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Falklands: full support for Argentina from Latinamerican and Caribbean leaders
Argentine President Cristina Kirchner said on Monday Latin American and Caribbean leaders backed her objections to oil exploration in the disputed Falkland Islands as drilling of the first well began on Monday. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesYES! The diplomacy will win !
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 03:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has not full support, there are many neutral countries in latinamerica. the headline of this news should be more specific
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 03:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0I love how nitrojuan and his ill believe that Argentina will have control over the Falkland Islands anytime soon. Their probably disappointed that they won't go to war, he was after all happy about the death of a British official. Even if Britain gave the Islands to them, they'll be faced with the problem of having an entire English population on their lands. Perhaps, I'll be wrong though. The Falkland Islanders would probably leave their homes when they notice a decrease in standard of living when the Argentine economy tanks again, or when placed under ineffective, unreliable governors, or they'll probably ask for independence. After all, being involved in a war by a cowardly dictatorship, who thought Britain wasn't ready to defend itself, who almost tried to kill the Islanders, leaves people a little sore. <br /><br /><br /><br />
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 04:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0<br /><br /><br /><br />
Then again, since their claims are so frivolous, they'll most likely lose, just like how they should lose for harming Uruguay with their other frivolous claims. After all, you don't see Canada arguing that they should own that french island of the coast of Newfoundland, despite that every reason the Argentine claim over the Falkland could easily apply for Canada. Then again, Canada does things better.
2 Gianni: Full support means all the countries who sent representation to the Mexico meeting: Antigua y Barbuda, Bahamas, Barbados, Belice, Bolivia, Brasil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominica, Ecuador, El Salvador, Granada, Guatemala, Guyana, Haití, Jamaica, México, Nicaragua, Panamá, Paraguay, Perú, República Dominicana, San Kitts y Nevis, San Vicente y las Granadinas, Santa Lucia, Surinam, Trinidad y Tobago, Uruguay y Venezuela...
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 04:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Guatemala was not invited because the constitutional authorities are not in control of the country now.
USA and Canada were not invited because they are not Latin American.
madtv #3:
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 04:29 am - Link - Report abuse 01. I have not doubt about we will recover our islands (with diplomacy)
2. I could not be happy of the death of everyone (brit or argie)
3. We couldnt have any problem with an inmigrant community in our lands (We have welsh in Chubut Province, 45% italian descendant in Buenos Aires, germans in Bariloche and Cordoba, etc. etc.) that what the escence of Argentinians.
4. I really change my opinion about capacity of the islanders, they not need (like us in Tierra del Fuego) the Federal coparticipate (royalties oils) their capacity of autosufficient is admirable. They could be an autonomous state.
5. My generation will not justify the idiot war of the idiot Militar JUnta in 1982, but if they wanted to kill them, they had just done it.
6. I dont know if Canada do the things worse or better, Canada and their problems are in the North Atlantic, we are in the SOuth Atlantic.
7. I am in Ushuaia (capital of Tierra del Fuego Antarctica & South Altantic Islands) that includes Malvinas, this is a prosperous province with good development and democtratic system, the different of Pirate Governor in Malvinas is that we elect our governor.
8. You must visit first and then you can talk about the situation. you just compare with your another world!
Sorry, my mistake... Honduras was not invited, Guatemala indeed was
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 04:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0I cant believe what our president have obteined, a strong condemnation against the violation of the UK of our sovereign, that it includes to 33 Latam countries of which many are of the Commonwealth. The next step have to includes all Asia, EU, Africa ! Marches of protests in the whole world, in order that this nevermore repeats in the Human History and will be an example of the 21st century evolution.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 05:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0NITROJUAN, i don't understand what u mean when u state “we will recover our islands with diplomacy.” possession is 9/10 of the law. latin american diplomacy can not make the uk do anything. international law is not enforcible.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 06:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't understand where Argentina gets its funny ideas from. The islands are the size of Kent, Surrey and Sussex combined (population 4 million), and had a population of no more than 103 - all at Port Louis - before the British arrived in 1833. <br />
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 06:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0<br />
The United Provinces of Rio de la Plata had an administration at Port Louis - then Spanish territory - intermittently from 1826-1832. Spain did not even recognise Argentina as independent until 1859, and the Argentine administration was established for too short a time for the Spanish title to pass by prescription.<br />
<br />
When Latin Americans moan about 'colonialism' I can't take them seriously. I won't, either, until the descendants of imported Conquistadors hand the continent over to President of Bolivia Evo Morales, who is officially the Apu Mallku of what used to be the state of Tawantinsuyu.
Corrections
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 08:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0At its peak Vernet's settlement had a population of 103. This was reduced to 27 at the time that the British returned in 1833. In 1831, following the Lexington raid, the vast majority of the population took the opportunity to leave, claiming that Vernet had misled them and escaped the miserable conditions on the island. Duncan arrested the 8 senior members of the settlement accusing them of piracy. All were given passage to Montevideo.
It was then further reduced to 14 by events unconnected with the British return. In August of 1833, one “Gaucho” Rivero led a band of 7 others in a murder spree, killin the 5 senior members of the settlement. The population fled to Bleaker island. One of the murderers was subsequently killed by his compatriots and the rest were rounded up by Lt Smith in January 1834 and deported.
The United Provinces of Rio de la Plata didn't have any sort of administration at Port Louis apart from about a month October - November 1832. Vernet's settlement was entirely a private venture, one further complicated by the fact that Vernet asked the British permission first.
“had approved a document supporting Argentina in the territorial dispute, according to Argentine diplomatic sources.”
Lets see what it says first.
Oh dear, a bunch of crime ridden, drug cartel run governments are threatening the UK with their pea shooters and spud guns. Excuse me while I go soil my draws.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 09:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Please, do yourself a favour and get rid of your corrupt politicians. You have more to gain through trade with the Falkland Islands rather than this pointless, ineffective episode. Is there an Argentine election in 2011 or am I just being cynical.
The British legal claim goes back to 1690 and the 'de facto' claim to 1833. If possession is indeed 9/10ths of the law, then the islands are British .... and likely to remain so despite posturing by mad socialists and banana boat republics.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0A couple of corrections here. 10justinkuntz isn't entirely correct when he says there was no River Plate administration at Port Louis until1832. The River Plate started exercising governmental power in 1826, and it continued under Vernet until the Americans threw his administration off what was then Spanish territory. It had been the Spanish settlement (removed 1811), not Vernet's, which had a peak population of 103. Mestivier re-established the administration in November 1832, but he was murdered almost immediately, and the British came back in January 1833. What they did, in law, then and subsequently, was to repossess the British possession at Port Egmont and take first possession of the rest: save for whatever had been Spanish territory, which the British acquired by prescription against no word of protest by Spain. Another correction is that the British legal claim doesn't go back to 1690,it goes back to first landfall in 1765 at Port Egmont.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is amazing, Argentine claims are non-justified. They should actually read History books, instead of what they wish to believe. The British have been Diplomatic, and they were very Diplomatic in 1982, when they removed there patrol boats, Only to be stabbed in the back by the Argentine masses.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They're only interest in the Falklands again due to the huge diposits of oil situated in the sea bed. If the oil deposits were in Argentine waters, i am sure Britian would not have a problem with them drilling.
I hope it doesn't escalate intop war again, The British would easily win hands down.
I cant believe how hypercritical Argentina is. They keep talking about how Britain are breaking UN resolutions, while they completely ignore the Falkland Islanders right to self-determination. Also they have placed an economic shipping blockade on the Falklands, while they have signed UN Laws of the Sea which state that any innocent ships can pass through waters freely. Lets not forget that Argentina keep claiming the Falklands are a colony, when it isnt, but if they ever get the Falklands, it will be become a colony. They will have a British population to control. It will never happen, but I would hate to see the corruption, all of that money coming out of the Falklands to line the pockets of the government officials and the President.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And nitrojuan, the Falkland Islands will never become part of Argentina, I can guarantee it. If Argentina believe so much in the UN, they will fail because of the peoples right to self-determination. Argentina's claim is weak and there is a reason why they dont go to the Hague and that they will only take it to the UN forum, because it isnt strong enough to support itself. And to hear Chavez's comments is quite laughable.
Michael
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To correct you.
