MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
UK/Argentina: Tension over Falklands “likely to increase over the coming years”
Argentina has had to reduce military expenditure because of the recession but tension with the UK over the Falkland Islands is likely to increase over the coming years, according to a report from Companiesandmarkets.com (*) released this week. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesThings are only going to get more tense and heated during 2010 with the planned oil and gas exploration drive by several small uk oil companies. If anything is discovered and the subsequent potential boom unfolds it will only highlight the poor state of the Argentinia economy and their hydrocarbon industry. This will exasperate things in Argentina and may well lead to confontation of some kind?
Dec 18th, 2009 - 04:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0If anything is discovered you can bet the large multi nationals will become involved. With FOGL apparently talking to Chilean companies about using/sharing the refining capacity there
Don't worry the Falklands, there is a very high chance that Argentina will default “again” on their sovereign bonds. The 2 idiots here, Jorge and Nitro, don't even realize that.
Dec 18th, 2009 - 05:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentinians are indeed copycats. Everything what their neighbor is doing, they have to do to, even if they don't have the money. They want to upgrade their out dated weapens with borrowed money. Laugh! The truth is, they are jealous that their friend (Hugo) is buying sophisticated weapens, and jealous because their fierce rivals (Brazil and Chile) are upgrading their weapons. Chile with better but used weapens while Brazil is doing the smart way. It's also sad that they can't accecpt by puting in their thik head that they don't have the money to confront the UK, “again”. They only destroy themself, what is perhaps the best way for them, “again”, to realize that their country has become long time ago just a territory for a group of people with fake pride, without having a “real” identity, and only lived aboved their means. If you look closely at the emblem on their flag, you see a “sad” sun. That truly represent the people there, sad, and full of hot hair (empty). So this is true: “Don't cry for me Argentina, you will always be the land where you never become what you want to become”.
Nicho, never is a smart choise buying weapongs, when we live in times of peace, Argentina prefer to spend money in internal security, education, health, cause that chilean cross the border to attendence in ours Hospital like in Rio Gallegos or latams in general to study in our universities. Diplomatic ways ends like Laguna del Desierto with Chile, or to have the headquarters of UN - Antarctic Secretary in BA. Maybe asphyxiating kelpers we will recover MALVINAS.
Dec 18th, 2009 - 05:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0“never is a smart choise buying weapongs”
Dec 18th, 2009 - 06:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Really? A nation without a defence is worthless. A nation must have weapons to defend its borders and interests, so not, it will become a wild west territory (like yours)
“Argentina prefer to spend money in internal security, education, health”.
Do you really believe that, while the truth shows a complete different story? Nitro, Your government is spending 'borrowed' money like crazy “again”, and still, it's been proven that your nation is the worst when it comes to education and health. Okay you beat Bolivia and Paraguay. Truth is, you had it in the past, but you lost that position, long time ago. The number one 'private' Hospital(s), in Latin America are in the State of Sao Paulo and also the Universities. Other states of Brazil are more developed than your nation as a whole and defeat you when it comes to good hospitals and universities, where plenty of argies with money study, and don't go back after their study. I have seen that with my own eyes. There are also plenty of argies studying here in the US (Boston-MA, NY and Miami-FL) and guess what, most eventually stay. What does that tell you huh?
Chile scores higher than your nation in all points. Even Peru is beating you..laugh. Now all what I typed here are not from some crazy anti argie study, but numbers from the UN. You cannot always trust the UN, but in this case I trust them more than an Argentinian who followes it's government unaware. A government that “cook” it's economic/statistical numbers, who is jealous, stuck in the past and comes out with crazy socialist rhetoric about the Falklands, that was never theirs. Conclusion, that is the path to destruction.
so get real, take off your sunglasses, before it' really to late. At the otherside, I applaud your nation to go further with their ”fantasy pro che socialist rhetoric' and destroy itself ...:)....
the author is talking about recession and military budget cuts...is he talking about argentina or UK??
Dec 18th, 2009 - 07:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0A a “sad” sun... grow up Nicholas!!! You aren't in the kinder anymore!! :-)
Dec 18th, 2009 - 12:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I grew up when you get “realistic” :d
Dec 18th, 2009 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0it is very fortunate that there is no oil around the Falklands because it is extremely unlikely Argentina or the rest of South America would just sit there and happily allow Europe to steal what they see, as THEIR oil.
Dec 18th, 2009 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Islanders are now playing with fire....I hope they have a bucket ready ahahah
Yes nitro, Argentina will play petty games to bulley a country of 3,000. These childish tactics only make us stronger and more determined to stay British. What do Argentina believe will happen? A decade of these childish ploys and we will beg you to take us? Another one of those fantasies nitro...still living in a Fantasy.
Dec 18th, 2009 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not a decade for sure; perhaps 2 decades or 3 or more, who knows?? The time it takes we can wait. We will always be next of you waiting for a solution and waiting for your colonial masters to leave. Perhaps not you not your alienated generation will do it; but perhaps your children or your grandchildren will do the task and excercise selfdetermination asking your belicose masters to leave, so in future we can live together in peace and prosperity.
Dec 18th, 2009 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bellicose masters? Correct me if I am wrong, but was it not ARGENTINA who militarily invaded the Falkland Islands in 1982?
Dec 18th, 2009 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yes you are right!!
