MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
UK reaffirms Falklands’ self determination and British sovereignty
The British Foreign Office reaffirmed Wednesday the right to self determination of the Falkland Islands and dismissed the latest statements calling for sovereignty negotiations over the Islands with Argentina. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesYup, same old, same old. The OAS make their standard declaration and the UK responds in the same old way. All rhetoric, all going nowhere !
Jun 09th, 2010 - 11:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hasta la vista babies!
Vice Chancellor Victorio Taccetti speaking before Congress, “questioned the installation of several oil platforms on Argentina's continental areas”
Jun 10th, 2010 - 01:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Shows how in touch with reality he is, for starters there is only one oil platform, and secondly it is not an “oil Platform” but a drilling exploration Platform designed to discover reserves of Gas and Oil and other forms of Hyrdocarbons.
Argentina has always been infantile in it's understanding of world and diplomcay the 1970's up until 1982 pretty much proved that with it's big bully attitude thinking it could land the soft punch when the old lady wasn't looking ... until she gave him a crack in the jaws ... pity it wasn't over the head and maybe the bully would have learnt a proper lesson? ... Respect that which isn't yours!
”I believe our work is creating a growing global awareness that understands this occupying attitude on the islands has to end“ said Taccetti......
Jun 10th, 2010 - 01:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nope, not really! I've just spent a pleasant half hour flicking through the world's on-line english laguage press only to find that the OAS hardly gets any mention at all, and that's it's existence not what it discussed.
Try typing “Falkland Islands News” into google .....
Sadly the only British newspaper (The Telegraph) to report the Declaration didn't get it's facts right as the USA abstained from the whole discussion!
Politics eh! Don't ya love it :-)
”I believe our work is creating a growing global awareness that understands this occupying attitude on the islands has to end“ said Taccetti......
Jun 10th, 2010 - 01:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Quite correct the world shouldn't be occupying it's mind on Argentina's childish tantrum's.
I can imagine that for HIV and Poverty and conflict victims worldwide Argentina's claim is occupying their agenda?
Just had a look at the actual wording of the OAS Declaration. I suspect the only important bits are -
Jun 10th, 2010 - 05:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0” ...RECALLING its resolution AG/RES. 928 (XVIII-O/88), adopted by consensus on November 19, 1988, in which it requested the Governments of the Argentine Republic and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to resume negotiations in order to find, as soon as possible, a peaceful solution to the sovereignty dispute;...................
REAFFIRMS the need for the Governments of the Argentine Republic and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to resume, as soon as possible, negotiations on the sovereignty dispute, in order to find a peaceful solution to this protracted controversy......
DECIDES to continue to examine the Question of the Malvinas Islands at its subsequent sessions until a definitive settlement has been reached thereon.....”
In other words, restating the smae thing since 1988 ! A new world concensus eh! Quite an old concensus really .... and an ineffective one !!
It should not be expected that Argentina will ever do more than reiterate its tired old arguments and half-truths, possibly with the occasional addition to cover the events of the last few months.
Jun 10th, 2010 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps what should be concerning the United Nations is the fact that the OAS has no less than 12 members on the Special Committee on Decolonisation. This may go some way to explaining Britain's lack of response to the draft Resolutions of the Special Committee in the cases of both the Falkland Islands and Gibraltar. The Special Committee is, in essence, a “loaded deck”. What is most likely is that the more aggressive members of the OAS who also have members on the Special Committee, such as Cuba and Venezuela, are using behind-the-scenes coercion on moderate members of the Special Committee. The influence of the OAS can clearly be seen in the press release http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2009/gacol3196.doc.htm where the draft resolution was supported by Paraguay,Chile, Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia, Ecuador and Grenada. Paraguay also managed to introduce the views of MERCOSUR, thus giving an extra voice to Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay.
Before OAS members make definitive statements, they should disqualify themselves from the Special Committee. But then it would be unlikely for there to be more draft resolutions in favour of Argentina.
The reality is that the islands belong historically and geographically to Argentina and South America continent, not England nor Europe in the Northern Hemisphere. Is amzing how the English try to hold an old colony in the 21 St century!. Your own governorAlan Edden Huckle is a British colonial administrator. He was the commissioner of the British Indian Ocean Territory and the British Antarctic Territory from 2001 until 2004, when he left to become the governor of Anguilla in the Caribbean.
Jun 10th, 2010 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only thing they care is to fill the broken pockets of London politicians.
On top of all that they are going to turn the South Atlantic ocean into a disaster like British Petroleum is doing in the US Golf of Mexico region.
I vote against the colonial system. In the United Nations it is spoken of “territories wildly own”, when one speaks of colonialism, but the Art. 73 of the Letter of the United Nations (UN - 1946) he/she says that they are territories whose inhabitants have not reached totally to be governed themselves. He/she is also defined it as the domain that exercises a town on other, of an ethnic Nation on other, or of a power hegemónico on a group of collectives to those that it subordinates in their own benefit.
Jun 10th, 2010 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is soon after these concepts that in 1961 the Committee of Descolonización is believed in the breast of the UN. According to this organism they are three powers (I Reign United, United States and France) those that control the 16 pierce colonial registered in the world. However, we find that the three countries settlers are permanent members of the Council of Security of the UN and they are reserved the veto right for any topic that affects them.
It becomes very difficult to think that from that organism he/she will be a solution in time and it forms.
Marco and Raul.
Jun 10th, 2010 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We're not going through it all again because you can't be bothered to explore the site and note all the arguments already presented, from both sides.