Vernet's settlement did peak at around 100, the ratio of permanent/semi-permanent members is difficult to define. Most chose to leave in 1831, claiming Vernet had placed them there under false pretences.
Vernet's expedition of 1826 was a failure and did not establish a permanent presence. He didn't establish a permanent settlement till the successful 1828 expedition.
To describe Vernet's enterprise as a River Plate administration is a misnomer. When it suited him he claimed to be working under the asupices of the United Provinces, equally when it suited him he claimed to be working for the British. The truth is he played one off against the other.
Mestivier's administration was the only Argentine appointment, properly gazetted for a Governor of the islands. And you're right he didn't last more than a month.
The 1690 date is also accurate, as that is the date that the islands were claimed by John Strong, when he landed and formally claimed them. First undisputed landfall was 1690. John Hawkins may have landed much earlier.
with great surprise and joy Argentina was supported by the Latin American countries received the recognition of their rights to the islands .... but that's better than that in many forums around the world people are in favor of Argentina ... (eg read comments in the newspaper “El Pais” in Spain). The people in the world are tired of British abuse, its piracy, its imperialism ... their lack of respect for international law ..... may impose what they want by force, but someday the world will say enough ......
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 016 Justinkuntz - It's not clear to what extent John Strong's dealings on the islands were good enough to establish first title to any of them, let alone all, inasmuch as there has to be a sufficiency of governmental action “a titre de souverain”. Don't forget, the islands are the size of three English counties.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 017mbc - Forgive me for being indelicate, but talk of piracy and imperialism is ill-taken by (or on behalf of) a population most of whom are the great-grandchildren of imported Italians, while nearly all the rest are descended from imported Conquistadors. I'm sure President Morales of Bolivia might have something to say about the role that the inadvertent spread of smallpox had in consolidating the position of the extracontinental invaders at the expense of his indigenous ancestors, but I'll leave him to say it!
People YOU could create their own History or version of the facts but please dont be the remain of a weak british empire... World change in an global village.. (primates!) Today we, argentines, are so happy, but we have a large way to recover our islands !
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The burden of what I'm saying, 19nitrojuan, is: don't talk 'empire' to the British or anyone else, because you're as indigenous to the Americas - and as European - as I am. There is s saying in my country: the pot shouldn't call the kettle black.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Michael I didn't make any claim about its worth, your comment was about first landing, not 1st settlement. It is nonetheless a fact that Britain has made a claim on the islands since 1690.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 01:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And Nitrojuan, the British Empire is long gone, it is deceased, it is no more, it has shuffled off this mortal coil, it is relegated to the dusty pages of history. You are also a product of the Spanish Empire, your own country conquered the lands of indigenous peoples in the 19th Century.
And this is the 21st Century so whining about the British Empire, when you're equally guilty of such behaviour in the past is the utmost hypocrisy.
Yeah the world changed a long time ago but not it seems Argentina. You can't recover what was never yours.
and descends from the ape man ....... and some are still behaving like primates ....
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 02:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 021JustinKuntz - Actually, my comment goes to the question of: (1) Whether John Strong's expedition involved any acts of governance on behalf of England (this was before the Act of Union with Scotland); and (2) If so, was it sufficient to establish a good claim to the whole of what was then entirely uninhabited territory. My position in this discussion has been that Argentina/River Plate established a de facto administration at Port Louis which at the time was not res nullius, but either Spanish or British territory. In either case, Argentina/River Plate did not administer Port Louis for anywhere near long enough for title to have passed by prescription by the time the British arrived in 1833. So the British evicted an administration of squatters. Whatever was the pre-existing British interest on the islands was returned to its rightful owners in 1833. Everything else became British by first occupation of res nullius. Save that whatever was Spanish passed to Britain by prescription, because Spain never raised any protest about the islands at any time after they left in 1811. For that matter, they did not recognise Argentina as independent until 1859, as they continued to regard it as Spanish territory.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In summary:
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 02:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Q) Do the Falkland Islanders wish to remain British?
A) Yes
Q) Are there major economic problems in Argentina?
A) Yes
Q) Is the Argentine president trying ot use the Falkland Islands issue to deflect attention away from her own incompetance?
A) Yes
Q) Have Argentina managed to achieve anything in this fiasco?
A) No (and they actually admit to have played all of their cards!)
Q) Does anyone with more than a single brain cell actually care what the husband and wife team are banging on about ?
A) No (apart from nitrojuan - but i forgot he only has half a brain cell and it is p****d)
Q) Is Argentine trying to gain support from crime ridden, drug producing, pseudo dictatorships?
A) Yes (because this is all that the Argentine president thinks her country is worth - a bit shameful on her part I think.)
This has got me thinking that Argentina and those that it would count on to support it pointless claims couldn't organise a P*** up in a brewery.
Argentines, please do your self a favour and get rid of you incompetant and ineffective leadership. Perhaps elect a leader who would forget the pointless ideological rhetoric and would engage in meaningful trade with the Falkland Islands for the benefit of all invovled.
For all those who write here: Do not take seriously the views of JustinKutz, his opinion was not credible.<br />
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Their “claims” are full of lies and dyed a virulent anti-Argentine.
24ARGENTINOS - I don't understand a word of Spanish, but I can work out that you think the Falkland Islands are Argentine. I can think of another territory: Qollasuyu, currently occupied by Argentina, and which belonged to the indigenous state of Tawantinsuyu before the first Argentinian was born. QOLLASUYO IS AND WILL BE TAWANTINSUYAN! Translate that into Spanish!
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So it turns out that this elusive statement of full support isn't even a statement of support for Argentinian sovereignty - only a support for Argentina's opposition to the drilling for oil - and even then has only actually been supported by Mexico, Ecuador, Chile, Guatemala, Bolivia and Venezuela .... so, looking behind the banal claims of the dimwitted Cristina Kirchner bimbo, only a small minority of Latin American and Caribbean countries have come anywhere close to supporting Argentina.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 02:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yet another spectacular Argentinian propaganda own goal.
ROFLMAO!
OUT OF IRAQ
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0OUT OF IRELAND
OUT OF BELIZE
OUT OF GIBRALTAR
OUT OF THE FALKLAND
THE BRITISH ARE THE SCUM OF THE WORLD
MURDERERS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE
NO ONE WANTS
LEAVE, OR WE GET A KICK
Let´s go Boy!!!! We won´t not figth o arguing, because of in Malvinas or Falklnas Island, never, and never in the pute live you and us will find any Petrol, so Briton can continueing drilling day and night, if it possible to pass to the other side of the world, the only you could find is a pairs of penguins and some white whales, but there isn´t no dubs that the Mal or Falk are, and íll be Argies forever and ever like or not, Good bless Argies people!!!! and save the Queen....By
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 02:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Michael
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 03:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0John Strong undertook a voyage sponsored by the admiralty with the aim of establishing sites for base with which to operate in the South Atlantic. That he landed and claimed posession for the English Crown is not in dispute, whether it established the basis for a sovereignty claim is a moot point. By the standards of the day, it was sufficient to establish a claim but that would only have been enforced by the ability to establish a permanent outpost and protect it against incursion by the rival powers of Spain and France. I would agree of its own in the 21st Century it would not be enough to establish a sovereignty claim since it was not accompanied by a setllement and establishing effective control. That came much later.
Where I disagree with you most strongly is the assertion that a de facto administration by the United Provinces of the River Plate was established at Puerto Soledad/Puerto Luis/Port Louis/Port St Louis by Vernet. It is somewhat of a stretch to describe Vernet as a de facto administrator for the United Provinces, he basically said what he thought people wanted to hear. He claimed to both the British and the United Provinces that he was representing their interests. The circumstances of his appointment as “Governor” are a case in point. In 1829, he appealed to the Government of the United Provinces for a warship and crew to “enforce” restrictions on American whalers/sealers in the islands (he scrupulously avoided anything to antagonise the British). Not having the resources they instead made grand proclamations that he was the “Governor”, in response to British protests Vernet renounced the appointment and assured the British his interest was purely commercial.
You can make a compelling case that the origins of much of the sovereignty dispute lie in the duplicitous behaviour of Vernet in trying to balance the competing claims of two parties and playing them off against each other.
