MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Italian film attempts balanced approach to Falklands/Malvinas dispute
The Falklands/Malvinas are again the motive of a film this time by an Italian director and in the form of a documentary which tries to give a bigger picture of the issue, including Patagonia’s emptiness and the fact Falkland families have been living in the Islands for over 150 years. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesNice to hear about a new movie of the islands.
Nov 09th, 2009 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But Patagonia emptiness is not a topic to discuss. The islands were linked to Buenos Aires since the begining.
Excatly, here we do not disucuss the emtiness of patagonia (north scotalnd is also not much poulated as the south of Freat britan, so?? that doesnt mean Scotalnd should belong to Norway or Iceland???
Nov 09th, 2009 - 11:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That people were living for more than 150 years also does not justify the occupation done BY FORCE by english army back in the 18 hundreds!
Of course the willing of those people living there to remain british must be heard, but also the soverign rights of the a territory which is located within argentine territorial sea as well taken away from argentina by force, should also be taken into consideration! i would suggest an open discussion and try to close both population: argentina and fakland inhabitants and discuss and solve the problem together!
rgds,
emilio
The only people who matter are the population of the Falkland Islands. Any country that is a member of the UN recognise this, and it is approppriate to any country in the world. They make the decision as they are the ones who would have to live with the outcome of the decision. Location does not factor in when determining nationality.
Nov 10th, 2009 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Emilio you seem to forget the force Argentina actioned in 1982? The Falkland Islands would only discuss anything with Argentina when its ends it policy to damage the Falkland Islands in international forums and economimcally. Argentina need to stop acting childish, when our nationality is in question, we will decide when we want to discuss anything, not the aggressors.
Emilio also forgets that the force in the 18 hundreds he speaks about was to remove an illegal Buenos Aires garrison. The civilians mostly remained on the Falklands, some for decades afterwards. It's not something Argentines are taught at school, and as you rightly say Mike, the 82 invasion seems to be glossed over too... Argentina lost any moral right to comment on the Falklands when they invaded in 1982. Argentina should mind its own business and keep out of that of others...
Nov 10th, 2009 - 08:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is some thing that surelly most islanders dont know, here in argentina since we are children, at school only one part of the story is told, we spend our lives hearding that the malvinas are argentine, i defended the argentines rights on the islands all my life, but a couple of weeks ego i rode the arguments of the islanders about the conflict, and i must say tha i was really sorprised, in my 28 years i never knew about this side of the story, eaven i didnt knew it when i studyed the story of the conflict in my carear as a profesor of geography, now i have many doubts about our rights on the islands, when i have time i will find out if our clame is still legitime, meantime when i have to teach, i will tell my piupirls not only our oficial story, i will tell them also the arguments of the islanders, they wil have their conclutions.
Nov 11th, 2009 - 05:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mmmmm I don't Think this guy is an argentine. He said exactly the same some weeks ago, exactly the same. And if he were a teacher, he must know he can't teach whatever he wants, just like in any western country. There are some argentines who think like him, but don't express that way. That's why I think he's not an argentine, just a crown subject of the colony in malvinas.
Nov 12th, 2009 - 02:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0I forgot, he says that always defended argentine rights and a couple of weeks ago......... What happened a couple of weeks ago man? Did you get absorbed by a british UFO or something like that? If you really are a teacher, I have to say poor students. That's why educational system is in decadence, with teachers like you.
Nov 12th, 2009 - 02:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0The way he writes English sounds like an Argentine. As to what happened a few weeks ago, it sounds like he read some proper history rather than the Argentine propaganda that is spoonfed to each and every child! Good on him for admitting that he will give the matter some consideration. As for the pupils, at least they will through him have acccess to a more balanced view than the susual single minded one. Shame on the Argentine education system if they stifle discussion on the topic, but hey, what else can you expect?
Nov 12th, 2009 - 02:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0hehehehe...this forum is becaming hilarious with fake guys posting crap....keep writing that I can´t stop laughing.
Nov 12th, 2009 - 03:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0“he must know he can't teach whatever he wants, just like in any western country”
Nov 12th, 2009 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I thought as much jorge, you guys ARE brainwashed, you are told what to think and cannot question anything for yourselves... I'm glad I don't live in “democratic and free” Argentina!
