MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Uruguay and Brazil prepared to a 'two-speed' Mercosur/EU trade negotiation
Uruguay and Brazil could be prepared to go ahead with a 'two speed' trade negotiations between Mercosur and the European Union if the Argentine tariff proposal is not as ambitious as that from the rest of its members, according to Uruguayan diplomatic sources. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesTime for CFK to dump Timerman. Serves him right for doing everything he's told to. His old man must be turning in his grave.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Then it'll be time for the Argentines to dump CFK and all Peronists. Don't think they're clever enough, though.
The EU delay!
Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Bahahahahaha
How long has this farce being going on now?
Argentinean politicians operate in a bubble and when it pops the sound will be heard around the world.
These artificial trading blocs are a drag on the World Economy. Nation states should be allowed to make their own trade relationships and not be hindered by the likes of France and Argyland.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Be serious
Feb 10th, 2014 - 05:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do you realise what you just said made sense?
We need to leave Argentina and Venezuela out and leave them to their own communist ideas to hang themselves ”There is no education at the second kick of the mule”
Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Brazil and Uruguay on their own? Oh yeah.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 10:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0We will see wht TMBOA does about that!
The “two-speed negotiations”, an elegant euphemism to say “Argentina can go to hell”.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0José
Feb 10th, 2014 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's more a sign of respect for eachother trading preferences. All in line with what was decided in the Celec reunion in Habana.
You lot ever read the news? The proper ones?
“Mercosur” needs to bear in mind that the EU commonly imposes conditions unconnected with trade. Might find that they would be told to treat the Falkland Islands in accordance with international law and the UN Charter. No more complying with the diktats of the local nazi state. Falkland Islanders are citizens of the European Union. Might be a mistake attacking citizens of the EU. Just imagine being told they HAVE to trade with the Falkland Islands!
Feb 10th, 2014 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody wants an trade agreement with Argentina or Venezuela. They are both corrupt governments with no respect for rule of law, private property rights or contract law.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Brazil, Paraguay and Uruguay will have to negotiate outside of the constraints of MS. Soon enough MS will be dead.
It is just a matter of time.
Everything dies yanqui.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's always a matter of time...
Your prophecies are getting weak.
11. Well, this can roll out 2 ways BPU will go at it along which is VERBOTEN by their MS agreement, so either it will have to be ignored or they'll have to leave.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am just not sure which will happen so I can't give you a roll out.
But it will be sooner rather than later
Brazil is DESPERATE for an agreement with the EU. They are the ones driving this train.
Their balance of trade has already turned and will probably look much worse this 1st quarter since they've lost the EU trade preferences.
If we look at where the noses are pointing, I'd say the EU wants this deal more than Brasil... Or should I say access to the market?
Feb 10th, 2014 - 02:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie, When did all of this start revving up? WHEN BRAZIL FOUND OUT IT WAS LOSING ITS TRADE PREFERENCES. Nothing has happened on the EU side, their import rates to Brazil have not changed nor are they changing in the future. The only variable that changed, and let me repeat this for you, BRAZIL LOST EU TRADE PREFERENCES begining Jan 2014.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you understand why BRAZIL IS DESPERATE NOW?
I really don't think I can be more clear.
Yr #8 Stevie, “”It's more a sign of respect for eachother trading preferences. All in line with what was decided in the Celec reunion in Habana.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You lot ever read the news? The proper ones?“”
A sign of respect ??? CELAC ?? Oh sure, let's respect ourselves until we're all in the crapper with CFK...
And the 'news' ? and which would the “proper ones” be ?? Do tell us, pleeeease......
The EU gives trade preferences to developing nations. This must mean.... Brasil is doing something right, no?
Feb 10th, 2014 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0See? Just look at where the noses are pointing...
;)
“I'd say the EU wants this deal more than Brasil... Or should I say access to the market?”
Feb 10th, 2014 - 02:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0EU is Germany. Its Germany that wants this deal to have more close relationship with Brazil. The Germans don't care about the French and the, who lose out, but care about them self because the nation with the most German manufacturing companies ouside Germany is Brazil. The German business club or whatever you want to call them, their close relationship with Brazil, mainly with Sao Paulo state, FIESP (Sao Paulo Industrial federation and today with other state industrial clubs or whatever you want to call them) goes way back and was “specially” strengthen before and begin ww2 ( one major example is IG Farben).
16. Brazil could quickly turn back to a “developing” nation if these idiotic Marxists are forced out of power soon.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Great, then they get the trade preference back!
Feb 10th, 2014 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Win-win!
19. Once the lose them they'll not return anytime soon. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE DESPERATE.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you really an idiot or just playing one for attention?
Desperate for what? Being a developed nation in the eyes of the EU and as such not needing any preferences, or the trade preference itself?
Feb 10th, 2014 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They'll get one or the other either way, yanqui...
You are desperate.
;)
Desperate to come to an agreement on tariffs. Most “developed” nations have trade agreement with the EU. Brazil has nothing so they are paying much higher rates than they were in Dec 2013. They can see the exports dropping significantly. This doesn't effect the EU in the slightest only Brazil.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You don't understand how things work in the real world do you?
I'm sure Merkel disagrees with you, have you seen the amount Brasil imports from Germany?
Feb 10th, 2014 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fact is, Brasil would be better of with an FTA with Germany and the Netherlands only.