You also fall into the trap of assuming Argentine claims of an evicted settlement are true. Vernet's settlement wasn't evicted, it was actually encouraged to remain. Both Onslow of HMS Clio and Fitzroy of HMS Beagle went to great lengths to urge the population to remain and continue with Vernet's enterprise. When Vernet's deputy Matthew Brisbane returned in March 1833, he assured Fitzroy commerce was Vernet's only interest and not to further the pretensions of the United Provinces.
I presume you're unaware that in establishing his settlement, Vernet being aware of the British claim sought British permission for his venture. The settlers were not evicted for the simple reason they were supplying a useful service for British interests and were there with the blessing of the British Government. The only people asked to depart were the 8 mutinous prisoners of the former garrison and their Lt, a certain Lt Gomez.
The Spanish possession of the Falklands is also somewhat of an exaggeration. Spain never established anything but the penal colony of Puerto Soledad and cetainly did nothing to exercise control of the islands. The Spanish Governors of Puerto Soledad frequently wrote letters complaining that the British used the islands at will and were exploiting the natural resources of the islands to make their fortunes, while Spain did nothing. Again Argentine claims of the British “absence” are nothing more than myth, the literature of the period is replete with accounts of voyages to the South Atlantic. For instance when Jewett staggered into harbour in 1820 he found 40-50 British ships already there.
Anyway its been interesting for once to discuss with someone who knows something of the issues, rather than simply parroting someone else's propaganda.
And don´t forget u Arg íll win you again on the World Cup 2010 next June, and you will sent out very fast , get away
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't you just love the banal empty rhetoric of Argentinian nationalists - all cut from the same laughable Peronista fascism.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh, and patrick20210, you may want to get with the game, because Belize has been fully independent since 1981 (not that such trifling matters make Guatemala, one of Argentina's few allies, any less belligerent and expansionist).
Still, it is good to see you are still stuck there repeating the rhetoric the generals taught you :)
Ah Patricio, not the Patricio Dowling by any chance?
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Britain has already left Iraq.
Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, it remains so because that is the will of the people.
Belize is an independent nation, has been for 30 years.
Gibraltar is self-governing, its latest constitution confers full internal self-government.
The Falklands have been self-governing since 1985, successive constitutions have conferred full internal self-government.
Self-government of both Gibraltar and the Falklands was delayed by foolish irredentists claims of their neighbours.
Whatever racist diatribe or epithets you like, you merely make the case against you easier. Whats even more telling is rather than debate the merits of either case you resort to the simple device of labelling the British case lies. Well funny isn't it, the only nation that has to resort to lies and half-truths to make a case happens to be Argentina.
“Yet another spectacular Argentinian propaganda own goal.”
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why am I not surprised in the slightest, did I not say this very morning what does it actually say.
29 patrick20210 , Interesting comments made there.<br />
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0<br />
Do the British deal in Drugs, are we growing them, and selling them to minors??? <br />
No we are not.<br />
<br />
Do the British Brainwash there citizens into Blowing themselves up, killing innocent bystanders and children. <br />
No, we do not.<br />
<br />
Did the British fully support the peace process in N.Ireland. <br />
Yes they did, and still continue to do so.<br />
<br />
Did the British help topple a ruthless dictatorship in Iraq, which the people of Iraq are extremly grateful for.<br />
Yes they DID.<br />
<br />
I can tell by your statement that you are not a British supporter, and you are intitled to your opinions, however inadequate they maybe.<br />
<br />
Which country are you from, and what has your country ever done for the world???? Or are you just another pathetic no-brained idiot that has decided to come here and stir the pot???? Either that or you have been smoking it.
I can think of many many more Countries that should be given the title SCUM OF THE WORLD, as you call it.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 017 mbc says
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”
with great surprise and joy Argentina was supported by the Latin American countries received the recognition of their rights to the islands .... but that's better than that in many forums around the world people are in favor of Argentina ... (eg read comments in the newspaper “El Pais” in Spain). The people in the world are tired of British abuse, its piracy, its imperialism ... their lack of respect for international law ..... may impose what they want by force, but someday the world will say enough ......”
Exactly well said! Only imperialist minded Brits and with that mentality come on here and criticize Argentina for rightfully getting back what is rightfully hers.
Here is website,
that exposes the crimes of the British throughout the ages!
www.larouchepac.com
www.larouchepub.com
The folk at Executive Intelligence review has exposed the Brits for thieves,murderers imperialist warmongers that they truly are.
HAHA, LOL... and no other nation has ever done anything wrong.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the modern world, growing and trafficking of drugs is a big crime is it not. praying on the young?? Is this not a big crime in 3rd world countries also???
Well guess not, when your national Hero is a cocaine addict.
Additional, where have most of the worlds greatest inventions come from??? I know it isn't a south american country.
RohanMarkJay, interesting to note that the sites you posted compare Obama to Hitler, claim that his plan to offer universal healthcare equate to the Nazis extermination of the Jews, claims that Spain (and Germany, France, Greece .. the whole of the EU) is part of the British Empire and refer to Argentina as a “pathetic pisspot dictatorship”.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not really helping your cause :)
#20 Michael , oh my god, in which world do you live?? Argentinian are 97% european (italian, spanish, welsh, english, french), the 3rd jewist community (after Israel & US) , and in 90´s Latam communities (Paraguayan, Bolivian, Chilean & Peruvian) and now a few inmigrant after the North Crisis (North Americans) !! The European came in XX Cent. in Argentina cause in their regions have a terrible war, for better conditions & future. Today many argentines (third generation) have Italian or Spanish Passport too because a reciprocity agreement of that, The Gratefulness in the Human Behaviour is the best that could be happend. So dont foment European Vs Indigenous American (that happened in XIX century) , We are not that, we dont feel that, whose foment that are Pres.Chaves, Pres.Hugo Morales, PM Brown and you. We are in XXI idiots!!!
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0nitrojuan, correct we are in 21st century and Argentinas arguments over sovereignty belong to 18th and 19th. In the 21st human rights and selfdetermination is what counts if the free world. But I accept your claim exists,you believe strongly in it,and you are next door to us, so in a final solution somehow consideration needs to be given to it so Arg can say they are satified and honour protected, whilst we -the people who live here- get the future we want. The question is how to satisfy both those aims.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 05:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Grettings from Mexico!.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thejonster, I have a question? . Do you know that in Buenos Aires , live many children,and woman. Also live many brits, and people with diferent nationality???.
It´s clear for you that the missiles will kill humans??
Are you extraterrestrial? or maybe you are a stupid nut.
sooner or later Malvinas will return to Argentina by diplomacy.
Islander,
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Exactly man. The point is :“The question is how to satisfy both those aims. ”
It´s basic, it´s clear. And its not necesary another war.
The problem is that Reino Unido, don´t wanna speak with Argentina.
Falkland’s territory is owned by Falkland people. Falkland territory includes the territorial waters and everything within, above and beneath. I believe Falklanders should also lay claim to all waters to the east and half the waters between Falklands and Argentina. That is how seas are proportioned between adjacent countries. The Falklanders could be fortunate to benefit from their own resources. Good luck to them. Falklanders have the right to allow free passage and whatever else they decide within their own territorial waters. Argentineans should be told to mind their own business.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 030JustinKuntz - I don't think it matters whether Vernet commenced administering the Islands in the name of the United Provinces in 1826, 1829, or not at all. The fact is that there was no UP/Argentine administration in place for long enough for the pre-existing Spanish or British title to have passed by prescription by the time the British arrived to remove his establishment in 1833. And you're quite right: the British allowed any of the settlers to stay who wanted to, as long as they gave their allegiance to the British Crown. As for the pre-existing Spanish title to Port Luis, it was a good title to that local area, given that the establishment of a penal colony is a species of state activity good enough to establish first title. Don't forget, the Islands are the size of Kent, Surrey and Sussex combined and under Spanish rule Port Luis and its hinterland had a population not much larger than the National Cat Centre at Haywards Heath. That's why I said that all parts of the Islands except Port Luis and Port Egmont were terra nullius when the British arrived in 1833.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 041thejonster - Firing cruise missiles at Buenos Aires wouldn't be a very British thing to do. But you're on the right lines. The Royal Navy's submarines could stand off its at a range of two and a half thousand kilometres and demolish Argentina's navy and air bases with cruise missiles fired from over the horizon without offering a target. The Navy's brand new destroyer HMS Daring - more like a cruiser than a destroyer - can outperform in air defence five Type 42 destroyers and can track and shoot down up to sixty separate targets. Later this year the submarine HMS Astute will be commissioned. She can sit in the English Channel and from there monitor shipping entering and leaving New York. Believe me, Argentina, the Royal Navy may be smaller than it was in 1982, but you definitely don't want to fight a war against it again. You'll achieve nothing but send hundreds, maybe thousands, of young men to their deaths.
