MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Mrs. Kirchner promises next Ibero-American summit will address Malvinas issue
Argentine President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner said that the sovereignty claim over Malvinas, South Georgia, South Sandwich islands and surrounding maritime spaces, illegitimately held by Britain, will be paramount in next year’s Ibero-American summit declaration. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rules“Argentine President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner said that the sovereignty claim over Malvinas, South Georgia, South Sandwich islands and surrounding maritime spaces, illegitimately held by Britain, will be paramount in next year’s Ibero-American summit declaration”
Dec 03rd, 2009 - 10:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do those idiots really believe that the rest of South America (except their buddy Chavez who sponsor them) care about their crying about the Falklands? Amazing..
“We are satisfied with the support from all heads of state present at the Ibero-American summit to Argentina’s sovereignty claim over the Malvinas”.
Dec 03rd, 2009 - 10:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0What is a lie, and they, the clowns in Argie fantasy land, know that.
It's not only Venezuela my dear, the whole of the region plus Spain and Portugal. I'm afraid it is YOU who live in fantasy (somebody else's) land! Go to the declaration, see who signed them and then explain WHAT the lie is? Your position is so incredibly narrow minded...
Dec 03rd, 2009 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sure Enrique, keep on believing that they 'truly' support your claim over the Falklands (on all maps around the world you read the Falklands-UK). If you are so intelligent enough, you question yourself why they support your claim and if it's not only to 'satisfy” you, so that they get what they really want. Remember, those meetings is all about TRADE, to make more Money. They don't give a crap about your illusions, accept you. Oh well, It's funny how you clowns their wasting your time rather than concentrating on the real problems inside your borders.
Dec 03rd, 2009 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ah forgot, you're right, it's not only Venezuela who keeps your economy alive, because the biggest lender in your country is Brazil who expect from your government to keep their word by paying them back with loan shark interest rates. I'm sure that makes your beloved Kirchner administration very nervous. You believe that they, the Brazilians, also care about your Malvinas claim? I don't think so...lol.
Dec 03rd, 2009 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Enrique...how can you say that Islanders live in a fantasy? The reality, I will say that again...the REALITY of the situation is that the Falkland Islands are British. And the people who live on these Islands want to remain British. For a country to have the arrogance to force their will on a population is embarrassing. We have the choice. And if Argentina cared so much what the UN says, shouldn't they take notice of the right to self-determination. Oh yeah, I forgot, Argentina can pick and choose what rights people have to suit their own fantasies. Before joining the UN, Argentina should have carefully thought about that, because it contradicts their fantasy. But the Argentine leadership must have been too busy stealing from the public.
Dec 04th, 2009 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Having fought in the 1982 war in the Royal Navy it amazes me they still put this on the table , the right to sovereignty was finally ended on the 14th June 1982 when they violated the right of people in pursuit of freedom go home Lady and don't use the Falklands as an excuse for your own political Insecurity, popular opinion in the UK is extremely strong to the self determination of the Falklands Islands and is an insult to the so called democracy of Europe by making such speech
Dec 05th, 2009 - 02:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0April 2-14th June Dictatorship prevailed
Your self-determination is the only fantasy here. 3000 people with their minds dominated and trained since 1883. The right of sovereignty didn't ended. you are who invaded in 1883. Are you suggesting we have rights before the war? and you are the insult to the whole world. Manga de caraduras y sinverguenzas!
Dec 05th, 2009 - 08:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Are you suggesting we have rights before the war?”
Dec 05th, 2009 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yep Jorge, you have rights before the war and today you have even more rights. You have the right of being and staying a moron, the right of stopcrying about the Falklands (UK), you have the right to respect the will of the people of the Falklands (UK), keep on voting for incompetents, screwing up your country by not fixing the real issues, you have the right to pay more taxes that will help paying your nation's debt off to other countries, the right to acknowledge that Emperor Bush is smarter than you, that the US will win the world cup in South Africa (lol) and that we, the US, are the best of the world and have the right to invade your country for more oil, and..and..and you have the right that your country is a complete failure, plus that the Kirchners are an insult to your country and the world. :) laugh
Ooops, Drinking Argentinian wine (kool-aid) was a totally bad idea..