Dec 18th, 2009 - 11:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0but don´t forget that britain previosly invaded argentine malvinas in 1833; that´s the cause of conflict; britain is the cause with her imperialism, her colonialism, her hunger of domination all south atlantic at argentina expenses . Argentina is not at britain shores with military bases, britain is in argentina shores with military and warplanes threating us and trying to gain territorial advantages.
When kelpers ask their master to leave we will leave in peace, britain is the only cause of conflict. Kelper and argentines have the potential to be friends and partners; but please, don´t expect argentina to accept british presence, we will always fight against that foreign presence.
It´s kelpers choice, you can choose to be free and modern citizens without colonial masters so we can be friends; or you choose the conflict, being colonial subjetcs and accepting the british foreing domination.
Oh and shots were fired in 1833? No, none were fired. So much for bellicose! The illegal Buenos Aires (let's not forget that Argentina did not exist in 1833) garrison was removed peacefully. Most of the civilians stayed on, some of them for decades afterwards.
Dec 19th, 2009 - 12:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Of course imperialism was driving things in 1833, just like Argentine imperialism drove the conquest of the desert in the 1870s, however we are now in 2009, nearly 2010 and today in the age of the United Nations it is the Falkland Islanders self determination which counts above all else - and please don't try the implanted population or territorial integrity red herrings, because Argentina propaganda like that has been demolished time and again.
Yes, it is the “kelpers” choice. If they freely choose (which they have done many times) to retain the British link, well then so be it. Sadly this right is denied them by your own Argentine constitution, so how you can spout the self-serving tosh above about being friends if the British link is dropped etc beats me. Because of your country's stupidity in 1982, the Falkland Islanders are now once bitten and so twice shy.
As for choosing conflict, don't forget, everything was peace and light and friendship between the Falklands and Argentina until Juan Peron came along and screwed it all up. Sadly, Argentina has not really recovered from Juan Peron...
why Britanniamen insist on these cool islands !?
Dec 19th, 2009 - 03:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0training whales and penguens as spy there ???...or
may be to make a Finance Center which competes
against Hong Kong .. pardon Off-Shore countries !!??..
J.A. Roberts, you said:
Dec 19th, 2009 - 03:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0“”“””Oh and shots were fired in 1833? No, none were fired. So much for bellicose! The illegal Buenos Aires (let's not forget that Argentina did not exist in 1833) garrison was removed peacefully. Most of the civilians stayed on, some of them for decades afterwards.“”“”“
Thats only show your ignorance even of your own version of history. Do you mean that there was no invation becouse no fire was shoot?. Acording to what you said above Argentina did not exist in 1833, so what garrison did you removed? a spanish garrison?.
Look, in 1833 Argentina existed as an independent nation from 1816 officially, was in possetion of malvinas until 1833, and was recognized by britain as an independent nation in 1825 with a treaty of amity, which was a treaty that recognized in britain Argentina's independence with no mention or protest to Argentina's total control of sovereignty on malvinas islands.
That treaty was signed on 2,feb of 1825.
http://assets.cambridge.org/97805218/07791/excerpt/9780521807791_excerpt.pdf
About you second paragragh, when you say that ”“”“don't try the implanted population or territorial integrity red herrings, because Argentina propaganda like that has been demolished time and again.”“””
The UN decolonization committe recognize malvinas as a special case of colonialism that differs from other cases becouse of the sovereignty dispute. And i dont see people supporting islanders wishes other than sierra leone or fiji islands.
The rest of your comment was purelly nonesence.
I understand you roberts, sadly peron was a terrible event for you and for all british imperialists and colonialists; since peron we were no more another british colony.
Dec 19th, 2009 - 04:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Now it´s the same, you like Valenzuela are hoping for another Menem, but that´s won´t happen...Kristina 2011!!!
J.A. ROBERT, good to talk to you again, i must say that i have been investigating about those arguments of the islanders, obviously i will keep on doing it, it will takes years, any way i can have some conclutions.
Dec 19th, 2009 - 06:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0For being honest with my opinion, some of your arguments are very exigous, i have talking to my profesors, and they told me that some arguments are true, but there are also enough reasons to hold that we have rights on the islands, on the other hand it's very complicated to talk about the conflict by this forum, because the priblematic is almost never ending, if you want i can give my i mail, and keep us in touch.
I just want to say that what hapened the 3 of yanory of 1833 was a real invasion by bretain, we dont have to forget that the islands were already ocupated by argentina, so why onslow told them to low the argentine flag?, the san lorenzo treaty didn't recognize the islands as british eather, beside if we think it just for a couple of minutes, we can realise that how a incipient young nation like argentina in that time, would front the most powerful colonial power of the world?, i am sure if the authoritys didn't leave the islands in a pacefully way, i dont think john oslow would doubt one minute on killing all of them, the empires have always do that, the falklands malvinas woulden't by an eseption.
I will always hold that the solution to the conflict is debate, debate, and debate, i know it doesnt exist betwen us, but like all of us or not (argentines and islanders), the solution to the conflict must benefits both sides, because all of us have solid and legitim rights.
I hope your answer.
NICHOLAS, it's so funny how you keep on being the same ignorant arrogant, who wants to see only what you want.
Dec 19th, 2009 - 07:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you are so worryed about a future default by argentina, read the argentine newspapers and see the anouncement of president about the payments for next 2010.