Michael,
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 05:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Almost agree but there was no requirement to swear allegiance to the British Crown, none whatsoever. The only statement in that regard was commerce was fine and welcome, furthering the ambitions of the United Provinces was not. Vernet's settlement wasn't removed or molested in anyway, the only people asked to leave were the armed forces of the United Provinces.
And to our erstwhile deceased Mexican revolutionary, no the UK doesn't refuse to talk with Argentina, it refuses to acceded to Argentine demands for talks with a pre-determined outcome.
Argentina would never win a war agains Britain ... but I also support the Argentina claim for the Islas Malvinas. The times of british colonisation everywhere in the world should end. What has Britain to do with islands which are located at the other side of the world ??? It's more logical that the Islas Malvinas are part of Argentina (they are only 500 km away from Argentina).<br /><br />
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 047Peter. On what basis in international law do you support Argentina's claim to the Falkland Island? State your case. I've already stated mine. Relative distance has nothing to do with territorial title, for if it were then Argentina would have an unassailable right to Uruguay. If the times of British colonialism are over, then what of Spanish? Isn't it time that the Spanish colonists in the Americas returned to where their ancestors came from?
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Michael,<br />
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's not because Britain has “taken” the Falklands about 200 years ago that it is logical ... I support giving back to the people all lands which has been illegaly colonised in the past. Like we Belgians have given back Congo to the african people in 1960. It's the same case here. So I hope Britain will 'let go' the Islas Malvinas peacefully.
49Peter. But who do you give it back to? What is now Argentina was illegally colonised by European Conquistadors who took the Inca's gold and gave them smallpox in exchange. Argentina also illegally occupies Qollasuyu Province of the Inca Empire/Tawantinsuyu which never had a presence in the Falkland Islands.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So Peter in what way is the Congo remotely comparable?
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the Congo, Belgium maintained a colonial Government against the wishes of the indigenous people, in the Falklands Britain has devolved self-government to the people born there. Transferring the land to Argentina against the will of the people born there would impose an alien culture and language upon them; effectively what you did in the Congo.
And pray tell, how can you give back that which was never possessed in the first place. Islas Malvinas isn't even a Spanish name its a corruption of the French name,
The Falklands were uninhabited when the British colonised them, the only settled and permanent population the islands have ever known has been the British settlers who lived there. Yet for some reason you're advocating handing them over to a hostile nation, that assrts they have no rights, which is not an indigenous population but another population of European settlers, living in a land they stole from its indigenous peoples.
The only people who the islands belong to already live there.
well the islands belong to the people of the falklands who want to remain british.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#51 Justin, This month there had the premiere of “Alice in Wonderland” which has more conformity with you say. We are speaking about the international law, the rules that be in the Table and the actors .. is it very difficult for you to interpret it ...? If you dont have a solution of it please dont say incoherences that you dont believe yourself.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0International Law?
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 07:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What happened to grand Argentine statements about taking the current spat to the Hague? Who is afraid of International Law?
thank you Brazil:
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lula's hard critique Gives today when he asked the United Nations for “ a political explanation for not having expressed that: it is not possible that Argentina does not take possession of Malvinas ” “ the fact that England informs as permanent member of the Council Security of the UN, where they can quite and the others nothing ” and requested that “ the secretary general of the UN re-opens debate inside the United Nations; and the political moment is this! It is inexorable to discuss the role of the Security Council of the UN ” because he thought that “ it is not possible that the UN continues with the Security Council represented by geopolitical interests of the Second World war and do not bear in mind the changes that happened in the world ”. EXCELENT LULA! ALL THE COUNTRIES WILL BE AGREED TO REPEL UK FOR THE SECURITY COUNCIL IF THIS COUNTRY DONT FULFILL THE UN RULES !!
es sorprendente lo mucho que los isleños saben de la argentina, a la vez natural, es el pais mas cercano y dueño indiscutido en el mundo de esas tierras. un borracho militar argentino, torpe, asesino, cruel e ignorante, invito a un pais mucho mas poderoso a discutir con armas la tenencia de las islas, el pueblo argentino entonces llevado por la emocion y por las ganas de gritar bien fuerte que las islas son lo que son, argentinas, siguio aquella estupidez.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0pero repito, saben demasiado los isleños de argentina, y alguno por alli me sorprendio con su ignorancia cuando dijo que si el petroleo estaria en aguas argentinas inglaterra no diria nada, amigo, esas aguas son argentinas, aun en el caso de que las islas fuesen brutanicas las aguas cercanas son argentinas ya que es su plataforma maritima.
no se si alguna vez nos pondremos de acuerdo, pero si se que tenemos politicos, ejercitos, industria y muchas cosas peores que ustedes, o mejor dicho que inglaterra, pero tenemos algo en donde somos infinitamente mejores, somos una sociedad libre de insultos entre nosotros, aqui los negros, los blancos, los cristianos, los musulmanes, los judios, todos vivimos en paz. cuado tuvimos problemas fueron por agresiones de terroristas como las tiene ustedes tambien. pero esto habla de nustra mayor virtud, esa que supera por miles y miles de malvinas de distancia a un pueblo de otro, la calidad humana del argentino, la calidad humana del latino jamas, jamas podra ser comparada con la de los paies como inglaterra, donde por petroleo inventan una guerra y matan niños. es la misma distancia que existe en comparacion entre los ejercitos.
lei por ahi que si algun dia las malvinas son gobernadas por argentinos, es posible que los isleños abandonen las islas para no ser gobernados por inutiles corruptos. señores, ese no es nuestro problema, si se quieren ir miren sobre sus pies, el agua los invita a navegar hacia otras islas, mas grandes y muy muy muy lejanas de aqui...
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Brasi President, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, l today called for “political explanation” for the United Nations for not explicitly stated that “there may not be gripped Argentina Falklands and that, conversely, what makes a country that is 14,000 miles ”from the islands
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In his speech at the Summit of Unity of Latin America and the Caribbean in Cancun, Lula expressed his “solidarity with Argentina” by the order of sovereignty in the Falkland Islands and wondered “what the reason is geographical, political and economic for which England is in Malvinas ”
Lula criticized “the fact that Britain participates as a permanent member of UN Security Council, where they can be everything and nothing else” and requested that “the UN secretary general to reopen debate within the United Nations and the political momentum is this
For the Brazilian president “is inexorable discuss the role of the Security Council of the UN” because it found that “it is not possible with the UN to the Security Council represented by geopolitics of the Second World War and take into account changes that occurred in the world. Needs to be recast, ”he said.
Lula exemplified further that “in the Middle East conflict are borne by U.S. interests, when in fact the UN must now assume responsibility for negotiating peace.”
“It's the UN that should be discussed with Iran,” he noted, ”but withdrew the UN and individual countries discussed these matters because the UN representative and lost because the Security Council countries prefer a fragile UN.
Gathering the number of comments, Cristinas' success has obviously rattled some cages.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now with Lula onboard the diplomatic struggle the outcome for the Brits is no good. Sorry Brown, you are in deep shit now.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cheers
Wrong, 60MAP. As long as there are cruise missiles in British fleet submarines, we're keeping the Falklands. As for President Be-Bop-A-Lula, could someone please explain to me how the descendant of imported Portuguese Conquistadors could have a “geographical, political and economic” reason for ruling a country that isn't Portugal? Brazil became independent on September 7, 1822. So, overnight, a community of European colonists and slavers become indigenous Americans? I don't get it!
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Argentine government should worry about it's own economy/nation instead of attempting to drag the Falklands down with it. Imagine the Argentines do get their way, do they expect the people of the Falklands (who have lived there for generations) to give up everything, learn spanish, practice catholisism etc. etc.? The British colonised America, Australia, Canada, The Falklands.....all prosperous, peacful nations. The Spanish plundered Latin America stealing all its treasures and leaving it's corrupt ways to curse those nations....