The EU is a matter of time anyway...
Just ask the... EUians...
You have no idea what you are talking about. It is like trying to argue the sky is red.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 03:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Go bother someone else.
Care to comment on the 600 thefts in Palermo in the last 90 days? Seems like BA is turning into Caracas. Another lovely Marxist city.
Mass shootings USA up 300%, in four years!
Feb 10th, 2014 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2014/01/15/expert-mass-shootings-on-the-rise/
Just another NEUTROLL OBSERVATION
No, why would I want to comment on that?
Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My crystal ball shows yet another shoutout in the USA. Seems USA is turning into... something rather particular indeed. Don't bother commenting, I know ;)
5 a year to 15 a year IN THE WHOLE USA oh gosh I am so worried.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Silly retards learn to read a graph.
Chances are you can't wald in what is used to be considered a decent part of BA without getting mugged. Totally different.
@16...Brazil has at least realized that it DOES need Europe ; also needs the USA, Japan, China, etc, although they like to play it down to the public, to try to give the impression that they are the ones dictating the rules ...it needs trade partners who will buy, and these, while prepared to discuss special tariff agreements, will demand reciprocity, to avoid widening the trade imbalances...Brazil , and Argentina, have got to realize trade is a two-way street....something the latter refuses to acknowledge...that's why, those who can, should leave CFK to her own fate.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has to realize its a two way street????
Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0F.U. You European cheaters have had one-way trade in your favor for 50 years. Times up.
That IS true, what Nostril says, Jack...
Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How can that be true if the EU hasn't even been around 50 years?
Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You two are retarded.
Nobody said the EU, he said Europeans.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your ignorance is affecting our retardation...
and by Europeans he means what exactly?
Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please provide some links too.
Because you are both talking utter nonsense.
Someone just got PWNED.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just another NEUTROLL OBSERVATION.
And by Europeans YOU mean what exactly?
Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please provide some links to back it up.
FYI Argentina has the largest amount of cases at the ICSID and WTO.
Filthy scumbag scofflaws
That's the reputation.
Because Argentina is the only nation in the history of the planet to stand up to the USA and the EU and China, and Brazil, and others at the same time to point out they do exactly what they accuse Argentina of doing.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0NEUTROLL OBSERVATION
That's not true either...
Feb 10th, 2014 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And by Europeans YOU mean what exactly?
Please provide some links to back it up.
29 A_neuTroll_Observer
Feb 10th, 2014 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“F.U. You European cheaters”
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!!!!!!!!!
As apposed to what???
You South American cheaters??? ( and thieves and liars and back stabbers )
Brazil and Uruguay understand the critical importance of connecting their economies to EU. The US and Canada are already negotiating a free-trade agreement with EU, Mexico and other countries already have fta with EU.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mercosur already looks like Africa when it comes to trade with the world, it´s all almost exclusively about primary products, raw materials, oil, crops and the like, it´s not about manufactured, higher-valued good.
A EU-Mercosur agreement will open the door to small and big manufacturers in South America, they will be able to send their products at favorable import quotas and tariffs free.
How hard is this to understand for those governing Argentina right now?
39 JoseAngeldeMonterrey
Feb 10th, 2014 - 06:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“How hard is this to understand for those governing Argentina right now?”
Because it's common sense that's why!!!
Do you realize what a powerhouse argentina COULD / SHOULD be in the right hands?
It's being held back by all the idiots that get voted into office, strip the country bare and then make off with the money.
@29 , Hi there New Troll, Wet Nostrils or whatever yr f*****g name is....just fyi, here in Brazil there's this product to eliminate termites...it's called Neutrol....so, from now on, I'm gonna callyou “ant-eater”....
Feb 10th, 2014 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“”Argentina has to realize its a two way street???? F.U. You European cheaters have had one-way trade in your favor for 50 years. Times up“”.
Before you start trying to defend your sorry ass, have you ever stopped to think , IF it's true, why you sell SFA to Europe ?? but that doesn't really matter, does it ? because what IS important, is that it's not your fault.....of course not....But, whether you like it or not, to have a successful, long-term commercial relationship with any country, it's got to be good for both sides...thus, two-way street.
And Stevie @30...you lost a good opportunity to keep quiet. Better luck next time.
You mean it has been two-way until now? That's a ridiculous claim, it's been more of a highway-private road....
Feb 10th, 2014 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie @42..I did NOT say it had been 'two-way until now'.....I gave you the benefit of the doubt because I don't have the stats regarding Argentina's foreign trade over the last few decades...what I DID say, and you didn't understand, is that a healthy foreign trade usually requires it to be 'two-way'...something that 'anteater hasn't grasped yet, either.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 043. Stevie is just using Tupa talking points. He can't back it up either so don't be too worried about it.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Because Argentina is the only nation in the history of the planet to stand up to the USA and the EU and China, and Brazil, and others at the same time ”
Feb 10th, 2014 - 08:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As how is that working out for you right now Nostrils?
And you are not the first. There are a few other failed states such as Iran and North Korea that have already done that. How is it working out for them?
Behold your future.
Jack
Feb 10th, 2014 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody said otherwise. You were made aware that what you say is healthy, hasn't been a fact the last 50 years.
And that has stopped.
Nothing more.
No need to wet your pants in emotions...