The bottom line is that the pair of you are nationalist juveniles. Impossible to have an adult discussion with either of you. Go back to your comic books.
agentoo60
Jun 10th, 2010 - 10:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am sorry that the truth hurt your colonial feelings
Not offended, bored, very bored by the same tired rhetoric, hubris and utter hypocrisy.
Jun 10th, 2010 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You sit in a nation, formed by Spanish colonists, on land ripped from its native inhabitants, that you have expanded with genocidal conquest of native lands and still continue to persecute the aboriginal people of your country.
You seek to impose an alien culture upon the native population of the Falkland Islands in spite of their clearly expressed wishes that they want nothing to do with Argentina. That is of itself the very essence of colonialism, the only nation with colonial ambitions is Argentina.
The UK has devolved Government upon the Falkland Islands, it is committed to providing full indepdence on request and to respecting the wishes of the Falkland Islanders.
Argentina asserts they have no rights in their own homes, and they have no right to have a say in their own future.
You talk of the decolonisation committee, which is a body supposedly dedicated to helping the people of dependent territories. However, that noble purpose has long since been corrupted by native Governments to pursue illogical irredentist territorial claims and to utterly neglect its original purpose. It is a waste of space.
“ ...The reality is that the islands belong historically and geographically to Argentina and South America continent...”
Jun 10th, 2010 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Part of the continent perhaps, but not historically or geographicall as part of any one State on that continent. The islands belong to the Falkland Islanders ........... and that is the way it should be!
“Part of the continent perhaps” ?? Are the islands next to Argentina in South America or next to London in Europe?
Jun 11th, 2010 - 12:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0The islands are still a colony of the old British Empire, kept that way by brute force not by reality.
The Falkland Islands are further from the coast of Argentina than Paris is from London. Geography is irrelevant. The Falkland Islands are not a British colony. They are a British Overseas Territory and they are only that for as long as the islanders wish it so.
Jun 11th, 2010 - 03:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0They have never belonged to Argentina and on the two occassions that Argentina attempted to take control, 1832 ans 1982, they were, quite rightly, ejected.
Reality is that the UN Charter provides the people of the Falklands with the right to self-determination. Territorial integrity is a spurious argument to muddy the waters as the islands have never been part of Argentina.
The only way forward is true independence .... and a seat at the UN !
Malvinas were part of Argentina in 1833 until English invasion and eviction of local population, like Chago islands only a few decades ago. Malvinas is an old colony of England that is running out of excuses and support of the world community.
Jun 11th, 2010 - 04:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Marco you have a lot of research to do. Argentina 'invaded' the Falkland Islands in October 1832 and were ejected in January 1833 ...... and the local population remained as evidenced in Charles Darwin's diary entry for Febuary 1833.
Jun 11th, 2010 - 06:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you are going to want to argue on here you really are going to have to get your facts right!
Are the islands next to Argentina in South America or next to London in Europe?
Jun 11th, 2010 - 08:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Isla Martín García is an Argentine island off the coast Uruguay
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, of which England is but one nation, is not losing support. South American nations may humour Argentina by mouthing sympathetic platitudes, when in reality most laugh behind your back and refer to the noted arrogance of most Argentines amongst their fellow South Americans.
Jun 11th, 2010 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The islands of St Pierre and Miquelon are French but less than 25 miles off the coast of Canada. What matters is what the people living there wish.
And to continue with misguided talk of the British Empire, when it was dissolved peacefully through granting independence in the '60s makes you look foolish and naive. Unlike most European nations, Britain chose to grant independence and most former colonies choose to retain a close relationship through the British Commonwealth.
The remaining territories of the former British Empire have all been granted autonomy, the UK Government has guaranteed independence on request.
The Falkland Islands remain a British Overseas Territory, purely because that is what the population wish. That is the reality, no matter what hysterical rhetoric you wish to use to justify your racist views.
It is not by force or brutality, that is the Argentine way such as when it chose to murder 30,000 of its own people for holding unpopular political views or to launch its invasion of the Falkland Islands. You were given more than ample chance to settle the issue peacefully but chose to resort to armed aggression.
The actual reality is that Argentina had much to gain, it will not for its own obstinacy and macho pride. As always you talk a good game but performance on the field is wanting.
17 stick up your junta
Jun 11th, 2010 - 02:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You write (more than once!):
”Are the Islands next to Argentina in South America or next to London in Europe?
Isla Martín García is an Argentine island off the coast Uruguay”
1) Please Google “Isla Martin García”.
2) Find a good map and look at it.
3) What do you see......? Right! Two Islands!
4) The northern one (Timoteo Dominguez) belongs to Uruguay
5) The southern (Martin García) to Argentina.
Is this your way to offer us West Falkland while you keep East Falkland?
Or just a “Freudian Slip”?
It's still an Argentine island off the coast of Uruguay...
Jun 11th, 2010 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you pulling my leg?
Jun 11th, 2010 - 04:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just look at Google Earth.
Martin García is a little Island in the delta of the Uruguay River that marks the natural and traditional border between our two countries.
Distance to the nearest Uruguayan coast: 3,5 km.
Distance to the nearest Argentinean cost 3.3 km.
Yep a Argie Island which is nearer to another country than theirs
Jun 11th, 2010 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for the offer think but we will keep both islands they come as a pair
Descolonizando only goes when they despoiled the place totally. Coarse to see how they were the countries of the África that you/they found their independence. The only weapon that we have those colonized they are the principles enunciated by the UN. Won't the time be of taking advantage of the new instances in those that goes being organized the world before this crystallization of the Council of Security to go looking for consents, to enlarge the dialogue, multilateralizarlo, among Latin America, Africa, Asia, Central America, America of the North, Europe and Oceanía? Let us propose and let us agree that in an universal day, in the whole planet, a plebiscite is made on if we want to live with colonialism or not Our weapon is the reason, it doesn't force it.“West”, as they like to call himself to the powers, it proclaims the democracy like the form of civilized life. The vote is the basic tool of the democratic system: we use it to avoid that they plunder what is of our Malvinas.
