Monday, February 10th 2014 - 04:06 UTC

Uruguay and Brazil prepared to a 'two-speed' Mercosur/EU trade negotiation

Uruguay and Brazil could be prepared to go ahead with a 'two speed' trade negotiations between Mercosur and the European Union if the Argentine tariff proposal is not as ambitious as that from the rest of its members, according to Uruguayan diplomatic sources.

Timerman said Argentina fears the EU won't change its domestic farm support policies

 Apparently Argentina's tariff reduction proposal is more conservative plus the fact that the government of president Cristina Fernandez does not believe the EU will effectively address its farm subsidies policy.

Mercosur members are supposed to meet this week in Caracas, Venezuela to make compatible the different tariffs reduction policies, and have an only proposal to exchange with the EU but Argentina is dragging its feet, added the Uruguayan sources. Negotiations are headed by Brazil which is anxious to reach an agreement with the EU since as of this year among other things it lost some specific tariff benefits.

“Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay are committed to this agreement”, said Brazilian foreign minister Luis Alberto Figuereido, who also admits Buenos Aires could be left out of the first round of negotiations. Venezuela the fifth of Mercosur full members is not participating of the negotiations since it has only recently joined the group.

Uruguayan sources also revealed that supposedly this month there is to be a meeting of EU and Mercosur delegates, which has yet to be confirmed.

“In February we are supposed to hold the first meeting, if the EU effectively comes up with a proposal”, said the sources who anticipated that Mercosur will have its counter proposal ready. The following step is for each side to analyze the other's proposal and decide if it is satisfying.

However if Argentina is not so wide-ranging about its proposal, Brazil and Uruguay have decided they will “present something more ambitious” to negotiate. In this scheme Mercosur members would then advance at 'two-speeds' in the talks with the EU: on the one side Brazil and Uruguay, and most probably Paraguay, and in the other Argentina.

Last Friday foreign minister Hector Timerman said that the EU subsidies policy to its farmers “could lead to a difficult situation to resolve, since one of the objectives of Mercosur is the opening of agriculture markets which remain closed to most of our farm produce, and Europeans enjoy a level of protectionism very much higher than what is acceptable for us”.

Timerman made the statements at the end of a meeting with different areas of the Argentine government to address how Mercosur/EU negotiations are advancing and more specifically the Argentine proposal.

“We are a bit concerned with the EU delay in finalizing its proposal and with the expressions from several European countries regarding the protectionism they practice in their domestic markets, particularly referred to agriculture”, Timerman was quoted.

Following an hiatus of six years the EU and Mercosur resumed negotiations for a trade and cooperation agreement in 2010, but protectionist measures implemented by Argentina and reported to the World Trade Organization, WTO, by the US, EU, among others plus the suspension of Paraguay from the block in June 2012, (following the removal of then president Fernando Lugo), delayed negotiations.

Brazil then revealed that the EU had requested to postpone the meeting with Mercosur for January, and later Brussels demanded from Mercosur to know with 'how many of its members would the negotiations be”.

134 comments Feed

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1 ynsere (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:39 am Report abuse
Time for CFK to dump Timerman. Serves him right for doing everything he's told to. His old man must be turning in his grave.
Then it'll be time for the Argentines to dump CFK and all Peronists. Don't think they're clever enough, though.
2 Anglotino (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:44 am Report abuse
The EU delay!

Bahahahahaha

How long has this farce being going on now?

Argentinean politicians operate in a bubble and when it pops the sound will be heard around the world.
3 Be serious (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:47 am Report abuse
These artificial trading blocs are a drag on the World Economy. Nation states should be allowed to make their own trade relationships and not be hindered by the likes of France and Argyland.
4 Anglotino (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 05:22 am Report abuse
Be serious

Do you realise what you just said made sense?
5 cornelius (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:38 am Report abuse
We need to leave Argentina and Venezuela out and leave them to their own communist ideas to hang themselves ”There is no education at the second kick of the mule”
6 ChrisR (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 10:08 am Report abuse
Brazil and Uruguay on their own? Oh yeah.

We will see wht TMBOA does about that!
7 JoseAngeldeMonterrey (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 11:26 am Report abuse
The “two-speed negotiations”, an elegant euphemism to say “Argentina can go to hell”.
8 Stevie (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 12:59 pm Report abuse
José
It's more a sign of respect for eachother trading preferences. All in line with what was decided in the Celec reunion in Habana.

You lot ever read the news? The proper ones?
9 Conqueror (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 01:05 pm Report abuse
“Mercosur” needs to bear in mind that the EU commonly imposes conditions unconnected with trade. Might find that they would be told to treat the Falkland Islands in accordance with international law and the UN Charter. No more complying with the diktats of the local nazi state. Falkland Islanders are citizens of the European Union. Might be a mistake attacking citizens of the EU. Just imagine being told they HAVE to trade with the Falkland Islands!
10 yankeeboy (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 02:05 pm Report abuse
Nobody wants an trade agreement with Argentina or Venezuela. They are both corrupt governments with no respect for rule of law, private property rights or contract law.
Brazil, Paraguay and Uruguay will have to negotiate outside of the constraints of MS. Soon enough MS will be dead.
It is just a matter of time.
11 Stevie (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 02:08 pm Report abuse
Everything dies yanqui.
It's always a matter of time...

Your prophecies are getting weak.
12 yankeeboy (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 02:16 pm Report abuse
11. Well, this can roll out 2 ways BPU will go at it along which is VERBOTEN by their MS agreement, so either it will have to be ignored or they'll have to leave.
I am just not sure which will happen so I can't give you a roll out.
But it will be sooner rather than later
Brazil is DESPERATE for an agreement with the EU. They are the ones driving this train.
Their balance of trade has already turned and will probably look much worse this 1st quarter since they've lost the EU trade preferences.
13 Stevie (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 02:20 pm Report abuse
If we look at where the noses are pointing, I'd say the EU wants this deal more than Brasil... Or should I say access to the market?
14 yankeeboy (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 02:38 pm Report abuse
Stevie, When did all of this start revving up? WHEN BRAZIL FOUND OUT IT WAS LOSING ITS TRADE PREFERENCES. Nothing has happened on the EU side, their import rates to Brazil have not changed nor are they changing in the future. The only variable that changed, and let me repeat this for you, BRAZIL LOST EU TRADE PREFERENCES begining Jan 2014.
Do you understand why BRAZIL IS DESPERATE NOW?
I really don't think I can be more clear.
15 Jack Bauer (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 02:39 pm Report abuse
Yr #8 Stevie, “”It's more a sign of respect for eachother trading preferences. All in line with what was decided in the Celec reunion in Habana.
You lot ever read the news? The proper ones?“”
A sign of respect ??? CELAC ?? Oh sure, let's respect ourselves until we're all in the crapper with CFK...
And the 'news' ? and which would the “proper ones” be ?? Do tell us, pleeeease......
16 Stevie (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 02:48 pm Report abuse
The EU gives trade preferences to developing nations. This must mean.... Brasil is doing something right, no?