Stevie, back up what you are saying with some facts or SFU.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My crystal ball.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 08:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't be obtuse.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm asking you to back up your claim that the “europeans” have had a “1 way street” for 50 years in regards to trade.
What? You upset my crystal ball is better than yours?
Feb 10th, 2014 - 08:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Normal.
Balls made of crystal is just not the same, is it?
Europe virtually stopped importing agricultural goods from SA after the WWII. Since then, the tune has been non-taxed technology vs taxed agricultural goods.
Look for your balls yet again and have a closer look...
50 Stevie
Feb 10th, 2014 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is that it? That's all you got??? Let me just read it again....... Yup, Pretty sure friend “Yankeeboy” asked you to:-
“ back up your claim that the “europeans” have had a “1 way street” for 50 years in regards to trade”
and that's the best you can do?? Well, I stand in awe of your debating skills. The way that you put your point across.....it's so..........it's so....... Lame.
Hush now little one, the adults are talking.
Those sound like opinions to me, brainwashed retarded opinions. Try posting facts with actual links and I think you'll be quite surprised at what you find.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What? You lot have countless pages of drivel and you ask sources of me.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Try the school.
Any education center.
You want me toneducate you too?
Try google.
Do as usual, go for wiki...
What I really want to know is, why is it that ol' “Laughing boy Timerman” always, ALWAYS looks like he is in need of a good, stiff s**t?
Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The guy looks like he is just about to leave the room and “curl one out”
What is it? The job? His diet? or stress?
“The adults are talking”
Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...
...
Bahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
Stevie, read yr #42 again, “You mean it has been two-way until now? That's a ridiculous claim”...and then yr #46 “Nobody said otherwise.”....YOU replied it was a “ridiculous” claim.....want to “reThink” your post ??
Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yr final remark about “emotions” ?....childish, Trollish...
It HASN'T been two-ways. To say anything else is indeed ridiculous.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It SHOULD be two-ways. Nobody stated anything to the contrary.
Is that setup easier for you?
52 yankeeboy
Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you look at his post at 53 You will see that his main reference material comes from what he has been taught ( brainwashed ) at school and that other wonderful sepository of information, Wrongapedia.
No further questions your honour.
I can assure you my schooling is of a much higher quality than yours.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's obvious, you lot have problems with your own language...
Day in and day out Stevie makes himself into a bigger fool.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie, you may think you are educated and the smartest monkey in the zoo but alas you are still in the zoo.
yanqui
Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What you learnt in school, I learnt on my history classes...
@39 “A EU-Mercosur agreement will open the door to small and big manufacturers in South America, they will be able to send their products at favorable import quotas and tariffs free.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How hard is this to understand for those governing Argentina right now?”
They DO understand, that's why they are opposed to the EU deal. You see, Argentina doesn't want to import manufactured products from Europe, or any first-world country. Argentina wants to make as much manufactured products locally as possible, either for the local market or for export. It's called import subsitution. The reasoning is that with free trade, manufacturing countries will reap all the benefits while countries relying on raw products will be dirt poor.
If Argentina signs a FTA with the EU, the few manufacturers we already have will go bankrupt and wages will have to go down to be competitive. That's why free trade is regarded as a truly evil ideology by the Peronists, and by most Argentinians. Argentina isn't going to sign a FTA with anyone who might be a threat, no matter what Brazil does, at least until we can make competitve manufactured goods (that is, when hell freezes). Even if we sign a FTA it's not going to last for long.
Dear MagnusMaster:
Feb 11th, 2014 - 01:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do you really think we can produce better cell-phones, flat-TVs and air conditioners than chinese, south-asian or even brazilian factories?
Import substitution was a great idea for us back in the late 40's and early 50's ... Would you honestly assert that a blackberry or samsung cell phone is best assembled at “Tierra Del Fuego” phoney hi-tech centres?
I recently (May '13) bought a SAMSUNG “Tierra Del Fuego” assembled LED TV. Assembling the 4 screw stand for it to stand tall in my living room caused me to go to the nearest hardware shop to find new screws ... the ones that came in the pack did not fit. Hail to the no-value-added-nac&pop-industry!!!!!
@62
Feb 11th, 2014 - 03:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well put. And furthermore, even if we did sign a free trade, the USA and Europe would not allow agricultural products because every time they have made it clear those are not part of “free trade”.
To the Euros and NorthAms, only products they produce are to enjoy free trade. Those they do not produce are to have tariffs.
And they think they will fool us? They might have fooled the rest of the world, but they miscalculated here.
Snotty,
Feb 11th, 2014 - 05:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0“ They might have fooled the rest of the world, but they miscalculated here.”
It's a good thing they have you on their side, Snotty
In a decade the Avg Rg may not have the means to communicate with the outside world. They will be so far behind in technology that the only people that will be able to contact civilization will be the very wealthy.
Feb 11th, 2014 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0They've seen the last of our technology for a very very long time.
People seem to forget this was all tried before, import substitution, gads it was an utter failure, don't you know your own history?
Just one little example Argentina got color TV 25 yrs after we had it in the USA. Just imagine what it will be like in a decade. Things are moving a lot faster now.
Parts for electronics will become just as scarce as new electronics it will leave the middle to poor classes literally in the dark.
@63 I don't believe in import substitution but I don't believe that free trade is always good either. Yes, TdF is a joke. To be fair, I thought at first it was just a money grab by the government and nobody would even bother to put assembly plants there.