Jun 11th, 2010 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Isla Martín García is an Argentine island off the Río de la Plata coast of Uruguay. The enclave island is within the boundaries of Uruguayan waters;
Jun 11th, 2010 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The treaties stipulate that the Martín García Island be an Argentine exclave surrounded by Uruguayan waters. In return for recognition of Argentina's sovereignty over the island in question.
The island is actually closer to Argentina.
Jun 11th, 2010 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And the sedimentology of the river puts it closer every year.
3.5 km is more than 3.3 km mate.
Even in Great Britain
How long will the sedimentology take to reach the Falklands?
Jun 11th, 2010 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is worrying that the Argentine posters want to tell us that they are democratic but are not happy for the Islanders to have such democratic rights.
Jun 11th, 2010 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You either have and believe in a democratic system or you don't. The right of self-determination is paramount and this is why Argentina will not refer the matter to the ICJ - they know they have no case and would lose. They also don't want to lose a political football than can be pulled out when in political need!
The legal drilling for hydrocarbons continues and the ships come and go unimpeded. As per usual the Argentine leadership is all words and no action. An embarrasment for the people who voted them in; but that is democracy and they have the right to elect corrupt officials who do nothing for the average Argentine.
Dear chaps,
Jun 11th, 2010 - 05:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Many of you surely never heard about this episode. But it shaped many of the opinion and concepts we have about the British Empire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_invasions_of_the_R%C3%ADo_de_la_Plata
1806 and 1807 and you're still whining about it and you claim we lack perspective. Tell me, how is the period of massive investment by the UK remembered, the investment that promoted Argentina to become the 5th richest nation on the planet. Curious how has Argentina faired since?
Jun 11th, 2010 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The invasions took place with the backgound of the Anglo-Spanish war which Spain funded with South American gold and silver.
Oh and how is it germane to the discussion at hand.
@Justin. Actually, Britain was engaged in the Napoleonic Wars. Specifically, the War of the Fourth Coalition. At the time Spain was a French puppet-state.
Jun 11th, 2010 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 030 Justin Kuntz
Jun 11th, 2010 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say: ”Oh, and how is it germane to the discussion at hand?”
What discussion?
You mean the intellectual inbreeding of asking each other rhetorical questions?
Or, in the best of cases, resorting to witty sayings that proof nothing when encountering unexpected opposition?
“ ... Or, in the best of cases, resorting to witty sayings that proof nothing when encountering unexpected opposition? ....”
Jun 12th, 2010 - 12:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Now be fair ... you're good at that :-)
Only in the worst of cases.
Jun 12th, 2010 - 12:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0No names mentioned.
:-)
1764 :: first French settlements ,
Jun 12th, 2010 - 07:56 am - Link - Report abuse 01766 :: first British settlements and Spain -de jure- acquisition
French colony ,
1767 :: Spanish -de facto-acquisition of French colony under control
of Buenos Aires Colonial Administration ,
1770 :: Spain expel British colony ,
1771 :: Anglo-Spanish peace treaty allows Brits return to colony ,
1774 :: British withdrawal from colony ,
1776 :: Brits leave plaque to assert claim on abondoned colony ,
1811 :: Spanish withdraw from colony ,
1816 :: United Province of South America declare from Spain off,
1820 :: Flag of River Plate Argentina raised on islands ,
1828 :: Argentine settlements colony founded ,
1831 :: US warship destroy settlements ,
1832 :: Argentina sends another Governor who is killed in mutiny ,
1833 :: British Forces return to grab the Malvinas Islands.
( opportunity on Spanish Empire collapsing)
“You mean the intellectual inbreeding of asking each other rhetorical questions?”
Jun 12th, 2010 - 08:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do you mean like asking Argentines why they feel compelled to lie about the events of 1833 and allege the population was expelled, when there is overwhelming documentary evidence to demonstrate this is false?
We ask the rhetorical, since having demonstrated this to be the case, the lies are simply repeated as if chanting makes them true.
“ ... Or, in the best of cases, resorting to witty sayings that proof nothing when encountering unexpected opposition? ....”
Which is encountered more often that not.
Not quite right Ed, try
Jun 12th, 2010 - 09:37 am - Link - Report abuse 01811 – Spain evacuates the islands due to unrest in its colonies.
1816 – United Provinces of South America declares independence from Spain.
1820 – the Buenos Aries pirate/privateer Colonel David Jewett (American) reaches the islands after an unrewarding expedition to prey on Spanish ships. He finds 50 British and US sealing ships at anchor. Jewett claims to have a commission to ‘take possession’ of the islands for the United Provinces of South America/Rio de la Plata to whom they belong under ‘Natural Law’ . He raises the flag of the United Provinces but fails to inform Buenos Aries. He gives a letter containing the claim to James Weddell.
1821 – Jewett seizes a US ship, the Rampart, in an act of piracy causing a diplomatic incident and is relieved of his command. Jewett’s letter is published in London. Buenos Aries makes no official announcement.
1824 - Luis Vernet organises an expedition to the islands to hunt wild cattle and seals. The expedition fails.
1825 – Britain recognizes Argentina’s independence from Spain. Diplomatic links are formally established.
1826 – (June) Vernet goes to the islands in an attempt to recoup his losses. Vernet approaches the British Consul and requests permission to form a settlement This was granted provided he sent regular reports. The expedition fails.