See? Just look at where the noses are pointing...

;)
17 Fido Dido (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 02:50 pm Report abuse
“I'd say the EU wants this deal more than Brasil... Or should I say access to the market?”

EU is Germany. Its Germany that wants this deal to have more close relationship with Brazil. The Germans don't care about the French and the, who lose out, but care about them self because the nation with the most German manufacturing companies ouside Germany is Brazil. The German business club or whatever you want to call them, their close relationship with Brazil, mainly with Sao Paulo state, FIESP (Sao Paulo Industrial federation and today with other state industrial clubs or whatever you want to call them) goes way back and was “specially” strengthen before and begin ww2 ( one major example is IG Farben).
18 yankeeboy (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 03:07 pm Report abuse
16. Brazil could quickly turn back to a “developing” nation if these idiotic Marxists are forced out of power soon.
19 Stevie (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 03:14 pm Report abuse
Great, then they get the trade preference back!

Win-win!
20 yankeeboy (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 03:17 pm Report abuse
19. Once the lose them they'll not return anytime soon. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE DESPERATE.

Are you really an idiot or just playing one for attention?
21 Stevie (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 03:28 pm Report abuse
Desperate for what? Being a developed nation in the eyes of the EU and as such not needing any preferences, or the trade preference itself?

They'll get one or the other either way, yanqui...

You are desperate.

;)
22 yankeeboy (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 03:37 pm Report abuse
Desperate to come to an agreement on tariffs. Most “developed” nations have trade agreement with the EU. Brazil has nothing so they are paying much higher rates than they were in Dec 2013. They can see the exports dropping significantly. This doesn't effect the EU in the slightest only Brazil.

You don't understand how things work in the real world do you?
23 Stevie (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 03:48 pm Report abuse
I'm sure Merkel disagrees with you, have you seen the amount Brasil imports from Germany?
Fact is, Brasil would be better of with an FTA with Germany and the Netherlands only.
The EU is a matter of time anyway...
Just ask the... EUians...
24 yankeeboy (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 03:55 pm Report abuse
You have no idea what you are talking about. It is like trying to argue the sky is red.
Go bother someone else.

Care to comment on the 600 thefts in Palermo in the last 90 days? Seems like BA is turning into Caracas. Another lovely Marxist city.
25 A_neuTroll_Observer (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 03:56 pm Report abuse
Mass shootings USA up 300%, in four years!

thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2014/01/15/expert-mass-shootings-on-the-rise/

Just another NEUTROLL OBSERVATION
26 Stevie (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:02 pm Report abuse
No, why would I want to comment on that?
My crystal ball shows yet another shoutout in the USA. Seems USA is turning into... something rather particular indeed. Don't bother commenting, I know ;)
27 yankeeboy (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:08 pm Report abuse
5 a year to 15 a year IN THE WHOLE USA oh gosh I am so worried.
Silly retards learn to read a graph.

Chances are you can't wald in what is used to be considered a decent part of BA without getting mugged. Totally different.
28 Jack Bauer (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:10 pm Report abuse
@16...Brazil has at least realized that it DOES need Europe ; also needs the USA, Japan, China, etc, although they like to play it down to the public, to try to give the impression that they are the ones dictating the rules ...it needs trade partners who will buy, and these, while prepared to discuss special tariff agreements, will demand reciprocity, to avoid widening the trade imbalances...Brazil , and Argentina, have got to realize trade is a two-way street....something the latter refuses to acknowledge...that's why, those who can, should leave CFK to her own fate.
29 A_neuTroll_Observer (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:13 pm Report abuse
Argentina has to realize its a two way street????

F.U. You European cheaters have had one-way trade in your favor for 50 years. Times up.
30 Stevie (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:23 pm Report abuse
That IS true, what Nostril says, Jack...
31 yankeeboy (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:29 pm Report abuse
How can that be true if the EU hasn't even been around 50 years?
You two are retarded.
32 Stevie (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:38 pm Report abuse
Nobody said the EU, he said Europeans.

Your ignorance is affecting our retardation...
33 yankeeboy (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:44 pm Report abuse
and by Europeans he means what exactly?
Please provide some links too.
Because you are both talking utter nonsense.
34 A_neuTroll_Observer (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:44 pm Report abuse
Someone just got PWNED.

Just another NEUTROLL OBSERVATION.
35 yankeeboy (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:59 pm Report abuse
And by Europeans YOU mean what exactly?
Please provide some links to back it up.

FYI Argentina has the largest amount of cases at the ICSID and WTO.
Filthy scumbag scofflaws
That's the reputation.
36 A_neuTroll_Observer (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 05:04 pm Report abuse
Because Argentina is the only nation in the history of the planet to stand up to the USA and the EU and China, and Brazil, and others at the same time to point out they do exactly what they accuse Argentina of doing.

NEUTROLL OBSERVATION
37 yankeeboy (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 05:35 pm Report abuse
That's not true either...
And by Europeans YOU mean what exactly?
Please provide some links to back it up.
38 toooldtodieyoung (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 05:47 pm Report abuse
29 A_neuTroll_Observer

“F.U. You European cheaters”

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!!!!!!!!!

As apposed to what???

You South American cheaters??? ( and thieves and liars and back stabbers )
39 JoseAngeldeMonterrey (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 06:53 pm Report abuse
Brazil and Uruguay understand the critical importance of connecting their economies to EU. The US and Canada are already negotiating a free-trade agreement with EU, Mexico and other countries already have fta with EU.

Mercosur already looks like Africa when it comes to trade with the world, it´s all almost exclusively about primary products, raw materials, oil, crops and the like, it´s not about manufactured, higher-valued good.

