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Montevideo, November 19th 2018 - 09:20 UTC

Brazilian leading presidential candidate stabbed and in serious condition; attack could bolster his chances

Friday, September 7th 2018 - 08:54 UTC
Full article 94 comments

The leading candidate in Brazil’s presidential election is in serious but stable condition after being stabbed by an assailant at a campaign rally on Thursday, doctors said, pushing an already chaotic campaign into further disarray. Read full article

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  • Jack Bauer

    “Under Brazilian campaign laws, Bolsonaro’s tiny coalition has almost no campaign time on government-regulated candidate ad blocs on TV and radio. That means he relies deeply on social media and raucous rallies around the country to drum up support. If Bolsonaro is not able to go out in the streets, it could jeopardize his campaign”.

    “If Bolsonaro is not able to go out in the streets, it could jeopardize his campaign”......

    Looking at the attempt on Bolsonaro's life, caused by intolerence, purely from the point of view of publicity, I think it might have the opposite effect ....the fact that he has virtually no TV time, and will not be able to ”go out into the streets', will be more than compensated by the time media will spend on commenting his recovery. And might reduce the attacks from his opponents, for fear of being seen as a lack of solidarity.

    Regarding the political 'intolerance', which led to this event, I guess we can thank the 9-fingered toad.

    Sep 07th, 2018 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    JB
    “I guess we can thank ...” The truth of which is the attacker has suffered from a serious
    mental illness for a long time. He has no political affiliations, and was told by God to carry out the attack.

    Sep 08th, 2018 - 01:49 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    Re the guy who stabbed him, according to the BBC:

    “Adélio Bispo de Oliveira, 40, is a left-wing supporter who has been very vocal in his criticism of Mr Bolsonaro. He posted many messages on Facebook denouncing his policies. Between 2007 and 2014 he was affiliated to the left-leaning PSOL party.

    He had campaigned for the release of former President Lula, but in recent months he had expressed on Facebook his disillusionment with all politicians and declared that he did not intend to vote for any of the presidential candidates.

    His relatives said that he seemed to have mental problems and that they had lost contact with him.

    They told O Globo newspaper that he was very religious and spent most of this time alone, reading the Bible.”

    At least it seems to be just one crazy guy, and not some kind of group targeting politicians.

    Sep 08th, 2018 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Yeah I found similar update but couldn't post it until someone else had.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-45451473

    Sep 08th, 2018 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Jack Bauer

    TH
    “...the attacker has suffered from a serious mental illness for a long time. He has no political affiliations..” two lies in one sentence. Thanks for the contribution, numb nuts.

    Sep 09th, 2018 - 12:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    JB
    Not at all the lie was you claiming Lula responsible. I simply posted what the media had revealed at the time.
    He also had attacked someone else previously.

    Sep 09th, 2018 - 03:26 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Enrique Massot

    @JB

    “...I guess we can thank the 9-fingered toad.”

    Look how fast our specialist in all things Brazilian is rushing to try and make some hay out of this unfortunate attack on democracy.

    Investigators: Jack has already found the ultimate truth. Case is closed.

    Sep 09th, 2018 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @TH
    Don't lie Terry...it's not nice.

    First, I said “I guess” we can thank Lula for all the “political intolerance” - I did not say he was responsible for the stabbing ; I mentioned the political intolerenace (that has appeared in Brazil over the last decade) based on the 'fact' that it WAS Lula who first used the strategy of stirring up the masses by always telling them that the elite was out to screw them, in order to throw them against the rich...So, indirectly, it is reasonable to presume the stabbing was a result of this intolerance....as already confessed by the would-be murderer.

    The fact that in the past he had already physically assaulted someone else according to YOU translates into a 'serious mental illness'....how dramatic numb nuts, but your excuses for the idiot won't work. If anyone is mentally ill, it's you.

    Second, going back to “the attacker has suffered from serious mental illness for a long time” it's pure bs. Obviously someone who tries to commit murder has a screw loose, but to call it a 'serious mental ilness' is a stretch. On the other hand, to say that all extreme lefties are deranged is probably correct.

    Third, “he has no political affiliations”.....more crap. Not at THIS moment, but he was affiliated to the PSOL (extreme left party) for 7 years, up to 2014......

    That you “....simply posted what the media had revealed at the time”, is more bs.....you made your incorrect statements BEFORE you posted the BBC link...Confess, numb nuts.

    @EM
    Contrary to TH's bs, and your silly presumptions, I have NEVER said or insinuated I am a “specialist” in 'all things Brazilian' (LOL)....but I DO know a damned sight more than you do, about Brazil.
    BTW, I am still waiting for you tell me who my “preferred candidate” is, and who is “facing difficulties”.....c'mon Reekie, did the cat eat your tongue ?

    Lastly , my post (at the top) simply mentioned the effect the stabbing might have on Bolsonaro's campaign, nothing more...why so upset ?

    Sep 09th, 2018 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    JB
    You stated clearly we should thank Lula, which means your blaming him so don't try and wiggle out it.
    “before you posted the BBC link” You'd lie about what you had for breakfast. As I already stated “couldn't post it until someone else had.”

    Sep 10th, 2018 - 12:09 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    @EM
    You evidently disagree with JB's opinion, which is fine. But he's got a right to hold one, and express it, hasn't he?

    @JB
    “Lula who first used the strategy of stirring up the masses by always telling them that the elite was out to screw them”

    Isn't that pretty much the truth though? Seems less likely the guy was influenced by Lula, as he used to be in a different party and said he was disillusioned with all politicians.

    @TH
    The article you linked is the same one I quoted and doesn't say the suspect had attacked anyone previously, that he had no political affiliation, or that he was told by God to carry out the attack. So you have provided no evidence for your claims.

    Sep 10th, 2018 - 09:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    “The article you linked is the same one I quoted”
    It was just one of couple dozen I perused on Google News. At that time, no political affiliation had been revealed on any site.

    Sep 10th, 2018 - 10:20 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    So that wasn't what the media had revealed at the time, then. What about your claim he had attacked someone else previously?

    Sep 10th, 2018 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    “So you have provided no evidence for your claims.” Unfortunately not every body else operates on the same ethical standard as you and your bosom buddies.
    “or that he was told by God to carry out the attack.”
    “de Oliveira says no one but ”God above“ ordered him to carry out the attack.”
    https:// www.ndtv.com/world-news/god-sent-him-to-stab-brazilian-candidate-jair-bolsonaro-attacker-adelio-bispo-de-oliveira-says-in-vi-1913491
    “ What about your claim he had attacked .....”
    The man(de Oliveira) was arrested in 2013 for another assault, police said.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/brazilian-candidate-stabbed-gets-hospital-almost-dead-n907311

    Sep 10th, 2018 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    TH
    I'm not trying to 'wiggle' out of anything you silly fool...Obviously I think there's a link between the political intolerance - caused by Lula - and the would-be murderer's actions....but I did not state 'that', as you claimed.

    I also know very well that you said ”As I already stated “couldn't post it until someone else had.”
    But before you did (post it) you had ALREADY claimed “The truth of which is the attacker has suffered from a serious mental illness for a long time. He has no political affiliations, and was told by God to carry out the attack”.....2 lies : 1) serious mental illness and 2) no political affiliations...it's all above, to be seen by anyone...even you, numb nuts.

    @DT
    EM is very loose with 'his' categorical statements but can never back them up....sad.
    He has the nerve to tell me he knows who my “preferred candidate” is, that is “facing difficulties”, yet he doesnt want to name him.....what's the matter with him ?? I haven't even decided whom I'll vote for...

    Lula was the first president from the “'working class” (despite the fact he never worked much) ...therefore, who before him, if ALL (presidents were) from the elite, would have stirred the workers up, against themselves ??
    The would-be murderer's intolerance (of politicians), although perhaps not 'directly' linked to anything Lula may have said, is most likely to have appeared during his stint in the PSOL, in 2007-2014....PT's “golden” era .
    Adelio Bispo de Oliveira does claim it was God who told him to do it, but to what extent is that just an attempt to plead insanity ? no one knows...after his preliminary deposition to the Feds, they said he does not seem crazy at all, that he knew damned well what he was doing....