1828 – Vernet requests (and is given) a grant of land on East Falkland by the Buenos Aries Government. Vernet asks the British for their approval of the land grant which is signed by the Vice Consul on the 30th. Britain protests the grant of land by Buenos Aries.
1829 – The Buenos Aries Government under Juan Lavelle announces the ‘Political and Military Command of the Malvinas’ and gives Vernet the title of ‘civil and military commandant of Puerto Luis’ . The British Consul protests and restates the previous British claim. There is a suggestion that Vernet repudiates his title to the British (?)
1831 – Vernet seizes three US shships accusing them o
1831 – Vernet seizes three US ships accusing them of ‘illegal sealing’. This is regarded by the United States as an act of piracy. The US Consul in Buenos Aries protests and states that the US does not recognize Argentine sovereignty in the Falklands. (December) the USS Lexington arrives in the islands and ‘arrests’ 6 or 7 (?) of Vernet’s crew [the Lexington raid]. The prisoners and some 40 settlers leave with the Americans. Remaining is a settlement of 24 people.
Jun 12th, 2010 - 09:39 am - Link - Report abuse 01832 – (August) The Admiralty in London issue orders for the islands to be visited annually to reinforce British rights and prevent foreign forces establishing themselves on the islands (?). (October) Buenos Aries sends a garrison of 26 soldiers to the Falkland Islands under Major Esteban Mestivier. Britain protests.
1833 – (January) Argentine garrison ejected by British forces from HMS Clio. 22 of Vernet’s settlers remain as British subjects. William Dixon (Arg/Irish) appointed as British Representative. (March) HMS Beagle visits the islands and Charles Darwin records the make-up of the remaining settlers in his diary. Vernet sends 6 more settlers under his deputy, Matthew Brisbane, to join the others residents taking the numbers to 29.
TRy to get the facts right !!
@37 + @38 it is written and making read in the general British History Books just like manipulated gossip detailed stories..
Jun 12th, 2010 - 10:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0by the way these were and are carefully chopped some historical events..
my lingua is very different that it doesn't contain the personal names and
their characters ,just contains systematic formations in principle..
you can't learn the what they are looking for ,Brits and American ( as in
today at Iraq and Afganistan) ships in 1820..from Brits History Sources..
you can't learn why Brits recognized Argentina's Independence in 1825
instead of 1821 ( !??)..from Brits History Sources..
you can't learn the Mutiny and it's details in 1832..from Brits History Sources..
finally ..everbody know and see the opportunist character of Britons..!!
#35 is only one of their evidence ..
primarly try to learn to be honest ..
Justin
Jun 12th, 2010 - 10:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0I should have clarified my remark at #31. Obviously, there was nothing wrong in 1806/7 with British attacks on “possessions” of the Spanish Empire whilst it was a puppet-state of the Napoleonic Empire. There were no further attacks, not because of the “valiant” defence of the settlers, but because, in 1807, Britain began the Peninsular War in Europe and spent until 1814 freeing first Portugal and then Spain from French domination. This ended with the forced abdication of Napoleon and his exile to Elba. His attempt to re-establish his rule was finally ended in June 1815 when he was defeated by the British under the command of the Duke of Wellington at the Battle of Waterloo.
But anyway, the argument or discussion on historical claims is now over for ever. The only principle that now exists is that of self-determination as enshrined in the UN Charter. For so long as the Falkland Islanders wish to remain a British Overseas Territory, that is their freely-expressed democratic right. And for so long as they wish to remain British, they will have British support.
ed ## you say .............
Jun 12th, 2010 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0you can't learn................................from Brits History Sources..
you can't learn................................from Brits History Sources..
you can't learn................................from Brits History Sources..
they can't reply becouse you don't give them opportunity !! ##
@40
Jun 12th, 2010 - 12:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0hear, all ye good people, hear what this brilliant and eloquent speaker has to say!”
Ed - you appear to be an idiot! I have printed the established history .... what you have is ' deficient'.
Jun 12th, 2010 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0arquero - you appear to be an idiot too..............
The Falkland Islands are British , this is right and should cotinue .... NO PROBLEM !
##43## i deplore !! what a fury and outrage !!
Jun 12th, 2010 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Hoytred.
Jun 12th, 2010 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't understand your reference to ed and arquero as “apparent” idiots. If you are equating “apparent” with “obvious” then I agree with you. On the other hand, if you are suggesting that they “appear” to be idiots but there remains some question, I can't go along with that.
You appear to have some understanding of clowns like these so perhaps you could help me with something. At #39, ed says “finally ..everbody know and see the opportunist character of Britons..!!
#35 is only one of their evidence ..”
To me,he appears to be casting doubt on the material in #35. Only thing is, he wrote #35. Am I missing something?
I just find it confusing how a nation can be in the UN and not agree with self determination. How can you sign up for an organization when you fundamentally disagree with one of it's defining points?
Jun 12th, 2010 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Think
Jun 12th, 2010 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Distance to the nearest Uruguayan coast: 3,5 km”
Oh, is that how far away the Uruguay coast on Timoteo Dominguez is from Martin Garcia? Didn't look that far to me on Google earth. Looked more like a few feet!
Like I said. It's still an island off the coast of Uruguay...
@46 zethe
Jun 12th, 2010 - 09:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You need to be South American.
Argentine representative probably crossed his fingers when he signed.
AGENTOO60.
Jun 13th, 2010 - 12:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have to apologize to you for the comment that i left for you in the articule of full support of the o.a.s to argentina, anyway my posture about the conflict is the same, but i recognize that my words were ofensive, so, i apologize.