Dec 05th, 2009 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I meant to type: you have the right “to accept” that your country is a complete failure. You have plenty of rights Jorge (less than me of course). You only don't have the right, to invade the Falklands (UK) and annex it, or have any right to invade and annex any other nation.
I love this Nicholas guy.
Dec 06th, 2009 - 07:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0You can suck on that for the night jorgie boy.
You realy dont win many of these little chats do you!
TO ALL THE FALKLAND ISLANDERS:
Dec 06th, 2009 - 07:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0I know that it's very difficult and painfull for all of us to talk about the sovereignty, it's really difficult to be objetive when it's on the table a cause that involts to all of us.
The history that is told in argentina since we are children, doesnt coincid very much with the arguments of the islanders, the malvinas cause is just a small passage on the argentine history at high school, i think it's a big mistake, i started to investigate about your arguments, it will take years, meantime i have been talking to my profesors, they know much more tham me because they studyed at the university, and they told me that some of the arguments of the islanders are true, but there also enogh reasons to hold that we have rights on the islands.
I have always recognized that the falklands-malvinas are british, because the whole population belongs to the british culture, anyway if we have solid arguments that hold our sovereign rights on the islands, we must find a fair solution for all of us, may be sharing the sovereignty would be the best way, or may be not, i just know two things.
The solution to the conflict musts benefit to all of us (argentines and islanders).
On the other hand insulting or being arrogant like some compatriots or some islanders do, is such a pathetic way wich doenst resolve anything, it just increases a litle someones ego.
Meantime i will keep on investigating, i have always cared about this cause, because i dont want to omit anything to my future piupirls next year, i want to tell them about all the arguments, they will have their conclutions.
Nicholas, Do I have less rights than you? You just shown me what kind of worm you are! Do you have the right to invade my country? Well, I have to say, argentine wine is only for smart people and not for you. Lol. By the way, you yankies are one of the main consumers of argentine wine! Lol.
Dec 06th, 2009 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You told me to keep voting incompetents! YOU? the people who voted for Bush!!! Get the f*ck out of here you as***le! You are the s**t of this world!
P.S. You'll win tthe world cup!!! LOL......LOL....keep dreaming jerk!!!!!
khh, do you love nicholas? well convince him and let him give you a F***ING from behind!!!
Axel, i dont share your view, but i dont expect you to think or reason like i do. The whole situation is in perspective, you might see a tshirt red while others might see it white, the problem is when you want to convince others that a white tshirt is red, becouse the others might tell you are wrong.
Dec 06th, 2009 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now the question is, what arguments of islanders did your professors told you to be truth?.
Then you said:
“”I have always recognized that the falklands-malvinas are british, because the whole population belongs to the british culture“”
Thats the most simplistic thought i've ever seen. Many nations, if not all, were made of different cultures, but it does not makes our territory italian, spanish, french, etc.
If a nations A, invade the nation B, then expell the population of nation B inplanting its own, will that makes them owners of the territory becouse its culture came from nation A?.
I wish you the best of luck with your students?, i only hope that political sides does not affect the way you teach.
Best Regards.
I think the US should claim the islands since they forced the last Argentine contingent to flee, after they impounded a few US whaling vessels.. They had control before the British returned...
Dec 07th, 2009 - 10:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Luis, es evidente que sos argentino, no se porque me escribis en ingles, respeto tu punto de vista pero no lo comparto en algunos aspectos.