    TH has a serious mental illness....he invents what was never said, he denies proof if it goes against his bs, he is a disgustingly dishonest person, a filthy liar....but all that is a problem only for him....I hope he becomes more deranged by the day...

    Sep 10th, 2018 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    JB
    “I think there's a link between the political intolerance - caused by Lula” I would say your wacko if you don't recognise the greatest political intolerance is by the one who claimed that is he was elected, “there should be thirty-thousand killed, and if that involves innocents, so what.”
    So the only new information we have is that he did until 2014 have political connections.
    “de Oliveira says no one but ”God above“ ordered him to carry out the attack.”
    https:// www.ndtv.com/world-news/god-sent-him-to-stab-brazilian-candidate-jair-bolsonaro-attacker-adelio-bispo-de-oliveira-says-in-vi-1913491
    “Luis Boudens, president of the National Federation of Federal Police, told the AP that the assailant appeared to be deranged.”
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/brazilian-candidate-stabbed-gets-hospital-almost-dead-n907311

    Sep 10th, 2018 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    IIRC this came up in a story about Macri. Being mostly interested in Argentina, EM assumed you posted to defend Macri and that's who he meant by your 'preferred candidate'. While you, being mostly interested in Brazil and not supporting Macri particularly, assumed EM meant some candidate in Brazil.

    No previous presidents would have tried to stir workers up against the elite, but other politicians or union leaders might have? Anyway, since the elite have been stealing for years there's a good reason for the ordinary workers to be angry.

    At least TH did show some of what he said was true (or at least, it was reported in the press). But it's too soon to know how crazy Oliveira is, and what his motive was exactly. We should give the police time to investigate before drawing conclusions either way.

    Sep 10th, 2018 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    “TH did show some of what he said was true” As I always do, otherwise I'd be like JB.

    Sep 10th, 2018 - 11:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Are you really not interested in anything but scoring points in some imaginary high school debate? I talk to Jack because I can have an thought-provoking discussion with him. All you do is quote other people, sources I can read for myself and have to, since you often take things out of context. Don't you have any opinions or insights of your own, experiences that might be relevant or interesting, or interest in learning new things or understanding other people's viewpoints?

    Sep 11th, 2018 - 09:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    “I can have an thought-provoking discussion with him” Thats an oxymoron as he's a compulsive liar. “the political intolerance - caused by Lula”
    Here's a perfect example of the reality in Brazil.
    Jair Bolsonaro
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGTtIGmOY24&authuser=0
    “Don't you have any opinions or insights of your own” Yes maintaining, a truthful record unless you enjoy indulging other peoples fantasies.

    Sep 11th, 2018 - 10:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • :o))

    In a country where different forms of man-made-injuries are so common, one more or one less stabbing [or even killing] is not likely to swing the votes/voters.

    Sep 11th, 2018 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    Jair Bolsonaro, here's the same video on this page with sub-titles.
    http://www.brasilwire.com/bolsonaro-terrorist-by-definition/

    Sep 11th, 2018 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    Ok, perhaps EM was referring to Macri...dunno. I don’t even vote in Argentina, and if not mistaken the subject was elections in Brazil…but ok, makes no difference now, as he won’t answer anyway.

    Before Lula, there was no evident sign of resentment between “social classes”…but he encouraged it, then explored it shamelessly, regardless of consequences.
    Cannot disagree that “ordinary ‘workers’ “ should be angry - but with the politicians, responsible for 99% of the stealing ; It's not the elite stealing their taxes. It’s the ‘elite’, whether good or bad, that employs ‘workers’, and the law (when necry) protects the latter against the former….but what protects us against the politicians ?

    “At least TH did show 'some' of what he said was true”... not really, but that's not the point I was making.
    Initially, I only said the attack was a consequence of political intolerance (which started 10 years ago, and 'imo', tks to the toad) but I did NOT state “Lula was responsible for the attack”, as TH claimed I had - see his 3rd post : “...the lie was you claiming Lula responsible”; looks like TH rushed to conclusions...his problem.

    It's pretty obvious there's a connection between the attack and political intolerance, but I never blamed Lula for the 'attack'. In his 1st post, TH made two broad statements, as if they were fact - the 'supposed' serious mental illness, although there was no proof of it - then, or even now; and also that ABO had no political affiliation...which was proved wrong asa he was identified...TWO lies, just TH's pathetic attempt to shift blame from ABO (a radical leftie) to God.
    Instead of sticking to fact, he selected what suited him, then twisted the facts ;
    His 3rd post is a weak attempt to justify his previous rubbish.
    Strange that he, claiming to be a legal expert , would accept the first unproven allegation of mental insanity…he’d make a real shitty lawyer.

    And Daniel Abade ? who 's he ? another leftist journalist......

    Sep 11th, 2018 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    JB
    “TWO lies,...” with no proof from the biggest liar on this site. Whom I have outed innumerable times.
    “researchers found that the most honest people were the ones who scored highest on the intelligence test.”
    https:// www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/04/14/this-unusual-test-reveals-how-smart-you-are/?utm_term=.bff44eb3aca0
    “There's a connection between the attack and political intolerance,”
    Probably the person who states, 30,000 people should be killed, regardless that they are innocent. That congress should suspended.
    http://www.brasilwire.com/bolsonaro-terrorist-by-definition/
    Pretty obvious where your sympathies lie.

    Sep 11th, 2018 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    TH
    TWO lies....yessir....all anyone has to do is go to the top of this thread....it's all there, black on white....

    More of your “30,000 people should be killed etc...” ?? are you nuts ? just asking. Strange how you presume whatever you want, without the slightest proof....or do you believe that if you post your crap enough times, you'll believe it yourself ?

    Sep 11th, 2018 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Finally got time to watch the video on Bolsonaro. The guy is clearly nuts, and dangerous too:

    “We should use torture devices on the central bank president.”

    “If I was President, I'd start a coup the same day.”

    “Doing the job the military dictatorship forgot to do: killing 30,000, starting with Fernando Henrique Cardoso.”

    He wasn't reacting to Lula, that was filmed when FHC was still President. And this is the guy the markets prefer as president? Clearly something is very wrong.

    Sep 11th, 2018 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    JB
    “TWO lies....”
    ”Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat (the burden of proof lies with who declares, not who denies)“
    “30,000 people should be killed etc...”
    http://www.brasilwire.com/bolsonaro-terrorist-by-definition/
    “Did you watch it? Here is Bolsonaro advocating unlawful violence and intimidation against an entire population.
    To close the congress. To kill 30 thousand. Even innocent civilians. Last time I checked, it fits on terrorism.”

    Sep 11th, 2018 - 10:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    If ever a person A deceives a person B into believing that something, p, is true, A knows or truly believes that p is false while causing B to believe that p is true. So when A deceives A (i.e., himself) into believing that p is true, he knows or truly believes that p is false while causing himself to believe that p is true. Thus, A must simultaneously believe that p is false and believe that p is true.

    Sep 11th, 2018 - 11:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Voice
    That's not difficult when person A is Terry. I had a long and fruitless argument with him where he ended up saying:

    “So while I'm unable to meet my burden, my assertion may still be the correct one, since there in no evidence too the contrary.”

    The assertion in question?

