MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Falklands' tension, no risk of military conflict says Jane’s analyst
Exploratory oil drilling, which began last month in waters north of the Falkland Islands (whose sovereignty remains contested by the United Kingdom and Argentina) has upped the tension level in the region, the security information provider Jane's has noted. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rules“Even under this scenario, such tensions would not lead to any prospect of renewed, large-scale military hostilities between the United Kingdom and Argentina”
Mar 09th, 2010 - 08:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yo no estaría tan seguro, en fin...
not today. perhaps not tomorrow. but...we shull return!
Mar 09th, 2010 - 11:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not in your lifetime boys ........ nor your childrens!
Mar 09th, 2010 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0I here the RAF Typhoons chased a loan argentine fighter out of the Falkland zone the other day. I bet that cockey twat shat his pants big time. Bet he wont come back for seconds!
Mar 09th, 2010 - 11:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody in their right mind should even contemplate the subject of war. The way forward is through constructive dialogue, give and take, cooperation and working together. Mercosur is a starting point to prosperity. Instead of bickering and sabre- rattling (argentina) sort out your own house first, and follow good examples shown by the likes of Uruguay and Brasil.
Mar 09th, 2010 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Never heard about rockets boys?
Mar 09th, 2010 - 12:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Never heard about rockets boys?
Mar 09th, 2010 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just the ones that go up the tail pipes of skyhawks, SIDEWINDER.
No the one the brit sailor did not like in the Sheffield, ACL, Sir tristram, and galahad
Mar 09th, 2010 - 12:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0regards
Shall we talk about torpedos?
Mar 09th, 2010 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The whole hoo haa over the Islands appears to have got a lot quieter recently. This is probably because the Argentine leadership played all of its cards in quick succession and has achieved nothing (although their primary focus it to bolster opinion polls in Argentina).
Mar 09th, 2010 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Only idiots want a war.
Rational people like me are being patient while the OG drills various prospects over the year and hopefully it will be major £££££$$$$$$$ leading to a big :) on my face.
Estevez
If you are claiming that Argentina is ready for another military encounter then please sign up as your chances are between slim and none. In 1982 we did lose a few ships but saved the Islands from the tyrany which was your Junta. More importantly both sides lost a lot of good young men and this should be remembered when you talk about bombs and rockets etc.
beef, you forgot to mention that we fougth the tirany of the empire, or your history books does not tell you about brit tirany???
Mar 09th, 2010 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did ever Argentina blocks your river?
Did ever bombed your cities?
Did we ever ousted people from islands like you did in malvinas,diego garcia and many other places?/
The world is feed up of brit tirany!!!
We are going to figth brit imperialism and colonialism, that you know so well.
Did Argentina invaded India, destroy a country in half like you did in Irak??
beef, do not ever talk about tirany, because the brits are the tirant #1!!!!
And remember:Nothing comes for free!!
What ever you did to other countries you are going to get it back!!!
Start working to pay for the debt, punk!!!
The world should anihilate the brits tirants!!!
Estevez
Mar 09th, 2010 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Every single event you talk about happened/existed (apart from Iraq) before I was even a twinkle in the Milkman's eye (before I was born). None of the issues you raise have anything to do with the Falkland Islands or with the current dispute.
If the world is fed up of Britain then why are many, many people desperate to come to the UK? Why do we open our doors to those less fortunate and grant them collective protection? The majority of people who come from countries that were once part of the British Empire identify the Magna Carta and the principle of The Rule of Law and Tolerance as core aspects of British society.
If you feel that the UK is acting against international law regarding the Falkland Islands then you should pressure your government to refer the matter to the ICJ at the Hague. Your government has refused to do this so they must think that they haven't got a sufficient case.
Again you talk about punks? Is this a fetish or something.
BTW. I am working and the UK will grow itself out of its deficit. We do not have to raid our central reserves to do so. UK deficit is only attracting 0.5% interest and our equity growth is above this so there are no worries at our end. Argentina's debt is being serviced at about 6% (I think you are the gang who need to get working).
What you think SHOULD happen won't and is not going to. So work in the real world and perhaps you will learn to be a less bitter individual and perhaps be a bit wealthier. This won't do anything for your IQ though!
Dr Beef
11 tte Estevez (#) says: “Did Argentina invaded India, destroy a country in half like you did . . . ”
Mar 09th, 2010 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the word 'Conquistador' means anything, it reminds everyone who knows history that when the Argentines were still calling themselves Spaniards they wiped the entire Inca State off the map, took their gold and wiped out their people with smallpox.
BTW. I am working and the UK will grow itself out of its deficit. We do not have to raid our central reserves to do so. UK deficit is only attracting 0.5% interest and our equity growth is above this so there are no worries at our end. Argentina's debt is being serviced at about 6% (I think you are the gang who need to get working).
Mar 09th, 2010 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Exept your total foreign debt is 9,2 trillion dollars, your reserves is barely 82 billion dollars less than 1% of the total debt.
Consult CIA factbook and read it well.
2 largest debtor in the world!
That is the unfortunate reality!
Michael, can you please read this blog?
Mar 09th, 2010 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you think I should not be worried about my country?
Argentines will like to be left alone.
We do not bother you, please do not bother us.
Your area is the N Atlantic, leave us alone.
I do not care what you do with your country, but I care what you do with my country.
http://europeangeostrategy.ideasoneurope.eu/2010/03/07/the-falklands-the-european-unions-antarctic-key/
Regards
In which case leave the Falklands alone, what possible threat is 1000 troops and 4 Typhoons to Argentina. Pathetic, you play the regional bully and whine about others. Grow up and stop behaving like whiny children.
Mar 09th, 2010 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A ha, a ha
Mar 09th, 2010 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I cannot believe the hypocrisy of the bloody Pomies.
“If the world is fed up of Britain then why are many, many people desperate to come to the UK? Why do we open our doors to those less fortunate and grant them collective protection?”
Because you have invaded and destroyed their countries first bloody bastards.
UK is full of Indians, Pakistani, Chinese, Middle East’s people, all countries exploited by UK.
We should nuke them, the world will be much better.
Estevez
Mar 09th, 2010 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am going to call you “single source” from now on. The CIA also said Iraq had WMD. The UK deficit is in the region of £170bn at only 0.5% with a AAA rating that has been confirmed today. I should know this as I am a doc of economics (a PhD is not something you are going to come by soon). Don't even try to suggest the Argentine economy is comparable to the UK, doing so proves how thick you are.
Commando
The reason people come to the UK is because they will be treated fairly and tolerated for who they are. Ask any of my students who come from over 20 different countries to gain their BA, MA or PhD
Let see Corned beef: There are other sources that confirm the debt.
Mar 10th, 2010 - 12:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is one:
http://ukhousebubble.blogspot.com/2008/12/uk-external-debt-400-percent-of-gdp.html
Another:
http://ukhousebubble.blogspot.com/2008/12/uk-external-debt-400-percent-of-gdp.html
and there other sources too.
By the way I hold a Master degree in Electrical Engineering.
The Guardian<br />
Mar 10th, 2010 - 02:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0”People sometimes ask me why Argentinians make such an endless fuss about the islands they call Las Malvinas. The answer is simple. The Falklands belong to Argentina. They just happen to have been seized, occupied, populated and defended by Britain. Because Argentina's claim is perfectly valid, its dispute with Britain will never go away '
Mark, what's your quote supposed to prove and who is it from? Another misinformed individual? The islands are British and will remain so while the population wishes it. Historically the British claim is stronger that Angentina's. The legal claim is unarguable and the claims based on the self-determination and human rights of the islanders are supported by the UN's own charters.
Mar 10th, 2010 - 02:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina's dispute may never go away, if only because successive Agentinian governments have invested so much political kudos and propaganda it the story. And like the dispute, the British will never go away!
Territorial integrity is a stronger one.
Mar 10th, 2010 - 03:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0There had been several cases, which they granted sovereignity to the country requesting that.
Of course, the brits do not care about self, since they did not ask Vernet, what they wanted to be, they just kick them out.<br />
Recently Diego Garcia is another brilliant example of british fairness.
STOP LIYING PLEASE!!<<br />
GET OUT FROM THE SOUTH ATLANTIC!!<
BRITISH GO HOME!!!
Hoytred, dijo...los británicos nunca se iran.
Mar 10th, 2010 - 05:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Que equivocados que estas, ese dia esta mas cerca de lo que crees.
La ONU reconoce que es un enclave colonial lo de las Islas Malvinas.
A retreat into spanish doesn't help your case. The Argentinians have no claim regardin 'territorial integrity' as the Falkland Islands are 400 KM away, South Georgia and the Sandwich Islands even further.
Mar 10th, 2010 - 05:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0Vernet asked for British permission BEFORE he went to the islands thus acknowledging British ownership. AND he wasn't around when the trespassing Argentine garrison was ejected. 1833 and 1982 - two attempts at illegal possesion, two failures. You lot like banging your heads against a brick wall ?
The Argentine claims are dead in the water. Get used to it!
Didn't ask Vernet what he wanted?
Mar 10th, 2010 - 08:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are of course completely unaware that Vernet asked the British to establish a permanent garrison on the islands?
And contrary to what Argentina claims they didn't kick his settlement out. They in fact encouraged it to continue.
Vernet's settlement collapsed in August 1833, when one “Gaucho” Rivero led a group of men on a murder and robbery spree, killing the 5 senior members of the settlement. They were after gold not realising that Vernet only had paper promissory notes in the islands.
Of course in the Argentine version, the murdering thug becomes magically transformed into a gallant freedom fighter.
Which of course couldn't have happened if the Argentine claim of an expulsion in January 1833 were true. But hey, Double Think is alive and well in Argentina.
Territorial integrity isn't stonger. I suggest you refer to Article 103 of the UN Charter. It actually upholds the primacy of self-determination.
Mar 10th, 2010 - 09:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Does it never strike you, that every assertion you make doesn't happen to be true?
Some of you have no idea at all. The only reason the “British” as you call them are here in the Islands is because we-the Islands people(with exactly the same rights to our homes as those in Arg of original european descent) want and need them to be here for our protection and defence against the bullyboy tactics and threats of - guess who!?
Mar 10th, 2010 - 11:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Remove your threats ( I dont expect you to remove your claim) and bullyboy attitude - and simple - there will be no need for the British to be present here in the Islands at current levels.
All this about who did what where in the world 300-500years ago is utterly irrelevant and childish. Todays modern world- perhaps excluding a certain Govt which seems to live in a time warp) - values modern principles like self determination and rights of people who live in a country - wherever it is.- and that those peoples should not be threatened nor attacked by others.
That is why the UN went into East Timor - Haiti - Cyprus - Congo etc. That is why NATO went into Serbia etc, That is why the UN/NATO went into Afghanistan(int terrorism bases). I would exclude Iraq - that was an idiot called Bush and his poodle Blair.
The UN recognises the overriding principles of freedom and selfdetermination - its in its charter. All the UN has ever done over the Falklands is call on both side to negotiate and seek a solution. It does NOT favour one side nor the other,no matter how much verbal spin Buenos Aires tries to put on. And to negotiate you need both sides to be prepared to be open and imaginative - not one side having a precondition that they must win sovereign control and to hell with the wishes of the people who live there and have lived there for many many generations and who never dispossed any indigenous population.
@Beef
Mar 10th, 2010 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are a PhD in economics and you say that the economy of Argentina is not comparable with UK.