A EU-Mercosur agreement will open the door to small and big manufacturers in South America, they will be able to send their products at favorable import quotas and tariffs free.
How hard is this to understand for those governing Argentina right now?
40 toooldtodieyoung (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 06:58 pm Report abuse
39 JoseAngeldeMonterrey

“How hard is this to understand for those governing Argentina right now?”

Because it's common sense that's why!!!

Do you realize what a powerhouse argentina COULD / SHOULD be in the right hands?

It's being held back by all the idiots that get voted into office, strip the country bare and then make off with the money.
41 Jack Bauer (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 07:20 pm Report abuse
@29 , Hi there New Troll, Wet Nostrils or whatever yr f*****g name is....just fyi, here in Brazil there's this product to eliminate termites...it's called Neutrol....so, from now on, I'm gonna callyou “ant-eater”....
“”Argentina has to realize its a two way street???? F.U. You European cheaters have had one-way trade in your favor for 50 years. Times up“”.
Before you start trying to defend your sorry ass, have you ever stopped to think , IF it's true, why you sell SFA to Europe ?? but that doesn't really matter, does it ? because what IS important, is that it's not your fault.....of course not....But, whether you like it or not, to have a successful, long-term commercial relationship with any country, it's got to be good for both sides...thus, two-way street.

And Stevie @30...you lost a good opportunity to keep quiet. Better luck next time.
42 Stevie (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 07:29 pm Report abuse
You mean it has been two-way until now? That's a ridiculous claim, it's been more of a highway-private road....
43 Jack Bauer (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 07:47 pm Report abuse
Stevie @42..I did NOT say it had been 'two-way until now'.....I gave you the benefit of the doubt because I don't have the stats regarding Argentina's foreign trade over the last few decades...what I DID say, and you didn't understand, is that a healthy foreign trade usually requires it to be 'two-way'...something that 'anteater hasn't grasped yet, either.
44 yankeeboy (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 08:00 pm Report abuse
43. Stevie is just using Tupa talking points. He can't back it up either so don't be too worried about it.
45 Anglotino (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 08:08 pm Report abuse
“Because Argentina is the only nation in the history of the planet to stand up to the USA and the EU and China, and Brazil, and others at the same time ”

As how is that working out for you right now Nostrils?

And you are not the first. There are a few other failed states such as Iran and North Korea that have already done that. How is it working out for them?

Behold your future.
46 Stevie (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 08:12 pm Report abuse
Jack
Nobody said otherwise. You were made aware that what you say is healthy, hasn't been a fact the last 50 years.
And that has stopped.

Nothing more.

No need to wet your pants in emotions...
47 yankeeboy (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 08:31 pm Report abuse
Stevie, back up what you are saying with some facts or SFU.
48 Stevie (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 08:37 pm Report abuse
My crystal ball.
49 yankeeboy (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 08:44 pm Report abuse
Don't be obtuse.
I'm asking you to back up your claim that the “europeans” have had a “1 way street” for 50 years in regards to trade.
50 Stevie (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 08:51 pm Report abuse
What? You upset my crystal ball is better than yours?

Normal.

Balls made of crystal is just not the same, is it?

Europe virtually stopped importing agricultural goods from SA after the WWII. Since then, the tune has been non-taxed technology vs taxed agricultural goods.

Look for your balls yet again and have a closer look...
51 toooldtodieyoung (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 08:57 pm Report abuse
50 Stevie

Is that it? That's all you got??? Let me just read it again....... Yup, Pretty sure friend “Yankeeboy” asked you to:-

“ back up your claim that the “europeans” have had a “1 way street” for 50 years in regards to trade”

and that's the best you can do?? Well, I stand in awe of your debating skills. The way that you put your point across.....it's so..........it's so....... Lame.

Hush now little one, the adults are talking.
52 yankeeboy (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 08:58 pm Report abuse
Those sound like opinions to me, brainwashed retarded opinions. Try posting facts with actual links and I think you'll be quite surprised at what you find.
53 Stevie (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:06 pm Report abuse
What? You lot have countless pages of drivel and you ask sources of me.

Try the school.
Any education center.

You want me toneducate you too?

Try google.

Do as usual, go for wiki...
54 toooldtodieyoung (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:07 pm Report abuse
What I really want to know is, why is it that ol' “Laughing boy Timerman” always, ALWAYS looks like he is in need of a good, stiff s**t?

The guy looks like he is just about to leave the room and “curl one out”

What is it? The job? His diet? or stress?
55 Stevie (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:09 pm Report abuse
“The adults are talking”
...
...
Bahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
56 Jack Bauer (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:19 pm Report abuse
Stevie, read yr #42 again, “You mean it has been two-way until now? That's a ridiculous claim”...and then yr #46 “Nobody said otherwise.”....YOU replied it was a “ridiculous” claim.....want to “reThink” your post ??
Yr final remark about “emotions” ?....childish, Trollish...
57 Stevie (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:23 pm Report abuse
It HASN'T been two-ways. To say anything else is indeed ridiculous.

It SHOULD be two-ways. Nobody stated anything to the contrary.

Is that setup easier for you?
58 toooldtodieyoung (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:29 pm Report abuse
52 yankeeboy

If you look at his post at 53 You will see that his main reference material comes from what he has been taught ( brainwashed ) at school and that other wonderful sepository of information, Wrongapedia.

No further questions your honour.
59 Stevie (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:32 pm Report abuse
I can assure you my schooling is of a much higher quality than yours.

It's obvious, you lot have problems with your own language...
60 yankeeboy (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:50 pm Report abuse
Day in and day out Stevie makes himself into a bigger fool.
Stevie, you may think you are educated and the smartest monkey in the zoo but alas you are still in the zoo.
61 Stevie (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:53 pm Report abuse
yanqui
What you learnt in school, I learnt on my history classes...
62 MagnusMaster (#) Feb 10th, 2014 - 10:01 pm Report abuse
@39 “A EU-Mercosur agreement will open the door to small and big manufacturers in South America, they will be able to send their products at favorable import quotas and tariffs free.
How hard is this to understand for those governing Argentina right now?”

