MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Typhoons were flown non-stop to the Falklands with support from ten aircraft
Senior officers from the Royal Air Force have paid tribute to squadrons across Britain following the successful deployment of four Euro-fighter Typhoons to the Falkland Islands. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesTyphoons 30 minutes away from Tierra del Fuego...
Oct 26th, 2009 - 09:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0typhoons wipe out half of Tierra del Fuego in 30 minutes. ha ha
Oct 26th, 2009 - 09:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now they are preparing to invade our antartic land and put another colony and wash their brains to make them believe the idea of selfdetermination 100 years later. This people is terrible!
Oct 27th, 2009 - 05:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Okay Typhoons are an excellent A/C, but it seems a huge logistic effort to move just 4 A/C all that way. What would happen if hostilities broke out?
Oct 27th, 2009 - 06:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Trust me, if hostilities broke out, you wouldnt need more aircrafts than these.
Oct 27th, 2009 - 11:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Cheers.
No you can keep Tierra del Fuego, but you aint getting the Falklands Back. but you cant realy count on that little spell you had it in 82 anyway.
Oct 27th, 2009 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Luis said we “wouldnt need any more aircrafts than these”.
Oct 27th, 2009 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He's quite right. Argentine equipment is now so out of date, much of it dating back to before 1982, that only 4 Typhoons would probably be more than enough of a deterrent...
I wonder if they know we have old equipment in our forces, why they still bring those things here. That is an insult to all southamerican countries. I hope unasur debate this issue as soon as possible. I think our government need to spend more money to update our forces, specially medium and long range missiles because you never know with this people!
Oct 27th, 2009 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So how were you expecting the UK to protect the Falklands Jorge? I think 4 Typhoons is a small number, the minimum possible. The UK is not looking for war, but simply trying to deter Argentina from invading again. I don't expect you to understand that, but it's a fact.
Oct 28th, 2009 - 01:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0I didn't realise you represented all of South America. Does that include French Guyana?
If you think your government needs to spend more on arms, then go ahead, write to your diputado or whatever and tell them your opinion. You live in a democracy don't you? I'm sure if there is any money left after corruption has taken its slice then your government might buy a few second-hand Mausers or something.
Its a pleasure to see them in the sky here. 4 is the normal basic minimum credible 24hr air defence. Not offensive, purely defensive and to send a clear signal to any HardLiners - dont try anything silly. The logistics excercise getting them here - likewise a simple signal- dont ever be silly as any time within 24hours we could send a lot more. If S America sees them as a threat to the region - one very simple answer - quietly drop the claim and Eurofighters,Destroyers,Nuclear Powered Subs etc will all likewise quietly dissapear from here.
Oct 28th, 2009 - 09:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Remember Jorge you started it and we finished it. you dont want to embarrass your self again do you. Britan has the hardest and most capable forces in the world. with years fighting in Iraq & Afghanistan ,you would be no contest.
Oct 28th, 2009 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0khh you must be very proud to be in Iraq and Afghanistan, to blow up things, to torture civilians in clandestine prisions, to dissapears people as happened in our dictatorship.
Oct 28th, 2009 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0J.A. Roberts, UK is looking for a war, they always did since 1833 and in 1982 they reached their goal. I recommend you to read celso amorin's opinions and see what brazil thinks about foreign forces here. It is not just argentina. Brazil wants to be a global power and the presence of your criminal and facist forces there annoys it so much. Different motivations but the same goal, get you out of there. And of course we live in a democracy unlike you crown subject!
Oct 29th, 2009 - 02:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Islander, are you out of your mind? Do you still believe we're gonna drop our claim? That will not happen until you sit to negotiate about sovereignty and I certainly think you will have no option. You will do it some day.
Cheers
Jorge,
Oct 29th, 2009 - 07:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0You're full of nonsense.
Britain does not and never has sought a war.
In 1833, Britain did everything to avoid an armed confrontation. In 1982, Argentina invaded, trying to blame Britain for that is simply ridiculous.
Britain was prepared to sit and negotiate on sovereignty. Not because there was any doubt about Britain's sovereignty. The Falklands weren't important to Britain, they were difficult to support and they were prepared to transfer sovereignty to Argentina if the Falkland Islanders agreed. They didn't, they preferred to remain British and given the policies pursued by Argentina that they did so is perfectly understandable.
And the Falkland Islands are a democracy, they were more democratic than Argentina. Their Government is THEIR choice.