Feb 11th, 2014 - 02:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@66 Peronists don't see import substitution as a failure. They blame the 70s dictatorship and Menem for implementing neoliberal policies that destroyed the industry before it was ready. Peronists believe you need at least 50 years of uninterrupted import substitution for it to work. But I don't think Argentina will ever industrilize as long as our wealthy class wants quick, easy and safe profits from agriculture, real estate, speculation and corruption. Manufacturing is just too expensive, too risky and not profitable enough for them. And the poor would never want Chinese wages anyway.
67. Argentinians don't want to work or innovate. The market is too small for any company to mfg something solely for Argentina and you can't compete in the open market.
Feb 11th, 2014 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It will always end up expensive and crappy. Like your warmish refrigerators and washing machines that catch fire.
Looks to Chile, you have a free market right next door, they don't have as many natural resources as Argentina and they are kicking your as*.
Kicking our ass?
Feb 11th, 2014 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They don't produce anything worth getting just because it is “Chilean”. Oh yeah, kicking ass right!
69, Chile is moving UP the GDP by country scale while Argentina is moving DOWN.
Feb 11th, 2014 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes CLEARLY kicking your as*
Yeah, and when they have a devaluation (will happen eventually), it will all be erased in a heartbeat, 40 years of work, because they never actually began producing stuff people want “from Chile”.
Feb 11th, 2014 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Or what do you think they can go up and up without adding value to their products.
Look at Australia and how their economy is collapsing right now because they thought mining was the answer, and meanwhile they were losing all other economic sectors due to the overvalued currency. Now as their media has well put it, they are well on the fast lane to recession, and a VERY long one at that.
71. Recessions are merely a correction to overheating, economies need them now and again to right themselves.
Feb 11th, 2014 - 03:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you seriously think growth is a straight line?
Even with 200+ years of unprecedented growth the USA has had up and down years.
Chile has very good reserves and a wealth fund for the size of their economy and population. I an sure they can weather any storm.
BTW you don't have to manufacture to create wealth. Look at Norway,their wealth is based largely on gas and oil. They just manage it well.
You really have a very poor education.
Subsidized import substitution is not the answer. It is silly to pretend that we can beat the chinese at consumer electronics or home appliances. Even Brazil is light years ahead of what we can currently accomplish. Yet, Lady Cristina and its swarm of brainwashed militants keep on trying to convince us that those factories are top notch.
Feb 11th, 2014 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There are oh so many other opportunities to get a real industry. However realizing that goal takes serious effort and a lot of commitment.
73
Feb 11th, 2014 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The logical thing to do in these last years would have being from the decent agro industrial machinery which has a good demand in the local natural market you could expand to small tractors, truck's lorries, tools, equipment, etc and export those,.. I just don’t get this idea of sampling pieces that arrive in Bs As of phones and electronic hardware in Tierra del Fuego and redistributing them back towards the country. Insane
74. You can't compete with the USA and China on manufactured goods. In your whole history as a nation you've not ever made mass quality products at a fair price.
Feb 11th, 2014 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who in their right mind would buy a product from Argentina when they can get one from the USA that is cheaper and better?
Also nobody is going to make huge capital improvement in factories when nothing is reliable, not electricity, not gas, not taxes, not imports, not exporting, not free flow of money, not currency, not workforce. Can you see where I am going with this?
It will never happen.
In fact I bet the few large mfgs you have ( mainly car) will pack up and leave as soon as hyperinflation starts. There is no reason to stay there.
Stevie @57....To keep it short and simple ...now, please pay attention :
Feb 11th, 2014 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In my #41 I said basically, that trade to be successful, should be two-ways...
Yr reply @42.. “You mean it has been two-way until now? That's a ridiculous claim”;
My #43 “I did NOT say it had been 'two-way until now'.....I gave you the benefit of the doubt etc...”“
Yr#46 ”Nobody said otherwise.“”“
So, now you are going to deny that in yr #42 you didn't affirm I had said it WAS two-ways ?? ...”that's a ridiculous claim“....one I never made.
Then to top it off, yr #57... ”It HASN'T been two-ways. To say anything else is indeed ridiculous. It SHOULD be two-ways. Nobody stated anything to the contrary. Is that setup easier for you?“”
Thanks for explaining to me what I was telling you all along...
LOL when Im talking about the logical thing to do in the last years obviously I’m talking about a different perspective... In 2006 even Vassali was exporting harvesters to Khazajstan and Venezuela.
Feb 11th, 2014 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 077. Was that in trade for oil? That is the only way it makes sense. Unless the buyers are really stupid.
Feb 11th, 2014 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, in the last 30 years we've been able to sell steel, hydro turbines, satellite assemblies, some specialized electronic designs, bio technical and pharma products, a few nuclear reactors and I'm pretty sure there are some additional items that I can't recall at the moment.
Feb 11th, 2014 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Most of that wasn't in exchange for oil.
Khazajstan it seems paid with 3 million US$ in 2005 for 30 harvesters... Round that time I think the parity was 3,5 pesos per dollar. So to send all the way there it must mean Arg was competetive at the time
Feb 11th, 2014 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.iprofesional.com/notas/15753-Vassalli-Fabril-logra-exportar-cosechadoras-a-Kazajstn
I've been in sales all my life, believe me that there are a lot of stupid buyers out there.
