Wednesday, May 8th 2013 - 09:56 UTC

Maduro promises Uruguay permanent supply of oil and full Mercosur commitment

President Nicolas Maduro promised his Uruguayan counterpart Jose Mujica a “permanent” supply of petroleum from oil-rich Venezuela during the first leg of his visit to Mercosur member countries. Maduro also announced the signing of a strategic alliance in the energy sector with Uruguay.

The Venezuelan president cheered at the Urutransform factory

Addressing union leaders at Uruguay’s organized labor headquarters

Driving bus next to President Mujica

The Venezuelan leader arrived in Montevideo on Tuesday in his first overseas trip since winning Venezuela's April 14 special election to choose a successor to Hugo Chavez, who died March 5 after a long battle with cancer.

Besides the accord on oil, Mujica and Maduro attended the signing of other agreements to do with food exports to Venezuela and on transport, calling for the Urutransfor company to help with the modernization of the Caracas subway. Urutransfor is an electric hardware supplier which had gone bust was recovered with Venezuelan funds from the sale of oil to Uruguay.

In a joint press conference following a morning meeting, Maduro confirmed the standing supply of oil and fuels to Uruguay and announced he would be back in Montevideo at the end of June when Venezuela will be taking the rotating chair of Mercosur, currently held by Uruguay.

“This is an strategic energy project, for Venezuela, for Uruguay, for Mercosur, because we have the largest oil and gas reserves, and this makes Mercosur a really ‘heavy’ and respected negotiator in any world forum. We have oil for over a hundred years” said Maduro.

“Given the asymmetries and difficulties we face daily in Mercosur, the presence of Venezuela is essential to have more stable and more symmetric relations”, said Mujica underlining the commitment of Uruguay to regional integration.

“My visit ratifies the close links with Uruguay, with Mercosur, with the construction of a strategic integral map with us united in trade, agriculture, energy, culture, human relations, a deep sincere anti-imperialist union”, said Maduro.

He then went on to explain that the XIX century was the ‘century of division and when we conquered the first chapters of our independence’; this was followed by the XXth century of imperial dominance, of dictatorships of the looting of the resources of Latam countries, but the XXIst is the century of liberation and unity, that is why we are here”.

Maduro dressed in a typical Caribbean ‘guayabera’ shirt and a scarf with the Venezuelan colors because of Uruguay’s colder weather, on several occasions mentioned his mentor and predecessor Hugo Chavez and said that “the fresh tracks of Chavez can be felt across Latinamerica”.

“He came to build a new Latinamerica, he left us a large fatherland, which we must preserve, widen and multiply” insisted Maduro.

Besides holding private talks with Mujica, a joint session of ministers and advisors from both countries, visiting the recovered factory and receiving the keys of Montevideo at Town hall, Maduro ended the day at Uruguay’s organized labor headquarters, PIT-CNT where he participated of a debate on the ‘liberation’ struggle but also on the unions’ responsibility when the country in under the leadership of a Socialist pro-workers government.

The Venezuelan president was supposed to leave late in the evening for Buenos Aires, the second stop of his Mercosur tour, but decided to spend the night in Montevideo. On Thursday Maduro travels to Brazil to meet with President Dilma Rousseff.

During his day in Montevideo, Maduro a former public transport union leader did most to the driving with Mujica in the front seat next to him.

In the several encounters with the press, Maduro did not avoid questions and underlined the transparency of the Venezuelan contested presidential election: “former President Jimmy Carter who has monitored elections in over ninety countries has stated that the Venezuelan system electoral is the best, the one that gives voters most guarantees. I imagine you won’t think that Mr Carter is a Communist or a Chavista”.

Wherever Maduro went he had supporters with banners, flags and drums with the exception of the square in front of the hotel where he is staying. Venezuelans living in Uruguay protested, banged saucepans and claimed the elections had been a big fraud and the real winner, opposition leader Henrique Capriles.

Precisely a modest group of Venezuela’s opposition is ‘shadowing’ Maduro’s Mercosur countries visit, and in Uruguay they were received in Parliament by members of the opposition. In a press conference they claimed that the Venezuelan regime is becoming increasingly authoritarian, persecutes members of the opposition, muzzles the media and organized a fraud in the last election which declared Maduro president.