Britain maintains a small force in the South Atlantic, that is totally defensive in nature. It exists purely to deter further Argentine aggression and your posts amongst others clearly demonstrate that aggression is never far from Argentine minds when it comes to the Falklands.
And I've news for you, Britain will NEVER sit down and talk sovereignty on Argentina's terms. We don't and never will talk with a gun to our heads.
And as usual you resort to cheap and gratuitous innuendo. The only fascists in South America are Argentine, people like you that discriminate on the grounds of race. You wouldn't recognise democratic principle if they bit you on the arse.
You already have a gun on your head and your young people will shoot. You made an aggressive comment for me to answer in the same way for mercopress to delete my comment. Well, here it goes, I said many times you are the racist, fascist and ignorant here. You only know to distortion argentine history, I'm not gonna enter into details about history, I'm just gonna say that britain had much interest in malvinas in 1833 and lost it. In 1982 they gain it again and tell me how do you know they're not gonna loose it again?
Oct 29th, 2009 - 10:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0I know there is some people there who recognise that one day they will have to sit to negotiate. They said it publicly in the british media and they are adults who lived there during the war. I know young people there doesn't think like you and that is good, that show me they're not ignorant fascist and racist worms like you!
Some advice, don't become crazy about history. If you do, then one day you are gonna end questioning the big bang theory. And please, go back to school. Have you ever gone to school?
Oct 29th, 2009 - 11:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Jorge
Oct 29th, 2009 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Aggressive comment from me? BS
Britain doesn't have an interest in the Falklands, what matters is the people living there, something you just don't get. Britain is also fully prepared to talk to Argentina, if the islanders wish it. Argentina isn't prepared to talk to the islanders, though they've offered talks to Argentina.
The conflict over the islands was started and is sustained by Argentina, your aggressive and confrontational attitude simply drives the islanders away. Britain and the Falklands have moved on, whilst Argentina is still mired in 19th Century recriminations.
Sit and negotiate does not mean we have to capitulate to Argentine demands. As regards to my schooling, I learnt at school to listen to evidence objectively, something that enables you to spot propaganda. A skill it appears you lack in spades.
Ciao.
typhoon just flew over the town. what a lovely sight.
Oct 29th, 2009 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I love the teeth they have painted on the nose cones. they look hungry.
Bullshit! You refuse to talk and don't come up with fisheries, oil or whatever, the main thing here is sovereignty and is britain goverment who is preventing us to take what is our. We don't have to talk to crown subjects who live in a oldfashioned colony in the 19th century who pretends to have self-determination when you don't have it and pretend to have a democratic goverment when in reality you have a clan of clowns with some of them just thieves.
Oct 29th, 2009 - 09:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0chill jorgie,your getting stressed out. you cant have whats not yours.
Oct 29th, 2009 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Falklands are not Argentine, never have been, they never will be. Nor are they a colony, they are self-governing, they do enjoy the right to self-determination.
Oct 30th, 2009 - 12:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0They are human beings, with human rights; rights guaranteed by the Universal Declation of Human Rights. We see the people as important, you consider them untermenschen in the way of a land grab. As always the mask slips and the rabid racist bile pours out once more.
Do please continue, you do such a wonderful advertisement for Argentine hegemony.
They are human beings, with human rights; rights guaranteed by the Universal Declation of Human Rights.
Oct 30th, 2009 - 01:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody denie them having human rights, but they do not have rights over a land they/you stolen from us. As your soldiers on iraq and afghanistan have human rights but they do not have rights over Iraq.
How many british propaganda did you eat today?.
we cant steal something that allready belongs to us. all this over 4 typhoons. prehaps we should bring down all 160 typhoons to the FALKLANDS .must be horible to have so much anger in ones self.
Oct 30th, 2009 - 01:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0every one on the islands knows your air force probes us at least twice aweek, but a soon as the tornados or typhoons go up you hightail it home.
if you want to play come to the party.
Khhnlpeq, I dont care your typhoons, bring them all if you want, we will still be a pin in the ass for you guys, you may scream, protest, provoke, we will never stop our claim, so you can put your mask of human rights defender while under the carpet you torture people, even if you dont care, even if passed 100 years more we will still pushing for our claim.
Oct 30th, 2009 - 03:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Jorge/Luis - How can we sit down and talk to your Govt when it has made it very public it will only accept 1 solution - forced takeover of the population here - many like me 5 t0 8 generations born here- totally against our wishes and thus impose a colonial government over us ruled by Argentina! Would Argentina really like to be known as the old fashioned colonial power of the 21st century that refuses to recognise the principle of selfdetermination?