    “So if its 'truth' is unsupported, then it follows it cannot be true”

    Head met desk. That's when I realised he definitely isn't playing with a full deck.

    http://en.mercopress.com/2016/09/27/deutsche-bank-in-danger-zone-shares-down-50-this-year-and-sliding/comments#comment450984

    Sep 11th, 2018 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    DemonTree

    Amazing, I merely post this example of the static paradox of self delusion with no reference to anything or anyone and you immediately recognise who it is...;-)))

    Sep 11th, 2018 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    How sophists have been rebuffed.
    “So if its 'truth' is unsupported, then it follows it cannot be true...So while I'm unable to meet my burden, my assertion may still be the correct one, since there in no evidence too the contrary“. ”Here are two directly contradictory things”
    TH
    Its crystal clear, it's a comparison between BoP FACTS vis-à-vis OPINIONS, two different issues, i.e., apples and oranges.
    “It only pertains to opinions, not to issues of fact. As they should be easily provable. The only likely reason for such a refusal, is the party knows it's not true.”
    http:// en.mercopress.com/2016/09/27/deutsche-bank-in-danger-zone-shares-down-50-this-year-and-sliding/comments#comment450988
    “A fact is a statement that can be proven true, while an opinion is a statement that cannot be proven true. Facts can be confirmed by checking books or reliable internet sources” http://www.education.com/lesson-plan/can-you-prove-it-facts-and-opinions/
    Your claim of judgement vis-à-vis opinion as “Not one and the same” is clearly shown to be the reverse in this further clarification of the issue by this knowledgeable source: “Now one other note .. is the difference and uses between the term judgment in the United Kingdom and the term opinion in the United States. … Now from the House of Lords in the UK you would get a written judgment which would present the facts of the case and the court's rationale for reaching the judgment that they did reach on the particular matter. In the United States, the US Supreme Court would issue a similar document only it would be called an opinion, containing the same information, facts, rationale and ultimately the judgment or the holding in the particular matter before the court.” TransLegal; The Legal English Dictionary http://www.education.com/lesson-plan/can-you-prove-it-facts-and-opinions/ You keep lying and I keep schooling you. Game ….. Set ….. and …… Match.
    http://www.education.com/lesson-plan/can-you-prove-it-facts-and-opinions/

    Sep 12th, 2018 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    “And this is the guy the markets prefer as president? ”

    Not MY candidate...a few weeks ago I already mentioned I didn't think he was suitable for the job.....besides, he is just as radical, and incompetent, as Lula.

    In the 6th post above, TH states (another of his useless quotes) :
    ”JB
    “TWO lies....”
    ”Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat (the burden of proof lies with who declares, not who denies)“
    “30,000 people should be killed etc...”

    Well, it was TH who affirmed that ABO had a 'serious mental illness' and that he had 'no political affiliation' => his 1st post, way at the top i.e., : “... The truth of which is the attacker has suffered from a serious mental illness for a long time. He has no political affiliations, and was told by God....”.

    Based on TH's “Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat” or, ”the burden (of proof) lies with the person who declares,...”, I'm waiting for him to produce proof of his declarations....(I know he won't because he can't, but he WILL try to sidestep the issue and bullsh*t his way out of it....)

    I watched the video on Bolsonaro....shows nothing I didn't already know about him.

    What does TH expect to prove by insistently repeating Bolsonaro's comments on 'killing 30,000' ? .....he must be nuts.

    Sep 12th, 2018 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    JB
    “it was TH who affirmed that ABO had a 'serious mental illness'” No I didn't, what I reported was the FP spokesman said. “He has no political affiliations” because nothing had been reported at that time, otherwise I'd be like you who has never posted single proven fact ever. They are all your unproven personal opinions.
    Luis Boudens, president of the National Federation of Federal Police, told the AP that the assailant appeared to be deranged.
    “Our agents there said the attacker was 'on a mission from God,'” Boudens said. “Their impression is that they were not dealing with a mentally stable person. ...
    Earlier this week, Bolsonaro said during a campaign event that he would like to shoot...members of the leftist Workers' Party, which made da Silva its candidate”
    https://www. nbcnews.com/news/world/brazilian-candidate-stabbed-gets-hospital-almost-dead-n907311
    TH expect to prove by ...repeating Bolsonaro's comments on 'killing'
    Just pointing out where your claim of “I think there's a link between the political intolerance...” should be properly directed to one who is most culpable.

    Sep 12th, 2018 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Voice
    Yeah. And look at the ridiculous contortions he goes through to try and cover up the fact he claimed two obviously contradictory things. This is why I generally just admit it when I'm wrong about something, you look far more ridiculous and pathetic trying to deny it.

    @Terry
    You do realise that if you declare your idiotic statement to be an opinion and not a fact, that means it is merely your (ill informed) opinion that JB is lying about having an MBA? Exactly what we were all trying to tell you in the first place.

    @JB
    Yeah, *I* didn't think you supported Bolsonaro. Guess Terry - being crazy and clueless - does. Unless he has changed completely, B seems even more radical than Lula. Dunno how competent he is. It just amazes me the markets seem to prefer one radical to the other. Perhaps it's the triumph of hope over experience.

    Re your earlier points, shouldn't the workers also be angry with the wealthy businessmen who bribed the politicians? And with the oligarchs in the NE who seem to have the law in their pockets? Anyone rich enough can get away with a hell of a lot.

    And okay, you don't think Lula was responsible for the attack. Guess if he was 'stirring up the masses' that could have contributed, but Bolsonaro isn't exactly the representative of the elite. Would have made more sense to attack Alckmin or Meirelles in that case. So either ABO picked B because he was easier to get to, or maybe he objected to B's politics in particular. Since B has no problem calling for the murder of people he disagrees with, I don't know why he's complaining when someone applies the same logic to him. If I was gonna murder 30,000 people, he'd be on my list.

    Sep 12th, 2018 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    Obviously I never claimed otherwise, it's my opinion based on empirical experience. Which is that he already has been exposed as a consummate liar. The man hasn't got clue, and refuses to be guided by expected norms. Which if he had any training in higher education this would have been second nature. So to try and fluff off that he has two degrees is simply ludicrous.

    Sep 12th, 2018 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Sure, that's why you spent days trying to prove your idiotic misconception was true rather than admitting in the first place that it was just your opinion.

    But of course it's perfectly plausible JB has two degrees; I know lots of people who have one so I have a good idea of how smart you need to be. You obviously don't. Plus even if he was generally a liar, which he isn't, there is nothing stopping people with degrees from lying. Most politicians and all lawyers have degrees and they are not famous for their truthfulness.

    And don't quote your bloody study at me again. The smart people lied less but they still lied.

    Sep 12th, 2018 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    “Plus even if he was generally a liar, which he isn't” I have shown numerous times that he is, which I'm more than happy to resurrect. While you or he, can't even show one instance where he has met his BoP and substantiated any claim period. So now you have provided evidence that you are an accessory after the fact, and an aider and abettor.
    “trying to prove your idiotic misconception” No, I don't have to prove an opinion, it's the party that's making the claim of fact that bears that burden.

    Sep 13th, 2018 - 12:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    But Terry, just like you, everything Jack said is his opinion, therefore there is no BoP and he couldn't have been lying.

    Also, you can only be an accessory after the fact if a crime has been committed. Lying is not a crime, so your claim is nonsense.

    And back on topic, Trump has a degree in economics. Would you say he's an honest man?

    Sep 13th, 2018 - 06:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    “And don't quote your ...study at me again”
    You little Hitler, you don't get issue orders to anybody period.
    “everything Jack said is his opinion, therefore.... he couldn't have been lying.”
    Different accounts at different times constitutes lying. Making posts in favour of a return to a dictatorship, then denying he's a fascist. Lying about customary bathroom etiquette, when contradicted by independent sources are just two of many, many other examples.
    Your continued support of his wrong doing makes you an accessory(dictionary: abettor)

    Sep 13th, 2018 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Here's a new quote for you:

    “Godwin's Law
    A term that originated on Usenet, Godwin's Law states that as an online argument grows longer and more heated, it becomes increasingly likely that somebody will bring up Adolf Hitler or the Nazis. When such an event occurs, the person guilty of invoking Godwin's Law has effectively forfeited the argument.”

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Godwin%27s%20Law

    Congrats on forfeiting the argument with your patently absurd comparison.

    It's just your opinion that anything Jack has said makes him a fascist. Similarly, according to your 3rd grade understanding of opinion vs facts, there is no book saying whether he has a degree or not, so he can't prove it and it must be an opinion. Therefore he can't be a liar.

    And this is what the dictionary says about accessory:

    ”accessory noun (CRIMINAL)
    - someone who helps another person to commit A CRIME but does not take part in it”

    1. For the 2nd time, lying is not a crime.
    2. As I just showed above, he wasn't lying anyway.

    And you never answered my question about Trump. Are you gonna admit that people with degrees can tell lies (with gusto and panache), or are you gonna defend the liar-in-chief?