Maduro and his 200-strong delegation are traveling in five aircraft with impressive security measures which includes over a hundred armed bodyguards, his own chef and supply of drinking water. The delegation occupied three full floors of one of Montevideo’s main hotels.

 

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1 briton (#) May 08th, 2013 - 12:07 pm Report abuse
from oil-rich Venezuela during the first leg-
of their growing influence..

why the interest.??
.
2 screenname (#) May 08th, 2013 - 12:18 pm Report abuse
“Maduro and his 200-strong delegation are traveling in five aircraft with impressive security measures which includes over a hundred armed bodyguards, his own chef and supply of drinking water.”

Is the president of Venezuela really of that much consequence?

Seems like a bit of a bonkers egomaniac that has watched too many shows on TV about conspiracy theories to me.
3 manchesterlad (#) May 08th, 2013 - 12:51 pm Report abuse
@2
It´s a typical reaction of someone who believes in his own over-exaggerated importance, he also believes in his own conspiracy theories that there´s someone around every corner trying to pop him off

I doubt he will last the full term & when Capriles has to pick up the pieces of the ruined economy, he will come a calling for all the oil debts incurred over the last few years & then Uruguay, Argentina et all will have to cough up billions!!!
4 reality check (#) May 08th, 2013 - 01:02 pm Report abuse
He should be wearing a conical shaped hat made from aluminium foil, just in case the CIA try to infect him with one of their satellites! Like they did with the late Mr Chavez.
5 Condorito (#) May 08th, 2013 - 01:43 pm Report abuse
“Maduro promises Uruguay permanent supply of oil ”

I am sure that Uruguay already has a permanent supply of oil.
What is relevant is the price of that oil.
6 Troy Tempest (#) May 08th, 2013 - 03:18 pm Report abuse
Looks like a Venezuela only initiative.

No mention of CFK along with Mercosur.

Does CFK not have the same 'close relationship' with Maduro thst she had with Chavez??

Sounds like an independent deal with Uruguay, leaving them less dependent on Argentina.
At the same time, what assurances does CFK have for an oil supply this winter, given her poor credit, and accumulating debt with Venezuela already?
7 ElaineB (#) May 08th, 2013 - 03:33 pm Report abuse
Isn't Maduro in Argentina today? Or is it tomorrow.
8 Stevie (#) May 08th, 2013 - 03:58 pm Report abuse
Troy
Argentina doesn't owe Venezuela anything, that's purely according to Capriles.

And as we all know, history is written by the Winner...
9 Captain Poppy (#) May 08th, 2013 - 04:12 pm Report abuse
The Bus driver parks in Argentina today. The the Jungle Monkey needs to make rounds to show he is the new boss....however he is no chubby.......that's why chubby will be chirping on his should the entire trip.
There is nothing to sell to Argentina as they need Venezuela more than Veneuela needs Argentina. Bolivia is a given to fall in step with the Bus.....probably Ecuador. The rest of SA may not be.
10 Troy Tempest (#) May 08th, 2013 - 04:40 pm Report abuse
8 Stevie

$3 billion of oil supplies @15% interest??

Or is that just 'written off' ???
11 ChrisR (#) May 08th, 2013 - 04:43 pm Report abuse
No doubt our commie President got on really well with the other commie President and the little bird. Maduro has just proven you can’t take the bus driver out of the President!

I don't know whether to laugh or cry about Mujica. At least HE will be gone during next year.

As far as Maduro goes, hopefully somebody in his 100 strong bodyguards will be bribed to top him while he is in AR. Now that WOULD be worth money to see.
12 Troy Tempest (#) May 08th, 2013 - 05:45 pm Report abuse
@8 Stevie

Is that you posting as “Walter Lippmann” the dead liberal, on the Cuban Doctor thread??