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gathering the number of comments, Cristinas' success has obviously rattled some cages.<br />
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0<br />
LOL What success? A small handful of largely irrelevant nations have subscribed to a statement which doesn't even address the issues that all the Argentinians here are bitching about - namely sovereignty of the Falklands.<br />
<br />
Judging by the racist drivel being spouted, it seems that it is Cristina Kirchner's abject failure to get any sort of comprehensive regional support that is rattling the fascist Argentine nationalists in our midst.
La verdad que dan pena.... saben el pais rico que tenemos los Argentinos... seremos lo que seremos pero como pais, nacion somos superiores. Uds estan en una Isla en el medio del oceano qu estaria bueno que dependan del continente. La verdad que me pareceria bien que sean un pais independiente y listo. Ya esta las Malvinas or Falkland Islands independientes. La verdad que ya tenemos un pais enorme, me da igual. Saludos Vecinos!!!!
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 066Juan Carlos. I don't know if you understand English or not, but if I understand your Spanish correctly you're calling us thieves and pirates, and for an end to colonialism. In that case I hope you don't mind my calling Argentina a community of Conquistadors, an artificially planted population, a pretend nation of Europeans in the Americas, a relic of Hispanic colonialism, an illegal state and a usurper of Qollasuyu, which was and is by right and under international law a part of illegally occupied Tawantinsuyu.
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 11:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#61:
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 11:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You don't get it. Argentina is not going to war, is simply going to gather enough support from other countries until the real investors for the oil exploration (not the kelpers) are convinced that “unstable” latin america (with creepy fellows like Chavez and Castro) is no place to do business, which is brilliant... is turning one's weakness into the driving force to achieve success. What is success? status quo.
Save the cruise missiles in the british ships to chase shadows in the middle east & asia while destroying entire nations (I bet you are proud of that too, war mongering imbecil)
Cheers
Destroying entire nations? Precisely what the Conquistadors did to the indigenous Americans. Smallpox is a bitch, isn't it?
Feb 23rd, 2010 - 11:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”Argentinian are 97% european (italian, spanish, welsh, english, french), the 3rd jewist community (after Israel & US) , and in 90´s Latam communities (Paraguayan, Bolivian, Chilean & Peruvian) and now a few inmigrant after the North Crisis (North Americans) !!“
Feb 24th, 2010 - 01:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Liar, first of all, it has been proven that Argentina was never a ”close to 100% white nation”. By who was that proven? Andres Oppenheimer, another left wing che idiot who posts his pro illegal alien comments in the Miami Herald. Many argies are from mixed blood and it is been proven that BS.AS was also build by many black immigrants (slaves) who suddenly disappeared (mmm, weird) and and and mixed with other white immigrants by time. Second, in the 90's yes, but today most immigrants who went to the land of che idiots to make money are leaving back home where they are better off. Third the so called north americans who go back to che idiot land are the argies who stayed ILLEGAL in the United States..yep, back to the slum where they belong. Proves again that che idiot nitro doesn't even know the history of his own silly nation who haves a government that is stuck in the past...laugh
Map:“Argentina is not going to war”
Feb 24th, 2010 - 01:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Duh, because they simply can't. Why? Simple, they don't have the men power, they only have shitty outdated weapons, no money to buy new weapons, the nation is bankrupt ( economically and moral), and and and..many argies leave the nation for neighboring countries because they are fed up of living in a country stuck in the past. The Republic of Che idiots is facing a brain drain and che idiots like nitro don't even realize that, because they are so obsessed with the Islands (the Falklands-UK) who's residents do not want to belong to the Republic of che idiots, aka Argentina. Ps..you don't hear much about it in news anymore, but soon, very soon they, the Republic of che idiots will default again, and they don't even realize that....laugh.
I was reading british press today and it was somehow quite enlightening and funny at the time... it sounded pretty histerical<br />
Feb 24th, 2010 - 01:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0<br />
“So far, the mounting Falklands conflict has been met with deafening silence from Washington. Both the White House and State Department have failed to comment on the situation, despite a significant heightening of tensions. Not only is this another striking failure of leadership on the part of the US administration, but it also demonstrates an extraordinary level of indifference towards America’s closest ally.” <br />
<br />
oh guys, you´re going to end as alone as Adan in Mother´s Day...
Ethnography (from Wikipedia) lesson 177:
Feb 24th, 2010 - 01:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0”As with other areas of new settlement such as Canada, Australia and the United States, Argentina is considered a country of immigrants.Most Argentines are descended from colonial-era settlers and of the 19th and 20th century immigrants from Europe, and 86.4% of Argentina's population self-identify as European descent. An estimated 8% of the population is mestizo, and a further 4% of Argentines are of Arab or East Asian heritage.In the last national census, based on self-identification, 600,000 Argentines (1.6%) declared to be Amerindians
Following the arrival of the initial Spanish colonists, over 6.2 million Europeans emigrated to Argentina from the mid-19th to mid-20th centuries. Argentina was second only to the United States in the number of European immigrants received, and at the time, the national population doubled every two decades mostly as a result.
Although relatively few in number, English immigrants to Argentina have played a disproportionately large role in forming the modern state. Anglo-Argentines were traditionally often found in positions of influence in the railway, industrial and agricultural sectors. Illegal immigration has been a recent factor in Argentine demographics. Most illegal immigrants come from Bolivia and Paraguay, countries which border Argentina to the north. Smaller numbers arrive from Peru, Ecuador and Romania“. Chilean in the ´80 in the Patagonia for better conditions.
I have grown in an anglo-argentine village call ”Ranelagh” near B.A. City. Nicho, you are a baby in Ethnography around the world. Let study more please!
Ah, We have Brit-Malvinenses in our lands too.
nitrojuan, why do you bother to answer such ignorant nonseses as nicholas said? Don´t waste your time with him...
Feb 24th, 2010 - 01:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0heeeeeeeeeeeyyy !!! are all wrong ... <br />
Feb 24th, 2010 - 02:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0<br />
78-80% from different European ethnic groups<br />
15-20% of different ethnic Amerindian<br />
2-5% of African ethnicities<br />
<br />
info ... http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composici%C3%B3n_%C3%A9tnica_de_Argentina<br />
<br />
La distribución territorial de los diferentes grupos étnicos se encuentra básicamente influenciada por las grandes migraciones internas del campo a la ciudad y del norte hacia el litoral. En la Ciudad de Buenos Aires, donde la influencia de la inmigración europea en la composición étnica se ha sentido con más fuerza que en el resto del país, un estudio realizado en 2006 sugiere un mestizaje genético promedio compuesto en un 78-80% proveniente de diferentes etnias europeas, principalmente italianas y españolas, un 15-20% de diferentes etnias amerindias, y un 2-5% de etnias africanas.[7] Los estudios también indican que la proporción del componente genético amerindio y africano está creciendo,[8] y que ha sido transmitido mayoritariamente por las mujeres.[8<br />
Lula, worlds most popular leader, smashes Britain!
Feb 24th, 2010 - 02:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://momento24.com/en/2010/02/23/lula-what-is-the-reason-geographically-politically-and-economically-for-which-england-is-in-the-falklands/
Lula...what a guy!
Feb 24th, 2010 - 02:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=lula+&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&start=0
Yes llen, you are right, maybe cause we know ourselves with Justin, Michael, Mike, Nicho, Islander, exocet, Jorge I, Jorge II, ... for any sensible news we try to impose our opinion, but nobody will be able to mix the : History (objetive view), Geographical (Ethno, Social, etc.), International Law (Principles of Integral Territory and Self determination), and give a solution of that. Sometimes I feel that we live in different part of the world, someone in Asia, other in Nairobi or other in Kiev.... but really with The Islanders we live in a few kms, we have a similar past with the anglican mission in this part of the world, we could have a prosperous turism, oil devolpment, commercial trade, education exchange, where self determination & our land claim could live together.Maybe this is an utopia, but I am sure that, of some form, we will achieve. Someone of that i have named is able to make a solution? (without cheap nationalism) . I AM WAITING......