Actually all the Government in the UK does is specify the curriculum standards, its up to teachers what and how they teach provided it meets the curriculum.
Nov 12th, 2009 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting, apparently that freedom doesn't exist in Argentina.
No ignorant. You are the ones with the brain washed. It's easier to wash the brain of 3000 than the 40000000. Visit argentina and see how different people think about goverment and state policies. Finally, I'm also glad you don't live here. We don't need “people” like you. This is also for you little worm justin! You are well hidden in that ignorance hole.
Nov 14th, 2009 - 01:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0I love the way jorge puts people in inverted commas. Like we don't even deserve to be human, like we are some species of untermensch. True colours show jorge, well done. At least we all know where you stand.
Nov 14th, 2009 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Moi, Jorge?
Nov 14th, 2009 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did I prove you wrong yet again, its happened many times before and each time you resort to the most childish of insults. For information I lived for about 3 months in Rawson, Chubut Province, Argentina.
And as Mr Roberts points out, every time you lose your rag, the mask slips and the racist bile pours out.
I don´t think we will solve the sovereignty problem here. But this is a question for all Britons, why ,if you think you are right, don´t you accept the UN to mediate for a final solution? The UN is calling both sides to solve the problem, but it seems the UK is not hearing. Let´s imaging a poor country is not hearing the UN, I bet the UK will be the first to send troops to make them accept the international law. So, should the UN send troops to London? It Sounds Crazy, doesn´t it?
Nov 14th, 2009 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jaiver,
Nov 14th, 2009 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Actually the UK is ready to talk and always has been, this has been stated openly and publicly many, many times. UN GA resolution 2065/65 calls on the UK and Argentina to find a solution to their dispute. No mention of Argentine rights to sovereignty.
Argentina on the other hand is only prepared to talk about this dispute if a transfer of sovereignty is the outcome, they have made that clear over and over again, so Argentina places the UK in an impossible position.
The UK has no right to give away sovereignty to Argentina, several UN GA and SC resolutions give that right to the Falkland Islanders. It is for the Falkland Islanders to decide.
It is Argentina who is “not hearing”!
Thank you Roberts for your answer. First of all I have to tell you I am not an expert in this matters. Since there is a conflict of interest between Argentina and the UK. My hope is one day to see both sides talking about everything and reaching a final solution for the good of everyone. What you say is right but for us ( argentineans ) is not enough, because talking should be about every topic, not the ones we want or the ones you want. It is sad to see the same way, you and I have such a disagreement about what should or shouldn´t be discuss, our goverments cannot reach for a solution, when I say salution I don´t mean one side is right the other wrong.
Nov 14th, 2009 - 08:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Javier,
Nov 14th, 2009 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm just giving you the facts. It's not an opinion, so not like I agree or disagree.
If the Argentine government refuses to accept that the Falkland Islanders have make the decision about sovereignty there is not much the UK can do about it... The Argentine government are responsible for the stalemate, that's a fact.
Thank you Roberts again and sorry for my English. HIstorically the discussions were between the UK and Argentina, I know after 1982 the UK gave more and more independence to the Isladers, but we don´t recognize that, the same way you don´t recognize the Islands are part of the Tierra del Fuego province.
Nov 14th, 2009 - 09:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So you blame on us for the stalemate, we blame the UK. A neverending story.
“UK gave more and more independence to the Isladers, but we don´t recognize that”
Nov 14th, 2009 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Javier, I'm not sure if you realise, but the UK is obliged by UN resolutions to do exactly this: give independence to the peoples of all UK non self governing territories. This includes the Falkland Islands. The UK is only undertaking its international obligations.
As a UN signatory Argentina should really recognise and accept this process! Believe me, the stalemate is caused by Argentina and no-one else...
Thank you Roberts to make me think about this. Today I could see your point of view which is different from mine. As I told you before I am not an expert, I should read more.
Nov 14th, 2009 - 10:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What I can see from you is that you think you and only you are right, not very different from many of my nationals. Please don´t even dream that one day you will wake up and we will drop our claim, the same way I don´t dream the Islanders will change their minds towards Argentina.
As I can see you say we should accept UN resolutions, here we say is the UK that should accept UN resolution. It´s like a dog trying to chase his tail.
We have to co exist in peace no doubt about this. Little by little we should find little coincidences. Roberts I don´t want to sound offensive, please don´t misunderstand me.