Feb 11th, 2014 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would imagine this deal was done at a high gov't level and there was more exchanged than just the harvesters.
Borat ordered them...??
Feb 11th, 2014 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well what I can say is what I heard from a friend of mine whose son worked there in Firmat at Vassalli, round the same time they were exporting and doing well. The problem they had was the time it tacked building a single unit I can’t remember well but if it was long, a couple of months at least. They were developing and testing the axial-flow model at the time… Don’t know what ever happened to them.
I can almost guarantee that one of either of the Presidents or other high gov't officials were visiting and this was a show of faith in establishing some sort of trade or visa program.
Feb 11th, 2014 - 05:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is just too far out of Argentina's sphere of influence for them to sell anything to that country.
It makes no business sense.
Ok...How much did a US manufactured Massey Fergueson, John Deere, Case, New Holland axial-flow harvester cost in 2005??
Feb 11th, 2014 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Better question is, how did some Kazakh farm implement dealer find an Argentinian mfg of harvesters?
Feb 11th, 2014 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Clearly you have never traveled or know much about business.
Yeah right me know nothing
Feb 11th, 2014 - 06:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pity that the fact is they DID export them to Kazakhstan so you are kinda paddling in the air YB….
@13 Curiously, UP here in Europe, cradle of civilisation, I haven't seen any signs of anyone wanting a trade deal with the poor people DOWN south. Actually, it's not mentioned. Rather have a proper deal with the United States, thanks.
Feb 11th, 2014 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@19 Perhaps you haven't noticed but admission to a “preference” regime is a matter for individual countries. Brazil had better be good. Did you notice the U.S. excluded Brazil all by itself?
@21 Yeah, but “trade preferences” are a WTO function.
@23 According to Europe, Latam states are the most untrustworthy in the world. It's where the nazis fled to. It will be many years before Latam is “trusted”. What must be seen is the end of the war crims, war crim attitudes, war crim policies, end of war crim children, grandchildren, great grandchildren. Call it 200 years. Not even halfway there yet! and don't bother with the “Not us” bit. You're guilty. Many years of penance ahead!
@29 Nope. You're still on probation. Remember that you're “different” to Stevie. Your crimes are more recent. You still have 168 years of probation. Assuming we don't count your criminal activities in attempting to evade your debts. In that case, your probation hasn't even started. And remember, punishment first, then probation.
@36 “Stand up to”? You mean “whine at”. At the moment, there are “conversations”. Just figure what will happen when all those countries you mention agree. When they all say “We're not standing for this!” By the way, don't you mean “Neutradol”?
@42 Not subsidising you anymore! Pay or you can't play.
@48 I gather Hitler had a similar problem. Just one nut. Another wannabe.
@55 Let us know when, if ever, you grow a prick. Before you boast, ask your “mummy” if hers is bigger!
@59 Your “schooling”? Haven't seen much sign of that. Or do you mean those comic strips the argie government issues?
@61 Don't be ridiculous. In your case, “history” is yesterday.
@64 Just don't want your poisons.
86. You are a little dim right? Am I disputing the sale...nope. I SAID it was MOST LIKELY a political sale.
Feb 11th, 2014 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have they sold any more?
Is it an ongoing relationship?
DId the RG harvester company open a dealership there?
Why the hick would someone buy 3MM 1x? It makes no sense.
No I am sorry you don't know much at all.
Next time think it through.
Interesting story here http://www.abrazpe.org.br/index.php/noticias/835-europa-quer-fim-de-nove-zonas-francas-no-norte-inclusive-manaus
Feb 11th, 2014 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It suggests that EU wants to see the end of advantages given in Free Zones in places like Manaus in order to progress an accord. Chances of resolving that might easily be a bridge to far.
88
Feb 11th, 2014 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ohh boy you arrogant americunt...
I dont know about the ACTUAL ORDER of 2005 but this is what ocured the next year which was clearly political. El Gobierno de Kazajstán, por intermedio del Investment Found of Kazajstán (IFK) propone una recuperación del sector agropecuario y decide contratar una consultora externa para elaborar un programa de desarrollo agrícola – ganadero. Es así como es elegido el INTA para este cometido, considerando la experiencia Argentina en siembra directa, en ganadería extensiva y en producción de leche. En ese mismo momento también se presentó una propuesta de EE.UU., pero privó el prestigio Argentino por su eficiencia productiva y por ser un país altamente competitivo y sin subsidios en la producción agropecuaria. Además el INTA ha demostrado ser uno de los organismos, a nivel mundial, más eficiente en transferencia de tecnología. Esto se da principalmente porque tiene integrada la investigación y la transferencia de tecnología, en la misma institución. Estos son los argumentos que han puesto de manifiesto los funcionarios del IFK.
The Kazakhstanis preferred the Argentine tech and prices to those of the Americans due to the “productive efficiency, highly competitive and subsidize free production”... Obviously we are talking about 2006, not 2014, nobody would have predicted then the Ks would foock up so badly but that was not my original point.
http://www.todoagro.com.ar/noticias/nota.asp?nid=3076
@68 Chile has a much lower population than ours and they still have problems of our own. We have 40 million people to feed, you can't make them all work on agriculture (which requires almost no people nowadays) or services. With free trade we would have over 50% poverty. Even if the economy grows there aren't going to be nearly enough jobs for everyone.