Feb 24th, 2010 - 02:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hello. I am argentine. Please excuse my eventual bizarre english. I would like to discuss some aspects with kelpers without cheap nationalism behavior. I pretend to make a rational discussion analyzing the entire situation of the conflict. <br />
Feb 24th, 2010 - 04:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think that the situation is not so simply. Most kelpers, according to what I read, think that the position of argentina is ridiculous. Most argentines think that the entire control must belong to Argentina. So the reply of kelpers is in general something like “the habitants of the islands wants to belong Britain, not Argentina”. If there exists moral people in Argentina who are interested in this conflict, they cannot simply say “falklands must belong to Argentina” and never make reference to its habitants that are part of them, they are humans. There exist moral people. The “hate” of some argentines is with Britain, not kelpers. (“Hate” not with its literal significance, I don’t know other word in this moment). <br />
I recently read that Britain permits Kelpers to choose its governments. That they are independent. That Britain permits kelpers not only to choose its governments but also the country to belong. I entirely respect your decision to belong Britain. But I would like to know if you thought the reason of that “freedom” to choose. That is what I would like to discuss. What I am writing next is not an affirmation, just a thinking.<br />
Argentines cannot live in the islands, Britain doesn’t permit that. Only tourists can go for a short time. I think that is in total contradiction with the supposition that Britain permits islanders which country to belong. Britain wants Falklands to be habit by people who prefer to belong Britain, so actually there is no freedom. It is very simple. There no exists real question in asking “do you want Britain or Argentine?” when Britain assegurates that the islanders will respond Britain. In fact because of the choice of Kelpers Britain justifies the occupation ok Falklands in UN. But as you can see everything is well premeditated by England.<br />
Britain, thanks to Falklands, pretends to have more control in the ocean and in the Antartida, and that is a fact, it is not my brainwashed theory (you can check it on your own). That politic has nothing to do with kelpers well-being. <br />
It would be an exaggeration to say that Britain “uses” kelpers to make its own control of this part of earth. But I think you can realize that there exists lots of reason to pretend the falklands. Britain, after the stupid war, began to transform islanders into real british. I heard some English saying that before the war kelpers where considered “second citizens” in Britain. So, when the war finishes a good manner to improve the occupation is to make kelpers real britain citizens. <br />
My conclusion is just this: I don’t want to dispute your choice. I respect it. But I would like to know if kelpers did actually think the reason of that choice and if Britain really is giving that freedom. Don’t reduce everything to a fraternal relationship with Britain and the malicious argentines invaders. Britain has lot of interests that have nothing to do with kelpers. So make your own conclusion. As I say, the conflict is complicated.<br />
If I offense someone, it wasn’t my intention<br />
“I have grown in an anglo-argentine village call ”Ranelagh” near B.A.”
Feb 24th, 2010 - 04:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Pfft, liar, many anglo's who went to argie fantasy land left and very small group of failures stayed behind. You grew up in a spanish slum called buenos aires and still live there, keep on smoking paco...moron (che idiot)...laugh.
“Lula, worlds most popular leader, smashes Britain!”
Feb 24th, 2010 - 05:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Laugh, and behind closed doors he's laughing out loud how the che idiots destroy their economy and keep themself bussy about a territory that's not theirs and never will be theirs....this man is everybody's friend even with George Bush, Achmed the muslim iranian prick, Obama, Brown and bimbo kirchner. Poor che idiots, they believe everything when a foreign politician screams out loud in favour of them....laugh.
Dr Roberto.. you think like me , but when i was living in BA years ago, you have to come to Patagonia, study more about islanders behaviur, their resentments about us, their capacity of self suficent (they dont need UK help, only for defence), self subsistence (their world are sheeps, ships & fishing, and maybe oil), self determination (virtual), they have not the oportunity (that in Ushuaia we have) to access to an University to make a diferent opinion about a global community and their own close community.. Humans could not have a real opinion of the facts if he doesnt have anything to compare, example: if you dont study the root of this problem and the social-economic context of these facts , you can never find a real opinion about them (you are only watching the tree and not the forest), nevertheless you cant find an objetive opinion to islanders if they have never put in Argentine skins, and they dont interest that ! so that kind of diplomatic doesnt works with them.... like Di Tella in the 90`. Please Continue Participate (after studying about them)
Feb 24th, 2010 - 05:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Gianni......“Argentina has not full support, there are many neutral countries in latinamerica.”.......
Feb 24th, 2010 - 07:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Name them
Name one nation that is prepared to damage its economy to help Argentina annex the Falkland Island against the wishes of its people.
Feb 24th, 2010 - 09:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Dr Roberto, Argentines can live in the Islands - several do - they are treated exactly the same as people from Chile and England and every other country - they need to have a work permit and a job to come to and then no problem. There are several families here from Argentina and no problem. As we are a small country with limited resources anybody coming here to live has to have a job. I think that is the same in most countries. Once here they have exactly the same rights of free healthcare,education etc as born islanders. After a period of years people can apply for a permanent residence permit and if that is granted they then have the right of permanent life here without a work permit.
Feb 24th, 2010 - 11:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nitrojuan - you are lucky having a University but then you have maybe 100,000 plus people living in TDF? We are only 3000 so it is unrealistic! That is why our Government pays for students to go to University overseas to study, if they get the grades to enter.
You know what is really sad, about the only Argentine to have ever really got it was Di Tella. Even if his approach was somewhat naive, he got much further in breaking down mistrust than any other Argentine politician. And he is berated for it in Argentina, by the loud mouths who can only preach confrontation and the use of force.
Feb 24th, 2010 - 11:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think that the Brits don't quite realise this yet, but they have chosen the worst timing for both the timing and the topic (natural resources) I think Obama will stop this just before sanctions against UK owned enterprises in latin america are agreed between all of the countries in the Rio group. This is not about Argentina anymore... the message is clear, now the Brits have found a way to take our oil... next it could be your country and your resources. This is going to be the struggle of the XXI century, and this is the first big test.
Feb 24th, 2010 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is not convenient for US to have Latin America disturbed. It has bigger problems now, it doesn't need one so close.
Cheers
Sanctions against the UK? What for exactly? Because the FIG wishes to exploit mineral resources.
Feb 24th, 2010 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Grow up, it has nothing to with taking any one's country or any other country's resources. No one in South America is going to damage their economies to fulfil Argentine irredentist dreams. They might mouth sympathetic platitudes but that is all they are.
It's not a pre-requisite to damage one's economy to hurt another's country economy... Let's say that british companies that deal with shipping and logistics (air & sea) are taxed double than other companies in an X amount of countries. That industry is so competitive that other companies will get more business than the Brits, and products will still move around. It's all about money Justin.
Feb 24th, 2010 - 02:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cheers
Its also illegal under International Law to do that, and the British would retaliate and for example we import Argetine goods to the value of $1.5B per annum, we export $307M to Argentina. Who would hurt more?
Feb 24th, 2010 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So who is going to hurt their economy to back Argentina? Whats in it for them? Its all about Money isn't it.
Horacio, excelent! but in english,, that is the rule... like UN rules, where UK have to find a solution with Argentina about our Malvinas.
Feb 24th, 2010 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Justin, it is also illegal under international law not to obey a UN resolution that dictates that the UK must sit and discuss the issue of sovereingty... aside from that... Believe me that there will be plenty of buyers of Argentina goods, it's food and raw materials mostly... but even if Argentina economy suffers a loss of 1.7B... so what? You think that would bankrupt Argentina? In the big picture that's not much.
Feb 24th, 2010 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cheers
MAP, you need to check your facts...the relevant Resolution says <<Invites the Governments of Argentina and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to proceed without delay with the negotiations>>....An invitation is something that can be accepted or declined....at the moment we are declining to negotiate with some botox faced pratt who is calling upon us to surrender Falkland Islanders rights enshrined in the UN Charter and Resolutions to a new era of Argentine expansionism and colonialism with Islanders getting diddly squat and Argentina running off with the loot. You must think we are country yokels to fall for such a charming invitation. The UN has dictated nothing. You are living in a dreamworld in which Argentina floats along smoking some weed or other thinking it rules the world telling us all what to do. Your Rio Group friends must be laughing up their sleeves, they will soon be queueing up for their payoffs. That's how it really works there isnt it?