They DO understand, that's why they are opposed to the EU deal. You see, Argentina doesn't want to import manufactured products from Europe, or any first-world country. Argentina wants to make as much manufactured products locally as possible, either for the local market or for export. It's called import subsitution. The reasoning is that with free trade, manufacturing countries will reap all the benefits while countries relying on raw products will be dirt poor.
If Argentina signs a FTA with the EU, the few manufacturers we already have will go bankrupt and wages will have to go down to be competitive. That's why free trade is regarded as a truly evil ideology by the Peronists, and by most Argentinians. Argentina isn't going to sign a FTA with anyone who might be a threat, no matter what Brazil does, at least until we can make competitve manufactured goods (that is, when hell freezes). Even if we sign a FTA it's not going to last for long.
63 Tarquin Fin (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 01:40 am Report abuse
Dear MagnusMaster:

Do you really think we can produce better cell-phones, flat-TVs and air conditioners than chinese, south-asian or even brazilian factories?

Import substitution was a great idea for us back in the late 40's and early 50's ... Would you honestly assert that a blackberry or samsung cell phone is best assembled at “Tierra Del Fuego” phoney hi-tech centres?

I recently (May '13) bought a SAMSUNG “Tierra Del Fuego” assembled LED TV. Assembling the 4 screw stand for it to stand tall in my living room caused me to go to the nearest hardware shop to find new screws ... the ones that came in the pack did not fit. Hail to the no-value-added-nac&pop-industry!!!!!
64 A_neuTroll_Observer (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 03:16 am Report abuse
@62

Well put. And furthermore, even if we did sign a free trade, the USA and Europe would not allow agricultural products because every time they have made it clear those are not part of “free trade”.

To the Euros and NorthAms, only products they produce are to enjoy free trade. Those they do not produce are to have tariffs.

And they think they will fool us? They might have fooled the rest of the world, but they miscalculated here.
65 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 05:38 am Report abuse
Snotty,

“ They might have fooled the rest of the world, but they miscalculated here.”

It's a good thing they have you on their side, Snotty
66 yankeeboy (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 11:36 am Report abuse
In a decade the Avg Rg may not have the means to communicate with the outside world. They will be so far behind in technology that the only people that will be able to contact civilization will be the very wealthy.
They've seen the last of our technology for a very very long time.

People seem to forget this was all tried before, import substitution, gads it was an utter failure, don't you know your own history?
Just one little example Argentina got color TV 25 yrs after we had it in the USA. Just imagine what it will be like in a decade. Things are moving a lot faster now.
Parts for electronics will become just as scarce as new electronics it will leave the middle to poor classes literally in the dark.
67 MagnusMaster (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 02:26 pm Report abuse
@63 I don't believe in import substitution but I don't believe that free trade is always good either. Yes, TdF is a joke. To be fair, I thought at first it was just a money grab by the government and nobody would even bother to put assembly plants there.

@66 Peronists don't see import substitution as a failure. They blame the 70s dictatorship and Menem for implementing neoliberal policies that destroyed the industry before it was ready. Peronists believe you need at least 50 years of uninterrupted import substitution for it to work. But I don't think Argentina will ever industrilize as long as our wealthy class wants quick, easy and safe profits from agriculture, real estate, speculation and corruption. Manufacturing is just too expensive, too risky and not profitable enough for them. And the poor would never want Chinese wages anyway.
68 yankeeboy (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 02:32 pm Report abuse
67. Argentinians don't want to work or innovate. The market is too small for any company to mfg something solely for Argentina and you can't compete in the open market.
It will always end up expensive and crappy. Like your warmish refrigerators and washing machines that catch fire.
Looks to Chile, you have a free market right next door, they don't have as many natural resources as Argentina and they are kicking your as*.
69 A_neuTroll_Observer (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 02:37 pm Report abuse
Kicking our ass?

They don't produce anything worth getting just because it is “Chilean”. Oh yeah, kicking ass right!
70 yankeeboy (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 02:44 pm Report abuse
69, Chile is moving UP the GDP by country scale while Argentina is moving DOWN.
Yes CLEARLY kicking your as*
71 A_neuTroll_Observer (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 02:54 pm Report abuse
Yeah, and when they have a devaluation (will happen eventually), it will all be erased in a heartbeat, 40 years of work, because they never actually began producing stuff people want “from Chile”.

Or what do you think they can go up and up without adding value to their products.

Look at Australia and how their economy is collapsing right now because they thought mining was the answer, and meanwhile they were losing all other economic sectors due to the overvalued currency. Now as their media has well put it, they are well on the fast lane to recession, and a VERY long one at that.
72 yankeeboy (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 03:15 pm Report abuse
71. Recessions are merely a correction to overheating, economies need them now and again to right themselves.
Do you seriously think growth is a straight line?
Even with 200+ years of unprecedented growth the USA has had up and down years.
Chile has very good reserves and a wealth fund for the size of their economy and population. I an sure they can weather any storm.

BTW you don't have to manufacture to create wealth. Look at Norway,their wealth is based largely on gas and oil. They just manage it well.
You really have a very poor education.
73 Tarquin Fin (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 03:25 pm Report abuse
Subsidized import substitution is not the answer. It is silly to pretend that we can beat the chinese at consumer electronics or home appliances. Even Brazil is light years ahead of what we can currently accomplish. Yet, Lady Cristina and its swarm of brainwashed militants keep on trying to convince us that those factories are top notch.

There are oh so many other opportunities to get a real industry. However realizing that goal takes serious effort and a lot of commitment.
74 CabezaDura2 (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 03:46 pm Report abuse
73
The logical thing to do in these last years would have being from the decent agro industrial machinery which has a good demand in the local natural market you could expand to small tractors, truck's lorries, tools, equipment, etc and export those,.. I just don’t get this idea of sampling pieces that arrive in Bs As of phones and electronic hardware in Tierra del Fuego and redistributing them back towards the country. Insane
75 yankeeboy (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 03:54 pm Report abuse
74. You can't compete with the USA and China on manufactured goods. In your whole history as a nation you've not ever made mass quality products at a fair price.
Who in their right mind would buy a product from Argentina when they can get one from the USA that is cheaper and better?
Also nobody is going to make huge capital improvement in factories when nothing is reliable, not electricity, not gas, not taxes, not imports, not exporting, not free flow of money, not currency, not workforce. Can you see where I am going with this?
It will never happen.
In fact I bet the few large mfgs you have ( mainly car) will pack up and leave as soon as hyperinflation starts. There is no reason to stay there.
76 Jack Bauer (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 04:05 pm Report abuse
Stevie @57....To keep it short and simple ...now, please pay attention :
In my #41 I said basically, that trade to be successful, should be two-ways...
Yr reply @42.. “You mean it has been two-way until now? That's a ridiculous claim”;
My #43 “I did NOT say it had been 'two-way until now'.....I gave you the benefit of the doubt etc...”“
Yr#46 ”Nobody said otherwise.“”“
So, now you are going to deny that in yr #42 you didn't affirm I had said it WAS two-ways ?? ...”that's a ridiculous claim“....one I never made.
Then to top it off, yr #57... ”It HASN'T been two-ways. To say anything else is indeed ridiculous. It SHOULD be two-ways. Nobody stated anything to the contrary. Is that setup easier for you?“”