I thought perhaps you or Thinkedover might creating a new persona since the last ones were sunk.
'Think' perhaps, or some other has-been anarchist!!!
13 ChrisR (#) May 08th, 2013 - 06:34 pm Report abuse
12 Troy Tempest

Have a look at the second-rate Walter Lippmann, NOT to be confused with the original of the same name who was a RESPECTED ”American public intellectual, writer, reporter, and political commentator famous for being among the first to introduce the concept of the Cold War; he coined the term stereotype in the modern psychological meaning as well. Lippmann was twice awarded (1958 and 1962) a Pulitzer Prize for his syndicated newspaper column, “Today and Tomorrow”.” (source Wikipedia)

www.walterlippmann.com/

Doesn't he remind you of someone? YES, “Gorgeous Toni” the argie numb-nut, the Veteran of the Malvinas War, which of course was NOTHING to do with the Argentines.

His CubaNews is a right good laugh. I bet he must know Prat-Junta, he has a similar intellect by the look of the drivel on the link. His cap has that many flags on it I bet he does not know which way to turn!

LOLs
14 Stevie (#) May 08th, 2013 - 08:03 pm Report abuse
Troy
The only one to claim Argentina owed Venezuela Money for oil, is Capriles.

According to both Argentina and Venezuela, that is yet another lie.

www.buenosairesherald.com/article/128423/venezuela-denies-argentine-debt

Either way, history is written by the Winner.

And Capriles lost...
15 Captain Poppy (#) May 08th, 2013 - 09:23 pm Report abuse
Caprilles is a bigger winner then he is aware of. After the “Bus” finishes off venezuela, maybe in the nest 18 months the military will terminate his presidency. Whomever walked away from this election was doomed from chummy's disasterous policies. No wonder he came back as a bird.....he can finish shitting on his country as he flies over it.
16 Troy Tempest (#) May 09th, 2013 - 12:08 am Report abuse
@13 ChrisR

OMG - brothers!!!!

To be honest, Mr. Lippmann, the Lesser, is quite mild mannered and may be contemplative and sincere.

I have to read more.

Frankly, I think P-Hunter would be disappointed and find little satisfaction with Walter.

Let's see how he responds.

So far, he seems I'll-informed for a writer.
17 ynsere (#) May 09th, 2013 - 03:12 am Report abuse
More oil from Venezuela is bad news for Uruguayan consumers of diesel. We shall continue paying a premium to obtain good quality diesel, as the stuff made with Venezuelan crude has an extremely high sulpher content and will ruin smaller engines in a matter of months, and make additives necessary for larger ones. Even then, it isn't exactly cheap.
18 Stevie (#) May 09th, 2013 - 08:34 am Report abuse
ynsere
Sour crude is used to make heavy crude just as diesel.
Sweet crude is mainly used to make gasoline and other light crudes.
And in any case, the sulfur is removed before the crude is made into petrol.

Either you are filling your car with sour crude, or you are talking crap...
19 GeoffWard2 (#) May 09th, 2013 - 01:57 pm Report abuse
“The fresh tracks of Chavez can be felt across Latinamerica.
He came to build a new Latinamerica,
he left us a large fatherland,
which we must preserve, widen and multiply”.
Maduro

... first we take Paraguay ..... then we take Uruguay ...
(with apologies to L Cohen)
A surprising absence of comment on Maduro's rhetoric.
20 ChrisR (#) May 09th, 2013 - 04:21 pm Report abuse
18 Stevie

You know as well as I do that the biggest producer of sour crude (and it is really sour) is Venezuela.

Venezuela also has serious problems with the refining capacity and efficacy, especially of the ‘sulphur’ in all its forms.

Would you use diesel from Venezuela in a new diesel car with a particulate filter given that the H2S content may be out of specification?

I bet you say you will never have a new car.
21 Troy Tempest (#) May 09th, 2013 - 05:19 pm Report abuse
@18 Stevie
“And in any case, the sulfur is removed before the crude is made into petrol.

Either you are filling your car with sour crude, or you are talking crap...”

Stevie
Please re-read ynsere's post, below.
He is specifically talking about DIESEL.
Sulphur is not necessarily removed.
Modern diesel vehicles require “low-sulphur” diesel fuel, as opposed to “no-sulphur” diesel.
This is different from the “petrol” that you mentioned @18.