Dec 07th, 2009 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Acerca de la mezcla cultural de argentina, es verdad que todas las naciones, fueron creadas en base a diferentes culturas, pero no se puede comparar la que sucedio en argentina con lo de las islas, la argentina no esta bajo soberania italiana española, francesa etc, las islas nos gute o no estan bajo soberania britanica, la gente es britanica, y eso es algo que no se puede ignorar,yo siempre me pongo en el lugar del otro, y le pido al otro que se ponga en el mio, en este caso ambas partes tiene argumentos solidos para sostener lo que dicen, es por eso que hay que encontrar una solucion justa para ambas partes, mal que les pese a unos cuantos intereses, te sugiero que leas los argumentos de los isleños, investigues si son verdaderos o no, y luego saca tus conclusiones, los podes leer en www.falklandshistory.org
Por ultimo si yo digo que le voy a enseñar a mis alumnos todos los puntos de vista acerca del conflicto, y que luego ellos sacaran sus conclusiones, eso significa que las posturas politicas no afectan my forma de enseñar, no busco comerles el cerebro, yo quiero que piensen.
axel arg, I'm argentine and with all due respect, you should now that you must comment in english. That's a rule here and we must respect it.
Dec 08th, 2009 - 12:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Cheers
Axel, How right you are - when you look at the rational of the arguments from the other persons side- whichever one that is - yes both can make a case according to which way they think - and that is the only way we will ever find a fair answer and solution - by starting to respect each sides different views.I am an Islander and I believe that our argument is good and strong - but I also accept the reality that many Argentines take a different view
Dec 09th, 2009 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Axel, what aspects you do not share?.
Dec 09th, 2009 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You gave me the link: http://www.falklandshistory.org, but actually i wanted to know what is the truth for your professors and you.
I do that, Axel, i think how the other side might feel about this situation, and all i recognize from them is to those who born there and fight for their home. I respect that and i know they are going to lie, cheat, whatever they can for keeping things unchanged.
The fact is Axel, that exist a sovereignty dispute that must be solved.
While in every nation on the world different cultures enriched the inhabitants identity, in malvinas with its control of inmigration, almost 90% of inmigrants came from the uk or other common wealth members. This means their teachers, lawers, officers, specialists, medics, soldiers, etc.
So for negociate sovereignty, the uk pretend us to include a third party(islanders) but most of these guys, traveled 8000 miles to become the third party.
Acording to their constitution (correct me if im wrong):
The governor (named by the foreignt office) can make laws.
The governor can grant land.
The governor can appoint who ever he want for attorney general, chief of police, and the officer commander of the “falklands” defense force.
the governor (which is named from the uk's foreign office) appoint
the chief justice, the president of the court of appeal, and the justice of appeal.
Did i mention that their education is provided by london including its selfdetermination propaganda?.
So Islander, i underestand that you want to remain british, becouse you are british, but be serious, you do not represent a different entity from the uk. Ergo you cant participate in negotiation of sovereignty with argentina as a third party.
When it suits you, you are british, when sovereignty comes to mind, you are something else like Australia or NZ.
I dont need to clear this up but you remain listed in the colony list of the UN decolonization committe. So get real, you are british as any person born in london, lets talk about sovereignty mano a mano and solve this dispute.
There is a world of difference between custom and practise when it comes to the British and similar constitutions, the difference is theoretical and actual powers.
Dec 09th, 2009 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The governor (named by the foreignt office) can make laws.
No.
The governor can grant land.
No.
The governor can appoint who ever he want for attorney general, chief of police, and the officer commander of the “falklands” defense force.
the governor (which is named from the uk's foreign office) appoint
the chief justice, the president of the court of appeal, and the justice of appeal.
No. The governor appoints the person recommended by the FIG.
Education is not provided by London, though the Government does follow the same curriculum as the UK. Unlike Argentina where this is Government prescribed, teachers define what is taught, Government merely sets guidelines.
Luis, basically you're wrong in every respect.
Let us also not forget that the Falklands were only ever placed on that list because the British Government put them on it, they only remain on it because of Argentine lobbying and the Committee of 24 have never visited the islands or asked the people living there what they want.
Talk, why won't you talk with the islanders, instead of inventing excuses why they don't get a voice in their own future.
Justin you are one of a kind, you just dont substantiate anything, you just say no, no, no , no , no it didnt, no it doesnt...
Dec 09th, 2009 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0hahaha should i believe those “no” becouse you said so?.