Any way i dont think you are going to understand it, you wont never understand that we are not so ignorant and pathetic as you are, and we all know that we are not in any disnay land plan, we have serious problems since many years ego, but we have also great aspects like any other nation, on the other hand, if it makes you happy, keep on believing that we are so decadent and our future is catastrofic, that surelly we will became the poorest nation of latin america.
Y our view only shows the tipical arrogance of opulent societys, or may be in your case i should say, ex opulent societys, like my country, like it or not, to finish my comentary with your apocalipsis vitions, i am sure yuo must be a frind of lilita or of any other argentine speculator politic.
I f the future for aregntina is so bad, we will always recover from any crisis, we can teach you if you want, we have a lamentable experince on that , that was because of the irrisponsable authoritys that we had.
Lola typed: Kristina 2011!!!
Dec 19th, 2009 - 07:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Laugh...Isn't that the female version of Menem? Laugh...Oh you argies are so funny (morons)
Axel idiot, I'm not worried at all that your lousy country will default “again” on their debt. Actually I look forward again to see it collapse “again”, so I can type here again, what kind of moron you are.
Dec 19th, 2009 - 07:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0I find it just hiarious how clowns like you, juan and idiot nitro are so busy with a territory that doesn't and never belonged to your country, rather than fixing your crap between your “true” borders. How sure am I that your nation will default again? Very sure. Since the day your idiot president nationalized the pension system (poor argies, they already had nothing), it was a sign that Argentina is in deep trouble. It is already been proven by many “non-argentine” experts ( seekingalpha.com, you can read) that your government is an excellent cheater ( well, actually behind Greece) and an increddible low budget illusionist in creating fake numbers, “cooking” the books, so that idiots like you keep on believing the nonsense plus plus plus, important, can beg more for fresh funds, more debt. That you believe your own nonsense in the “argentinian” newspapers (gosh, they are not biased and in bed with the kirchner administration) doesn't surprise me, but to call yourself a “future” professor who study at an “excellent government” university is Hilarious..LAUGH. You will never recover from any crisises so long you don't face the true situation, and that's the case in your silly country. Here in the US we know we're in trouble and that's why we will recover. I bet your doesn't, for one worthless peso so I know you can pay me. Something what your country doesn't, you should be ashamed to be argentinian with a government like that and an irrisponsible population.
Luis, you should read what I write more carefully. I said the Buenos Aires garrison. You might think “Argentina” existed from 1816, but I think most serious historians agree that things were in a state of flux and did not really settle down until the constitution of 1853. Woodbine Parish signed the Treaty of Amity with whoever was in control of Buenos Aires at the time and they certainly did not call themselves “Argentina” then. Please show me where the UN consider the Falklands as a special case, because all the UN GA and SC resolutions I can find all treat the Falklands in exactly the same way as any other non self governing territory on the C24 list.
Dec 19th, 2009 - 08:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Axel, I don't think Argentina's so called “rights” are very solid and nor are they particularly legitimate. If the UN thought that the Argentine claim had any legitimacy they would have awarded the islands to Argentina a long time ago.
luis, I correct you; argentina born in 1810; 1816 was a formality, reality is 1810 when we became politicaly free from spain.
Dec 19th, 2009 - 09:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0That's interesting Billy. So who recognised “Argentina” in 1810? Or even 1816 for that matter?
Dec 19th, 2009 - 10:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0J.A. Roberts, if you set your anger of always wanting to have the truth aside, you will realize that if britain sign a treaty with Argentina, is in fact recognizing the Argentina's existence as a nation.
Dec 19th, 2009 - 11:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0More than that, i gave you a link from the Cambridge University that state the treaty signed between Great Britain and guess who? Argentina.
http://assets.cambridge.org/97805218/07791/excerpt/9780521807791_excerpt.pdf
“”“”“”Woodbine Parish signed the Treaty of Amity with whoever was in control of Buenos Aires at the time and they certainly did not call themselves “Argentina” then.“”“”“
Who was in control of Buenos Aires at the time then?. The spaniards? the indians?. May be you reffers to the United Provinces of the River Plate name, which means officially and legally Argentina.
J.A. Roberts, When you say ”whoever” was in control.... show how little you know about, our history, and yours.
http://assets.cambridge.org/97805218/07791/excerpt/9780521807791_excerpt.pdf
in the link above it is mentioned in the report of the decolonization committe the special and particular colonial situation. Page 11, nº1.
http://assets.cambridge.org/97805218/07791/excerpt/9780521807791_excerpt.pdf
It is mentioned again.
http://assets.cambridge.org/97805218/07791/excerpt/9780521807791_excerpt.pdf
In the link above it is mentioned the acknowledged of the “special and particular colonial situation”, which differed from others because of a sovereignty dispute between the Governments of Argentina and the United Kingdom.
I recomend you to read it all, its very interesting.
Yes Billy, our independence was in 1810, but i was avoiding giving further explanations, so i said 1816 when we were officially independents.