Thank you for your friendly words Javier.
Nov 14th, 2009 - 10:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please don't misunderstand me, I never said I was right (and by implication that you were wrong). In fact the only opinion I gave is that Argentina is the sole cause of the stalemate.
I simply put out a few facts. These inconvenient facts for the Argentine government, but they are facts nonetheless.
If you would like to read more about the Islander and British point of view you could start with these papers: In English and also translated into Spanish.
http://www.falklandshistory.org/gettingitright.pdf
http://www.falklandshistory.org/gettingitright.pdf
Thank you Roberts, I will read what you sent me. I come to mercopress.com or I read Penguin news or exchanged e mails in the past with some Islanders because I am curious about your society. I never been to the Islands, it is my dream visit them one day. But I always remember that Mike Summers said something like “everytime we stamp an Argentine Passport we prove sogverenety”. that´s the only thing that stop me from visiting the Islands.
Nov 14th, 2009 - 11:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now I have to watch the film, I live in Mar del Plata, I ll find out about it.
I liked Roberts this exchange of word I hope the other readers didn´t get bored! Nice talking to you.
“...... Tras su manto de neblinas, no las hemos de olvidar, las malvinas argentinas, clama el viento y ruge el mar......”
Nov 15th, 2009 - 01:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0We'll never drop our claim. Get that out of your head. You had better get used to it. Hard political and economical times will come to your lives. Britain will do nothing. Time will see you knocking argentine doors.
That's fine jorge, but history shows that your analysis is probably incorrect. Nobody is going to come knocking at Argentina's door!
Nov 15th, 2009 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Javier,
Nov 16th, 2009 - 09:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even Brits get their passports stamped.
Thank you Justin, I didn´t know.
Nov 17th, 2009 - 12:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Javier, welcome and good to know you also think the current policies of both sides is really going nowhere. Somehow someday the ice has to be broken and a fair solution fopund. Both sides can make a case from history depending on which way you argue and whose side you are on- but history is yesterday, and in the mordern democratic world we need to think ahead and not back. I think you are right - a form of Independence - guaranteed and recognised by both UK and Argentina should be the goal - how we get there will need vision and open thinking on all sides. Yes Justin is right - somebody from UK coming here has also to apply for a work permit - exactly the same as an Argentine or Chilean etc.neither can someone from UK buy property easy - all people if not resident and permanent citizens need a special licence to own property - all this is controlled by our own laws.
Nov 17th, 2009 - 08:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hello Islander, thank you for your words.
Nov 17th, 2009 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0let me just give an idea, a form of independence, as you mention, will be for me a 200 years shared soverenety,a little bit like the “50 years Hong Kong has” ( I know is not the same case ). This will ease the tension and open channels of comunication between the Islands and the continent.
Javier,
Nov 17th, 2009 - 11:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just how would a period of shared sovereignty contribute to Islanders freedom of choice under the UN Charter and Human Rights ideals?
To impose something without the agreement of the inhabitants of the Falkland Islands would be both oppressive and retrograde.
What would open the channels of communication for real would be for an agreed situation of normal inter-country relationships with the question of sovereignty completely set aside. (for 200 years if you like). The Madrid Agreements were a wonderful starting point to create normal relationships now all but rejected by KK.
Shared sovereignty would imply particular and specific Argentine authority over the Islands which would be a non starter for the inhabitants of the Falklands whose interests must be borne in mind according to the UN.
As Peron once said when shared sovereignty was mooted in the past...yes agree to that because once we get a foothold nobody will ever get us out...
In order to etablish what Falkland Islanders interests actually are you must first ask them this question. Although the UN is quite clear in a large parts of its documentation what the interests of colonial countries and peoples should be. Not the least among which is freedom to choose their own future.
The 'tension' can only be eased when your country ceases to manufacture the situations which causes the “tensions” in the first place.
Please do not come back with the old 'implanted population' canard or I may well not be able to take your apparently friendly approach seriously.
Expat Kelper, I am sorry if you feel ofended by my idea of how the solution should be. I repeat it is only my idea.
Nov 18th, 2009 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Expat Kelper I am Argentinean and as I mention before we won´t drop the claim. I am honest about that. Let me tell you I have exchanged e mail and postal mail with an Islader in the past, of course we have a fundamental dissageement, but we had a very friendly a respectful exchange.