    Sep 13th, 2018 - 11:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    “And don't quote your bloody study at me again”
    If you don't like the comparison don't try and 'jack-boot' over others, as you have no authority to issue orders to anyone.
    Dictionary: ”abet - encourage or assist (someone) to do something wrong,...
    Origin: late Middle English (in the sense ‘urge to do something good or bad’): from Old French abeter, from a- (from Latin ad ‘to, at’) + beter ‘hound, urge on’.
    “It's just your opinion that anything Jack has said makes him a fascist.” No, he is condemned out of his own mouth.
    JB “Your insistence that I'm a fascist”
    Brazil's corruption scandals reach Lula da Silva: ...
    12 Jack Bauer; “..'Military dictatorship', ..history is showing,.. that it was good for Brazil
    50 Jack Bauer; “Military taking over again, ….. they did it to prevent Brazil from being handed over to the communists. ... the Military , I hope, would be there again to save Brazil
    Brazil remembers the 50th anniversary of the coupe…
    15 Jack Bauer; “..Am pretty sure that military are accompanying all this … I hope they DO take over...”
    JB “The military option was better than the communist”
    “Are you gonna...” Your issuing orders again mien Führer. “just showed above, he wasn't lying anyway.” Its blown out the water and shows you both as liars, and you as an abettor.

    Sep 13th, 2018 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    You sound like a two year old; “you can't tell me what to do!” Do you run home crying when the police or airport staff or a security guard gives you orders? It's not my problem you're so childish and insecure, and the fact you compared me to Hitler for such a stupid reason shows exactly how worthless your opinion on fascism is. Also, “are you gonna...” is a question, not an order, you mentally challenged mollusc.

    All those things you quoted about JB are nothing more than opinion. If you really think facts are what is written in books, find a book that says Jack Bauer is a fascist or fail to meet your BoP.

    “Dictionary: abet”

    Nice try, but you said I'm an “accessory after the fact, and an aider and abettor.” Unless you can prove all three, that means you lied.

    And since you have twice refused to answer the question on Trump, I will draw an adverse inference and conclude that you are wrong and you know it, but as per usual are unwilling to admit it. Another victory for truth over Terry.

    Speaking of being wrong, here's another thing for you to think about: when there is a crime, the court will try to establish facts about what happened. Does that mean the police go to the library and start looking for a book about it? No, they go out and investigate, interview people and look for clues. When the Innocence Project proved people were wrongly convicted, they didn't find a book saying “so-and-so is innocent”. Instead they used DNA tests or other evidence.

    Sep 13th, 2018 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    “Are you gonna...” Another fallacy of an 'and or' argument.
    “all those things you quoted about JB are nothing..” but his contradictions that show him for the liar he is.
    “is a question, not an order” jawoh.
    ”accessory - contributing to or aiding an activity or process
    aider - A person who, or thing which, provides aid or assistance; a helper; a help, support, or means of assistance.
    ”abet - encourage or assist (someone) to do something wrong,...
    Origin: late Middle English (in the sense ‘urge to do something good or bad’): from Old French abeter, from a- (from Latin ad ‘to, at’) + beter ‘hound, urge on’.“ Three out of three, bingo.
    ”...the question on Trump” one, I don't take orders, and two I don't trifle with off-topic absurdities.
    So you draw what ever inferences you wish, but there will no compliance on these grounds.

    Sep 13th, 2018 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    What contradictions? The only one saying contradictory things is you, as I've shown clearly.

    It's okay, I don't need your compliance. Your silence is revealing enough. I know I'm right, everyone reading knows I'm right, and the fact you refuse to answer shows clearly that you know it too. I've debunked your claims, and shown the childish absurdity of your beliefs about facts and opinions. Deny it all you like, it doesn't change the truth.

    As for this:

    “accessory - contributing to or aiding an activity or process”

    You're trying to move the goalposts again. You said 'accessory after the fact', and that is something with a very specialised definition. Not good enough.

    Sep 13th, 2018 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    “wrong - unjust, dishonest, or immoral: that was wrong ...”
    “You said 'accessory after the fact'” That is correct, as it's an impossibility to be an 'accessory before the fact', and you can only be one or the other.
    It's only my obligation to prove an assertion, since I have made no assertion concerning Trump, there is no onus on me.
    “I've debunked your claims.” Saying so doesn't make it so. Where is the where and the when?
    “What contradictions?” Ask, and you shall receive yet again. JB “Your insistence that I'm a fascist” versus Jack Bauer; “..Am pretty sure that military are accompanying all this … I hope they DO take over...”

    Sep 13th, 2018 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    “since I have made no assertion concerning Trump”

    Wrong. You said “Which is that [JB] already has been exposed as a consummate liar. The man hasn't got clue, and refuses to be guided by expected norms. Which if he had any training in higher education this would have been second nature.”

    Trump has training in higher education and yet he lies, refuses to be guided by expected norms, and appears to have no clue about many subjects a president needs to be informed on. Thus he disproves your claim that higher education prevents such things.

    “That is correct”

    Okay, so you admit you lied about me again. Also, it certainly is possible to be an accessory before the fact. You pretend to be interested in law yet don't know the most basic things...

    JB “Your insistence that I'm a fascist” versus Jack Bauer; “..Am pretty sure that military are accompanying all this … I hope they DO take over...”

    That's not contradictory at all. Many people supported the military and certainly they were not all fascists. JB has never denied saying and believing those things, so clearly he is not a liar.

    Incidentally, we can now see that the military are indeed watching events, and are showing worrying signs of interfering in politics.

    Sep 13th, 2018 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    “your claim that higher education prevents such things” What goggly gook bullshit. Since I have never made such a claim the only thing you've revealed is that your a liar. “so you admit you lied about me again” No I haven't so that's your second lie within the same post.
    “That's not contradictory” Give your head a shake, he denies being fascist yet wants the dictatorship back in power.
    “fascist - military dictatorship - absolute authority in any sphere.”
    How in God's name is it possible for you to be an accessory before the fact to JB's lying. That's one hell of a trick.

    Sep 13th, 2018 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @TH
    Me : “it was TH who affirmed that ABO had a 'serious mental illness'” ; cannot be denied.
    You : No I didn't, what I reported was the FP spokesman said. “He has no political affiliations” because nothing had been reported at that time......

    You have managed to sink even deeper into your own sh*t : With your statement, you confirmed each word that the “FP spokesman said”, as if you believed it were the irrefutable proof...the more you wiggle the deeper you sink ;

    You : “He has no political affiliations” because nothing had been reported at that time......”

    Well, if “nothing' had been reported at the time” (your words), then why did you state “he has no political affiliations” ? did you consult your crystal ball ?
    As to your other crazy 'presumptions', based on nothing but your stupidity, they aren't worth wasting time on .

    @DT
    B is not only radical, but appears to be not-too-well prepared to debate sensibly...he skims over complex issues as if a magic wand could solve them.....a bit like TH trying to bullsh*t his way out of his lies.

    Going back to 'angry workers', sure they got caught up in and participated in the corruption, but if those 'controlling' public contracts had never started 'auctioning' the projects to the highest briber, the contracts would go to the most competent contender, with the best cost/benefit ratio....but, if you ask the 'angry' workers who they think is to blame, without getting into ideology or party politics, their unamimous answer is : The politicians.
    The rich DO get away with a lot, and this includes politicians....who, imo, are bigger crooks than the businessmen. B became ABO's target because, as he confessed, he didn't agree with B's opinions. One thing is stupid rhetoric, another is acting on it.

    TH's flustered reaction “You little Hitler, you don't get issue orders to anybody period”, shows what a deranged, pathetic fool he is....in each post, he becomes more entangled in his own lies and contradictions

    Sep 13th, 2018 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    “your claim that higher education prevents such things” What goggly gook bullshit. Since I have never made such a claim the only thing you've revealed is that your a liar. “so you admit you lied about me again” No I haven't so that's your second lie within the same post.
    “That's not contradictory” Give your head a shake, he denies being fascist yet wants the dictatorship back in power.
    “fascist - military dictatorship - absolute authority in any sphere.”
    How in God's name is it possible for you to be an accessory before the fact to JB's lying. That's one hell of a trick.