Oct 30th, 2009 - 08:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0We know you will not drop your claim under the present system - you must know that we - nor Britian will ever give in to it either - so stalemate.
IF Argentina were to say, yes we have our claim - but let us sit down and talk about the future options with an open agenda - Not a Fixed Argentine Soveriegn Takeover - then maybe we would have something worth talking about.
Dont forget - that is all the UN asks for - talks - not an automatic Argentine takeover. And because that is what your Govt insists on is the simple reason why the Islands and UK will not talk to you.
Give it an open agenda, end of threats from your side - and with some thinking away from the narrow lines of both sides of the last decades which has happened because of Arg agression - and we might even reach a solution that could satisy everyone.
As for toture - there has never I believe been preplanned Govt sponsored torture by UK for a couple of centuries - but yes war is a pretty uncivilised business and fought by humans - who are then trained to act like aggressive animals - both sides- do that and inevitably there will be the odd unpleasant incident- people are humans and sometimes do things they regret later-both sides in any war. After all in 1982 your army even tortured some of its own soldiers here!
Luis,
Oct 30th, 2009 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Britain doesn't torture, the worst allegations that have been made (and they are allegations) is that the British intelligence services knew the Americans used torture methods and said nothing. Now, I'll freely admit there is no altruistic reason behind that, the British found a long time ago that torture just happens to be useless in terms of extracting information.
However, if we want to talk about allegations of torture, then as Islander points out your own country doesn't have a shining record in that regard does it. Nor are we just talking about the military dictatorship, conscription ended in Argentina as the result of a torture scandal, long after the return to democracy.
So Luis, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Once again we see the rank hypocrisy in your statement, you allege they don't have any rights because they “stole” the land from you. Where are you living, what is you ethnic origin, how did you get there? Because the answer is Argentina is a former Spanish colony, ripped from its indigenous inhabitants, that the Argentines expanded by marching into Patagonia and exterminating the native population, thats without mentioning Paraguay and the War of the Triple Alliance. All of which are more recent events that the British Return of 1833.
So once again Luis, people in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones.
As regards Iraq, like I have told you many times before, I am one of millions of British people who disagreed with the decision to invade Iraq. I am also one of millions who actively protested that we became involved. So no, I don't swallow propaganda.
And at no point has Britain ever said it intended to stay in Iraq, in case you hadn't noticed the troops left in May.
And as regards Iraq, lets be honest about that. No one in Argentina really cares, its simply a convenient excuse to label anyone British and to justify your inate prejudice.
So once again Luis, people in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones.
And I seriously doubt that Argentina will still be pressing an illogical irredentist claim in a 100 years time. At some point, you've got to come to a realisation that the way you go about it makes you look a bunch of prats,
“we will still be a pin in the ass for you guys”
Oct 30th, 2009 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are a minor irritation nothing more.
“you may scream, protest, provoke,”
We neither scream, nor protest, nor do we provoke. It wasn't Britain spitting its dummy out at the recent fishing conference, it wasn't Britain that unilaterally tore up existing agreements, it isn't Britain pursuing a spiteful, vindictive, overtly aggressive and ultimately counter productive foreign policy. I think you'll find all of those apply to Argentina.
And whilst the Falkland Islanders have offered talks with an open agenda, Argentina will only talk on the basis of its agenda. And Argentina demands “negotiations” or else.
The Argentine airforce now has the opportunity to buy F-22 Raptors, since the Obamanoid cancelled its production. They should be on the world market soon. That would even up the air patrols over the south Atlantic..
Oct 30th, 2009 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Like thats going to happen. The Argentines hardly lave 2 pennies to rub together. prehaps they could afford some old muskets though.
Oct 30th, 2009 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Between 01.05.82 - 14.06.82 the Argentines lost 200 aircraft & helicopters on and around the Falklands. The British lost less than 20.
Oct 30th, 2009 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina 400 miles from the Falklands & Britan 8000 miles from the UK fighting from aircraftcarriers . And the result victory.Now thats saying something .
Islander, you said:
Oct 31st, 2009 - 12:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0“”How can we sit down and talk to your Govt when it has made it very public it will only accept 1 solution - forced takeover of the population here“”
who said that?. give me the link please. As i know, regarding the population, Argentina never claimed the population of the islands, yes we compromised to respect their way of life and interests. we are not interested in capture inhabitants or expell them either. I think you missunderestood it.
Regarding the territorie, Argentina claim to have sovereignty rights, and claim for negotiations with the uk. The Uk claim to have sovereignty rights too but refuse to negotiate.