To be fair to Justin, Luis, I have not seem much substantiation from you...
Dec 10th, 2009 - 02:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0GUYS, i think the best we can do is to debate and resolve this problem, but in a near future i dont think it's going to happen, our goverment ignores the islanders, and the british goverment doesnt want to talk about the sovereignty issue, i think we should push our goverments to debate about the conflict and find a fair solution for all of us.
Dec 10th, 2009 - 06:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Obviusly the solution is not going to be exactly what both parts wish, all of us (argentines and islanders) will have to cede a 50%, that's the key of democracy, the only one solution for this problem is debate, debate, debate and debate, i hope some day the three goverments can hunderstand it, because both parts have solid and legitim rights.
SORRY GUYS, but i didnt express my self correctly, what i wanted to say is that, the result of the solution is not going to be exactly what both parts wish.
Dec 10th, 2009 - 06:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Luis,
Dec 10th, 2009 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Justin answered 100% regarding Governor,s powers. THERE NEVER HAVE BEEN 3 WAY TALKS- ARG. REFUSES TO RECOGNISE OUR EXISTENCE AS A COUNTRY OR TERRITIORY WITH OUR OWN GOVT! All talks have to be 2 sides - Argentina and British - the British side is part UK and part Islanders and even then Arg makes it very clear that we have no rights at all. Oh for the day when Arg Govt and Falklands Govt could sit down and debate!
You still miss the point totally on types of democracy and selfgovernment - ours is different in style to yours - but the end result is the same - the people have the power. Britsh? Look say a Scotsman or a Welshman - you are british. - you had better stand back quick as they will tell you plainly they are Scottish or Welsh first and foremost - then ultimatley British yes. Same here - I am first and foremost an Islander - second by overall nationality I am British
“Justin you are one of a kind, ”
Dec 10th, 2009 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Indeed many recognise my unique qualities.
“you just dont substantiate anything,”
No I answered your questions, the answers happen to be accurate. I also do substantiate my comments, such as pointing out the documentary evidence of Thomas Helsby's diary giving a contemporary account of the events of 1833, Charles Darwin's diary and Fitzroy's diary all of which contradict Argentine claims.
In return you repeat Argentine claims that have no factual basis, with no substantiation.
You have a nice day now.
Axel,
Dec 10th, 2009 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To say the British Government doesn't want to talk is inaccurate, the British Government will talk if and when the FIG requests it. They will not enter talks without the consent of the FIG.
Now the FIG have offered direct talks with the Argentine Government, who refuse insisting they will only speak to the British Government.
So is what you're suggesting that the FIG should push the British Government to talk to the Argentine Government? Why bypass the islanders at all?
JUSTIN, good to talk to you again.
Dec 11th, 2009 - 05:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Firstly, i will allways repeat untill the day i die that the 3 goverments must talk and resolve the conflict with a fair solution for all of us (argentines and islanders), because we all have solid and legitim rights.
The posture of our goverment is totally imbecil, they can't ignore the existance of 3000 people, what i suggested is that we should push our goverments to resolve the problematic, it's true the fact that the FIG offered to talk to the argentine goverment, but they only offered to talk about cooperation and others issues, however the sovereignty is not on discution, those were the words of your goverment.
In this way the solution to the conflict is so far away.
Axel, what 3 governments?. Acording to the british nationality act, they are british, not a separate nation, so they cant take part as a third party.
Dec 12th, 2009 - 09:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Islander, you said:
“”Arg makes it very clear that we have no rights at all“”
You should know thats not true, Argentina recognize your rights as any human beings.
So to say Argentina does not recognize you having rights its unfair and Prejudice our commitment with human rights.
Now if you reffered about rights to the territorie, we offered to islanders to have immediately rights to reside in malvinas under de jure judiciary recognition. They refused to accept it.
So, about the territorie, i repeat the same thing im always saying, there is a sovereignty dispute that must be solved. and you remain listed as a colony, why should Argentina recognize you rights over a territorie we believe rightfully ours?.