Nicholas: It's obvious that you haven't have a grasp on reality concerning South America, to simply ignore that most of Brasilian's are very poor and have major favelas that are unrivaled worldwide is absurd. Chile? only a few have wealth and the rest are living poorer than most Argentines, go to Mendoza and you will see that every Argentine have Chilean maids and laborers. Argentina has 5 million immigrants from Bolivia, Paraguay, Chile and even Peru and recently many from Brasil that work for less. If Chile had that amount of proportional immigrants taking work they be up the creek, people only see some nice buildings but not the slums nor the 500,000 Chileans that are living in Argentina looking for a better life. Peru is growing but to say that is better than Argentina only shows total ignorance on your part. Brasil is growing but only a few enjoy it, go to the majority which is multi-cultural background and you will dire poverty. The whites who are a minority today control more than 90% of the wealth, that being said I could point out countless of facts but you won't learn about it by merely reading some propaganda's instead of serious reports and actually visiting the aforementioned countries in which I had the privileged.
Dec 19th, 2009 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nicholas, you seem ignorant and your English SUCKS! As for your knowledge of Argentina, its' technical capabilities, you know even less. Argentina is spending its money in developing its own own technology, rebuilding its industries that were victimized by neo-liberal IMF promoted policies. Argentina is working hard to become self sufficient. Time will show this. It has taken back control of its aircraft industry, reactivated its shipyards, (did you read about the U$S500M Venezuelan contract by chance, and that is only a small part), rebuilding its Nuclear Industry, it is a major producer of software, etc. etc. etc. I have no doubt that with the current policy, it will be building Submarines as once planned, as well as missile technology, which has been demonstrated in recent news. Argentina has done it before, it can do it now, and will always be able to do it., as long as there is political support for As for Chile, they don't develop or build anything, they just buy it. With all “their money”, they are not part of the G-20, but Argentina is. In Chile, the state does not exist; you must pay for what you want out of your pocket one way or another. I was surprised to hear a Chilean political talk about the debate in Chile over having free and open University Education, something that Argentina has offered to its citizens for 60 years. And to disappoint you even more, they will not be on your side in the next war. What more should I say to educate you?
Dec 19th, 2009 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Several keep on harping back to who did what to who in1833,1810-16 and before etc. If you go back in history of course you can find grounds for both Britain and Argentina(Spain) to say they were in the right. But then you can also find grounds to say that all Argentines of european origin should leave etc and similar all over the world probably. Get a grip with reality please - this 1s 2009/2010 and what matters in the democratic world of today are the wishes of peoples who live in a place.That is why the UN/NATO etc has intervened in Africa,central Europe etc so many times in the last 30 years - on behalf of PEOPLES.
Dec 19th, 2009 - 06:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What matters today in the Falklands and is paramount - are the democratic wishes(not interests) of the people of the Islands. That is the key issue. Yes the feelings and views of Argentina need to be taken into account as you are next door neighbour - and somehow a solution reached that you can live with also - but the key principle is and will be - the principle of self-determination - the wishes of the people.
If your real key issue is Britain in the S Atlantic - then back off from the aggression and britain will have no need to be militarily in the S Atlantic and we can continue gradually moving towards a suitable form of mini-state Independence.
Luis,
Dec 19th, 2009 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina is not the only legal heir to the United Provinces. You could just as easily argue today that Woodbine Parish signed a treaty with Uruguay, because Uruguay is also heir to the United Provinces. You might have been independent in 1810, which countries recognised this?
Your first link is to a special committee resolution which also refers to many other GA and SC resolutions all of which enshrine the Falkland Islanders right to self determination, something which Argentina still refuses to recognise. This resolution also reaffirms the “non use of force” principle, which Argentina patently ignored in 1982. You can't pick and choose the bits of international law which suit you. The decolonisation of the Falkland Island is special only in as far as a sovereignty dispute exists between the UK and Argentina, the options for the Falkland Islanders are no different to what they are for the people of any other non self governing territory. Argentina has proved time and again that is is unfaithful and untrustworthy. The irony is despite all fo this Argentina was on the cusp of getting the islands by the beginning of the 1980s but then you invaded and now it's doubtful that you will ever get them. You can't just set the clock back and pretend that the 1982 invasion did not happen.
Your second and third links are about the special committee reaffirming the the principle of self determination as a fundamental right but the irony of this seems to be lost on you. It seems you simply did a google search for the words “special and particular” and didn't bother to read the rest...
Islander you said:
Dec 20th, 2009 - 04:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0“”“”What matters today in the Falklands and is paramount - are the democratic wishes(not interests) of the people of the Islands.“”“”
According to who?.
Then you said:
“”“”If your real key issue is Britain in the S Atlantic - then back off from the aggression and britain will have no need to be militarily in the S Atlantic and we can continue gradually moving towards a suitable form of mini-state Independence. “”“”
Islander, you are britain!!!!.
If you need an ophthalmologist, gynaecologist, ENT surgeon, orthopaedic surgeon, psychiatrist, and oral surgeon you have to wait for visiting specialists that comes from the uk or fly to chile.
Your seniors magistrate John Trevaskis came from england. so he is the guy on criminal defence, civil and family proceedings, Military Law, immigration tribunals, Licensing Law and Fishery prosecutions. Your chief justice other nonresident Christopher Gardner.
You TV service is provided by the armed forces. Your economy is based on the numers of fishing licence you can sell and the “falklands islands company”, a publicly uk quoted company on the London Stock Exchange.
The islands director of finance or financial secretary Keith Padgett came from the uk.
David Waugh is General Manager of the Falkland Islands Development Corporation, came from london.
Steve Dent,
I can put names all day, to demostrate those who came from london, are you doctors, specialist, bussines man, etc.