@17ynsere
“More oil from Venezuela is bad news for Uruguayan consumers of diesel. We shall continue paying a premium to obtain good quality diesel, as the stuff made with Venezuelan crude has an extremely high sulpher content and will ruin smaller engines in a matter of months, and make additives necessary for larger ones. Even then, it isn't exactly cheap”
22 ynsere (#) May 09th, 2013 - 05:59 pm Report abuse
Stevie's lack of familiarity with the problems with high-sulpher diesel faced by Uruguayans is further proof he hasn't been near the country for at least seven years. He isn't even a Uruguayan, just a full time Argentine salaried troll in a crumbling Argentine city.
23 Stevie (#) May 09th, 2013 - 07:37 pm Report abuse
Troy
Sulfur is indeed removed from high-sulfur diesel.
This is done in a refinery.
You would never use sour crude as fuel in a car.
And I am talking about both diesel and gasoline, exchange “petrol” for “fuel”, my bad.
Sulfur is a natural ingredient in pertroleum and I've never heard of any type of crude oil that was sulfur free.

ynsere
The problems with high sulfur diesel you are experiencing has more to do with the refineries than the Venezuelan crude.
That, or you just bought a car that should be running in Europe instead.
I can assure you most diesel running Uruguayans would experience even more issues than today, should they run on low sulfur diesel in their older diesel cars.

Chris
I save you for last, for obvious reasons ;)
You know as well as I that Alaska crude has even more sulfur than Venezuelan crude.
Venezuela has indeed some issues with removing the sulfur, in that I agree.

But, would you use low sulfur diesel on a older diesel car (pre-...when was it? 2007?)?
How about lubrication?
And how many people have newer diesel cars than that in Uruguay?

On another note, as you will most probably hit me with environmental issues.
At what temperatures does sulfur become an issue?
I'll leave it there for now...

;)
24 Troy Tempest (#) May 09th, 2013 - 10:36 pm Report abuse
@23 Stevie
“Sulfur is indeed removed from high-sulfur diesel.
This is done in a refinery.
You would never use sour crude as fuel in a car.
And I am talking about both diesel and gasoline, exchange “petrol” for “fuel”, my bad.
Sulfur is a natural ingredient in pertroleum and I've never heard of any type of crude oil that was sulfur free.”

Stevie
Gasoline (petrol), is different from Diesel in that it requires much more refining by various 'cracking' processes and stages, to remove the heavier substances like Sulphur - expensive refining.

As you pointed out, sour crude like Venezuela's, will require much more refining than 'sweet crude' the type that is best for producing “low-sulphur Diesel”.

It stands to reason that sour crude takes a lot more refining to make suitable Diesel for modern engines.
With the refinery process shortcomings of Venezuela thst you have mentioned, it is easier to produce Diesel with higher content of Sulphur.
That is what ynsere is talking about. Oil supplied by Venezuela is not desirable as often 'low Sulphur is not available.

As to using the 'wrong cars' or those 'best suited to Europe' - these are the Modern Diesels and will continue to be produced and sold, in LATAM and EU, whilst the older type disappear through attrition or environmental regulation.
THAT is the reality.
Either Venezurla's refining capacity must be improved or expanded, or a better source for low sulphur diesel must be found. As it is, Venezuelan sources will not meet the requirements.

Obviously, ANY Diesel is better than NO Diesel, but ynsere and other Uruguayans seem to be concerned that low sulphur will not be available, and Maduro's fuel does not have a price advantage

@18stevie

“ynsere
Sour crude is used to make heavy crude just as diesel.
Sweet crude is mainly used to make gasoline and other light crudes.
And in any case, the sulfur is removed before the crude is made into petrol.

Either you are filling your car with sour crude, or you are talking crap...”
25 ynsere (#) May 10th, 2013 - 12:20 am Report abuse
Troy Tempest @ 24
Low-sulpher diesel is available in Uruguay, but costs about 20% more than regular diesel, and is even more expensive than petrol. Conventional wisdom here has it that small diesel engines develop serious problems if run on the cheaper stuff, mid-size engines can run on the cheaper variety but need expensive additives while larger engines need fewer additives.
As a Uruguayan citizen, I don't see why I should have to pay a premium for diesel that will not cause damage. Even the stuff from Venezuela is expensive enough.
26 Troy Tempest (#) May 10th, 2013 - 03:05 am Report abuse
@25ynsere

Thx for that info, ynsere.