The negotiation does not implicate the automatic transfer of sovereignty, did you ever in your life saw a negotiation for sovereignty with two nations about disputed land?.
Chile negotiated territories in dispute with Argentina over sovereignty with no obligation of transference nor anything like that. Paraguay did so with Bolivia, Uruguay with Argentina over the Martin Garcia islands, etc.
Justin, in your previous post, i repet what you said:
“”They are human beings, with human rights; rights guaranteed by the Universal Declation of Human Rights. “”
while we deal with our past of dictatorship, you are not the queen of human rights, do we agree on this?.
And yes, british did tortured on iraq:
Torture In Iraq May Be Worse Than Under Hussein, Says UN Envoy
http://www.defencetalk.com/torture-in-iraq-may-be-worse-than-under-hussein-says-un-envoy-8194/
Soldiers report British torture of Iraqi civilians
http://www.defencetalk.com/torture-in-iraq-may-be-worse-than-under-hussein-says-un-envoy-8194/
More British torture in Iraq
http://www.defencetalk.com/torture-in-iraq-may-be-worse-than-under-hussein-says-un-envoy-8194/
then you said:
“”Once again we see the rank hypocrisy in your statement, you allege they don't have any rights because they “stole” the land from you. Where are you living, what is you ethnic origin, how did you get there?“”
dont put me out of context. they have rights as everybody, but dont have rights over the lands possetion. And i live in Argentina and was born in Argentina, my parents born here, my father is second generation in Argentina and my mother is a mix of spanish(third generation here) and criollo ( uncountable generations).
Islander, please, you are an intelligent guy, you can think, you are not like the british gang that writes here and looks reality in black or white. You are repeating like a parrot other people nonsense, please take 5 minutes of your time to think.
Oct 31st, 2009 - 04:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina is not a colonial power and don´t want to be that. It´s a least funny to read that when this comes from a guy that lives in a british colony....errrr...sorry.. a British Overseas Territory.
If someday Malvinas becames part of Argentina, probably Malvinas would be a province, like any province of my country. Please don´t ask me to write all the differences between a province and a colony, you can do your research, but I tell you in advance that there are many differences.
Luis,
Oct 31st, 2009 - 08:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0I cannot count how many times I have heard different Argentine Governments over many years talking about negotiations for the “return” of the islands etc. Also at the same time saying clearly that we, the people here, have no rights to have any say in our future. Correct, Argentina does not claim us as a people - Argentina regards us as a non existant people - that is why your Govt refuse to communicate direct with us and tries to act as if we do not physically exist. Ok you may dispute the Islands but you cannot dispute that we do actually exist.
An example - next week there is the 13th latin american fisheries meeting in Cuba - as a major fishing area off the continental coast scientists from our fisheries were going to attend - like they have in the past - a meeting of experts to discuss fisheries their economics and most important their conservation and the future for all. Yet Thursday our delegation is suddenly told it is not welcome and must cancel- guess what - Argentina told Cuba to make sure the Islands were not present - Argentina turned it into politics yet again!!
Independent of politics there used to be joint fishing survey cruises, exchange of catch information and agreements on season length and general conservation - in the whole South West Atlantic - all Independent of and totally seperated from any politics. Since Argentina withdrew your fisheries industry has sufferred greatly and ours some but not so bad. Big looser is the future industry with no effort and control over longterm joint conservation issues.
While your side continues to act in all these ways and pretends we do not actually exist as a people - we can never trust and believe that your govt would ever honour anything. One day I agree Welkin we have to talk - but the longer the present type of actions carry on - the further away that day of talking remains.
There probably are ways of doing something in future if you are prepared to think “outside the box” and can trust the other side to stick to something if you both agree it.
Yes there are probably many difference between the relation of an Argentine Province to Buenos Aires and an British Overseas Territory like the Islands to London. UK- and even European Laws only apply here IF our govt approves them - and some we have not.No UK or EU tax applies here - only our own taxes. UK and EU citizens do not have right to come here to live and work - they have to get a workpermit - just the same as a Chilean or Argentine.
Why you demand my country to talk to you?? I don´t see yours trying to talk to argentina. For you would be easy; come to buenos aires and talk to the media, in the news, organice a press conference, come to our congress, talk to our supreme court judges. I don´t think that´s difficult, just like free citizens bringing a message. Let´s talk.
Oct 31st, 2009 - 10:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sadly, reading your candidate´s ideas, all have the some idea about an alternative...do nothing. That´s courious in a democracy.