J.A. Roberts, you are absolutely wrong. You said:
“”“”Argentina is not the only legal heir to the United Provinces. You could just as easily argue today that Woodbine Parish signed a treaty with Uruguay, because Uruguay is also heir to the United Provinces.... “””
First, Uruguay was anexed to Brazil from the year 1821 until 25 august 1825 (after the treaty of amity) so they do not formed part of our nation at that time. Secondly, we are still legally the United Province of the River Plate.
I do not pretend that 1982 war did not happen, like i do not pretend the 30.000 dissapeared argentine people in that time did not happen. You should not pretend that wining the war will let you owner those islands.You should not pretend that losing the war will take us our rights over those islands.
J.A. Roberts, you should read more carefully the reports of the UN decolonization committe.
GUYS, the U.N. doesn't recognize te islands as british eather nor argentine, they recognize that there is a conflict betwen both countrys around the sovereignty of the falkland malvinas islands, and it calls both sides to find a solution to the conflict by negociation.
Dec 20th, 2009 - 05:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Bretain and the F.I.G refuse to discuss about the conflict, and our goverment ignores the islanders, the posture of the three goverments is pathetic, the only one debate about the sovereignty is this forum, it's so sad, as long as the three parts dont recognize the legitimate rights of all of them, the conflict is never going to finish.
If argentina wouldn't have solid rights, the U.N. wouldnt call both sides to negociate, and if bretain and islanders wouldn't have legitimate rights on the island, the U.N. would tell argentina to drop on it's soveriegn clame, any way powerful nations do whatever they want, it has always been like that, and i think it will always be, so the status quo in the islands could remain for houndred of years surelly.
Luis, it's not about winning or losing the war. It is about your invasion in the first place. Morally, if you did have any rights, you lost them at that moment. Whatever the UN C24 committee reports say, they ALWAYS refer back to the relevant UN GA and SC resolutions and all of those resolutions very clearly give the Falkland Islanders (and the peoples of all non self governing territories) the right to self determination. You even put a link up above for a special committee notice which has the title “SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON DECOLONIZATION APPROVES TEXT REAFFIRMING PRINCIPLE OF SELF-DETERMINATION AS FUNDAMENTAL HUMAN RIGHT” and perhaps you might like to re-read the action on this draft. It is to recommend to the GA that “...there was no alternative to the principle of self-determination, which was also a fundamental human right.” I think it is you might need to read the C24 reports and all of the GA and SC resolutions more carefully.
Dec 20th, 2009 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Axel, actually the UN recognises the islands as British, it was the UK who voluntarily added the Falkland islands to the C24 list and as yet the UN has not removed British sovereignty.
Sadly you are correct about this being one of the only forums for discussion. Until someone makes a concession there will be deadlock. Personally I think the ball is in Argentina's court. The UK negotiated with Argentina through the 70s, the navigation agreements etc and if it was not for the invasion it is very likely the Islands would be Argentine now. Luis says it's about winning and losing, but it's not. It's about trust, and when Argentina invaded trust was lost. You and others have proposed a formula, where sovereignty is transferred to Argentina and then immediately the Islands are given independence. A workable solution, but the trust is not there so unlikely to happen. Even from more recent experience, the 1999 agreements and the 1990 fisheries and 1995 hydrocarbon have all been broken by Argentina. Given all of that how can the Falkland Islanders trust you to do what you say? I think it is up to Argentina to start speaking directly to the FIG and building trust and do so consistently. That way the next generations of Falkland Islanders might not see Argentina in the same way that their parents do.
Luis,
Dec 20th, 2009 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We are only 3000people - please show me a rural town in your country with population 3000 that has all its own locally born specialists and professionals with nobody working from big cities covering those type of jobs - also oin our 3000 we have to run not just a little town administration but a national government one. o we import the proffessionals we need - just like a small remote town in Argentina - that town from a city - us we have to get from another country. Since many of our laws and legal systems are British origen we recruit from britain - that is only sensible and practical.
Axel arg,
Dec 21st, 2009 - 02:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0You said:
<<GUYS, the U.N. doesn't recognize te islands as british eather nor argentine, they recognize that there is a conflict betwen both countrys around the sovereignty of the falkland malvinas islands, and it calls both sides to find a solution to the conflict by negociation.>>
This is not a valid statement. The UN actually DOES recognise the Falklands as a British Territory and the UK as the Administering Power which is obliged to report to the UN on a regular basis what progress is being made towards the inhabitants achieving a “Full measure of Self-Government” and what is being done to ensure that the inhabitants are being assisted to develop their natural resources for their own exclusive benefit. The UK does report on these matters on a regular basis to the UN.
The very reason that the Falklands was included on the C24 list of territories to be “de-colonised” is because it was (and is) a non-self-governing country under British Sovereignty that had not yet achieved a full measure of self-government.
The UN recognised, at Argentina's request, that Argentina disputed British Sovereignty. This did not and never has meant that the UN agreed that Argentina had a legitimate claim it was merely acknowledging the existence of the situation that pertained and of which it had been advised. It invited the parties to find a peaceful solution to the declared problem. Nothing more, nothing less. The UN does not make judgements on sovereignty or otherwise in International Law. This is a matter for the ICJ where Argentina could if it chose to do so request a non binding ruling on the legitimacy or otherwise of its claim. This would not involve the UK being bound by any such decision. Argentina has never sought to have its claim legitimised in any body qualified to give such an opinion, it tends instead to shout about its claim in any meeting or forum that cares to listen except the very one that could in fact make a ruling. This rather silly performance is carried on as a diversion to avoid any challenge to it legitimacy. It neither strengthens or weakens its claim one way or the other to use these forums as a sounding board for its claim whether they support the proposition or not. He who shouts the loudest does not always win the game.