Agent0060 -
Jun 13th, 2010 - 12:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ed appears to think that including detail (ie. sources) within the debate somehow diminishes its authenticity ...... I suspect you are right about the idiocy, it's a fault of mine to believe that even in the dimmest there is a little hope of education ......
Ed - once again let me say that it appears to be the Argentine version of history that is deficient in detail and until those that wish to debate it here are able to supply proper references and sources their argument remains unconvincing.
Dear chaps,
Jun 13th, 2010 - 07:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sometime ago I posted the following:
“Many of you surely never heard about this episode. But it shaped many of the opinions and concepts we Argies have about the British Empire.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_invasions_of_the_R%C3%ADo_de_la_Plata
Someone rebuffed me saying that Britain had the right to do it because the ??? “Spanish-Anglo” War (surely he meant the Napoleonic Wars) ??? was being financed by the “gold and silver mines of South-America” (wrong address and wrong century chap, no mines in the River Plate area and almost all mines in S-A where depleted by the18th century)
What would be the excuse for this one?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_invasions_of_the_R%C3%ADo_de_la_Plata
Ah, now here I am unable to comment as I have no knowledge of the skirmishes that you are refering to Think ... but we British have shaped many opinions .... often bad, but then again sometimes good enough that people just don't want to leave us :-)
Jun 13th, 2010 - 08:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Dear Hoyt
Jun 13th, 2010 - 08:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0I utterly understand you.
You have more important things to do than read about ”forgotten petit skirmishes” fought far away.
We all have to work hard to make money to follow Beef’s financial advice and get rich!
##agent...00006666
Jun 13th, 2010 - 09:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0i woul ask a question to you from British Football History ..
===when the Leed United funs came to İstanbul..? and
how many hooligans turned home by their coffins ? ===
54 Arquero
Jun 13th, 2010 - 09:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Turquito loco!
Te equivocaste de lugar!
Acá no estámo hablando de Fulbo choma!
Por que no te vas un poquito a la “cancha” de tu “Ferrocarril Oeste”?
“Excuse my english” Admin, just trying to redirec a “lost soul” .
Think ##
Jun 13th, 2010 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0and few years after many Liverpool funs came to İstanbul to match
Milan--Liverpool UEFA Champions Final ..
Rules were simple ... forbidden drinking...forbidden night clubs...
forbidden every restaurants....etc..for Brits funs .
there had no problem .
Thanks the Lord!
Jun 13th, 2010 - 10:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0“54-56 Arquero” does not understand any Spanish.
That reduces drastically the odds of him being an Argie.
He must be an “agent provocateur” send by agent0060 or something :-)
Think ##
Jun 13th, 2010 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0certainly we Turks agree Jorge's slogan that ,
las Malvinas fueron,son y seran Argentinas !
in Turkish has no * accented -a-* means that no need to prolong it .
******************************************
you saw our character at UN recent voting on İran ?
Turquia + Brasil = other UN security members
Beef says: ”I am waiting for the paper from Brazil or Chile that indicates their business plan to refine the oil that originates from the Islands. Argentina will hopefully decide to collaborate but there will be others waiting in the wings”
Jun 13th, 2010 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let me check the map.... If Chile and Brazil decided not to ”collaborate” who’s left?
Oh yes!
Uruguay, of course.
Obvious choice.
Their ”capitalistic” president could surely use the money to buy a new car!
http://en.mercopress.com/2010/06/05/uruguayan-president-mujica-only-asset-is-a-1987-vw-beatle
(Uuups... and for all of you that have been so kind in correcting our spelling; please note the gaff in the link above. Wonder if it is John, Paul, George or Ringo the Uruguayan president is riding?)
Think
Jun 13th, 2010 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have no predjudice at all. I care not of the nationality with those with whom I work. I teach students from all over the world of every creed and colour. This is more than I can say for some of the posts on this forum.
If the Argentine leadership decide to put up obstacles that will prevent well meaning collaboration on a hydrocarbon industry with the Falkland Islands then other South American nations will benefit from the tax reveunes generated.
Argentina is powerless to stop oil exploration and eventual production. It's leadership know this, the market knows this and the big oil companies watching the exploraton with interest know this.
At some time in the near future (5yrs or there abouts) an Argentine government (who ever is in charge then) will have a descision to make. Sealion has a 24o million barrel initial estimate (with significant upside potential). As more prospects are proved up and more finds are made then Argentina could have the chance to refine oil from multi billion barrel basins.
Only an idiot would turn this opportunity down. Would you?
Getting rich together always makes sense, think about it!
Hoytred, thanks for guiding me to this very agreeable lawyer!
Jun 13th, 2010 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Investors: Read Carefully
http://www.thelawyer.com/opinion-the-future-of-the-falklands-could-it-be-compromise?/1003785.article
Just my words, ....... just “lawyerly” formulated.
Argentina was given the chance but threw the teddy in the corner
Jun 13th, 2010 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-445174/Argentina-terminates-Falklands-oil-agreement-UK.html
And dont even go down the blockade route,wouldnt want another war now would we
To be honest, if I was a Falkland Islander, I would have great reservations about entering into any agreements with Argentina for a considerable time. Forty or fifty years would be about right.
Jun 13th, 2010 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let us consider, Argentina has maintained its sovereignty over the Falkland Islands for around 200 years. Even getting beaten in a war it started didn't persuade it to quit.
Perhaps forty or fifty years is too short. In the event that the Islanders are fortunate enough to be sitting on massive oil reserves, the LAST country they should allow to have any benefit is Argentina. Followed by the rest of the South American continent. Give 'em NOTHING!!
62Sticky
Jun 13th, 2010 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Economical blockade in the sense that just 4 countries Chile, Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil could politely ask the private Oil and Fishing Companies to keep away from our port installations.