That is exactly what I expected :-)

I hate coming across as a pedant, but I wanted to lay things out clearly - hopefully so there was no room for 'ducking and weaving'.
27 Stevie (#) May 10th, 2013 - 04:16 am Report abuse
Troy
Cheers for repeating what I just said, at least we agree.
As for the new cars, of course they will be produced in larger scale in the future, and hence the refineries will have to step up.
But reality is, low sulfur diesel is a bad lubricant an will destroy your old diesel engine. Most Uruguayans run on these older cars and then you have ynsere. He just bought a new car and can't afford the fuel it requires...
28 Troy Tempest (#) May 10th, 2013 - 04:53 am Report abuse
@27stevie

“Cheers for repeating what I just said, at least we agree.
As for the new cars, of course they will be produced in larger scale in the future, and hence the refineries will have to step up.
But reality is, low sulfur diesel is a bad lubricant an will destroy your old diesel engine. Most Uruguayans run on these older cars and then you have ynsere. He just bought a new car and can't afford the fuel it requires...”

Oh, c'mon, STEVIE!

That is just nonsense. Really, I expected better from you - that is so 2nd tier.

Ynsere will have no problem obtaining the high-sulphur inferior gasoline (petrol).

You do Señor Ynsere a disservice, he is of the more affluent class if he has a recently-produced, technologically current vehicle.

I am sure that many would be resentful that they must pay a 20% premium for the fuel that meets the standards for current technology.

With a stroke, Mercosur's Venezuela has cornered the fuel market in Uruguay, ensuring the dependence of Uruguay and profits from low grade fuel that is not globally competitive.

Uruguay playing the role of the submissive schmuck for Mercosur's puppet masters, Venezuela and Argentina.
29 ynsere (#) May 10th, 2013 - 07:39 am Report abuse
Troy Tempest @ 28

“Uruguay playing the role of the submissive schmuck for Mercosur's puppet masters, Venezuela and Argentina.”

Sad, but true.
30 Stevie (#) May 10th, 2013 - 07:50 am Report abuse
Troy
Of course low sulfur diesel made of heavy crude will cost more than the one made of light crude, the difference lays in refining costs.

And what you say about Venezuelan oil not being competitive on the global market is quite stunning. Have you seen the oil prices the last 15 years? Any oil, in all its forms, is competitive on the global market. Including heavy crude sand oil. And even if it's almost impossible to access...
31 ChrisR (#) May 10th, 2013 - 11:26 am Report abuse
The diesel guys.

NEW diesels which operate a CAN line system (the easiest way of determining the injection status) use high pressure pumps to feed a common fuel rail onto which are fitted electronically controlled injectors.

These injectors are fired several times in EACH firing sequence and the quartz crystal they have in the fuel circuit dumps the pressure to the return circuit thus modulating very precisely the fuel delivered before and DURING the firing cycle.

They are NOTHING like the old mechanical fuel pumps which needed sulphur to lubricate the internal control systems before pumping the fuel under pressure to a spring loaded injector. The spring hold the fuel back until it is overcome by the pump and squirted into the cylinder in accordance to pump advance, etc. Very poor system which only gets much worse with age. Injector springs weaken leading to dribbling and smoky exhausts OR they break leading to clouds of black smoke from the exhaust.

In summary: the rotary HP pumps of the new cars do not need low sulfer fuel for lubrication but ALL engines need low sulphur for reasons of reducing acid wear on the cylinder bores, etc.

Idiots who 'blip' their engines as they switch them off 'to keep fuel in the cylinder' (and a lot of people in Uruguay do that) are simply wearing / corroding the engine leading to MUCH reduced service life.

AND that is without discussing lubricating oil developments!
32 Troy Tempest (#) May 10th, 2013 - 11:50 am Report abuse
@30stevie
“Troy
Of course low sulfur diesel made of heavy crude will cost more than the one made of light crude, the difference lays in refining costs.

And what you say about Venezuelan oil not being competitive on the global market is quite stunning. Have you seen the oil prices the last 15 years? Any oil, in all its forms, is competitive on the global market. Including heavy crude sand oil. And even if it's almost impossible to access.”