The British position on sovereignty has never changed from the very outset of Argentina's claim at the UN in the very beginning. The British representative said then in the early 1960's at the UN:
<<el representante británico afirmó que su gobierno estaba convencido de que sus actividades “de épocas anteriores habían sido suficientes para darles buenos títulos sobre las Islas Falkland por ocupación”. Además,
el establecimiento de la soberanía británica mediante una abierta, continua, efectiva y pacífica ocupación por casi un siglo y medio daba al Reino Unido un claro título prescriptivo. La Argentina no había protestado constantemente desde 1833, como había dicho su representante, sino que había guardado silencio por espacio de hasta treinta y cinco año. Los isleños no tenían relaciones con la Argentina ni las deseaban aparte de las relaciones amistosas normales entre países vecinos...Los isleños eran quienes debían determinar en definitiva su propio status y...el Gobierno del Reino Unido, que no tenía dudas respecto de su soberanía, se atenía al principio de la libre determinación (CARI I, 181).
Which roughly translated says;
the British representative affirmed that his government was convinced that their activities “of past times had been sufficient to give it good title to the Falkland Islands by occupation”. In addition, the establishment of British sovereignty by means of an open, effective and peaceful occupation of almost a century and a half gave to the United Kingdom a clear prescriptive title. Argentina had not protested constantly from 1833, as its representative had said, but had kept silence for periods of up to thirty five years. The islanders did not have relations with Argentina, nor wished to, aside from the normal friendly relations between neighbouring countries... the islanders themselves are the ones who have to really determine their own status and... the Government of the United Kingdom has no doubts in respect of its own sovereignty, and had always relied on the principle of free determination (CARI I, 181).>>
Even in the 1970's when the Foreign Office used all of its considerable wiles to give to Islands to Argentina, come what may, the above position did not change from the point of view of the UK Parliament. It was free determination then, was in 1982 and remains the same today.
So the Islands do not hang suspended, like the coffin of the prophet (blessings be upon him!), in some sort of limbo between one sovereignty and another but are firmly under British sovereignty unless or until the Islanders themselves decide otherwise.
J.A. Roberts, you said:
Dec 21st, 2009 - 04:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0“”“”it's not about winning or losing the war. It is about your invasion in the first place. Morally, if you did have any rights, you lost them at that moment.“”“”
What makes you think that?.
Then you said:
“”“”You even put a link up above for a special committee notice which has the title “SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON DECOLONIZATION APPROVES TEXT REAFFIRMING PRINCIPLE OF SELF-DETERMINATION AS FUNDAMENTAL HUMAN RIGHT”“””
It seems you didnt read the full title.
Members Conclude Consideration of Falkland Islands (Malvinas) Question
The non self-governing territories are 16 not 11. This report consider that those evelen territories must be decolonized acording to resolution 1514 while with malvinas the UN acknowledged the “special and particular colonial situation”, which differed from others because of a sovereignty dispute between the Governments of Argentina and the United Kingdom and calls for negotiation between the UK and Argentina.
the you said:
“”“”actually the UN recognises the islands as British, it was the UK who voluntarily added the Falkland islands to the C24 list and as yet the UN has not removed British sovereignty.“”“”
The UN does not recognize the islands as british, they recognize its british administration, not its ownership. While would they call Argentina and UK for negotiation on sovereignty?. Perhaps you can show me your source of UN recognizing british ownership of the islands.
J.A. Roberts , what have to do in first place that the uk added the islands in the c24 list?. The uk wants decolonization, but at their “own” way. Thats means the actual status quo.
Islander, you described exactly the definition of colonization. The people who suposedly are a different entity of your “islanders community” are the ones who cure you, you cook for you, who clean the streets, who govern you, who protect you, who won games in your name, etc...
A small remote town in Argentina does not work like that. For example, a remote town in Santa Cruz province, does not need to full the town with porteños (Buenos Aires), they have their own police (Santa Cruz police), Their own ministry of education, their own ministry of health, their own ministry of justice, etc...
And even if they would needed porteños, they wont relegate of their nationality. You are british but you want to be something else, while you are not different from those who live in London, Liverpool, Glasgow, etc. becouse they actually came from those places.
Expat, you said:
“”“The UN actually DOES recognise the Falklands as a British Territory and the UK as the Administering Power ”“”
Pleaseee, where the UN recognize malvinas as a british territorie???? Where????? Give me the link.
Well, what can I say? Gibraltar, Malvinas, Guyana and any possible piece of land or rock have the “right” to be British, and when it is too expensive to administer the land, just ask them to join the “common”wealth so you can still f... them, or otherwise ask your cousins and today masters, the yankees to do it for you, so they can f... other non-complying countries.The South Pole, the North Pole, everything should belong to them, so they can share it with their masters. In the other hand we've got the Argentinians taking for themselves a minuscule little island inside Uruguayan territory because they need it SO MUCH!! Just to show that they are bigger boys.
Dec 21st, 2009 - 10:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0No sympathy for any of you both.