Thanks for explaining to me what I was telling you all along...
77 CabezaDura2 (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 04:06 pm Report abuse
LOL when Im talking about the logical thing to do in the last years obviously I’m talking about a different perspective... In 2006 even Vassali was exporting harvesters to Khazajstan and Venezuela.
78 yankeeboy (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 04:09 pm Report abuse
77. Was that in trade for oil? That is the only way it makes sense. Unless the buyers are really stupid.
79 Tarquin Fin (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 04:20 pm Report abuse
Well, in the last 30 years we've been able to sell steel, hydro turbines, satellite assemblies, some specialized electronic designs, bio technical and pharma products, a few nuclear reactors and I'm pretty sure there are some additional items that I can't recall at the moment.

Most of that wasn't in exchange for oil.
80 CabezaDura2 (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 04:23 pm Report abuse
Khazajstan it seems paid with 3 million US$ in 2005 for 30 harvesters... Round that time I think the parity was 3,5 pesos per dollar. So to send all the way there it must mean Arg was competetive at the time

www.iprofesional.com/notas/15753-Vassalli-Fabril-logra-exportar-cosechadoras-a-Kazajstn
81 yankeeboy (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 05:04 pm Report abuse
I've been in sales all my life, believe me that there are a lot of stupid buyers out there.
I would imagine this deal was done at a high gov't level and there was more exchanged than just the harvesters.
82 CabezaDura2 (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 05:24 pm Report abuse
Borat ordered them...??

Well what I can say is what I heard from a friend of mine whose son worked there in Firmat at Vassalli, round the same time they were exporting and doing well. The problem they had was the time it tacked building a single unit I can’t remember well but if it was long, a couple of months at least. They were developing and testing the axial-flow model at the time… Don’t know what ever happened to them.
83 yankeeboy (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 05:36 pm Report abuse
I can almost guarantee that one of either of the Presidents or other high gov't officials were visiting and this was a show of faith in establishing some sort of trade or visa program.
It is just too far out of Argentina's sphere of influence for them to sell anything to that country.
It makes no business sense.
84 CabezaDura2 (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 05:41 pm Report abuse
Ok...How much did a US manufactured Massey Fergueson, John Deere, Case, New Holland axial-flow harvester cost in 2005??
85 yankeeboy (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 05:47 pm Report abuse
Better question is, how did some Kazakh farm implement dealer find an Argentinian mfg of harvesters?

Clearly you have never traveled or know much about business.
86 CabezaDura2 (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 06:01 pm Report abuse
Yeah right me know nothing

Pity that the fact is they DID export them to Kazakhstan so you are kinda paddling in the air YB….
87 Conqueror (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 06:38 pm Report abuse
@13 Curiously, UP here in Europe, cradle of civilisation, I haven't seen any signs of anyone wanting a trade deal with the poor people DOWN south. Actually, it's not mentioned. Rather have a proper deal with the United States, thanks.
@19 Perhaps you haven't noticed but admission to a “preference” regime is a matter for individual countries. Brazil had better be good. Did you notice the U.S. excluded Brazil all by itself?
@21 Yeah, but “trade preferences” are a WTO function.
@23 According to Europe, Latam states are the most untrustworthy in the world. It's where the nazis fled to. It will be many years before Latam is “trusted”. What must be seen is the end of the war crims, war crim attitudes, war crim policies, end of war crim children, grandchildren, great grandchildren. Call it 200 years. Not even halfway there yet! and don't bother with the “Not us” bit. You're guilty. Many years of penance ahead!
@29 Nope. You're still on probation. Remember that you're “different” to Stevie. Your crimes are more recent. You still have 168 years of probation. Assuming we don't count your criminal activities in attempting to evade your debts. In that case, your probation hasn't even started. And remember, punishment first, then probation.
@36 “Stand up to”? You mean “whine at”. At the moment, there are “conversations”. Just figure what will happen when all those countries you mention agree. When they all say “We're not standing for this!” By the way, don't you mean “Neutradol”?
@42 Not subsidising you anymore! Pay or you can't play.
@48 I gather Hitler had a similar problem. Just one nut. Another wannabe.
@55 Let us know when, if ever, you grow a prick. Before you boast, ask your “mummy” if hers is bigger!
@59 Your “schooling”? Haven't seen much sign of that. Or do you mean those comic strips the argie government issues?
@61 Don't be ridiculous. In your case, “history” is yesterday.
@64 Just don't want your poisons.
88 yankeeboy (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 07:11 pm Report abuse
86. You are a little dim right? Am I disputing the sale...nope. I SAID it was MOST LIKELY a political sale.
Have they sold any more?
Is it an ongoing relationship?
DId the RG harvester company open a dealership there?

Why the hick would someone buy 3MM 1x? It makes no sense.

No I am sorry you don't know much at all.
Next time think it through.
89 Tik Tok (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 07:31 pm Report abuse
Interesting story here www.abrazpe.org.br/index.php/noticias/835-europa-quer-fim-de-nove-zonas-francas-no-norte-inclusive-manaus
It suggests that EU wants to see the end of advantages given in Free Zones in places like Manaus in order to progress an accord. Chances of resolving that might easily be a bridge to far.
90 CabezaDura2 (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 07:49 pm Report abuse
88
Ohh boy you arrogant americunt...