Can I ask why?
You (I mean your economists) compare all the time the economy of UK with the Economy of USA.
The economy of UK is slightly bigger than the estate of California around 1.8 trillions now. And UK is 2.16 trillions and falling.
Anyway your external debt projected for this year surpass the USD 10.7 trillions.
How are you going to pay that amount of money?
Your public debt is growing and growing and to keep your economy alive with your QE you need to borrow more money abroad.
May question is who is gonna lend you that money?
Your Guilts even though UK by now has AAA ranting, (but has been advised to a possible downgrade anytime soon) is paying interest like the PIGS.
Can you explain that please? Well I will help you mate.
The market just downgraded your debt emission because there is no way that UK can repay its debts.
So UK has become a risky country and has to pay premium interest rate to borrow money.
How long UK cans go like this? May be 1 or 2 years, because the market want to see cut in expending especially in social security areas, education, health care, army, etc.
Your Country is a negative equity my friend.
Of course I can see you answering that rising taxes and making some cuts.
But that is not enough.
1 if your rise taxes will harm business and of course you have heard about the Laffer curve so sum will be 0.
2 in some areas in UK the estate intervention in the economy is around 55% so cuts will shrink the GDP and tax revenues.
3 Interest rates over the external debt in the long run will be a huge amount of money to serve and I’m talking just about interest not principal. So UK will be force to borrow more money while the external debt will grow and grow.
So my friend your country if trapped deadly in a circle that the only way to exit from this circle is by restructuring its debts.
So lets see in a year or perhaps two reading the headlines in the Economist saying...
The Default of UK a country once a leading economy in the world now ended up like Zimbabue.
Yeah, This world woul be better without these british troublemakers.
Mar 10th, 2010 - 11:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Islander, when you say that the only good outcome is your independence granted by Argentina, you are setting the outcome.
If you talk about an open agenda, you would have to accept any outcome, even if that means the argentine flag waving over your house. If you are not willing to accept that as a possible outcome, then you are just talking nonsense and saying lies.
Argentina is not a bully. We only claim what is our. You want Argentina to respect your rights as inhabitants of thouse islands, fine, but first, recognize Argentina has also rights over the islands, then we'll see.
With regard to the british, we don't want them here, they are an insult to us, they are garbage, they are disgusting. That suppossedely “threat” from Argentina is just an excuse for those worms to be here. GET THE HELL OUT FROM HERE!!!!
PS, since there is another jorge who refuses to change his name, I will do it, from now on my nickname is jorge!
Estevez
Mar 10th, 2010 - 01:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0territorial integrity was done for the benefit of protecting newly constituted states, it was not created to grant incestious sovereignty claims to bullies, given the territorial Unit of Argentina was fully consolidated until 1860 with the conquest and colonisation of Patagonia, it is hard to see where your Territorial integrity was compromised.
But here is the real sinker “Any deliberate attempt aimed at the total or partial disruption of a countries territorial integrity is incompatible with the UN's charter”
Note the bit “deliberate”-given that the Falklands are hardly deliberately aiming to disrupt or destroy the Territorial unity of Argentina I do not see how territorial integrity has been affected.
But on a final note, how on earth can your territorial integrity be affected by self determination, when the islands are not under your control, therefore has territorial integrity already been breached and compromised, in this case where are the UN resolutions demanding a hand back of the Falklands to Argentina?
Jorge, your ramblings impress upon no one, go sit in the corner, the adults are speaking.
Mar 10th, 2010 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Independence is not setting the outcome it is one of many outcomes that they can decide upon, such as integration with the UK, free association with the UK, greater autonomy, Crown dependency status. All of these outcomes involve the consent and approval of the only thing that matters people.
Argentina however has never offered any of the above it wants total control with no regard for the populations wishes you are demanding that the Falklands be called the Malvinas, you are demanding the Argentine flag fly, you are demanding absolute submission to BA, you are demanding that the high degree of independence the islands enjoy be regulated to a mere department of the province of Tierra del Fuego.
How much say will 3,000 islanders have over things that matter to them, like the fishing economy, immigration, tourism etc, you would just steam roller them into extinction. And what if they don't vote in Argentine governors, what democratic mandate will any Argentine govenor have to rule then?
You don’t have a coherent plan or offer for the future of the Islands and it’s people, all we hear is “Malvinas son Aregntinas”.
Tell me dear Jorge, when did a country suddenly have rights over land? What rights are these prey do tell? How much right did Argentina have to Patagonia?
The Islanders are willing to talk with Argentina, but Argentina isn’t. Argentina knows that it has a shakey foundation when dealing with the Islanders in international law, so chooses to ignore what is the elephant in the room. No nonsense no lies. This is the fact of international law, self determination comes paramount to sovereignty disputes.
Argentina is a regional bully, it's easy to bully a small group of islands, gives you illusions of grandeur, but most of all it rallies short term nationalist support in Argentina, and gives a great ego boost to leaders, international disputes always do. The attitude of Argentina is comaprable on some level to the attitude of Israel
The British are only there Jorge, because you cause them to be there, if it wasn't for 1982, we wouldn't and frankly we don't trust you enough if Argentina had a a positive relationship like Spain has with Gibraltar, then there would be no issue.
I could divulge some of the threatening postures that have been initiated by madam plastic face but I would breaking the official secrets acts, but lets just say most of the objects of Argentinas military posturing were nowhere close to British military objects.
Believe you me Jorge, that 100 million and garrison could be better employed else at the moment, it really could, but we have a duty of care to our citizens, look what happened the last time in 1982, inadequate military presense lead to your first little Imperial adventure, democracy or not stagnated piss poor army as well, if we left tomorrow Argentina could easily subjacate the islands.
We are going to stay thank you, as long as the threat of imperialist rule against the democratically expressed wishes of our Citizens still hangs over their heads, will we stay and we stay with the democratic consent of the people, which is more than I can say for your lot.
By the way these pieces of disgusting trash did a pretty good job cleaning out yours in 1982 ;)
Jorge with or without a ! - dream on, all you have are illusions, prayers and dreams. Reality clearly shows that the Falkland Islands are as the islanders wish them to be ...... BRITISH
Mar 10th, 2010 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Raurie: I do not want to start a legal debate about territorial integrity, since all these had been studied in detail by people specializing in those topics, but yes Argentina can claim territorial integrity.
Mar 10th, 2010 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Read the book by famous international Jurist, Lowell Gustaffson.
And yes Argentina can claim territorial integrity under the UN charts and resolution.<br />
And the Malvinenses, can not claim self determination, because brittain did not allow Argentinians to emigrate, buy land, settle do their own bussiness.
Many times they were Argentinian that wanted to buy land, even Peron in the '50 offer England to swap Malvinas for the huge outstanding debt Brittain has for Argentina.
Moreover the case is even worse for selfdetermination, because the Brits, kicks the Argentinian from Malvinas in 1833/
I am not making this stuff up, but if you do not follow the law there can not be civilization.<br />
Why is so difficult for you to understand??<br />
That is what I told you before, when I said Staten island(Islas de los Estados), not in new york but here in Argentina.<br />
If you did not upset with your empire the normal development and interaction with the people thats live in the area, they would be naturally entrenced with the continent.<br />
You did because of geopolitical reason. to have control on the Beagle channel, remember Panama canal was not available at that time.<br />
To make your case worse, you did against a country with strong Economic and political ties, with a treaty of Commerce and friendship, signed in 1825.
I do not consider the Malvinenses my enemy.'They are my friends and partners in the South Atlantic.
We are in the same boat.
I just told them we do not want your Island.<br />
There is no reason, we have Usuhaia.<br />
You Europeans need that to control the beagle channel and proyect it to Antartica.
The 41 million people in Argentina wants you or any outsiders, to get out of the South Atlantic.
Just leave us alone.
The last thing we need is to have a global problem because of you or any European powers.
We do not care, pal
Leave us alone!!!
Estevez we cannot understand because you make no sense. The British claim predates 1833, the trespassing Argentine garrison was ejected in 1833 but the settlers remained. Those settlers were British subjects and their descendants are there still and still wish to be British.
Mar 10th, 2010 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Antartica and indeed South Georgia nan the Sandwich Islands are a seperate issue which the Argentine Government has refused to take to the International Court of Justice on 3 occassions. You don't have an Antartic claim and in fact all current claims are not recognised.
The British legal case regarding the Falkland Islands is unassailable. More importantly in the modern world it is the islanders right to self determination that is paramount.
Argentina cannot win in this dispute !!
Hoytred, I do not know from where you get those ideas.
Mar 10th, 2010 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your actions in 1833 was ilegal
Read even british historian Peter Beck and many other jurist.
There had been an enomous amount of data about the Argentinian history on Malvinas.
Do your homework if you are really sincere about the truth.
And yes Argentina will win the dispute pal.
We have very good case for Malvinas going to arbitration.
Will uk accept it??
And Argentina told you to go to arbitration on 4 ocassion. starting from 1888.
uk never accepted.
The other cases you wanted to include San Pedro and SS
All S America supports Argentina, even the yanks are neutral
So the Antartic claim are not recognized?/
See this pal:
http://europeangeostrategy.ideasoneurope.eu/2010/03/07/the-falklands-the-european-unions-antarctic-key/
We are talking about Malvinas not San Pedro and Ss.
Regards
So Argentina has no legal case??
Mar 10th, 2010 - 04:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Read two prominent study by International Jurist:
Third, to be blunt, the British statement that they have ‘no doubt’ about their title over the Falklands is total rubbish. Privately (of course) they have every reason to doubt it. In fact, I think it would be fair to say that despite the UK’s de facto control for all these years, it is indeed Argentina that has a somewhat superior title over the Islands. Likewise, the Islanders’ claim to self-determination is dubious for various reasons, and UN practice with regard to the Falklands does not support it. For reasons of space and time I will not venture into this further, but there are two recent exhaustive treatments of the subject which are helpful: R. Laver, The Falklands/Malvinas Case (Nijhoff, 2001); R. Dolzer, The territorial status of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas): past and present (Oceana, 1993).
Fourth, following from three above, the UK knows full well not only that there would be a chance, but that there would be a good chance that it might lose a judicial dispute over the Falklands.
http://www.ejiltalk.org/why-the-falklands-dispute-will-probably-never-go-to-court/
regards,
Illegal Alliens!
Peter Beck has acknowledged his thesis was unreliable, since all he did was review published material and did no original research himself. The actions of 1833 were not illegal, Britain protested at the Argentine installation of a garrison and ever so politely removed them after not receiving a reply.
Mar 10th, 2010 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The settlement was not expelled, that is a lie, something that I've provided links to check for yourself.
Argentina doesn't have a case, a few weeks ago there was much speculation in the Argentine press about launching a case at the ICJ in the Hague, which you're perfectly entitled to do. At the time I confidently predicted that Argentina wouldn't; in any case it conspicuously avoids any forum capable of delivering a definitive judgement on the merits, rather the lack of merits, of it is case. Britain had actually proposed the ICJ as a solution to the Argentine Junta back in 1981, proposing a case to be heard in 1983. We all know what happened in 1982.
There is nothing, absolutely nothing, to stop Argentina unilaterally referring the dispute to the ICJ. Britain could refuse if it wanted but that wouldn't do its case any good and I doubt very much if it would. Argentine will however never do it, because you know you'd lose.