Bla bla bla, my english is poor according to you, because it's the only weak and baseless arguement you can come up to combat the truth what I type here about your nation. Second, Your english is worse, so spare me your crap about my language. I advise you to go back to your “ so called excellent” government sponsored free for all school(s) where they “teach english and history”..Laugh. Third, Brazil, Chile and Peru are poor nations, but compare to your lousy nation, they are better organized, understand true micro & macro economics, and they are on right track to become more, better and faster developed, something what you clowns there can't stand and perhaps just cannot understand. Both nations have work to do, but I applaud them for doing the work what they suppose to do. Rather then bashing them, you idiots should learn from them, but no..you folks are way to arrogant and incompetent to learn something new.
Dec 21st, 2009 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fourth, though many Argentinians have left the sunshine state since the crackdown on illegal immigration (ugh, they still do a lousy job here, thanks to PC language liberals), there are still to many Argentinians illegal in the US, according the Miami Herald, NY Post, but struggle. Also according to the same newspapers many more Argies in Argentina, socialist paradise, struggle to buy food (meat, bread, milk), clothes, shoes, etc. and struggle to believe their own government, specially about inflation. Oh wait they are lying too right? of course..Laugh. Same newspapers also explain why more argies are waiting in lines like dogs in front of the gates of the Italian and Spanish embassy to get the heck out of there ...gee, wonder why...and and and there are more Argies living and working in Neighboring countries like Chile, Peru and Brazil, where they work for someone or are able to have their own business (Import-Export, Restaurant or an Ice cream store under an italian name (they are ashamed of their Argentine Identity..oh wait, they don't have one..laugh). Anyway, There are more Argies outside than foreingers in Argentina. All of you fake patriot argies here have to ask themself why many ordinary middle class argies are desperate to get the heck out of their country. Any idea? Of course not, you're to proud for the truth. Answer is clear, they don't believe but KNOW that they no longer have or cannot have a future in their homeland. Poor people. That's the truth and I know by reading your comments that truth hurts for you idiots. You all know, but can't or wont admit because of you're blindless and fake patriotic nonsense and fantasies. But hey, again Keep on coming with those comments, it makes me LAUGH harder at you idiots...LAUGH.
Luis
Dec 21st, 2009 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON DECOLONIZATION APPROVES TEXT REAFFIRMING PRINCIPLE OF SELF-DETERMINATION AS FUNDAMENTAL HUMAN RIGHT”“”“
”It seems you didnt read the full title.“ Actually, that is the full title above.
This document you link to is a C24 working paper for a recommendation to the General Assembly, whatever is above ”Action on Draft“ is discussion, nothing more. Please read the ”Action on Draft“ again, that is what has been agreed as a recommendation to the General Assembly, and there is says absolutely nothing about the Falklands being a ”special or particular colonial situation“. Nothing. In fact, as I have stated above, it recommends that there be no alternative to self determination.
And another thing, it is generally accepted that C24 reports/resolutions/recommendations are not a source of international law, however General Assembly and Security Council resolutions are. The GA and SC have never accepted that decolonisation in the Falkland Islands is any different to decolonisation in any other non self governing territory.
”The UN does not recognize the islands as british, they recognize its british administration, not its ownership.“ Actually (as in ”de hecho“ and not ”actualmente”) the UN does recognise the Falklands as British territory. It is you who asserts the opposite, so I think it is you who should show us exactly where the GA or SC have specifically denied British sovereignty in the Falkland islands.
Expat Kelper above asks why Argentina does not go to the ICJ for a ruling? What not? Can you answer that for us Luis? Argentina nothing to lose and much to gain by a ruling in its favour. If your case is so strong why do you not go? If the ICJ rules in your favour then it would strengthen your case at the UN. Why do you not seek a ruling?
Luis,
Dec 21st, 2009 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Colonisation? We invite these professionals in and we pay them with our money, our elected Govt can(and has done at times) sack them as well! No difference to importing say Chilean or Argentine professionals if we wanted.
How about a definition of colonisation - the occupation and control of a land AGAINST the wishes if its inhabitants- that would be the Islands if Argentina ever took over.
Modern Day Democracy has a basic foundation stone - the freely expressed wishes of a people to choose the government of their choice. We do it, You do it, Britain does it and many others.
NICHOLAS, your comment is only one more show of your lack of objetivity, the only thing you do is, insult my country, and you think that only your truth is valid, you dont eaven respect the opinion of the rest of the people, i dont mean that you have to coincid with every one's arguments, but like or not you should respect them.
Dec 22nd, 2009 - 05:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0On the other hand before criticising another country, you should make a self critic about what happened in the U.S.A, you said that we should be ashamed of our goverment, and you called us ,irrisponsable population.
Firstly Cristina Kirchner has the 30% of popularity, two years ego her husband has the 87% of popularity, now they very rejected, there are reasons for that, as you can see we are not so proud of our goverment like you think, beside talking about irrisponsable population, let me remind you that your soposed responsable population, voted bush twice, and took your country to the biggest crisis after the great depression.
Any way i think that people are not guilty of economic crisis, when people votes a candidat, it's because it trusts him, if the president finally is a corrupter or useless, the responsability doesnt belong to the people, it belongs to the politician, the populations are not stupid in any country.
On the other hand, i think that the proud that some one can feel for it's country, it's not base only on economic progress, notwistanding argentina is a rich nation or poor, i will always love it, because it's the place were i was born, where i grown up, and it's the country of my family.