I dont know about the ACTUAL ORDER of 2005 but this is what ocured the next year which was clearly political. El Gobierno de Kazajstán, por intermedio del Investment Found of Kazajstán (IFK) propone una recuperación del sector agropecuario y decide contratar una consultora externa para elaborar un programa de desarrollo agrícola – ganadero. Es así como es elegido el INTA para este cometido, considerando la experiencia Argentina en siembra directa, en ganadería extensiva y en producción de leche. En ese mismo momento también se presentó una propuesta de EE.UU., pero privó el prestigio Argentino por su eficiencia productiva y por ser un país altamente competitivo y sin subsidios en la producción agropecuaria. Además el INTA ha demostrado ser uno de los organismos, a nivel mundial, más eficiente en transferencia de tecnología. Esto se da principalmente porque tiene integrada la investigación y la transferencia de tecnología, en la misma institución. Estos son los argumentos que han puesto de manifiesto los funcionarios del IFK.

The Kazakhstanis preferred the Argentine tech and prices to those of the Americans due to the “productive efficiency, highly competitive and subsidize free production”... Obviously we are talking about 2006, not 2014, nobody would have predicted then the Ks would foock up so badly but that was not my original point.

www.todoagro.com.ar/noticias/nota.asp?nid=3076
91 MagnusMaster (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 07:55 pm Report abuse
@68 Chile has a much lower population than ours and they still have problems of our own. We have 40 million people to feed, you can't make them all work on agriculture (which requires almost no people nowadays) or services. With free trade we would have over 50% poverty. Even if the economy grows there aren't going to be nearly enough jobs for everyone.
Sorry but I don't see free trade working in Argentina. We can't survive selling raw products alone, and with free trade we would be even more dependent on soy than now.
92 yankeeboy (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 08:00 pm Report abuse
Again you are missing my point:
Have they sold any since?
Is it an ongoing relationship?
Did the RG harvester company open a dealership there?

If not this was merely a political buy. My guess is the same thing happened In Kazakhstan, Argentina bought 3Mm worth of some crap they were selling. So face was saved.

How old are you?
93 CabezaDura2 (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 08:07 pm Report abuse
Of course not you retard this was in 2006, fool dont you read??
Of course, then came the 35% retention levels in 2007, the farm crisis in 2008 so the local markets were destroyed, mass inflation, market interventions, import restrictions, etc. You cant compare the situation in 2005/2006 and the prospects that existed then as compared to the ones now. Does any of that really matter when our delegation beated yours in Kazajhstan ??
94 yankeeboy (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 08:24 pm Report abuse
So are you blaming “the man” for keeping you down?

How old are you?
95 CabezaDura2 (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 08:34 pm Report abuse
4 years old... wtf do you care how old i am ??

The only thing I care and now is that our boys in the agro-industrial sector can do it, despite your “trade expirience”. Fact is fact.
96 Jack Bauer (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 09:36 pm Report abuse
Conq, yr #87, allow me to expand on Stevie's chrystal ball :
Hitler only has one ball = Stevie
Rommel has two but very small = Think
Himmler, is very similar = Neutrol 'ant eater' Observer
But poor old Goebbels has no balls at all = Voicey.
I think that describes the trolls pretty aptly.,
97 yankeeboy (#) Feb 11th, 2014 - 10:52 pm Report abuse
95. Facts are Facts too bad yours are out of date and wrong.

I am wondering how old you are because you post like a teenager who thinks they know a lot about something until someone points out they don't.
98 CabezaDura2 (#) Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:00 am
Comment removed by the editor.
99 yankeeboy (#) Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:54 am Report abuse
But you have not proven anything. Not one thing. I have refuted everything you have posted.
everything
So who's the retard?
look in the mirror buddy
100 CabezaDura2 (#) Feb 12th, 2014 - 01:48 am Report abuse
Yeah I have... im still a good looking lad, and very smart too
101 Anglotino (#) Feb 12th, 2014 - 02:25 am Report abuse
Oh Nostrils!

Here you go again! I know you won’t come back, but thank you for allowing me to post this.

“Look at Australia and how their economy is collapsing right now”
Collapsing? We’re growing, have low inflation and low unemployment. If we are collapsing, then Argentina is imploding!

“they thought mining was the answer”
Who thought? We don’t have a statist economy. No one chooses national champions or industries here. The market decided that there was money to be made in mining and there was and still is. The mining boom isn’t over, just the construction boom is. Now the mines are producing.

As with most people who have an extremely shallow understanding of Australia, you somehow assume that mining is the largest sector.

Read this article, mining only accounts for 2.4% of our employment!!!!!

2.4%

That’s less than a third of our manufacturing industry. We employ more people in agricultural jobs!

www.theage.com.au/business/weve-jobs-enough-for-the-clever-in-healthcare-and-finance-20140211-32g0x.html

“meanwhile they were losing all other economic sectors due to the overvalued currency”
We are losing ALL others? Such as? Oh you must mean the loss of manufacturing jobs. Yes we have been losing those for 30 years. And it has dropped by 155,000 in THIRTY YEARS!

Construction added 572,000 jobs in that time!

We would love our currency to soften a little but it refuses to budge very far. But no balance of payments crisis if it does.

“Now as their media has well put it, they are well on the fast lane to recession, and a VERY long one at that”
Really? Who said that? I haven’t heard talk of a recession for Australia. But after 22 years of uninterrupted growth (one of the few countries in the world to perform this feat), we will have to have a recession eventually.

But it won't be an economic train wreck like Argentina is currently heading for.
102 A_neuTroll_Observer (#) Feb 12th, 2014 - 03:07 am Report abuse
AUSTRALIA: ROAD TO RECESSION

“The end of car manufacturing in Australia - confirmed with Toyota's announcement that it would shut local production in 2017, taking thousands of jobs with it - could tip Victoria and South Australia into recession, industry experts and economists have warned.”

www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/road-to-recession-end-of-car-industry-may-cost-50000-jobs-20140210-32d3g.html

'‘‘This is the collapse of an entire industry, not just Ford, Toyota and General Motors Holden,’’ Professor Spoehr said.

‘‘Those companies are the tip of the automotive industry – underneath them is a massive components industry and thousands of other suppliers’’ such as transport, business services and advertising.

“It starts to amount to thousands and thousands of jobs.

”With Holden alone we were looking at 50,000 jobs . . . [now] you are looking at hundreds of thousands.

That's ON TOP of tens of thousands of jobs lost in tourism, thousands lost in student-exchange industry, and both of those taking jobs in aviation, plus thousands of jobs lost in other areas.

Construction? Wait till the bubble collapses...

You are in for rough rough times.
103 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 12th, 2014 - 06:22 am Report abuse
101 Anglotino

I don't suppose he understands diversified economies, or that once the mines are played out, other sectors that have been invested in and developed earlier, will supplant them in the lead role.