Feb 11th, 2014 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry but I don't see free trade working in Argentina. We can't survive selling raw products alone, and with free trade we would be even more dependent on soy than now.
Again you are missing my point:
Feb 11th, 2014 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have they sold any since?
Is it an ongoing relationship?
Did the RG harvester company open a dealership there?
If not this was merely a political buy. My guess is the same thing happened In Kazakhstan, Argentina bought 3Mm worth of some crap they were selling. So face was saved.
How old are you?
Of course not you retard this was in 2006, fool dont you read??
Feb 11th, 2014 - 08:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course, then came the 35% retention levels in 2007, the farm crisis in 2008 so the local markets were destroyed, mass inflation, market interventions, import restrictions, etc. You cant compare the situation in 2005/2006 and the prospects that existed then as compared to the ones now. Does any of that really matter when our delegation beated yours in Kazajhstan ??
So are you blaming “the man” for keeping you down?
Feb 11th, 2014 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How old are you?
4 years old... wtf do you care how old i am ??
Feb 11th, 2014 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only thing I care and now is that our boys in the agro-industrial sector can do it, despite your “trade expirience”. Fact is fact.
Conq, yr #87, allow me to expand on Stevie's chrystal ball :
Feb 11th, 2014 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hitler only has one ball = Stevie
Rommel has two but very small = Think
Himmler, is very similar = Neutrol 'ant eater' Observer
But poor old Goebbels has no balls at all = Voicey.
I think that describes the trolls pretty aptly.,
95. Facts are Facts too bad yours are out of date and wrong.
Feb 11th, 2014 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am wondering how old you are because you post like a teenager who thinks they know a lot about something until someone points out they don't.
Comment removed by the editor.
Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0But you have not proven anything. Not one thing. I have refuted everything you have posted.
Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0everything
So who's the retard?
look in the mirror buddy
Yeah I have... im still a good looking lad, and very smart too
Feb 12th, 2014 - 01:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh Nostrils!
Feb 12th, 2014 - 02:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Here you go again! I know you won’t come back, but thank you for allowing me to post this.
“Look at Australia and how their economy is collapsing right now”
Collapsing? We’re growing, have low inflation and low unemployment. If we are collapsing, then Argentina is imploding!
“they thought mining was the answer”
Who thought? We don’t have a statist economy. No one chooses national champions or industries here. The market decided that there was money to be made in mining and there was and still is. The mining boom isn’t over, just the construction boom is. Now the mines are producing.
As with most people who have an extremely shallow understanding of Australia, you somehow assume that mining is the largest sector.
Read this article, mining only accounts for 2.4% of our employment!!!!!
2.4%
That’s less than a third of our manufacturing industry. We employ more people in agricultural jobs!
http://www.theage.com.au/business/weve-jobs-enough-for-the-clever-in-healthcare-and-finance-20140211-32g0x.html
“meanwhile they were losing all other economic sectors due to the overvalued currency”
We are losing ALL others? Such as? Oh you must mean the loss of manufacturing jobs. Yes we have been losing those for 30 years. And it has dropped by 155,000 in THIRTY YEARS!
Construction added 572,000 jobs in that time!
We would love our currency to soften a little but it refuses to budge very far. But no balance of payments crisis if it does.
“Now as their media has well put it, they are well on the fast lane to recession, and a VERY long one at that”
Really? Who said that? I haven’t heard talk of a recession for Australia. But after 22 years of uninterrupted growth (one of the few countries in the world to perform this feat), we will have to have a recession eventually.
But it won't be an economic train wreck like Argentina is currently heading for.
AUSTRALIA: ROAD TO RECESSION
Feb 12th, 2014 - 03:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The end of car manufacturing in Australia - confirmed with Toyota's announcement that it would shut local production in 2017, taking thousands of jobs with it - could tip Victoria and South Australia into recession, industry experts and economists have warned.”
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/road-to-recession-end-of-car-industry-may-cost-50000-jobs-20140210-32d3g.html
'‘‘This is the collapse of an entire industry, not just Ford, Toyota and General Motors Holden,’’ Professor Spoehr said.
‘‘Those companies are the tip of the automotive industry – underneath them is a massive components industry and thousands of other suppliers’’ such as transport, business services and advertising.
“It starts to amount to thousands and thousands of jobs.
”With Holden alone we were looking at 50,000 jobs . . . [now] you are looking at hundreds of thousands.
That's ON TOP of tens of thousands of jobs lost in tourism, thousands lost in student-exchange industry, and both of those taking jobs in aviation, plus thousands of jobs lost in other areas.
Construction? Wait till the bubble collapses...
You are in for rough rough times.
101 Anglotino
Feb 12th, 2014 - 06:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't suppose he understands diversified economies, or that once the mines are played out, other sectors that have been invested in and developed earlier, will supplant them in the lead role.
Its really quite laughable, I don't know why you bother arguing with him. :-)
The funny part is that Toyota, the last car producer to leave Australia, blames the FTA's as one major reason as why they leave. Seems the FTA with Thailand was a killer... Statist economy indeed. The people looks while the politicians borrow...
Feb 12th, 2014 - 06:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0@102,
Feb 12th, 2014 - 08:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hi tink/voicie, when you comming over to BR for a visit?
@Nostrils
Feb 12th, 2014 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for proving my point about you!