About our furture, may be your right and we are going to have another default, crisis crisis and crisis, but we will always recover from that, it's not the first one, we are used to have crisis every 6 years because of the irrisponsable authoritys that we had.
To finish my comentary, i recognize the good and the bad aspects of my country, you should do the same and recognize the responsability of your ex authoritis in this big crisis, if you dont do it, like or not ,you have no so much moral authority to cricicise another country, not to mention about insulting
EXPAT KELPER, thank you for your information, i will find out about it, any way i have much reasons to hold what say about the sovereignty of the islands.
Dec 22nd, 2009 - 05:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0hey islander; how many times we told you in this forum that we don´t want to controll you, that´s your task; we believe in freedom, selfdetermination (but the real one), republic and federalism; british presence as a colonial and militarist power is against our peace and freedom. We don´t want to controll you, controll yourself your business, use your selfdetermination to be yourself like any other south american society. I don´t understand why you prefer to be an alienated rural community instead a developed anglosaxon society by your own and in peace and prosperity with your region.
Dec 24th, 2009 - 01:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0why there is not a progressive party; why there is no labour party??
kelpers workers and middle class would be the winners of a developed society living in a no-conflict situation. In Malvinas there could be living at least half the population of Tierra del Fuego, receiving every year 500K tourists, most landbased; and oil, fishing, etc.
Why you don´t think in kelper nation?? for me it´s amazing.
“We don´t want to controll you...” I'm sorry Billy, but that is not what your Argentine constitution says.
Dec 24th, 2009 - 08:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the kelpers feel that argentine constitution is an obstacule to solve the conflict, well, they can ask anytime to argentine society to change it; why not?? if they offer us that they will ask the british to leave, that would be perfectly possible and we will hear you. Argentina is not the obstacule to solve the conflict, Argentina is the opportunity, the obstacule is british presence and kelpers mentality. When they start thinking like free people, like citizen, they will solve the situation without much effort.
Dec 25th, 2009 - 12:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Argentina is not the obstacule to solve the conflict...” Most thinking people would say exactly the opposite. Argentina caused the conflict in the 1940s and it is Argentina who sustains it.
Dec 26th, 2009 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The conflict started and is sustained by britain since 1833.
Dec 26th, 2009 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps some ignorant people could be confused by the fact that in the 40´s the conflict entered a new phase with the creation of UN and the begining of the decolonization process in the post WW2 world.
J.A ROBERT AND BILLY, the main reason why this conflict still remains, is because of the three parts (argentina, u.k and the f.i.g).
Dec 27th, 2009 - 04:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentinas goverment ignores the islanders, they are not included in the negociation, i think it's a big mistake, on the other hand the u.k. and the f.i.g dont want to discuss about the sovereignty issue, there is no debate in absolut about it, each part of the conflict is an obstacle, it seems like if they actually want to remain the status quo, the only one good news that rode lately, is that ypf is going to explore that bassin of the malvinas-falkland, that's a great news not only for the islanders, it's very good for us too, if is it found oil and gas, we will profit it.
Axel, I invite you to read what I write in “Father Christmas arrives for Lan Chile with contract for 30 Airbus A 320”; there you will read what I think about that argentina ignores islanders; I think you are wrong.
Dec 27th, 2009 - 05:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0YPF will be exploring Malvinas basin but outside the unilateral exclusion zone imposed by britain.
BILLY, i didnt find your comentary, on the other hand about the posture of ignoring the islanders, i respect that you dont agree with me, but this is what i really think.
Dec 27th, 2009 - 09:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0About exploring the bassin of the islands, notwithstanding is not inside of the exclusion zone, the fact of exploring the bassin is a great news, we need more oil and gas, luckilly it was found an important bassin in neuquen, but we must know all the potential that we have in the whole country.
here you have my comments.
Dec 27th, 2009 - 11:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2009/12/24/father-christmas-arrives-for-lan-chile-with-contract-for-30-airbus-a-320
Argentina and the Malvinas is like China and Taiwan. The big bully (China / Argentina) wants to take over the small child (Taiwan / Malvinas) because there may be oil and wealth off her (Taiwan / Malvinas) shores. This is nothing more than a resources grab.
Dec 29th, 2009 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mind you, no other country in the world would be foolish enough to spend so many millions on securing 3,000 people. With great economic decisions like that, no wonder Argentina's government wants its people to think of the Falklands instead of their own economic woes. This is called political misdirection. Hitler blamed the Jews for Germany's economic woes. Argentina blames the Malvinas.
As for what the Malvinas' population may think, bullies don't care.
Do you know the history of taiwan? Do you know what happened there?
Dec 30th, 2009 - 01:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0BILLY, i rode your comentary, i must say that i dont agree with your view, any way every opinion are respectable, but my vition is diferent.
Dec 30th, 2009 - 05:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0I dont like the posture of thet three goverments, in this way, the conflict is never going to finish, or may be in 100 years, i just hope i am wrong, and the three goverments understand they must find a fair solution to the conflict wich benefits the three parts, because they all have solid rights on the islands, i have studyed the problematic all my life, i keep on doing it, eaven i could know about the arguments of the islanders, that's why i hold that the solution must benefits all the parst of the conflict. HAPPY NEW YEAR FOR EVERY ONE.
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