Its really quite laughable, I don't know why you bother arguing with him. :-)
104 Stevie (#) Feb 12th, 2014 - 06:24 am Report abuse
The funny part is that Toyota, the last car producer to leave Australia, blames the FTA's as one major reason as why they leave. Seems the FTA with Thailand was a killer... Statist economy indeed. The people looks while the politicians borrow...
105 Escoses Doido (#) Feb 12th, 2014 - 08:41 am Report abuse
@102,
Hi tink/voicie, when you comming over to BR for a visit?
106 Anglotino (#) Feb 12th, 2014 - 10:25 am Report abuse
@Nostrils

Thank you for proving my point about you!

You said:
“Look at Australia and how their economy is collapsing right... Now as their media has well put it, they are well on the fast lane to recession, and a VERY long one at that.”
I said:
“Really? Who said that? I haven’t heard talk of a recession for Australia.”
You said:
“...could tip Victoria and South Australia into recession”

A recession in Vic or SA doesn't mean Australia is in recession.

5.8% unemployment. How will we ever survive? Especially when that bubble finally bursts. What's the bet your bubble bursts first?

@Troy

Yes it is true they don't understand diversified economies. But they keep giving me this platform so I gladly step up.

@Stevie

There is no single reason on why Toyota is pulling out. If you believe an FTA is to blame, then perhaps it is. And Ford's reason? And Holden's reason? What was Mitsubishi's reason?

The simple fact is that Australia is not a low cost manufacturing country. Why are we even trying to compete with Thailand in manufacturing cars? Australian made cars are too expensive and not what people want to buy.

What are the politicians borrowing? Our government debt is lower than Uruguay's, Brazil's, Argentina's and Brazil's.

What I do know is that the governments have wasted A$30 billion dollars in the past 20 years on an industry that was better let go. Finally we have a government who is willing to make the hard decisions. With a federal budget nearly A$400 billion per annum (more than the GDP of Argentina), I can think of more important things for that money than subsidies to private companies. Infrastructure for one.

The fact is that these closures have had no effect whatsoever on economic sentiment, government popularity or the currency is testament to the depth of our economy.
107 Stevie (#) Feb 12th, 2014 - 10:43 am Report abuse
www.australiandebtclock.com.au

4.7 Trillions in debt.

I know, it's of the healthy sort. Besides, most of it Monkeymagic loaned.
He did the same with the UK...

You'll have at least 100k people dependent on the Aussie car industry and much, much more people working in branches that depends indirectly.

I know, it's a good sign of FTA's doing wonder... Why protect local production?
108 yankeeboy (#) Feb 12th, 2014 - 11:07 am Report abuse
FYI my bet the car companies will pull out of Argentina in short order. Which for Argentina is their 2nd largest source of U$.
and their only real industry
That will put the final stake in their heart.
109 ChrisR (#) Feb 12th, 2014 - 11:11 am Report abuse
@ 107 “Free energy” Stevie
“Why protect local production?”

Well, of course you should NOT “protect” local production. It’s a no brainer!

If you do all you end up with is another Argentina and to some extents Brazil. Unable to compete on the international markets because of “protection” of the unions against the nasty, bad, businessmen (by your attitude) by the government; laden down with taxes needed to fund the bloated government that “protects” the “workers” it goes on and on in an ever downward spiral.

The present government in Uruguay is an example. Imports that have no competition from industry (because there is so LITTLE industry) are still enormously expensive. Why? It cannot be to protect local production: ah, it’s to pad the coffers of the government at the expense of its citizens, well the ones who live here, like me.

Only by standing on their own two feet and taking responsibility for themselves will the workers of any country advance in financial security. If businessmen act illegally they should be punished, no doubt about that. But so should the unions for stopping work just to pressurise the government to give them a big rise before the new government takes over the shit heap that is laughingly called the economy.

But that is heresy to someone who lives in an affluent country and earns USD 150 + a year and pays nothing into Uruguay, isn’t it?
110 Anglotino (#) Feb 12th, 2014 - 11:16 am Report abuse
Oh no Stevie so much debt

And we don't have a single asset anywhere. Whatever shall we do.

Thankfully we have a new government. The last time they were in power they actually paid off all the left Labour government's debt. Alas they shall have to do the same again.

I hope they can do it. You know, considering we don't have a single asset and no income whatsoever.

Wow 100,000 people dependent on the car industry. The figure grows bigger every day.

However shall we cope when that raises the unemployment by just 0.8% 6.6% is STILL lower than Argentina's and about the same as Uruguay's.

“Why protect local production?”

Indeed. If we can't compete then why would we? Should we be making shoes as well? We can't seem to find anyone poor enough to work for those wages.

But our FTAs must be doing something right considering how high our standard of living is in Australia.
111 Stevie (#) Feb 12th, 2014 - 11:25 am Report abuse
You think all assets will be sold to pay the debt?
I'm not convinced...

As long as your workforce charges what they do, NO industry will be rentavle compared to Asian industry. An exodus of companies is the result, just line in Europe.

But that's good... Well, at least it's a non-issue for a uni student that never worked in his life.

I bet it's a non-issue for scuba divers as well...
112 yankeeboy (#) Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:03 pm Report abuse
Stevie, Your lack of knowledge about macro economics is frightening and hilarious at the same time.
Are you really dumb or just trying to bother people?
113 Anglotino (#) Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:10 pm Report abuse
Oh Stevie is that it?

Of course we shouldn't sell all assets to pay debt. That would be akin to Argentina using its currency reserves to pay debt. But you continue to highlight debt without taking anything else into consideration.

That's just plain ignorant.

I love this quote about Toyota:

“The reality is that we don't know what new jobs will be created over the next several years – we never have known, but they've come anyway.
The Doomsday forecasters tend to assume that everything else will remain exactly the same, when it does not.”

www.smh.com.au/business/comment-and-analysis/doomsday-forecasts-and-cheaper-cars-realitychecking-toyotas-exit-20140211-32fcm.html#ixzz2t6q2J8uo

People will lose their jobs and most will find new ones. It is impossible that 100% of those that lose their jobs will remain unemployed.