Child's play.
Make peace not war brother
A blockade is an effort to cut off food, supplies, war material or communications from a particular area by force, either in part or totally. A blockade should not be confused with an embargo or sanctions, which are legal barriers to trade
Jun 13th, 2010 - 08:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ouchhh....
Jun 13th, 2010 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One little misused world and we nearly started FWII !!!
My fault entirely!
Of course I meant “Legal barriers to trade”
Thanks good you are awake.
Why would Chile,Brazil and Uruguay want to forgoe oil wealth to stand by their GREAT MATE
Jun 13th, 2010 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't you read my post!!! What class of fan are you :-(
Jun 13th, 2010 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0About the futility of Argentinean regional diplomatic efforts:
One scenario: Chile, Uruguay and Brazil declare an embargo against any “Falklands related economical activity”.
Not so impossible now where Britain’s best friend and defender of democracy, Mr. Augusto Pinochet is no more, an old leftwing “terrorist” is President of Uruguay and the clear position of Brazil about the Falklands Issue are taken in consideration.
Investors and the “Free Marketeers” would have to recalculate their profit margins.
I am not putting my money in South Atlantic oil shares. Are you?
You havent answered my question why would they help Argentina if it lost them Money.
Jun 13th, 2010 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 069 Sticky
Jun 13th, 2010 - 09:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The idea is letting Brazil, Chile and Uruguay participate in the South Atlantic oil business under much better terms and conditions than you ever could offer them.
We can present American, French, Mexican, Chinese or even freaking Iranian much better economical conditions than you.
We have ample room to manoeuvre, mate.
The alternative you have left us, is getting sucked dry by Great Britain.
Do you get the idea?
Think, somehoe dont quite see Chile sucking up to Lady K. Chile has had semsible government economic policies for years(which is why their peso goes up and Arg peso goes down),Southern Chile has quite a few millions of dollars of trade and cash income from the Islands,Their excellent airline carries several thousand people all over the world to and from the islands as well. As for Uruguay - well they have been on our side quietly for decades and Montevideo is an international free port.
Jun 13th, 2010 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ok we all know Arg Govts interfere in trade,business etc and generally screw business up - thats why Montevideo is a freeport and major international freight hub - and B.A .IS NOT.
Oil refineries - why do they have to be in S America? good place for them to be for S America,s benefit I agree, but they can just as easily be in USA or Europe.
Think, The Brazileños, Chilenos and Uruguayos support an Argentine embargo? Like hell! They are more than likely to go where the money is. As it is, they all make nice noises in support of Argentina in toothless fora like the OAS but at the same time are more than happy to play host to British military kit which then proceeds to patrol those waters which apparently belong to Argentina...
Jun 13th, 2010 - 10:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2010/05/18/hms-portland-on-south-atlantic-patrol-after-successful-visit-in-brazil
Islander
Jun 13th, 2010 - 11:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The new political and economical realities between Chile, Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil are self-evident for us.
It makes perfect geopolitical and economical sense to work together.
We have had our maturing process and we learned the hard way, as anybody else in the world.
You choose to laugh at us, sub estimate and ignore us... It’s your prerogative.
The 28 years status quo period where nothing happened has been broken by this unfortunate “Oil Boom”
As I wrote before, we are able and prepared to offer our 3 neighbours and international oil companies much better conditions and profits than GB or the FIG ever could.
You don't give us any other alternative.
Think -
Jun 13th, 2010 - 11:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0NEVER trust lawyers, in court there are always at least 2 and they always hold opposing opinions! And you'll know of course that our Common Law system is an extension of 'trial by combat' ?
'Political realities' - now there's a tidal region :-)
“It makes ... sense” - hmmm, unlikely then.
“better conditions and profits” - well, I suppose that depends on how much oil the FIG have!
I suspect the Chile and Argentina make uncomfortable bedfellows. Chile already suspects Argentina of stiring up old border disputes with its neighbours and is unhappy with Argentina over its claims over all that frozen water! Maybe you can hold a coalition together, maybe.
Politics, old son - just politics.
Don't call me old son, junior :-)
Jun 13th, 2010 - 11:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps... perhaps... perhaps
Sun shining in the tropics?
I like 'junior', I just wish it was so :-)
Jun 13th, 2010 - 11:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Good morning, and the sun ..... sadly no. It's chucking it down!
Is it me losing my marbles or this Domingo Fellow was a little strange?
Jun 14th, 2010 - 12:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Think-73- Since when has this become reality? Plenty of political words at the appropriate times I agree - thats always been the case- but I have never really seen any trust and business happen. Today Brazil is fed up with Arg over imprt delay fiddles on Brazilian goods into Argentina. The nutters and squatters till block the bridge to Uruguay - some respect Arg shows to an Int Court Ruling! And if many in Arg think that Chile will quickly forget the chaos and misery caused by the Ks turning off the gas despite signed treaties between the 2 countries - Arg must be in fantasy land! Look at the international ratings for safe business investment potential - you will see Chile,Brasil and Uruguay somewhat higher up the ladder than Argentina.
Jun 14th, 2010 - 03:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0A couple of years ago a British Embassy official from B.A.visited us - he told of a friend of his - in the Chilean Embassy who admired the Brits and said they were “so lucky to only have ONE problem with Aregentina-we have a book full of them”
Oil Boom? - its just on paper yet - along way from reality if ever. Maybe it wont proove economic to exploit - so what - our economy does not need it to survive anyway. It would be nice - but not essential.
And certainly the Islands have not been in “status quo” for 28 years - population up 60%, GDP way way up, Internal SelfGovernment -no more old colonial rule, etc etc.