So indeed, why is Argentina so reluctant to pursue its case, instead publishing the most ludicrous of claims and grand standing in South America for other nations to mouth sympathetic platitudes but nothing else.
And Rudolf Dolzer, places great emphasois on Argentina's claim that the settlement was expelled, seeing that as very much the nexus of Argentina's case. Unfortunately it doesn't happen to be true.
Then we have the 1850 Convention of Settlement, that you don't wish to talk about, the 35 year silence that followed without Argentine protests, indeed it wasn't raised in the Argentine Congress for 91 years. More than sufficient for prescription to be assumed by any competent International Lawyer.
So quoting some American lawyer, bad mouthing the UK, with a lot of hot air but short on legal opinion won't cut the mustard.
IF you are going to quote people, read the whole article and not just the bit you like:
“Second, as for title, the issue is extremely complicated. To brutally simplify it, Argentina claims title either through succession from Spain, or by having occupied the Islands on its own shortly after gaining independence. The UK relies on prior discovery, effective occupation since 1833, and prescription. It also relies on the Islanders’ right to self-determination, which they’ve freely exercised by choosing to remain a part of the UK. ”
The issue is nowhere near as clear but as you claim.
Justin: Will you ever grow??
Mar 10th, 2010 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If uk tittle are sOOOOO good, why they never accepted to go to arbitration???
Argentina invited them in 1886 and 3 more ocassions
You never wanted, because your tittles are weak.
Do you think that Brazil and other countries including the US, will not support Argentina if they do not see a minimal chance of the Argentine tittles?/
Grow up pal!!
Read the books by these eminent Jurist, American, English, Germans etc.
They have studied more than you and me the case!
Go read impartial books not brit propaganda!!
Argentina doesn't have a case, a few weeks ago there was much speculation in the Argentine press about launching a case at the ICJ in the Hague, which you're perfectly entitled to do. At the time I confidently predicted that Argentina wouldn't; in any case it conspicuously avoids any forum capable of delivering a definitive judgement on the merits, rather the lack of merits, of it is case. Britain had actually proposed the ICJ as a solution to the Argentine Junta back in 1981, proposing a case to be heard in 1983. We all know what happened in 1982.
Mar 10th, 2010 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They wanted the ICJ, for the Oil contract broken by the brits.
Because the oil prospecting was not respected. You broke it on 6 ocassions.
That is the reason Argentina broke the agreement in 1997.
I would not have done it, but they should have gone to court, but Argentina walk away, bad movement from Argentina
1981 brit proposed arbitration including SG, SS,Argentina wants only Malvinas, which has the better chance for Argentina to win it.
Mar 10th, 2010 - 05:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0IF you are going to quote people, read the whole article and not just the bit you like:
Mar 10th, 2010 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Second, as for title, the issue is extremely complicated. To brutally simplify it, Argentina claims title either through succession from Spain, or by having occupied the Islands on its own shortly after gaining independence. The UK relies on prior discovery, effective occupation since 1833, and prescription. It also relies on the Islanders’ right to self-determination, which they’ve freely exercised by choosing to remain a part of the UK. ”
Justin they are stating what the brits say:
1. They did not discover Malvinas, already proven, it was Gomez, several maps showed in 1520.
He is stating what the brits are exposing
He is not judging anything
So tell me why you'd ignore the fact that Argentina chose to launch a disastrous war in prefence to a trip to the ICJ? Who has the closed mind?
Mar 10th, 2010 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It was Argentina that broke the agreement over oil exploration not the UK. The FIG was in full compliance with all agreements. You walked away.
Gomez's discovery of the Falklands is disputed, as are most 16th Century sightings. A mere sighting does not confer a sovereignty claim, certainly not one upon Argentina.
“1981 brit proposed arbitration including SG, SS,Argentina wants only Malvinas, which has the better chance for Argentina to win it.”
Interesting, the claim on Southg Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands, separate from the Falklands. Why do you claim them if you know you don't have a case? Habit?
ISLANDER, i have been reading about your proposal to find a solution to the conflict, and let me tell you that it's really unfair.<br />
Mar 10th, 2010 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You propose that the u.k. transfer the sovereignty to argentina, and the same time, we must grant to the islands population the full independence, we can't recover what we consider as part of our territory for just 5 seconds, it seems that both sides dont understand yet that te solution to the conflict must benefit both parts, your proposal only benefits your side, as i sayd many times, it would be really unfair if argentina pretends only it's sovereignty on the malvinas-faklands, and it would be unfair too if the islander pretend we to drop to our sovereign claim.<br />
Maybe sharing the sovereignty with the u.k. would be a fair solution, because in this way, it would be respected the wish of the islanders of being british, and we could excercise our sovereign right on the islands too, i think that both parts will have to cede on their pretentions, i order to find a fair solution.<br />
I think that most islanders dont realise that avoiding to discuss the dispute with agentina, is clair limitation to get your own independence, you are living in the most prosperous place in the whole world right now, you should be allready independent, if you dont want an argentine flag on the islands, unless both sides should set and arrive to an agreement about exploting the resorcies of the islands, i know that my goverment should negoticate only with the f.i.g., and your side must accept once and for all to discuss with argentina to find a solution to the conflict, the words of your conuncellors were very clear, we are disposed to discuss with argentina, but the sovereignty is not on discution.<br />
With this people with such a closed mind in both sides, the solution to the conflict, is just an illution.<br />
Your are one of the few falkland islanders who i like to debate with, because you have an oponed mind, regards.
JUSTIN, i have been making a survey about the issues that we talk about, i will start debate with you tomorrow.
Mar 10th, 2010 - 10:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0axel arg. I think a shared sovereignty was a suggestion back in the 1970s but even UK itself was not keen on it - UK and France have(or at that time had) a shared place in a small island I think near Canada- and even they- 2 neighbouring euopeans could not agree on it most of the time! So it would be very difficult for 2 very different types of Govt structure and systems to work together and agree a share. Most importantly though after the 1982 war here all concept of a permanent Argentine prescence here on the islands is just a non starter. All of us who were alive at that time will have to die off first. I though the Arg claim really comes down to a british prescence in the area and the principle that the land was yours? Surely something along the lines of my idea(Ok it can be modifies and improved) would satisy those principles and would earn Arg respect internationally as well as it would thus also be getting out of a colonial situation by owning us against our wishes.
Mar 11th, 2010 - 12:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0So tell me why you'd ignore the fact that Argentina chose to launch a disastrous war in prefence to a trip to the ICJ? Who has the closed mind?
Mar 11th, 2010 - 01:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Justin, are you thinking correctly, or you are a slow learner?<br />
An arbitration court is not mandatory
Argentina invited in 1888 to settle the dispute in court: uk DOES NOT WANT TO SIT!!!!
In the link count how many time Argentina wanted to settle the issue by court.
How many do you count?
4 or 5 times?
Do you know how to count?
IS iN THE TERRAGNO DOCUMENT AND MANY OTHERS.
IF ARGENTINA INVITES THE OTHER PART, IS NOT COMPULSORY!!<br />
ENTIENDE AMIGO??<br />
DO YOU UNDERSTAND??<br />
In the document I posted before it shows clearly, why uk never will go to arbitration: BECAUSE THERE IS A STRONG CHANCE THEY WILL LOOSE!!
EVEN IF THEY LOSSE, THEY CAN NOT ENFORCE IT!!<br />
<br />
Here read a long list of protest by Argentina, including invitation to settle the dispute by court:<br />
http://books.google.ca/books?id=cNKtX4mYVZUC&pg=PA89&lpg=PA89&dq=how+many+times+argentina+propose+britain+to+go+to+arbitration+for+the+falklands&source=bl&ots=i8CjjYUlwW&sig=aZXDgKFAMLaVS5hzR9g7KyYZiBU&hl=en&ei=LT2YS-DxJ8uslAez8pWnDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CA4Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=&f=false<br />
<br />
These are the maps that shows Malvinas(called at that time Islas de los PAtos (because of the penguins) or SANSON<br />
Lo prueba la cartografía de la época: Cartas Náuticas de Reinel (1522-23), de Diego de Ribero (1529) y de Agnese (1536-45), y especialmente el “Islario” de Alonso de Santa Cruz (1541)<br />
Those are maps. IS THE FINAL PROOF.<br />
uk DID NOT DISCOVER MALVINAS!<br />
<br />
<br />
Hum...
Mar 11th, 2010 - 04:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0I just wonder why the economist Beef didn’t answer the post of Daniel.
Some people live in eternal denial and find really hard to face reality.
Is just your case Beef?
I'm afraid that 'living in denial' of reality is very much the Argentine state of mind on this issue.
Mar 11th, 2010 - 06:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0ISLANDER, i think that most you dont know how to separate the past from the actual moment, during the militar dictatorship we were not neather happy, more than 30000 disidents desapared, aprox 400 babys were born in captivity, and thousands of argentines were exiliated, etc etc, as you can see it wasen't a happy scenario for us.<br />
Mar 11th, 2010 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In recent times we have a very consolidated democracy, we have anyway very serious problems, but we had many achievements too since a couple of years ago, so, it's imposible the posibility of a new invation as most you think, believe it or not, firstly because invading the islands means a new war on the way with the u.k., beside people are not going to allow the humanitarian cost of a war, it will be a terrible cost for the imblecill authority who decides to invade that territory again.<br />
On the other hand, if thinking about this idiot posibility makes happy most islanders, to keep on rejecting to discuss the dispute with argentina, it's your problem guys, it only shows the closed mentality of your side, and how far you are from the reality.<br />
<br />
I understand perfectly that most you will allways prefer to cut your balls before the islands are under argentine sovereignty, you dont need to die off first to find a fair solution, maybe what i propose is not good enough, and i am sure there are planty of good proposals wich could satisfy both parts, what should change firstly, is the mentality of both sides, my goverment must talk to your the f.i.g only, and most you should change your view about us, and understand once and for all, that it's imposible the posibility of a new invation, beside we dont want to colonize the islands, we are not a colonial empire, we just want to excercise our rights, in a place that we consider as part of our territory, or unless both sides must arrive to agreement to explote the resorcies of that area, because we must think in our future ganerations, and you have to think in yours too.<br />
Beside, i would like to debate deeply with you about who are the owners of those lands.
Let's kill all of them and invade the UK that would be a fair solution and the world will be grateful we us.
Mar 11th, 2010 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Miguel your mum needs her cunt sewn up, she is getting slack, to slack for even an elephant. where do i start on your sister?
Mar 12th, 2010 - 11:19 am - Link - Report abuse 047 - Happy to debate any issue but have been busy of late with students preparing for finals around Easter time and dissertations etc. This board is my occassional play area when I have five mins. We should be hearing some news on the first drill before too long so am keeping a keen eys on my share portfolio! It is going one way or the other!
Mar 12th, 2010 - 12:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Argentines seem to be highly hyprocritical...they call for an end of British “colonialism”, even though the people of the Falklands want to remain British, but in the typical Argentines mind they are saving us from being controlled, and by saving us they mean control us and turn us into an Argentine colony. This logic seems laughable. I want the freedom to choose my political, economic and cultural future, and I am able to do so under British sovereignty. A freedom the UN gives us. If the world forces us to abondon this right under Argentine influence, Argentina should also give it up.
Mar 12th, 2010 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And finally, I love the fact that jorge! has stopped calling Justin a Nazi, after Justin correctly pointed out that the British helped defeat the Nazis while Argentina provided them refuge.
I recommend people in here listen to the facts, facts which are provided by Justin.