In my opinion, your “selfdetermination” and “selfgovernment” ends everytime our president and your prime minister talks about you. It happened with Di Tella, it happened with the meeting of Cristina Kirchner and Brown, it happened when the brits wanted to cede sovereignty to us. Britain has the power to cede sovereignty to Argentina and thats the moment you realise that the british commitment to islanders “selfdetermination/selfgovernment” its the card of the moment.
So you vote for summer, sawle, etc. but they have no authority to block a transfer of sovereignty if london agree with us. Not only that, they have no authority to impide any dessition the uk takes on your behalf.
PD: Islander, i have no intention to offend you, i know you are very respectfull with your comments, and i dont agree with you but i respect you. So sometimes i sound like agressive but im not used to write in this language and sometimes pick the wrong words, so i hope you have patience with me.
Saludos.
Hi islander, agree that we dont agree its a good start.
Dec 12th, 2009 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think that a real democracy is where everybody has the same posibilitys, no matter if came from germany or egipt, jew or catholic, or if thinks differently. This premise doesn happens exactly, not only in my nation but in all nations, even in the US.
I've been reading malvinas manifestos of candidates for legislative, and almost all agree on an anti-argentine policy. One even sugested pression on argentina with the use of the argentines political visits to the islands (familys of fallen soldiers) as an instrument of pression to our nation. One even insulted us in his manifesto.
Of course most of you agree on that hard line, but we must dont forget that many of them came from britain or other common wealth members. I wonder what would happens if those instead of been born in britain would had born in mainland Argentina?.
The point is that you are too afraid of an argentinization of malvinas, while you are too britishined if such word exist. More british than the british. Of course you are british but what would happens if malvinas open its frontiers to whoever wants to become part?.
If you open the frontiers only to argentines, im sure it would suffer an argentinization,a pro-argentine population. But if you open it to all, it would develop trully democracy. So you would not avoid talking about sovereignty with us but you could say you gave equal oportunity to all to live there and grow. Thats democracy. And thats how natural nations develop.
You think you live in democracy, you think you govern yourself, you think you vote your representative, but you rely on people who came from britain, medics, lawers, judges, polices, soldiers, specialists,etc. You rely power on a guy named by an office in london. Your education rely on british universitys, your “selfdetermination” rely not in your own desitions but in pression made by press or by making lobby in westminster against political dessition made by politics.
Instead of searching for autonomy or selfgovernment, you seek a continuation of the colonialist policy. I dare you to convice seriously your neighbors that you think the malvinas should be returned to Argentina and that the queen is an old b...h. Then we will see how much time democracy worked for you.
Dont forget that more than 90% of people who live in malvinas came from britain or other common wealth members.
Foreign born population. British source:
http://www.migrationinformation.org/datahub/pdf/FALKLAND ISLANDS.pdf
http://www.migrationinformation.org/datahub/pdf/FALKLAND
Luis,
Dec 12th, 2009 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0No offence and no problem,I appreciate and understand what you say, yes we dont agree and see things from different perspectives -its democracy! thats why there is the dispute - which one day we will solve in a way where both sides need to be able to show that they have got their baseline principles accepted by the other - and then move on. How and When remains to be seen.
Yes UK could if it wanted to - hand over sovereignty to Buenos Aires tomorrow - but it would not for the simple reason that the Government would be out of power within a few days by loosing a vote of confidence - there is no way that the british Parliament - would allow a Govt to do that against the peoples wishes. Again its one of the differences with your written type of constitution - and the british unwritten type one - yes it would appear legal for the british to do all sorts of things-same as the queen in theory has all sorts of powers - but - in reality and practise those things do not happen that way.
As for Arg not allowing us any rights - i just refer to remarks by Arg Foreign Ministers who are on record saying that we Islanders have no right to be consulted nor have an opinion about anything to do with our homeland(by birth) and future.
haha our difference in times made my response to you islander be posted previous to yours.
Dec 12th, 2009 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyway the sole reason of having the uk the dessition of ceding sovereignty to Argentina and not you, is the reason why you are still a colony.