    Sep 13th, 2018 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    “he skims over complex issues as if a magic wand could solve them”

    Oh dear. I never trust people who think complex problems have simple answers. Usually means they are either very ill informed or trying to pull the wool over your eyes.

    Makes sense the politicians are bigger crooks than the businessmen, but they're all still crooks. And if ABO objects to B's opinions in particular it probably doesn't have much to do with Lula. Has B ever acted on his rhetoric in the past or is he all mouth?

    TH is just like a child. Believes in nonsense, argues even when it's obvious he's lost, can't understand logic, obstinately refuses to do anything helpful, and has a tantrum if he thinks he's being told what to do.

    @TH
    I quoted you right there in the post: “Which is that [JB] already has been exposed as a consummate liar. The man hasn't got clue, and refuses to be guided by expected norms. Which if he had any training in higher education this would have been second nature.”

    And I've proved what you said is not true, because Trump is all those things despite having a degree.

    Re JB, it's just your opinion that that makes him a fascist, and your opinion isn't worth shit.

    As for being an accessory before the fact, you're just trying to distract from the fact you lied about me again. No need to say anything else, you're revealed as a liar and an idiot yet again.

    Sep 13th, 2018 - 07:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    “your claim that higher education prevents such things” What goggly gook bullshit. Since I have never made such a claim the only thing you've revealed is that your a liar. “so you admit you lied about me again” No I haven't so that's your second lie within the same post.
    “That's not contradictory” Give your head a shake, he denies being fascist yet wants the dictatorship back in power.
    “fascist - military dictatorship - absolute authority in any sphere.”
    How in God's name is it possible for you to be an accessory before the fact to JB's lying. That's one hell of a trick.

    Sep 13th, 2018 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    Let's forget TH's bs for a moment - or for good - and get down to what matters. He's not worth his weight in crap.

    B has never done much of anything in the past, action wise, or project wise....his discourse seems to have roused those at the other extreme, who are fed up with the leftist bs and populism...I too am fed up with it, but have enough sense to realize that Bolsonaro is not the right man for the job....more radical sh*t will not get Brazil out of the quagmire.

    Sep 13th, 2018 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    I think we broke Terry, he's got stuck in a loop.

    Re B, don't know if it's good or bad that he hasn't done much of anything, given the kind of things he says. They're comparing him to Trump, but I'm worried he'd be more like Duterte if he was elected. Unfortunately, voters are being attracted to radical candidates due to the corruption scandals around the more established politicians, and probably the continuing economic problems too.

    Sep 14th, 2018 - 09:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • :o))

    News BEHIND the news?!?
    https://marceloauler.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/images.Conex%C3%A3oPB.com_.br_.jpg

    Sep 14th, 2018 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    There is nowhere I've claimed “that higher education prevents such things” its purely your invention. What I stated again is “if he had any training in higher education this would have been second nature.”
    Whereas he doesn't have clue, which is self-evident. So you can't refute that you and he are liars. Nor can you refute the words that are synonymous with your behaviour
    accessory, aider, abettor. “I've proved what you said is not true” Rubbish, since I have never stated what claim, period.
    “argues even when it's obvious he's lost” So you claim, but provide no proof.
    “I quoted you right there in the post” Doesn't claim what you state. In fact, Trump supports my contention. He was enrolled at a private college and certainly paid for a degree, but I doubt if merited one, as he's an absolute moon.
    “it's just your opinion that that makes him a fascist” No it's not, its own words that clearly condemned him.
    “you lied about me again.” Every word correctly describes your behaviour.

    Sep 14th, 2018 - 11:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • :o))

    REF: “attack could bolster his chances”:

    http://blogdoaftm.web2419.uni5.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/1827-820x615.jpg

    Sep 14th, 2018 - 12:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    JB
    “you confirmed each word that the “FP spokesman said... why did you state “he has no political affiliations” ”
    Exatamente, as I have no evidence, or belief to contrary, otherwise I'd be like you.
    ”trying to blame Bolsonaro for the attack.” I'm not I.m just pointing out that Lula who has proffered no violence has no culpability. Whereas, Bolsonaro by your own criteria is certainly more liable. “He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword”.
    http://en.mercopress.com/2018/09/04/bye-bye-lula/comments#comment492424

    Sep 14th, 2018 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • :o))

    While many are intrigued by the “whodunit”:
    https://www.diariodaregiao.com.br/_midias/jpg/2018/01/10/charge11x01x18-901308.jpg

    Sep 14th, 2018 - 03:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    Not surprised B is being compared to Trump, but looks like he might well be closer to Duterte...; every word TH writes is BS.


    @TH
    “Exactly, as I have no evidence...”
    You had no evidence (that what the FP spokesman supposedly said was true), yet it didn't prevent you from categorically stating (on Friday 7th, the day AFTER the attack): “The truth of which is the attacker has suffered from a serious mental illness for a long time. He has no political affiliations”, as if it were FACT.

    Now, let's see...you posted your statement on Friday 7th, based on what you allege Major Flávio Santiago (the FP spokesman) said - that ABO had no political affiliation - but 3 or 4 hours after the stabbing (on Thursday 6th), the OESP and other media had ALREADY reported that ABO had been affiliated to the PSOL between 2007 -14. So, on the 7th, the news on the attack ‘n ABO's affiliation to the PSOL was 1 day old...and public knowledge ….nevertheless, you went ahead ‘n stated ABO had ‘no affiliation’ (implying 'never').

    Am asking because 1st, it’s unlikely the spokesman would have said that without checking the facts, and 2) it looks like you might be trying to credit the PF spokesman with saying something he didn’t, but which you conveniently 'presumed'...
    Was it because shortly after the stabbing it was rumored that ABO belonged to the PT, and you wanted to misguide everyone as to his political preference ? (same as yours).

    At the moment, you are looking more n more like the habitual liar that you are.

    Sep 14th, 2018 - 07:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    JB
    “you from categorically stating....” The best available evidence that I had seen. “other media had ALREADY reported” You've got it Pontiac, I hadn't seen such a report. It certainly wasn't on Google News when I checked.
    “it looks like” that would be your incorrect presumption.
    “Was it because” no it's as I stated, there was no report on Google News about any political affiliation.
    “At the moment...” unlike you I'm looking pretty good, as you can't show any any intent on my part to deceive, like you do.

    Sep 14th, 2018 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @TH
    Oh, now it's Google News' fault.....I suppose it's the only news source in the world....and I'm not talking of a difference of minutes between the time that the 'facts' were available (6th) and when 'your lies' were posted (7th), but 15 hours.....“só conversa p´ra boi dormir...”

    Sep 14th, 2018 - 08:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    Terry would hardly have been reading OESP, he doesn't speak Portuguese. I had seen nothing in the English language media about ABO's political affiliation when he posted. It looks like he fell for a basic fallacy: that absence of evidence is evidence of absence. The news didn't mention ABO's political affiliation at that point because little time had passed and they hadn't had time to find out yet, and it was very foolish to assume that meant he didn't have one.

    @TH
    You're splitting hairs. You said “if he had any training in higher education this would have been second nature.” Well, Trump has training in higher education and clearly hasn't a clue, so you're wrong.

    Wharton is a real university, and by all accounts Trump was a mediocre student. His father surely used his influence to get him in there, but no reason to think he didn't get his degree in the usual way. However, if you don't like Trump as an example, Temer has a PhD in law. No doubt he'd eat you for breakfast (with both hands tied behind his back), but he's not exactly a model of honesty. Or another example, former MP Jonathan Aitken has a degree in law from Oxford University, and was convicted of perjury. Education is no guarantee of honesty or anything else. Though since JB has an MBA and Trump doesn't, does that make JB smarter than Trump?

    Actually there is something I'm wondering. I also told you I have a degree, how come you've never accused me of lying about it?

    Sep 14th, 2018 - 08:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t, but in the absence of evidence, he thought he could invent his own. He’ll never admit it, but it’s very clear. ABO's affiliation to the PSOL was all over the evening news....how long can it take for that kind of news to reach the outer world ? Am pretty sure that the assassination attempt spread with the speed of light...