And tomorrow-the 14th- Liberation Day - we remember those who gave their lives for us and celebrate where we are today.
78, Islander
Jun 14th, 2010 - 06:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your line of reasoning, does not argue about the effectiveness or feasibility of the new Argentinean strategy but about the lesser quality of the people that might implement it.
Here you keep in line with a long established British school of thinking.
This reinforces my conviction that our chosen strategy of ever increasing diplomatic and economical pressures is the correct one to follow.
All the actors (oil and mining companies, fishing fleets, allies and rivals) will “make their numbers” and take their own decisions.
You mention the petty skirmishes between our countries today.
Rumours about “unfair import rulings” against Brazilian products, a privately induced gas supply cut 5 years ago against Chile and a bridge to Uruguay blocked by a confrontational group of activists.
Dear fellow, this is indeed “Fantasy Land” for us compared with 28 years ago.
Thanks for reminding all of them.
“new Argentinean strategy”? What? Are you having a laugh Think. There is nothing new about the current Argentine strategy.
Jun 14th, 2010 - 07:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0It boils down to: Las Malvinas son Argentinas and if you don't give them to us we will implement an embargo, oh and by the way the whole world is on our side.
Meanwhile, in the real world...
80 J.A.
Jun 14th, 2010 - 07:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Foreseeable and repetitive response from you, old chap
I can see some improvement though
Your spelling of “Las Malvinas son Argentinas “ is impeccable.
My 5 years in the Argentine public school system didn't count for nothing then...
Jun 14th, 2010 - 07:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0:-)
Jun 14th, 2010 - 08:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mr. Roberts makes a valid point, the Kirchners may shout a little louder but the strategy remains much the same. To check this go back through the records of the C-24, OAS, etc and you'll see Argentina making the same claims, and those organisations producing the same demands for negotiations. Then look at the British press and check out how often Argentina/Falklands gets a mention ....... I suspect we'll all still be saying the same things in another 28 years!
Jun 14th, 2010 - 08:46 am - Link - Report abuse 084, Hoyt
Jun 14th, 2010 - 08:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Things change...
In 1945 Britain was bombing Germany (deservedly so) back to the Stone Age with phosphor, delay fuse bombs and other niceties.
In 1973, 28 years later, Britain joined into an Economic and Political Union with Germany.
Things change...
You are under-bowed and you know it!
Unbowed perhaps :-)
Jun 14th, 2010 - 09:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, a Medieval English Un-bow ☺
Jun 14th, 2010 - 09:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0since @ 80 that all comments' timings are , in GMT time ;
Jun 14th, 2010 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0@80 : 07.37 , @81 : 07.46 , @82 : 07.56 , @83 : 08.03
@84 : 08.46 , @85 : 08.58 , @86 : 09.46 , @ 87 : 09.15.
GMT time !
very interesting !!!!!!!!!!!!
Hoyt
Jun 14th, 2010 - 10:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0You say: “This sort of disaster spreads the crap everywhere”
I say: “This time this sort of disaster hits the big “Crapers”.
The response was standard.
Use a lot of money in spin and public relations.
Reality doesn’t matter if not published in the mainstream media.
Well, this time the crap hit the fan.
It's not that interesting ... for example the time shown on my last post is just wrong!
Jun 14th, 2010 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0North Americans had once a “Boston Tea Party”.
Jun 14th, 2010 - 10:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0The next one is apparently being hold off the Gulf of Mexico.
It’s time for us, South Americans, to organize a “Mate Party”
Everybody is invited except agent0060
He is like this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ItOId-Y54g&feature=fvw
He wants to kill us all!
I feel sorry for “Think”. He can't read (#87 and #88), he can't count (note his repeated references to the wrong numbers on comments, here and elsewhere) and he is short on intelligence (rarely stays on topic). In other words, a typical student.
Jun 14th, 2010 - 11:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0I won't comment to him because he was so rude as not to respond when he encountered arguments/facts that he found impossible to counter and then became offensive.
And now he has the effrontery to ascribe someone else's remarks to me. I don't think all Argentines/South Americans should be killed. They'd make good peasants. An occupation consistent with their intelligence.
As Buddha said: Find your own Light!
Jun 14th, 2010 - 11:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting comment by an agent0060!
http://story.irishsun.com/index.php/ct/9/cid/3a8a80d6f705f8cc/id/622599/cs/1/
times of all comments are true written by GMT time .
Jun 14th, 2010 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0very very interesting !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Must be agent 0060 using its “Time Warp Machine” to enslave all inferior races:-)
Jun 14th, 2010 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Think,79, Hasn,t worked so far on Spanish Fishing Companies has it? Indeed several are now starting to pull out entirely from- where? - not here! Hasn,t stopped an Aussies mining firm, big in Chile, investing in offshore oil potential here either.Chile Presidents energy spopkesman a few months ago saidmore or less it would be up to Chilean Oil companies what they did, if opportunities to invest offshore here came their way.
Jun 14th, 2010 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No sign yet of all this solid solidarity? What has Arg policy achieved in the last 7 years over the Islands? - ZERO - other than successfully returning the majority of people who live here to the mindset we had of Arg in 1982!
Just in K. You state....'The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, of which England is but one nation'
Jun 14th, 2010 - 07:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As far as I remember, the UK of GB comprises Scotland, Wales Northern Ireland and England, under one single Monarch (A Queen now) with one common currency, &c, as if these four were parts that conform one country.
Then why is it that they come to play with as so many football, rugby, etc teams as there are 'parts' of this Great Fleeting Britain?
Isn't this cheating? No?
Why not?