“...we just want to excercise our rights”
Mar 12th, 2010 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Axel ..... what rights? You have NONE.
Well you just started one so strap on for the ride,
Mar 12th, 2010 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No No and no they cannot claim any territorial integrity, remember Territorial integrity was created for the benefit of ensuring the unity of newly independent colonies, not for justifying sovereignty claims, I have no idea who Lowell Gustaffson is but I’m sure his arguments if you say they are true, have come in for extreme criticism and scrutiny, perhaps look up people like Hannum Hurst, Christ Brown, Allen Buchanan for starters, take very dim views on territorial integrity as a means to silence self determination, which this is.
“Malvinenses”- Islanders thank you, nobody asked them who decides what they are called.
Yes they can, self determination is universal and applicable to all people, it has nothing to do with not allowing Argetines the right to settle there!
Goodness grief, so only Argentines are allowed self determination is that what your implying? As before Argentina has never once offered a coherent argument of why they aren’t and with each passing year, it’s gets even more ridiculous.
I would have to see it to believe it first that Argentines wanted to buy land, what buissness would they want any way other than to deliberately alter the demographics of the population in order to gain sovereignty, probably why Chileans are welcomed because they respect and honour differences?
Why are they not entitdled to self determination because of 1833, iterate the point, I’m not seeing it? Why shouldn’t indigenous people demand you leave, because you dispossessed them from their land????
What about Islas D’estodas, if your on about a very obscure map done in 2007 that was supposedly trying to show that the UK intended to annex it by this time last year, waiting for that to happen still…..
If you consider them your friends, why are you calling them a name they do not wish to be associated with, why are you saying that they are not allowed the same rights as you enjoy, I’m finding it hard to understand this logic…..
No we don’t why do we need the Beagal Channel, 90% of our trade is conducted within Europe itself, with another 10% with our neighbour across the waters US.
We are not even bothering you, leave them alone first Please, you’re bothering them denying them rights, doing everything in your power to disrupt their livelihood and destroy their economy.
Yes they can, self determination is universal and applicable to all people, it has nothing to do with not allowing Argetines the right to settle there!
Mar 12th, 2010 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Goodness grief, so only Argentines are allowed self determination is that what your implying? As before Argentina has never once offered a coherent argument of why they aren’t and with each passing year, it’s gets even more ridiculous
Yes, Argentina can put a few hundreds people in the orkneys and claim the island by themself.
In 1982, when they were 10.000 constrict in Malvinas, they made an unoficial poll, to see if they wanted to be brits or argies.
Guess what: 99%, says they want to be Argentines, the 1% were a few islander around saying no.
Result: The illegal sending of the brit fleet was against the law.
Again you did not respect the wishes of the population.
These topics have already been studied in much more details by people specializing in law.
To make the thing worse, the population there was severely restricted as well.
If you brit did not mess around, there would had been a normal interaction, with the people.
Please be serious about that!!!
So the UN is never, ever going to allow for that!!
Comprende little raurie??
HOYTRED, i would like to debate with you or with any other islanders about te rights of both in the islands, like it or not as long as both sides dont understand that the solution must benefit both parts, the status quo will remain for years, specially with people who thinks like you.<br />
Mar 12th, 2010 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The malvinas-falklands are not a caprice for all of us, we dont claim for them because we are a nation of resentfull people who doesen't accept the it lost a war, wich was absolutly illegitimate, there was no any consultation to the population to know if we wanted or not to invade the islands, one day to the other people woke up, and saw in national tv adress that argentina had recovered the islands, all te rest of the history we all allready know it.<br />
Your islands are ours too, all the rest of argentina belongs to te islanders too, if you reject it, it's your problem, the truth is that my country never reognize the legitimity of the british ocupation in te islands, i know that our claim wasen't continuous, but it also true that argentina during many years was almost a british colony, the british managed our economy for more than 100 years, so, as you can see, we were not in conditions to claim anything to the u.k., it's not a romantic excuse, like or not, it was the truth, reed about our history if you dont believe me, on the other hand like i told you before, my country never recognized the legitimity of the british ocupation, maybe we still didn't lost our rights, when i find an expert in international law, i will eliminate all my doubts about the malvinas cause, those people knows much more than you and i.
Axel - I don'y really care what Argentina claims, they can claim that the moon is made of cheese, which is about as likely as Argentina ever getting its hands on the Falkland Islands. What I do care about is the effect of a bullying and beligerent neighbour on the islanders and their way of life. Argentina HAS NEVER had legitimate possession of the Falkland Islands. The islanders DO HAVE legitimate possesion and their wishes are paramount. The islander's wishes OUT VOTE Argentine wishes - both in law and in fact.
Mar 13th, 2010 - 01:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Estevez, you are an idiot. No trespassing army of occupation can claim any vote !
Mar 13th, 2010 - 01:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0estevez your logic is somewhat bizarre, thus obviously I don't understand. And you would do well not to mock little people, they can wallop you hard in the shins.
Mar 13th, 2010 - 01:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you went in there right now and occupied the Orkneys, you would need a few more than a couple hundred, the Orkneys have 12,000, you might be able to elect a county counciller but certainly not affect it's current status, but so long as you go through the relevant passport control and immigration services you are quite welcome to live there and make it Argentine over time as you wish.
Conscripts don't count as residents you know why, they weren't born there? It wasn't their home? They were an invading occupying force, slight difference between long term inhabitants and an imperialist occupation force Estevez!
Yes the have you know what I've got several of them in front of me now, 6 in fact 2 Argentine 1 Indian and 3 British papers, you know what? None of these political law makers reckon that Argentina has any right to undermine international law and common practice in deciding the future of ex-colonies by ignoring self determination.
What servere restrictions boy? The ones Argentina has enforced over the years, ban on flights, oil cooperation, fishing cooperation etc etc. I thought they were your comrades and brothers in arms! so why do they have to get us to argue their corner, somebody is doing something naughty?
If you didn't do 1982 perhaps there would be normal interaction, but there might have been during menem's era, but then your lot dropped in the polls and wheeled out the little propaganda pipe and like the Piper of Hamlin had the masses in Argentina dancing the tune they wanted to hear.
Lets get serious, lets let the islanders decide their own future, is that to ground breaking to ask? Are we asking too much here??
Once again the coherent Arguement i'm looking for proves elusive as a Tasmanian tiger.
I will say again, Is there any good reason why the islanders should not be entitled to self determination?
It is just very funny to see that Brits helped to drop Adolf Hitler when the Brits were the responsible of the rise of Hitler to power in Germany after the Weimarer Republik.
Mar 13th, 2010 - 07:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0The sanction imposed by UK France and USA after the WW I forced Germany into chaos, hyperinflation and anarchy. Hitler emerged in Germany as a result of all of this backed by the British’s Crown, US and the Bankers.
They thought that Adolf Hitler could take control over Germany and later Germany will become a puppet of the allies. UK and US bankers were financing the III Reich and notorious multinationals were supplying them with goods and oil including during the war.
George Bush’s grandfather (Prescott Bush and former US senator) was director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.
This information was confirmed and extracted from US National Archives and published by The Guardian (UK newspaper). Two former slave labourers at Auschwitz took civil action for damages against the Bush family for this matter. Pesscott Bush was director of New York-based Union Banking Corporation (UBC) that represented Thyssen’s US interests.
The British Crown’s involvement with the nazi’s Regime.
Edward VIII who later become The Duke of Windsor was also known as a supporter and helper of the Nazi regime.
Photo of Edward and Wife visiting Adolf Hitler BBC UK.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38748000/jpg/_38748681_hitler.jpg
Better known as the black sheep, Edward was during WWII a commander in a mission to France.
Edward was fascinated with the Nazi’s regime and that ended up to an open confrontation with the Primer minister Stanley Baldwin.
That was the reason why he was removed from the British Military Mission in France and was sent to The Bahamas as Governor and Commander-in-Chief. He wanted to reestablish the full control of the monarchy again in Britain and forced several institutional crises to force the resignation of the Primer Minister.
Prince Philip was also well known as a Nazi supporter and nexus to the Nazi Regime and UK’s Bankers to finance the III Reich.
Prince Philip pictured at Nazi funeral by ANDREW LEVY, Daily Mail UK
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38748000/jpg/_38748681_hitler.jpg
“Prince Philip has broken a 60-year public silence about his family's links with the Nazis.
In a frank interview, he said they found Hitler's attempts to restore Germany's power and prestige 'attractive' and admitted they had 'inhibitions about the Jews'.”
The list is very long and I would need an entire book to show the British Crown, British Bankers, Businessmen, Sir Lords, politicians, etc. involvement with the Nazi’s Regime.
The problem with Adolf Hitler was the same as that with Saddam Hussein, the monster became uncontrollable and turned against his masters creators. Like happened with Dr. Frankenstein’s creature in the novel book written by Mary Shelley.
British and the allies also participated in the shaping of the Ratlines system with centre in the Vatican or The Route of the Rats. This was the way Germans Nazi escaped from Germany and Fascist from Italy using Vatican’s political safe-conducts. The country destinations included USA, Canada, Argentina, Chile, Brazil, Middle East, etc.
So using Daniel Hannan MEP’s words:
You know and we know and you know that we know that you are good liars.
But can you please next time be more original? You are loosing your touch.
Lorenzo, apart from your twisted concept of history .... what point are you trying to make regarding the Falkland Islands ???
Mar 13th, 2010 - 08:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0And by the way, the only way Argentina cans retake its possession over the Island is by force.
Mar 13th, 2010 - 08:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Forget about diplomacy or talks with the British, they will twist any argument and will use any means to keep what had conquered by force.
Always had been like this with the British, nothing better that a good missile in their head to make them understand how serious you are. More bloody killer you are to them more respectful you will become to their eyes.
You cannot negotiate with the MAFIA you have to kill them and use the same tactics.
Argentina has to defeat clearly Britain in a very bloody war and remove British population from the Islands.
May be you can think that the removing the population is not a good approach ok so lets use British tactics instead.
After the retaken of the islands we renamed the islands to the new Malvinas and Palestine of the south and import from the Middle East some Palestinians willing to get rid of the British wannabe from their future home.
They will do a good job, believe me. Some talibans, Iranis and angry Iraqis will be welcome too.
They will be grateful with us and we will provide some justice to them.
@ Hoytred
Mar 13th, 2010 - 09:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don’t have to discus any point with you mate about Malvinas.
The only way to end this dispute is with a new war against Britain. And later remove the whole population from the Islands.
And my twisted concept of history is not mine is your own history, and its is explained by the Germans too, and some Americans not complacent with the lies made by your govt. and their govt. all the time.
Or you believe that everyone believe that you invaded Iraq because you want to free these people from oppression?
US and UK was backed Saddam Hussein to drag Iran into a bloody war and to take control of the oil resources in both countries. Your owns companies were providing Saddam with weapons. One of your companies were developing for Iraq a super cannon and to not be so evident to the world they split the project in branches and was carryout part in Germany, UK, France, Spain, Switzerland and northern Italy (Milan to be precise and the company there was BREA).
The head of the project was Gerald Vincent Bull a Canadian engineer who was assassinated outside his apartment in Brussels.
All the financing and logistic for the project was provided by the British.
Is you don’t know your own history its not my problem its your problem mate.
So the only people twisting the history here are you guys with your eternal lies and makeup.
You want to explain with lies what cannot be explained by any means.