    Referring to the Federal Regulation agencies you asked me about a couple of weeks ago and which I didn't have room to answer…

    ”That's pretty depressing, seems you're screwed either way. What's wrong with the agencies?”

    The agencies are supposed to defend the consumer against abuses of big business, including government concessions for certain services, but what we see is the agencies defending the companies. Just about every time an issue arises and needs regulating, the consumer defense organizations are obliged to intervene to avoid absurd rules being approved . An ex: The directors of the ANSS (Health agency that regulates private health plans) all come from the Insurance companies….during their tenures they try to pass regulations favoring the companies in flagrant prejudice to the consumer (such as raising fees to absurd levels, restricting coverage etc), then they return to the private sector as ‘benefactors’…they all work the same way.

    Sep 14th, 2018 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    “how long can it take for that kind of news to reach the outer world?”

    BBC article from 7th September says only:

    “Police said a suspect had been arrested, naming him as Adelio Obispo de Oliveira, 40. Officials quoted by Reuters news agency said he appeared to be mentally disturbed.”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-45441447

    BBC article from 8th September has already been posted and mentioned the suspect's former affiliation with PSOL. However, your evening news is late at night in Europe; no surprise the BBC didn't publish the update until the following day. I don't know if US or Canadian websites got it out sooner, but since Terry posted prematurely he couldn't update his comment.

    Re the agencies, sounds like a more egregious version of a problem we have too. Anyone with the qualifications and experience to work for an agency naturally has strong ties to the industry and likely intends to return to work in it afterwards. It's a huge conflict of interest, and it sucks for consumers.

    Sep 14th, 2018 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    JB
    “now it's...” Truth is no fault.
    There's no lies, as you would be the last person I would emulate. Thats why you can show no proof.
    DT
    “that absence of evidence..”, right on Pontiac you can't make inverse assumptions based on nothing.
    Great you've made an assumption that “has training in higher education” but you can proffer no proof, and Trump is about as reliable source as JB is.
    I have never claimed that higher education means honesty, that's just your sophistry. The issue is that JB has only one way of dealing with an issue, which is to lie. He is incapable of proving any assertion, which is pretty hard to do if you're claiming two degrees and an MBA, haha.

    Sep 14th, 2018 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    I can't even tell what you're trying to say here, and it's not my problem. You clearly did list lying as one reason to disbelieve JB has a degree, but if you've changed your mind, that's great. Besides, you still haven't shown that JB lied about anything, and you have no idea what the requirements for an MBA are, since you've never had any kind of higher education. Since I studied both maths and physics, I can tell you that maths was all about proving things, but physics was not. It was about understanding the theories and being able to apply them to solve problems and predict results, and for the pure physicists, doing experiments that would hopefully agree with the theory. I imagine economics would be fairly similar to physics, without the experiments and with less agreement on which theory is correct, but I have no idea what an MBA covers.

    Perhaps JB can tell us.

    Sep 15th, 2018 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    JB
    “The agencies are supposed to defend the consumer...”
    DT
    “Anyone with the qualifications and experience to work for an agency naturally has strong ties to the industry ...”

    Those two paragraphs in my opinion, are right on the money.
    “I can't even tell what you're trying to say here...” my response is to what you have written in quotation marks, how soon you forget.
    “haven't shown JB lied about anything” I have on innumerable occasions, with the last showing his contradictions over his love of military dictatorships, revealing your untruthfulness and abetting. “since you've never had any kind of higher education” I had three years, but I don't feel the need to puff myself about it.
    In science, engineering, humanities, law, maths, medicine, et al all require assertions be proved. I guess he must have missed that part in his quest for higher knowledge, chortle, chortle.

    Sep 15th, 2018 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Three years of higher education? Now that I do find hard to believe. What subject were you supposedly studying? If you're telling the truth then I would guess you went to some kind of technical college that did not require much essay writing or thinking for yourself.

    If you had studied any of the subjects you mentioned, you'd know the correct terminology. In maths one proves theorems, and maths is really the only subject in which anything can be definitively proved. In the sciences people form hypotheses, and do experiments to confirm or disprove them. If there is enough evidence, the hypothesis becomes a theory, but it is never proved and theories can always be superseded by new ones; eg Newtonian physics with general relativity. But undergrad students won't be doing their own original research anyway, they are learning the existing theories and how to solve problems, and when they do experiments they are standard ones where the results are supposed to match the book.

    In medicine students are learning all about the human body and how it can go wrong, as well as practical skills of diagnosis and treatment. What do you imagine they would be proving?

    The humanities are probably the closest to your idea of university education, but judging by the quality of your arguments on here, you'd fail immediately. In any case, JB studied economics, so it's irrelevant what history students learn.

    If you want I can show you a proof in maths, however, not only you but most other people wouldn't understand it, or have any interest in learning.

    Sep 15th, 2018 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    “Now that I do find hard to believe” Hard cheese, I learn't enough to run rings round your's and JB's dishonesty.
    So back to the issue at hand, you or JB can't redeem him. So he is exposed for all world to see him, as he really is.
    “but judging by the quality of your arguments on here, you'd fail immediately.” Well I didn't there, and I have haven't failed here.

    Sep 15th, 2018 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    “I learn't enough to run rings round your's and JB's dishonesty”

    Lol, what a pity you didn't learn to spell and write coherently while you were at it. It's hard to believe you even finished school writing like that. If you ever do go to university I can just imagine what your courses will be:

    Arrogance 101
    Selective quoting 111
    Anti-logic for the deranged
    Fallacies for dummies - but you failed that one.
    Old-timey insults 201
    Self-delusion 330 (expert level)

    You're wise not to pick a subject to pretend to have studied. It's so easy to get info on the internet these days that we'd soon find you out.

    Sep 15th, 2018 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    Whine and opine, but no one is interested in what a nobody sore loser has say.

    Sep 15th, 2018 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    Today's MBA is probably quite different to that of 40 odd years ago (very likely more specialized, due to the greater amount of knowledge to be absorbed) , and was known as a 'post-graduate' course (which presumes you needed a bachelor's degree to take one). I reckon the course I took would be the closest to today's “business management” ; Briefly, it involved learning the inner-workings of a company, top to bottom, leadership tecniques, learning personal communications skills, testing theory in practise, planning and execution, and delving a bit deeper into a few subjects taught in the graduate courses, such as corporate finances etc...and at the end, had to present a thesis.

    Getting back to Bolsonaro, what you say about the time zone regarding EU, you're right, but Eastern Canada is 2 hours behind SP...
    Hill gets so confused in his lies that his posts are gibberish, making it hard to follow any logical sequence.

    In yr 2nd post abv, you told TH “he still hadn't shown JB lied about anything”, to which he replied ”I have on innumerable occasions, with the last showing his contradictions over his love of military dictatorships”.....(???) . let's break this down: 1st, I never said I 'loved' military dictatorshipS, even more so because I've only lived under ONE...and it was not a matter of choice; 2nd, even if I did 'love' military dictatorships, which I don't, how would expressing my feelings about the military constitute a lie ? If you state that you like, or dislike eating liver, how d'you prove it ?

    Then he claims he had “3 years of higher education”....maybe he did carry on for 3 years after highschool...but it hardly sounds like a fully-fledged college degree...hope he doesn't choke on his “chortle, chortle”...just imagine him snorting like a sick pig..disgusting.

    Nice to see you tear his little fantasy of having a college degree, apart. In reply he says “hard cheese”.....well, that would be considered 'proof', where ? only in TH's fantasy world.

    Sep 15th, 2018 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Your course sounds quite practical and useful, designed to teach the skills and knowledge you'd need in management. What was your thesis on?

    Re Bolsonaro, I found this which is dated the 7th and mentions ABO's affiliation:

    www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jair-bolsonaro_uk_5b92438be4b0cf7b003e9205

    But no reason to think Terry saw it when it was published (I didn't). He just jumped to conclusions prematurely because he's not too smart.

    MP finally switched back to showing the date and time of his comment:

    ”Sep 08th, 2018 - 01:49 am (GMT)”

    SP is GMT - 3, so would have been 7th Sep, 22:49 there.