I don´t think is wise to bet for talks in the long run; time is in argentina´s side. More you wait more you loose. You loose every year of conflict, you loose $$$$$ every year according your potential.
Furthermore in long run brazil will be world power, GB will keep loosing relative power in the international arena; and argentina will be the fine 2º power of south.
Now we are unarmed, take your fear away; look my flag, is a peace flag, we are a peacefull country; we don´t want war we want prosperity.
But please don´t loose the train like in the ´90; your country lost seductive train in that decade. Now is light economic pressure with no weapons, please don´t wait for economic pressure with weapons. Don´t wait for the no weapons situation to be for ever; that´s not probable.
Don´t say you have a gun in your head, that´s not true; it´s a geopolitical situation like many; and sadly you will be in the middle until it exists.
Fisheris.- why don´t you stop calling extra regional fleets to depredate and start selling cuotas to argentine trawlers in exclusivity?? that would be a fine measure to sustain the enviroment. no more coreans, spanish, chinese etc, only argentine and kelper fleet with joint patrol.
Welkin,
Oct 31st, 2009 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sadly, reading your post is the same old Argentine message - 'we're a peaceful country, we don't want war' - in the very next breath you're then effectively saying don't wait until we have weapons. Same old threats. Same old rubbish. It hasn't worked in the past and won't work in the future however difficult future Argentine governments (and petty nationalists such as yourself) try to make things for the Islanders.
Britain will continue to defend the Islanders right to self-determination and neither they nor the Islanders will waiver in the face of either economic or military threats from Argentina. The Islanders will continue to prosper and no doubt people like you, Jorge and Luis will continue to seethe. In terms of time, it's only a matter of time before exploitable reserves of oil are found around the Islands thus ensuring the continued economic prosperity of the Islands. No doubt any discovery will be met with more nashing of teeth and whining from Argentina but it won't make a bit of difference.
Islander, you took 3 important points:
Oct 31st, 2009 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) Argentina say that islanders dont have no rights to have any say in their future.
2) That Argentina regards islanders as a non existant people.
3) And that becouse of that, that is why the Argentine government refuse to communicate direct with islanders and tries to act as if they do not physically exist.
1) Islanders have rights to decide their future, but not in someone else territorie. From the Argentine point of view, you guys represent a colony on our national territorie from a foreign power. For the Un decolonization committe, you represent a colony of the uk. So you have a say in your future, but not in a land taken from another nation.
2)Argentina regards islanders as british subjects on argentine territorie. And there is a compromise included in our constitution to respect the islanders way of life and interests. So non existant people?.
3)Argentine government refuse to communicate direct with islanders becouse they do not represent a different entity from the uk.
Then you talk about fisheries and that Argentina turned it into politics again. So you think that malvinas government is not doing the same for political purpose?. To be recognized as an independent state?.
Saludos.
Luis,
Oct 31st, 2009 - 08:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are a patronising B*****d in the manner of you Government as always. I expect your attitude stems from your evident national inferiority complex which prompts you at all times to try and bully all your neighbours to assert for yourselves alone your belief in your superiority. What else can I say other than express this honest opinion.
If I get “Expletive deleted” at least you will have read and understood my opinion.
Expat Kelper , i wish you the best. Be happy and not so angry all the time. Get a life will you?.
Nov 01st, 2009 - 05:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0PD: i doubt that mercopress will ever delete your post. Oh and by the way, i dont know the word B******d.
Luis, Argentina has one weapon the British cannot match and it is time.
Nov 01st, 2009 - 07:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0A total embargo will be placed on the Malvinas within the next two years. There will be no contact with South America in any form.
If the British are so determined to keep the Malvinas then let them pay for them.
we are talking about politics.
Nov 01st, 2009 - 11:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0why the insult? is it a tabbo topic?
Is that the Neil Rogers that lived in the Falklands for years with his brother? If it is why are you so anti Falklands these days? You had it good here. With a posible link with South Africa on the horizon we would not need South America at all!
Nov 01st, 2009 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Welkin, I agree regarding our election candidates that the majority have the same old line which has no possible way ahead.Same as the current Argentine line has no way ahead. A different approach is needed.
Nov 02nd, 2009 - 06:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Our problem is that Argentina refuses to communicate direct to us they will only talk to London.
Fisheries - The Islands go to international conference to talk fishing and conservation - not politics.It os somebody else who always makes it political-not us. Like it or not, we control a large fisheries area f the SW Atlantic and have plenty of experience in controls and conservation in the area we are a world leader in reduction of deaths of albatross by fishing for example. To exclude us is just silly.