You said:
“Look at Australia and how their economy is collapsing right... Now as their media has well put it, they are well on the fast lane to recession, and a VERY long one at that.”
I said:
“Really? Who said that? I haven’t heard talk of a recession for Australia.”
You said:
“...could tip Victoria and South Australia into recession”
A recession in Vic or SA doesn't mean Australia is in recession.
5.8% unemployment. How will we ever survive? Especially when that bubble finally bursts. What's the bet your bubble bursts first?
@Troy
Yes it is true they don't understand diversified economies. But they keep giving me this platform so I gladly step up.
@Stevie
There is no single reason on why Toyota is pulling out. If you believe an FTA is to blame, then perhaps it is. And Ford's reason? And Holden's reason? What was Mitsubishi's reason?
The simple fact is that Australia is not a low cost manufacturing country. Why are we even trying to compete with Thailand in manufacturing cars? Australian made cars are too expensive and not what people want to buy.
What are the politicians borrowing? Our government debt is lower than Uruguay's, Brazil's, Argentina's and Brazil's.
What I do know is that the governments have wasted A$30 billion dollars in the past 20 years on an industry that was better let go. Finally we have a government who is willing to make the hard decisions. With a federal budget nearly A$400 billion per annum (more than the GDP of Argentina), I can think of more important things for that money than subsidies to private companies. Infrastructure for one.
The fact is that these closures have had no effect whatsoever on economic sentiment, government popularity or the currency is testament to the depth of our economy.
http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au
Feb 12th, 2014 - 10:43 am - Link - Report abuse 04.7 Trillions in debt.
I know, it's of the healthy sort. Besides, most of it Monkeymagic loaned.
He did the same with the UK...
You'll have at least 100k people dependent on the Aussie car industry and much, much more people working in branches that depends indirectly.
I know, it's a good sign of FTA's doing wonder... Why protect local production?
FYI my bet the car companies will pull out of Argentina in short order. Which for Argentina is their 2nd largest source of U$.
Feb 12th, 2014 - 11:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0and their only real industry
That will put the final stake in their heart.
@ 107 “Free energy” Stevie
Feb 12th, 2014 - 11:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Why protect local production?”
Well, of course you should NOT “protect” local production. It’s a no brainer!
If you do all you end up with is another Argentina and to some extents Brazil. Unable to compete on the international markets because of “protection” of the unions against the nasty, bad, businessmen (by your attitude) by the government; laden down with taxes needed to fund the bloated government that “protects” the “workers” it goes on and on in an ever downward spiral.
The present government in Uruguay is an example. Imports that have no competition from industry (because there is so LITTLE industry) are still enormously expensive. Why? It cannot be to protect local production: ah, it’s to pad the coffers of the government at the expense of its citizens, well the ones who live here, like me.
Only by standing on their own two feet and taking responsibility for themselves will the workers of any country advance in financial security. If businessmen act illegally they should be punished, no doubt about that. But so should the unions for stopping work just to pressurise the government to give them a big rise before the new government takes over the shit heap that is laughingly called the economy.
But that is heresy to someone who lives in an affluent country and earns USD 150 + a year and pays nothing into Uruguay, isn’t it?
Oh no Stevie so much debt
Feb 12th, 2014 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0And we don't have a single asset anywhere. Whatever shall we do.
Thankfully we have a new government. The last time they were in power they actually paid off all the left Labour government's debt. Alas they shall have to do the same again.
I hope they can do it. You know, considering we don't have a single asset and no income whatsoever.
Wow 100,000 people dependent on the car industry. The figure grows bigger every day.
However shall we cope when that raises the unemployment by just 0.8% 6.6% is STILL lower than Argentina's and about the same as Uruguay's.
“Why protect local production?”
Indeed. If we can't compete then why would we? Should we be making shoes as well? We can't seem to find anyone poor enough to work for those wages.
But our FTAs must be doing something right considering how high our standard of living is in Australia.
You think all assets will be sold to pay the debt?
Feb 12th, 2014 - 11:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not convinced...
As long as your workforce charges what they do, NO industry will be rentavle compared to Asian industry. An exodus of companies is the result, just line in Europe.
But that's good... Well, at least it's a non-issue for a uni student that never worked in his life.
I bet it's a non-issue for scuba divers as well...
Stevie, Your lack of knowledge about macro economics is frightening and hilarious at the same time.
Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you really dumb or just trying to bother people?
Oh Stevie is that it?
Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course we shouldn't sell all assets to pay debt. That would be akin to Argentina using its currency reserves to pay debt. But you continue to highlight debt without taking anything else into consideration.
That's just plain ignorant.
I love this quote about Toyota:
“The reality is that we don't know what new jobs will be created over the next several years – we never have known, but they've come anyway.
The Doomsday forecasters tend to assume that everything else will remain exactly the same, when it does not.”
http://www.smh.com.au/business/comment-and-analysis/doomsday-forecasts-and-cheaper-cars-realitychecking-toyotas-exit-20140211-32fcm.html#ixzz2t6q2J8uo
People will lose their jobs and most will find new ones. It is impossible that 100% of those that lose their jobs will remain unemployed.
This quote is even better:
“I've been responding to people's fears about the decline in manufacturing for almost as long as I've been a journalist because manufacturing's share of total employment began declining well before I joined Fairfax in 1974.