Feb 24th, 2010 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0End of the day we own the area and its our oil. We kicked your ass once and try to take it again we will do the same again. Jog on. Empty threats are pointless and do you think we will allow the deaths of our soldiers to be rubbished by handing the area or should i say oil to you lot. We will defend those people and the memory of our dead. Like it or lump it we aint moving, you dont have to like it one bit. Deal with it or shut the hell up. Rule Britannia!
Feb 24th, 2010 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you cannot write anything in English GO to the Spanish site - that is what it is there for!! I am amused as always by the usual rhetoric from CasaRosada and elsewhere about all this growing international support! All the UNstatements ever do is acknowledge there is a dispute - and call on the two sides to negotiate to achieve a solutions - quite correct and quite fair - and All those who vote for Argentina(apart from old Hugo and a few others) are simply doing just that - they are NOT taking sides!! Same as the Rio Meeting in mexico the other day - the wording such as I have seen did not amount to much - and even then only a few supported it.
Feb 24th, 2010 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BUT - and it happens to be a very big BUT - you cannot even start negotiations when one side is demanding that the only answer is full sovereign takeover by them regardless of what the people involved may wish! So long as Argentina continues this stance then in 500 years the UN will still be saying the same thing and the same result - no progress.
Now, IF Argentina were to calm down,cool down and start being a bit less antisocial towards us and relations could improve (as they were doing with DiTella) - and then Argentina said to the UN that it was prepared to sit down with the Islands and discuss all issues (which would include sovereignty) with an OPEN AGENDA and no PreFixed Outcomes - then yes it would be difficult for us to say no.
Does anyone want to place a bet on Argentina ever doing this?
...“UK will only talk to Argentina IF islanders wish we to do it”.....
Feb 24th, 2010 - 09:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's the only PRE-CONDITION.
Jorge, No, not the case - we would talk if an open agenda and no preconceived and publicly stated aim of territorial handover to argentina regardless of our wishes - and that to date is always what Arg states.
Feb 25th, 2010 - 12:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody think about “what to do” inmediatly the moment we recover Malvinas? We Argentinians have to view in long term, too.. How included kelpers (whose dont come back to UK)? do they keep in TDF Province? do they be another state in the Federal Argentina? we have a lot of buid.. do we need to use our Bank reserves to buid the New Malvinas??? The countdown have started this week...and I can read only cheap nationalism...
Feb 25th, 2010 - 02:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0.....“do we need to use our Bank reserves to buid the New Malvinas??? ”....
Feb 25th, 2010 - 10:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0If central bank reserves guardians Carrió, Morales and De Narvaez allow you! lol
Political Joke
....“Jorge, No, not the case - we would talk if an open agenda and no preconceived and publicly stated aim of territorial handover to argentina regardless of our wishes - and that to date is always what Arg states.”....
Feb 25th, 2010 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0What's the meaning of an open agenda???? You argies drop your “irredentist” claim???
Open agenda is precisely what it states, an open agenda, no preconditions. As islander notes, Argentina has always proceeded with a very public demand of a preconceived aim of territorial hand over to Argentina, with no thought or consideration of the wishes of the islanders.
Feb 25th, 2010 - 10:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0islander you have to change your “wishes” with “ reality ”, the problem is your people need GOOD & REAL FUNDAMAMENTS to do that, lamentably you dont have it.
Feb 25th, 2010 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I want to give an offer to your people (before Arg. close the only link with the continent) , but i feel nobody is prepared to it...
Map - I somehow dont see even Arg let alone all the Rio group taking financial and trade penalties agaist the EEC or EU of which UK is a member.
Feb 25th, 2010 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nitrojuan, if we can in time talk on an open agenda - who knows what might come out of it - look at Northern Ireland - they were fighting each other and calling each other terrorists - today the are together in a shared elected Govt. Who knows - my thought is we might end up as Independent - that gets rid of the British “prescence” so many object to, we would of course remain in the Commonwealth (and thus keep our heritage)like Australia and India ans South Africa and Canada etc- just a lot smaller member! Somwhere along the process UK might even say cede sovereignty to Arg - who then simultaneaosly offers it to the people of the Islands and we go Independent - that way nobody has lost . We are so small that we might even think it a good idea for Arg to represent us in S American regional affairs like OAS.Rio etc - who knows? Sure both sides will need to do a bit of “giving” - but it could only start with no preconditions.
Islander , I agree with you. Believe me that i have an offer where self determination & exploration of the resourses of Malvinas could coexist with the integral territory of Argentina & LatinAmerica, being you a commonwealth community like Bahamas (or whatever you want). I can see, today, is most difficult to obtein that, if both sides have an endless nationalism thinking. The solution is easy (both sides wins), humans are difficult.
Feb 25th, 2010 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just wanted to know what Antigua, Barbados, St Vincent , St Kitts etc had to say about this... I'd be disapointed if they wernt with us (the UK) but I can understand if they want to keep in with the local bullies on the block...
Feb 25th, 2010 - 08:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0US BRITS WILL USE OUR CRUISE MISSILE SUBMARINES TO HIT YOUR AIRFIELDS FROM THE SKY !!<br />
Feb 25th, 2010 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0<br />
YOUR SHIPS WILL BE SUNK BY OUR ASTUTE CLASS SUBMARINE<br />
THE BEST ATTACK SUMBARIME IN THE WORLD<br />
<br />
YOUR 30 YEAR OLD JEST WILL BE DESTROYED BY THE EUROFIGHTER <br />
<br />
OUR DARING CLASS DESTROYERS WILL DESTROY ANY MISSILE OR AIRPLANE WHICH REACHES THE ISLAND, THE MOST ADVANCE ANTI AIR MISSILE DESTROYER IN THE WORLD<br />
<br />
I WILL SEND YOU A POSTCARD FROM MY NEW HOLIDAY HOME BOUGHT BY FROM THE MONEY WE BRITS WILL MAKE FROM YOUR OIL<br />
<br />
<br />
HAHAHAHAH !!! HAHAHAHAHAHAH !!! AHAHAHHAHA<br />
<br />
HOW WILL YOU GET THESE ISLANDS BACK ARGENTINA HOW ? TELL ME HOW !!!
And did those feet in ancient time
Feb 25th, 2010 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Walk upon England's mountains green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen?
And did the Countenance Divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among those dark Satanic mills?
Bring me my bow of burning gold:
Bring me my arrows of desire:
Bring me my spear: O clouds, unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire!
I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.
disappointed, they didn't support Argentina, the document doesn't actually say what Argentina has claimed.
Feb 26th, 2010 - 09:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0And the troll let his ignorance show with the use of American spelling.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDgO6NIXe0A
Feb 26th, 2010 - 11:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0No comment! watch the video and look who promotes wars (England)
39 HendrikDK wrote
Feb 26th, 2010 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”RohanMarkJay, interesting to note that the sites you posted compare
HendrikDK
Obama to Hitler, claim that his plan to offer universal healthcare equate to the Nazis extermination of the Jews, claims that Spain (and Germany, France, Greece .. the whole of the EU) is part of the British Empire and refer to Argentina as a “pathetic pisspot dictatorship”.
Not really helping your cause :)“
I certainly don't agree with what the the websites said about Argentina now the Argentina of today are standing up to the big bankers centred in the City of London and wall street Iceland is another country that is standing up for these Argentina should be praised not criticised maybe it was true in the 1970s military dictatorship Argentina had back then. That said you haven't studied those sites properly. They were comparing Obama to Hitler because his healthcare plan had nothing to do with helping ordinary americans, it was to help his wall street buddies insurance companies to make a huge profit on human misery and suffering. Those budgets allocated will force doctors to decied who lives who dies this is exaclty what Adolph Hitler proposed in his T4 healthcare plan of 1939 Obama what implimenting a Nazi healthcare plan which is true!