Luis, I have long ago lost count of the number of times ArghGovt has said they want “negotiations over a transfer of sovereignty to them ” or words that mean the same. If we have any rights under your constitution - then I suggest somebody tells your Foreign Minister Tania to read it. He has said more than once that we people here have no rights and have no right in any decision over the islands and that we are a “non-people” - now that is not really so far away from what the Nazis said about the Jews.
One day we will reach a solution, and the most likley one is Independence - in a suitable form for such a small country - What remains to be seen is how we all get to that point in such a way that the base positions of all sides are satisfied.
Islander, we had a different approach in the 90', remember chancellor Di Tella?. Well it didnt work.
Nov 02nd, 2009 - 09:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Then you said:
“”Our problem is that Argentina refuses to communicate direct to us they will only talk to London.“”
Islander, you are not an independent state, you represent a colony of the UK, like it or not. In any case you are London, London is a member state of the UN, your goverment is part of the uk, YOU are part of the uk. So Argentina IS talking to you. I repeat you are not independent yet.
“”we control a large fisheries area f the SW Atlantic and have plenty of experience in controls and conservation in the area we are a world leader in reduction of deaths of albatross by fishing for example.“”
Your control area is delimited purelly by force.
Islander, to respect islander's way of life and interests does not mean in any case their wishes.
“”One day we will reach a solution, and the most likley one is Independence “”
A solution without Argentina's consent?.
Falklanders, forget about Argentina. Do you residents and citizens there have contact with Brazil? And can you fly and to Brazil from the Falklands?
Nov 02nd, 2009 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0hammer, there is no anti-falklanders speech here, only anti-british and pro-freedom speech. We want to be friends with islanders, we want commerce, we want interaction, but we don´t want the british presence; we want to interact with free citizens not with colonial subjects of a monarchy, monarchy that uses islanders as an excuse for its own territorial ambition.
Nov 02nd, 2009 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Islander, yes, our politicians have the same old argument, but for us Malvinas is not the main topic, for you Argentina is the main political topic, it´s your task to be imaginative.
As I said, don´t expect Argentina to talk to you; you must come and talk to argentines (and listen); don´t expect anything from Argentina nor Britain different from what you already have.
The fisheries problem is caused by the extraregionals fleets, you are calling them not us. Our combined fishery zone must be only for kelper and argentine fleets.
Ah Luis, I see your “torture” links no longer include the fake pictures that you were so excited about that you kept the tissues close at hand. Unfortunately they're fakes.
Nov 02nd, 2009 - 11:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As regards the links you did post, these were allegations, where individuals committed acts that were plainly wrong. Where those allegations were true, the individuals responsible have been punished. Most of those have been found to be unfounded.
However, what they are not is a systematic Government regime that promotes torture as a national policy, as you imply. Now being kind, that maybe because that is what you were used to. Don't judge other people by your own standards.
And Luis, it seems again that I have to remind you that the Falkland Islands were only ever listed as a colony because Britain voluntarily listed them. They are no longer a colony, the relationship with the UK moved on a long time ago, increasingly self-government has been devolved conferring the right to elect their own Government and reducing the UK's role to providing a defence guarantee and foreign office representation.
And answering Welkin, again I would have to remind you that the FIG has offered open talks with the Argentine Government, however, the Argentine Government refuses to talk to them.
All we ever hear from Argentina is threats, threat and more threats. Newsflash, its counter productive and that is precisely why the candidates in the current election have a negative attitude toward Argentina. Still however, the FIG allowed the recent humanitarian visits after the Argentine Government had turned it into a political football for years.
Neil Rogers, are you playing at being British this week, is that even your real name?
Welkin, Anti-British and Pro-freedom, but they can't decide for themselves. Try talking to the islanders instead of patronising them.
I see someone mentioned Di Tella, whilst certain aspects of what he did were obviously naive (the kids liked the Pingu videos though), he is about the only Argentine to have got it. After years of vinegar, Argentina tried honey for a while, it was getting somewhere. Ah but then we have Kirschner who turns the clock back to confrontation, so a generation of islanders that were learning to trust Argentina now doesn't.
Nov 02nd, 2009 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You should never underestimate Argentina's ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
You hit the nail Justin. Well put.