Cheers.
Luis,
Dec 13th, 2009 - 07:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes I was puzzled how it happened and we are only 1 hr time difference I think.A UK Government would no more decide to hand us to Argentina against our wishes than an Argentine President would order militarty invasiopn of say Uruguay without the backing of the Argentine senate and house of deputies . Both the British Prime Mininster and your President could announce they are taking those decisions - but in reality both would be out of office a few days later! Power is sometimes theoretical rather than actual realistic,
No British Govt would ever do such against our wishes and without consulting us, nor would any Arg president ever go to war without consulting and getting the backing of your elected members.
Colony - Ok look back at the relationship between UK and its territories say in 1900 - then compare those with the level of internal self government and freedom of control from UK that we have today - then you will see we are not a Colony - to us a colony is and oldfashioned and irrelevant and insulting word. Yes we are a “Dependent Territory ”- like several in the Carribean- purely in so far as we depend on UK for defence and foreign affairs - but there in practise it ends.
Yes no doubt 90% of us are of UK or other Commonwealth origen - I think about 70% of your peoples are of west european origin as well. How come they are allowed to be Argentines then - if those of us born here for 7-8 generations are not allowed also to belong to our country?
Openess - the rules are exactly the same here for someone to come in and live and work - be they born in UK or Buenos Aires. The only difference is in owning land and property - unless you have a British Passport you can only do so with special permission from our Govt - that even applies to people from the EU as well! This is not anti anybody - just that as a small place it could in theory otherwise be quite easy for people from outside to end up owning the whole place!
Islander, it is not about moral im talking about. Of course if some british prime minister would try such move, he would be incredible pressed by the press and by the opposition partie. But the thing is that they actually have that power to cede sovereignty to us. All you can do against it, is to yellow, convoque the press, and hope the people up there support you.
Dec 14th, 2009 - 08:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0The fact that they can do that, is the fact that prove you dont have selfdetermination. besides that, why you gets so nervious every time our president and your prime minister talks about you?.
About the colony definition, i dont use it as an insult to islanders, i use it to define from my point of view and the UN point of view, your governmental system.
The fact that it was the uk who put the islands in the category of colony years ago, does not makes the colony list irrelevant. At the contrary they continue to be an unresolved case of colonization.
You might think like Justin, that we have the power to influence the UN decolonization committe, well, we dont, if we could be one of the members of the security council with veto power, may be your theory could be correct, but unfortunately we dont have that power.
About percentage of population, we give freedom to all person who deside to live in Argentine territorie. Even you. we accept everybody who wish to live here and we protect their freedom.
You say proudly that your rules are the same in malvinas for people who born in uk or Buenos Aires, but from all foreign born in malvinas, 90% came from the uk or other common wealth members. Will you make me believe that it is easier to a guy to travel 8000 miles to live there than a guy who travel 600km?. Where are the islanders brazilians, bolivians, chileans, argentinians?.
Get to reality, while argentinian represent 1.5%, british represent 90%.
Luis,
Dec 14th, 2009 - 10:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0OK I know you are nor insulting us by using the word colony - it was to explain how we know here it no longer truly applies as we and other similar places have moved forward since the bad old days.
We do not get upset when Britan and Argentina talk as we know that the British position - from all parties is -no discussion on sovereignty
against our wishes, so we know that yes everytime they meet the Arg President has to raise the issue - the British Primeminister responds with their view - and then both move on to the more important international and bilateral issues they need to discuss.
It is logical that the great majority of people not born here come from english speaking countries like UK and commonwealth - same as most of those going to Argentina would be of spanish speaking country origen. But here it is changing - if you made another survey today it would show a big jump in the % of people born in Chile who now live here. We have a couple of Brazilians, not sure of Bolivians - but reality is we are a cold country for them to live in!
The only difference today in a person from UK coming 8000miles to say an Argentine coming 600km to live might be in the language and unless the one from Argentina had good english then yes it would naturally be more difficult to start.
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