”claims that Spain (and Germany, France, Greece .. the whole of the EU) is part of the British Empire”
Hendrik the site was referring to the City of London based banking empire which was the basis for the visible british empire of the 19th century. In other words the British Empire was really an empire of money a financial empire which could manifest as military invasions are buying up other nations to do the fighting for you to conquer other nations. The British Empire started as the British East India Company a company of the Crown which went on to conquer half the world. They the bankers in City of London control wall street and put Adolph Hitler and the Nazis and Mussolini and maybe Tojo as well as Churchill,Roosevelt and Stalin into power. They control both sides and create the conflict for financial profit. That Banking Empire set up the EU that is the claim the British Empire according to the Larouchepac.com site is conglomerate of International Bankers centred in Britain in the City of London square mile to be exact. The Square mile was the power behind the visible British Empire of the 18th 19th and early 20th century. That is what they mean when the site referes to the EU as part of the British Empire which is really a financial empire of the international bankers operating out of London. PM Gordon Brown and President Obama are mere puppets of these people. They create the wars, depression famine put American presidents into power and remove them at their pleasure. They are all powerful and they rule the planet!
But it is heartening to see in the last 10 years countries like Argentina, Iceland, China and Russia are standing up to them. Call me a tin pot wearing conspiracy theorist all you like. This what I beleive and it makes perfect sense to me and explains a lot that goes on in our world.
Sorry those Islands belong to Argentina. However they have hard fight because when they go against Britain they inevitably go against the International Bankers centred there that create all these crisis they have there secret agents working for London in every country good luck Argentina I am with hundred percent all the way!
Thanks “nitrojuan ”
Feb 26th, 2010 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It takes an Argentinian to inject a bit of intelligence and sanity.
Thank you Nitrojuan I have read all your comments and they extremely good. The UK some european american and falkland Islanders commenting here are just so filled with hate and bile for a country like Argentina that they will find anything to say to justify their ludicrous arguments. The bottom line the Argentina has always claimed the Las Malvinas but the UK has always denied a basis for negotiations to return the Islands. Even going to war in 1982 one of the most senseless conflicts of the 1980s a mad war that should never have been fought but reading the comments of the Some Brits and Islanders its not surprising that they did in such jingoistic fashion.
Thanks Nitrojuan for bringing some much needed light to this forum.
I sincerely hope that the Islands will be returned to Argentina as soon as possible.
It is also ludicrous to think the Falkland Islanders think the British Govt cares for them. Heck the British Govt or the people commenting here from UK couldn't care two hoots about them unless it was in there interests. Also the British Govt doesn't give a rats about the British Tommies who they send into battle for their imperialistic gains and the Sun newspaper reading armchair UK based jingoistic crowd behind them.
Thank you Rohan!!! The fascinating of studying international relations is to be able to give solutions to this type of conflicts where both parts will be benefited inside the international law, with an objective vision. I know that my offer wont satisfied the Arg. gov and people does not remain satisfied, but I think that it is the best for both parts, really I think that the islanders deserve the island and their resources, they have struggled to survive notably, in spite of that I am sure that the islands it belongs us, but as any relation both parts yield to reach an agreement.
Feb 27th, 2010 - 01:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0I keep waiting some islander to talk with me in the islands, maybe being a link..(without resentments and nationalism) i have a reservation to fly in MARCH 13 to Mt. Pleasant, but if the posture still with hate and bile, i dont have anything to do there.... my aim is to bring a message to our governor of Tierra del Fuego and to the Arg. Chancery where a start of a solution is offered to end this conflict.
Feb 27th, 2010 - 01:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0The bile in the system of those expressing such hatred towards the British must be eating them away as well as deluding them, they obviously don’t believe in a people’s right to self-determination.<br />
Feb 27th, 2010 - 09:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the Falklands islanders want to remain British and you can’t accept that, I suggest you look at how you became so bigoted. It’s probably because your gullibility has been exploited by either those wishing to advance themselves on the back of people’s prejudice or by those who just can’t respect others opinion.<br />
Argentina has behaved like thug and yet some on this site wishing to visit there with an arrogant agenda, expect anything other than hostility from the Falkland islanders<br />
Such people will die frustrated waiting for either force or diplomacy to gain them their selfish ends.<br />
The history is quite clear, the Spanish, true to their land-grabbing form, pushed the British off the west island (the British having been the only people to ever settle there) and British pushed back, whether that was the real Spanish or the then rebel Spanish (Argentinean)<br />
The Falklands were uninhabited when Britain discovered them and its the British that has developed them.<br />
<br />
P.S. if there’s any prosperity in Argentina its because they haven’t paid off their debts <br />
Paul, really you live in another world...
Feb 27th, 2010 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And nitrojuan, suggest your read some of those websites your “friend” posted.
Feb 27th, 2010 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nitrojuan, what world is that , a sane one? You obviously can't take anything on board. Try to think , how did you get so brainwashed, was it from birth?
Feb 27th, 2010 - 10:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Paul it is easy when you have the posibility of participate free in this forum in Mercopress opposite a computer,, absorbing only the web news, you must to study a lot and travel in this part of the world, to have the possibility of seeing the forest and not only the tree.
Feb 28th, 2010 - 04:04 am - Link - Report abuse 01. If i had born in Malvinas (in 80`s) maybe i should be proudly of being a brit islander fighting to my “self determination” against my enemy “Argentina”, because my world would be only limited in that and my future will be prosperous and my parents remember me the war (invasion to islanders).
2. if i had born in Argentina AND i had not the opportunity of study “international relations and trade” and be an “open mind person” maybe my world will be limited “The Malvinas are Argentinian because my teacher, parents told me that”, “ They are pirates”, “they have invaded our house”.
Paul i dont know in which part of this world you are, but if you will not
be able to give a solution dont say stupid things...
nitrojuan, you have wrong impression if you think that Falkland Islanders live in some sort of grand isolation in the Falklands and are subject to some sort of neo-colonialist mindset instilled in them by either their erstwhile colonial masters or their inherent ignorance of the world, because they have their main contacts via the airbridge with the UK . You would be completely wrong.
Feb 28th, 2010 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are probably among the most travelled people in the world and many native born islanders who live and work there have also lived and worked in other countries and bring to the islands a vast experience of what there is and there is not in the rest of the world that interests and motivates them.
Young islanders also get the opportunity for extended further education and many are both qualified, experienced and competent in many professional fields.
I am sure they would learn something by better contact with Argentina but it would not be essential and whilst useful not actually a life changing necessity or even experience.
I should also remind you again that the advantages you feel you have gained in T de F from your government investment and support comes for certain from the fact that they are using money they refuse to pay back to international investors, which in my book is a criminal act.
Nitrojuan I live in the UK and I admit my post was blunt, but not stupid, I had just been trying to find out what commonwealth countries were supporting Argentinean, (none by the looks of it), when I came across this website to find the very hateful anti-British posts on here. <br /><br />
Feb 28th, 2010 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you lived in the UK you would aware of too many people making a living out of being anti-British and we are fed up with it, particularly as most of it is bollocks.<br /><br />
I have traveled quite a lot round the world including quite a few places in the Caribbean and many times to Spain, so I know the Hispanic take on things.<br /><br />
I’m glad that you recognize you will have been indoctrinated by your teacher and by your parents who no doubt were indoctrinated by their teachers as that’s a start. Because here we question just about everything our politicians tell us and we know they can dupe us. Having said that, we have a very strong sense of looking after our own and if our politicians hadn’t protected the Falkland islanders they would have never got in power again and they know it. <br /><br />
By any reckoning the Falkland islanders are British and to call them pirates seems your caught in a time wrap or to call them Kelpers is just rude. <br /><br />
As for a solution, I suggest you prove that you accept the islands are British (as long as the islanders want it way), by being the supply and transit service for any oil extraction.<br /><br />
Nitrojuan, now who's talking stupid, as I wrote before 'you are so brainwashed that you can't take anything on board' and I now can understand why the Falkland islanders just don't trust you, you're so devious.
Mar 01st, 2010 - 08:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0i dont know why MERCOPRESS has deleted my comment 119, maybe Paul (british) would feel affected ... Could I have an objetive opinion agains UK deliriums in XXI century... ?? Is it a free press in a free province (sorry country) : Uruguay...
Mar 01st, 2010 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nitrojuan don’t worry, you won’t offend me, but MercoPress has a responsibility to maintain reasonable standards, which I assume your post didn’t respect by writing something objectionable.
Mar 02nd, 2010 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0To be objective on a subject requires you to have no personal opinion, something you appear not to be capable of and its funny how you accuse me of what you are guilty of, as I’m neither confused or feel extreme excitement (delirium) on the subject of the Falklands.
P.S. You haven’t got your greedy eyes on Uruguay as well have you (leaving province in your post)
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