The truth is the industrial structure of our economy has been changing slowly but continuously since the First Fleet. A lot of angst has been generated over that time but the fact remains we're infinitely more prosperous today than we were then - with a much higher proportion of the population in the paid workforce.
The changing mix of industries is actually a primary cause of our greater affluence. Countries that try to prevent their industry structure changing are the ones that stop getting richer.”
http://www.smh.com.au/business/comment-and-analysis/doomsday-forecasts-and-cheaper-cars-realitychecking-toyotas-exit-20140211-32fcm.html#ixzz2t6q2J8uo
I repeat:
“Countries that try to prevent their industry structure changing are the ones that stop getting richer.”
We know this as a proven fact here. For 20 years the Commonwealth has tried to prevent the demise of the auto industry
And it FAILED abysmally.
Seems you need to ban mfg altogether then...
Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The world is in awe, Abbott...
Ban?
Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I've told you more than once: STOP listening to the voices in your head. Who said anything about banning manufacturing?
If companies want to manufacture in Australia then they are free too. Doesn't mean we should subsidise them.
I live how predictable your posts become Stevie. Nigh nigh.
I think you should tell your countrymen (those that actualæy make a living on working, especially those involved in the car industry) that this actually is a good thing...
Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0:)
116.Nobody is worried about Australia collapsing.
Feb 12th, 2014 - 01:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody
Give up the crazy ranting you're just bothering people
See what we mean when we talk about you?
Feb 12th, 2014 - 02:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@118, nobody sees what you mean...you don't have the knowledge to discuss anything constructive, and you resort to silly remarks when you realize you've lost , OR, you simply don't reply... which is probably good.
Feb 12th, 2014 - 05:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Actually yankeeboy is right, no one is worried about Australia collapsing.
Feb 13th, 2014 - 12:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0No worries about an economic collapse.
No worries about a military coup.
The same can't be said about Argentina who has experienced both those more than once.
Nobody cares?
Feb 13th, 2014 - 08:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0No I said “no one is worried”!
Feb 13th, 2014 - 09:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Wow those voices in your head just get louder and louder.
And I'm just stating nobody cares....
Feb 13th, 2014 - 11:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0123. Except you are the one who started bringing up Australia.
Feb 13th, 2014 - 12:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0dufus
I never said Australia was collapsing, yanqui. Those matters are yours to predict.
Feb 13th, 2014 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We still don't care...
@125,,,for ONCE you are right....it was your idiotic buddy, the Newtroll Numbnuts, @71, who brought Australia into the discussion ..with Toyota..
Feb 14th, 2014 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nostrils bought up Australia in a vain attempt to deflect with whataboutism.
Feb 16th, 2014 - 09:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie ran with it, but even he can't say Australia is collapsing
Collapsing economy is a concept firmly entrenched with regards to Venezuela and Argentina, not as Stevie says, Australia.
Of course, entire industries leaving a country is a major indicator that things are running smoothly...
Feb 16th, 2014 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@128, if you want to talk about companies leaving a country, just look at your ”friendly' neighbour.... many companies have abandoned Argentina over the years...either due to constant internal crises or because the government has created an extremely hostile business environment , making it unprofitable to stay on ...but that shouldn't be a problem, as according to CFK, it's their presence that has caused the downfall of the Argentine economy.
Feb 16th, 2014 - 10:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0129
Feb 17th, 2014 - 12:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not only have foreign companies left the country. Successfully running a restaurant in Arg. -even if you are a local- implies that you have to pay 50% of the salaries under the counter if you don't want to go out of business in 6 months. That is the effect of the so called “inclusion policies” from the half a$$ed bleeding hearts in power.
@129
Feb 17th, 2014 - 12:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0I was talking entire industries, not random companies...
Well folks, including “Free energy” Stevie, I wish Uruguay had the industrial problems, etc. that Australia has!
Feb 17th, 2014 - 11:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Much lower taxes than in Uruguay, no old commie bastard who “rules” them.
Just a bit hot in South Australia, that’s all.
What’s not to like?
“Of course, entire industries leaving a country is a major indicator that things are running smoothly...”
Feb 17th, 2014 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Agreed. Our economy has advanced so much we have effectively priced ourselves out of an industry. That's what getting rich and developed does.
It's called labour arbitrage. Look it up and educate yourself. Building a car doesn't take an educated worker. It isn't rocket science. It is just putting together pieces and welding or bolting them. Anyone can do that and for a much lower rate than A$50,000 per year.
As I highlighted in the article above:
”The changing mix of industries is actually a primary cause of our greater affluence. Countries that try to prevent their industry structure changing are the ones that stop getting richer.”
The proof will be in the pudding. Lucky we have a centre-right government in power for the foreseeable future to help manage this adjustment.
The fact is that this is hardly news in Australia any longer because the industry is iconic but most people see the logic in ceasing subsidies and can live with the consequences.
@131, “I was talking entire industries, not random companies...”
Feb 17th, 2014 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Companies, OR “entire industries” as you put it, can leave for different reasons......if entire industries leave a country, it seems to me that it is probably more due to specific characteristics of that particular segment , than to the economy as a whole, going bust, which would cause random companies of VARIOUS, or of ALL segments to get the hell out....as in the case of Argentina. Companies can leave, but if others, not necessarily of the same segment, don't come to replace them, re-creating jobs, that's when you're in the s**t.
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!