You are the only people in the world that kills people to make them democratic persons. Do you really thinks that we are so stupid to believe that crap?
So we can kill you to make you more democratic as well who is gonna stop us to do so?
Ah! I know you 4 Typooms and your royal navy, you make me laugh Ha ha ha.
Lorenzo - amongst all the crap there is indeed one point you make about the Falkland Islands and strangely enough I agree with you. Argentina has no historical case, it has no legal case, it has in fact no case at all. Therefore the only way that Argentina can take possession of the Falkland Islands is to take them by force and hold them by force. Two attempts (1833 & 1982) failed. We'll be waiting when you try again and after Iraq and Afghanistan our troops are battle hardened. Bring it on!
Mar 13th, 2010 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0I will start with the last stupid comment 65 Hoytred,
Mar 13th, 2010 - 02:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0he says........”Two attempts (1833 & 1982) failed. We'll be waiting when you try again and after Iraq and Afghanistan our troops are battle hardened. Bring it on!“...........
We did not attempt anything in 1833 other than defend ourselves against your piracy. <br />
If Argentina hadn't had a case, we wouldn't be talking here. So, stop with your crap.<br />
<br />
<br />
And stupid M, you better put a name as your nickname. Who are you???? What I said about Justin in previous comments is what I think, you should read the book ”Hitler no perdió no la guerra” or something like that, I don't remember well now.
Mercopress, why don't you fix that f*cking <br/> problem?????
Mar 13th, 2010 - 02:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Its seems that Lorenzo was quite right about how the British twist everything, Prince Philip and Iraq.
Mar 13th, 2010 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 01- Hoytred said “amongst all the crap there is indeed one point you make about the Falkland Islands and strangely enough I agree with you. Argentina has no historical case, it has no legal case, it has in fact no case at all”
Lorenzo never mentioned that Argentina has not an historical case to base its claims.
Hoytred has make up by saying that he agrees with something that Lorenzo never said.
2- I was researching and what Lorenzo said about Prince Philip was true the interview exist and was published in UK’s newspaper and is named several times for different people as a Nazi.
His sisters were members of the Nazi party
Prince Philip pictured at Nazi funeral
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-379036/Prince-Philip-pictured-Nazi-funeral.html
The full pic http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-379036/Prince-Philip-pictured-Nazi-funeral.html
Two Americans discussing climate change pointed out that Prince Philip is a Nazi.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-379036/Prince-Philip-pictured-Nazi-funeral.html
another publication
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-379036/Prince-Philip-pictured-Nazi-funeral.html
Al Fayed called him Nazi
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-379036/Prince-Philip-pictured-Nazi-funeral.html
3- I found that the project for the Iraqis carryout by the British existed and was named Babylon and also parts or the project is in the Imperial War Museum Duxford.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-379036/Prince-Philip-pictured-Nazi-funeral.html
So the only one twisting and telling lies here apparently is Hoytred.
A very pathetic behavior shame on you.
The chances of Argentina being able to take on the UK in a military conflict are laughable. The UK was able to liberate the islands from an invading force that had the advantage of being based 7700 miles closer to the objective, and this was at a time that the forces were more comparable in terms of equipment and arsenal etc. Argentina is currently unable to mount an amphibious assault and has an antiquated air force. With the UK intelligence satelites and the OTH phased array systems, any attempt to mount an offensive would be extinguished as soon as it began.
Mar 13th, 2010 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It would be like lambs to the slaughter and a criminal waste of human life. Those suggesting that Argentina needs to mount a military offensive clearly lack any respect for the boys and girls of the Argentine armed forces. Shame on you!
Yes, we couldn't launch an attack against the invaders of Malvinas (for now) and the british militar superiority does not give you any right to be there, you should try to solve the sovereignty issue with us like UN says, oh but you only do that when it is in your interest don't you! Iran should respect UN resolutions, but UK does not give a sh*t, that's the way this world works for you isn't it!
Mar 13th, 2010 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jorge
Mar 13th, 2010 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It was Argentina that walked away from a joint agreement to establish a hydrocarbon industry in the Falklands. This left the FIG with no other option but to continue alone (as Argentina unlaterally withdrew from an agreement). The UN resolution indicates that any descision made should be in the “best interests” of the Islanders. If you believe in Universal Suffrage then I assume that you will agree with me that the Islanders are the ones to determine what is in their best interests. Although it has nothing to do with the Falklands I have no issue with the stance we are taking with Iran considering the way the Iranian leadership has been engaging in murder, rape and suppression of free speach.
Such cases need to be discussed on their individual merits and any attempt to draw comparisons (especially with completely disparate situations) indiates that you don't have a strong argument.
Your president is on her way out and for Argentina let us hope that the next president changes stance and thinks about the benefits a collaborative agreement on oil exlporation could have for Argentina and the Falkland Islands. Either accept the reality or continue to be a bitter and twisted individual and watch the business go elsewhere.
BEEF, you are right with what you say, i hope too that next president thinks about a collabotative agreement betwen both goverenments, anyway in a few aspects i agree with th policy of cristina, but i think that the worst she can do is to ignore the islanders, beside the f.ig. must be dipsosed to talk to argentina in order to find a fair solution for both parts.
Mar 13th, 2010 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On the other hand i found in you some one who thinks, you realised that a new invation to the islands is impossible, most your compatriots are so far away from the reality, they are convinced that in any moment argentina is going to invade them again, please, the worst mistake that most you make, is that you dont know to separate the historic context of the dictatorship, than the acual one.
HOYTRED, with an injudicious and ignorant like you, it doesen't worth to debate about absolutly anthing, you are not abble to give any intelligent and fair idea to find a solution to the conflict, your mind is so closed that you not even realise that avoiding to discuss about the dispute with argentina is not going to give you the chance of becomig into independent, anyway it's your problem, i am sure there are much more smart people in the islands who can give sustainable solutions, for both.
Mar 14th, 2010 - 12:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Marcela - I was agreeing that Argentina had no choice but to use force as it had no other way forward, historically or legally.
Mar 14th, 2010 - 12:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Jorge - as our Prime Minister recently indicated, there is nothing to discuss, nothing to debate. The issue is clear from our perspective and the world is unlikely/unwilling to get involved. Historical claims apart, the current situation is that the islander's rights are protected by UN Charters. They can be what they wish to be, so once again, there is nothing to discuss. The only debateable points lie in what sort of relationship the islanders wish to have with Argentina and how best to manage the resources within their respective areas. It is Argentina that withdrew from negotiations, and it is up to them to return.
In the meantime the Islanders are legally pursuing their own interests and should continue to ignore the posturing bully at their doorstep!
Whoever Rhaurie-Craughwell is, he gets my vote. Goodness you sound just so sensible. <br />
Mar 14th, 2010 - 01:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0<br />
I fear the 'Argentines must have shouters' luckily have never had the horrors of war on their doorstep. They've not seen how their soldiers were treated by their officers. Saddens me to the bone that they think any young Argentine should be faced with war again against the worlds best. Just ask some of them instead of rattling on about something you know nothing about. Many Argentines that come to the Falklands as tourists wonder what all this nonsense is about as they enter into our country which is English to the core. Being a Falkland Islander isn't about fighting with anyone. It's about enjoying our homeland and respecting everyone else in the world to get on and enjoy theirs. We have never threatened to invade Argentina so surely Argentina with something like 41 million people should follow our behaviour. In fact, we can honestly say we have never threatened anyone in our history, .... can Argentina say the same ............. of course not. If you border Argentina, you can be sure they have tried the bully tactic. Hopefully one day the good people in Argentina will have more say and thus educate their bully boys into being civilised. There would be such a lot to gain.
Axel - there is no ground for debate and no solution is required. The status quo seems to work. Yes, it would be nicer if the Falkland Islanders had a friendlier neighbour but they seem to get on with their lives pretty well regardless of the sabre rattling from next door. If the islanders chose independance tomorrow then the UK would support them, sometimes it seems only to be the intransigence of Argentina that keeps the islander's British. An independant Falkland Islands would have the support of the UN, could negotiate treaties with the UK and others regarding their defence and, should the oil industry take off, be self sufficient in all matters. A seat at the UN too ?? The islanders are, for all real intents and purposes, already independent. It's not the British that prevent the Falklands being truly independent ....... it's Argentina.
Mar 14th, 2010 - 03:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0You guys as always underestimate Argentina, Argentinean people can be very friendly with other nations help them when they are in need and sometimes can be very aggressive, ruthless fighters when they feel threaten by a foreign nation.<br />
Mar 14th, 2010 - 04:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0<br />
UK is an aggressive nation and that have been proven in British history itself.<br />
<br />
UK has provoked Argentina 3 times and dragged her into armed confrontations.<br />
<br />
British’s invasion in 1806 resulted in British defeat. <br />
British’s invasion in 1807 resulted in British defeat. <br />
<br />
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:La_Reconquista_de_Buenos_Aires.jpg<br />
<br />
<br />
Malvinas war 1982 and you were close to defeat.<br />
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:La_Reconquista_de_Buenos_Aires.jpg<br />
<br />
The scored now is 2 Argentina 1 UK.<br />
<br />
Less see what happen next time.<br />
<br />
And for those that think that Argentina cannot infringe a serious damage to UK main land are dead wrong.<br />
<br />
We are whites, European looking and EU passport holders, we can send to UK 3000 soldiers to your London City and you will not note that. Our soldiers only need a flight ticket to any European country France, Germany, Netherlands, Spain Italy, Ireland, etc. Already there we can make a target any place in Britain.<br />
We are specialists in dirty wars and terrorism I wouldn’t be so confident if I would be you guys.<br />
“...We are whites, European looking and EU passport holders .... ” - you are colonists then ... ?? No??
Mar 14th, 2010 - 05:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Charing Cross,
Mar 14th, 2010 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I didn't know Argentina allowed guns on aircraft?
This might be an issue its going to be hard to get 3,000 troops worth of equipment Ammo and Logistics through UK customs control no?
However here is some advice from Home office guidelines:
1. You will need to apply for an EU gun transport permit first.
2. you will also need to inform the head of the Metropolitan police at least 6 months in Advance that the Argentine army wishes to take it's 100 or so Aging rifles to London.
3. I would also recomend that you have a proper reason to be in possesion of these firearms, avenging the Malvinas to my knowlegde is not considered a good enough reason to be in possesion of category 1 Firearms.
4. You will need a reasonable rifle Range Facility with British standard cabinets being securley bolted to the armourey floor and wall, with Your rifles, working parts and category 1 ammunition all being stored seperately in a securley locked British standard ammunition and Bolt cabinet.
I can recomend that you store your firearms at Bisley in the Surrey, they will be able to provide you a large % of your ammunition needs, however if the Argentine ministry of defence is not willing to pay 85p per round, the the NSRA can provide ample amounts of remington .22 at their local Centre.
failure to abide by these guidelines faces a mandatory sentence of 5 years in Jail and/or an unlimited fine.
..............“The UN resolution indicates that any descision made should be in the “best interests” of the Islanders.”...........
Mar 14th, 2010 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0- What UN says is UK and Argentina must solve their deifferences regarding Malvinas (sovereignty) taking into account the interest of islanders. JUST THAT.
......................“Although it has nothing to do with the Falklands I have no issue with the stance we are taking with Iran considering the way the Iranian leadership has been engaging in murder, rape and suppression of free speach.”.....................