    As for the military dictatorships, Terry believes if you love them then you must be a fascist, and since you denied being one he thinks you're lying. Also explains his assumption that you would support Bolsonaro - he pays more attention to his own warped logic than what you have actually said.

    Maybe he went to further education college for three years to try and get his high school diploma, or whatever they have in Canada? People do that here if they fail their GCSEs, and you can also take A levels there. He never said he has a degree; in fact, don't degrees take four years in Canada?

    Terry's 'hard cheese' just makes me think of this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwv4cnhBMTw

    The power of advertising!

    Sep 15th, 2018 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    BJ
    “you tear his little fantasy of having” two degrees and an MBA, and I'm the Queen of Sheba. Was that the result of sheer stupidity or were drinking as well?
    “well, that would be considered 'proof',” I'm the respondent so there is no obligation to support him in “moving goal-posts' away from the original issue.
    DT
    ”He just jumped to conclusions prematurely“, Unlike JB I write about what I have proof for rather speculating.
    ”don't degrees take four years in Canada?” ordinary degree takes three years, an honours takes four.

    Sep 15th, 2018 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    It's much easier to believe that you're the Queen of Sheba than that you have a degree. I just looked it up, and found a site saying undergraduate degrees in Canada can take either three or four years to complete, depending on the university. But you still haven't claimed to have one, so I suppose you went to a community college and did a vocational course. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't give you any knowledge of what an MBA involves.

    You had no proof when you wrote that the attacker had no political affiliations. All you could have truthfully said at the time was that you didn't know of any, which is far from being the same thing. You made a mistake, just admit it and move on, it's not a big deal.

    Sep 15th, 2018 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    “and since you denied being one he thinks you're lying” Sorry, your argument is summarily dismissed, as the correct way it is viewed is as follows.
    ”however, it is considered a fallacy to make contradictory claims. People call it arguing out of both sides of your mouth,“ The Purposeful Argument: A Practical Guide By Harry Phillips, Patricia Bostian.
    Is not only completely unprincipled but estopped (barred) in law; Allegans contraria non est audiendus (Jenk. Cent. 16): “He is not to be heard who alleges things contradictory to each other.” This elementary rule of logic expresses, in technical language, the saying that a man shall not be permitted to “blow hot and cold” with reference to the same transaction, or insist, at different times, on the truth of each of two conflicting allegations, according to the promptings of his private interest. Says the Satyr, if you have gotten a trick of blowing hot and cold out of the same mouth, I've e'en done“ with ye. en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Legal_counsel
    I can't state as to what someone's political preferences are without evidence. Otherwise, I would be just like you and JB

    Sep 15th, 2018 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Lol, he thinks it's illegal to say two contradictory things. What an idiot, if that was true he'd be in jail.

    Also, he's clearly trying to change the subject since it was a little too clear that I'm right.

    Sep 15th, 2018 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    The thesis was on how to improve communication within a company... I had the opportunity to spend a few weeks at the company my father had been employed by, be guided by several department managers, taking note of practices, and then trying to discover and suggest ways to improve them.

    It's clear TH jumped the gun...
    ”MP finally switched back to showing the date and time of his comment:
    ”Sep 08th, 2018 - 01:49 am (GMT)”

    SP is GMT - 3, so would have been 7th Sep, 22:49 there.“

    That is correct, but the news was available here at 17:28 on the 6th Sep (google ”Esfaqueador de Bolsonaro foi do PSOL - Política - Estadão”).

    TH's “I can't state as to what someone's political preferences are without evidence”, is interesting....he has no evidence, yet he does....Perhaps Freud could have explained his obtuseness.

    TH's logic of twisting and turning while trying to wiggle out of his lies, insisting that he and only he is always right, that everyone else, who doesn't agree with him, must be a liar, is quite amusing....it's a pity it's not intentional, but the sign of a demented person.

    I wonder it he'd be capable of doing something as complicated as ordering a hamburger at McDonald's......if he could, and before biting into it - provided he still has some teeth left in his 'head' - he'd probably demand that the attendant prove what he was given was a hamburger...

    Sep 15th, 2018 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    “explains his assumption that you would support Bolsonaro” I have never made such an assumption, that is completely untrue.
    “it's illegal to say two contradictory things.” What I have shown is “it is considered a fallacy” thus,“is not only completely unprincipled but ...”. Which since you now admit JB has stated contradictions. Is irrefutable evidence that he is a liar by the the accepted criteria.
    JB
    “has no evidence, yet he does.” You're an out and out liar as I've done no such thing. But paragraph above is the measure of your behaviour.
    “ must be a liar, is quite amusing”. Which I have shown innumerable times you to be. Which, is confirmation that you are a thoroughly amoral person, but that is to expected of proven fascist.

    Sep 15th, 2018 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    Did the company adopt any of your suggestions to improve communication?

    “he has no evidence, yet he does”

    Yeah. It's amazing how completely unconscious he is about his own behaviour. Everything is rationalised inside his mind to make him out to be perfect and others look bad, to the point it bears no resemblance to reality.

    @TH
    Suuuuure you didn't. That's why you posted a link to B's interview and then said to Jack “Pretty obvious where your sympathies lie.”

    Who cares if it's considered a fallacy or not, your quotes are pointless because JB hasn't said anything contradictory. The only one contradicting themself is you.

    Sep 16th, 2018 - 12:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    “said to Jack “Pretty obvious where your sympathies lie.”“
    Well, it's not pretty obvious where this is supposed to have occurred, and I don't have any such recollection.
    ”JB hasn't said anything contradictory.”
    Well, here's a doozy
    http://en.mercopress.com/2018/09/07/brazilian-leading-presidential-candidate-stabbed-and-in-serious-condition-attack-could-bolster-his-chances/comments#comment492403

    Sep 16th, 2018 - 12:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Do 'find in page' in your browser - look it up if you don't know how - and type in the words I quoted. That will take you to your comment, since your memory is too poor (or rather too selective) to remember what you wrote 4 days ago.

    As for your link, none of that is contradictory, it's all quite consistent.

    Sep 16th, 2018 - 12:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    JB
    “none of that is contradictory, it's all quite consistent.”
    “Your insistence that I'm a fascist” If he is implying he's not, then he is contradicted by his next sentence. He most certainly is not claiming that he is in fact, a fascist. So there is only one possible conclusion to reach. Is that he is contradicted by the second one.
    15 Jack Bauer; “..Am pretty sure that military are accompanying all this … I hope they DO take over...”
    In conclusion, you cannot avoid the irrefutable evidence that you're also, clearly revealed as a liar.

    As to “look it up” No, you meet your burden of proof, as there is absolutely no obligation on my part to do a thing.

    Sep 16th, 2018 - 01:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    He's not contradicted by his next sentence at all. He says he hopes the military take over, not that he's a fascist.

    Re the MBA, if you want to find out how hard it is, there's a quiz here:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationquestions/10339180/MBA-applications-can-you-pass-the-GMAT-quiz.html

    The maths questions are pretty straightforward if you know your stuff. The word ones were kind of confusing but I went with my instincts.

    As for your comment, I'm on my phone so I CAN'T link directly to it. I will give a link to the page it's on, since you're so obsessed with links:

    en.mercopress.com/2018/09/07/brazilian-leading-presidential-candidate-stabbed-and-in-serious-condition-attack-could-bolster-his-chances/comments

    There, quote and link, so I've clearly met my BoP and you can start your usual sophism, pretending that what you wrote doesn't mean what it clearly does.

    Sep 16th, 2018 - 10:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    “He's not contradicted by his next sentence ...” Oh yes he is as any objective observer can see by evaluating the facts that I have shown. Against these facts all you can proffer is your unsupported opinion.
    The fact is described as the statement that can be verified or proved to be true. Opinion is an expression of judgment or belief about something.
    Fact relies on observation or research while opinion is based on assumption.
    The fact is an objective reality whereas opinion is a subjective statement.
    Facts can be verified with the help of evidence or statistics. On the contrary, opinion is not supported by any evidence.
    Facts explain what actually happened. Unlike an opinion, that represents a perception about something.
    One important feature of the fact is that it is universal and does not differ from person to person. As against this, every human being has a different opinion on a particular subject and so, it varies from one person to another.
    Facts are shown with unbiased words, however, opinion is expressed with biased words.
    Facts can change anybody

    Sep 16th, 2018 - 04:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Terry, you are wasting your time vomiting the dictionary on to Mercopress. Posting references for such a simple and obvious thing just makes you look even dumber. You'd be a lot better off if you would read and understand those definitions instead of merely copying and pasting them.