I disagree with the K policies toward the islands, but in the soverenety issue there is no disagreement. It may be the only topic almost all Argentineans agree. For bad politicians tension is better and less risky for their popularity, than take responsability.
I don´t even know your name, I will be happy to make friends from the Islands even if we have fundamental dissageements.
Jorge, yo fui perfectamente claro cuando di mi postura acerca del conflicto, si no leiste bien, o interpretaste lo que quisiste no es mi culpa. Yo dije que toda la vida defendi los derechos nuestros sobre las malvinas, y que hace un par de semanas lei los argumentos de los isleños, y la verdad que ahora tengo dudas acerca de los derechos de la argentina, y dije tambien que cuando tenga tiempo voy a averiguar si nuestro reclamo todavia es legitimo, no tomo totalmente por cierto lo que ellos sostienen , por eso voy a averiguar con todos mis profesores, y despues sacar mis conclusiones, por si no lo sabias, cuando hay un conflicto siempre hay dos versiones, no se puede tener una version tan cerrada, o creernos que solo nosotros tenemos razon, o someternos por completo a la postura contraria,yo no me manejo de esa manera, yo tambien puedo pensar, si no podes entender algo tan simple, es un problema tuyo, seguin entendiendo lo que mejor te convenga.
Nov 18th, 2009 - 07:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Javier, Kelper is right, a joint sovereignty would never be acceptable here, nor would it be practical as there are so many difference in the details of our constitutions(not that either is wrong no - just that they are different in detail). Even UK and France - nextdoor european countries could not properly agree a joint sovereigny on a small island they both claimed! A period when all claims and counter claims are set aside yes - that could create a better atmoshere to find a lasting solution.
Nov 18th, 2009 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0To me the real key problem that Argentian sees us a British european presence here. To us the key is we do not accept your sovereignty claim.
To me the answer may be then in full Independence(in a suitable form for a small country like we are). Perhaps with UK speaking for us at the UN and EEC and Arg speaking for us at the OAS and Mercosur? How do we get there in a way that saves face all round so no side can say it won and the other lost? Maybe after a diplomatic negotiation a point arrives where UK offers to give Sovereignty to Argentina - who immediatley recognises the rights of self determination of the Islanders and simultaneously grants us Independence? We then become Independent - inside the Commonwealth like Aust and New Zealand etc and many carribean countries - both Arg and UK recognising and guaranteing our Independence. Maybe it is possible -maybe not- but we need to try something away from the normal rhetoric where we all know neither side will give in.
Islander, I think your idea is one of the best workable solutions around, although why could you not represent yourselves in fora like Mercosur and OAS?
Nov 18th, 2009 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you let Argentina do that it won't be long before they insist on representing you everywhere and then start making decisions on your behalf...
Islander, I like your last comment. Let me tell you, you are right when you say “To me the real key problem that Argentian sees us a British european presence here.” I was thinking this kind of exchange of words makes common Argentineans like me talk to other Argentineans about this and make them see a different point of view, that´s why ease the tension will lead to a better understanding between our societies and maybe one day reach to a solution. I like your idea, as Roberts says it is workable. It won´t be easy, there is a lot A LOT of mistrust between us and it is logical.
Nov 18th, 2009 - 06:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0gess what i hate argentina
Nov 19th, 2009 - 02:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0I was just thinking about how big a percentage of our little population would otherwise end up overseas as diplomats! Hence the though we might have a High Commission/Embassy whatever in Buenos Aires to cover S America through Argentina and London to cover the UN and europe through UK. Based on the idea that by then we should all be 3 trusting and friends with all territorial claims gone.
Nov 19th, 2009 - 10:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think it´s difficult a “3trusting and friends” situation when UK is still trying to dominate south american resourses (antartica, georgias, sandwich, continental shelf etc).
Nov 20th, 2009 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It´s more easy a “2friends & trusting” situation without UK interfering and trying to dominate our resours. (our= argentine+ kelpers).
We don´t want UK as neighbours, and as this situation is sustained by force no friendship is possible, say UK to return to north hemisphere were it belongs and friendship will be a natural consequence.