- Tell me how much free speech do you have in Rupert Murdoc Media, huh???
You are not better than them, look at your own media owners. I put aside BBC.
.............“Either accept the reality or continue to be a bitter and twisted individual and watch the business go elsewhere.”............
- The reality is that there is a colony here 500 Km away from where I am right now. We can't accept that! We'll NEVER accept that.
...........“Jorge - as our Prime Minister recently indicated, there is nothing to discuss, nothing to debate. The issue is clear from our perspective and the world is unlikely/unwilling to get involved. Historical claims apart, the current situation is that the islander's rights are protected by UN Charters. They can be what they wish to be, so once again, there is nothing to discuss”...............
- Well, you will have to discuss in future since we are not gonna make it easy for you here. Argentina is slowly growing and gaining more influence and in the long run we could gain practical support for other powerful countries. This is all business about. This world works that way, you'll see.
..............“Many Argentines that come to the Falklands as tourists wonder what all this nonsense is about as they enter into our country which is English to the core.”............
- That's not true! argentines who go there sign your books with “little Argentina” or “nice to be in this part of my country”. You are not a country and will never be!
....................“Being a Falkland Islander isn't about fighting with anyone. It's about enjoying our homeland and respecting everyone else in the world to get on and enjoy theirs. We have never threatened to invade Argentina so surely Argentina with something like 41 million people should follow our behaviour.”...................
- You did in 1833 remember, oh you don't read about that, something to be ashamed of.
You didn't threaten to invade Argentina, you just invaded Argentina three times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In 1806, 1807 and 1833!!!! Read something please!
............“Hopefully one day the good people in Argentina will have more say and thus educate their bully boys into being civilised. There would be such a lot to gain.”.................
- lol. We were historically more educated than you. Until 1982, many of you were totally analfabets. Did you know that many of you studied in argentine schools since UK didn't give a sh*t about your well-being???
............“there is no ground for debate and no solution is required. The status quo seems to work. Yes, it would be nicer if the Falkland Islanders had a friendlier neighbour but they seem to get on with their lives pretty well regardless of the sabre rattling from next door.”.............
- The status quo works for you because you have militar and economic power (for now), but let me tell you that future is coming with some surprises.
............“We are whites, European looking and EU passport holders”..........
- You surely live in B.A. It seems to me that you don't know deeply Argentina. Take a walk around Jujuy, Salta, Misiones, Chaco, Neuquen, Santa Cruz.................European looking?????? Get out of B.A. just a while and meet reality!!!!!!!!!
Rhaurie-Craughwell, you are not better than Charing Cross since you took considerable time to answer such nonsenses of him.
Jorge!, your grasp of history is flawed, corrupted by your education system that has promoted a biased and false history about Agentina and the Falkland Islands. So I suppose your refusal to see the truth is understandable to some extent. The internet however allows you to inspect source material so that your continuing ignorance is very much your own fault. I'm sure that your political leaders know the real truth which is why they've never allowed your claims to go to the International Court of Justice. If you are half-way intelligent you too can find the truth. Maybe one day Argentina will teach its children what really happened.
Mar 15th, 2010 - 02:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0”..............“The UN resolution indicates that any descision made should be in the “best interests” of the Islanders.”...........
Mar 15th, 2010 - 04:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0- What UN says is UK and Argentina must solve their deifferences regarding Malvinas (sovereignty) taking into account the interest of islanders. JUST THAT.”
What it says is:
bearing in mind the provisions and objectives of the Charter of the United Nations and of General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) and the interests of the population of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas)
You should readthe UNCharter, particularly article 73, which says:
Members of the United Nations which have or assume responsibilities for the administration of territories whose peoples have not yet attained a full measure of self-government recognize the principle that the interests of the inhabitants of these territories are paramount...
You do know what the word paramount means, don't you?
“We have never threatened to invade Argentina so surely Argentina with something like 41 million people should follow our behaviour.”...................
- You did in 1833 remember, oh you don't read about that, something to be ashamed of.
You didn't threaten to invade Argentina, you just invaded Argentina three times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In 1806, 1807 and 1833!!!! Read something please!”
The Falkland Islands have never invaded Argentina. And Argentina did not exist in 1806/07 so it cannot have been invaded then. The Falklands have never been Argentine territory and no invasion took place in 1833. Onslow asked the garrison to leave, which it did. Then he left himself.
@jorge
Mar 15th, 2010 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Province’s population
Jujuy 689.231
Neuquen 556.528
Salta 1.245.573
Misiones 1.094.636
Chaco 1.061.638
Santa Cruz 230.005
Total: 4.877.711
Even though you are right, I think you don’t because there are white people living in this provinces, the whole population of these provinces that you named as non white is 4.7877.711 millions and we are 41 millions do you know that?
And even thought someone looks pretty dark believe me they will be whites in London.
Have you ever been in Brixton, Clapan Juction, etc. in south London? I guess not
Misiones
Do they look blacks?
http://chismesdemisiones.com.ar/cs/photos/2007-09-06-001/images/50381/545x409.aspx
http://chismesdemisiones.com.ar/cs/photos/2007-09-06-001/images/50381/545x409.aspx
http://chismesdemisiones.com.ar/cs/photos/2007-09-06-001/images/50381/545x409.aspx
http://chismesdemisiones.com.ar/cs/photos/2007-09-06-001/images/50381/545x409.aspx
http://chismesdemisiones.com.ar/cs/photos/2007-09-06-001/images/50381/545x409.aspx
http://chismesdemisiones.com.ar/cs/photos/2007-09-06-001/images/50381/545x409.aspx
Salta
http://chismesdemisiones.com.ar/cs/photos/2007-09-06-001/images/50381/545x409.aspx
http://chismesdemisiones.com.ar/cs/photos/2007-09-06-001/images/50381/545x409.aspxo/salta/diario/2009/12/16/salta/unos-265-mil-saltenos-pagaran-el-aumento-en-la-electricidad/images/edesa.jpg/pa_thumb/imagex500x323.jpg
Chaco
http://chismesdemisiones.com.ar/cs/photos/2007-09-06-001/images/50381/545x409.aspx
97% of the Argentina’s population is European descendent and 3% is mestizo or not white (aborigine, Middle east, etc) someone don’t look white because even in Europe they don’t look like whites like some Italians, Spanish, English, Germans, French, etc. Or do you think that all Europeans are blond with blue eyes? Hum...
I don’t know were you live but who need to get out of the box seems to be you my friend.
British
http://chismesdemisiones.com.ar/cs/photos/2007-09-06-001/images/50381/545x409.aspx I don’t see many whites here. Do you?
http://chismesdemisiones.com.ar/cs/photos/2007-09-06-001/images/50381/545x409.aspx
http://chismesdemisiones.com.ar/cs/photos/2007-09-06-001/images/50381/545x409.aspx
http://chismesdemisiones.com.ar/cs/photos/2007-09-06-001/images/50381/545x409.aspx
French
http://chismesdemisiones.com.ar/cs/photos/2007-09-06-001/images/50381/545x409.aspx
http://chismesdemisiones.com.ar/cs/photos/2007-09-06-001/images/50381/545x409.aspx
Italians
http://chismesdemisiones.com.ar/cs/photos/2007-09-06-001/images/50381/545x409.aspx
Germans
http://chismesdemisiones.com.ar/cs/photos/2007-09-06-001/images/50381/545x409.aspx
Spanish
http://chismesdemisiones.com.ar/cs/photos/2007-09-06-001/images/50381/545x409.aspx
Go to London, Paris, Madrid, Milan, etc. and you will be shocked seems the Middle East now. People use funny stuff on their head and estrange customs like some aborigines in northern Argentina.
And by the way what are you doing wasting your time trying to make funny diplomacy with some Islanders and Chilotes Brits wannabe?
You can show them a letter from Elizabeth Queen II saying that Malvinas is part of the Argentina territory and they will keep saying the same thing.
Anyway here some black girls from Chaco dancing I hope you find something more interesting to do with your life.
You are just amazing...
Salute the black guy from Buenos Aires ha ha.
At least we are argeed that Charing Cross is an Idiot.
Mar 15th, 2010 - 01:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0- What UN says is UK and Argentina must solve their deifferences regarding Malvinas (sovereignty) taking into account the interest of islanders. JUST THAT.
And the interests of the Islanders are self-determination, so lets take them into account, we have, why don’t you? This resolution by the UN makes no mention of any desired outcome, the renunciation of the Sovereignty claim by Argentina, would for instance be a resolution of differences.
- Tell me how much free speech do you have in Rupert Murdoc Media, huh???
You are not better than them, look at your own media owners. I put aside BBC.
Irrelevant! Murdoch owns the Sun and News of the World, they are not media papers, football and soft porn, so 2 out 100,000 papers hmmm?
I would have you know that Murdoch despises the BBC considering it to be left wing bias, all news outlets are free and independent in this country even the BBC, which contrary to popular opinion is not government owned.
-“The reality is that there is a colony here 500 Km away from where I am right now. We can't accept that! We'll NEVER accept that”
Please define “Colony” since by all reasoning, under modern definition the Falklands are not a colony. And even if it were a colony why wont you accept it? think about it, it’s doing you know harm, it’s doing your country no harm, your country isn’t threatened strategically, economically, Socially by 4,000 people on some windswept islands? So why can’t you accept that.
Perhaps it’s not so much the concept of colony, but the very idea, that there are people who just don’t want to be part of Argentina?
“Well, you will have to discuss in future since we are not gonna make it easy for you here. Argentina is slowly growing and gaining more influence and in the long run we could gain practical support for other powerful countries. This is all business about. This world works that way, you'll see”
-Do I see veiled threats of aggression here? They are not doing you any harm, so why do you wish to make life hard?
-Argentina has declined in power and Influence over the years, Argentina will be eclipsed by the growing economic monster of Brazil people will flock to there, because it’s closer they won’t go 3,000 miles down the atlantic to invest money in a financial centre with an immature somewhat corrupt government with dogdy finances will they?
- how could you get practical support from lets say China and Russia? Those are countries who never do deals unless you offer them something? Buissness terms Jorge! Tell me why would the CEO of a multi national cooperation want to do an unconditional deal with a village shop over his dispute with next doors supermarket about the garden shed in the middle?
-The fact remains Jorge, the Falklands has something that China wants, lots of oil? They already brought up most of the Iraq oil fields
“That's not true! argentines who go there sign your books with “little Argentina” or “nice to be in this part of my country”. You are not a country and will never be!”
- Seeing as you’ve never been there, how can you substantiate your claim? The few who sign those books, are dead rude and lack courtesy, and are examples why the Falklands will never be Argentine.
-They are country and mighty proud one at that! Who are you to dictate who or who isn’t a country? To be a country you need to be in a defined territorial unit, a unique culture and unique identity, tick which category prevents the Falklanders being a country?
- You did in 1833 remember, oh you don't read about that, something to be ashamed of.
You didn't threaten to invade Argentina, you just invaded Argentina three times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In 1806, 1807 and 1833!!!! Read something please!
The falkalnders didn’t invade you in 1833, in fact it was never an invasion, of Argentina, as the country we today know as Argentina didn’t exist in 1833, a British Captain politely asked the garrison of 26 soldiers to leave, which they did, you rant as if thousands were slaughtered??? 1806 and 07 you were a colony of Spain, as well as apparently inherenting their land, your now inherenting their invasions? Quite the interpretation of Uti Possidis?
