirigen las mujeres indias. En aquel marco humano los hombres indios se tapan la cara, otros miran resignadamente al suelo, la madre aprieta contra el seno al hijo de sus entrañas, el padre indio se cruza por delante para defender a su familia de los avances de la civilización.”
Following la Conquista del Desierto there were money to earn for a pair of ears from an indigenous person.
Not exactly “The people are now Argentine”, but “the people were extinguished”.
Bottom line is Spain took the islands and gave them to us. You invaded and stole them from us...return them.
It is so simple, why continue with this nonsense.
@116 Spain tried to steal the Falklands from Britain. Spain abandoned the Falklands. Spain never gave, nor tried to give, nor intended to give, nor even contemplated giving the Falklands to Argentina. Britain reclaimed what was rightfully British. Spain recognized the Falklands as British. Argentina tried to steal the Falklands and failed. Game over.
Please shut the door on the way out,
It get draughty in here .
“More miss information. More indoctrination.”
Just words - no valid arguments - or are you claiming, that the Argentine newspaper La Nación was misinforming and indoctrinating the Argentine people in 1879?
The only way the Falklands could become Argentine in the next 50 years -- or ever -- would be for the Falkland Islanders to democratically choose to become a colony of Argentina. That would require Argentina to be much nicer to the Falkland Islanders than they have ever been in the past.
We all know and have known for some time, the only way you will ever get sovereignty of the FI is through another illegal invasion, with support from your extremist friends (Bolivarian Alliance).
give them back to us NOW! They are ours.(Vikings)
give them back to us NOW! They are ours.(Spain)
give them back to us NOW! They are ours.(Mickey and Minnie Mouse)
Give them back to us NOW! They are ours. ] Galtieri ]
Give them back to us NOW! They are ours.( CFK ]
Give them back to us NOW! They are ours.(who’s next ])
You are correct but...
The C24 is corrupt, a lot of the countries that make up the committee have publicly supported Argentina. They will never agree with the UK on BOTs... Only full independence will shut Argentina up.
@Marcos
You are a Moron
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moron
Winnie the Pooh?
The fairy god mother?
Easter Bunny?
goldilocks
and humpty dumpty .
ha ha .
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