Stevie

Actually, we seem to be in full agreement.
Venezuela's sour, sulphur-rib crude, is more expensive and difficult to refine.
This results in Venezuela's customers being stuck with the inferior high-sulphur product, or paying a 20% premium for the low-sulphur Diesel they must have.
Ynsere, Uruguay resident tells us that not even the high sulphur fuel is cheap.
Did I hear that Venezuela does not have the ability or refining capacity to refine its fuel exports adequately?

ChrisR

Thanks for your explanation. So Diesel engines and fuel requirements have changed in the past 100 years?
33 ChrisR (#) May 10th, 2013 - 01:14 pm Report abuse
32 Troy Tempest

I could not put it better myself! :o)

Stevie / Guzz has a background in big ships: they of course have the ability to use a variety of fuels, none of them suitable for motor transport.
34 Captain Poppy (#) May 10th, 2013 - 04:13 pm Report abuse
Troy Venezuela can only refine about 60% of their honey. The the remainder is refined in the USA and imported back as a refined product. So as they claim we, the USA is importing Venezuelan crude, it;'s being refined and exported back. They sell it to us for 85 a barrel and buy it back for 120 a barrel as a refined product
35 Troy Tempest (#) May 10th, 2013 - 05:34 pm Report abuse
...and Uruguay must buy it from them.
36 Captain Poppy (#) May 10th, 2013 - 07:02 pm Report abuse
perhaps....it's funny that they claim the USA needs them when in fact it is the other way around
37 Stevie (#) May 10th, 2013 - 07:37 pm Report abuse
Well lads, taking into consideration that the vast majority of the fuel is NOT used in small engines, I'd say Venezuelan oil is quite competitive indeed.
As Chris says, big ships uses heavy fuel and the sulfur problem is solved keeping the temperatures at their limits.

There is a problem with SA refineries, but that will be solved in the future.

And talking about car fuel, I'd say hydrogen is the solution to all our problems, after all...
38 Captain Poppy (#) May 10th, 2013 - 09:17 pm Report abuse
The problem with SA refineries is that SA governments are operating them. Them seem to blow up or catch fire.
39 Troy Tempest (#) May 11th, 2013 - 05:32 am Report abuse
@37stevie

I agree with you, Stevie.

How about that???
I mean, I agree that “Hydrogen fuel cells are the way.”
I was recently very privileged to have a VIP guided tour of the Mercedes-Benz Hydrogen Research Ctr.
Very very impressive, and very feasible.
Amazing performance from the test car!

However, although there are Hydrogen stations springing up on the West Coast of North America (One is near my house), it will be some time before Hydrogen cars are common, let alone widespread.

If what you say is true. Argentinians and Uruguayans still haven't been able to afford the transition to the newer Diesels. How long will they take to buy into hydrogen-fueled cars, build the necessary infrastructure?
40 Stevie (#) May 11th, 2013 - 07:09 am Report abuse
Well Troy, I don't see why Uruguay should develop ULSD when they could go straight for the Hydrogen.
But that one is hard to call, isn't it?
41 ChrisR (#) May 11th, 2013 - 11:39 am Report abuse
The real logjam with hydrogen cars is the public’s fear / misstrust of it and the explosions that can occur if the stuff is misused. The propagated flame front of hydrogen contained in a glass tube is among the fastest of any material tested.

This is not helped at all by the need to have very high pressure hydrogen in composite material tanks to feed the present generation of hydrogen fuel cells.

Notice that the forerunners are Mercedes and BMW. Their customers will be the only ones who can affors them. And would anyone buy a car so equipped made by China? Not me.
42 Troy Tempest (#) May 12th, 2013 - 06:09 am Report abuse
40stevie

Uruguay would have to invest in the infrastructure = $$$

The Uruguayans would have to buy NEW cars - no, I don't think they'll be jumping to Hydrogen.
Nope, they're going to be with “dirty” Diesel for a long time, now.

ChrisR
You are correct about the tanks - 10,000 psi.

However, despite explosion being the biggest fear, it will not happen.
Creating the correct conditions for ignition is very difficult.
They are extremely safe. This is fear that the industry has had to overcome.

Of course, there is no point of ignition in a hydrogen fuel cell car.

As you say, Mercedes is very close to a mass market product. Fleet vehicles are use successfully, already.
BMW has nothing, but Volkswagen has just engaged Ballard Power in Vancouver, to assist them with fuel-cell technology development.