“- lol. We were historically more educated than you. Until 1982, many of you were totally analfabets. Did you know that many of you studied in argentine schools since UK didn't give a sh*t about your well-being???”
Ah typical Argentine arrogance, but seeing as you said educated in the past tense, I take it as admission that the tables have been turned?
“The status quo works for you because you have militar and economic power”
-1,000 soldiers and a few wee boats is military power? Christ, I wonder what would happen when put in a few more bigger boats? And a few more Aircraft?
The UK continue to be an economic powerhouse, we are only 20 miles from all our international trading partners, the EU, for 1,000 years London has been the centre of trading in Europe
“Get out of B.A. just a while and meet reality!!!!!!!!!”
-Get out of BA visit the islands and meet reality!!!!
” ... 97% of the Argentina’s population is European descendent and 3% is mestizo or not white (aborigine, Middle east, etc) ... ” ------ so you are nearly all colonists then? You are not the indigenous population and should not have any right to self-determination ?? I think that's how your argument goes isn't it??
Mar 15th, 2010 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Rhaurie-Craughwell
Mar 15th, 2010 - 10:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BBC is an estate owned corporation funding with money from taxpayer.
In UK exist a license fee to see TV like in Italy to guarantee that estate owned Broadcasting gets fresh funds from taxpayer. So doesn’t matter if you only see channel 4, etc. if you have a TV and antenna receiving any signal you have to pay the license. Is like a tax because everyone has a TV in UK.
So the independence of your BBC relays on the good will of politicians and your govt. that is the reason why none in BBC can criticize openly the govt. in your country because presentations and will be pressed or worst fired. Ruppert Murdoch
BBC always sticks with the policy of govt. in turn your BBC in Argentina will be consider as the official bias voice of the government.
Your BBC will be impartial when become a private holding, thing that will never happen because UK govt. will lose the power to control public opinion.
This is not worth a discussion really, if the British find oil in the islands, and they will, they will not be able to extract it in a profitable way without continental support (real infrastructure, pipelines to the continent, manpower) and Argentina will never agree to that. <br />
Mar 16th, 2010 - 12:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0No other country in south america would do so either. So this is just a bunch of private companies making their stock go up a bit because they are trying to get acquired by bigger companies with a good market position. <br />
It's always about money.<br />
<br />
As for the actual sovereingty, there is no discussion either. There is a document that says it all: Treaty of Utrecht, followed by the Nootka Sound Convention <br />
Bottomline, Great Britain gets to keep Gibraltar if it abandons the South American territories... nowadays UK has both territories, so guess who has to pack and go home?<br />
Cheers
Map - to get some idea of the real history, please read - www.falklandshistory.org/spanish4.pdf
Mar 16th, 2010 - 02:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0The oil industry will be able to extract without Argentina's assistance should the oil be worth the effort and do you really think that your neighbours will support Argentina and in the process miss out on the huge revenues to be made by assisting the Falkland Islanders?? Muttering support at a conference is one thing, national finances are something else.
Marcelo, you have a point that the the BBC licence fee is like a tax, but that is an decision for us as a country. For the time being we British are largely happy with the way the BBC functions. By the way, the BBC is not a state owned company, it's a Chartered company, much like an association, and the government does not control the BBC.
Mar 16th, 2010 - 08:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0As for bias, you obviously have never seen or heard BBC reporters Jeremy Paxman or John Humphrys in full flow. They don't pull any punches with Government ministers and they are not the only BBC reporters unafraid to challenge the Government's version of events...
Marcelo.
Mar 16th, 2010 - 09:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your somewhat flawed Logic begs a bit of education
“BBC is an estate owned corporation funding with money from taxpayer”
-It's not state owned, if it was it would receive direct founding from the government, rather than employing an outside company to collect the TV licence fee, The BBC has no means to controlled by the Government.
So the independence of your BBC relays on the good will of politicians and your govt.
-It does not, the BBC uncovered evidence of No 10 fudging the so called dodgy dossier on the Iraq war, quite the scandal, they also reported extensively on the current expenses scandal......Thats hardly what I call goodwill? During the Suez they were condemed as a “comfort to the enemy”! Where is the goodwill???
“that is the reason why none in BBC can criticize openly the govt. in your country because presentations and will be pressed or worst fired”
No they won't as stated above none have been yet, can you provide me evidence of this happening?
“Ruppert Murdoch”
Rupert Murdoch has nothing to do with the BBC at all, he owns Sky the Sun and News of the World, of which he has virtually no input, as I stated earlier he condems the BBC as left wing Bias.
“BBC always sticks with the policy of govt. in turn your BBC in Argentina will be consider as the official bias voice of the government”
-As I said no it doesn't it reports impartially like it's supposed to and it gets on the governments case quite alot of the time watch Question time and Newsnight, you will see this is not the case. In Argentina I reckon it's only the official voice of bias because it has the word British in it and just reports on the current facts
“Your BBC will be impartial when become a private holding, thing that will never happen because UK govt. will lose the power to control public opinion”
The government does not and cannot control public opinion, because governements change every decade at the most, so if left wing govt suddenly loses an election to a right wing party, how the hell was it controlling public opinion, since quite obviously Public opinion turned against it???
The BBC fufils a very nice role holding Politicians to account, you should how some of them squirm on Question time or the Andrew Marr show
Channel 3-4-5 and others report the same thing over the Falklands, that it's not yours and the islanders should stay British, are they thus the Official voice of “government Bias??”
......................“Jorge!, your grasp of history is flawed, corrupted by your education system that has promoted a biased and false history about Agentina and the Falkland Islands. So I suppose your refusal to see the truth is understandable to some extent. The internet however allows you to inspect source material so that your continuing ignorance is very much your own fault.”...............
Mar 16th, 2010 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0- All I know about Malvinas history is what I learnt from internet. Nothing that I told you in my previous comment is from my “”corrupted educational system“”. The only corrupted thing here is your brain, GET ONE!
..............“Members of the United Nations which have or assume responsibilities for the administration of territories whose peoples have not yet attained a full measure of self-government recognize the principle that the interests of the inhabitants of these territories are paramount...
You do know what the word paramount means, don't you?”....................
- Yes! and it talks about interests, not wishes. End of story!
............“The Falkland Islands have never invaded Argentina. And Argentina did not exist in 1806/07 so it cannot have been invaded then.”..........
- Common!!!!! We are talking about the british here. You invaded Buenos Aires, ok, It was not Argentina, but It was the same city with the same people, in practical terms is the same.
..................“The Falklands have never been Argentine territory and no invasion took place in 1833. Onslow asked the garrison to leave, which it did. Then he left himself.”..............
- This is deaf conversation since you refuse to recognize what happened that year. Ohhhh the Onslow thing, well, I could go to your house with my gun, get into it by force and nicely ask you to live. How would you call that, HYPOCRITE????
...................“Even though you are right, I think you don’t because there are white people living in this provinces, the whole population of these provinces that you named as non white is 4.7877.711 millions and we are 41 millions do you know that?”...............
- I did not name those provincies as non white ones. You have to take a look and see that practically half of argentine population is not european looking. I'm from Santa Cruz, my father is from Corrientes and I've been in several argentine provincies, so I know what I'm talking about.
.........“And even thought someone looks pretty dark believe me they will be whites in London.”...........
- I don't understand!
..............“Misiones
Do they look blacks?”...............
- Sorry, I've been in Misiones and I can tell that practically half of then are not european looking. I'm not saying they are blacks!
..............”97% of the Argentina’s population is European descendent and 3% is mestizo or not white (aborigine, Middle east, etc) someone don’t look white because even in Europe they don’t look like whites like some Italians, Spanish, English, Germans, French, etc. Or do you think that all Europeans are blond with blue eyes? Hum...”................
- You only see what you want to see.
Un grupo de investigadores pertenecientes a diversas instituciones científicas de Argentina, Estados Unidos, Suecia y Guatemala, dirigidos por Michael F. Seldin de la Universidad de California concluyó que:
* La estructura genética promedio de la población argentina contiene un 78% de contribución europea, un 19,4% indígena y un 2,5% africana (usando el algoritmo bayesiano).
* 4 individuos sobre 94 mostraron una contribución genética africana mayor del 10%.
* En las 94 personas examinadas la contribución amerindia varía ampliamente desde 1,5% al 84,5%.
Almost 25% are directly descendents from natives and that does not mean the other 75% are european looking. Jujuy and Salta are very influenced by Bolivia and Peru. Formosa, Corrientes and Misiones are influenced by Paraguay.
Argentina, la europea de sudamerica???? mmmmmm I don't think so.
................“And by the way what are you doing wasting your time trying to make funny diplomacy with some Islanders and Chilotes Brits wannabe?”.............
- I'm not wasting my time. I'm just posting my view on several thing in this site. I don't make funny diplomacy, just talking to them, and please do not say “chilotes”!!!!. My mother is “chilota” because she is from Chiloe island, but the rest of chileans are just chileans, not “chilotes”, that's an offensive term.
...............“You can show them a letter from Elizabeth Queen II saying that Malvinas is part of the Argentina territory and they will keep saying the same thing.”..............
- Hopefully, one day they will understand and get out of the brain-washing policy aplied to them by UK.
..................“Anyway here some black girls from Chaco dancing I hope you find something more interesting to do with your life.”...........
- I study electronic engineering and english language. Are these things interesting for you?
...............“You are just amazing...”..............
- I am! Everyone is in some way!
..................“And the interests of the Islanders are self-determination, so lets take them into account, we have, why don’t you? This resolution by the UN makes no mention of any desired outcome, the renunciation of the Sovereignty claim by Argentina, would for instance be a resolution of differences.”................
Mar 16th, 2010 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0- Self-determination does not aplly to british citizens in the south atlantic islands since they are not colonized by a foreign power, they are the colonizers, or at least their descendents.
Why would we have to give up our claim? Can you come up with something more original or you are too drunk to think something?
........“Irrelevant! Murdoch owns the Sun and News of the World, they are not media papers, football and soft porn, so 2 out 100,000 papers hmmm?”..............
- You forgot to mention “the times” and “sky news”.
I did not say anything against the BBC, I like it.
...............“Please define “Colony” since by all reasoning, under modern definition the Falklands are not a colony. And even if it were a colony why wont you accept it? think about it, it’s doing you know harm, it’s doing your country no harm, your country isn’t threatened strategically, economically, Socially by 4,000 people on some windswept islands? So why can’t you accept that.”...............
- Very simple, It is our terretorie. That's the only reason!
..........“Perhaps it’s not so much the concept of colony, but the very idea, that there are people who just don’t want to be part of Argentina?”................
- There are for sure many argentines living in London and don't want to be British, but they accept they live in a foreign country and they accept to live under their flag. Why do islanders refuse to recognize they live in argentine land??? Why they refuse to live under argentine flag given the fact they live in our country????
..............“Do I see veiled threats of aggression here? They are not doing you any harm, so why do you wish to make life hard?”............
- No threats, nor aggression. They are insulting us since 1833 raising that f*cking flag instead of the argentine. They are insulting us since we have to go there with a passport as if we were foreigners in our land.
...................“Argentina has declined in power and Influence over the years, Argentina will be eclipsed by the growing economic monster of Brazil people will flock to there, because it’s closer they won’t go 3,000 miles down the atlantic to invest money in a financial centre with an immature somewhat corrupt government with dogdy finances will they?”..............