Nov 03rd, 2009 - 01:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0indeed Justin hit the nail dead centre. As I have said before - had the Di tella method continued we would by now quite likley been heading in different circumstances - a level of trust of Argentina would prpbably have returned and maybe even flights by Arg airlines - who knows. We would have been ahead of Spain and Gibraltar. No there would not have been a blue and white flag at Govt House, but there would have probably been a good level of trust and co-operation and understanding of each other- the sort of thing that is needed if we are to ever break out of the stalemate and find a real solution one day.
Nov 03rd, 2009 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0But no, I wake up and we have the reality of the Kirchner bully-boy tactics since 2003 that have caused the new young generation here to dislike and deeply distrust Argentina.
Luis, our Govt is NOT part of London - London has no effective power within the Islands. Our Govt for example decides which British person from UK can come into the Islands and have their pasport stamped with permission to work and live here-exactly the same as applied to someone with an Arg passport. As for monarchy - yes she is my Queen - she is also Queen to millions of Canadians(maybe not to the frenchcanadians ok!)- are you going to tell me that Canada is a Colony? Neither of us is. One is fully Independent within the Commonwealth, and we are internally selfgoverning, a british Overeseas territory where britain has responsibility for defence and foreign affairs
Justin, the War of the Pacific pitting Chile against Peru and Bolivia was instigated by the British. They traded Chile the ships to get to Lima and shell the captial, for the guano reserves on Bolivias coast...
Nov 03rd, 2009 - 11:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0“”You hit the nail Justin. Well put.“” hahaha for crist sake justin dont change your name to khh!!!.
Nov 03rd, 2009 - 11:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Islander you said:
“”had the Di tella method continued we would by now quite likley been heading in different circumstances“”
Had the Di tella method continued you will be independent, Argentina would be a colony of the US, Trafic of Argentine weapons would be the main activity on our economy,etc....
So what is bad for us is good for you isnt it?.
Islander, you believe you are independent like canada, australia. But are you part of the United Kingdom yes or no?.
Dont donfuse yourself, you are not Canada, nor Australia. You are a british overseas territorie and Argentina wants to negotiate with britain. You are included becouse you are part of britain.
http://www.sholland.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/A5896F5E-B407-48D2-9AD7-2F48CC0544D9/0/CommonwealthandEUcountries.pdf
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:JmSmmwfC9cMJ:www.cheshireeast.gov.uk/pdf/CommonwealthCountries.pdf+british+overseas+territorie+common+wealth&cd=6&hl=es&ct=clnk&gl=ar
Change my name, I always publish as myself, I've always used my own name. Mmmm, you are Neil Rogers and I claim my £5.
Nov 03rd, 2009 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Had the Di tella method continued you will be independent, Argentina would be a colony of the US, Trafic of Argentine weapons would be the main activity on our economy,etc....”
Which planet are you on? You really have lost it there.
The Falkland Islands are independent, they govern themselves, they rely on the UK only for defence and foreign relations. Britain has no role whatsoever in the day to day running of the islands. As I've said before, Britain and the Islands have moved on, whilst Argentina remains in 19th Century recriminations and telling anyone who will listen she could have been a contender.
“Argentina wants to negotiate with britain”
Really? But no, Argentina wishes to imposes its own terms. The offer of open talks with the FIG is on the table, no strings attached. But then as I've pointed out before, Argentina isn't interested in negotiation and Luis, your little illogical rant illustrates that nicely.
Luis,
Nov 04th, 2009 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Of course we are not fully independent like Australia Canada etc - but neither are we a direct part of Britain.We have internal national self government, our own Laws,Taxes,Police, etc - for example the Islands and Britain are members of the Commonwealth - our Govt goes to international Commonwealth conferences - we sit at our table - not the British one.
Our full Independence will come one day - and yes we will have to negotiate with you to find a way that you can recognise it without loosing any arguments.
Islander,
Nov 04th, 2009 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0what you said above is impossible.
About di Tella, Forget him, get him over, he's dead now and he's not gonna return isn't it?
He was so silly. We'll always remember him because he did lots of stupid things about Malvinas and at the end he got nothing.
cheers
I'll tell you something, Kirchners will be gone soon. we'll have another goverment, when it occurs do something about our problem. As welkin said, Don't miss the train this time because you are not gonna have another Di Tella. And keep the winnie the pooh!
Sorry to be so quiet. Away in the Douro tasting wines.
Nov 04th, 2009 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I love the way jorge calls us criminal and fascist. I don't remember the UK giving fleeing Nazis sanctuary after the war... but Argentina did...
There we go again, more empty threats from our resident advert for Argentine dominance. Don't get it do we?