Billy, I'm thinking you were not in the Falklands prior to 1982. Britain tried to reduce the force (all of one ship) from the South Atlantic waters and immediately the Argentine Government read it as “mmmmm.....now is our chance”. And did, and the rest is written in many history books with first hand accounts............. possibly thousands of people still suffering mentally ......... and hence why we are now extremely lucky (don't take anything for granted) to have the best army in the world as the gardians of this area of the South Atlantic.
Nov 21st, 2009 - 04:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Any suggestion otherwise, think at your peril. If you have ever had an eyeball to eyeball conversation with Major Dowling who served as part of the Argentine forces during the Falklands War then you can make judgement, if you haven't, think very carefully.
The President of Argentina & the Present of Chile are meeting soon with the Pope re the Beagle Channel agreement (remind me who now owns this territory?), so I'm thinking we head straight to the Pope to stop this meeting unless Argentina stops being so agressive and bullying in the South Atlantic. Does anyone have the Pope on their facebook?
Hopefully the Pope will make Argentine politicians see sense and drop this “I want these Islands”, and then yes, I can see friendship following.
All the people make their own opinion here.. nobody are interested of the opinion of the real land owner.. the people whose their land have been stolen since 1833??
Nov 21st, 2009 - 05:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0nitrojuan, you sit in South America, in a country that the Spanish ripped from its indigenous people, that Argentina expanded into Patagonia and spout hypocritical BS.
Nov 21st, 2009 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The real land owner? Sorry nitrojuan, Justin is right, you just spout a load of BS. The Falkland Islands were no more part of Buenos Aires (and let's not forget that Argentina did not exist in 1833) than the Santa Cruz province...
Nov 22nd, 2009 - 12:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Jajaja!!! Argentina did not exist in 1833?
Nov 22nd, 2009 - 03:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Roberts, you'd better go back to elementary school. The other ignorant talks about ripped land. How hypocritical! Why don't you read about how the british stole and ripped land all round the world?
What could I expect from a couple of narrow-minded bennys!!!
Argentina like Argentina didnt exist, it was United Provinces of Rio de la Plata & BA State, like the British Empire dont exist now, maybe for malvinas illegal ocupants exist yet... and someone must tell them.
Nov 22nd, 2009 - 05:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Jorge/Nitrojuan, Who were the first european settler in patagonia? They were from here - farmers went from the Islands to the Rio Gallegos area and Santa Cruz in the 1860s with their sheep - so maybe we should be claiming Santa Cruz? The £ Sterling was legal tender in Rio Gallegos until the late 1890s. The same with your Tierra Del Fuego- the first settlers came from here.
Nov 22nd, 2009 - 06:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0As for who did what to who in 1833 - one point is that in 1833 NOBODY was doinfganything with the land - nothing just living in a few huts near the beach. It was my ancestors and those of other Islanders who worked hard and opened up the land to farming - just the same as they did in the south of your country for you. They went to your country and started building it for you - and naturally accepted the nationality of where they ended up living. Here it was the same, but a different nationality.
Islander, ushuaia born thanks persons like Rv.Thomas Bridges and his english mission and family, we in TDF have a hero in his job, and I saw english presence in Santa Cruz province and Camp, and in all our rail system thanks english. But never one of them put any flag with the union jack symbol. There have exist the respecful of the people who own that lands, not onas or yamanas or tehuelches, New Argentinian, like australian, canadian, american born. You have to visit Harberton Ranch near Ushuaia and maybe I will visit Stanley in Malvinas to have a better comprehension that what are you claiming maybe I ll found places where gauchos lived like Santa Cruz farm, or the rest of Puerto Luis o Soledad.
Nov 22nd, 2009 - 09:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ignorant comments about ripped land? So Argentina did not wipe out the indigenous peoples of Patagonia? Who is being ignorant.
Nov 22nd, 2009 - 08:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The difference is that the British do not shy away from the past, whilst Argentina usually does and in the most obsecenely hypocritical way.
The Falkland Islands are not Argentine land and never have been. You mention the close relationship that the British once had with Argentina, the myth of the Falkland Islands was used by Peron and his cronies to destroy that relationship. It seems it is still effective.
Justin is exactly right, we even have a museum, which tackles subjects like slavery head-on.
Nov 23rd, 2009 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can you imagine something similar educating Argentines about the terrible cruelties their ancestors inflicted in the Conquest of the Desert? I can't...
http://www.empiremuseum.co.uk/
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