    As usual you've missed the point: your argument has a gaping hole in it. You are claiming that Jack's support of the military government makes him a fascist, and you have completely failed to prove this.

    And even if some people would agree with your opinion, it still doesn't make Jack a liar; since he obviously does not believe himself to be a fascist, he is simply telling the truth as he sees it.

    Sep 16th, 2018 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    I really don't know....I did discuss some my ideas with a few of the managers, but : 1) being a multinational, in which things virtually ran by themselves, and (back then) I think few people questioned procedures (or even felt they had to) and 2) I had a feeling the managers, being animals of habit (and used to following the instruction manual), would not be too receptive to the 'ideas' of someone with virtually no experience...Anyway, am pretty sure they did not get a copy of it. I was just pleased that the examining panel approved it.

    In a court of law, if TH used his usual arguments, such as taking what a witness said and quoting it out of context...“..Am pretty sure that military are accompanying all this … I hope they DO take over...”, or when challenged to back up a statement , he said ”I don't have any such recollection“, he'd lose his case ; he tries to imply for example, that ”I hope they DO take over...” was said as an 'absolute' wish, in relation to nothing, and not as a choice in view of an alternative percieved as worse....

    TH's “Against these facts all you can proffer is your unsupported opinion”.....same old sh*t, post after post....his “opinions” are facts, yours are “your unsupported opinion”

    And he considers himself an “objective observer”.......amazing how his warped mind works.

    “Fact relies on observation or research while opinion is based on assumption.”.....“that's” a new definition....I always thought an opinion was formed based on “observation”, and that a fact was something that has actually happened or has been proved......and “assumption” is what he said about ABO having a serious mental illness, and having no political affilliation...

    “Facts can be verified with the help of evidence or statistics”....really ? and what about when stats are manipulated ? but if “Facts can be verified with the help of evidence”, then I suppose he is contadicting himself regarding his belief that Lula is as innocent as a new born baby...

    Sep 16th, 2018 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    “you are wasting your time” Hardly, since I have the facts to nail the issue down. While, you're still floundering around immersed in your own self-serving opinion.
    “You are claiming that Jack's support of the military government makes him a fascist” No shit Batman.
    “Facts can be verified with the help of evidence or statistics. On the contrary, opinion is not supported by any evidence.”
    JB
    ”Am pretty sure that military are accompanying all this … I hope they DO take over...”, Your admission.
    A claim that I stated something requires meeting the BoP. If you require a citation I'm more than willing to supply it.
    They're not my opinions, since they're statements you have written, and are thus incontestable facts.
    You and your buddy are totally revealed to all and sundry, you're like emperors with no clothes.
    https://keydifferences.com/difference-between-fact-and-opinion.html

    Sep 16th, 2018 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    Suppose you're right about how much the managers would want to take advice from someone with little experience. Even so, it's usually people who are new to a team or process who are best able to spot improvements. When you have been doing the same job for a while, you get used to doing things a certain way and don't question it or wonder if there is a better one. Most of the teams I have worked for recognised this and encouraged people to suggest improvements, at least to a certain extent. Perhaps that's true in Brazil as well, these days.

    What did you think of that MBA entry quiz I linked to? Easy? Or does it make you glad you don't have to do it all again today?

    TH would be eaten alive if he was in court. He'd be like those 'sovereign citizen' nutters who think if they say some magic words they can get out of paying their taxes, and the laws don't apply to them. Here's an amusing video of one getting tased for trying to enter a courtroom illegally:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfVbiefMdNU

    I never read Terry's quotes, they're usually gibberish he's repeated 100 times already. Talking now to someone more sensible, I'd say there are different kinds of opinions. Some are completely subjective, eg 'olives taste good', and can't be proved. But it's also possible to have an opinion on a factual matter, eg 'OJ is guilty', but be unable to prove it. It's not a problem unless you stupidly insist your opinion is the objective truth.

    As for his quote of you, what was the alternative that made you want the military to take over? There's nothing nearly so bad as a communist takeover likely to happen today.

    @TH
    You admit you are claiming that JB's statement makes him a fascist, but that is nothing but your unsupported opinion. He never said he's a fascist. It's your BoP, and you have given NO evidence. Get nailing, Robin.

    Sep 16th, 2018 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    “TH would be eaten alive if he was in court.”
    No I've represented my self and others in various courts and tribunals, both civil and criminal. Was always able to gain an acquittal for myself.
    “But it's also possible ..” semantics are not going to save your sorry ass, you've lost get over it.
    “as a communist takeover likely to happen” Bullshit, it was never going to happen.
    “Inconveniently, the US can point to nothing even remotely threatening done by the Brazilian Communist Party, and early in 1964, Russian leader Khrushchev refuses even token financial aid to Goulart, not wishing to tangle with the US over the country.” Brazil Herald, 3/6/64
    “The best way to win an argument is to begin by being right.” Jill Ruckeshaus, Saturday evening Post, March 3, 1973

    Sep 16th, 2018 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Nice try changing the subject. Are you going to meet your burden of proof or not?

    “Was always able to gain an acquittal for myself.”

    What were you accused of?

    Sep 16th, 2018 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT
    “Are you going to meet your burden of proof..” If I hadn't you should able show, but obviously you can't.
    “What were you accused of...” Three times of violating the highway code.

    Sep 16th, 2018 - 10:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    “it's usually people who are new to a team or process who are best able to spot improvements”

    True...if you are already used to something, your tendency is to not rock the boat.

    I didn't have to take any admission test...the company asked if I'd like to take the course and offered to pay....feeling my future at the company depended on it, I said yes.
    To be honest with you, the course was interesting, and I took it in my stride, but nowadays I wouldn't want to go through it again...I've come to value my free time which allows me to do only what I like. Anyway, a few weeks after finishing the course, I left the company....it seemed a bit of a dead end to me. Strangely enough, even my manager supported my decision.

    Likening TH to a sovereign citizen is quite appropriate....'when he says “...but it doesn't apply to me..”, hit the nail on the head...TH's stupid principles apply to everyone but himself.

    Regarding the quote he keeps on posting, to be honest I can't remember...It can't refer to the 60s, 'cause then I wouldn't have said “I hope they DO take over”, referring to the future...it was probably some reaction to Lula's unhealthy friendship with the Chavez's and the Castros of this life, and the Foro de SP....but I'm sure TH can tell me in which context I said it, even though he prefers to ignore it (the context).

    “Was always able to gain an acquittal for myself.”.....was probably in some small claims court...isn't all that complicated, but he was probably charged with trying to beat up some old lady who didn't agree with him..TH is fake news.

    Sep 16th, 2018 - 11:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    JB
    “trying to beat up some old lady” Would be assault under the criminal code, not an alleged violation of the highway code.
    So I guess you two idiots have realised how stupid you are trying to defend the indefensible.

    Sep 16th, 2018 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @TH
    So, having failed to meet your burden of proof, it is obvious that you are talking crap as usual and JB is NOT a liar.

    Also, you haven't given a link for your quote about JB “I hope they DO tke over”. According to you, this makes you a fraud.

    What did you do to violate the highway code?

    @JB
    Sounds like a sensible decision to take the course, especially with the company paying. Although not such a great idea for them since you left immediately afterwards. And I can understand not wanting to do it again, it wouldn't be useful now and it's not the sort of course you'd do for fun. I guess some people do research etc out of interest, but taking exams and doing theses is just unnecessary stress unless you want the qualification.

    I'm surprised TH isn't a sovereign citizen, or into some kind of conspiracy theory. The level of delusion and rationalisation is very similar, twisting everything to try and get the result he wants.

    Sep 16th, 2018 - 11:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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