- Argentina was a big and very important country once and colud be big and very important again in future. We have the same land and more resources. Do not underestimate us! You ARROGANT!
Brazil is doing well and that's good for us since we trade with them. We need them for some things and they need us for others.
.................“how could you get practical support from lets say China and Russia? Those are countries who never do deals unless you offer them something? Buissness terms Jorge! ”.................
- That's right. You don't know what Argentina can offer them in future. There are first steps, grow, grow, grow and grow, then you'll see.
MONEY MAKES THIS WORLD WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
.............“The fact remains Jorge, the Falklands has something that China wants, lots of oil?”..................
- Really???? I thought they were just seeing if oil were enough to be profitable and I thought they did not know yet the quality of that oil.
May be you have a “flash-news” for the rest of the world. lol
................“Seeing as you’ve never been there, how can you substantiate your claim? The few who sign those books, are dead rude and lack courtesy, and are examples why the Falklands will never be Argentine.”.............
- We are not being rude for saying Malvinas are ours. Just the thruth my little arrogant friend.
......................“They are country and mighty proud one at that! Who are you to dictate who or who isn’t a country?”...............
- They are not a country because they are in argentine terretorie and let me think.........................................We didn't give them any kind of independence.
....................“To be a country you need to be in a defined territorial unit, a unique culture and unique identity, tick which category prevents the Falklanders being a country?”.................
- You forgot to mention “”you need to be in your own terretorie to be a country“” and this is not the case.
.................“The falkalnders didn’t invade you in 1833, in fact it was never an invasion, of Argentina, as the country we today know as Argentina didn’t exist in 1833, a British Captain politely asked the garrison of 26 soldiers to leave, which they did, you rant as if thousands were slaughtered??? ”.............
- Who the f*ck was him to ask someone else to live of Malvinas???????
Just in case you don't know, any thinking person would call him a PIRATE!
................“
Ah typical Argentine arrogance, but seeing as you said educated in the past tense, I take it as admission that the tables have been turned?”..............
- You have to be more original. You are the ones here being accussed of arrogants. Islanders are still ignorants. The vast majority of them does not know how the hell they got there.
................“1,000 soldiers and a few wee boats is military power? Christ, I wonder what would happen when put in a few more bigger boats? And a few more Aircraft?”...............
- Now you are looking like a stupid. If we were to take our islands by force, we would have the decadent, but still powerful royal navy the next day.
.................“The UK continue to be an economic powerhouse, we are only 20 miles from all our international trading partners, the EU, for 1,000 years London has been the centre of trading in Europe”..............
- Everything has an end in this world. You should know about that.
God damn it! I wasted a lot af time answering all your crap!
.................“Your BBC will be impartial when become a private holding, thing that will never happen because UK govt. will lose the power to control public opinion.”............
Mar 16th, 2010 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0- Sorry, but in Argentina we have a very big private holding called CLARIN and it is not impartial AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!
They only defend their interests, no matter if that means to go against the interests of the majority. They strongly criticize goverment because they want to dominate all the media in Argentina.
......................“For the time being we British are largely happy with the way the BBC functions. By the way, the BBC is not a state owned company, it's a Chartered company, much like an association, and the government does not control the BBC.”.............
- The first time, I think, I agree with you Archibalito.
BBC helped me a lot to learn english and its spanish site is a very good one.
Nice that we can agree for once Jorge! Well at least on something.
Mar 17th, 2010 - 08:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Still, I find your logic quite interesting to say the least: According to you self determination does not apply to colonists or their descendants and Argentines have 78% European blood. So would that not make Argentines 78% colonist or at least descendants of colonists? Why is Argentina allowed to choose its own fate, exercise self determination and yet you deny that right to your neighbours?
Jorge - you are some kind of idiot because you cannot understand that Argentina has NO real claim to the islands. Argentina's best case lay with Vernet but even that's full of holes. The islander's right to self determination is as great as the argentine people's right to self determination. This means that the UN will end up supporting the islanders against Argentina should the islanders opt for total independance.
Mar 17th, 2010 - 10:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0ARGENTINA HAS NEVER OWNED THE FALKLAND ISLANDS .... and it is highly unlikely that she ever will !
While I'm here - rumour has it that the drilling is showing positive results and the SUN newspaper (??) is saying that a nuclear submarine is patrolling within the British waters around the Falkland Islands !!
No Roberts. Self-determination does not apply to them. If they want to be british and live under britsh flag, then go to Britain. Not here in argentine soil.
Mar 17th, 2010 - 12:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hoytred, if I am an idiot, you are a stupid asshole.
How could you say “”UN will end up supporting the islanders against Argentina“”??? Are you some kind of fortune teller, you idiot???
................“ARGENTINA HAS NEVER OWNED THE FALKLAND ISLANDS .... and it is highly unlikely that she ever will !”............
- eehhhhhhhhhrrrrrr whatever asshole!
...............”While I'm here - rumour has it that the drilling is showing positive results and the SUN newspaper (??) is saying that a nuclear submarine is patrolling within the British waters around the Falkland Islands !!”...............
- Do you know what you can do with submarine????? yeah, bend over and put that into your.............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Actually self determination does apply to them Jorge. Through the UN Charter and several UN resolutions, but let's not let the facts get in your way...
Mar 17th, 2010 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here we go again, jorge the rubber dick sucker is abusing everyone that does not agree with him. You are vermen!! One sub is all it will take to fry some grease fagot boy.
Mar 17th, 2010 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stop drilling and start pumping!!!!!!!! ££££££££££££££££££££££££££
Jorge ! - the IQ of my asshole is unknown to me but I suspect it is somewhat higher than your own. Indeed I suspect your collar size is higher than your IQ. Excuse me while I repeat myself...... “ ARGENTINA HAS NEVER OWNED THE FALKLAND ISLANDS .... and it is highly unlikely that she ever will !” Just in case you haven't grasped the message.
Mar 17th, 2010 - 03:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0¡Bien Jorge!
Mar 18th, 2010 - 03:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Los dejastes sin argumentos, logico no lo tienen.
Se le fue la famosa flema inglesa, comenzaron a insultar y a tratar de amedrentarnos con su submarino.
Aca no hay miedo, ¿Sera el tercer intento de invasiones inglesas a estas tierras? y por tercera vez los hecharemos.
Que herror que Hoytred, J A Roberts y el resto de banda de aqui no esten en el ministerio de relaciones exteriores ingleses, antes de 1982 las malvinas se devolverian a argentina.
Ellos demostrar su idiotes.
Antonio, I don't know why you're congratulating Jorge. He never answers difficult questions in a reasoned way, he simply resorts to ad hominem arguments...
Mar 18th, 2010 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Self-determination does not aplly to british citizens in the south atlantic islands since they are not colonized by a foreign power, they are the colonizers, or at least their descendents”
Mar 18th, 2010 - 02:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0-Not a good enough reason to deny it, they have lived there 180 years, merley because they are descended from Colonists, is not an excuse to deny what is a universally applicable Human Right, by you logic anyone who is descended from a colonist should not be allowed self determination, which I would imagine would have serious ramifications for most of the American continent.
“Why would we have to give up our claim? “
-Because the interests of human Rights and International justice as well as basic logical morality compels you too.
“Very simple, It is our terretorie. That's the only reason!”
-Not what I asked, define the term “colony”
“There are for sure many argentines living in London and don't want to be British, but they accept they live in a foreign country and they accept to live under their flag. Why do islanders refuse to recognize they live in argentine land??? Why they refuse to live under argentine flag given the fact they live in our country????”
-Then why cannot you accept the presense of British peoples who DON’t wish to be ruled by you? It hasn’t been Argentine land for 180 years, how can it therefore be yours, how something be yours in the Past, Present and Future tense?
“ No threats, nor aggression. They are insulting us since 1833 raising that f*cking flag instead of the argentine. They are insulting us since we have to go there with a passport as if we were foreigners in our land”
-How is that an insult, you have to pretty much fly anywhere with a passport nowadays? I don’t see it is of great inconvenience, and you are foreign fields, your on a group of Islands, which Argentina has never effectively controlled, 500 Km from it’s mainland, with a climate and people wholly different to what a vast majority of Argentines are used to. BTW even I have to fly with a passport there odd eh? You don’t see me kicking a fuss. Please don’t deny the threats and aggression, Argentina has been a remarkably bad neighbour to such a small nation.
“Argentina was a big and very important country once and colud be big and very important again in future. We have the same land and more resources. Do not underestimate us! You ARROGANT!”
-we did underestimate you once in 1982, we underestimated your capacity for stupid nationalistic point scoring, it’s not happening again, as I said, Argentina is routinely mocked in International diplomatic circles, I am particularly fond of a quote by a Falklander: “Lets put it this way Argentines are a very excitable people”
“That's right. You don't know what Argentina can offer them in future. There are first steps, grow, grow, grow and grow, then you'll see.
MONEY MAKES THIS WORLD WORKS”
-Your right I don’t know what you could offer them in the future? But that’s the probelem you don’t! The Falklands though, 60 billion barrels of oil? Won’t be long until the Chinese start buying drilling licences and Argentina will have to sit and think of what could have been. Shell drilled several successful bore holes which were able to produce gushes of the stuff back in 1997. Oil quality is almost negigibale refineries are so advanced you could almost refine Black from white
“We are not being rude for saying Malvinas are ours. Just the thruth my little arrogant friend”
-No it’s dead rude, and pathetic I would be well pissed of if somebody started putting political slogans in my guest book, those people would never be invited again. A bit of a parody on the whole issue eh?
“They are not a country because they are in argentine terretorie and let me think.........................................We didn't give them any kind of independence”
You don’t need to be independent to be a country, read the question again Jorge…..But whether you gave them independence or not, you are and never were the effective ruling power, I say again how can they be in Argentine territory when you don’t rule it?
“You forgot to mention “”you need to be in your own terretorie to be a country“” and this is not the case”
-Oh but they are Jorge, I don’t see any Argentine government with an effective mandate to govern those places? other than the symbolic title with no relevance in Tierra del Fuego. I say again how can they be your territory, when quite clearly your not ruling it?
“ Who the f*ck was him to ask someone else to live of Malvinas???????
Just in case you don't know, any thinking person would call him a PIRATE!”
-Oh yes the typical Pirate card, but again you fugde the question, 26 bored Soldiers who had murdered their own officer, were politely asked in a coutesy manner to leave disputed British territory, he politely did so, with the flag of Rio Plata (not Argentina) all wrapped up delicately. Seriously got to be one of the lamest acts of Piracey I ever heard of?
“You have to be more original. You are the ones here being accussed of arrogants. Islanders are still ignorants. The vast majority of them does not know how the hell they got there”
-Ah so now Islanders are not allowed to think? because you know their own history better than themselves? Despited them being there 180 years (and in some cases longer) and you not living there, how very esteemed of you!
“Now you are looking like a stupid. If we were to take our islands by force, we would have the decadent, but still powerful royal navy the next day”
Please do refer back to my original statement, you seemed obsessive about the British military presense claiming it’s a massive threat to Argentina, when it quite obviously isn’t. But how can you take your islands? I say again, how can they be yours when clearly your government cannot legislate them?
“Everything has an end in this world. You should know about that”
Pray do tell then, in that case I take it you support my hypothesise that Aregntina will fracture into at least 4 maybe more different sovereign states? London however will always be there, whether or not the UK will, but as the successor state to the UK England will undoubtedly continue to be guardian of the Islanders.
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