This quote is even better:
“I've been responding to people's fears about the decline in manufacturing for almost as long as I've been a journalist because manufacturing's share of total employment began declining well before I joined Fairfax in 1974.
The truth is the industrial structure of our economy has been changing slowly but continuously since the First Fleet. A lot of angst has been generated over that time but the fact remains we're infinitely more prosperous today than we were then - with a much higher proportion of the population in the paid workforce.
The changing mix of industries is actually a primary cause of our greater affluence. Countries that try to prevent their industry structure changing are the ones that stop getting richer.”

www.smh.com.au/comment/toyota-is-leaving-no-problem-20140211-32fto.html#ixzz2t6qWB4KX

I repeat:
“Countries that try to prevent their industry structure changing are the ones that stop getting richer.”

We know this as a proven fact here. For 20 years the Commonwealth has tried to prevent the demise of the auto industry

And it FAILED abysmally.
114 Stevie (#) Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:19 pm Report abuse
Seems you need to ban mfg altogether then...

The world is in awe, Abbott...
115 Anglotino (#) Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:31 pm Report abuse
Ban?

I've told you more than once: STOP listening to the voices in your head. Who said anything about banning manufacturing?

If companies want to manufacture in Australia then they are free too. Doesn't mean we should subsidise them.

I live how predictable your posts become Stevie. Nigh nigh.
116 Stevie (#) Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:40 pm Report abuse
I think you should tell your countrymen (those that actualæy make a living on working, especially those involved in the car industry) that this actually is a good thing...

:)
117 yankeeboy (#) Feb 12th, 2014 - 01:28 pm Report abuse
116.Nobody is worried about Australia collapsing.
Nobody
Give up the crazy ranting you're just bothering people
118 Stevie (#) Feb 12th, 2014 - 02:33 pm Report abuse
See what we mean when we talk about you?
119 Jack Bauer (#) Feb 12th, 2014 - 05:15 pm Report abuse
@118, nobody sees what you mean...you don't have the knowledge to discuss anything constructive, and you resort to silly remarks when you realize you've lost , OR, you simply don't reply... which is probably good.
120 Anglotino (#) Feb 13th, 2014 - 12:33 am Report abuse
Actually yankeeboy is right, no one is worried about Australia collapsing.

No worries about an economic collapse.
No worries about a military coup.

The same can't be said about Argentina who has experienced both those more than once.
121 Stevie (#) Feb 13th, 2014 - 08:00 am Report abuse
Nobody cares?
122 Anglotino (#) Feb 13th, 2014 - 09:49 am Report abuse
No I said “no one is worried”!

Wow those voices in your head just get louder and louder.
123 Stevie (#) Feb 13th, 2014 - 11:37 am Report abuse
And I'm just stating nobody cares....
124 yankeeboy (#) Feb 13th, 2014 - 12:48 pm Report abuse
123. Except you are the one who started bringing up Australia.
dufus
125 Stevie (#) Feb 13th, 2014 - 09:31 pm Report abuse
I never said Australia was collapsing, yanqui. Those matters are yours to predict.

We still don't care...
126 Jack Bauer (#) Feb 14th, 2014 - 09:35 pm Report abuse
@125,,,for ONCE you are right....it was your idiotic buddy, the Newtroll Numbnuts, @71, who brought Australia into the discussion ..with Toyota..
127 Anglotino (#) Feb 16th, 2014 - 09:49 am Report abuse
Nostrils bought up Australia in a vain attempt to deflect with whataboutism.

Stevie ran with it, but even he can't say Australia is collapsing

Collapsing economy is a concept firmly entrenched with regards to Venezuela and Argentina, not as Stevie says, Australia.
128 Stevie (#) Feb 16th, 2014 - 09:21 pm Report abuse
Of course, entire industries leaving a country is a major indicator that things are running smoothly...
129 Jack Bauer (#) Feb 16th, 2014 - 10:39 pm Report abuse
@128, if you want to talk about companies leaving a country, just look at your ”friendly' neighbour.... many companies have abandoned Argentina over the years...either due to constant internal crises or because the government has created an extremely hostile business environment , making it unprofitable to stay on ...but that shouldn't be a problem, as according to CFK, it's their presence that has caused the downfall of the Argentine economy.
130 Tarquin Fin (#) Feb 17th, 2014 - 12:22 am Report abuse
129
Not only have foreign companies left the country. Successfully running a restaurant in Arg. -even if you are a local- implies that you have to pay 50% of the salaries under the counter if you don't want to go out of business in 6 months. That is the effect of the so called “inclusion policies” from the half a$$ed bleeding hearts in power.
131 Stevie (#) Feb 17th, 2014 - 12:48 am Report abuse
@129
I was talking entire industries, not random companies...
132 ChrisR (#) Feb 17th, 2014 - 11:42 am Report abuse
Well folks, including “Free energy” Stevie, I wish Uruguay had the industrial problems, etc. that Australia has!

Much lower taxes than in Uruguay, no old commie bastard who “rules” them.

Just a bit hot in South Australia, that’s all.

What’s not to like?
133 Anglotino (#) Feb 17th, 2014 - 07:18 pm Report abuse
“Of course, entire industries leaving a country is a major indicator that things are running smoothly...”

Agreed. Our economy has advanced so much we have effectively priced ourselves out of an industry. That's what getting rich and developed does.

It's called labour arbitrage. Look it up and educate yourself. Building a car doesn't take an educated worker. It isn't rocket science. It is just putting together pieces and welding or bolting them. Anyone can do that and for a much lower rate than A$50,000 per year.

As I highlighted in the article above:

”The changing mix of industries is actually a primary cause of our greater affluence. Countries that try to prevent their industry structure changing are the ones that stop getting richer.”

The proof will be in the pudding. Lucky we have a centre-right government in power for the foreseeable future to help manage this adjustment.

The fact is that this is hardly news in Australia any longer because the industry is iconic but most people see the logic in ceasing subsidies and can live with the consequences.
134 Jack Bauer (#) Feb 17th, 2014 - 09:59 pm Report abuse
@131, “I was talking entire industries, not random companies...”
Companies, OR “entire industries” as you put it, can leave for different reasons......if entire industries leave a country, it seems to me that it is probably more due to specific characteristics of that particular segment , than to the economy as a whole, going bust, which would cause random companies of VARIOUS, or of ALL segments to get the hell out....as in the case of Argentina. Companies can leave, but if others, not necessarily of the same segment, don't come to replace them, re-creating jobs, that's when you're in the s**t.

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