Why is it then that the US of America do not present 50 teams, one for each of her states? Where's the snag?
Is it the same they use to keep colonies under a fake 'freedom umbrella'?
God bless you!
Hope this helps Argie
Jun 14th, 2010 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_national_football_team
(96) Dear Islander
Jun 14th, 2010 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) You say: “No sign yet of all this solid solidarity?
Nobody here is seeking ”solidarity”. We are working towards regional economical and social integration.
If interested you could read the “Tratado de Maipu de Integración y Cooperación signed by Chile and Argentina in October 2009”
Sorry no English translation. None needed.
2) You say: “What has Arg. policy achieved in the last 7 years over the Islands? - ZERO - other than successfully returning the majority of people who live here to the mindset we had of Arg. in 1982”
Permit me to recycle your question: What has British condescending policy achieved in the last many months over Argentina. - ZERO - other than successfully galvanizing the awareness of our neighbours about Britain’s ways and intentions about the South Atlantic Seabed and Antarctica.
Remember that Chile and Brazil hold Antarctic claims that are totally overlapped by the British claim.
“and intentions about the South Atlantic Seabed and Antarctica.”
Jun 14th, 2010 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unlike Argentina, Britain has presented no claim to an Antarctic seabed extension (though it does reserve the right to do so in the future)
Argie,
Jun 14th, 2010 - 10:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0THe United Kingdom as called - is made up of 4 parts - 4 countries each with devolved national government but united as one under the Parliament and the crown in London. Difficult to explain to those from countries with written constitutions and presidents, the british one is mostly unwritten and developed over many centuries of traditions and changes - but it is democratic and works! At the Olympics for example it is team GB - at Football and the Commonwealth Games - Eng- Scotland-Wales-N,Ireland - sounds crazy but it works!
Don,t know about Colonies and Fake Freedom umbrellas? Maybe a few very small places that still depend on UK for direct budget support still have much control from London - but I can assure you the Islands have developed beyond that state since 1982. UK has NO direct control in how we run things internally here - we even run the offshore oil exploration ourselves - it is NOT run by Britain as your Govt tries to preach.
Think - I agree Many countries have overlapping claims in Antarctica- galvanising awareness? - come on - the UN had formally invited ALL Countries of the world to register their offshore claims outside the formal agreed 200mile limits. It was just that UK was the first to actually register its claims over Antarctica to the UN Committee - are you going to believe that if UK had not - then neither would Arg or Chile!!! All countries would have been silly not to have done so. Hopefully though the outcome will be that as it is disputed the UN will not rule a decision and the Antactic Treaty will continue. I would hate to see Antarctica ever developed-correction-enviromentally destroyed- by the western world- UK/Arg or whoever!
There have been loads of “treaties” signed by Arg with their neighbours over the years - to what effect? Not much when it comes down to reality.
Islander
Jun 14th, 2010 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here we go again and again and....
If I referred to any of the treaties in the Nafta, European Union, or Commonwealth in the same disdainfull words you use about ours, you would, deservedly, consider me a moron.
What do you expect me to think?
No, it's not cheating Argie. We invented Rugby and Football and the British “nations” arose out that process. If you don't like it then don't join FIFA or the IRB. It's as simple as that.
Jun 14th, 2010 - 11:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ ...What has British condescending policy achieved in the last many months over Argentina ...”
Jun 14th, 2010 - 11:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is a brick wall condescending?? Argentina's demands are being dismissed out of hand. As to what has been achieved - well a brick wall acts as an effective block, and that it has been. No?
It is kind of annoying that every-time Germany rightly claims the UEFA European Football Championship, they have to go through the hassle of expediting all those small BritBanana Republics first.
Jun 14th, 2010 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Total loss of perfectly good Teutonic Time.
I guess you would know banana republic Think. From personal experience no doubt...
Jun 14th, 2010 - 11:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Turnip Kingdoms then?
Jun 14th, 2010 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's Scotland...
Jun 15th, 2010 - 08:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0You...... Sasunnach!
Jun 15th, 2010 - 09:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think you mean Sassanach. And no, I'm not one of them. It is possible to be British without being Saxon.
Jun 15th, 2010 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You certainly sound like one.
Jun 15th, 2010 - 02:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Always speaking about things you know little about!
Sasunnach can be spelled in many ways.
In Uig we fancy Sasunnach
And you think sound a right wee jobby
Jun 15th, 2010 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Left wee jobby to you :-)
Jun 15th, 2010 - 08:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0MAlvinas Argentinas!!! End of story!!!
Jun 15th, 2010 - 09:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If it makes you feel better jorge end of bed time story
Jun 15th, 2010 - 09:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0sleep tight my little neo nazi
(115) Sticky
Jun 15th, 2010 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You do not sound like a leftist liberal yourself!
I think jorge ;-) a
Jun 15th, 2010 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0me, nazi??? You are smoking poor quality weed!!!
Jun 15th, 2010 - 11:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Seems to be that Glenn can’t get his “old rig” repaired in Brazil.
Jun 16th, 2010 - 05:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0If the Falklands and BP where cars:
In the case of the Islands they fervently explain:
Is a British Wauxhall not an Opel !
In the case of BP they vehemently declare:
It’s an Opel not a British Wauxhall !
Same car under the Bonnet.
Now this is a good example of what the British brick wall can do to those who think they think!
Jun 16th, 2010 - 06:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0As you already know:
Jun 16th, 2010 - 06:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Only an Englishman can defeat a brick wall in a game of Tennis.
We, mere mortals, have to tear it down. (or walk around it)
.... or stop?
Jun 16th, 2010 - 06:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Of course, .....when arrived.
Jun 16th, 2010 - 06:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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