Nov 05th, 2009 - 06:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0“I love the way jorge calls us criminal and fascist. I don't remember the UK giving fleeing Nazis sanctuary after the war... but Argentina did...”
Nov 05th, 2009 - 07:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0We have the biggest jews community in latinamerica and they came imediatly after the war. Don't be ignorant!!!!
We have the biggest jews community in latinamerica and they came imediatly after the war. Don't be ignorant!!!!
Nov 05th, 2009 - 08:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0I bet the Jews didnt come on the U- boats though. I bet your fleeing Nazis had some fun with them for a while then .
“I bet the Jews didnt come on the U- boats though...” Well said khh. Touché jorge, touché.
Nov 05th, 2009 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's also interesting that around the time these fleeing Nazis were given sanctuary in Argentina the claim to the Falklands was revived...
Jorge, If Di Tella got nothing, please tell me what has Tania and Kirschener achieved? Nothing but a revival of the feeling that Argentine is a big evil place which wants to grab us and make us a colony in the worst of old fashioned 19th century colonialism. Di Tella maintained your claim with firmness and dignity - but he was a realist who appreciated there are 2 sides to every argument and you cannot just pretend the other person does not exist. Today we get a different Government, in 2 year time you may do - let us hope there is some cooling down and a more rational approach then and some form of mutual realism can start between us
Nov 05th, 2009 - 05:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“”I bet the Jews didnt come on the U- boats though...“ Well said khh. Touché jorge, touché.”
Nov 05th, 2009 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0J.A. Roberts/Justin Kunts(khh),
You are well trained to support each other nonsenses aren't you!!!
Islander,
I'll tell you what kirchner and taiana got. They show us you can't ignore argentine actions, you need argentina because it is the closest land you have and Argentina has higher influence than UK in all latin american countries and let's face it you can't be giving your back to the closest region you have for ever. That's the problem when you are a small community. Just accept it.
You said,
“Di Tella maintained your claim with firmness and dignity”
We don't think so. Why don't you ask argentines about it?
“he was a realist who appreciated there are 2 sides to every argument and you cannot just pretend the other person does not exist”
I couldn't agree more with you. There are 2(two) sides to every argument and not 3(three) and is UK who pretend we don't exist when it ignores UN calls.
Regards
Islander,
Nov 05th, 2009 - 08:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you said, “Today we get a different Government, in 2 year time you may do - let us hope there is some cooling down and a more rational approach then and some form of mutual realism can start between us”
I would add that you have to put aside your fears and take the first step this time.
Cheers
jorge, you show by your answer that you really don't have a counter argument apart from the risable “we are well trained to support each other”.
Nov 05th, 2009 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please come up with something more intelligent than that and oh, if you get the chance why don't you travel to the Falkland Islands and see for yourself?
J.A. Roberts,
Nov 06th, 2009 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There were hiden nazis here but they weren't protected by us. This country respects individual rights more than any other in latin america. We are like the holland in that matter here. And my previous answer is according to the level of your comments. I will think my answers when you think your comments. One day I will travel there, but that won't change my thinking on the matter though.
cheers
Jorge we will have a big fat steaming turd for you to eat when you arrive. Your goverment usualy talks crap, now you can eat some!!!!
Nov 06th, 2009 - 10:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jorge, I don't know if you are truly ignorant of history but the Nazis were hidden and protected in Argentina. Eichmann for example. And this was by Peron, who had many Nazi sympathies.
Nov 07th, 2009 - 12:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0“that won't change my thinking on the matter though”
A closed mind is a terrible thing.
“I would add that you have to put aside your fears and take the first step this time.”
At the same time, Argentina should cease its senseless policy of confrontation. Seeing as everything I say is ignored, I'll simply quoye your countryman:
Vicente Palermo: “In short, the Government acts as if it plans to lay siege to the inhabitants of the Islands, as a method to soften them up and to force them to accept everything that they don’t want. This is terrible, for the Islanders, for Argentine objectives in relation to the Islands and, above all, for the respect that Argentines can have for themselves”
You see the islander's attitude is entirely down to your Government's actions.
jorge, you still have not given a coherent counter argument.
Nov 07th, 2009 - 01:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0You have not improved on your “we are well trained to support each other” - as if Argentines on this forum don't do that either.
“One day I will travel there, but that won't change my thinking on the matter though.” This is a very telling statement jorge. No imagination, no intelligence, just stuck in your nationalist rut without the ability to think your way out of it. Don't tell me to think about my comments, when you quite obviously are unable to move beyond the usual Argentine government dogma...
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