Both manufacturers should be producing affordable vehicles. The current Mercedes test mules are their small B-Klasse, for example.
However, the AMG Gullwing version should have amazing torque from the electric drive :-)

Still Chris, if you want to imagine Think, Marcos, and Dany driving exploding Chery's, go ahead.

LOL!!!!
43 Stevie (#) May 12th, 2013 - 07:17 am Report abuse
Troy
Well, if “dirty” diesel is our destiny for a time to come, then Venezuelan oil fits us perfectly.
And still, we can avoid ULSD altogether and jump on the hydrogen wagon as soon as prices have dropped as a result of demand.

Good times ;)
44 ChrisR (#) May 12th, 2013 - 11:20 am Report abuse
42 Troy Tempest

You misunderstand where the risk of explosion is!

It's the 10k psi composite tank in a smash that would concern me, not an exploding fuel cell. Depending on the shape, if an 'end cap' (I know they don't have end caps but they are shaped that way and the hoop stress interface with the change in shape could behave as if they did have them) blew off you have a high pressure super rapid rocket inside the vehicle.

That would be interesting!
45 Troy Tempest (#) May 12th, 2013 - 02:06 pm Report abuse
Stevie
Perhaps Uruguay might make that leap afterall. “Clean” diesel technology for small engines in Uruguay is at the mercy of market forces when the supply is expensive to obtain.
What will happen to the auto industry?

Chris

Obviously I am not an expert on Hydrogen Fuel Cell technology, but I was assured by the Mercedes texhnicians that tank rupture would not present a danger.
You can be sure that detail came up in conversation. I get the feeling that it is what most people ask.
I imagine that the spectre of the Hindenberg is etched into their psyche.
They would have a lot answer for this time around should they start mass producing rolling bombs and putting them on the street.
The public will have to be properly reassured that they present no more danger than the current gasoline or diesel vehicles on the road.
Safety must be one of their primary considerations.

Meanwhile, one might fantasize about the thought of a rocket-propelled B Klasse of white-coated MB Technicians and normally-smug Auto Journalists, hurtling across the Proving Grounds at Mach 3, before erupting into a ball of flame as it comes to a sudden stop in the lobby of the Visitor Centre...
46 Captain Poppy (#) May 12th, 2013 - 03:38 pm Report abuse
Just slightly off tack, I see the “Driver” is blaming Caprilles for food shortages in Venezuela. Shit has already started hitting the fan less than a month after the “Driver” lost the election and was given the office or the president. He's fucked.....he can't feed his people and he is going to supply to SA...........great decision.
47 ChrisR (#) May 12th, 2013 - 04:17 pm Report abuse
45 Troy Tempest

Lovely description inthe final paragraph: would that be a V1 Hybrid? :o)

The Hindenburg had cells filled with hydrogen as the means for lifting but the cells were very fragile and had automatic pressure relief valves to vent the pressure, probably less than one bar.

10k psi is a hell of a 'spring' and even a small pinprick puncture would result in a catastrophic unwinding of the composite tank. I would want to see the proving test video to have confidence in the statement that “that tank rupture would not present a danger”. We old engineers have seen most of the disasters more than once: there is very little that is really new in the world.

I remember Bill Gates boasting that his technology eclipsed the safety worries about Windows controlling a driverless car: puts a whole new perspective on ‘crashing’ and the blue screen of death! :o). Even the space station has just changed over to Linux, it was on Vista, so I can really understand why they made the move.
48 Troy Tempest (#) May 12th, 2013 - 05:54 pm Report abuse
Chris,

It would be interesting to know more, and I'm sure that info is available. The US DOT might even have standards for Hyrrogen tanks in vehicles.

As to ignition, I was told that even the most determined terrorist would have a tough time detonating an “F-Cell” vehicle.

Something to do with the balance of the gases not being in the right proportion. However, I am not a Chemist so I do not have a full understanding.

It will be interesting to see how quickly this technology developes.

It is undeniable that the Cells themselves, work very well, but it is a now a matter of production quality to bring costs down.

Are you getting ideas of launching MB V-1's over Bs As from their base in Stanley??

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